Pricey public education - paying extra for K???

[AuntieM]

So, in taking in the full realm of possibilities for the educational options for our youngest child, I called the nearby neighborhood school to find out about kindergarten.

 

I have never had a child in public school, but on this board I have seen the many rants about the cost of school supplies, etc.

 

I never realized that public school education itself could cost money.

 

Most of the kids here (+75%) go to full-day K, but there is a lesser taken option of half-day K. In fact, that is what is "standard." (I say that if three quarters of the student body goes full day K, THAT'S the new normal.... anyway...) So, if you want full day K, you have to pay $15 extra per day. For 174 school days. That's a nice total of about $2100+ just for the extra tuition, add all the regular supply and enrollment fees to that.

 

FWIW, this is *not* after-school care. The day is structured differently to incorporate curriculum across the full day. I am pretty sure if you want your kid to stay on until 5pm, that can also be arranged... for another price, of course.

 

DH is in total shock. I am pretty surprised myself. Is this common in other areas?

[cathmom]

The district I grew up in still has half day K. If you want the whole day, you pay for it, and your child is bused to a different school for the afternoon. Not quite the same thing as you said though.

[kathkath]

never heard of that!

[myfunnybunch]

Wow. It's not common here, but most schools in our district only offer 1/2 day kindergarten.

 

My guess is that parents were asking for a full-day kindergarten program (this issue seems to cycle around our district periodically) for which the school district does not have funding, so the school district created a full-day option provided the parents fund the additional time.

 

Seems reasonable to me, for the most part. My only concern would be that the children whose families don't have the resources to pay for the additional time could potentially end up already behind in first grade.

 

Cat

[JulieJ]

I think the same is done here in Indiana although my dc didn't do K here. Infact K is not required in the state of Indiana.

 

Also here in Indiana they have what is called "book rent" for all grades. Yes, you are required to pay for the books your child will use for the year and no you do not get to keep them. For my 8th grader the fee was around 300 dollars give or take a few. It all depends on what classes they sign up for.

I never heard of it before moving to Indiana. Back in Michigan, where we are originally from there were no fews for any grade.

[BikeBookBread]

I just saw a news story this last week that one nearby district was going to start charging for full-day K (8 am - 3 pm), while still offering half-day (8 am - 11 am) for free. The charge for those additional 4 hours? $4000 a year or $420 a month!!!

 

The additional session is called "Kinder Plus". They claim that the afternoon session is not daycare, but "extended learning".

[FairProspects]

Very common here. Our school district charged $250-300 per month for full-day K until this year when due to budget cuts they couldn't afford to keep the program running even with the tuition. Half day is still free.

[Cortana]

Our state just started implementing full day kindergarten. They started it in the schools in the poorest neighborhoods in each district first and are supposed to be expanding it to all schools eventually. Our school district is flat broke and I have no idea how they will be paying for it, but at this point there's been no talk of parents paying money out of pocket for it. Wouldn't suprise me if this is something they eventually start doing, though.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I think the same is done here in Indiana although my dc didn't do K here. Infact K is not required in the state of Indiana.

 

Also here in Indiana they have what is called "book rent" for all grades. Yes, you are required to pay for the books your child will use for the year and no you do not get to keep them. For my 8th grader the fee was around 300 dollars give or take a few. It all depends on what classes they sign up for.

I never heard of it before moving to Indiana. Back in Michigan, where we are originally from there were no fews for any grade.

 

Yup, I'm also in IN. My dd attends 1/2 day K for the modest sum of a $60 book fee. Those choosing full day pay an additional $2,000 (aprox). mind you, all the "education" goes on in the morning. but I have heard comments that full day K is cheaper than daycare. Out of almost 50 K students, only 7 are half-dayers.

 

The reason for the additional cost for full day K is that legislation was passed requiring school districts to offer full day K, but with no additional funding attached to the legislation. I attended many public and invitation-only meetings with representatives when this was being proposed. Every meeting was filled with teachers and school district reps (principals, superintendents, etc.). the overwhelming majority spoke FOR the legislation. Nobody wanted to think about how to pay for it. Any time funding was brought up, it was dismissed. Then, about 3 years later when the legislation passed, school districts were crying about no funds and some parents were complaining about having to pay for "free public education".

[LibraryLover]

I'm glad half day K is even an option some places.

