How long do you tolerate a one-way friendship?

[Ginevra]

You know what I mean: the friend is always happy to get together for coffee/go for a walk together/see a show…so long as *you* initiate. The one who does respond when you text (or, eventually) but pretty much never just send you one. 
 

I know introverts often have trouble with reaching out (I *am* one) and I’m not talking about someone who has suffered an extraordinary disruption and so, can be expected to retreat for a while, maybe even years. 
 

How long do you go on before you just say, “Well, let’s just see if she will ever contact me herself or if we will simply become non-friends because *I* do nothing”? 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Quill
Fix a stupid autocorrect

[Guest]

That’s a tough one. It hurts when a friend drops the friendship.

I have a friendship which felt more one-sided for awhile. (My situation is different from yours because in my case, we no longer live in the same city.)  It got to the point that I decided to make 2 more attempts to connect, but if I didn’t get a response after those two attempts, I was going to stop investing in the relationship. That doesn’t mean I completely write her off.  I still send an occasional text message from time to time if I see something that might be of interest to her.  I sent a gift last year, and a card this year on her birthday. But I don’t expect anything back.(Sometimes she will give a thumbs up emoji in response to a text, or send a photo, often times there is no response. She never acknowledged the birthday gift or cards).  I decided I can love her without needing to have that care reciprocated. But I had to be careful to work it out in my own mind /heart so that I‘m not acting out of resent, only out of love. When I reach out, I’m celebrating her for the sake of who she was to me in the past.

I’m an introvert, for what it’s worth. She is an extrovert. I figure she’s living her new best life, and it doesn’t have space for me. That hurt at first but I’m ok with it now.

ETA: “I’m ok with it now,” but it did hurt to type that out!! 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by WTM

[easypeasy]

My answer would solely depend on how much I enjoyed my time with this person. If the visits energized me and the other person seems to have a jolly time as well, I’d just continue the routine. If I felt like the visits drained me, or felt like a therapy session for the other person… I would back away and wait until they reached out. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Does she have anxiety? Does she seem to enjoy the time with you? 

[Clarita]

47 minutes ago, Quill said:

How long do you go on before you just say, “Well, let’s just see if she will ever contact me herself or if we will simply become non-friends because *I* do nothing”? 

I mean if I like coffee/go for a walk together/see a show with her, then indefinitely. I'd treat her like I treat Netflix, I fire up Netflix when I want to see a show it's not like Netflix ever turns itself on to invite me to watch a show. 

If I don't even enjoy the time I spend with her then I stop trying immediately.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Does she have anxiety? Does she seem to enjoy the time with you? 

Possibly. She does seem to enjoy time with me but it has been *a while* since she initiated any  activity  with me. Some of this was because of COVID, but we also took different positions about Covid practices so that may have dampened her enthusiasm for me. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited March 29, 2023 by Quill

[Katy]

With the Covid information, I’d stop considering her a current friend & consider her either an old friend or acquaintance, depending on how close you used to be. 

I do have old friends who fall right back into feeling close even if we haven’t talked for years, but all of those that took opposite views on Trump or Covid have cooled. I don’t have the bandwidth for that. 

[wintermom]

If you enjoy the friend, then just keep reaching out. I'm not the best at organizing get-togethers, but I'll try to keep the lines of communication open and send out emails, or texts.

Your thread just prompted me to reply to a couple Christmas greeting emails I didn't do 3 months ago! 😨 Oops!! Sometimes the months just fly by and you lose track of the time.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

I mean if I like coffee/go for a walk together/see a show with her, then indefinitely. I'd treat her like I treat Netflix, I fire up Netflix when I want to see a show it's not like Netflix ever turns itself on to invite me to watch a show. 

If I don't even enjoy the time I spend with her then I stop trying immediately.

That’s pretty much brilliant!

[sassenach]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

You know what I mean: the friend is always happy to get together for coffee/go for a walk together/see a show…so long as *you* initiate. The one who does respond when you text (or, eventually) but pretty much never just send you one. 
 

I know introverts often have trouble with reaching out (I *am* one) and I’m not talking about someone who has suffered an extraordinary disruption and so, can be expected to retreat for a while, maybe even years. 
 

How long do you go on before you just say, “Well, let’s just see if she will ever contact me herself or if we will simply become non-friends because *I* do nothing”? 

