I am heartbroken

[Scarlett]

My former MIL died a year and a half ago.  She had three living sons…..my xh is the youngest. In the 40 plus years I have known the family she was hot and cold on and off with all of them at some point.  The middle son who was her favorite…..just got enough of her and he did not speak  to her the last 15 years she was alive……after a particularly bad falling out where she told him to never contact her again and not come to her funeral.  
 

Several years before she died I called my BIL and said hey I just want to encourage you to make peace with your mom before she dies.   He said she was not a real mother and he did not think he would be sorry for his inactions even if she died.  He never would help with the upkeep of their dads grave which just infuriated my xh who over saw it.  Their (him and my xh) relationship was fractured before she even died…..when she died BIL would not even respond to my xh saying, ‘Hey she died’……..it took me contacting him and saying ‘please let us know you got the message your mother died’ before he responded.  He did not attend the funeral.

I don’t really agree with a lot of how he handled that……yet I know she was a terrible person and non maternal and just so so difficult. 
 

So I knew she cut him out of the Will.  And he knew it.  But yesterday he called me to tell me he had received a certified package from his oldest brother.  It as a copy of the will …..where she said, ‘ to this son I leave only $1 because if his lack of care and concern for me and his brothers.’  A dollar bill was attached to the will. 
 

Y’all.  The gut punch to him and to me.  I know everyone gets to leave their money to whom they want.,..,but to cut one child out so coldly…….it just broke me. And my BIL. 

And then a three page letter from oldest BIL saying this is all your fault and what you deserve. …..

And beyond that…..how do the two brothers who were included in the will just not give their brother something…..I am crushed…it is really hard for me to take all of this.

I encouraged my BIL to breathe deeply and let it go.,..but he was as broken as I have ever seen him.   I just don’t know how his mom could do that or how his brothers could do that.

My brother does NOTHING to help my parents.  I could NEVER agree to him being cut out of the will. 

[Rosie_0801]

I hope he burnt the letter and spread it on his veggie garden so the nutrition contained ends up where it belongs.

 

I expect much the same treatment from my own parents. I can't say I'd be terribly generous to the person they imagine me to be either. She's rather horrid. 

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I hope he burnt the letter and spread it on his veggie garden so the nutrition contained ends up where it belongs.

 

I expect much the same treatment from my own parents. I can't say I'd be terribly generous to the person they imagine me to be either. She's rather horrid. 

I am going to share this sentiment with him.  I think he is more upset at this point over his brothers.. 

[Arcadia]

I would be more mad at his brother’s behavior for writing such a scathing letter than the mom for cutting him off her will. My husband’s older brother can behave similar and has done so. 

[Spryte]

17 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I hope he burnt the letter and spread it on his veggie garden so the nutrition contained ends up where it belongs.

 

I expect much the same treatment from my own parents. I can't say I'd be terribly generous to the person they imagine me to be either. She's rather horrid. 

This. All of it. Word for word.

[maize]

The whole situation is horrible.

Administration of a will usually requires that each person named be given what is left to him, but the brother didn't have to include a nasty letter with it.

An adult kid who cuts their parent off presumably knows that the parent owes them nothing; I do feel like he made the choice not to take an inheritance--the whole package kind of goes together. It can be a choice worth making, but it really does sound like it was his choice. The brothers' choice not to give him his portion anyway,  or some portion--that really is the sad part. They may not have wanted to trigger gift taxes (since this would no longer fall under mom's estate)...but they could give a lot more than $1 before triggering any additional taxes.

[Kassia]

My mother was a narcissist and we were estranged when she died.  She left me and my kids (I'm an only child and they are her only grandchildren) nothing.  All I wanted was any family photos - mostly any of my dad - and she knew that.  Everything was donated to charity or destroyed.  It really hurts that I'll never get those photos, but there's nothing I can do and there was nothing I'd do differently before she died.   

ETA - I agree that the brothers should have handled this differently.  I hate that things can get so ugly when someone dies.  😞  

Edited May 26 by Kassia

[popmom]

24 minutes ago, Kassia said:

My mother was a narcissist and we were estranged when she died.  She left me and my kids (I'm an only child and they are her only grandchildren) nothing.  All I wanted was any family photos - mostly any of my dad - and she knew that.  Everything was donated to charity or destroyed.  It really hurts that I'll never get those photos, but there's nothing I can do and there was nothing I'd do differently before she died.   

ETA - I agree that the brothers should have handled this differently.  I hate that things can get so ugly when someone dies.  😞  

That's really terrible, Kassia. I am so sorry. I am quite sure I have been cut out of my parents' will. I had to go no contact a few years ago. What @Rosie_0801 said. I am a horrid person, and they are making sure all of my extended family knows it. It would be a significant inheritance--at least to me, and I am okay that my two siblings will have it all. I have to be okay with that. I do admit to wondering if I would have any legal recourse at that time. 

@Scarlett, that is truly heartbreaking but not all that surprising. I have one sibling that I could totally see writing a similar letter to me one day. Now that I think about it, I will be shocked if I ((don't)) get that letter. I am grateful that you shared this. I will be more prepared because of it. I hope your BIL will be okay.

