Another spinoff poll: do you think ANY parent, given the desire, can do it well?

[Halcyon]

Assuming they have the desire, do you think every parent can be a 'good' (as in, better than their public school option, or if their ps is good, then academically about on par) homeschool teacher?

 

ETA: assuming a few things: they're literate, and they don't suffer from severe or debilitating physical or mental illness.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Halcyon

[Pamela H in Texas]

in a word, no.

[AK_Mom4]

No. I think when mental illness seriously impairs the day-to-day functioning of a parent, then the odds are not good that homeschooling will work. No matter how much the parent "wants" to home school.

[LauraGB]

Desire is not enough to achieve anything. This gig takes a lot of commitment and work, from everyone involved. So, based on how the question is stated, I have to say no.

[sassenach]

I have no idea how to answer this. ANY? no. Most? yes.

 

I can think of so many circumstances that can fall under the heading of "any." Someone who can't read or write and has no funds? No. Someone who can't read or write, but has the money to hire out? Yes. There are just so many variables. Someone who is single, works outside of the home 80 hours a week and has no resources? No. Someone who is single, and either has resources or has a way to be home with their kid/s? Yes. I would say that most of the time, where there is a will there is a way. But I can definitely imagine insurmountable obstacles.

[Rhondabee]

Assuming they have the desire, do you think every parent can be a 'good' (as in, better than their public school option) homeschool teacher?

 

I don't think we should judge homeschoolers as "good" only when they are "better" than their public school option. Frankly, I don't have a homeschooling program that is "better" than the program that the public school offers. In fact, I guarantee that almost every subject we are doing could be done just as well, if not better, at the local high school. (I think we probably do a better job at literature, though probably they are better at the actual analysis, idk.)

 

But, my program wins "best all-around" for my particular child.

[Laura Corin]

Deleted - I thought better of privacy issues in relation to post.

 

Laura

[forty-two]

I voted yes - I do think any parent can successfully hs, if they want it enough. Certainly, in the U.S. at least, there are more than enough free resources - *good* ones - that finances aren't a barrier. And I don't think that dysfunction and mental illness are *insurmountable* barriers - but parents with those or other issues have to want to hs enough that they will do what it takes to become healthy enough to successfully do so. Where there's a will, there's a way - but you have to be willing to work for it. Some people might say they want to hs, but they are unwilling to do the work to get themselves in a position to do so. In that case, they just don't want to hs enough to do the work required. But they *could* have, if they wanted it more, if they valued it more.

[DarlaS]

Do you think ANY parent, given the desire, can do it well?

 

Yes, I do. I am assuming the desire is strong enough to make them do whatever's necessary--but I would not necessarily expect them to be good at it every single day.

 

I feel the same way about teachers.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Too many variables. You need more than desire - persistance, drive, organization to some extent, self control, an ability to have some higher level thinking besides just literacy. . .

 

How many times has someone said "I want to do it but don't ever seem to get it done." ?

[AnitaMcC]

Nope... IMO having the desire (assuming they are educated themselves to some extent) is not enough for a parent to homeschool their children.

 

I feel that a parent also need patience to teach their children. And I have to say that I am one parent who would not be able to do a good job of teaching my kids. Which is why I waited until they are old enough to self-learn at least part of the way/time with their education.

 

I used to have the desire to homeschool our kids when they were younger... then I experienced their intense desire to fight.me.every.inch. of the way about every.thing.asked. of them to do in their lives :boxing_smiley:.

 

I homestudy the younger two for religious ed and often times I want to run screaming out of the room in the first 10 minutes of the lesson. :svengo:

 

I would go totally insane if I have to keep my youngest two 24hrs a day 365 days a year. There are times that I must be crazy, because I think about homeschooling them full time... for about two seconds and then they end up doing something that drives that desire/thought right out of my head.:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly: Just this past week my youngest had a book report to do for school... It took him about 30 hours of work over the past week or so to get it done. He fought me every inch of the way doing it. Saturday he finally fineshed reading the book and then it took him 8 more hours to do the assignment.

Edited February 8, 2010 by AnitaMcC

[stripe]

I mean, in theory, maybe, but it's rather hard for a single parent to do it or someone with very minimal funds. Not impossible, but hard. And there's a difference between literate and reasonably educated. Of course, if motivated, everyone can learn, so that's why it's hard to answer this question!

[Aubrey]

How many times has someone said "I want to do it but don't ever seem to get it done." ?