[Tap]

Common here. While they say it is not for day-care purposes, that is exactly what it is. It keeps the kids who normally would go to daycare and kindergarten, in one school, all day. These same schools often have after school care also.

 

Private schools have offered this option for years, it is just now spreading to public schools in the past 5 years or so.

 

The parents I have talked to about it like the idea of 'full day kindergarten' better than the thought of their kids in just a play-based daycare.

 

When dd11 was 4yo, she was in Pre-K at the local private school. I figured if she was going to be in daycare while I worked, she may as well be doing something other than just Legos while there. She liked it better than daycare and it cost me the same, so it worked better for us.

[Caroline]

Just so you have comparison numbers, kindergarten at a small Christian school is $750 per month plus $300 in supplies at the start of the year. Kindergarten at the more expensive private school is $20,000 per year tuition plus fees and supplies. There are also numbers in between.

 

I think asking parents to pay for full time kindergarten is reasonable, and the figures mentioned in this thread are not expensive at all. I wonder if there are programs to help pay for families who cannot afford the tuition, like free/reduced lunch and head start.

 

Afterschool care here, run by the schools, is $7 per day. You only pay on days you use it.

[LibraryLover]

The private school near me hanrges nearly 20k/yr as well. It is 8 to 2. After care is extra. Private schools (non- religious ones, with the exception of Quaker schools) nearby in Providence RI and Boston, already charge 20k and up for K. I think the Jewish Day school is around 16k for K. The Catholic and Christian schools are less costly, but still pricey.

 

Just so you have comparison numbers, kindergarten at a small Christian school is $750 per month plus $300 in supplies at the start of the year. Kindergarten at the more expensive private school is $20,000 per year tuition plus fees and supplies. There are also numbers in between.

 

I think asking parents to pay for full time kindergarten is reasonable, and the figures mentioned in this thread are not expensive at all. I wonder if there are programs to help pay for families who cannot afford the tuition, like free/reduced lunch and head start.

 

Afterschool care here, run by the schools, is $7 per day. You only pay on days you use it.

[Pippen]

Our district has full day K, but they also have a half day option that they don't publicize widely or encourage. It started the year before my youngest entered and only one student took the 1/2 day option and my daughter was the only one that next year in our elementary. I don't think there have been any half day students there since.

 

Since there is such a push to keep the kids the full day, the cost difference is minimal ($50 vs. $85).

 

In our case I don't think it was parents pushing for full day K, it was the district due to increasing demands of testing.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I'm in Indiana, and somehow I did not know this information.

 

In my blue-collar Indianapolis township unemployment is a serious problem. What is going to happen when parents can't afford to pay for public school?

 

I have lived here for many years. IMVHO, as the poverty rises people will not homeschool. They will just not send their kids to school. I base that opinion on the fact that our dropout rate is already extremely high and our test scores are low...NCLB is a problem, but the teachers do not have the support of the parents, either.

 

Even if they decided to homeschool, they couldn't do it cheaply. Our library is closing because of the economy.

[Mabelen]

In our district we have free full day kindergarten.

[Excelsior! Academy]

When we first heard of full day K I inquired. I was told at our school, because it had both 1/2 day and would add a full day program the full day wasn't allowed to teach more. It would cause the 1/2 day students to fall behind. I don't believe there was a charge for either, though.

 

I was in PTA, though. We paid for everything. We even paid for new playground equipment that didn't even end up being used.:glare: We bought overheads for all of the teachers, balls for phys. ed, etc. It. was. ridiculous.

 

Not to mention the supply fees at the beginning of the year. Every year we bought NEW scissors, glue, crayons, folders, etc. These were shared by the class, and we may or may not get them back at the end of the year.

 

Rant over!!:D

[K&Rs Mom]

In our district we have free full day kindergarten.

 

Same here (well, not free, but fully paid by property taxes like all the other grades, no extra charge for parents).

[elegantlion]

Ds was in private school for all day K, they had 1/2 day option too. The cost difference was no where near $2100/year. Of course it's been a few years since he was there.

 

I just checked their website and it looks like they only have one K now and it's only $3,040 /year + $240/yr in book fees. Almost a bargain. :tongue_smilie:

[AngieC]

My district has half day, but you can pay extra for full day. On the one hand, it seems fair to me, but I do think that the kids in full day probably come out of their kindergarten with better reading and writing skills because there is more time during the day to dedicate to those activities.