Edited May 26 by popmom

[Kassia]

@popmom I'm sorry for your situation, too.  These relationships are so hard.  I didn't have to deal with any sibling issues at least, but my mother did bash me to anyone she could - my in-laws, the attorney I had to hire to protect myself from her, my kids.  At least my kids knew the truth and the attorney didn't care I'm sure (but that was embarrassing).  It would have been a significant inheritance for us too, but what I really wanted was the priceless photos.  I try not to think about it too much since at least I have memories of my dad if not the actual photos.  

[Katy]

Unfortunately the whole dynamic is pretty common in narcissists. Those who fight the abuse and eventually cut off contact are often hated, abused, and excluded by those who don't. It's the whole flying monkeys thing. I have a friend going through something similar.

[popmom]

@Kassia I think about the photos, too. And a couple of years before the estrangement, they gave me my grandmother’s rocking chair (the JFK chair) and her bed. My dad said that I could have the matching dresser, etc when they got new furniture. The thought that my mother might destroy my childhood photos or give away my grandmother’s furniture is much more upsetting to me than the money, so I get it. My grandmother was the only safe person in my life growing up.

Edited May 26 by popmom

[DawnM]

So sorry.

In watching estate attorneys give advice, one piece of advice they give is to give the child you don't want to have anything, leave them $1 or so.  That way the child who you want nothing to go to will be named in the Will and it can't be contested as an oversight.

I actually encouraged our 6 year old's bio grandfather to name the bio mother this way in his will.   He knows she will blow it on Meth and so he is leaving everything to his son.   I think his estate is quite sizeable, over $1M.

But that is a very different scenario.   This was pure spite.   And she wanted to ensure he and his brothers didn't have a relationship from then on either.   

 

[HomeAgain]

A slightly different take here - I think you are all way too wrapped up in each other's relationships with people. 

You never should have pushed the brother to make amends.  That's a personal decision.

Oldest brother should never have written the letter to chastise the brother.

 

The only lesson gained from this is that adults really need to respect the space and time everyone needs in their lives.  You don't have the right to insert yourself in anyone else's relationship.  The only thing the brother who was cut out of the will should be doing is gray rocking the lot of you, because people who truly care about you don't force their will on you.

 

I've been getting my own push for amends, in which certain facts are conveniently forgotten.  It's not my job to remind them and continue letting these people insert themselves into my life.  The more that is pushed, the more they are not welcome in any form of relationship.

[Indigo Blue]

The gut punch. Yeah, that was mean. 
 

Scarlett, going forward if this BIL is in your life…I think it’s a good idea to support his decision to have cut contact without amends. And all the emotions surrounding it. He will probably never truly let it go. It may be best to agree it all sucks and his feelings are allowed and validated. 
 

It sounds like he’s been through his own personal and private pain and experiences with his mom that no one else gets or understands. If that mom was capable of something so mean, he knew it all along, even if no one else could see. Because he was already feeling it. 
 

She had every right to leave him no money, but she didn’t have to be so cruel. 
 

 

 

 

[Bambam]

I'm sorry, Scarlett. That is a terrible situation. The brother who mailed a  copy of the will may have been the executor, so he had to carry out the instructions, so that might be the explanation for that - but the three page hand-written letter? That says, to me, more about the writer and his issues than the recipient. 

Is it possible the letter writer spent more time with his mom and was heavily influenced by her? Maybe has some of her negative traits? Maybe he has no balancing influences in his life to try to make him see things more reasonably than from his mom's point of view?  I also can't see shutting one child out of the will like that, but I do know that anger can make people do very strange things. 

As for the other two sons getting everything and one son getting $1, that is the instructions of the will, so I think it is what it is. I wouldn't push or expect the two sons who got anything to share with $1 beneficiary. It is their money, maybe not the way any of us would have left our money, but it was the way your MIL decided to leave it.  I used to get annoyed when my employer would give me little cards that indicated how much they *thought* I should donate to the United Way based on my salary. IMHO, I agreed to work for this salary, you agreed to pay me it, and it is mine to do with what I want, and you (company) don't get a say in that.  I, personally, would view the will the same way. She left me this, and no one else gets to have any input into what I do with it.  However, it was truly spare money for me, and I knew my non-inheriting brother was having financial problems (not self inflicted), I would probably try to help. If he wouldn't accept funds directly, I might look at trying to pay his electric bill or something like that on the sly. 

[Scarlett]

Thanks everyone for you posts and letting me know it is pretty common.  @HomeAgain what you are calling me wrapped up in their business is what I call having a relationship with people.  I did not push.  I gave my opinion he told me his feelings, reminded me I know how bad she is and I said well you have a point so ok then.  That was years ago.  I do not regret making sure he knew she died.  
 

@Indigo Blue all I am doing at this point is being his sounding board and offering sympathy for the really sucky way he is being treated.  He knows I understand and he knows he doesn’t have to give back story to me.

My Xh is the executor.  I think he should have given both brothers a copy of the will when she died. Not sure why he did not. BIL said to me yesterday he thinks my xh was responsible for getting the will changed and all of the ugly language in it.  I told BIL I did not believe that.  I mean obviously I don’t really know but I think it gave him a small comfort that his brother wasn’t behind the disinheriting. 

