How to deal with someone close to you that wants to talk politics...

[mlktwins]

How do you deal with loved ones (not living with me) who want to bring up politics and argue all the time and you won't engage?  This person knows I won't engage (for the sake of the relationship) and persists in baiting me.  This person needs me in their life so I'm trying to be understanding, but I'm tired. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

That's a tough one.  Usually not engaging them will stop the nonsense.  If they are truly passionate about politics and you spend a good bit of time with them, maybe they are just rambling to you.  My FIL was always super political and we didn't agree.  He would say some pretty nonsensical things and even lie/stretch truth to defend his thoughts/views.  We just had to ignore him.  Not say a word or engage.  As soon as he would give a pause, we would try to change the subject, "wow, your yard looks nice.  Is that a new tree?"  :laugh:

[katilac]

Walk away whenever you can. Warn them that you are going to walk away or leave the next time they persist in baiting you, and then do it. "You refuse to respect my wishes, so I'm going home for now. I'll see you later in the week." After the first couple of times, shorten it to simply, "I'm leaving now, see you later." 

 

The trick here is to quickly and calmly leave. You aren't arguing about it, you're just leaving. If they're tossing off quick apologies and promising to stop, you can say, "Great, I'm glad you won't do that next time, see you later." You have to follow up with not answering their (almost inevitable) calls or responding to their messages. 

 

If you can't leave (they can't be alone or need you to do something for them), then start singing or put in your earbuds.

 

Launching into the Barney song is one of my favorites; they can't believe what they're hearing, plus that song is going to be stuck in their head for days. I can sing louder than anyone can talk. I also have no talent, so it's not pleasant, lol. If they ask you to stop singing, you say, "I'll stop singing when you stop talking about politics." 

 

Or say, "I told you I'm not going to listen to that" and then put in your earbuds and listen to something else.  

 

There are people I love who sometimes just want to ramble on, and I can usually ignore that even when I disagree. But when they are persistently baiting me, trying to force me to engage, or in any way getting in my face, I am not going to put up with that. 

 

Setting down ground rules and leaving when they are broken has worked very well for me. These people are generally counting on the fact that you will be too polite to walk away or leave. Don't be. 

[Laurie4b]

Since they need you, and ignore the boundary, I might try something different than "not-engaging." 

 

Did you ever watch the old TV detective show, Columbo? Columbo was remarkably effective by maintaining a posture/attitude of being "confused."  And he would pose questions from a confused POV often about contradictions. 

 

I have found it enormously helpful in life in general. For one thing, it's a humble posture and assumes that you may not have all the facts so keeps you from putting your foot in your mouth in situations in which you were sure your analysis was right... but it wasn't! 

 

So wrt politics: questions from a learning posture (or a confused posture) such as "I'm confused. How does x fit with y?"  

 

Another good question is  some variation of "How do you know?" or "How did you come to that conclusion?" "What is your source?"  (but from a curious, not combative posture)  This seems particularly pertinent in today's climate in which, as my ds says, "Each side is operating from a different set of 'facts.' " Getting to the issue of epistemology (how we know what we know) is critical.  "What leads you to believe that Foxnews is Faux News?" Or "What leads you to believe that the mainstream press is all "Fake News?"  How can we be sure what is factually true? 

 

You can relax and just ask questions, and the answering of questions is likely to cause much more opportunity for reflection than debate anyway. (and the questioning may soothe the "bait you" impulse as the person gets to "teach." However, you are also teaching, but using the Socratic method. 

 

After a time of questioning and learning , then redirect with some form of WITM's  "Pass the bean dip."  (Have a couple redirects in mind before the visit.) 

 

If the person is elderly, keep in mind that there is often a loss of filters. There is a loss of social filters, so they may not realize how socially inappropriate they are being. There is also a loss of judgment so people are more susceptible to fake news, faux news, what have you---just like the elderly are more susceptible to scams. Knowing that their mind is not fully functioning the way it would have years ago can help you bear it better than if you think someone is just being a Class A Jerk. 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Laurie4b

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is my son.  I just (half) listen. 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh and the conversation peters out quickly if I just agree with everything.  I mean what is to argue with?  LOL 

 

I used to love to debate political stuff, but I dunno I just don't anymore. 