[Crissy]

My school district charges $3300 for full-day kindergarten this year. I understand that fee will go up next year.

I believe my sister paid about $300 per month a few years ago for her daughter to attend all-day.

[Pixie]

My daughter went to full-day K with no fees. that is all our district offered. (This was in South Dakota).

[cougarmom4]

I see nothing wrong with a district charging for full-day. If the funding for the program doesn't come from the state, they need to get it somewhere. And in many cases, the parents who WANT the full day ARE wanting it for daycare.

 

Our state doesn't mandate full-day, so various districts/schools still have options. There was a huge uproar around here when they wanted to change from half to full day--parents were freaking out not wanting their kindergartners gone all day. On the other hand, several districts are using it as more of an opportunity to help those students who aren't coming from a literacy-rich environment--helping them to get up to level or even ahead...and there are accommodations made for free/reduced lunch students (as in fees reduced).

[ondreeuh]

It's the same way here. Basically the parents are paying the teacher's salary for the extra hours. The academic content was the same but the full-day K had more enrichment & extras.

 

We did it because I thought a half-day K was just going to be way too rushed and too many transitions (I was working FT at the time so I would have needed a different plan for afternoons otherwise). At least it was better quality than daycare. The K teacher had them creating plays that were a lot of fun.

[Mabelen]

Same here (well, not free, but fully paid by property taxes like all the other grades, no extra charge for parents).

 

Well, sure! Nothing is truly free, we know that.

[Mandamom]

We have mandatory full-day K here so it doesn't cost parents out of pocket so send their kids. We also have to fill out our forms with the county for K if we choose to homeschool.

[mammaruss]

The ps district in our area has all day kindergarten and the school does not charge extra for it. I believe the school was able to get extra funding for it....there are 2 other school districs 15min - 1/2 hour away and neither of these schools offer all day kindergarten. Our school district is attempting to pull in children from other districts....so far I don't think it is working very well....

[Dawn in OH]

When I called the school about Kindergarten over 3 years ago there was no mention of a charge for full day Kindergarten.

 

In the last year or two they have made Kindergarten "mandatory", so I can't imagine they would be charging that much.

[Tabrett]

In SC we have full day, mandatory, free K. I really think the reason it is full day is so they won't have the expense of running the buses twice.

[Dmmetler]

K is mandatory in TN (which means that you have to register for it if you're going to homeschool), and since schools have to do 4 hours, they can't do two 1/2 day sessions with one teacher, so most schools do full day K. In the public schools where I taught, full day K was free, as was full day pre-K for kids who had an IEP or were low income.

 

My DD's parochial school does full-day, but if you look at the schedule, the structured academic classes are scheduled before 12:00, with the afternoon being lunch, outside play, centers, rest time, and so on.

[Wheres Toto]

My district has full day kindergarten and has for years. We are a fairly small (and financially secure) district and I think there's only 3 Kindergarten classes. Our state doesn't mandate so districts vary with what they offer - a lot of the larger districts still do half days because they don't have the teachers or classroom space to do full day kindergarten. I have heard that our new state budget (which really screwed the schools) is having many districts looking at 1/2 day kindergarten again but I haven't heard of any offering a pay-for-full-day option. I had never heard of that before this thread but it seems a viable option to me.

 

The "rent" fee for books worries me a lot more. What happens to the kids who can't afford the fee (or their parents refuse to pay it)? I would think any required books would be covered under a free public education.

 

I've heard talk of "Pay to play" set-ups where you have to pay to be on a sports team or do extra-curricular activities. It looks like a lot of districts are getting rid of sports teams, which is going to cause problems with those who still have them - there won't be enough other teams for them to play a full season against.

[Jan in SC]

In SC we have full day, mandatory, free K. I really think the reason it is full day is so they won't have the expense of running the buses twice.

 

While we only have full day, you can opt out of kindergarten by filling out a form with your district.

[Mom-ninja.]

No, in my area you do not pay for full day K. However, there is no option for 1/2 day.

[Sherry in OH]

No half-day option, instead 2 full days plus a 3rd day on alternating weeks is free. Parents pay a fee for 5 full days of kindergarten. All parents pay a school supply fee.