I suggested he go for counseling.  He said, no I am too old for that I am just going to distract myself.  He is retired and he and his girlfriend do a lot of hiking and motorcycle riding. And exploring the country.  He is a retired federal worker and his pension is decent.  So I don’t worry about him in that way.  But this is not as much about money as it a mother who is so mean she could do that to one of her kids. I don’t know why I am surprised though, she abandoned her firstborn to her parents and then when he died she never wanted to speak of him again.  And his brothers…..the cruelty…..and yes I do think they should share some of the money.  
It is really really hard for me to wrap my mind around all of it.  It does just bReak my heart. 

 

[Scarlett]

I also have a recent contrast of someone in my life whose father just died.  He has a step mother his age.. who hasn’t worked outside the home their entire 20 plus marriage.  The dad left his estate a huge mess. My friend was left a big CD and he took his portion and handed it over to his step mother because he felt that was the right thing to do although he has no legal obligation to do so.  
 

Some people are decent and some people are horrible.  

[stephanier.1765]

8 hours ago, Kassia said:

My mother was a narcissist and we were estranged when she died.  She left me and my kids (I'm an only child and they are her only grandchildren) nothing.  All I wanted was any family photos - mostly any of my dad - and she knew that.  Everything was donated to charity or destroyed.  It really hurts that I'll never get those photos, but there's nothing I can do and there was nothing I'd do differently before she died.   

ETA - I agree that the brothers should have handled this differently.  I hate that things can get so ugly when someone dies.  😞  

Photos are really the only thing I want when my parents are gone. I know there will be more but the pictures are what matter. I am so sorry you didn't get the ones of your family, especially of your father.

[KungFuPanda]

It sounds like the brother who wrote the letter has some guilt for not sharing and wants to justify his greed. Otherwise, why write the letter at all? Maybe the other brother will share? I don’t know why he wouldn’t. It’s free money. He’d lose nothing by sharing. 

[stephanier.1765]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

So sorry.

In watching estate attorneys give advice, one piece of advice they give is to give the child you don't want to have anything, leave them $1 or so.  That way the child who you want nothing to go to will be named in the Will and it can't be contested as an oversight.

I actually encouraged our 6 year old's bio grandfather to name the bio mother this way in his will.   He knows she will blow it on Meth and so he is leaving everything to his son.   I think his estate is quite sizeable, over $1M.

But that is a very different scenario.   This was pure spite.   And she wanted to ensure he and his brothers didn't have a relationship from then on either.   

 

Should the $1 advice go for grandchildren, as well? My parents are leaving one of their grandchildren out of the will because she cut that whole half of the family out of her life. She's the narcissist in our family and no one would take her crap so she cut us all out so she could play those games with others who would, so my parents changed their will. I could see her narcissism wanting to challenge the will, even though she wasn't a part of their lives.

[gardenmom5]

I'm sorry -  ime when a parent is so controlling they will go out of their way to provoke their children, they will often do things that will set siblings at odds with each other as well.   Triangulation. If they're not capable of having a good relationship with children, they're usually not capable of helping their children to have a good relationship with each other.  (and will go out of their way to sabotage those relationships.)

 

it's commonly advised by estate attorney's to "not" completely cut children out of a will - but to leave them at least $1, or mention them - to make it more difficult to be contested.  (my brother kept sending threatening letters, including from the military legal aid office, because 1/3 of the estate among three siblings wasn't enough for him.  there's a reason my mother made my dh executor. He demanded a copy of the will - so we sent one to him. There's also a reason we never got a letter from a private attorney - no one would take his case. - there's also a reason - which I won't go into (and before my brother started his shenanigans) - why I requested my mother to insert what her attorney called the "super duper nasty clause" - anyone causing legal trouble will be cut off.).

I would consider the eldest brother quite petty to include his three page nasty letter.  If he was executor, it would have behooved him to be professional, and just - here is what mother left you in her will, attached is a copy of the will.  That would have been all that was legally required.  your former mil's words speak to her character.

Edited May 26 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

Should the $1 advice go for grandchildren, as well? My parents are leaving one of their grandchildren out of the will because she cut that whole half of the family out of her life. She's the narcissist in our family and no one would take her crap so she cut us all out so she could play those games with others who would, so my parents changed their will. I could see her narcissism wanting to challenge the will, even though she wasn't a part of their lives.

They can seek legal counsel - but they may need to mention her to she can't legally claim she was forgotten and contest the will.  They don't have to leave her anything.

[lauraw4321]

4 hours ago, DawnM said:

So sorry.

In watching estate attorneys give advice, one piece of advice they give is to give the child you don't want to have anything, leave them $1 or so.  That way the child who you want nothing to go to will be named in the Will and it can't be contested as an oversight.

I actually encouraged our 6 year old's bio grandfather to name the bio mother this way in his will.   He knows she will blow it on Meth and so he is leaving everything to his son.   I think his estate is quite sizeable, over $1M.

But that is a very different scenario.   This was pure spite.   And she wanted to ensure he and his brothers didn't have a relationship from then on either.   

