Let's talk about modern playground safety

[MercyA]

There's a video making the rounds right now about all the dangerous things Gen X kids survived:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/335233145560978

I have to say, I love me some Def Leppard. 😉 

However, being members of the Hive, I know all of you will recognize the fallacy in the argument, "I survived it; therefore it is safe." 🙂 

Out of curiosity, I looked up some information on playground equipment history and statistics regarding injuries and fatalities on playgrounds.

While doing so, I came across this on Wikipedia, under the heading of "Unintended Consequences"

"As a result of what some experts say is overprotectiveness driven by a fear of lawsuits, playgrounds have been designed to be, or at least to appear, excessively safe.[23] This overprotectiveness may protect the playground owner from lawsuits, but it appears to result in a decreased sense of achievement and increased fears in children.[23]

The equipment limitations result in the children receiving less value from the play time.[23] The enclosed, padded, constrained, low structures prevent the child from taking risks and developing a sense of mastery over his or her environment. Successfully taking a risk is empowering to children. For example, a child climbing to the top of a tall jungle gym feels happy about successfully managing the challenging climb to the top, and he experiences the thrill of being in a precarious, high position. By contrast, the child on a low piece of equipment, designed to reduce the incidence of injuries from falls, experiences no such thrill, sense of mastery, or accomplishment. Additionally, a lack of experience with heights as a child is associated with increased acrophobia (fear of heights) in adults.[23]

The appearance of safety encourages unreasonable risk-taking in children, who might take more reasonable risks if they correctly understood that it is possible to break a bone on the soft surfaces under most modern equipment.[23][31]

Finally, the playground that is designed to appear low-risk is boring, especially to older children.[23] As a result, they tend to seek out alternative play areas, which may be very unsafe.[23]

Risk management is an important life skill, and risk aversion in playgrounds is unhelpful in the long term. Experts studying child development such as Tim Gill have written about the over-protective bias in provision for children, particularly with playgrounds."

This rings true to me; yet at the same time there are strong arguments to be made for legislated safety in products for children.

What says the Hive?

Edited November 29, 2023 by MercyA

[marbel]

Yeah that video brought back some memories for this boomer. 😄 

It is difficult. How safe is too safe? I don't know. We used to rub our metal slide with wax paper to make it more slippery. One of my cousins broke her collarbone going down our slide headfirst. It was taken in stride as something that can happen to a kid. But what if it had been a severe head injury? 🤷‍♂️

I do think many kids are over-protected but I don't have an answer to the question. I tried to find a balance with my own kids which is what I assume most parents do but most likely my assumption is wrong.

 

[Indigo Blue]

I can’t see those arguments as a sound and practical basis for lowering the standards of playground safety. Do you agree?

[Carrie12345]

My kids are mostly beyond the playground stage, though they do occasionally go still. But I’ve always preferred for them to test their skills and boundaries off of public grounds and/or with skilled help nearby.  
They’ve been woods explorers, tree climbers, foragers, trackers, “construction builders”, riders of various wheeled contraptions, shooters of bullets and arrows, and Junior firefighters by 14.  Also builders of fire, choppers of wood, drivers of golf carts and ATVs… Just overall plenty of opportunities to hurt themselves. 🤪. 
The biggest injury :::knock on wood::: has required stitches from running in the house.

[bookbard]

I would also argue that older playgrounds weren't very inclusive. I often remember being the one on the ground because I was too short to reach some of the huge climbing frames that our school had. 

The risky play thing is a very big theme in current early childhood research, but I would argue that playgrounds don't have to be dangerous to be challenging and fun. You can have roundabouts which don't trap feet. You can have climbing frames with bark rather than concrete underneath! I actually think the playgrounds I see nowadays are heaps more fun than the hot metal bars we had to play on. Those huge climbing 'trees' are really cool, for example. I also find that nature-based playgrounds are really enticing to kids, with stones and logs for balancing, and tunnels made of tree branches.

[JustEm]

I remember when the playgrounds in my town all started going to lower structures that were supposedly safer. It resulted in us kids no longer playing at the parks because the structures were boring.  There were tons of slides but they were short and low to the ground so older kids got no enjoyment out of them. 

