I had the audacity to agree with you that atheism was merely another religion, and that its proponents were equally given to pointless arguments. A moderately distressed atheist replied with a personal attack. I ignored that, because the attack was relatively mild, and certainly didn't distress me. That was only about a half hour ago. As of then there was nothing to distress any but the most histrionic of ideologues. If anything distressing was posted after that, I missed it. It was a great thread. I'm sorry it vanished. It's far from the first great thread to disappear. When someone posts a series of remarks that offend me, I put that person on my ignore list for a while. This is because I know I don't have the right to silence other people's voices simply because they disagree with me. I can choose not to listen, but silencing any one's voice is unethical and I will not do it. As a person who values the free exchange of ideas, the disappearing threads trend strikes me as singularly unwholesome. It is bad for any community, and not something I can in good conscience support. Good Bye and Blessings to All, Elizabeth Conley

There is a great deal of temptation to send children to the "strong youth groups" in "nondenominational" churches. Your situation is case in point as to why this is a temptation to be resisted. Nondenominational almost never means "we are compatible with all Christian denominations". Nondenominational usually means "we are too headstrong and dogmatic in our unique interpretation of scripture to function within any denomination". The true purpose of their "inclusive, nondenominational" youth groups is to recruit vulnerable young people to their unique perspective. Now your kid is absorbing their legalistic, antagonistic views toward other denominations, and you've got a rough row to hoe. I'm really sorry. I'm not going to ask you why you sent your kid to this youth group. I understand why. Those groups are masters of PR and recruitment. The current question should be "Where do you go from here?" I don't know the answer, but I'll be thinking about it. I could wind up facing the same problem one day. My daughter goes to a monthly Bible study at the home of a friend of hers whose parent's views don't precisely mesh with ours. We discuss the curriculum and the material covered at the study every single time she returns from one of these "lessons". It's very authoritarian, and I have no desire to raise a mindless little drone or a mini-hitler. She's there to glean what is good, and enjoy her friends. I figure she's old enough to be exposed to ideas that differ from ours, as long as we make those differences crystal clear.

I suspect that those of us with mild mannered children "just don't get it". When my kids don't go to bed, I tell them to go to bed. They go. ("Why do you have to go to bed? Because Mommy's tired. That's why!") If they wander during the night and wind up waking up in the family room, then we talk about it. (There have been monsters under the bed, bad dreams or simple sleep walking. There have been painful illnesses and digestive upsets. There have been beds so full of Legos or matchbox cars that they were uncomfortable.) We've had to address each problem, but not as a discipline issue. Sometimes when we have sleep overs I get a tiny hint of what it would be like to live with less compliant kids. Still, I'm betting I'm clueless when it comes to more serious discipline problems.

We love our Radio shack snap kit. The expanded kit has been worth it. The kids have been able to build dozens of electronic devices.

:grouphug: You really went through a hard time. It must have been very scary to have a child plagued by such overwhelming and seemingly irrational terror.

Recently I've become aware that some parents are asking for police intervention to help them deal with the tantrums of relatively young children. This has been explained to me as a way of documenting the child's extreme bad behavior in order to protect the parent against charges of child abuse. At the time I received this explanation I didn't question it. This article makes me think again: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/1118091taser1.html I've got unusually mild mannered children, so this scenario is hard for me to imagine. Furthermore, I think my husband and I would be very reluctant to call the police for help with a tantrum. As for allowing a policeman to manhandle one of our children, or haul the kid off to a government holding facility - I just can't fathom it. On the other hand, I'm told that some of these kids are bipolar, or have other serious mental health issues. Is it a good idea to get help from the police with child discipline, or is it a mistake?

These simple, matter of fact statements explain much. You've been conditioned to cope with narcissists from infancy. Since you're an adult now, you can safely alter your strategy a bit. The next time you get together with your parents, get together more on your terms than theirs. Invite a few people who will be your allies in a conflict, or at least true moderators. There is no need for you to feel outgunned and outnumbered in every social event that includes your parents. Now that you're an adult, you can stack the odds more in your favor. There are ways to assert yourself without making a scene. You did well when you asked your acquaintance to avoid the home schooling topic. A few more adjustments to the social environment, and you can safely be yourself and their daughter, without getting into a battle royale. Blessings, Elizabeth

I'd simply take it under advisement that she considers you controlling. Note that you consider her somewhat narcissistic. To me, she sounds like an acquaintance, not a friend. I make that distinction in my relationships because I'm way to easy going. Sometimes I find myself being bled dry of time and energy by acquaintances, and missing my friends. Getting together with my friends is for me, getting together with my acquaintances is about social networking. Perhaps you could have said something like this: "In light of the way you feel, I really appreciate that you refrained from instigating an uncomfortable scene with my parents over my homeschooling. That was very kind. Did you want to discuss homeschooling tonight? Would you like to get together and talk about homeschooling sometime soon?" It's really hard for narcissists to control their impulses simply to be considerate of others. If she managed it, she needs a bit of flattery as a reward. It pays to compliment narcissists whenever possible, and thank them for behaving themselves, as long as you can do this without being openly condescending. Lavishing a bit of attention on her is a good idea, particularly if you need her continuing cooperation.

:iagree:What's her thesis? She's got to have a thesis. One doesn't do a "report on home schooling" for a master's thesis. That's Middle School, although even then I'd have the author narrow the topic.:tongue_smilie:That's way to broad.

That seems to be what happened. It's annoying, because I can't for the life of me imagine why. Oh Well. I'll get over it.

Safety is important to me. Now that my kids are old enough to cook, I worry about them reaching across burning pots to reach the dials. I wish our current stove had the buttons on the front of the stove instead of near the back, so the kids could adjust the heat without reaching across the dangerous surface. I also prefer that stove tops be against the wall, rather than in the middle of the room. When they're against the wall it's easier to push the handles out of reach of young children. As for ovens, I prefer that they be at a natural level for removing heavy items. It's best if people don't have to reach up or bend down to retrieve large, heavy, burning hot food from the oven. I'd consider safety, then convenience, then aesthetics.

It's frustrating all right. It's like missing the punchline to a good joke.

OK. So if I simply can't find a post, it's because I don't know how or where to look. I feel even dumber now, but at least I know. Thanks

It seems worth a shot. I'd start with "We're going out to Dairy Queen for dessert tonight." Followed after supper with: "Just kidding." Go for it. Tell us how it goes.

If a thread is gone, does that mean it's been deleted? How do you know for sure something's been deleted? I don't want to get anyone's diapers in a wad, I just want to know why on earth some of these threads vanish. It's mystifying.