 

I’m an estate attorney and I do not advise this. I advise that they simply state “I make no allowance for my child X in this my last will and testament.” Technically you want a signed receipt from someone proving they got what they were entitled to. Awful to try and track someone down for a spiteful $1. You just acknowledge they exist so that there’s no argument that they were forgotten. 

[lauraw4321]

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

Should the $1 advice go for grandchildren, as well? My parents are leaving one of their grandchildren out of the will because she cut that whole half of the family out of her life. She's the narcissist in our family and no one would take her crap so she cut us all out so she could play those games with others who would, so my parents changed their will. I could see her narcissism wanting to challenge the will, even though she wasn't a part of their lives.

Not your lawyer but if they are including grandkids then yes I would mention the one being excluded. Typically grandkids don’t inherit unless their parent is deceased. 

[bolt.]

Wills are very tricky things. They are a legal conveyance of money and goods, but they are often used to communicate information about people and relationships. So, the way they are both those things at once makes it confusing.

From my perspective, this mother was not okay, and did not behave in appropriate, maternal, or even ethical ways. This led to an estrangement with one of her children that was complete, permanent, mutual, and appropriate. To me that seems like absolutely the right thing to do, and it was right that it included a lack of "final regard" through any inheritance. If she had used her will to communicate some kind of "final regard" in spite of her prior decades of behaviour that would have been strange. The fact that she neither had a relationship with him, nor any regard for him, nor any money for him (above a legally advisable minimum) was entirely consistent with who she was and what she wanted.

That's why I don't think that your BIL's siblings have any obligation to share what is now their money.

Firstly because it's not the money that hurts. If anything hurts, it's the late mother's complete lack of regard or acknowledgement that she thought of him as a family member at all. Having a sibling try to remedy that through a financial gift would be a mismatch. Money doesn't fix relationships. Money wouldn't mean his mother thought of him as a family member -- it would only emphasize that she, clearly, in fact, did not.

It might communicate that his siblings thought of him as a family member and an equal participant... but clearly they do not think so either.

Which explains why there is anger now at the siblings, for their affirmation of her rejection. (But it's not about the money.)

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

It sounds like the brother who wrote the letter has some guilt for not sharing and wants to justify his greed. Otherwise, why write the letter at all? Maybe the other brother will share? I don’t know why he wouldn’t. It’s free money. He’d lose nothing by sharing. 

I'm confused - do you think recipients of a will are supposed to share?  why?  It was the mother's money to dispense of as she pleased.  She didn't have to leave anything to any of them.  If the siblings want to share, that's their choice - but then they will have other hoops because that isn't an inheritance from a dead relative, but a gift from someone living and the tax laws are different.

the mother deliberately cut her son out of the will.  My grandmother used threats of "If you don't do what I want, I'll cut you out of my will" -all. the. time.!  (go ahead. . . . really took the wind out of her sails. I'd rather have my integrity.  I refused to sell my soul for a mess of potage.).   It was how she attempted to control people, because money was so important to her.

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'm confused - do you think recipients of a will are supposed to share?  why?  It was the mother's money to dispense of as she pleased.  She didn't have to leave anything to any of them.  If the siblings want to share, that's their choice - but then they will have other hoops because that isn't an inheritance from a dead relative, but a gift from someone living and the tax laws are different.

the mother deliberately cut her son out of the will.  My grandmother used threats of "If you don't do what I want, I'll cut you out of my will" -all. the. time.!  (go ahead. . . . really took the wind out of her sails. I'd rather have my integrity.  I refused to sell my soul for a mess of potage.).   It was how she attempted to control people, because money was so important to her.

I shared. I didn’t agree with how my grandmother divided up her money, so I shared my portion with the family that got short changed. 🤷‍♀️

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

It sounds like the brother who wrote the letter has some guilt for not sharing and wants to justify his greed. Otherwise, why write the letter at all? Maybe the other brother will share? I don’t know why he wouldn’t. It’s free money. He’d lose nothing by sharing. 

I'm confused - do you think recipients of a will are supposed to share?  why?  It was the mother's money to dispense of as she pleased.  She didn't have to leave anything to any of them.  If the siblings want to share, that's their choice - but then they will have other hoops because that isn't an inheritance from a dead relative, but a gift from someone living and the tax laws are different.

the mother deliberately cut her son out of the will.  My grandmother used threats of "If you don't do what I want, I'll cut you out of my will" -all. the. time.!  (go ahead. . . . really took the wind out of her sails. I'd rather have my integrity.  I refused to sell my soul for a mess of potage.).   It was how she attempted to control people, because money was so important to her.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I shared. I didn’t agree with how my grandmother divided up her money, so I shared my portion with the family that got short changed. 🤷‍♀️

Thank you for being a good human. ❤️

[gardenmom5]

 

20 minutes ago, bolt. said:

 

Firstly because it's not the money that hurts. If anything hurts, it's the late mother's complete lack of regard or acknowledgement that she thought of him as a family member at all.

Having a sibling try to remedy that through a financial gift would be a mismatch. Money doesn't fix relationships. Money wouldn't mean his mother thought of him as a family member -- it would only emphasize that she, clearly, in fact, did not.

