Is this weird? (Church question)

[iluvmy4blessings]

This past Wednesday my daughter came home from the youth group and told me that the youth pastor told everyone that the executive pastor had asked to monitor his (youth pastor's) home computer...just for accountability . He mentioned it in his youth talk that night . He said that initially he was offended but that he then realized it was a great way for them to all be accountable to each other. My daughter told me she got the impression that this was not just for the youth pastor but that they had decided to monitor all the home computers of all the pastors for accountability purposes. Has anyone out there heard of something like this? I definitely know computers are monitored at work ,but is it not a bit "big brother" to monitor someone's home computer too? Of course I think it's great that we want to keep everyone accountable who is on church staff but at what point does this become micromanaging and lack of trust? Is it just me who finds this weird?

[Daisy]

Nope, I don't find it weird. I think it is awesome.

 

Our church has a men's accountability group. They use a Christian online service that monitors computer usage. When one of them accesses something inappropriate it notifies their accountability partner. It is a wonderful way for men to keep each other accountable online.

 

Pastoral staff isn't any less tempted in this area than other people are. I think it is wonderful they are being proactive.

 

I find it slightly odd that your youth pastor is telling his youth group that they are doing it unless he was using the opportunity to suggest that even pastors need accountability. Given your other post, this youth pastor sounds rather immature. I don't mean that harshly, just that he is still growing and probably needs mentoring.

 

BTW, if it makes any difference at all, I'm a preacher's kid and my father is currently retired but counselor for pastors all over his state who are struggling with these types of addictions. This type of accountability is desperately needed in the church.

[sunshine]

I may be the only one but I agree with it. Yes it smacks of privacy invasion but the youth pastor is in contact with children as part of his job. Children are a huge part of church. Sometimes a background check is not enough because all pedophiles have not been caught and are out there preying on children and a church is a huge pool to prey on. I would rather lose a little privacy than a child's innocence.

 

Our church uses a disc that looks at every image within a specified time frame and filters it by type. All the pastors computers are subject to be looked at at any time.

[Rosy]

I guess I would need to know more. I'm assuming it would be to make sure the pastors aren't using internet porn...and while I agree that measures need to be taken to protect ourselves from the temptation to do so, someone who wanted to use porn isn't necessarily limited by filtering software. Does the church have to be notified every time one of the pastors buys a computer? Is the library off-limits? What about those who go old-school and buy a magazine? It just seems ineffective to me.

[babysparkler]

Nope, I don't find it weird. I think it is awesome.

 

Our church has a men's accountability group. They use a Christian online service that monitors computer usage. When one of them accesses something inappropriate it notifies their accountability partner. It is a wonderful way for men to keep each other accountable online.

 

Pastoral staff isn't any less tempted in this area than other people are. I think it is wonderful they are being proactive.

 

I find it slightly odd that your youth pastor is telling his youth group that they are doing it unless he was using the opportunity to suggest that even pastors need accountability. Given your other post, this youth pastor sounds rather immature. I don't mean that harshly, just that he is still growing and probably needs mentoring.

 

BTW, if it makes any difference at all, I'm a preacher's kid and my father is currently retired but counselor for pastors all over his state who are struggling with these types of addictions. This type of accountability is desperately needed in the church.

 

:iagree:

[fivetails]

Monitoring their *home* computers? IE, computers that were purchased by the individual (or their families) and are located in their private residence???

 

If the individual WANTS that type of monitoring, for a 'accountability partnership' or something that they have willingly entered into with another person, then fine, whatever. Do your thing.

 

Required? Very inappropriate and intrusive. I've never heard tell of such a thing. I would never - NEVER - take any sort of job that wanted access to my personal home computer. MY computer, in MY home, where I keep MY family photos, financial info, journal entries, stories, homeschool records...are they nuts? No way.

 

Besides - it's pointless. If someone was truly up to something nefarious online, they'd just use an unmonitored computer. (Or iPhone/etc)

[Tangerine]

Honestly, this sounds like something you would hear of an odd splinter religious group. Monitoring activities at home crosses a serious boundary. If a man thinks he needs accountability, by all means ask your wife or another man. But as a condition of employment it seems completely outlandish. And it worries me that it could go far beyond looking at pornography, and venture into everyone at work knowing everything you want to research from political affiliation, to purchasing marital aids, to medical information, to listening to what someone else might consider inappropriate music, to what I would be doing: looking for a new job.