I had a best friend when we lived in Florida and we kept in touch for many years, but at some point I realized that it was ALWAYS me that called her. So last year, I decided to wait and see. I texted her on her birthday but that was it. She texted me on my bday and Mother’s Day. Well she just texted me last week on the eve of a surgery she is having. That prompted a phone call. It has been about a year since we talked on the phone. Idk how I feel about it. I have a lot of friends that I consider close, but we only talk once or twice a year. I think the difference is the rest of them feel much more reciprocal. It is what it is. 

[teachermom2834]

Is the relationship completely one sided in other ways? When you get together does she just talk about herself or is she a good listener? I have friends that do the planning but then aren’t great company and vice versa. 
 

If she is otherwise a good friend maybe you can find a way to see past this. You don’t want to cut off your nose to spite your face if you really enjoy her but you are hung up on this point. Maybe there is a way to let that issue go. We all have issues and lots of us suck at one thing or another. 
 

But if you don’t otherwise enjoy her and it isn’t worth it to you to keep reaching out than that is a calculation you are justifying in making for sure. 
 

 

[ShepCarlin]

Yikes, I feel like this was written about me. I’m embarrassed to say I am often “that friend “. I’m just horrible about reaching out to do things. I keep in touch with a couple of good friends but my casual friends are the ones who ALWAYS reach out. I am quite the introvert-maybe she is too? It truly doesn’t cross my mind to go out and do things like coffee, lunch etc unless it’s brought up to me. I also have terrible bizarre food allergies that make eating out difficult. I do have anxiety too so that plays a part.

I am just so content to be home. I really do love seeing my friends. I just honestly don’t think actively about it.

I know it’s incredibly annoying to be the one who always reaches out but she may not realize it’s all on your end. Or she may and be fine with it. Speaking as an anxious, food allergy introvert-I think you should bring it up with her. She might be blushing as bad as I am now and either offer an explanation or try to reciprocate.

[SKL]

Honestly, you keep contacting her as long as you keep enjoying the results.  You have no obligation to continue if it isn't giving you anything.  You also have no obligation to stop just because the effort isn't equal on both sides.

I will say that I get a massive guilt trip every time I try to do anything personal.  It's one thing if I get invited, it's viewed differently if I myself suggest a personal frolic with a friend.  Honestly it never happens and I have lost most of the friends I had before kids.

People have their reasons for not reaching out.  If you enjoy each other's company, I feel it doesn't matter who initiates things.

[Not_a_Number]

That would make me feel needy. I'd probably be open with the other person about how it made me feel before dropping them or anything like that, though. There are things that someone could say that aren't defensive and would make me feel like they wanted to see me just as much as I wanted to see them, just couldn't get it together to initiate. 

If someone was defensive, though, that would be a bad sign for me. 

[Tap]

Ummm well, if I didn’t have friends like this, I wouldn’t have friends. Lol

 

Sometimes it makes me feel a bit sad, but then I figure if they didn’t want to hang out, they wouldn’t bother. So, I just keep inviting. I have about 5 friends like this. I invite each out for dinner ever 2 to 3 months (one a bit more frequent) but when we go out, we chat for 2 to 3 hours. I figure if they didn’t want to hang out, they would leave way earlier than that. If someone wasn’t responding, seemed curt, cancelled plan’s often etc, I would drop it and figure the relationship had ran its course. 
 

Especially when I was younger….There were friends, I let go, due to this. Then I realized that I let their inability to invite, be what killed our relationship. I realized, they were busy and maybe struggled with feeling vulnerable (hard to ask, if someone feels like they might be rejected). I decided to go with the actions speak louder than words. If they genuinely seem to enjoy our nights out, I don’t let their inability to initiate, to ruin a good thing. 

 

I actually just reached out to a lost friend and I am super happy I did. We had a great chat and at the end of the visit, she hugged me and said she loved me, and how much she had missed our friendship. It was nice to have the validation ❤️and we already are working to get together again.

[Melissa Louise]

Just another perspective for you:

I initiate 'doing things' less than my friends do with me, even though I am always happy to do thing they suggest.

The reason why has nothing to do with me not wanting to spend time with them - it's a complex fear of rejection coupled with not wanting to burden them with any requests.  I want to spare them saying 'no', for themselves, but also for me.

I'm not saying this is functional - I'm definitely trying to change it - but lop-sided initiation of activities doesn't always reflect lack of care/interest in the other person.

