Pardon me while I vent

[Emba]

(Probably JAWM) This is not a huge thing, but I need to vent. DD has a boyfriend. I find the boy annoying, but he is not a bad kid.  
 

Prom is coming up. DD is looking at dresses. Boy suggested either red or green. Not because they are his favorite color or anything, just because they’ll look good WITH HIM. 

Never mind that DD is taking him to HER prom. Never mind that blue or pink would look best ON HER, the actual wearer  of the dress. No, she should pick a dress so that she will be a flattering accessory for him. I have lots of words and they aren’t nice. I tried not to be too negative towards him, but I told her that she should pick what she really wants and give his opinion 0 consideration. Maybe I didn’t try hard enough not to be negative. 🫤

it just pisses me off because even the though yesterday she was looking at a pink dress and saying how much she liked it, now she’ll probably be picking a green one and insisting it’s what she really wanted all along, because DD has a really bad tendency to change what she wants depending on those around her. I just want her to do what she actually really wants to do. 

And this is, unlike my prom dresses ( which I picked with absolutely no consideration for what would look good with my date or what he preferred) a dress she’ll probably wear several times, only one of which bf will be attending with her. 

Seriously, I cannot wait until she realizes that they are not really well matched for each other and ends things. Because they really aren’t and it is SO HARD to bite my tongue.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Emba

[teachermom2834]

Oh man. Vent away. BTDT with the high school/prom stuff. My three boys were homeschooled but they dated and had girlfriends and attended their proms. Always drama. Two of the boys always had girlfriends who were not at all well suited to them. The third is a sophomore in college and still with his girlfriend from sophomore year in high school and they were always compatible. I am so glad to get them grown and out of this stage.

Still have to get my dd through. She is in 9th grade and was invited to the winter formal by a 10th grader. I didn’t anticipate her starting so early but here we go again. 
 

Hugs to you!!! 

[LaughingCat]

I have seen so many bad prom dresses -- I would not stress about it at all. 

I would tell her that cost needs to be a factor -- but I said that to my DD even without the weird boyfriend thing. 

FWIW my personal experience is that these kind of dresses are very often 1x wear.  

ETA -- but that comment by the boyfriend would really get my goat!

Edited February 8, 2023 by LaughingCat

[Katy]

I was so incredulous I read this to DH.  He said, "Would he like a corsage for his tux or for his wrist?  Who leads?" And several other remarks that were more off-color.  DH suggests someone mansplain to him exactly how this works.

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, Emba said:

(Probably JAWM) This is not a huge thing, but I need to vent. DD has a boyfriend. I find the boy annoying, but he is not a bad kid.  
 

Prom is coming up. DD is looking at dresses. Boy suggested either red or green. Not because they are his favorite color or anything, just because they’ll look good WITH HIM. 

Never mind that DD is taking him to HER prom. Never mind that blue or pink would look best ON HER, the actual wearer  of the dress. No, she should pick a dress so that she will be a flattering accessory for him. I have lots of words and they aren’t nice. I tried not to be too negative towards him, but I told her that she should pick what she really wants and give his opinion 0 consideration. Maybe I didn’t try hard enough not to be negative. 🫤

it just pisses me off because even the though yesterday she was looking at a pink dress and saying how much she liked it, now she’ll probably be picking a green one and insisting it’s what she really wanted all along, because DD has a really bad tendency to change what she wants depending on those around her. I just want her to do what she actually really wants to do. 

And this is, unlike my prom dresses ( which I picked with absolutely no consideration for what would look good with my date or what he preferred) a dress she’ll probably wear several times, only one of which bf will be attending with her. 

Seriously, I cannot wait until she realizes that they are not really well matched for each other and ends things. Because they really aren’t and it is SO HARD to bite my tongue.

I hope she gets the pink dress or at least one she likes. I have never heard about a high school boy caring so much about his date’s dress, but maybe things have changed since my time. How about he wears a green suit, and she gets the pink dress?!