 

Then they don't want to very badly, do they?

 

I voted yes.

[Rosie_0801]

No, I don't think everyone has the experience and imagination. A person with a really shoddy education could improve on their experience for their children, and give their kids a better education than they had, but that doesn't mean it is a good education as compared to other sectors of the community. I had a bit of a paradigm shift recently. I was looking through jobs on the UN agency websites. Our government is always on about being competitive on a global scale, and reading through these jobs made me realise I was planning to educate my children to be middle class, just like we are, but a bit better at it. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but I finally understood what being competitive on a global scale could actually mean in practical terms.

 

Rosie

[HSMom2One]

I said yes based on the huge selection of hs curriculum that is out there. There are choices for every family, enough so that whatever skills (or lack there of) a parent may possess, there is a program that will most likely work. Whether a person has to pull books out of boxes and follow a script, or put together their own lesson plans from scratch, most people with a desire should be able to homeschool with success.

 

By all means, a person with mental illness or highly impaired judgment would not be able to take on the challenge successfully regardless of their desire -- that would be an obvious exception. And (imo) a person that is highly impatient would never be able to make it either, but my guess is that those folks would not have the desire because they know that they are impatient. I also doubt that people with a lack of communication skills would want to homeschool ANYONE'S kids.

 

So there you go....All considered, I guess my answer of yes would fall in the "generally speaking" category.

 

Is that as clear as mud?

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[KrissiK]

I guess I voted too quickly. I said "yes", but I was assuming that coupled with desire was committment, realistic expectations, etc. I was thinking along the lines of making a good marriage. I think that two people who have the desire and committment to make a marriage work can make it work against great odds. It's not so much your circumstances or whether you're "good at it", i.e. a "kid person" or extraordinarily patient, or have taught before that necessarily makes you a good homeschooler. It's that you want to do it and are committed to making the sacrifices necessary to get the job done. So, with those caveats, yes, I think anyone can be a good homeschooler. Which is why I just kind of mutter vague remarks when someone tells me, "You homeschool? I could NEVER homeschool!"

[Ginevra]

ETA: assuming a few things: they're literate, and they don't suffer from severe or debilitating physical or mental illness.

 

As long as we're assuming those things, yes. I don't think a person has to have some special ability to be organized, or very smart, or extra-creative, or highly-educated and so on to do a better job than a typical public school would. If you look at children who are younger than school age, you see they learn to eat, dress, potty, sleep, walk, talk and pet the kitty nicely even if their parents are disorganized, or simple, or poor or sleep too late a lot of the time.

 

In short, I don't think hsing is only suited to some very good or special people. I think it's the normal extension of being a normal, devoted mother.

[Halcyon]

I voted yes - I do think any parent can successfully hs, if they want it enough. Certainly, in the U.S. at least, there are more than enough free resources - *good* ones - that finances aren't a barrier. And I don't think that dysfunction and mental illness are *insurmountable* barriers - but parents with those or other issues have to want to hs enough that they will do what it takes to become healthy enough to successfully do so. Where there's a will, there's a way - but you have to be willing to work for it. Some people might say they want to hs, but they are unwilling to do the work to get themselves in a position to do so. In that case, they just don't want to hs enough to do the work required. But they *could* have, if they wanted it more, if they valued it more.

 

 

I am the OP, and I think what I meant by desire is that they need to desire it enough to do the work ;)

 

Methinks they don't really desire it very much if they don't want to do the work. And that's OKAY. There are times I want to throw in the towel too!! :tongue_smilie:

[Aubrey]

No, I don't think everyone has the experience and imagination. A person with a really shoddy education could improve on their experience for their children, and give their kids a better education than they had, but that doesn't mean it is a good education as compared to other sectors of the community. I had a bit of a paradigm shift recently. I was looking through jobs on the UN agency websites. Our government is always on about being competitive on a global scale, and reading through these jobs made me realise I was planning to educate my children to be middle class, just like we are, but a bit better at it. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but I finally understood what being competitive on a global scale could actually mean in practical terms.

 

Rosie

 

Tell me more about what you mean here, please. I find this very curious.

[Halcyon]

"You homeschool? I could NEVER homeschool!"

 

I hear this SO many times. I also hear:

 

"omg Monday is my favorite day--I can't wait to get rid of them"

"I don't know how you do it--don't you ever want to be alone?"

"I don't have the patience."