Does she otherwise show interest in you? I am good at keeping in touch, and am otherwise a good friend, just not with the whole 'hey, let's go out and do X' thing.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Does she otherwise show interest in you? I am good at keeping in touch, and am otherwise a good friend, just not with the whole 'hey, let's go out and do X' thing.

Yes, but it’s more superficial. Like, say, happy to talk for hours about a great series on Netflix, but let’s not discuss cancer/debt/kids making bad choices/spouse being a douchebag…But your post combined with Tap’s does make me think it could be a “her” thing and is not about the friendship at all. 

[Indigo Blue]

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

I initiate 'doing things' less than my friends do with me, even though I am always happy to do thing they suggest.

The reason why has nothing to do with me not wanting to spend time with them - it's a complex fear of rejection coupled with not wanting to burden them with any requests.  I want to spare them saying 'no', for themselves, but also for me.

This. 
 

It’s a combination of being an introvert and being deeply hurt over and over by many people. I wish it weren’t this way, but it is. 
 

Probably your friend isn’t like me, though, and just for whatever reason is bad at initiating. If she is fun to be with and she doesn’t just talk about herself when she’s with you (she seems to care and is interested in you), I probably would not write her off. 
 

 

[Indigo Blue]

57 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes, but it’s more superficial. Like, say, happy to talk for hours about a great series on Netflix, but let’s not discuss cancer/debt/kids making bad choices/spouse being a douchebag…But your post combined with Tap’s does make me think it could be a “her” thing and is not about the friendship at all. 

I love to talk deep stuff. I’ve found most people don’t. And most times it’s because they can’t be bothered to listen. I listen to them, but it’s so tiring to be around people who blather on about themselves to the point I end up just giving up and letting them do all the talking. In fact, I don’t expect to have anyone listen or care about what I have to say.
 

That’s why I post here. It’s different here. Deep talk. Good advice. And I can give my advice and “listen” to others and try to be helpful in return. 
 

ETA: I think that in time it would become apparent whether she is the type of person who has her own dysfunctional reasons for being bad at initiating or whether she, for whatever reason, doesn’t value the friendship enough to initiate. If you, in time, come to feel she wants to let the friendship slowly die, then there you go. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Indigo Blue

[*Jessica*]

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Just another perspective for you:

I initiate 'doing things' less than my friends do with me, even though I am always happy to do thing they suggest.

The reason why has nothing to do with me not wanting to spend time with them - it's a complex fear of rejection coupled with not wanting to burden them with any requests.  I want to spare them saying 'no', for themselves, but also for me.

I'm not saying this is functional - I'm definitely trying to change it - but lop-sided initiation of activities doesn't always reflect lack of care/interest in the other person.

This.  This is me exactly.

But I don’t stick to superficial topics; that does sound more like someone who doesn’t consider you a good friend but an acquaintance they enjoy spending time with but wouldn’t miss terribly if you disappeared from their life. 😞

[SKL]

Like if you had a car and she didn't, you'd do all the driving and hopefully not resent it.

If your mind is tit-for-tatting it, it may just not be a valuable friendship for you.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

Like if you had a car and she didn't, you'd do all the driving and hopefully not resent it.

If your mind is tit-for-tatting it, it may just not be a valuable friendship for you.

It’s not tit for tat; it’s that everybody wants to feel valued and loved. Of course this is my own insecurities, but yes, I do soon wonder if the person actually cares about me or if they can take or leave me. I’m not that interested in friendships if it’s the later. But if it’s just: we all have our issues and this is hers, then okay. I can live with that. But if she would be fine with the end of friendship if I did not bother to connect, then that’s deadwood I don’t need. 

[kirstenhill]

It's so hard...I've been on both sides of this.  I'm not a big initiator in friendships...I just have so much going on in my household and my other commitments, that it's super easy to just let time go by and forget that I have friends I haven't been in touch with in a while.  I like how some friends handle this who always insist on pulling out our calendars and penciling something in, even it's two months from now, for our next get together.  

I had a friend in my previous city who I always had to initiate with...I really loved her perspectives and found spending time with her refreshing, so even though I knew she considered other friends to be "closer" (or at least, from what I could observe based on who I think she did initiate with), so I was willing to be the one asking to get together to not lose touch.