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

. I have never heard about a high school boy caring so much about his date’s dress, but maybe things have changed since my time. 

They take photos and parents post on social media. My high school prom was majority going without a date but people did dress to look pretty on photos since it was a graduation prom. 
 

OP,

I would just set a budget and let your daughter choose. Or tell her you need her to choose a dress that can be reworn for other occasions. My prom dress was also meant to be for attending my cousin’s wedding banquet so I can’t pick anything totally black/white/red. I ended up with a dark green velvet dress. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Arcadia
typo

[livetoread]

34 minutes ago, Katy said:

I was so incredulous I read this to DH.  He said, "Would he like a corsage for his tux or for his wrist?  Who leads?" And several other remarks that were more off-color.  DH suggests someone mansplain to him exactly how this works.

How does it work? Only girls or "girly boys" should care about how the couple look together? Any boy who cares is not only just way too effeminate but also needs to be mocked as such?

I understand the OP's frustration, especially if the date is being controlling rather than working with his date to match, but this gender shaming (which wasn't the OP's point) doesn't sit well with me.

"Who leads"? Really?

[Elizabeth86]

46 minutes ago, Katy said:

I was so incredulous I read this to DH.  He said, "Would he like a corsage for his tux or for his wrist?  Who leads?" And several other remarks that were more off-color.  DH suggests someone mansplain to him exactly how this works.

Kinda my reaction too.

[rebcoola]

Vent away I would be absolutely livid!  

[Katy]

7 hours ago, livetoread said:

How does it work? Only girls or "girly boys" should care about how the couple look together? Any boy who cares is not only just way too effeminate but also needs to be mocked as such?

I understand the OP's frustration, especially if the date is being controlling rather than working with his date to match, but this gender shaming (which wasn't the OP's point) doesn't sit well with me.

"Who leads"? Really?

I don’t care if shaming a kid who is treating a girlfriend as an object instead of a person with feelings isn’t isn’t woke enough. Why should his appearance with an object matter more than her appearance as a person? Even if he was paying for the dress choosing her clothing to flatter him instead of her is never appropriate. 

ETA: I’d go so far as to say it’s abusive. And gentle teasing back about how absolutely out of line it is is more likely to reign in this bad behavior than confronting him directly. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Katy

[Emba]

8 hours ago, Arcadia said:

They take photos and parents post on social media. My high school prom was majority going without a date but people did dress to look pretty on photos since it was a graduation prom. 
 

OP,

I would just set a budget and let your daughter choose. Or tell her you need her to choose a dress that can be reworn for other occasions. My prom dress was also meant to be for attending my cousin’s wedding banquet so I can’t pick anything totally black/white/red. I ended up with a dark green velvet dress. 

Well, I suspect his dad won’t do that, but maybe it’s more in the general expectations of the age group than I realize.

 When I was in school, some couples did plan their outfits together to match for photos, but it was usually based on what dress the girl wanted. Otherwise, you just let your date know what color your dress was so that he could get the right color of ribbon in your corsage.

She’s definitely willing to consider dresses that are a little less shiny than the prom dresses I remember, so that ups the wearability for other occasions, which like I said, we’ve got coming up. I’m also surprised that she knows a girl who wore the same dress for junior and senior prom, and at least right now, is willing to consider doing that (my guess is next year she might have changed her mind about that, but we’ll see I guess.)

 I’m just irritated. it is of a cloth with some of the reasons this boy annoys me - a general arrogance that I hope he’ll grow out of, and lack of concern for others. DD is such a people pleaser, and I feel like of all things, her prom dress color should be based solely on what she likes.

[HomeAgain]

Someone needs to explain to this young man that if he's not wearing the outfit, nothing is going to look good.  Can you imagine a girl in the "right" color dress and looking absolutely awful because it's not a good color for her?  And he thinks that people are going to match him with the dress? LOL

Teen boys are dumb.  They're a special kind of dumb that they often grow out of, but they need explicit instructions at times.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

Matching is a thing according to my fourteen year old niece, but usually the couple talk about what color they want and the guy wears a tie that matches the girls dress.