In my kids lifetime I've witnessed those playgrounds being torn down and replaced with fun plays structures again. Lots of high or challenging climbing structures but with safer landing areas than concrete.

 

[Heartstrings]

Even with the safer playgrounds I see plenty of parents running around completely stressed about kids doing perfectly safe age appropriate things like climbing stairs or ladders.  As a broader society we have lost all sense of what is ok for a child to do physically.   I think it’s helicopter parenting matched with a weird feeling of competition.  It’s not good enough to be safe “enough”, you have to be the safest parent, ever, even if it means hyperventilating over a 4 year old climbing a 3 step ladder up to a 3 foot slide.  So many parents are so anxious and that anxiety can’t be healthy for the children.  

Edited November 29, 2023 by Heartstrings

[TexasProud]

It isn't just playgrounds.  I remember heading off in the morning on a Saturday on my bike and just riding around the neighborhood.  For hours. Or going to the woods to explore or the drainage ditches that had crawdads.  I spent a ton of time outside exploring either by myself or with a few friends.  Our parents didn't know exactly where we were though in the neighborhood somewhere.  We came home when it got dark. 

Even though we had 50 acres my kids didn't really explore it which surprised me. I would have been fine with it.  

[TravelingChris]

My kids loved the playgrounds in Europe which were very unsafe.  They never got hurt nor did we see anyone else get hurt.

[busymama7]

I believe in this and allow my kids to do what others would think very dangerous like climbing rock formations/mountains.  I get yelled at by other adults.  But I do it anyways.  Luckily I have friends who feel the same and we go together.  

My kids play sports including tackle football and our biggest injury happened while playing tag in the grass and tripping. (broken arm requiring surgery). 

I do believe kids need to learn their limits. There is also information about brain development and spinning.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Modern and safe parks don’t have to be boring. We have some very excellent playgrounds in our area. One has a spacenet https://www.kompan.com/en/us/products/play/corocord-rope-climbing/spacenets for climbing. Another has a sculptural element for climbing and creative play. We have inclusive features at our parks (that are wheelchair friendly). There’s a wide variety of activities.

I really think some of the differences are due to funding. It’s been easy for parks and rec departments to throw up a few swings with some monkey bars and a slide and a covered pavilion with grills and call it done. Other community spaces, like libraries, also vary due to funding. Some are amazing (maker spaces with 3D printing, extensive library of things lending, lots of programming) and others are pretty sad.

[TechWife]

I wish our culture wasn’t so fear based. In my non-expert opinion, I do think that playground “safety” is built around a fear of lawsuits and not around encouraging developmentally appropriate play. I think it’s great that there are materials that don’t burn skin - that encourages play. But I also think we try to bubble wrap kids an awful lot. I’m not sure where the balance is. There’s a lot of research around play and how it’s beneficial to kids for all kinds of reasons.

The adult planned play mentality is excessive.

Another fear based habit parents in our area have is waiting at the bus stop with the kids. Some days I think there are more parents there than kids! If people really think a “chaperone” is needed to prevent abductions or fights, then make a schedule like car pool, people! 

[MercyA]

53 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I can’t see those arguments as a sound and practical basis for lowering the standards of playground safety. Do you agree?

There would have to be a way to weigh potential benefits and risks. It could be done via a mathematical formula, I think. Difficult but not impossible.

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

nother fear based habit parents in our area have is waiting at the bus stop with the kids. Some days I think there are more parents there than kids! If people really think a “chaperone” is needed to prevent abductions or fights, then make a schedule like car pool, people! 

Now this is required by many schools.  The bus driver has to see the parent to let the kids off, ID must be shown if your a new person doing the pick up etc.  The over protection is now required by the system, probably because the most anxious parents join the PTO or school board and make us all conform to their preferences.  

[JustEm]

8 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Modern and safe parks don’t have to be boring. We have some very excellent playgrounds in our area. One has a spacenet https://www.kompan.com/en/us/products/play/corocord-rope-climbing/spacenets for climbing. Another has a sculptural element for climbing and creative play. We have inclusive features at our parks (that are wheelchair friendly). There’s a wide variety of activities.