[angela in ohio]

Nope, I don't find it weird. I think it is awesome.

 

Our church has a men's accountability group. They use a Christian online service that monitors computer usage. When one of them accesses something inappropriate it notifies their accountability partner. It is a wonderful way for men to keep each other accountable online.

 

Pastoral staff isn't any less tempted in this area than other people are. I think it is wonderful they are being proactive.

 

I find it slightly odd that your youth pastor is telling his youth group that they are doing it unless he was using the opportunity to suggest that even pastors need accountability. Given your other post, this youth pastor sounds rather immature. I don't mean that harshly, just that he is still growing and probably needs mentoring.

 

BTW, if it makes any difference at all, I'm a preacher's kid and my father is currently retired but counselor for pastors all over his state who are struggling with these types of addictions. This type of accountability is desperately needed in the church.

 

I agree.

 

Considering how many sermons I hear on internet problems, I think this must be a very real struggle for a huge number of men.

[K&Rs Mom]

IMO, if someone is so little trusted that they feel the need to monitor his home computer, he shouldn't be in a leadership role, especially with youth.

 

I totally get the accountability thing, but think it doesn't have any meaning if it's technology monitoring a person - part of the point is that you think twice before doing something because you'd have to tell your accountability partner and that might be embarassing.

[kalanamak]

IMO, if someone is so little trusted that they feel the need to monitor his home computer, he shouldn't be in a leadership role, especially with youth.

.

 

Or, if someone is as mistrustful as the senior pastor, there is certainly a risk of a screw being loose (paranoid personality disorder, power hungry, s*xual misconduct that is projected on others....take your pick).

[elegantlion]

I think it's overstepping the boundaries. I agree to personal accountability and if they agree voluntarily okay, but making it a requirement sounds like the Sr Pastor has a level of mistrust. What if the Sr. Pastor has less than stellar judgment? what if he is on a power trip? As someone else mentioned who is monitoring the monitor?

 

I think personal accountability starts in the home between the husband and wife.

[zaichiki]

Reminds me of the bee watcher watchers from Dr. Seuss's Did I Ever Tell You How Lucky You Are? .

 

http://www.webpages.ttu.edu/sbaugues/fin4323/dr.seuss.pdf

Edited October 8, 2009 by zaichiki

[Remudamom]

Our two pastors monitor each other, I know that for sure. I bet the youth pastor is included too. Now, I think our pastors are great, and I doubt that they have an internet problem.

 

If you knew someone was monitoring you anyhow, wouldn't you be smart enough not to incriminate yourself on your own computer?

[Desert Rat]

This is what I think too. Where there's a will there's a way. I think it's great if the youth pastor is consenting to the monitoring. That won't help him if someone (babysitter, relative, guest) uses his computer and stumbles on some sites they shouldn't have. I've done this by accident myself and have realized how easy it is to do.

[mrsrevmeg]

I think it is great. People in church leadership should be above reproach (2Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 1 Timothy 3:2-3). It is hard to know in this day and age what a person is doing when no one is looking.

[Mommyof4ks]

Nope, I don't find it weird. I think it is awesome.

 

Our church has a men's accountability group. They use a Christian online service that monitors computer usage. When one of them accesses something inappropriate it notifies their accountability partner. It is a wonderful way for men to keep each other accountable online.

 

Pastoral staff isn't any less tempted in this area than other people are. I think it is wonderful they are being proactive.

 

I find it slightly odd that your youth pastor is telling his youth group that they are doing it unless he was using the opportunity to suggest that even pastors need accountability. Given your other post, this youth pastor sounds rather immature. I don't mean that harshly, just that he is still growing and probably needs mentoring.

 

BTW, if it makes any difference at all, I'm a preacher's kid and my father is currently retired but counselor for pastors all over his state who are struggling with these types of addictions. This type of accountability is desperately needed in the church.