 

I want to say "you COULD homeschool if you WANTED to. But you don't want to, and I respect that decision." But I really believe that if you WANT to do something and are willing to commit to it, you can do it.

 

Okay, I amend that. I 'want' to play tennis like Venus Williams. But I never will, not matter how much I play :O

[ereks mom]

Homeschooling is a big job, and it requires MAJOR commitment to do it and do it well. I know a lot of people who have the desire to homeschool -- obviously, or they wouldn't be attempting it -- who lack the commitment to follow through, and their children's education is suffering.

[Stacy in NJ]

element. I think self-discipline and patience are more important qualities. Academically, parents can learn right along with their dc. The more challenging aspect is developing the maturity, self-discipline, and patience to follow through.

 

Some folks are just to scattered, flightly, immature, unfocused, and distracted to treat homeschooling with the attention it deserves.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Stacy in NJ
sp

[Jean in Newcastle]

I hear this SO many times. I also hear:

 

"omg Monday is my favorite day--I can't wait to get rid of them"

"I don't know how you do it--don't you ever want to be alone?"

"I don't have the patience."

 

I want to say "you COULD homeschool if you WANTED to. But you don't want to, and I respect that decision." But I really believe that if you WANT to do something and are willing to commit to it, you can do it.

 

Okay, I amend that. I 'want' to play tennis like Venus Williams. But I never will, not matter how much I play :O

 

See what I think when I hear those things (and I hear them often too) is:

 

1. If you train them to be people you want to be around, then you wouldn't wait to get rid of them. (Though I do admit to having thoughts like this on a really bad day!)

 

2. We're not joined at the hip. (I've actually said this.) We do spend time in other rooms and they do go out without me and vice versa.

 

3. If you have that little patience, how can you parent effectively? I don't have a lot of patience either but I work on it.

 

Re. Venus Williams. If you practiced as much as she does, you might not be able to play exactly like her but I bet you would become pretty good.:D So - how much do you really want it?:lol:

[Halcyon]

Re. Venus Williams. If you practiced as much as she does, you might not be able to play exactly like her but I bet you would become pretty good.:D So - how much do you really want it?:lol:

 

Not that badly, I guess. :tongue_smilie: No seriously, my point is that dna plays a role here!

 

I am an impatient person, and do lose my temper at times with my kids. But I am MUCH more patient as a homeschool mom than I ever thought I'd be. My DH, who is considered more patient than me by far, was home one day when were schooling and he was like "oh. my. god. I could never do this. You are really, really good at this." I rarely feel that way, and of course, as homeschool moms we rarely get external validation, so it made my day. Especially because I know myself ot be an impatient person, and I am glad that (usually) I can overcome it for the sake of my relationships with my kids.

[chaik76]

No, just because you have desire does not mean you can implement an outcome of that desire successfully...no matter how big that desire is.

 

And yes, irl I know many parents that say homeschooling is "better" than ps in all instances.

Edited February 9, 2010 by chaik76

[Night Elf]

I agree with the too many variables idea. Don't forget to include the various educational methods, even if you don't personally believe in one. I can't think of a single educational method that hasn't been diss'd by other homeschoolers. In other words, would you define successful homeschooling as a family following the same educational method you do, and therefore the opposite of successful if they don't? Or if they have different priorities than you do? Those questions can lead to a "hot mess" as Niecy Nash (from Clean House) would say.

 

Therefore, can anyone homeschool under the parameters you've listed? Yes, I believe they can.

[G5052]

You have to have the commitment and organizational skills to get it done.

 

The college classes I teach are full of students who "desire" to get a degree or certificate, but the reality is that many will not. Many are not willing to move mountains to get an assignment in, and many can't keep track of due dates no matter how many times I remind them. I see the same thing in homeschooling world. Wanting to is not enough. You have to hang on and keep in going somehow.

[gardening momma]

Desire is not enough to achieve anything. This gig takes a lot of commitment and work, from everyone involved. So, based on how the question is stated, I have to say no.

:iagree: Exactly what I was thinking--it takes more than desire. For example, I have a desire to homeschool (and I am), but I have to battle procrastination all the time.

[Caribbean Queen]

If they desire to do an excellent job then my answer is, "Yes."

 

Where there's a will there's a way.

[Miss Sherry]

Is there any endeavor in life, other than the obvious ones like eating, sleeping, drinking water etc, that EVERYONE can or should be doing ? I don't think so. But what does it matter. We should do what we believe is best for us and our families , regardless of whether others can or should do it also.