This would rub me the wrong way too.

[zimom]

Decades ago when we attended prom, the girls picked their dress and the guys wore ties to match the girls dress.   From my memory, all of my children did the same thing with their dances.   

[livetoread]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

I don’t care if shaming a kid who is treating a girlfriend as an object instead of a person with feelings isn’t isn’t woke enough

You and I agree on that. The point is treating another person as a person and not an object. 

Implying he is being too girly which is also a bad thing he should be ashamed about is my issue. You are conflating two different things here. If you think it is "too woke" to object to someone trying to belittle a boy by implying he is effeminate, fine, we'll just disagree. But we are on the same page about treating every person like a person, not an object.

[SKL]

I think it's a thing these days for them to match.

One of my dd's Christmas requests was matching out-of-production Nikes ... I assume he chose the style.  Flame me, but I think it's kinda cute ... as long as both individuals really want to do that.

I get not feeling great about our kids' initial choices.  I love all my kids' friends, whether they are dating or not, but serious compatibility is another question.  I guess it's something they all need to figure out for themselves.

[Ting Tang]

I think the gender shaming is coming from the idea that he is probably a wee bit controlling, self-interested, etc.   I think it is more "toxic masculinity" than he is "feminine because he cares about appearances."  If he had fashion sense, he would be considering what colors look good on them both.

Hopefully this will pass before too much time and energy are lost on the whole situation.  

[livetoread]

17 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I think the gender shaming is coming from the idea that he is probably a wee bit controlling, self-interested, etc.   I think it is more "toxic masculinity" than he is "feminine because he cares about appearances."  If he had fashion sense, he would be considering what colors look good on them both.

Hopefully this will pass before too much time and energy are lost on the whole situation.  

That might be true about other posters but Katy's husband specifically said maybe the boy should get a wrist corsage and asked who would lead which is about him being feminine. It is Katy's post I am responding to.

Yes, the boy might be controlling and self-interested. Or maybe he cares about appearances and the OP's daughter didn't have an opinion so the guy took more of a role. Or maybe the daughter had an opinion but didn't want to voice it for whatever reason. It sounds like the OP has had more experiences with the bf which lead her to think this is more of the first option, and I trust her on that. He probably is a bit controlling and I'd be frustrated as a parent, too.

But again, separate issue from trying to shame him by implying he is acting like a girl.

[BusyMom5]

My DD chose a purple dress and her date wore purple tie.  I told him that a coordinating green would be fine,  too.  I agree that the girl should pick her dress based on what looks best on HER.  The boy will be mostly black and white with a colored tie- he can match or coordinate- or just wear what he wants.  

I will say that kids talk all kinds of stuff.  I wouldn't assume he's manipulating or controlling.  I was recently explaining to my boys that if they ask a girl to a dance, they will need to coordinate their clothes.  Their response-  What if she picks pink?  Me- you wear a pink tie.  

[catz]

2 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I will say that kids talk all kinds of stuff.  I wouldn't assume he's manipulating or controlling.  I was recently explaining to my boys that if they ask a girl to a dance, they will need to coordinate their clothes.  Their response-  What if she picks pink?  Me- you wear a pink tie.  

I totally agree.  Some kids are just still clueless at this age.  Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.   Or immaturity in this case.  And there isn't any particular reason they need to match at all.  It's one night.

I'd definitely encourage my daughter to pick a dress she loves.  

[ArteHaus]

Has anyone considered the boy? I haven’t read through all posts, but it I stopped reading when someone called the boy “effeminate”. What? It is not effeminate to consider aesthetic, whether that be fashion or art or architecture. The young man is allowed to care what he “looks like”, as he deserves to feel and look nice, too. He can care whether the colors clash or compliment. That is not objectification! And prom is NOT just about the girl. 