 

I agree with this. We have friends who have this sort of accountability to one another at our church. The pastors are just admitting that they are people too who could fall into temptation just like anyone else. Great idea to keep them honest.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Monitoring their *home* computers? IE, computers that were purchased by the individual (or their families) and are located in their private residence???

 

If the individual WANTS that type of monitoring, for a 'accountability partnership' or something that they have willingly entered into with another person, then fine, whatever. Do your thing.

 

Required? Very inappropriate and intrusive. I've never heard tell of such a thing. I would never - NEVER - take any sort of job that wanted access to my personal home computer. MY computer, in MY home, where I keep MY family photos, financial info, journal entries, stories, homeschool records...are they nuts? No way.

 

Besides - it's pointless. If someone was truly up to something nefarious online, they'd just use an unmonitored computer. (Or iPhone/etc)

 

Exactly. If you think that someone NEEDS monitoring/accountability then why are they being trusted with kids?

 

There are NUMEROUS ways around this monitoring. It may make people feel secure, but it means nothing.

[LizzyBee]

My husband's a preacher, but I find that odd and creepy. If someone wants to look at porn or whatever, they will find a way to do it. My pastor in Okinawa did all kinds of things to make himself "accountable," but that didn't keep him from leaving his wife for another woman; his wife was pregnant with their 3rd child and the other woman had 3 small children.

 

At our current church, the staff hold each other to a high standard, but their home computers are monitored by their wives, not other staff members.

[coffeefreak]

I am only accountable to my God and my husband. My employer has no right to intrude in my personal life.

 

Dorinda

[Pretty in Pink]

I think it's over the line.

[Aggie]

How old is the youth pastor? Is he married? Who will be doing the monitoring...the pastor or an elder?

 

It's certainly not a fool-proof method, but some accountability to the church isn't a bad thing, imo. Sure, he could go the old-fashioned route and buy a magazine, but that's a little more difficult than sitting at home and seeing almost anything on the computer.

 

I would like a few more details about how it's going to be done, though, before I decide whether it's weird or not.:001_smile:

[coffeefreak]

OK, I had another thought. HOW much can they see? It's, in effect, giving them permission to put spyware on your home computer. My checkbook, bank accounts EVERYTHING is on this computer. They would be able to see all that. The Sr Pastors are also setting themselves up. Let's say your youth pastor's identity is stolen. Who's to say the Sr Pastor can't be held responsible? It sounds like a mess of legal issues to me and no one should want that.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[2cents]

If they are the computers that are personal home computers I would consider it an invasion of privacy. If this is the lengths they would go to then I would have to wonder why this degree of distrust? I wouldn't let anyone monitor my home computer like this since there is financial info etc that I wouldn't want others having access to.

[Sputterduck]

Very creepy and ridiculously intrusive.

[Denisemomof4]

I find that the church has swayed so far from a biblical model that it's not shocking to me in the least. And because it isn't, I find that really sad.

 

We home church with a large crowd of awesome people. After 15 years of attending and being heavily involved in church, and watching sin on MANY levels from ALL levels, dh and I had to walk away from organized religion. It's the best decision we've ever made.

 

maybe I shouldn't answer, I'm VERY strong in my opinion of the church and those who run them.

[DesertDweller]

If the senior pastor thinks there's a need for accountablility, there is probably already an issue with someone. Monitoring home computers, even for those in church leadership, isn't the norm and, IMO, intrusive.

 

It also shouldn't be a topic at the weekly youth group. The youth pastor used poor judgement in bringing it up.

[mommaduck]

Are they reading his mail, looking at his phone bill, and monitoring his credit cards also?

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Are they reading his mail, looking at his phone bill, and monitoring his credit cards also?

 

 

 

Even if they aren't, ....have they been given access to those things?

 

 

CREEPY

[johnandtinagilbert]

unless I misread (which is possible, I'm tired)...could this be some kind of a warning to the youth...like a roundabout way to say, "Careful what you send, I'm being monitored."

 

I would really need more context to make an honest assessment and perhaps my mind is twisted, but I see this differently.

 

If it is about p()rn, etc., how sad that the issue of liability is moving so heavily in our church bodies...very sad.