 

I know there are some homeschoolers that think everyone should homeschool, we should close down the p.s., and make it every parents responsibility to personally homeschool their own children. But in our society in general I believe there are many children that would not receive any instruction of any kind if they did not have the p.s. to attend and they are better off in p.s. for other reason's as well. To too many children, the p.s. , as flawed as it is, is the only haven of any type of nurturing they receive. Sad but true.

 

However, I do believe, armed with the knowledge of what's available for homeschool resources and some education of it's benefits, there are MANY more people who could be doing a fine job of educating their own children but the idea of doing so is not a part of their thinking.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[Rosie_0801]

Tell me more about what you mean here, please. I find this very curious.

 

Er. I don't think I know how!

 

Um. Reading through the UN agency job sites showed me again and again how many of those opportunities are closed to us (me, dh, nearly everyone else we know) because we don't speak French; English and French being the two most important of the six official UN languages. There are even more opportunities available if one speaks a third language. I've no idea if we can achieve that, but it now seems really important to try. Even if I can't graduate the kids able to pass the UN language proficiency tests, I'll have given them a darn good start, should they choose to go that way. If they were to start thinking about how cool it would be to apply for one of those jobs when they're almost done with their undergrad degree, they'd feel it was too late to try. You can't just pick up a language in a semester. I think this should give them a mobility the average Australian doesn't. We are predominantly monolingual and those of us down here in Southern Australia are soooo far away from everywhere else.

 

Anyway, we're aiming to send them off to Saturday school for marathon Arabic. If I support it at home, a few minutes each day, they have to learn a fair amount in 12 years. We couldn't study French concurrently, but I think we can work on Latin, and when we feel we're done with that, we'll have a platform to jump off into French. Then, if they want to, they can continue with French during their tertiary studies and come out with taking UN agency jobs (and there are such varied opportunities) as a realistic goal.

 

Answer your question? Man. I'm reading that and feeling like a bit of a psycho, but other people work hard to do this sort of stuff, so why not us too? It seems worth trying even if we don't quite make it.

 

Rosie- feeling like she's bared her soul :leaving:

 

Edit: Yeah, so I forgot to make some kind of conclusive comment to bring it back to the OP. I'm sure in some people's lives, it is taken for granted that one learns a bunch of languages and that any Joe Bloggs can go work for the UN, just like in my little world here, any Joe Bloggs can go work for the government. Until reading the UN sites, I hadn't even conceived of such ideas. There would be people around who's education and experience wouldn't have provided the info they need to conceive of aiming higher as my local school, let alone how to do it.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Miss Sherry]

Assuming they have the desire, do you think every parent can be a 'good' (as in, better than their public school option, or if their ps is good, then academically about on par) homeschool teacher?

 

ETA: assuming a few things: they're literate, and they don't suffer from severe or debilitating physical or mental illness.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your question. Do you mean any and every parent in society in general , or just the one's who have already made the commitment to homeschool their children ?

What is behind your question ? Are you wondering if an average parent can really pull it off ?

[Haiku]

No. I think personality plays into it. I think some people don't have the personality to homeschool, regardless of whether they have the desire.

 

Tara

[LibraryLover]

Did Andrea Yates lack desire?

[Aubrey]

Er. I don't think I know how!

 

Um. Reading through the UN agency job sites showed me again and again how many of those opportunities are closed to us (me, dh, nearly everyone else we know) because we don't speak French; English and French being the two most important of the six official UN languages. There are even more opportunities available if one speaks a third language. I've no idea if we can achieve that, but it now seems really important to try. Even if I can't graduate the kids able to pass the UN language proficiency tests, I'll have given them a darn good start, should they choose to go that way. If they were to start thinking about how cool it would be to apply for one of those jobs when they're almost done with their undergrad degree, they'd feel it was too late to try. You can't just pick up a language in a semester. I think this should give them a mobility the average Australian doesn't. We are predominantly monolingual and those of us down here in Southern Australia are soooo far away from everywhere else.

 

Anyway, we're aiming to send them off to Saturday school for marathon Arabic. If I support it at home, a few minutes each day, they have to learn a fair amount in 12 years. We couldn't study French concurrently, but I think we can work on Latin, and when we feel we're done with that, we'll have a platform to jump off into French. Then, if they want to, they can continue with French during their tertiary studies and come out with taking UN agency jobs (and there are such varied opportunities) as a realistic goal.