I would assume that many of the girls going to prom with a date have no doubt, considered what their date was going to wear. I doubt anyone would be venting over that. There is literally, nothing “toxic” about what the boys asked or suggested. What is more “toxic” is the perspective that says a boy merely asking someone to wear a certain dress color because they think it would compliment them is controlling or wrong. What?? 

It is astounding to see mothers, many of which probably have sons, degrade a young man with ease and much assumed virtue. But all I see is Toxic Femininity. 

 

[ArteHaus]

8 minutes ago, catz said:

I totally agree.  Some kids are just still clueless at this age.  Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.   Or immaturity in this case.  And there isn't any particular reason they need to match at all.  It's one night.

I'd definitely encourage my daughter to pick a dress she loves.  

I guess, just teach girls to disregard other’s feelings and opinions because she is what…more important, more valuable? No. Not at all. Why is the boy “stupid”?  Perhaps, working together, or *compromise* is best.

Edited February 8, 2023 by ArteHaus

[ArteHaus]

4 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Someone needs to explain to this young man that if he's not wearing the outfit, nothing is going to look good.  Can you imagine a girl in the "right" color dress and looking absolutely awful because it's not a good color for her?  And he thinks that people are going to match him with the dress? LOL

Teen boys are dumb.  They're a special kind of dumb that they often grow out of, but they need explicit instructions at times.

What if someone said, “Teen girls are dumb. She thinks that people are going to match her with the right tie?” Most would rant and rave at such a thing. But belittle young men is okay. He has just as much right as she does. They should both decide…together. Again, the prom is not about HER, but both.

Come on that is hideous. Girls need explicit instruction. Boys do to. Seems like the girl and her mother are the more controlling here. Will they be equitable, or will the boy’s opinion be dismissed as it already has?

[catz]

18 minutes ago, ArteHaus said:

I guess, just teach girls to disregard other’s feelings and opinions because she is what…more important, more valuable? No. Not at all. Why is the boy “stupid”?  Perhaps, working together, or *compromise* is best.

That's not what I am saying at all.  Compromise would be a first choice of course.  I actually think like certain greens would contrast nicely with pink or blues.  But at the end of the day, why spend time and $$$ on finding dress you aren't in love with.  They really don't need to match.  

I was just regurgitating hanlon's razor, I really don't think "stupid" is the right word.  It isn't uncommon for young couples early in their dating journey to struggle with expectations and communication.  I really don't think it's the end of the world if either one said "this is what I have to wear now".  It's not a wedding and I wouldn't be shopping for weeks for this.  Way too much emotion and drama wrapped in some of these one day as a teenager events,

Edited February 8, 2023 by catz

[ArteHaus]

9 minutes ago, catz said:

That's not what I am saying at all.  Compromise would be a first choice of course.  I actually think like certain greens would contrast nicely with pink or blues.  But at the end of the day, why spend time and $$$ on finding dress you aren't in love with.  They really don't need to match.  

I was just regurgitating hanlon's razor, I really don't think "stupid" is the right word.  It isn't uncommon for young couples early in their dating journey to struggle with expectations and communication.  I really don't think it's the end of the world if either one said "this is what I have to wear now".  It's not a wedding and I wouldn't be shopping for weeks for this.  Way too much emotion and drama wrapped in some of these one day as a teenager events,

Agreed. Prom is really a non issue (life has bigger struggles). No, you are right, it isn’t the end of the world. I just think parents could be encouraging towards communication and compromise, thereby teaching a young couple about how life really works. Relationships don’t work any other way. And assuming girls have more of a say so and that boys are controlling for making a suggestion is strange and wrong, IMHO. That was my overreaching point. However, I think that a small life event like prom can expose deeper prejudices in people, as it pertains to gender. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by ArteHaus

[teachermom2834]

My dd is going to a formal dance this weekend- her first with a date. The date asked her dress color and did get a shirt to coordinate (not exactly match) and a pocket square and he also got a fake boutonnière to match her dress. (Though he is getting her a real corsage). He has asked her opinion on a couple things - what shoes/ tie etc. She keeps telling him to wear what he likes and what makes him comfortable because that is what she is doing and besides “I wouldn’t let you tell me what to wear.” Lol. 
 