I really think some of the differences are due to funding. It’s been easy for parks and rec departments to throw up a few swings with some monkey bars and a slide and a covered pavilion with grills and call it done. Other community spaces, like libraries, also vary due to funding. Some are amazing (maker spaces with 3D printing, extensive library of things lending, lots of programming) and others are pretty sad.

This is what the playgrounds in my area are changing to now. 

[TechWife]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

Now this is required by many schools.  The bus driver has to see the parent to let the kids off, ID must be shown if your a new person doing the pick up etc.  The over protection is now required by the system, probably because the most anxious parents join the PTO or school board and make us all conform to their preferences.  

There are about fifteen kids at the elementary bus stop on our street. I can’t imagine a bus driver having to match each of those kids to a parent! No wonder we can’t get people to fill jobs like that - it’s crazy-making. 

[Faith-manor]

20 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I would also argue that older playgrounds weren't very inclusive. I often remember being the one on the ground because I was too short to reach some of the huge climbing frames that our school had. 

The risky play thing is a very big theme in current early childhood research, but I would argue that playgrounds don't have to be dangerous to be challenging and fun. You can have roundabouts which don't trap feet. You can have climbing frames with bark rather than concrete underneath! I actually think the playgrounds I see nowadays are heaps more fun than the hot metal bars we had to play on. Those huge climbing 'trees' are really cool, for example. I also find that nature-based playgrounds are really enticing to kids, with stones and logs for balancing, and tunnels made of tree branches.

This matches what I think. Nature based exploratory n is a positive. And there are reasonable precautions to take without preventing much needed play and exploration.

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, TechWife said:

There are about fifteen kids at the elementary bus stop on our street. I can’t imagine a bus driver having to match each of those kids to a parent! No wonder we can’t get people to fill jobs like that - it’s crazy-making. 

And not worth the effort given the pay scale. I would never go through that level of angst for such poor pay, not to mention the responsibility of somehow managing 60 children, driving safely, arriving on time.

[TechWife]

11 minutes ago, MercyA said:

There would have to be a way to weigh potential benefits and risks. It could be done via a mathematical formula, I think. Difficult but not impossible.

Actuaries do this at insurance companies. I expect much of it is done automatically through data analysis these days. 

[Xahm]

We've got better playgrounds in our area now than we did when I was a kid ('90s), by far. They tend to do a good job allowing kids to climb pretty high and test their balance in a lot of ways while being open ended enough for kids to come up with lots of different ways to play. They also have been designed pretty well to reduce the likelihood of severe injury, which is important. I expect my kids to get some bumps and bruises and I'm willing for them to  break an arm or even get a minor concussion, but no major head trauma or complex fractures should occur from normal playground play. 

I'm really more concerned with how to deal with other safety rules that have sprung up. We had to really push to get the teachers to allow our 4, 7, and 9 year olds to walk together out of Sunday School to meet us in the sanctuary. (Same building). I'm not sure it would have been approved if it had been only one child. Scouts has some good rules written, but there is a tendency to interpret them in the most draconian way possible, far past what's written or intended. When that happens, they tend to get ignored or fun stops, neither of which is good.

[Rosie_0801]

Those spacenets do get boring quickly.

The kid who isn't afraid climb to the top and sit there. Everyone else skirts around the bottom. There's rarely real playing on them because someone's mum will come and yell. 

[ScoutTN]

5 minutes ago, Xahm said:

We've got better playgrounds in our area now than we did when I was a kid ('90s), by far. They tend to do a good job allowing kids to climb pretty high and test their balance in a lot of ways while being open ended enough for kids to come up with lots of different ways to play. They also have been designed pretty well to reduce the likelihood of severe injury, which is important. I expect my kids to get some bumps and bruises and I'm willing for them to  break an arm or even get a minor concussion, but no major head trauma or complex fractures should occur from normal playground play. 

I'm really more concerned with how to deal with other safety rules that have sprung up. We had to really push to get the teachers to allow our 4, 7, and 9 year olds to walk together out of Sunday School to meet us in the sanctuary. (Same building). I'm not sure it would have been approved if it had been only one child. Scouts has some good rules written, but there is a tendency to interpret them in the most draconian way possible, far past what's written or intended. When that happens, they tend to get ignored or fun stops, neither of which is good.