 

Answer your question? Man. I'm reading that and feeling like a bit of a psycho, but other people work hard to do this sort of stuff, so why not us too? It seems worth trying even if we don't quite make it.

 

Rosie- feeling like she's bared her soul :leaving:

 

Edit: Yeah, so I forgot to make some kind of conclusive comment to bring it back to the OP. I'm sure in some people's lives, it is taken for granted that one learns a bunch of languages and that any Joe Bloggs can go work for the UN, just like in my little world here, any Joe Bloggs can go work for the government. Until reading the UN sites, I hadn't even conceived of such ideas. There would be people around who's education and experience wouldn't have provided the info they need to conceive of aiming higher as my local school, let alone how to do it.

 

No, this is good. Now I see what you mean--our ed system is so mediocre that they crank out middle class citizens who only speak one language. From where you're standing, the only real way to break out of that is to speak a 2nd, preferrably even a 3rd language. So you're planning to put more effort in than you'd initially reckoned on.

 

That's a very good explanation. I had LOFTY language goals before my dc started hs'ing. I thought they should be fluent in a 2nd language by 3rd g. In a 3rd by middle school and a 4th by the time they graduated. I mean, if I remember my first set of plans right.

 

In reality, though, we had no $ for language lessons, & nobody we knew was fluent in anything but English, which meant teaching a language myself. That's all fine & good, but teaching them & teaching myself are 2 very different things.

 

Ds is in 3rd g, & he's fluent in...English. :glare: But he's dabbled in Spanish & Latin, & he's got 2 extra sibs that we thought we wouldn't get to have. Maybe language can be *next* on the agenda. :001_smile: (Jeepers it's boring to teach, ESP to pre-readers.)

[Peela]

I said yes because I took it that having the desire means really having the desire, in which case, anything is possible. I don't honestly think "patience" is something that we are all born with a certain amount of- we can develop it, and what better motivation? Given the desire, the willingness, personal issues and limitations can be overcome and worked around. There may be a cost of course- many of us sacrifice a 2nd income or our own interests, and also just don't know if the school could do a better job. But we all have to make choices in life.

I know here in Australia a man took his daughter to the wilderness and homeschooled her for her whole childhood using I think the KJV Bible and some encyclopedias and nothing else. They were cut off from civilization- and when they walked back in and were "discovered", after the authorities suitably freaked out about possible wierd sexual issues, they found the young woman had excellent English and was very well educated by modern standards, and quite ok.

However I don't really feel every child is set up to be academic, and perhaps a parent's blessing is that they see a child's potential is in other areas and they give space for it without the cost of the kid losing their self esteem. A local school may have a great academic program but it may not suit a child who can't align themselves with it easily- kids with LDs or various personality quirks.

So generally speaking, I say yes, but the desire for some would have to be strong enough to overcome some pretty adverse conditions .

[IsabelC]

I'd say yes, generally, but with a few exceptions. Although you really have to define what a 'good homeschool teacher' is. Are you defining it by how successfully the child masters academics? Life skills and social skills? How much they enjoy it? Acquiring spiritual values? All of those? Or?

Edited February 9, 2010 by Hotdrink

[Audrey]

in a word, no.

 

 

:iagree:

 

One can be literate and sane and still be completely unfit to be in charge of a child's education, no matter how well-intentioned they are.

[EthiopianFood]

Until reading the UN sites, I hadn't even conceived of such ideas. There would be people around who's education and experience wouldn't have provided the info they need to conceive of aiming higher as my local school, let alone how to do it.

 

Perfect. Exactly what I wanted to say, but I wasn't sure if it was an acceptable thing to say. I would even add that you thought to check the UN site to view their requirements. I think knowing what you don't know, and knowing how to find that information, can make up for what you don't, um, know. :tongue_smilie: I'm not concerned about your kids, I'm concerned about the parents who have no concept that the UN might have a different set of standards in the first place.

[Rosie_0801]

In reality, though, we had no $ for language lessons, & nobody we knew was fluent in anything but English, which meant teaching a language myself. That's all fine & good, but teaching them & teaching myself are 2 very different things.