 

 

[MEmama]

If they need you in their life, they can respect your request. Full stop. You do not to be a martyr.

 

Personally I get up and leave. Immediately and every time. I have no qualms if the person is being disrespectful.

[nixpix5]

Since they need you, and ignore the boundary, I might try something different than "not-engaging."

 

Did you ever watch the old TV detective show, Columbo? Columbo was remarkably effective by maintaining a posture/attitude of being "confused." And he would pose questions from a confused POV often about contradictions.

 

I have found it enormously helpful in life in general. For one thing, it's a humble posture and assumes that you may not have all the facts so keeps you from putting your foot in your mouth in situations in which you were sure your analysis was right... but it wasn't!

 

So wrt politics: questions from a learning posture (or a confused posture) such as "I'm confused. How does x fit with y?"

 

Another good question is some variation of "How do you know?" or "How did you come to that conclusion?" "What is your source?" (but from a curious, not combative posture) This seems particularly pertinent in today's climate in which, as my ds says, "Each side is operating from a different set of 'facts.' " Getting to the issue of epistemology (how we know what we know) is critical. "What leads you to believe that Foxnews is Faux News?" Or "What leads you to believe that the mainstream press is all "Fake News?" How can we be sure what is factually true?

 

You can relax and just ask questions, and the answering of questions is likely to cause much more opportunity for reflection than debate anyway. (and the questioning may soothe the "bait you" impulse as the person gets to "teach." However, you are also teaching, but using the Socratic method.

 

After a time of questioning and learning , then redirect with some form of WITM's "Pass the bean dip." (Have a couple redirects in mind before the visit.)

 

If the person is elderly, keep in mind that there is often a loss of filters. There is a loss of social filters, so they may not realize how socially inappropriate they are being. There is also a loss of judgment so people are more susceptible to fake news, faux news, what have you---just like the elderly are more susceptible to scams. Knowing that their mind is not fully functioning the way it would have years ago can help you bear it better than if you think someone is just being a Class A Jerk.

Total wisdom right here.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Barney song suggestion: priceless! LOL!!!

[Greta]

 

 

Launching into the Barney song is one of my favorites; they can't believe what they're hearing, plus that song is going to be stuck in their head for days. I can sing louder than anyone can talk. I also have no talent, so it's not pleasant, lol. If they ask you to stop singing, you say, "I'll stop singing when you stop talking about politics." 

 

 

 

This has to be the most creative suggestion I've ever heard for avoiding political discussions, and it could certainly be applied to other obnoxious conversations or just people who are being jerks in general.  I love it!!!  I'm not sure I'm brave enough to actually do it, but I love it!

 

 

Edited for typo.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Greta

[LucyStoner]

In my family, this might be either my dad, my step-FIL or my son.  

 

My dad:  I just tell him that I would rather talk about something else.  And if he persists, I tell him to leave.  I actually share more or less the same broad political views as my dad, but he's gone down the conspiracy theorist rabbit hole and imma NOT goin' with him.  And he's not taking my kids down there either.   :lol:  :lol: 
 

My step-FIL is the one who I am most likely to disagree with.  We don't see him all that often because of distance.  I don't argue, but I don't agree and I am pretty good and changing the direction of the conversation to something more interesting.  

 

My son:  he's 14 and autistic and I feel compelled to discuss things with him a bit more fully so that he can learn to modulate his style a bit and work through logical fallacies and holes in his reasoning.  Because he's a child.  And I am not going to tell him to leave his own house (and therein is the reason my dad will never be allowed to live with us again.  I need to be able to tell him to get out.)

[SKL]

I just smile and say some peaceful platitude, like, "isn't it wonderful that we all have a right to think and vote the way we want?"

 

"There are so many happy topics I would prefer to discuss.  Like ____."  (Suggest a topic they love, like how talented they or their kids are.  :) )

[SKL]

I've had clients do this to me.  Um no thanks.  Not going there.  There has to be something better to discuss.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, along the Barney Song options,...