In one friendship right now, I have a friend who is complaining to me that she always initiates with me...and in this relationship, I don't really enjoy the friend all that much...We got to know each other when we were both involved in a particular group, and she was going through a bit of a rough patch.  Honestly, I was being kind and trying to support her during a time she had very little support (she's single, estranged from family at the time).  We really don't have that much in common, especially now that we no longer have "in common" the activity we were both doing at the time.  I'm too nice to tell her, "I'm not that interested in being friends".   Eventually, maybe I'll trying and distance myself a bit more.  🤷‍♀️

[matrips]

I see my daughter in this, and I’ve been trying to coach her on initiating.  It does not come natural at all.  She loves when friends invite her to things, or to talk, but is not confident enough perhaps to do the inviting.  Or to just reach out without a ‘purpose’ in mind.  
Her best friend right now is one I kind of pushed her to initiate contact with last summer, so she sees the value and how it works.  
It just is not her personality though. She’s a good friend to those that include her, but she’s definitely not a social butterfly type comfortable with reaching out. I’m trying to help her work on this before college because many people would view her as you perhaps do your friend.  And she’s a super sweet kid who loves her friends, but is not socially adept. 

so if if isn’t a hardship, I would say to keep initiating with your friend.  She may really really appreciate it as she shows by accepting your offers.  Maybe you can say - hey I’d love it if you gave me a call next week- and see if that direct prompt helps. 

[Soror]

I've had more than one friend like this. I always think of the phrase, usually used IRT romantic relationships, 's/he's just not that into you.' I'm a talker and an organizer, so it doesn't surprise me that I'm the one that usually initiates more but I need some sign from the other party they want to hang out with me. I remember one particular friend that I asked 'hey can you be the one that calls me some of the time?' The answer in a roundabout way was no, they would not call me at all, ever. Oddly to me, they would still act all excited to see me years later but couldn't bother to call me at all even when I asked and told them how much it hurt me. I didn't expect 50/50 but any effort at all. After they told me they couldn't/wouldn't do any of the contacting I distanced myself. It was too painful.

It sounds to me that you don't really enjoy this friendship anymore and there's a good chance they don't either. I'd just let it go and see what happens. Do they care enough to reach out or do you actually miss the contact? 

I get that people have anxiety but it also causes me anxiety when friendships are all up to me. I don't want to be constantly worried if someone actually likes me and wants to spend time with me. 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Soror

[Tap]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes, but it’s more superficial. Like, say, happy to talk for hours about a great series on Netflix, but let’s not discuss cancer/debt/kids making bad choices/spouse being a douchebag…But your post combined with Tap’s does make me think it could be a “her” thing and is not about the friendship at all. 

Maybe watch/listen to some of Brene Brown's talks about vulnerability and see if some of it rings true for her. Some people are too afraid to talk about personal lives. Her talks aren't a how to  on solving it, just discussing shame, vulnerability and often courage.

[Pam in CT]

re multiple dimensions of reciprocity

14 hours ago, Clarita said:

I mean if I like coffee/go for a walk together/see a show with her, then indefinitely. I'd treat her like I treat Netflix, I fire up Netflix when I want to see a show it's not like Netflix ever turns itself on to invite me to watch a show. 

If I don't even enjoy the time I spend with her then I stop trying immediately.

I start here.

I mean, "reciprocity" is not merely about who initiates (think sex, lol).  If a person in my life listens well, makes me laugh, makes me think, enjoys things I enjoy, helps me wrestle though hard issues when I need that and doesn't pry on stuff I signal I'm not talking about, keeps confidences when I ask for that -- leaves me glad we spent time together after we've spent time together... well, for me, all of that factors into "reciprocity."  Who initiates is only one dimension, for me not the most important one.

 

I figure people who don't initiate are probably carrying either some of the anxiety baggage pp have mentioned, or some executive functioning/ time management baggage.  (One of my launching-adult kids pretty much literally can't project sufficiently into the future to be able to plan for an upcoming ball game or concert or theater, even though kid *enjoys* such things... but kid is immensely grateful when friends do the planning / inviting / reminding.  It's definitely not reciprocal and it's an area of development.  BUT IT IS NOT PERSONAL; it's kid's baggage not kid's valuation of the relationships.)

If the *other dimensions* of the friendship are reciprocal, I don't overweight initiation.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Pam in CT
omitted word

[SKL]

I do think that you will be able to tell when the other person isn't interested.  The other person will figure out a way to either politely or impolitely step away.