It might communicate that his siblings thought of him as a family member and an equal participant... but clearly they do not think so either.

Which explains why there is anger now at the siblings, for their affirmation of her rejection. (But it's not about the money.)

Bingo.
This.  100Xs this.

as an adult - my mother would try to "fix" the discrepancies.    It was insulting, and as if she took me for a fool.  It was a huge struggle for me.  I didn't want money - I wanted time and care from a parent/grandparent.
 

Edited May 26 by gardenmom5

[KungFuPanda]

6 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'm confused - do you think recipients of a will are supposed to share?  why?  It was the mother's money to dispense of as she pleased.  She didn't have to leave anything to any of them.  If the siblings want to share, that's their choice - but then they will have other hoops because that isn't an inheritance from a dead relative, but a gift from someone living and the tax laws are different.

the mother deliberately cut her son out of the will.  My grandmother used threats of "If you don't do what I want, I'll cut you out of my will" -all. the. time.!  (go ahead. . . . really took the wind out of her sails. I'd rather have my integrity.  I refused to sell my soul for a mess of potage.).   It was how she attempted to control people, because money was so important to her.

I wouldn’t give a hateful relative the last word, even in death, if it was in my power. If my mother ever did such a thing (and she would NEVER) I would strengthen the relationships I have with my living siblings. (Barring addiction or irredeemable behavior) I wouldn’t use tax implications as an excuse to hoard wealth either. It’s the people that matter. This isn’t earned money from my joint household account with my husband. It’s inherited family wealth that I’d share with my siblings. I’d even share with my half sister if the money came from the ‘other’ side of the family. Money matters.  I’m not naive. People matter more. 

[Kassia]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

some people are horrible.  

Especially after a death when there's money involved.  It surprises me how some people are like vultures.  😞 

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

Photos are really the only thing I want when my parents are gone. I know there will be more but the pictures are what matter. I am so sorry you didn't get the ones of your family, especially of your father.

She knew how much I wanted those photos and used them to try to bribe ds1 into a relationship with her.  I told him they weren't worth that much to me for him to do that so he ignored her.  She had no use for them - she had divorced my father by then and remarried.  

 

42 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

I would consider the eldest brother quite petty to include his three page nasty letter.  If he was executor, it would have behooved him to be professional, and just - here is what mother left you in her will, attached is a copy of the will.  That would have been all that was legally required.  your former mil's words speak to her character.

ITA 

[gardenmom5]

28 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I wouldn’t give a hateful relative the last word, even in death, if it was in my power. If my mother ever did such a thing (and she would NEVER) I would strengthen the relationships I have with my living siblings. (Barring addiction or irredeemable behavior) I wouldn’t use tax implications as an excuse to hoard wealth either. It’s the people that matter. This isn’t earned money from my joint household account with my husband. It’s inherited family wealth that I’d share with my siblings. I’d even share with my half sister if the money came from the ‘other’ side of the family. Money matters.  I’m not naive. People matter more. 

 would you share with those who have "addiction or irredeemable behavior"?  

I'm the one that was cut out of my grandmother's will.  It was my choice because I *refused* to suck up to her. (and I have my integrity). My mother tried to make things 'even' - it was debasing.  money doesn't fix relationships, especially when someone's love of money was used to damage the relationship in the first place.

[Corraleno]

The 3 page letter was petty and vindictive, but I don't understand why someone who chose to go totally no contact 15 years ago would expect — or even want — to inherit money from the person he had severed ties with. IMO, going no contact is a valid (and actually healthy) choice to make when dealing with a narcissist, but there are trade-offs for the peace of mind that comes with that, and sometimes those trade offs include being disinherited.

I was very explicit with my siblings that not only did I not expect to inherit anything from my mother, I would not accept any money from her, so it would be cleaner and easier for everyone to just leave me out of the will entirely. (Thankfully I had already gotten all the photos and documents I wanted.) They're the ones that put up with her and as far as I'm concerned, they earned every penny of whatever they inherited. She died earlier this year, and I did not attend the memorial service nor do I have any idea what was in the will.

My ex-husband cut his mother off 10 years ago, and I would not be surprised if she leaves him out of her will. My kids and I have maintained contact, and we visit as often as we can (considering she lives in the UK); I think it's likely that she will leave ex's "share" directly to my kids instead. Should my kids have to hand that money over to their abusive dad, with whom they have virtually no relationship, in order to be considered "good people"??? Or is it actually OK for their grandmother to decide what to do with her own money?

I understand the impulse to share with a disinherited sibling if the reason they were left out is unreasonable or outside of their control (being gay, being the "wrong" religion, interracial marriage, etc.). But if an adult child makes a conscious choice to go no contact, and stays no contact for an extended period of time up to and including the death of the parent, then I don't understand why they would think they had a right to money from the person they chose to cut off, or why they would expect that the siblings who maintained a relationship, and may even have cared for the parent in old age, should have to give up part of what was left to them to "make things even." The relationships were not "even" — and that was because of a conscious choice made by one of the children.