 

My DH hates political discussions, religious discussions, and talk about fashion.  If he gets too frustrated, the conversation is going on and on and on, or if someone else breaks into a song he doesn't like and they won't stop singing after a few rounds through then he likes to sing this...rather loudly...lol. 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[Lady Florida.]

Since they need you, and ignore the boundary, I might try something different than "not-engaging." 

 

Did you ever watch the old TV detective show, Columbo? Columbo was remarkably effective by maintaining a posture/attitude of being "confused."  And he would pose questions from a confused POV often about contradictions. 

 

I have found it enormously helpful in life in general. For one thing, it's a humble posture and assumes that you may not have all the facts so keeps you from putting your foot in your mouth in situations in which you were sure your analysis was right... but it wasn't! 

 

So wrt politics: questions from a learning posture (or a confused posture) such as "I'm confused. How does x fit with y?"  

 

Another good question is  some variation of "How do you know?" or "How did you come to that conclusion?" "What is your source?"  (but from a curious, not combative posture)  This seems particularly pertinent in today's climate in which, as my ds says, "Each side is operating from a different set of 'facts.' " Getting to the issue of epistemology (how we know what we know) is critical.  "What leads you to believe that Foxnews is Faux News?" Or "What leads you to believe that the mainstream press is all "Fake News?"  How can we be sure what is factually true? 

 

You can relax and just ask questions, and the answering of questions is likely to cause much more opportunity for reflection than debate anyway. (and the questioning may soothe the "bait you" impulse as the person gets to "teach." However, you are also teaching, but using the Socratic method. 

 

After a time of questioning and learning , then redirect with some form of WITM's  "Pass the bean dip."  (Have a couple redirects in mind before the visit.) 

 

If the person is elderly, keep in mind that there is often a loss of filters. There is a loss of social filters, so they may not realize how socially inappropriate they are being. There is also a loss of judgment so people are more susceptible to fake news, faux news, what have you---just like the elderly are more susceptible to scams. Knowing that their mind is not fully functioning the way it would have years ago can help you bear it better than if you think someone is just being a Class A Jerk. 

 

That's still engaging and the OP doesn't want to engage. 

[gardenmom5]

my husband's nephew is like that.  I cut him off and just really minimize contact.    I've had to cut his mother off a time or two (or three) also.  letting her know it's not a topic open for discussion.  (they're polar opposites on the political spectrum.).   she'll just get huffy and leave.   he'd argue more.

 

eta: telling dh's nephew that politics is a closed subject - just encourages him.  - he's no longer welcome in my home.  if his mother gets her knickers in a twist becasue  of it, it's her problem.   he doesn't respect other people having a different opinion than him.

Edited March 11, 2018 by gardenmom5

[Garga]

If you go the route of singing over top of, I have a friend who uses this song. And he actually uses it. It can be funny and annoying at the same time, but it gets the job done:

 

Sung to the tune of Are You Sleeping:

 

I’m not listening

I’m not listening

No I’m not

No I’m not

I can’t even hear you

I can’t even hear you

No I can’t

No I can’t

 

Over and over and over.

[mlktwins]

OP here!  I am enjoying all the responses and really appreciate it.  I will be back later to like and respond :-).  This is my dad.  He is 83.  My mom died very unexpectedly in 2001 and he has lived alone since, although I moved in with him for 3 months after she died to make sure he was set and could take care of things himself.  That was 3 of the longest months of my life and I don't ever plan to live with him again!!!  He lives 15 minutes from me and I'm the one that calls to check on him everyday to make sure he is still breathing :-).  I make him food, grocery shop when needed, call to remind him it is Daylight Savings Time (as I did today).  He is really thoughtful in so many other ways and loves my boys, but has been kind of an instigator my whole life.  Now he is bringing homeschooling into the conversation (they are in 7th grade and he is pushing public high school) and I've about reached my rope.  I was always the peacemaker in my family, but when I've had enough, I'm DONE!

 

I still sing the Barney song to my boys to diffuse situations -- LOL!!!  