[happi duck]

I'm glad to see people sticking up for those of us who "friend" differently.

These threads come up from time to time and they always make me sad to realize that I've probably been dumped for "friending" "wrong".

I love to send cards in the mail.  Not everyone sends mail in return.  I would never consider it a one side friendship because I'm the one who always sends letters.

Your friend does friendship differently.  Imo, if the friendship ends it's a choice on your part and shouldn't be blamed on your friend not instigating stuff.  (You do get to choose who you spend time with)

[SquirrellyMama]

10 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Just another perspective for you:

I initiate 'doing things' less than my friends do with me, even though I am always happy to do thing they suggest.

The reason why has nothing to do with me not wanting to spend time with them - it's a complex fear of rejection coupled with not wanting to burden them with any requests.  I want to spare them saying 'no', for themselves, but also for me.

I'm not saying this is functional - I'm definitely trying to change it - but lop-sided initiation of activities doesn't always reflect lack of care/interest in the other person.

 

Oh my gosh, there are other people like me. Yes 100 times to the bolded!

[Arcadia]

My friends who have fixed schedules tend to let those of us with ever changing schedules to initiate. They basically would text and say “tell me when you are free”. I also have friends who love a crowd and would just organize impromptu gatherings and whoever can make it comes. 

For some of us, window shopping (with or without friends) is therapeutic because it lets us have me time away from personal and family issues. Its just like when my teens and I do volunteering work, we don’t talk personal stuff other than maybe things like hurting our backs so we temporarily can’t help with heavy loads. So if my friends don’t want to talk about personal stuff, I won’t automatically assume insincerity. On the other extreme, my in-laws would listen to anyone’s personal stuff and blab to anyone who would listen. 

[Melissa Louise]

6 hours ago, Quill said:

It’s not tit for tat; it’s that everybody wants to feel valued and loved. Of course this is my own insecurities, but yes, I do soon wonder if the person actually cares about me or if they can take or leave me. I’m not that interested in friendships if it’s the later. But if it’s just: we all have our issues and this is hers, then okay. I can live with that. But if she would be fine with the end of friendship if I did not bother to connect, then that’s deadwood I don’t need. 

I think this is really different from the issue of initiating activities.

Activities and connection seem like two different things to me.

Does she text or message you sometimes just to say hi? Or to check in when you've been unwell? Send links or articles she thinks you might be interested in? Show that she remembers from one meet-up to the next what's been going on with you? Congratulate you when you have achieved? Does she have your back when you're having a rough time? Give thoughtful gifts? Show willing to be serious and/or silly?

Those are the sorts of things that indicate a friendship that isn't dead wood, imo.

If she's 'just' a person you have a pleasant time with, when you initiate, and you value having someone to have this type of pleasant time with, maybe she's more of a specific-purposes friend. You call X when you feel like doing Y.

If it's not pleasant and/or you don't value that way to spend your time, then I guess that's dead wood territory.

~

If she's someone you want to keep as a friend, why don't you initiate (I know!) a conversation about it. "Hey, I notice that I am always the one to call you and organize to meet up. What's up with that?"

 

 

 

[Indigo Blue]

4 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Oh my gosh, there are other people like me. Yes 100 times to the bolded!

Same! You’re not alone.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

If she's 'just' a person you have a pleasant time with, when you initiate, and you value having someone to have this type of pleasant time with, maybe she's more of a specific-purposes friend. You call X when you feel like doing Y.

It’s basically this. She’s my “these interests” friend more than anything else. She wasn’t involved when I had cancer, for instance; she was one of those “never got around to it” people who didn’t involve herself much with my cancer. I don’t remember the last time she texted just to say hey, unless I had done so first. 
 

I do like her, though. Thinking about not having her as my “we do these things together” friend is sad to contemplate. I guess I just wish she stepped my way once in a while and it wasn’t always me.

[Not_a_Number]

I think a good thought experiment is… is this enough? If this is what our friendship is, does it provide more than it takes away? How does the fact that I don’t feel as valued as I’d like measure up against the fact that I enjoy her company?

I’ve been finding that if I get clarity on my own feelings, it’s much easier to figure out what to do. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[wintermom]

10 hours ago, happi duck said:

I'm glad to see people sticking up for those of us who "friend" differently.