I work in a large church. A parent or teen sibling, with the correct numbered tag, picks up children infants-4th grade. No kid ever leaves a children’s ministry event or program on his or her own recognizance. This is basic and has been for decades.

Two deep leadership and buddy system in scouting are also good, basic, long-standing safety measures. Bad things can happen when these are ignored.

[Indigo Blue]

I get it about it being fun to climb to high places and hang upside down and all. I did those things! I’m just thinking that in a public setting, it’s probably better to have relatively safe playgrounds. I don’t see it as helicoptering. Some of that equipment was truly dangerous, and there are children of all ages on the playground simultaneously. In schools, it’s hard for teachers to keep an eye on all the kids at all times. 
 

One time when ds was in elementary school, he was sitting on the top of a very high bar. Some kid came along and pulled his feet downward and he pitched forward and landed face down and busted his glasses. He could have been hurt so much worse than he was. 
 

I don’t think boring playgrounds are the answer, but there has to be a middle ground somewhere. Thick springs just waiting to pinch little fingers off …..those are best gone forever. 
 

High places….there should be some measure of safety there and proper supervision. 
 

We are always free to take our children to do whatever level of risk we feel comfortable with and let them go…. rock climbing, whatever. 
 

I just don’t think playgrounds should be full of accidents waiting to happen. It’s a shame that they have made them more boring, but I’m not sure what the answer is in this sue-happy world. 

[marbel]

Re: school bus stops. I don't know the rules here, but I do know that the streets in my neighborhood are dangerous during pickup/dropoff times because of the sheer number of kids and their associated family members in the streets. Parents don't pay attention - they are chatting - and aside from the school kid, younger siblings and dogs are running around. It's a quiet neighborhood, but there are still cars (people going to work, etc) and the parents have no regard for that. Of course people drive carefully, but still, kids darting around can create an accident.  The bus stops at every other block and they are all like that. 

I understand that a mom can't leave the baby and younger siblings at home, but there are friendly neighbors so it seems they could tag team. Also, often there are both mothers and fathers out there; it's like a big social event every morning! 

[QueenCat]

The worst playground injury when I was subbing in the school clinic was a child running headfirst into a picnic table. I could

see her scalp. Once the ambulance took her, I puked. She was okay, but it took a while to fully recover.

 

That said, she was running. We can hardly ban kids from running outside during recess... 

[HomeAgain]

We cannot have a discussion about the need to take risks without first addressing the giant elephant in the room: the ER is prohibitively expensive for many families and urgent care is just as appalling.  If finances mean that medical care needs to be reserved for mundane occurrences and emergencies, parents will always minimize the risk from common areas, like playgrounds.

Lets do proper medicare for all in this country, then do risk assessments that include potential injuries.

[KungFuPanda]

dp

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by KungFuPanda

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, QueenCat said:

That said, she was running. We can hardly ban kids from running outside during recess...

I’ve witnessed a number of parents attempt to ban their kids from it at the park.   Along with picking up sticks or rocks.  
 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I'm not sure whether or not today's kid's have the privilege of burning or cutting themselves on a metal slide is nearly as detrimental to their risk taking as the amount of screen time they get.  Even the kids whose parents would say are "always outside" probably aren't getting out as much as those Gen X kids did.  What you do for 30 minutes at recess can't really compare to how you're spending your free time.  The stuff we climbed outside of school may have had a much bigger influence on our comfort with heights than those edgy 80s play structures.

[Heartstrings]

Just now, KungFuPanda said:

I'm not sure whether or not today's kid's have the privilege of burning or cutting themselves on a metal slide is nearly as detrimental to their risk taking as the amount of screen time they get.  Even the kids whose parents would say are "always outside" probably aren't getting out as much as those Gen X kids did.  What you do for 30 minutes at recess can't really compare to how you're spending your free time.  The stuff we climbed outside of school may have had a much bigger influence on our comfort with heights than those edgy 80s play structures.