[Rosie_0801]

Do you have a local "politics in the pub?" If not, tell him to found one. :p

[shawthorne44]

As a last-resort, there is something I've found effective but it is only to be used when the person's purpose is to be annoying or a huge boundary-cross.   Watch a Dog Whisper episode.   He does this "Zzst" noise when the dog misbehaves.  It works on people too.  I was just remembered in a Southpark episode it worked when Cartman's mother did it to him.  

[katilac]

OP here!  I am enjoying all the responses and really appreciate it.  I will be back later to like and respond :-).  This is my dad.  He is 83.  My mom died very unexpectedly in 2001 and he has lived alone since, although I moved in with him for 3 months after she died to make sure he was set and could take care of things himself.  That was 3 of the longest months of my life and I don't ever plan to live with him again!!!  He lives 15 minutes from me and I'm the one that calls to check on him everyday to make sure he is still breathing :-).  I make him food, grocery shop when needed, call to remind him it is Daylight Savings Time (as I did today).  He is really thoughtful in so many other ways and loves my boys, but has been kind of an instigator my whole life.  Now he is bringing homeschooling into the conversation (they are in 7th grade and he is pushing public high school) and I've about reached my rope.  I was always the peacemaker in my family, but when I've had enough, I'm DONE!

 

I still sing the Barney song to my boys to diffuse situations -- LOL!!!  

 

I have an 80-something instigator in my life too, let's bond over shared trauma, lol. 

 

Talking against your educational choices? Yeah, that's something I wouldn't listen to, I'd walk away/leave every time it happened, whether he was talking to me or my kids. ime, when they realize you are serious and really will leave every time, with the kids, they stop. For the most part  :lol:

 

Standing up for yourself (and your sanity!) doesn't mean that you don't love the stubborn ol' instigator.  He will survive, there are plenty of other things to talk about, and being old doesn't give someone the right to harass you and second-guess your parenting decisions. Giving in, pretending to agree, ignoring them, playing the peacemaker - all of these options just embolden this type of person. Draw a line. Take a stand. Live your life.  

[Seasider]

Since they need you, and ignore the boundary, I might try something different than "not-engaging." 

 

Did you ever watch the old TV detective show, Columbo? Columbo was remarkably effective by maintaining a posture/attitude of being "confused."  And he would pose questions from a confused POV often about contradictions. 

 

I have found it enormously helpful in life in general. For one thing, it's a humble posture and assumes that you may not have all the facts so keeps you from putting your foot in your mouth in situations in which you were sure your analysis was right... but it wasn't! 

 

So wrt politics: questions from a learning posture (or a confused posture) such as "I'm confused. How does x fit with y?"  

 

Another good question is  some variation of "How do you know?" or "How did you come to that conclusion?" "What is your source?"  (but from a curious, not combative posture)  This seems particularly pertinent in today's climate in which, as my ds says, "Each side is operating from a different set of 'facts.' " Getting to the issue of epistemology (how we know what we know) is critical.  "What leads you to believe that Foxnews is Faux News?" Or "What leads you to believe that the mainstream press is all "Fake News?"  How can we be sure what is factually true? 

 

You can relax and just ask questions, and the answering of questions is likely to cause much more opportunity for reflection than debate anyway. (and the questioning may soothe the "bait you" impulse as the person gets to "teach." However, you are also teaching, but using the Socratic method. 

 

After a time of questioning and learning , then redirect with some form of WITM's  "Pass the bean dip."  (Have a couple redirects in mind before the visit.) 

 

If the person is elderly, keep in mind that there is often a loss of filters. There is a loss of social filters, so they may not realize how socially inappropriate they are being. There is also a loss of judgment so people are more susceptible to fake news, faux news, what have you---just like the elderly are more susceptible to scams. Knowing that their mind is not fully functioning the way it would have years ago can help you bear it better than if you think someone is just being a Class A Jerk. 

 

 

Colombo! I love that suggestion!

Sneaky Socratic method, LOL.

[Tanaqui]

If leaving/hanging up the phone isn't an option, then I'd suggest going "gray rock" - be as boring and noncommittal as possible (or be boring and agree with whatever he says, no matter how outrageous). Make it so that discussing politics isn't fun, because you won't play the game.

 

Example:

 

Dad: Rar, rar, rar, TRUMP!

You: Okay, Dad.