These threads come up from time to time and they always make me sad to realize that I've probably been dumped for "friending" "wrong".

I love to send cards in the mail.  Not everyone sends mail in return.  I would never consider it a one side friendship because I'm the one who always sends letters.

Your friend does friendship differently.  Imo, if the friendship ends it's a choice on your part and shouldn't be blamed on your friend not instigating stuff.  (You do get to choose who you spend time with)

I love your perspective about sending cards!

I used to love sending cards and letters to friends and family. I'm now the one who hasn't sent a Christmas card in several years to any of my family or friends. Life just got so busy, and the price of stamps and cards was a factor. I feel guilty, but also thrilled that people still send me cards. One of these years I'll get back into sending cards, and it will be great to still have people to send them to! 

[Melissa Louise]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

It’s basically this. She’s my “these interests” friend more than anything else. She wasn’t involved when I had cancer, for instance; she was one of those “never got around to it” people who didn’t involve herself much with my cancer. I don’t remember the last time she texted just to say hey, unless I had done so first. 
 

I do like her, though. Thinking about not having her as my “we do these things together” friend is sad to contemplate. I guess I just wish she stepped my way once in a while and it wasn’t always me.

Could you raise it with her?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Could you raise it with her?

Maybe. She is somewhat unpredictable. I can see her being very defensive. 
 

 

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Maybe. She is somewhat unpredictable. I can see her being very defensive.

I would be defensive.  If you raised it with me, I'd think I've unintentionally been a jerk and now you think I'm a shit.  I would be 10x more reluctant to approach you.  I'd spend the rest of our time together wondering what I might be doing or not doing that is bothering you.

Edited March 31, 2023 by SKL

[SKL]

It's also possible that she thinks she's doing the right thing letting you initiate.  Perhaps her schedule is more flexible than yours, and letting you suggest times/places respects that.  Or maybe you just have more interesting ideas (about what to do together) than she has.

You could explore this without putting her on the defensive.  At your next lunch, maybe say "I love having lunch with you, but sometimes I wonder if I'm not giving you a fair chance to suggest what we do.  Plus, I'd love to try a place that you know of that I might not have tried before."  And then see what she says.

[Soror]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I would be defensive.  If you raised it with me, I'd think I've unintentionally been a jerk and now you think I'm a shit.  I would be 10x more reluctant to approach you.  I'd spend the rest of our time together wondering what I might be doing or not doing that is bothering you.

We are all assholes sometimes. We all screw up. We are oblivious or selfish or maybe sometimes downright mean (even if we don't mean to be).

I want friends that love me enough to forgive me when I screw up but also say something (nicely) when it is needed. 

If someone blows up or shuts down when you politely tell them your needs and POV then it wasn't a great friendship to begin with and I don't want that drama in my life. 

I expect that people have different needs and different schedules. I expect that they might have different communication methods. I can adjust accordingly. Oh, they just want to hang out once a year-- ok. Oh- they prefer to talk on the phone or they prefer text or they prefer to message. I'm flexible. I check and use almost all communication methods regularly. Oh, this person is really more of an acquaintance and not a friend- ie they keep everything surface level. Ok, well, I will do likewise.

 

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Soror said:

We are all assholes sometimes. We all screw up. We are oblivious or selfish or maybe sometimes downright mean (even if we don't mean to be).

I want friends that love me enough to forgive me when I screw up but also say something (nicely) when it is needed. 

If someone blows up or shuts down when you politely tell them your needs and POV then it wasn't a great friendship to begin with and I don't want that drama in my life. 

I expect that people have different needs and different schedules. I expect that they might have different communication methods. I can adjust accordingly. Oh, they just want to hang out once a year-- ok. Oh- they prefer to talk on the phone or they prefer text or they prefer to message. I'm flexible. I check and use almost all communication methods regularly. Oh, this person is really more of an acquaintance and not a friend- ie they keep everything surface level. Ok, well, I will do likewise.

I guess it depends on (a) how important this issue is, (b) how one articulates it, and (c) how strong the foundation of the friendship is otherwise.

Trust me, I have friends who have no problem telling me what I've done wrong ... frequently.  😛  I have enough invested in those friendships that those comments, while unpleasant, are bumps in the road compared to the overall relationship.  I have also had friends with whom that deep foundation never really formed.  Either of us would screw up a couple times and that was it.  And that's OK.  There's no point expending emotional energy on relationships that aren't important.  But if it turns out this friendship isn't that important, then IMO it would be kinder to let the relationship go (by just calling less) vs. tell the person off.