I think the anxiety about outside that parents have leads directly to the screen time.  It’s much “safer” to stick the kid in front of a tablet, while requiring proper sitting on the couch of course.   

[catz]

Meh I don't see modern playgrounds as the root of helicopter parenting by any stretch.  And I am gen X and played on all manner of wacky playground.  I think I got more out of being allowed to go places on my own and navigate situations if we're talking about learning risk management.  I mean I let my teens take public transit in a city regularly, some people think that is nuts. We have some beautiful playgrounds with options for big kids too.  We also have hiking trails, rock scrambling, lake and creek swimming and kayaking, trees to climb, etc.  Outdoor play and learning risk management isn't limited to playgrounds.  I especially don't blame schools for wanting safe equipment that works for a wide variety of ages.  My kids still had freinds that made regular visits to the ER because they tended to do the highest risk thing possible until they reached teen years.  

I watched a kid crack their head wide open falling off an old fashioned teeter totter when I was middle school age requiring an ambulance.   There were kids falling off that thing all the time.  Can't get excited about that being common place. 

Home Again's point on health care in this country is excellent.

[ScoutTN]

Kids at one local private school are not allowed to jump off swings, to spin on the swings, etc. Seems silly to me. Let the kids play.

[Heartstrings]

7 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

We cannot have a discussion about the need to take risks without first addressing the giant elephant in the room: the ER is prohibitively expensive for many families and urgent care is just as appalling.  If finances mean that medical care needs to be reserved for mundane occurrences and emergencies, parents will always minimize the risk from common areas, like playgrounds.

Lets do proper medicare for all in this country, then do risk assessments that include potential injuries.

I agree with this.  Also, that lower income parents who are on Medicaid and therefore aren’t worried about medical bills, are afraid of a judgy doctor deciding to call CPS on them for neglect. 

[Xahm]

11 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I work in a large church. A parent or teen sibling, with the correct numbered tag, picks up children infants-4th grade. No kid ever leaves a children’s ministry event or program on his or her own recognizance. This is basic and has been for decades.

Two deep leadership and buddy system in scouting are also good, basic, long-standing safety measures. Bad things can happen when these are ignored.

My husband and I have both been asked to volunteer in ways that keep us from being able to pick up our kids in a timely fashion, and they are fully capable of walking to us. That's an example of a rule that, at least in our medium size church, makes no sense and doesn't increase safety. 

I like two deep leadership and the buddy system. I like simple rules like "at scouts we can throw things TO people but not AT them." I dislike when people misread the rules and say, "the rules say there must always be two adults, so there really have to be four adults so that if one adult goes to the bathroom, they take a buddy to avoid being alone and two adults are still with the kids" or"there's no way to always have 2 adults with kids at summer camp, so let's just ignore that rule." Or "new BSA rules don't let you play Frisbee because you are throwing things at each other, so the rules are dumb and should be ignored."

[KungFuPanda]

I wanted to add that this is just ONE of the playgrounds at our newest park.  They're not even showing he parkour course here.  It's much better than what we had as kids.  This video doesn't even do a great job at showing you how HIGH some of those slides are. This is as easy walk from my house.  I can't wait to take my grandson.  There's even one section he's already old enough for.

Blandair Park

[Ginevra]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

Even with the safer playgrounds I see plenty of parents running around completely stressed about kids doing perfectly safe age appropriate things like climbing stairs or ladders.  As a broader society we have lost all sense of what is ok for a child to do physically.   I think it’s helicopter parenting matched with a weird feeling of competition.  It’s not good enough to be safe “enough”, you have to be the safest parent, ever, even if it means hyperventilating over a 4 year old climbing a 3 step ladder up to a 3 foot slide.  So many parents are so anxious and that anxiety can’t be healthy for the children.  

100%. 
 

I had one extremely agile kid who was determined to make playgrounds as challenging as they could possibly be. He would climb over the outside of structures, giving moms everywhere heart attacks. There would almost always be some mom saying, “Whose little kid is climbing way up there???” And I would say with a chuckle, “He’s mine; it’s fine.” They definitely thought I was nuts. 