 

I do not know how much the school district charges for 5-day kindergarten. I suspect that it is more than the local YMCA charges for its kindergarten enrichment program. This program is designed specifically for the students attending k 2-3 days a week. The fee is $60-80 a week, depending on the hours attended.

[Dmmetler]

 

The "rent" fee for books worries me a lot more. What happens to the kids who can't afford the fee (or their parents refuse to pay it)? I would think any required books would be covered under a free public education.

.

 

Schools with a lot of low income students receive title I funding, and a title I eligible student (eligible for free/reduced lunch) cannot be required to pay for anything. This includes school supplies or uniforms if a public school has them (although parents are rarely informed about this).

 

Even if a student isn't on free/reduced lunch, I'm not sure a school can legally require that a student pay for textbooks. I can see, though, a school saying "We provide one class set for use at school, and if you want a book to use at home, you'll have to pay the fee" or "If you don't want your 1st grader to have to copy all the math problems out of the workbook, you'll have to pay for him to have his own".

[Supertechmom]

In SC we have full day, mandatory, free K. I really think the reason it is full day is so they won't have the expense of running the buses twice.

 

 

Technically kindergarten is not mandatory in South Carolina and we do have a half day program that is not advertised or acknowledged unless the parent brings it up. That's why there is a difference in the paperwork when one homeschools kindy verses homeschooling first. I even had to get our school district to fax the proper form to the school and explain it to the teachers and principal who never knew kindergarten was not a mandatory program but was completely optional. They knew they had to do different paperwork and different funding options for K but never knew why. See SC law here Title 59 section 35-10 and Title 59 section 65-10 It's kinda of stupid because they make your school have it, tell you must attend but out the other side of their mouth tell you can opt out if you want.

 

To the OP, not only is it normal but they also charge book fees, class fees, heck of a supply list, parking fee, any and all extra curricular fee, sports fee, pe fee and so on until registration day you've paid a couple of hundred dollars just to enroll

 

But again there is no way to enforce that. You can send your child to school and not pay one single dime or penny at ALL. My state has the ability to charge it but not the ability to collect it. My sister had one friend whose kids went the entire 12 + years without paying because there was nothing they could do to get the money. And she called their bluff when they tried to refuse her kids entrance into school. So one can check it from that angle.

[BikeBookBread]

I have never heard of mandatory kinder before! For those of you with this, is it a state or district rule? I didn't think there were ANY states that had mandatory Kinder!

[Supertechmom]

I have never heard of mandatory kinder before! For those of you with this, is it a state or district rule? I didn't think there were ANY states that had mandatory Kinder!

 

 

I'm not sure about every state's laws but the application of the law makes it seem mandatory when it's actually not. THey get more funding without a lot of output and have the chance to get everyone evaluated for labels so more money is in place for first grade. Technically no child under the age of six in SC is required to start school.

[catz]

This is extremely common in our state (MN). Free half day, pay for the full day option. Usage varies widely in different communities. We live in an large city that went to free all day a couple years ago. Now people from neighboring communities try to open enroll. Not that I blame them! :001_smile:

 

$2100 is actually considerably cheaper than most PS full days around here that I'm aware of. Most top $3000.

[gingersmom]

We have full day kindergarten in our district. It is more like a 1st grade class though.

[WagsWife]

 

The "rent" fee for books worries me a lot more. What happens to the kids who can't afford the fee (or their parents refuse to pay it)? I would think any required books would be covered under a free public education.

 

 

 

I can tell you what happened to me. I graduated in 1991 from a school in Indiana. My family had issues, and my mother left during my Jr. year. I ended up living with my best friend and her family. Because my book fees were never paid for my Jr. year, the school refused to give me books my Sr. year. They knew the situation, but it did not matter. I went about 6 weeks without having my own books. Finally, when some students in my class told their parents, they got together and found a way for the fee for both my Jr. and Sr. year to be paid.

[Dmmetler]

I'm not sure about every state's laws but the application of the law makes it seem mandatory when it's actually not. THey get more funding without a lot of output and have the chance to get everyone evaluated for labels so more money is in place for first grade. Technically no child under the age of six in SC is required to start school.

TN is annoying. Legally, a child is not required to attend school until the year they turn 7. However, they MUST start in K when they show up. And every year that leads to at least one child who is almost 7, well beyond K level, but who legally MUST be placed in K. I've seen children magically skip from K to 3rd at the end of the school year due to this annoying law.