[Pam in CT]

re strong relationships can withstand bumps and differing POVs/needs and hard conversations

28 minutes ago, Soror said:

We are all assholes sometimes. We all screw up. We are oblivious or selfish or maybe sometimes downright mean (even if we don't mean to be).

I want friends that love me enough to forgive me when I screw up but also say something (nicely) when it is needed. 

If someone blows up or shuts down when you politely tell them your needs and POV then it wasn't a great friendship to begin with and I don't want that drama in my life. 

I expect that people have different needs and different schedules. I expect that they might have different communication methods. I can adjust accordingly. Oh, they just want to hang out once a year-- ok. Oh- they prefer to talk on the phone or they prefer text or they prefer to message. I'm flexible. I check and use almost all communication methods regularly. Oh, this person is really more of an acquaintance and not a friend- ie they keep everything surface level. Ok, well, I will do likewise.

This. 

And also this:

19 minutes ago, SKL said:

I guess it depends on (a) how important this issue is, (b) how one articulates it, and (c) how strong the foundation of the friendship is otherwise.

...  There's no point expending emotional energy on relationships that aren't important.  ...

... There are plenty of thinner-level relationships and friendships of convenience/ circumstances that often aren't particularly strong, and can't sustain a hard conversation in which one person expresses a need that the other person isn't able or willing to meet. That's OK too.

 

As I noted upthread, for me personally, who initiates activities isn't a dimension that looms especially large on whether a friendship feels "reciprocal" to me. So for me personally I wouldn't NEED a hard conversation for this particular thing.

But if initiation does loom large to @Quill ... hard conversations can be a useful tool in distinguishing wheat from chaff.  As with Dawn's thread of a few weeks ago, If a person responds to a friend's expression that "this [   whatever this is  ]  is important to me" with defensiveness or indignation or ghosting or whatever... that is data.

 

The older I get, the less willing I am to interact beyond baseline cordial civility with chaff.  That's OK.

[Lynn in al]

It depends.  If it's been a long time friend and things turn, I'd just give some time and send a "how are you" text in a few weeks or so and if no response, sad but I  let go.  Short term friend if no reciprocated response I let it go.

[wisdomandtreasures]

I don't. Not worth my time. 

[katilac]

How long do you tolerate a one-way friendship? 

For as long as I'm enjoying spending time with that person. 

I think it's fine to have different types and levels of friends. There's the work friends that you enjoy chatting to and eating lunch with, but it never goes beyond that. There's the close friends that you might get into deep discussions with, and/or really be able to count on them to be there for you in difficult times. And there's the friends you do certain activities with, and you have fun and enjoy it, but it may not go beyond that. 

When a work friend happily agrees to get lunch together when I suggest it, and I enjoy the company and conversation, I'm not going to quit doing it just because they never initiate it. Same thing for the certain-activities friends: when they happily agree to an evening of scrapbooking or wandering a used bookstore or going to Ren Faire, and I have fun with them and enjoy doing that activity with them, I'm not going to purposefully stop asking just because they don't ask in return. Small pleasures are so important in life, and small friendships can be, too. 

When you're really struggling to fit all the people into your life time-wise, sure, it makes sense to not prioritize a lower-level friendship, but it sounds like you do have the time for this activity and do enjoy having them along. If you have more fun with them than without them, why give that up? If it helps, reframe it as having a friendly acquaintance with a common interest.

[Not_a_Number]

There are different ways to bring it up with a friend, too. Yes, you can say "Hey, why don't you invite me out more?" and that'll almost certainly provoke defensiveness in anyone with a tendency that direction. 

But then you can also say "You know, I really love doing this! I'm a bit sad we don't get together more" and hear what she says. That can be pretty good data... someone can get flustered and start talking defensively about how they're very busy, someone can perk up and say "Hey, that'd be great! I'd love that!", someone can get kind of huffy and say "Oh, I thought you didn't have enough time for that!" 

I dunno. I think airing your feelings in a way that makes it about YOU can be pretty useful and usually will not ruin the friendship. 