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

I haven't read everyone's replies, but this is my take:

 

There is -- unfortunately -- a HUGE problem with internet pornography within the church (google it; you'd be shocked at the stats on it). Our church (mainline -- evangelical free) has a montly men's group, and at one point, the pastor mentioned that the quads of men (small groups of 4-5 guys who pray for one another, meet with one another,etc) have some accountability to their group. There are some software programs out there that allow someone to sent a list of websites that have been visited in the past week to their accountability partners (our spouses). I can't think of the name of the software (I actually think the one the men's group was talking about was a free or low cost service).

 

It isn't meant to be "Big Brother" ish. It is a tool for men (and women) to try and stay pure, or resist temptation, because they now know that someone else is going to know what the are visiting.

 

My husband admitted to me that he had developed a problem with internet pornography about 4 1/2 years ago. He came clean, we sought Christian counseling, I locked him out of the home computer for about 1 1/2 years, and he admitted his sin to the men's group at church. We didn't need accountability software -- dh didn't use the computer to go online at all, so there was no need.

 

Now, I don't know what specific sort of monitoring this particular pastor is talking about, but if it what I've described, I wouldn't have a problem with it. If the pastor has nothing to hide, he shouldn't either.

[mommaduck]

Even if they aren't, ....have they been given access to those things?

 

 

CREEPY

 

Unfortunately, this is very big in hyper-patriarchial groups. There is a difference between authority and a system that sets up potential for abuse of authority. And, from my experience, I have seen a steep increase in porn and other such in these groups. I have speculations on why that is, but I'll keep those to myself for the moment. It's one of the things that caused us to run from those groups though.

[AFwife Claire]

I haven't read everyone's replies, but this is my take:

 

There is -- unfortunately -- a HUGE problem with internet pornography within the church (google it; you'd be shocked at the stats on it). Our church (mainline -- evangelical free) has a montly men's group, and at one point, the pastor mentioned that the quads of men (small groups of 4-5 guys who pray for one another, meet with one another,etc) have some accountability to their group. There are some software programs out there that allow someone to sent a list of websites that have been visited in the past week to their accountability partners (our spouses). I can't think of the name of the software (I actually think the one the men's group was talking about was a free or low cost service).

 

It isn't meant to be "Big Brother" ish. It is a tool for men (and women) to try and stay pure, or resist temptation, because they now know that someone else is going to know what the are visiting.

 

 

Yes, my dh is in a church accountability group, and one of the guys is using that software--"Covenant Eyes" or something like that. All it does is that each week, my dh gets a weekly email listing possibly questionable sites that his accountability partner has visited. If there are any that I think really, truly might be questionable, then I look at them (not my dh) to judge. So far, while they maybe wouldn't be sites I would go to, they haven't actually been porn, and some of them I think have been ones his wife was on (one was for some diet or something--I can't remember why that one triggered the warning). I don't think there is any monitoring of credit cards or anything else, and we certainly couldn't get to any of that info. I'm pretty sure this is a free thing, too. I don't think it is too intrusive. There really are a lot of men in leadership positions in the church who are struggling with porn, esp. on the internet. I would want it to be voluntary, but I don't think it's too weird, and I definitely don't see it as being an issue of hyper-control or anything.

[sassenach]

I haven't read all of the responses, so forgive me if this has already been said. I'm going to guess that he was speaking of this software.

 

This is software that many men (and women) that I know have on their computers. You choose your accountability partner and if you visit any questionable sites, it gets emailed to your partner. All of the pastors that I know (my husband included) have this on their computers. I think it is a wise thing to do. I'm on the fence about it being required, but at the same time, if a man is resistant to installing it, I would want to know why. I think it is especially wise for youth pastors (who work with young and often troubles girls) to have an extra layer of accountability.

 

NOW, if the monitoring that you speak of is something more than this, then yes, I find it odd and intrusive. I would not be ok with big brother type of monitoring.

 

You might just want to email the youth pastor and ask him what he meant. I find that direct communication is always the best option.