[Ginevra]

21 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I wanted to add that this is just ONE of the playgrounds at our newest park.  They're not even showing he parkour course here.  It's much better than what we had as kids.  This video doesn't even do a great job at showing you how HIGH some of those slides are. This is as easy walk from my house.  I can't wait to take my grandson.  There's even one section he's already old enough for.

Blandair Park

That is an extremely nice park. My youngest had baseball over there. 

[rebcoola]

The playgrounds are fine their are fun ones and boring ones.  But plenty have stuff to imagine kids imagination. Its the level of risk we find acceptable its simply become almost none.

My middle child was extremely small and extremely athletic, and adhd  drove other parents out of their mind at the park, oh well.  I just shrugged  y shoulders and said they were fine and let them climb and whatever they wanted. 

[Terabith]

I definitely don't think modern playgrounds are the root of helicopter parenting, and I am 100% in favor of safe playground standards.  However, I also 100% think that one of the consequences of modern playground standards (for the vast majority of playgrounds) is that they are boring and too easy.  Children lose interest in the standard set up by the time they are old enough for kindergarten because frankly, modern playgrounds are boring.  Now, one can absolutely have both high playground safety standards and also have interesting, challenging playgrounds that appeal to older kids and encourage safe risk taking.  But by and large, we don't.  And it's very much to our children's detriment.  

My preschool is held at a church, and the playground is old.  It contained, up until Monday, an old fashioned jungle gym.  It was awesome.  We banned kids under 5 from using the monkey bars on it because one child broke an arm (which I honestly think was a mistake, because I have seen a handful of kids as young as 3 who mastered those monkey bars and by and large kids are good at choosing challenges for themselves that are safe if adults don't put them into situations they can't get into by themselves).  But there were some lower bars that even the 2 year olds could swing on and do tricks on, and it was so incredibly good for their upper body strength, core strength, built important pre-writing muscles, and provided them with vestibular and proprioceptive input that the rest of the playground really does not provide.  Unfortunately, I think, we got a grant for a new playground, and we'll be getting a new and very boring playground with no loose parts and no cool jungle gym.  It will be the same manufactured brick that every park has and that offers no challenges to kids over the age of about four and that does not offer the opportunity for interesting sensory input.  

Germany and the rest of Europe does a very good job of both having both safe playgrounds that also provide interest and challenge and excitement and encourage kids to figure out what their personal limits are and challenge them in appropriate ways.  I so, so wish we would take a page from them.  

[rebcoola]

Banning kids  from playing on something because 1 fell and broke a bone is ridiculous.  

[SKL]

I would add that some of the equipment intended to be "safe" is actually not safe.  For example, I read that kids have more injuries from those twisty plastic slides than they had from straight ones.  There have also been injuries from so-called "safe" surfaces, that would not have happened on most traditional surfaces.

Another thing I haven't seen discussed elsewhere - the value of swinging (pumping oneself) in creating core body strength, which is needed for kids to sit still in school.  (Swings have been removed from school and preschool playgrounds around here.)

There should be a happy medium somewhere.  I don't want our kids to bust their skulls, but a few scrapes and bruises and even the occasional bone injury are worth the benefits of the play experience.

Edited November 29, 2023 by SKL

[Terabith]

I also think that it is very, very important for kids' growth and development for them to be allowed to be alone, to navigate situations, and to travel.  My mom has a book called something like Your Five Year Old, that talked about kindergarten readiness in terms of a five year old being able to independently walk to a favorite destination up to eight blocks away.  Today, even if that five year old were ten, there's a good chance the parents would be arrested for child neglect.  The boundaries of children's worlds have shrunk to almost nothing.  They can barely be allowed outside of their yard.  I never worried about my kids' safety doing things like walking to the nearby park (not even two blocks away) in elementary school, but I worried CONSTANTLY about having CPS called on me for allowing them to do things like that.  And I also found that my kids were very, very reluctant to do things like that that were completely age appropriate because no other children were doing them.  They felt like they were breaking SOCIETY'S rules if they walked alone from the parking lot into the grocery store to buy a carton of milk at age eight.  And while they would, with a ton of prodding, do things like that if I insisted, they did, in fact, get lots of "concerned" looks and people asking them where their parents were and such.  