He is more into the styling and details but happy to follow her lead. But he is also older and has either done this before or seen others do it I guess. The coordinating is definitely a thing. 

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

 

I will say that kids talk all kinds of stuff.  I wouldn't assume he's manipulating or controlling.  I was recently explaining to my boys that if they ask a girl to a dance, they will need to coordinate their clothes.  Their response-  What if she picks pink?  Me- you wear a pink tie.  

Ds2 (28 years old)  still has a pastel pink dress shirt that he bought because his homecoming date wanted him to wear one to match his dress.  He wore it just that once.  

[HomeAgain]

1 hour ago, ArteHaus said:

 

Come on that is hideous. Girls need explicit instruction. Boys do to. Seems like the girl and her mother are the more controlling here. Will they be equitable, or will the boy’s opinion be dismissed as it already has?

I need to be sure I'm reading this right.  You are finding the girl more controlling for choosing a dress without input from the boy, who is not wearing said dress? And equitable would be getting his opinion on a dress that isn't going on his body?

I need a better understanding of what controlling means in this situation.  Do elaborate.

[LMD]

5 hours ago, ArteHaus said:

Has anyone considered the boy? I haven’t read through all posts...

 

Sounds like the boy has considered himself enough for all of them...

[ArteHaus]

  The mother nor daughter have considered that the boy has an opinion, whether they like the opinion or not. He would like her to match his clothing. He voiced what he would like. That is okay. He asked that she not just choose any dress, but to choose one that matched him. He is talking about color, not style (which could make someone uncomfortable to wear a certain style, I get that. It still would not make him controlling for making the suggestion).

Equitable would be for the two kids (parents assisting?) to come to a compromise about color, or what they are wearing because the boy has an opinion. She doesn’t want to match him, that is her opinion. They need to be taught to acknowledge each other.

The problem is that the mother and daughter are annoyed that he dare usurp their complete control by merely stating that he would like her to match him. 

Would it be wrong for her to suggest he match her dress with his tie? You would have to say so, in the name of gender equality. And why is her vanity more important than his? 

@HomeAgain

Edited February 9, 2023 by ArteHaus

[KSera]

6 hours ago, ArteHaus said:

He has just as much right as she does. They should both decide…together. 

Come on that is hideous. 

He’s not the one wearing the dress! Why would he have just as much right to decide what it should be as she does? That is very strange. 

[WildflowerMom]

@ArteHaus, it’s not even his prom.  

 

op, I’d tell him to get either a black tie or one that went with her dress.  It doesn’t have to match exactly.   It can be a light shade, dark shade, even stripes or dots, or like I said solid black.   He’s trying to be the center of attention.    

[LMD]

Because an invited guest doesn't immediately assume that he gets to dress up his date like she's an inanimate mannequin only there to make him look good?

It's her prom! He should be encouraging her to choose something she likes and trying to match her. 

I could see a scenario where he's style conscious and says, I know you love that but green would bring out your eyes, or pink is risky because you might look washed out but a bold red would work. My husband is much more fashionable than me and often gives me feedback like that. But He's not giving her suggestions to help her feel beautiful, he's giving her suggestions because his priority is so he can feel better looking. At her prom. 

Mom isn't interfering at all. She's venting here.

Sounds like you're bringing a whole truckload of baggage to your responses here ArteHaus...

Edited February 9, 2023 by LMD

[ArteHaus]

13 minutes ago, KSera said:

He’s not the one wearing the dress! Why would he have just as much right to decide what it should be as she does? That is very strange. 

No, he isn’t. But the issue is simply color, just…color. Why can’t he have an opinion? Could she have an opinion on the color of his tie? Is that strange?