Dad: WALL!

You: Mmm-hm.

Dad: GUN CONTROL! GUN CONTROL!!!!!!

You: Mmm-hm.

 

Lather, rinse, repeat. Try to vary your responses as little as possible.

 

Alternatively, you can try a sort of silent treatment.

 

Dad: $%!@

You:

Dad: TRUMP!

You:

Dad: Say, didn't you hear me? I said POLITICS!!!!

You: Hm, you know I don't like to talk about that. *smile*

Dad: BUT POLITICS!

You: *smile*

 

The advanced move is to combine either of these with a "pass the bean dip". Wait a set amount of time for him to tire himself out trying to engage you, then change the subject. "I'm sure you're right about all of that, Dad. Say, what do you think about SPORTS TEAM? They really screwed up last night, huh?"

 

Now he is bringing homeschooling into the conversation (they are in 7th grade and he is pushing public high school) and I've about reached my rope.  I was always the peacemaker in my family, but when I've had enough, I'm DONE!

 

Take my advice. When you allow people to discuss your choices, you're sending the message that these things are up for discussion. And if they're not, they're not. SO DON'T DO IT. Whatever you do, whatever method you choose, definitely don't let yourself get roped into one of these talks if you don't want to. That's worse than politics, hands down.

 

He lives 15 minutes from me and I'm the one that calls to check on him everyday to make sure he is still breathing :-).  I make him food, grocery shop when needed, call to remind him it is Daylight Savings Time (as I did today).

 

What sort of social outlet does he have aside from depending on you to take care of him? Does he have any clubs he goes to or classes he takes, or hobbies? Does he have a poker night, or go to the bar with friends?

 

It might be worth it for you to nudge him into an active life if he doesn't have one. Give him something to do besides pester you. That's better for him, too.

 

[mom@shiloh]

My brother is delusional  -- certifiably so.  When he goes off into one of his conspiracy theory, economy collapsing tirades, my sister goes all Southern belle on him.  "Oh dear, that is just too difficult for me to understand.  I just can't get any of that through my pretty little head."  Works for her and I think it's hilarious.

[Pam in CT]

OP here!  I am enjoying all the responses and really appreciate it.  I will be back later to like and respond :-).  This is my dad.  He is 83.  My mom died very unexpectedly in 2001 and he has lived alone since, although I moved in with him for 3 months after she died to make sure he was set and could take care of things himself.  That was 3 of the longest months of my life and I don't ever plan to live with him again!!!  He lives 15 minutes from me and I'm the one that calls to check on him everyday to make sure he is still breathing :-).  I make him food, grocery shop when needed, call to remind him it is Daylight Savings Time (as I did today).  He is really thoughtful in so many other ways and loves my boys, but has been kind of an instigator my whole life.  Now he is bringing homeschooling into the conversation (they are in 7th grade and he is pushing public high school) and I've about reached my rope.  I was always the peacemaker in my family, but when I've had enough, I'm DONE!

 

I still sing the Barney song to my boys to diffuse situations -- LOL!!!  

 

 

Ah, an elderly parent.  That changes the dynamic a bit.

 

:grouphug:

 

To me, the usual habits of non-engagement / bean dip passing have two carve-out categories...Laurie mentioned one upthread, for elderly whose social filters have maybe eroded and who may also be simply lonely.  And Katie the other, for kids who are still developing an appropriate filter and need practice and scaffolding to get there.

 

If his endless loop on homeschooling is a particular irritant, above and beyond the general political cacophony, perhaps you could draw a firm and consistently enforced boundary on that particular subject; while wielding other general tools, like Laurie's Columbo treatment, katilac's strategic deployment of Barney, and RBG's classic and widely applicable advice "sometimes it helps to be a little deaf" on other issues, so he has the chance to vent without making you crazy?

 

You're a good daughter.  It's a hard walk.

[Tap]

When my fil brings up politics in my home, I tell him that we don't talk politics in my home and if he wants to talk about them he needs to go outside. He is the worst offender, was a trucker and is still a huge talk radio fan, so he doesn't have an intelligent conversation. It is just repeat of sound bites that he has heard other people say. Obviously, No one would follow him to keep up the other side of the conversation.  I change the subject and we move on.