I do think that kids who live in big cities have a bit more freedom of navigation than suburban kids do.  But my kids have made it to adulthood, in my opinion and in spite of my best efforts to give them opportunities to exercise their own judgment and navigate their world and do things on their own and have real responsibilities for people and things that matter, without the skills and confidence to really handle adulthood.  They have never babysat.  Nobody hires 12 year old babysitters these days.  Even 16 year old babysitters are frowned upon by most of the mommy set.  (Who, in another thing that drives me nuts, seem to be perpetually tipsy on the wine that they claim is required to interact with their children in the most basic manner.) 

Kids need to be trusted as competent human beings and be given the opportunity to both practice skills in a supervised and scaffolded way, but then also have the opportunity to practice things alone or in the company of each other, to exercise their own judgment and not always call an adult to ask their opinion.  (Or more likely text.  Calling on the phone is a skill few teens seem to have, my own included.) 

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

Banning kids  from playing on something because 1 fell and broke a bone is ridiculous.  

I 100% agree, but I was not consulted on that rule.  

We also have some ridiculous rules about not allowing kids to jump off swings, twist the swings (why ever not?), go up the slide (don't even get me started), or play on the outside of the equipment.  

When I'm supervising kids on the playground, I have "Miss Terabith's Rules, which are probably not the same rules you need to follow with other teachers," that specifically allow going up the slides as long as everyone is going in the same direction, and do allow them to twist swings (but not stand on them, because it isn't good for the swings), and does allow them to climb on the outside of the equipment.

I feel strongly that adults should not micromanage children's play and that children are the best judges of what they themselves are capable of.  I will not lift a child to help them into a situation that they cannot get into independently (so I won't lift kids up to bars they can't reach if they can't climb there on their own), but I will allow them to do what they feel they can do.  And I will coach nervous kids on things like climbing ladders (put your feet here, now reach here with your hand - a lot of 2 year olds are capable of doing things if they've been taught but can't figure it out independently), but I won't help them physically except to catch them if they fall, but I don't hover.  

I do think that we need to have rigorous standards for things like depth of mulch or whatever ground covering and also for things like major equipment being installed correctly.  We had a couple of horrific injuries when I was a child from things like an entire swingset falling over.  That one resulted in a major head injury, and it was completely preventable if the structure had been fastened to the ground in an appropriate way.

[Clemsondana]

I have no problem with rules around things that the kids never perceive.  They don't know how deep the sand or mulch is under what they are playing on.  Putting swings over concrete would be dumb.  I also like that there are some inclusive structures at playgrounds.  But, from what I've seen, most playgrounds are very safe, and many kids show little interest in playing on them after age 6-7.  We have a park near us that my kids liked when they were under 5.  As they got older we'd still go occasionally, but other than the slide and swings (both old, holdovers from the 80s) and a short zip line, they didn't play on anything.  During their elementary years, they'd sometimes ask to go and then after 10 minutes look around with an 'I'm not sure why I thought this would be fun' expression.  It's so different from my childhood, where we were happy to use playground equipment in not-what-it-was-designed-for ways through middle school.  But, other than the swings, there's nothing that a middle schooler could do at this park, and at many parks the middle schoolers couldn't even swing because the frame is so short that an adult barely moves.  There aren't any monkey bars to play on, so kids don't learn to do a flip.  I found an old bar, a few feet off the ground, on an old structure at a church playground and showed my kids how to do a flip and they were amazed.  I doubt most of their friends know how even though many of them spend a lot of time outside.  And, for the record, those are more painful when you weigh more than a young teen.  🙂  

My kids aren't the 'get home to get on a screen' type - at those ages we'd easily spend a 1/2 day or longer at a museum or zoo.  But, 'walking on a bridge that swings a few inches' doesn't have a lot of excitement for a 7 year old.  Sometimes groups of kids play together, but then the equipment is incidental because they are really playing tag or hide and seek.  