[wintermom]

I wonder if this friend is simply happy with the pattern of behaviours that has been going on? You initiate an outing and she is very happy to join in. If you're an organizer, you have the benefit of choosing the activity and proposing the time. Yes, it requires more effort in that respect, but it also makes it easier for you to control what you do, when and where you do it, as well as how often. If this pattern has been going on for years, and you're only now realizing that it's annoying, then I'm guessing that something on your end has suddenly changed about how you're feeling. 

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything negative, just suggesting a little deeper reflection on how the two-way relationship has been and how long it's been this way.

[Pam in CT]

re "organizers" vs .... lemme call them "working on executive function"

30 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I wonder if this friend is simply happy with the pattern of behaviours that has been going on? You initiate an outing and she is very happy to join in. If you're an organizer, you have the benefit of choosing the activity and proposing the time. Yes, it requires more effort in that respect, but it also makes it easier for you to control what you do, when and where you do it, as well as how often. If this pattern has been going on for years, and you're only now realizing that it's annoying, then I'm guessing that something on your end has suddenly changed about how you're feeling. 

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything negative, just suggesting a little deeper reflection on how the two-way relationship has been and how long it's been this way.

I like the "some folks are organizers; other folks not so much" frame a lot.  It's neutral.  Some people really are GIFTED at looking into the future and spotting what performers are going to be playing at the local venues and rounding up a crowd who wants to get tickets. Or send out a group text proposing a meetup in the Irish bar for St Patricks Day, or whatever.  One such friend of mine routinely buys up tables at different Good Cause benefits, many months in advance, and then just texts around a couple weeks prior to fill the table -- it ends up being a sort of outsourced dinner party, with built in entertainment.  I always MEAN to do this myself, because as a strategy it hits on multiple cylinders (supporting Good Cause, pulling together people I've long thought would enjoy one another, minimizing personal hassle getting my house ready for company and figuring out all the food) but only very manage to get around to it. She is, literally, an organizer.

My kid who struggles with executive functioning OTOH has -- ALWAYS -- relied on family and friends to figure out any outing / performance / vacation / ANYTHING that's out more than a day or two in the future.  I'm pretty sure kid is a good friend in other dimensions - listening, keeping confidences, helping haul stuff when friend needs to move apartments, lending a hand to assemble IKEA furniture, etc.  But is NOT an organizer: that's a gap, not a strength.  Maybe call up *the morning of* the street fair and say I'm heading over, wanna meet me there?  but incapable, a week earlier, to register that next Sunday will ever actually arrive.

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

re "organizers" vs .... lemme call them "working on executive function"

I like the "some folks are organizers; other folks not so much" frame a lot.  It's neutral.  Some people really are GIFTED at looking into the future and spotting what performers are going to be playing at the local venues and rounding up a crowd who wants to get tickets. Or send out a group text proposing a meetup in the Irish bar for St Patricks Day, or whatever.  One such friend of mine routinely buys up tables at different Good Cause benefits, many months in advance, and then just texts around a couple weeks prior to fill the table -- it ends up being a sort of outsourced dinner party, with built in entertainment.  I always MEAN to do this myself, because as a strategy it hits on multiple cylinders (supporting Good Cause, pulling together people I've long thought would enjoy one another, minimizing personal hassle getting my house ready for company and figuring out all the food) but only very manage to get around to it. She is, literally, an organizer.

My kid who struggles with executive functioning OTOH has -- ALWAYS -- relied on family and friends to figure out any outing / performance / vacation / ANYTHING that's out more than a day or two in the future.  I'm pretty sure kid is a good friend in other dimensions - listening, keeping confidences, helping haul stuff when friend needs to move apartments, lending a hand to assemble IKEA furniture, etc.  But is NOT an organizer: that's a gap, not a strength.  Maybe call up *the morning of* the street fair and say I'm heading over, wanna meet me there?  but incapable, a week earlier, to register that next Sunday will ever actually arrive.

Sure, there are definitely people who struggle with organizing in advance. However, there are also people who can organize no problem, but choose to let others do it if they seem more excited/invested/quicker to make things happen. Once that pattern is well established, there's not necessarily a reason to change things. The "organizer" can simply stop organizing and let the chips fall. If others don't suddenly start doing the organizing it's not necessarily because the relationship was ever one-sided, it could simply be that they didn't realize there was any problem.

And maybe there wasn't a problem, until other things in the organizer's life added to the overall burden, making initiating get-togethers suddenly stressful.