I will never regret the choice I made, because the emotional relief and peace of mind I got from going no contact is worth more than any amount of money my mother could have left me. But obviously that's a calculation everyone has to make for themselves, and if someone is going to be horribly hurt by being disinherited then they will have to decide if it's worth putting up with years of toxicity in the hope of getting some kind of payoff at the end.

[livetoread]

17 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

'm the one that was cut out of my grandmother's will.  It was my choice because I *refused* to suck up to her. (and I have my integrity). My mother tried to make things 'even' - it was debasing.  money doesn't fix relationships, especially when someone's love of money was used to damage the relationship in the first place.

I get that, but IMO, money is money and is almost always nice to have. Once the horrible person is dead and can't manipulate with money anymore, the money loses its connection and just becomes something nice to have. Nothing can be fixed for sure, but that doesn't mean the extra money isn't useful. I can see not allowing money to manipulate you, but afterwards, sure I'll take it!

And that's why in the same vein I'd share with a sibling who was cut out unfairly. Money is nice to have, and why shouldn't my sibling also have it? I wouldn't really consider it all mine.

ETA, I agree with Corraleno though, that siblings who did the dirty work shouldn't feel obligated to share with a sibling who didn't.

Edited May 26 by livetoread

[gardenmom5]

35 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Especially after a death when there's money involved.  It surprises me how some people are like vultures.  😞 

 

Death brings out people's true characters . .  or lack of . . 

My brother had been attempting to manipulate our mom to get money so much before she died, I really shouldn't have been surprised at his behavior after she died.

And it's those reminders that make me wonder why I have any contact with him now . . . (he's not actually allowed in my home, my kids can't stand him)

 

21 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I get that, but IMO, money is money and is almost always nice to have. Once the horrible person is dead and can't manipulate with money anymore, the money loses its connection  

money doesn't lose the connection to a manipulative person - you always know where it came from, especially if it's from someone else saying "I want to make things 'even'".   It's a huge reminder of how you "fit" in the family.

 

28 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 

I understand the impulse to share with a disinherited sibling if the reason they were left out is unreasonable or outside of their control (being gay, being the "wrong" religion, interracial marriage, etc.). But if an adult child makes a conscious choice to go no contact, and stays no contact for an extended period of time up to and including the death of the parent, then I don't understand why they would think they had a right to money from the person they chose to cut off, or why they would expect that the siblings who maintained a relationship, and may even have cared for the parent in old age, should have to give up part of what was left to them to "make things even." The relationships were not "even" — and that was because of a conscious choice made by one of the children.

 

sometimes it's the parent/grandparent who cuts off a child because - as you say - there's something "wrong", EVEN if the only thing "wrong" is being the scapegoat.  I started finding out about family 'parties' my grandmother hosted to which I was deliberately excluded.  Irony being, from the time I married and moved into my own home, I *hosted* every single family holiday my family attended.  (re: Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving . . . . )

[sheryl]

13 hours ago, Scarlett said:

My former MIL died a year and a half ago.  She had three living sons…..my xh is the youngest. In the 40 plus years I have known the family she was hot and cold on and off with all of them at some point.  The middle son who was her favorite…..just got enough of her and he did not speak  to her the last 15 years she was alive……after a particularly bad falling out where she told him to never contact her again and not come to her funeral.  
 

Several years before she died I called my BIL and said hey I just want to encourage you to make peace with your mom before she dies.   He said she was not a real mother and he did not think he would be sorry for his inactions even if she died.  He never would help with the upkeep of their dads grave which just infuriated my xh who over saw it.  Their (him and my xh) relationship was fractured before she even died…..when she died BIL would not even respond to my xh saying, ‘Hey she died’……..it took me contacting him and saying ‘please let us know you got the message your mother died’ before he responded.  He did not attend the funeral.

I don’t really agree with a lot of how he handled that……yet I know she was a terrible person and non maternal and just so so difficult. 
 

So I knew she cut him out of the Will.  And he knew it.  But yesterday he called me to tell me he had received a certified package from his oldest brother.  It as a copy of the will …..where she said, ‘ to this son I leave only $1 because if his lack of care and concern for me and his brothers.’  A dollar bill was attached to the will. 
 

Y’all.  The gut punch to him and to me.  I know everyone gets to leave their money to whom they want.,..,but to cut one child out so coldly…….it just broke me. And my BIL. 

And then a three page letter from oldest BIL saying this is all your fault and what you deserve. …..

And beyond that…..how do the two brothers who were included in the will just not give their brother something…..I am crushed…it is really hard for me to take all of this.

I encouraged my BIL to breathe deeply and let it go.,..but he was as broken as I have ever seen him.   I just don’t know how his mom could do that or how his brothers could do that.

My brother does NOTHING to help my parents.  I could NEVER agree to him being cut out of the will. 

So very sorry!  That is heart wrenching.  Are the 3 sons able to meet in person to sort it out.  Not over Skype.  Buy the plane ticket if needed.  But, meet in person?  

[gardenmom5]

1 minute ago, sheryl said:

So very sorry!  That is heart wrenching.  Are the 3 sons able to meet in person to sort it out.  Not over Skype.  Buy the plane ticket if needed.  But, meet in person?  

Even if only two of them want to try and sort things out.  
The relationships are a bigger deal than money.