 

In someone else's home, I just tell them that I don't talk politics and it makes me extremely uncomfortable to be around people who are talking about them. In my case, I just remind people that I have a very, very stressful life and I will not let something that strangers do, to add more stress to my life.  If they want to talk about political matters, I will go outside and they can let me know when it is safe to come back in.  If they keep talking, I don't say a word and start to walk outside. They always stop. And it seems to temper some of the random sound bites from starting back up. 

 

Everytime they bring it back up, I say "I'll be outside, let me know when I can come back in".  It always works with our family.  

[dsmith]

If I know the person well and if they have a sense of humor, I cover my ears and say, "la la la la la la, I can't hear you." I may also do it if they don't have a sense of humor, or just tell them I don't discuss politics ever, while walking away.

[Carol in Cal.]

In that circumstance, I'd calmly say, "Oh, you know I hate to talk about this kind of thing." and then I'd quickly put another topic on the table--a bland one.  A new recipe I've tried or a book I've read or a tree branch that fell off my magnolia tree.

[Robin M]

Considering that it's your dad and he may not have anyone else to talk to about these things, could you give him a time limit and let him talk for maybe 15 minutes?   Then change the subject to something else. My dad's 87 and I also have a few older customers who just want to vent.  So I let them with a few uh huhs and mmm's, then move on to another subject.   I tend to give the complainers in my life a certain amount of time to vent, get it off their chest, and process, then gently steer them in another direction.

 

As for the homeschooling, you may have to let him know it isn't open to discussion as that's what you all have chosen to do.

 

 

[Bootsie]

Does it help to acknowledge what he is saying with things like "I can tell you are passionate about this,' or "you have thought about this a lot haven't you"?  When I have dealt with someone in that age range who didn't really want to discuss political issues; I found if I could find things that made him felt heard without having to agree with him myself, the conversation would last a bit (and I would just let things go in one ear and out the other) about politics but then we could move on to other things.  

[Pen]

Something similar tends to happen to me with someone in my sphere when we do not have anything of mutual interest (and without stress) to talk about. If I can think up a topic I'd like to talk about in advance, it sometimes helps.

[Tanaqui]

I thought of something else.

 

My mother, wonderful woman that she is, likes to say outrageous things for attention. Which I mostly deal with by ignoring her or leaving, but sometimes it's worth it to do it right back to her.

 

Actual example:

 

Mom: Wow, according to this, this man killed his 75 year old roommate because she was snoring too loud! Can you imagine!?

Me: Meh, she was in her 70s*, how much longer did she even expect to live?

Mom: WOW.

 

My willingness to do this to her makes her about relatively safe topics - which this was, even though she's also in her 70s! - makes her less determined to do it to me about serious topics. My sister never quite figured that out, nor did she ever learn to tell our mom to f*** off*, and so she has a lot more trouble with the woman.

 

* My sister got cornered the other day while they were traveling together into Manhattan, on the Ferry. Apparently my mother has feelings about female figure skaters wearing skirts, and here my sister had thought it was a safe topic! She asked my advice after the fact, and I told her I would've walked off if Mom refused to drop the subject and I wasn't willing to debate it. "On the boat?" "Yeah, it's a big boat. She walks with a cane. She'd never be able to follow me if I went to another deck." "But what if she needed help?" "On the boat? What's going to happen in the 20 minute trip from Staten Island? Anyway, that's what deckhands are for. And then I'd see her on the other side." But it never would've come to that, because my mother believes me when I tell her I'm done arguing. (Probably just as well she does, really.)

[mlktwins]

OP here!  While I have read through this a couple of times, I finally printed it out (12 pages) and plan to read and think about all your wonderful advice (and funny stories too) tomorrow morning with my coffee.  I feel like a zombie this week with the time change  :tongue_smilie: !

 

I called my dad tonight after not talking to him since our Sunday "conversation."  He usually comes to see the boys for a few hours at least once a week so I invited him for tomorrow.  Should be fun  :lol: !!!  

 

I will be back to post on your comments and give an update!!!

 

Thanks again!!!  I really do appreciate!