[Not_a_Number]

13 minutes ago, ArteHaus said:

No, he isn’t. But the issue is simply color, just…color. Why can’t he have an opinion? Could she have an opinion on the color of his tie? Is that strange?

Well, as someone who's relatively picky about what she wears... some colors look really hideous on me. Just awful. 

A tie is a small part of one's outfit. A dress is... what you're wearing that evening. It should look good on you and only you. 

But honestly, I'd think that a girl who INSISTS that a boy wear a specific tie was also being kind of controlling. Just much less controlling than the young man in this story. 

[ArteHaus]

2 minutes ago, LMD said:

Because an invited guest doesn't immediately assume that he gets to dress up his date like she's an inanimate mannequin only there to make him look good?

It's her prom! He should be encouraging her to choose something she likes and trying to match her. 

I could see a scenario where he's style conscious and says, I know you love that but green would bring out your eyes, or pink is risky because you might look washed out but a bold red would work. My husband is much more fashionable than me and often gives me feedback like that. But He's not giving her suggestions to help her feel beautiful, he's giving her suggestions because is priority is so he can feel better looking. At her prom. 

Mom isn't interfering at all. She's venting here.

Sounds like you're bringing a whole truckload of baggage to your responses here ArteHaus...

I am not sure what you mean by baggage? I am quite passionate about gender issues. Honestly, I find the whole thing interesting because it shows that women are so entrenched in feminism that many feel validated in calling a young man (essentially, a child) dumb, stupid, effeminate because he would like the girl to wear a certain color to match his own outfit, or really, because he isn’t making prom (whatever relevance to life it has…none really) all about her. 

These are issues in our time that most take lightly. I have boys, who are just as valuable as any girl (I have another on the way that could be a girl). I don’t think that it is at all proper for women to feel empowered to belittle young men. What about his sense of self? What about his sense of confidence, or style? What is inherently wrong with wanting to match. 

Again, I reiterate. What if she wanted him to match her dress with her tie? Is that equally wrong? No one will answer that because, really the answer is obvious and it exposes the hypocrisy.

Why not just let the young fellow be and perhaps she should get a new date that hasn’t a care about colors or fashion. Maybe she can feel like the “belle of the ball” while he is just the inanimate object that accompanies her to her prom in her dress and does everything the she wants and voices no opinions because everything of course, is about her.

[WildflowerMom]

@ArteHaus, JAWM means ‘just agree with me’.   It sometimes throws newbies off (it did me!) but it’s because the op doesn’t want to deal with extreme opposing opinions.   Op just wants to vent.   

[KSera]

25 minutes ago, ArteHaus said:

No, he isn’t. But the issue is simply color, just…color. Why can’t he have an opinion? Could she have an opinion on the color of his tie? Is that strange?

She doesn’t get to pick his tie either. If they want to match, then it makes sense for her to tell him the color of her dress if he wants to coordinate his tie. If he wants to wear a different color, that’s totally up to him as it’s his tie. But the dress is the whole outfit for her, so for him to want to choose the color that looks best on him seems really bizarre. He’s not wearing it, she is.

The comments about him being effeminate and who leads in the corsage and all that were off color and I don’t think in keeping with what most of the rest of the discussion here is. They certainly weren’t feminist comments though, as you are suggesting.

I could tell before your last post though that you were a mom of only boys 😜  

 

[lmrich]

Why? I just wonder what his coloring is like that he feels like green and/or red look good with him? 

Regardless, he can coordiante with her - if she wears pink, he can wear a green. If she selects black or white, he can go with red.. etc.. 

So silly. 

[ArteHaus]

@KSera @WildflowerMom @Not_a_Number

Just giving a different view, a different perspective, and using a little logic in the process. I think the deeper understanding is maybe more than most want to discuss, and that is fine. I am not sure why so many shy away from actual discussion, dare I say…debate. Those things can be healthy. A different perspective is healthy for one venting, IMHO. And as far as feminism, the well is probably way to deep to discuss here. Fascinating topic, though. 