 

I was surprised how much easier my relationship with my sister was after our mother died.   - it's now cordial, not what I'd call sisterly.  But that's a huge improvement.

[Scarlett]

47 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I get that, but IMO, money is money and is almost always nice to have. Once the horrible person is dead and can't manipulate with money anymore, the money loses its connection and just becomes something nice to have. Nothing can be fixed for sure, but that doesn't mean the extra money isn't useful. I can see not allowing money to manipulate you, but afterwards, sure I'll take it!

And that's why in the same vein I'd share with a sibling who was cut out unfairly. Money is nice to have, and why shouldn't my sibling also have it? I wouldn't really consider it all mine.

ETA, I agree with Corraleno though, that siblings who did the dirty work shouldn't feel obligated to share with a sibling who didn't.

It was a lifetime of dirty work for them all. She was a terrible mother to them all. Now from the grave she continues to cause pain. 

[Scarlett]

And as far as BIL obviously expecting to be cut out….. that doesn’t mean it isn’t a final gut punch to read the actual words.  If she had left him some money he could maybe feel like she had an ounce of love for him. 

[Corraleno]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It was a lifetime of dirty work for them all. She was a terrible mother to them all. Now from the grave she continues to cause pain. 

She's not doing anything from beyond the grave — the brother who wrote the letter made his own choice to be petty and vindictive. He wrote the letter, not his mother; he mailed it, not his mother; he chose the exact words he knew would hurt his brother, not his mother. And that's 100% on him.

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

And as far as BIL obviously expecting to be cut out….. that doesn’t mean it isn’t a final gut punch to read the actual words.  If she had left him some money he could maybe feel like she had an ounce of love for him. 

This is such a bizarre concept to me — if only this terrible toxic person, who seemed incapable of feeling or expressing normal motherly love throughout her life, had left a few bucks to the person who hadn't spoken to her in 15 years because of her unrelenting toxic behavior, then he could have finally felt the love he never got in her lifetime. What??

I'm sure his mother likely felt "if only my son would come to see me before I die, maybe I could feel like he had an ounce of love for me." He had the right to cut her off emotionally, including refusing to see her before she died, and she had the right to cut him off financially after she died. How is any of that unfair? He explicitly said she was "not a real mother," yet he wanted her to leave him money as proof of motherly love?

 

[Scarlett]

17 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

She's not doing anything from beyond the grave — the brother who wrote the letter made his own choice to be petty and vindictive. He wrote the letter, not his mother; he mailed it, not his mother; he chose the exact words he knew would hurt his brother, not his mother. And that's 100% on him.

This is such a bizarre concept to me — if only this terrible toxic person, who seemed incapable of feeling or expressing normal motherly love throughout her life, had left a few bucks to the person who hadn't spoken to her in 15 years because of her unrelenting toxic behavior, then he could have finally felt the love he never got in her lifetime. What??

I'm sure his mother likely felt "if only my son would come to see me before I die, maybe I could feel like he had an ounce of love for me." He had the right to cut her off emotionally, including refusing to see her before she died, and she had the right to cut him off financially after she died. How is any of that unfair? He explicitly said she was "not a real mother," yet he wanted her to leave him money as proof of motherly love?

 

I am not exactly saying it is unfair. II am saying it is sickening to me —-all of it. I have said everyone gets to leave their money to who they please. 
I know he hoped she would show some small sign she loved him. 

[bolt.]

49 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I know he hoped she would show some small sign she loved him. 

Except that she didn't love him.

That's what makes this so terribly tragic.

I understand the impulse to imagine that there is a "right thing to do" and that doing "something" might make the situation a little better. I think that's why you are reaching towards the possibility that "good people" can undo the lack of a mother's love and regard by sharing the money they inherited from her.

The truth is that getting some of her cash, second-hand from a sibling, does not mean his mother loved him. It just makes him an unloved rejected son with a slightly higher bank account balance. There's no way for his siblings to heal that.

But I do understand the impulse that some siblings have when they believe they have received an unfairly high inheritance at their sibling's expense. Re-splitting the inheritance is a way of saying, "Our parent didn't think you were worthwhile, but we do." and/or "Our parent didn't understand what they justly owed you, but we do." -- If it's a sign of good relationships among siblings, it can be a balm.

But there isn't good relationships between these siblings. Spreading around the cash isn't symbolic of restored brotherly love, unless they actually restore their love for their brother. If they have to be pushed into writing a cheque, it means nothing. It's just another version of being unloved but slightly richer. It isn't going to help in the ways that really matter.

[KSera]

24 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It's just another version of being unloved but slightly richer.

This may be irrelevant in this case, but there are lots of people for whom a little inheritance could really relieve some financial stress, not just make them “slightly richer.” It might mean they can eat properly, it might mean they can relieve some housing insecurity. It can mean all kinds of  concrete life improvement for many people that may not make them any more loved, but at least makes them able to make ends meet for awhile. And that’s huge for someone who isn’t financially stable. 