[KungFuPanda]

I wonder how divisive walking up the slide is.  If you're the only one at the playground, sure, have at it.  If there are other kits at the top who have waited their turn and Freddie Free Range turns around and goes up the slide the kid at the top has a bit of a dilemma on their hands.   They don't want to be a jerk and plow into the kid and they don't want him climbing over them at the top?  Are they supposed to sit there all day while one kid slides down and walks up repeatedly?  All the while his mother is gazing upon him and thinking how out-of-the box her boys is and how stifled the other kids must be.

[Ananda]

I think it is very important for children's play areas to be well maintained.  Most of my playground injuries were from sharp or pinchy places on old worn equipment.  I also support the softer playground substrates that are popular now.  But I agree with the general premise: children need to take risks, and problem solve. 

I don't know what to do about parents/adults differing comfort levels with risk.  Like I am not worried about stranger abduction, but I am super careful with car safety.  If I have to grit my teeth when you strap your toddler in wearing a huge snowsuit, you have to keep quiet when I let mine wander around the toy department in Target.  (We had an incident with a worried lady, and my 8 year old last weekend and I'm still salty).  If an adult thinks a child is truly in danger I do want them to protect them.  Stop the toddler from running out in the street, please.  But on the other hand children and their parents are so often chastised when they haven't done anything wrong.  And I do worry about the whole reporting me to CPS angle.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

1 hour ago, QueenCat said:

The worst playground injury when I was subbing in the school clinic was a child running headfirst into a picnic table. I could

see her scalp. Once the ambulance took her, I puked. She was okay, but it took a while to fully recover.

 

That said, she was running. We can hardly ban kids from running outside during recess... 

oh my kids last public school did. No running at recess. However, the playground was still on a concrete pad so it sort of made sense.

That rule was actually a big reason we started homeschooling my then second grader.  He needs to run and move his body frequently during the day in order to focus at all on academics. Or, really, anything.

Anyone else have those glorious castle playgrounds? I loved those even into mid teen years.

[SKL]

2 hours ago, QueenCat said:

The worst playground injury when I was subbing in the school clinic was a child running headfirst into a picnic table. I could

see her scalp. Once the ambulance took her, I puked. She was okay, but it took a while to fully recover.

 

That said, she was running. We can hardly ban kids from running outside during recess... 

I think my kids' worst playground injury was also due to plain old running.  My kid's front teeth collided with another kid's forehead.  It was bloody.  That kid needed stitches and my kid had very loose teeth for a while (they did heal eventually).  Obviously kids are going to run.  If I catch anyone saying "don't run" on a playground, I'm gonna say something about that.

Our only ER visit prior to age 15 was from 3yo busting her head on a bench in the pool locker room.  (Floor was carpeted, so I don't know what caused the fall.)  Stitches and a check for a concussion.  These are ordinary childhood experiences.

Edited November 29, 2023 by SKL

[Heartstrings]

18 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I wonder how divisive walking up the slide is.  If you're the only one at the playground, sure, have at it.  If there are other kits at the top who have waited their turn and Freddie Free Range turns around and goes up the slide the kid at the top has a bit of a dilemma on their hands.   They don't want to be a jerk and plow into the kid and they don't want him climbing over them at the top?  Are they supposed to sit there all day while one kid slides down and walks up repeatedly?  All the while his mother is gazing upon him and thinking how out-of-the box her boys is and how stifled the other kids must be.

I let my kids go up the slide if no one else is wanting a turn.  If they are half way up and notice a kid at the top they turn around and slide back down.  Usually the slides are fairly empty so it’s not a huge problem.  I see no reason to have a blanket rule against going up. I think going up is just as valid as going down.   Usually the kids have no problem with this, it’s the occasional parent who has decided that their rules are, or should be, universal who complains.  

[Bootsie]

I teach the use of leverage in business to college students--I try to talk about see-saws as an illustration and many of my college students have never been on a teeter-totter.  

It really stuck in my head when my kids were in pre-school and a medical professional talked to the group about "safety" and "health", commenting on short-run versus long-run health issues.  Her concern was that kids were discouraged from running, climbing, jumping, etc. to protect them from getting hurt but the long-run impact of increased risk of diabetes, obesity, weak muscle development, etc. was a much greater risk.