I am also not looking for contention and everyone is entitled to their own views, I can respect that.

As a mother of boys (and maybe a girl soon) it is my duty to be acute on this topic as there is much toxicity from women (who then teach daughters) that effect boys and men. I know I am not the only mother of boys who understands this (maybe not on this forum). I still find it awesome (literally) that compromise isn’t the advice, but “let the girl do as she pleases”. Argh, there is just so much in that. So, I think most are just looking at the surface of what I am saying, and not the underlying issue, and that’s cool. Maybe this isn’t the crowd for analyzing these things. That is okay too.

Nevertheless, peace——just opinions and thoughts.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by ArteHaus

[Emba]

2 hours ago, ArteHaus said:

  The mother nor daughter have considered that the boy has an opinion, whether they like the opinion or not. He would like her to match his clothing. He voiced what he would like. That is okay. He asked that she not just choose any dress, but to choose one that matched him. He is talking about color, not style (which could make someone uncomfortable to wear a certain style, I get that. It still would not make him controlling for making the suggestion).

Equitable would be for the two kids (parents assisting?) to come to a compromise about color, or what they are wearing because the boy has an opinion. She doesn’t want to match him, that is her opinion. They need to be taught to acknowledge each other.

The problem is that the mother and daughter are annoyed that he dare usurp their complete control by merely stating that he would like her to match him. 

Would it be wrong for her to suggest he match her dress with his tie? You would have to say so, in the name of gender equality. And why is her vanity more important than his? 

@HomeAgain

I think you need to go back and practice some reading comprehension. I’m not trying to control anyone here. You do know what venting is, don’t you? 
 

DD is willing to get whatever color of dress he suggests because she is a people pleaser. I don’t think that’s as good thing, but it’s not so much about color as about deeper issues that could come up in the future. I’m not trying to tell him what color of tie to wear and neither is she. In fact, I’m just sort of barely remembering that people would do that, when I was in school.

i find some of what you said here offensive, a your assumptions of both DD and myself.  I told DD to get a dress in the color she wanted. If she wants green, I won’t stop her. That would be controlling, but I’m , in case you missed it, not doing that. I’m venting here, so that I don’t say poorly thought out things to the young people involved.

i also have sons, FYI.

[Rosie_0801]

Is she going to have "obey" in her wedding vows? Either way, since they're not at the altar, obedience shouldn't be necessary.

[ArteHaus]

Obedience to a husband is found in Scripture. If she is a believer then, yes. If not, then it’s whatever, I guess. I agree, they are not at the altar. However, being in a bf/gf relationship is practice for that, right? A resemblance to that, right? I mean she didn’t say they were friends, but in a different type of relationship that sometimes is a prelude to marriage. 

So, why disregard teaching things that could help a relationship that could lead to marriage? Like compromise and communication, not excluding opinions of one in favor of the other. 

@Rosie_0801

Edited February 9, 2023 by ArteHaus

[ArteHaus]

36 minutes ago, Emba said:

I think you need to go back and practice some reading comprehension. I’m not trying to control anyone here. You do know what venting is, don’t you? 
 

DD is willing to get whatever color of dress he suggests because she is a people pleaser. I don’t think that’s as good thing, but it’s not so much about color as about deeper issues that could come up in the future. I’m not trying to tell him what color of tie to wear and neither is she. In fact, I’m just sort of barely remembering that people would do that, when I was in school.

i find some of what you said here offensive, a your assumptions of both DD and myself.  I told DD to get a dress in the color she wanted. If she wants green, I won’t stop her. That would be controlling, but I’m , in case you missed it, not doing that. I’m venting here, so that I don’t say poorly thought out things to the young people involved.

i also have sons, FYI.

You referred to a young man as controlling, and I saw the situation different. 

Venting is a release of energy, and usually negative. I think a different perspective may help you, not fuel your fire and validate your emotions.