 

 

Yeah, we're lucky here, in our state anyway. The Victorian School of Languages provides classes for grades 1-12 for about $65 per year, probably more for year 11 and 12. That price for the main instruction is pretty good, and I can factor supporting material into homeschool and Christmas present budgets, plus my brother will be happy to buy stuff for his favourite niece and nephew. I certainly couldn't learn all the languages I hope the kids can. They have the advantage of starting as kids, rather than as a 30 year old mum. ;) I can *support* their language learning without having mastered it, though. As I said, no idea if we can do it, but having a plan is a good start!

 

:)

Rosie

[MelanieM]

I'd say yes, generally, but with a few exceptions. Although you really have to define what a 'good homeschool teacher' is. Are you defining it by how successfully the child masters academics? Life skills and social skills? How much they enjoy it? Acquiring spiritual values? All of those? Or?

 

This. I think it really depends on how a person defines "good". I expect that my kids will end up with gaps that would have been filled in public school, and that they'll cover many other things that public school never would have touched on. Ultimately, my goal isn't to be better overall than the public school, but to be more of a custom fit to what my individual children need. I do think any parent with strong desire is capable of doing this for their children.

 

Anyway, we're aiming to send them off to Saturday school for marathon Arabic. If I support it at home, a few minutes each day, they have to learn a fair amount in 12 years. We couldn't study French concurrently, but I think we can work on Latin...

 

Rosie, this is a tad off topic, but you could you explain why you could teach Latin concurrently with Arabic, but not French? I'm curious what I'm missing about the study of Latin.

 

And thank you for bringing that point up about educating our kids within the framework of what we know! I often say that, as a teen, I had no clue about all the opportunities that were available to me. There are many things I might have done directly after school if I had even known they existed! Others I simply felt were completely out of my reach, based on where I lived, our family financial situation, and my education to that point. So for me, it is extremely important to reinforce the message to my children that they can do *anything* they want to do... if they have the desire to put in the work to do it. ;)

[Ginevra]

3. If you have that little patience, how can you parent effectively? I don't have a lot of patience either but I work on it.

 

This is exactly what I think. I hear the "Oh, I don't have the patience." line ALL the time. I am no Patron Saint of Patience. It is one of my most difficult traits that I have to work on all the time. I am Type A, all the way, and I want it done ten minutes ago.

 

But - geez, people! It took some modicum of patience to handle an extremely fussy baby for four solid months. It took patience to teach them they could make it all through the night without nursing over and over and over again. It took patience for them to realize it was really important to go potty on the toilet and not anywhere else. Patience to learn they could eat asparagus as easily as they eat ice cream. See? To me, if you can somehow make it through all the tasks that are normal to motherhood, what's patiently working on making the letter "A"? What's showing them how to count, add, read and observe that the cork floats and the rock sinks?

 

I know people who don't homeschool in the manner I prefer. But their kids are still learning. What they do wouldn't suit me and looks chaotic and kooky to me, but the magic is in the child, not the method. They learn.

[Rhondabee]

Yeah, we're lucky here, in our state anyway. The Victorian School of Languages provides classes for grades 1-12 for about $65 per year, probably more for year 11 and 12. That price for the main instruction is pretty good, and I can factor supporting material into homeschool and Christmas present budgets, plus my brother will be happy to buy stuff for his favourite niece and nephew. I certainly couldn't learn all the languages I hope the kids can. They have the advantage of starting as kids, rather than as a 30 year old mum. ;) I can *support* their language learning without having mastered it, though. As I said, no idea if we can do it, but having a plan is a good start!

 

:)

Rosie

 

Somewhat related random tho'ts that were already swirling around in my head...(sorry, this is long)

 

Back to your original tho't about educating our kids to be "middle class" but a little bit better off than we are...

 

I am realizing more and more that it just honestly doesn't matter how well educated my children are - there will always be a glass ceiling on their upward mobility because they were born into a middle class family. Sure, if a middle class kid is exceptionally (and I mean really, *really* exceptionally smart) that ceiling might not be there - that situation isn't my reality, so I don't know.

 

But, part of the education of the elite isn't academic. It is very much "how to move in upper circles" and "how to project the aura that you belong there". I see this with my niece (who taught herself to read when she was 3 - so I think she may be one of the "exceptions"). My niece attends a private school where many doctors and politicians send their kids - these are the local kids who are invited to the White House Easter Egg hunt and such. Kids who come from long-standing families and big money. And, even in Kindergarten the school begins teaching proper behavior at black-tie affairs, and intense appreciation for "culture". (For example, the Spanish they learned in Elementary school was the Spanish of the nobles and the court - a step above the Spanish spoken by the common people in Spain.)