 While I agree that in this particular case the son cut his mom off so it doesn’t really make sense that he specifically still wanted or expected her money, I am looking at the idea of siblings sharing from the perspective that not everyone is financially comfortable and in current society, money makes a tangible difference for that. So perhaps irrelevant to the specific situation, but in the general discussion of “why would siblings share when it doesn’t make someone any more loved,” it seems to come from a privileged perspective to assume that the money itself doesn’t make a tangible difference.

[bolt.]

7 minutes ago, KSera said:

This may be irrelevant in this case, but there are lots of people for whom a little inheritance could really relieve some financial stress, not just make them “slightly richer.” It might mean they can eat properly, it might mean they can relieve some housing insecurity. It can mean all kinds of  concrete life improvement for many people that may not make them any more loved, but at least makes them able to make ends meet for awhile. And that’s huge for someone who isn’t financially stable. 

 While I agree that in this particular case the son cut his mom off so it doesn’t really make sense that he specifically still wanted or expected her money, I am looking at the idea of siblings sharing from the perspective that not everyone is financially comfortable and in current society, money makes a tangible difference for that. So perhaps irrelevant to the specific situation, but in the general discussion of “why would siblings share when it doesn’t make someone any more loved,” it seems to come from a privileged perspective to assume that the money itself doesn’t make a tangible difference.

You're right. At certain points in life, any money, from any source is welcome -- whether it comes with love or not.

[Frances]

5 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I'm confused - do you think recipients of a will are supposed to share?  why?  It was the mother's money to dispense of as she pleased.  She didn't have to leave anything to any of them.  If the siblings want to share, that's their choice - but then they will have other hoops because that isn't an inheritance from a dead relative, but a gift from someone living and the tax laws are different.

At the most, they would need to fill out one tax form, that’s not much in the way of hoops if it’s the right thing to do and helps preserve family relationships. We gave away 1/2 of an inheritance when we thougt someone had been unfairly left out of the will. In our case, my FIL, the oldest of five, died before his mother, with whom he was close. She never changed her will, so his share was spit between my husband and his sister rather than going to their mom. We each gave their mom half of what we received. Everyone involved, including the other inheritors, was very happy with our decision.

Edited May 26 by Frances

[gardenmom5]

28 minutes ago, Frances said:

At the most, they would need to fill out one tax form, that’s not much in the way of hoops if it’s the right thing to do and helps preserve family relationships. We gave away 1/2 of an inheritance when we thougt someone had been unfairly left out of the will. In our case, my FIL, the oldest of five, died before his mother, with whom he was close. She never changed her will, so his share was spit between my husband and his sister rather than going to their mom. We each gave their mom half of what we received. Everyone involved, including the other inheritors, was very happy with our decision.

It wouldn't be taxed as inheritance (because it's not stipulated in the will, and they legally can't change the conditions of the will and claim that it's part of the will)

Legally it's a gift, and it would be taxed as a gift.   Tax rates, and how it affects the giver, are different.

[SKL]

It's all very sad.  But we don't know all sides of the story.

I'm the most forgiving person I know.  But I 100% agree with my mom having estranged herself from her dad.  He abused her in every way you can imagine (some so horrible I can't write it here), but I think the final straw was that he chose not to attend the funeral of his then-22yo son who was murdered.  Eff him.  He tried to make amends at some point when he was close to death.  Nope.

My mom certainly didn't expect to inherit anything ... I mean if I inherited from such a person, even if I needed the money, I'd wash it with bleach first.

I have a niece who estranged herself.  Her folks still love her and reach out to her from time to time, but she doesn't respond.  At one point she wrote a long letter to her parents saying they are dead to her.  OK well.  I hope she doesn't go crying on someone's shoulder after her folks die.  If she ever comes to me, I don't know that I would treat her gently.  I really don't know.

I don't know about the letter mentioned in the OP.  It's certainly not something I would ever write.  However, again, we don't know what it said or how it was said or why.  Possibly the writer honestly believes that the brother's actions were the cause of much heartache and maybe even preciptated the mom's death.  Maybe it was more of a "I hate to be the bearer of bad news, bro, but I mean after all, you did___."  Or maybe the executor is indeed just a horrible person (in which case I think it should not be too hard to ignore whatever he says).

I wouldn't expect the heirs to share.  The estranged brother should not and apparently does not expect that.  Besides, it's not that simple.  The law requires that the will be carried out as written.  After that, there's only so much you can give without creating additional red tape.

Edited May 26 by SKL

[SKL]

41 minutes ago, Frances said:

At the most, they would need to fill out one tax form, that’s not much in the way of hoops if it’s the right thing to do and helps preserve family relationships. We gave away 1/2 of an inheritance when we thougt someone had been unfairly left out of the will. In our case, my FIL, the oldest of five, died before his mother, with whom he was close. She never changed her will, so his share was spit between my husband and his sister rather than going to their mom. We each gave their mom half of what we received. Everyone involved, including the other inheritors, was very happy with our decision.

You were doing what the deceased person probably intended, so that's a different scenario.

[SKL]

Ugh this thread is scaring me.  My folks are leaving me their house because (a) I gave them so much money over the years, way more than the value of the house and (b) they know I'm the type to help my siblings and be fair.  But what is fair?  Apparently the world will judge me whatever I do.  Praying my folks live a long time so I don't have to fight that fight any time soon.