 

hth,

[Erica in PA]

This past Wednesday my daughter came home from the youth group and told me that the youth pastor told everyone that the executive pastor had asked to monitor his (youth pastor's) home computer...just for accountability . He mentioned it in his youth talk that night . He said that initially he was offended but that he then realized it was a great way for them to all be accountable to each other. My daughter told me she got the impression that this was not just for the youth pastor but that they had decided to monitor all the home computers of all the pastors for accountability purposes. Has anyone out there heard of something like this? I definitely know computers are monitored at work ,but is it not a bit "big brother" to monitor someone's home computer too? Of course I think it's great that we want to keep everyone accountable who is on church staff but at what point does this become micromanaging and lack of trust? Is it just me who finds this weird?

 

No, I think it's a very good idea. I'm sure that my husband would be fine with having this sort of mutual accountability with other church leaders.

[Ellie]

Yes, it's weird. I'd have some serious reservations about the church.

[Danestress]

porn is one problem for people with computers, but in the real world people use computers to do their online banking, shop for Christmas presents, email their mothers and research medical symptoms.

 

None of these things are the business of church leadership to be monitoring. Maybe my "monitor" they mean something much less invasive than actually reviewing what a person does on a computer, but I would absolutely refuse to let someone "monitor" my finances or personal correspondence, and I wouldn't let my husband's employer do it either. Liberty and privacy are worth a lot to me. It tend to think that I wouldn't give them up for a job. It would have to be one heck of a job if I did, and youth ministry would not come even close.

[katilac]

If the pastor has nothing to hide, he shouldn't either.

 

I completely disagree with this. Wanting your privacy does not equate to having something to hide. That's the type of thinking, imo, that leads to abuse of power - - in all areas of life, not just the church. It's a common argument for intrusive behavior by the government, for example. If you have nothing to hide, why shouldn't the police search your house without a warrant, or tap your phone?

 

If it's voluntary among PEERS, that's one thing. But a 'request' from the boss is not the same.

 

Creepy and intrusive, imo.

[iluvmy4blessings]

Unfortunately, this is very big in hyper-patriarchial groups. QUOTE]

 

What is hyper patriarchal? I feel so uneducated!! LOL...

[Elizabeth Conley]

Monitoring their *home* computers? IE, computers that were purchased by the individual (or their families) and are located in their private residence???

 

If the individual WANTS that type of monitoring, for a 'accountability partnership' or something that they have willingly entered into with another person, then fine, whatever. Do your thing.

 

Required? Very inappropriate and intrusive. I've never heard tell of such a thing. I would never - NEVER - take any sort of job that wanted access to my personal home computer. MY computer, in MY home, where I keep MY family photos, financial info, journal entries, stories, homeschool records...are they nuts? No way.

 

Besides - it's pointless. If someone was truly up to something nefarious online, they'd just use an unmonitored computer. (Or iPhone/etc)

 

 

I agree with this post. Requiring home computer monitoring, or even pressing for it, is a sure sign of a high control group. If a pastor can suggest that, and 30% or more of the congregation fails to step forward and tell him that it's a very, very bad idea, then that failure practically confirms the diagnosis. I'd rush down to the Sunday school before the kids ingest any "kool aid", and high tail it out of there.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Elizabeth Conley

[jazzyfizzle]

I completely disagree with this. Wanting your privacy does not equate to having something to hide. That's the type of thinking, imo, that leads to abuse of power - - in all areas of life, not just the church. It's a common argument for intrusive behavior by the government, for example. If you have nothing to hide, why shouldn't the police search your house without a warrant, or tap your phone?

 

If it's voluntary among PEERS, that's one thing. But a 'request' from the boss is not the same.

 

Creepy and intrusive, imo.

 

 

:iagree:

[Whereneverever]

I think if the senior pastor suggested it and he agreed, it's fine. Clergy members have a huge issue with internet porn- it's pretty well established. All the pastor's I've known have used something like this. My husband is a pastor and has it- I'm his partner.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This seems really strange to me. But then I've had more than enough with anything that focuses on the outward behavior and not on the heart. I think that if the men in leadership do not have healthy unperverted thoughts on sexuality then the church has a major problem. I trust my dh 100% in sexuality not because I think he's personally above it or that Christians don't "do" that kind of thing. I trust him because I know his heart is wholly focused on God's word and God's principles.