 

Not only that - which is explicit. I always have the sense that no matter how well-educated or well-heeled or even well-liked my niece is - she will always be a step "outside" that inner circle. (Good enough to hire, not good enough to marry, iykwim.) She has an intense amount of social pressure - especially for a 5th-grade girl, and my SIL is constantly...kowtowing to these people. Frankly, she has changed so much, and she now has so much disdain for anything "middle class", that we are not very close at all, and my boys always say they would never want to be rich because they see how it changes people. (My brother and SIL are not "rich" - but they are quite well-off.)

 

I guess I have gone through my mid-life crisis, because this oligarchal system used to just rile me. America was supposed to be the place where you weren't judged by where you came from. But, more and more I feel it's useless to fight what just "is" - the apples really don't fall too far from the tree. So, I will still do the best I can by my kids, and hope that they "do better" than I have done. I can give them a glimpse of the world "above" ours so it won't hit them like a ton of bricks (as it did me). But I don't think *I* can teach them to live comfortably in it, no matter *where* they receive their education.

 

sorry so long -

[Lovedtodeath]

Too many variables. You need more than desire - persistance, drive, organization to some extent, self control, an ability to have some higher level thinking besides just literacy. . .

 

How many times has someone said "I want to do it but don't ever seem to get it done." ?

:iagree:I have struggled so much, and I would bet that no one has more desire to homeschool.

[6packofun]

I said yes because I think it's the first key ingredient that will hopefully spawn the motivation to DO it well. It's not just one thing, though, that makes a good homeschooling mom and we're going to have seasons where we're worn out and need to be refueled, etc.

[Jean in Newcastle]

No, I don't think everyone has the experience and imagination. A person with a really shoddy education could improve on their experience for their children, and give their kids a better education than they had, but that doesn't mean it is a good education as compared to other sectors of the community. I had a bit of a paradigm shift recently. I was looking through jobs on the UN agency websites. Our government is always on about being competitive on a global scale, and reading through these jobs made me realise I was planning to educate my children to be middle class, just like we are, but a bit better at it. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but I finally understood what being competitive on a global scale could actually mean in practical terms.

 

Rosie

 

Rosie - I doubt that all UN employees learned 3 languages in childhood. This is a bit of an off-shoot but once you've learned a second language, it is easier to add subsequent languages. There is something about how our brain learns to speak languages, we learn to be more efficient at it over time. Also - this has to do with individual giftedness, but people can pick up languages very fluently even as adults. My own dad didn't learn to speak Japanese until he was in his 20's but he was accent-less and ran and taught at a graduate level school in Japan (seminary). So, we aren't necessarily stunting our kids if we only give them two languages (our native one and one more). But of course, if you have the time and money to pursue it, it won't hurt to add more!

[Crissy]

Assuming they have the desire, do you think every parent can be a 'good' (as in, better than their public school option, or if their ps is good, then academically about on par) homeschool teacher?

 

I think most parents can do well enough, but I don't believe that is what our students deserve.

My own situation illustrates my point. I have a great desire to give my boys the best education I can afford. For years I hoped that would mean homeschooling through high school, but as I struggled to learn higher math and science so I could teach my older son, I realized that the path to the best education for *him* does not go through *me*.

 

I could have kept him home and allowed him to learn on his own. Instead, he is attending our local public school and studying with teachers who push him and challenge him. There is no possible way I could have taken him to the point in calculus where his teacher had taken him this year.

All I could have given him were the credits for his effort. His education certainly would have been good enough, but I don't think that is...well, good enough.

[SonshineLearner]

I think that each parent can teach their children certain things and be IN CHARGE of their education instead of letting their children slide by.... and being surprised. I really believe that children can be thought of as being "home educated" even if you... teach your children and outsource for things that kids can learn better in other settings... I mean... some use some public school... some co-op.... some hire tutors. Perhaps I want to think of another term for it. "Private~ Parent lead Schooling" :-)

[StartingOver]

I think if a parent is willing to learn, they can learn along side their child. Or they can use co-ops, tutors etc. I feel it is totally possible, not probable under those circumstances though.

[Impish]

Thing is...unless you have the desire, nobody would ever do anything, esp something that bucks the system, kwim? You have to want something first. That's the first essential ingredient.

 

Desire, coupled with determination, resourcefulness, patience, and a sense of humour...To me, that makes the essential base for a foundation of success...in anything in life.