 

TN also has a ludicrous law in place whereby if a child is enrolled in K, even for one day, they then must continue to be enrolled in school (including registered as homeschooled) or they're in violation of the truancy laws. It's ridiculous that a parent can't send their 5 yr old, discover that their child isn't ready, and pull them out for a year to wait without registering to homeschool that year (and having to have their child tested if they wish to return to ps, file attendance paperwork, and so on) when the child legally doesn't even HAVE to be in school yet, but that's the way the law is written.

[Excelsior! Academy]

I can tell you what happened to me. I graduated in 1991 from a school in Indiana. My family had issues, and my mother left during my Jr. year. I ended up living with my best friend and her family. Because my book fees were never paid for my Jr. year, the school refused to give me books my Sr. year. They knew the situation, but it did not matter. I went about 6 weeks without having my own books. Finally, when some students in my class told their parents, they got together and found a way for the fee for both my Jr. and Sr. year to be paid.

 

That is awful of the school! Wonderful of your friends. How tramatic.:grouphug:

[Ali in OR]

I am surprised to hear that so many places have the free-half-day and pay-for-full-day system in place. We had that here in Oregon up until a couple of years ago when it ran into legal trouble. I actually know the family that challenged it legally. The state is required to provide a free education, and can't have a system in place where higher income families get a better education than poor families. This led to a situation where our district continued to offer the pay-for-full-day option but low-income folks didn't have to pay (I think it was anyone eligible for the reduced lunch price didn't have to pay). And the afternoon portion had to be enrichment only. The cost to the district is now too high to continue the program, so next year it is back to half day only for everyone. I am surprised that legal challenges haven't happened yet in other places.

 

Educationally, I get a little irritated at high-pressure type A parents who think that their child will be "behind" the rest of the world unless they are in school for 7 hours in kindergarten. I have never met a home schooler who thinks that their kindergartener needs 7 hours of instruction. One to two hours is more the norm. I think half day classes are most appropriate developmentally and educationally. The real need for most families is the child care, not 7 hours of instruction by a certified teacher.

[jujsky]

We have 1/2 day and full-day kindergarten here, and they're both free. I believe the full-day is a first-come, first-serve basis. I know a lot of people were complaining about it at DD's dance school. They end up bussing kids all over the district as not all of the schools even have kindergarten. I don't know quite how they work it, but it's messed up for sure!

[Spy Car]

Here it is full day kindergarten.

 

Parents at the better schools are expected to contribute $500-900 per year per child (plus incidentals) at every level of elementary school. Not just kindergarten.

 

No one can "force" this contribution and not everyone pays, but the annual fund makes up for budget short-falls, weeps class sizes smaller and allows for enrichment.

 

There are also after-school enrichment programs that are rather expensive that are available from kindergarten and up.

 

Bill

[Veritaserum]

Half-day is standard here. I'm not even sure there is a full-day option....

[Wheres Toto]

I can tell you what happened to me. I graduated in 1991 from a school in Indiana. My family had issues, and my mother left during my Jr. year. I ended up living with my best friend and her family. Because my book fees were never paid for my Jr. year, the school refused to give me books my Sr. year. They knew the situation, but it did not matter. I went about 6 weeks without having my own books. Finally, when some students in my class told their parents, they got together and found a way for the fee for both my Jr. and Sr. year to be paid.

 

That is absolutely awful! I'm glad that your friends came through for you but that is a situation that should never be allowed to happen.

[nukeswife]

This is interesting to hear all the differences. When my oldest went to PS K back in 04-05 (back in SE Wisconsin) Full day was what the school preferred and offered half day but you had to request it special. There was no cost to us at all, my son loved it because going full day meant he got to go to a separate teacher for PE, Art and Music which the half day kids didn't get (other than things the K teacher did in class during regular class time)

[AuntieM]

Thanks for all of your reports! It is amazing how many variances exist. FWIW we really don't think she needs a full day, but she has the energy for it and would perhaps enjoy it.

 

Just working the annual Chinese-number-puzzle of how to best meet every child's needs in the coming year. A high school junior and two high maintenance eighth graders have me concerned that my precocious kinder will get very impatient waiting her turn. I don't think ps is really the answer but I did need to at least get the info to consider it (or should I say, to rule it out).

 

Anyway, I was just startled to learn the costs involved.