My issue was less with your post and more with some of the other things that were said about the boy. Those were hateful and toxic things to say about a child. Your venting inspired some weird energy. I tried to bring another view. It is that simple. You don’t have to agree or listen to another thought pattern. You can simply look for someone to validate your feelings.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by ArteHaus

[Eos]

59 minutes ago, ArteHaus said:

(maybe not on this forum)

Last week, before your current name, you were here on this forum as a Holocaust denier.  Now you're talking about toxic femininity, submission, and feminism? Read the room. 

When you've navigated raising sons, daughters, or non-binary kids through the teen years, let us know how it all went.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Eos

[Emba]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, as someone who's relatively picky about what she wears... some colors look really hideous on me. Just awful. 

A tie is a small part of one's outfit. A dress is... what you're wearing that evening. It should look good on you and only you. 

But honestly, I'd think that a girl who INSISTS that a boy wear a specific tie was also being kind of controlling. Just much less controlling than the young man in this story. 

I have a lot of strong  opinions about color. Like, I love color, it matters to me.  It’s not always because of the way some colors look on me (pink is quite flattering but it is not me, and I don’t feel like myself if I’m dressed in large quantities of pink).  Some colors just make me happy. Some are too boring.  All of the colors I can’t stand to wear I may love on others if they wear them, or in a painting or a quilt. So maybe that’s part of why this is setting me off so much.  

Plus DH does not try to influence what I wear at all, maybe twice in our marriage that I remember he’s said something critical/ not a compliment about what I’m wearing. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Emba

[Emba]

4 hours ago, ArteHaus said:

  The mother nor daughter have considered that the boy has an opinion, whether they like the opinion or not. He would like her to match his clothing. He voiced what he would like. That is okay. He asked that she not just choose any dress, but to choose one that matched him. He is talking about color, not style (which could make someone uncomfortable to wear a certain style, I get that. It still would not make him controlling for making the suggestion).

Equitable would be for the two kids (parents assisting?) to come to a compromise about color, or what they are wearing because the boy has an opinion. She doesn’t want to match him, that is her opinion. They need to be taught to acknowledge each other.

The problem is that the mother and daughter are annoyed that he dare usurp their complete control by merely stating that he would like her to match him. 

Would it be wrong for her to suggest he match her dress with his tie? You would have to say so, in the name of gender equality. And why is her vanity more important than his? 

@HomeAgain

Again, I would like to suggest you employ better reading comprehension. Not just with what you say in the post I’m quoting, but in all of them. You state that I say he’s controlling , which I didn’t ever say. You say this is about him wanting her to “match him”, and it isn’t. He wants her to wear colors that look flattering to him, to his hair/eye colors, presumably.
 

you say “Mother and daughter are annoyed that he daré usurp. . . Etc” 

you’re making things up that aren’t written here or present in reality. DD didn’t mention it to me because SHE is annoyed. I am annoyed. 

But whatever. Tell yourself whatever helps you work up a good head of self-righteous steam. It just, you know, helps with the righteousness thing (and helps others not take offense) if you restrict yourself to responding to things that have actually been said.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Eos said:

Last week, before your current name, you were here on this forum as a Holocaust denier.  Now you're talking about toxic femininity, submission, and feminism? Read the room. 

When you've navigated raising sons, daughters, or non-binary kids through the teen years, let us know how it all went.

 

Seems that this particular boardie likes to troll threads to attract attention to herself (or himself, for all we know,) and try to start trouble. 

I wonder what his or her next new username will be. 🤪

 

[Ausmumof3]

Oddly controversial posts for a poster that has been around for 6 days 😂😂😂

[WildflowerMom]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Seems that this particular boardie likes to troll threads to attract attention to herself (or himself, for all we know,) and try to start trouble. 

I wonder what his or her next new username will be. 🤪

 

It’ll probably have something horrible to do with the holocaust, since they’ve been outed.    
its hard to show kindness to a holocaust denier.    But I’ll try.