Why do people say Kids/young people don’t want to work/expect free money???

[Melissa in Australia]

I think it only takes a few lazy ones to make people feel it us the whole lot. I know a lot of very hard working young people. 

I personally have tried hiring an early 20s person as a respite worker getting a very high wage of nearly $50 hour. She would cancel at the last minute often. With excuses like I have a bit of a headache, I feel a bit off after my morning jog.. 

I knew another 20 year old(was girlfriend of one of my sons) that would just not show up to work because she did things like wanted to look at some puppies with a friend, or wanted to sleep in. She went through a lot of jobs. 

So while I don't think it is even the majority of young people not wanting to work but just after the money, there are definately some who are stand outs of this  behaviour and do get noticed by communities

 

[Corraleno]

DD has done a lot of "low-skilled" manual labor kind of jobs as a teen, including stocking shelves in a grocery store, packing and shipping products for a cell phone company, working in a freezing cold UPS warehouse in winter (when she would come home exhausted, freezing, and covered in bruises), the clothing store I mentioned above, and she's also done a lot of delivery jobs like Instacart and Door Dash. The cell phone job paid $16/hr, the mall job paid $17, and the UPS job (early in the pandemic when UPS was totally slammed) paid $18/hr + $27/hr for a lot of mandatory overtime. At each of those jobs she showed up on time and did exactly what she needed to do, but didn't go beyond that because there was really no incentive or reward for going above and beyond. Most teens and young adults are just not going to get personal satisfaction out of having loaded the most boxes or stocked the shelves the fastest or whatever.

After she left the mall job because of (1) a nasty, bullying boss, (2) an impossible schedule, and (3) creepy guys, she got her current job at a dog grooming business. She gets paid $20/hr to wash and dry dogs, as well as clean up, take out the trash, etc. It's a small business, the owner is super nice and flexible with the employees, and DD is guaranteed 30 hrs/wk, mostly working 8-2. Sometimes they ask her to come in at 7 or 7:30, and sometimes she needs to stay until 3, but they're closed Sunday and Monday so she has one weekend day and one weekday totally off, plus every evening, every week, no matter what. Grooming isn't something she has any interest in as a career (she's taking online CC classes to be a medical assistant), but her attitude towards this job is totally different from her previous jobs, where she felt like she may as well have been a robot. She asked the owner today if she could learn to do glands and nails and the owner was shocked she wanted to learn glands (because... ewww). But she knows if she can do those two things, then they can book more dogs who just need bath/nails/glands, not a cut, so she could do some of those by herself and then she'd get the tips, which are quite generous. So she sees an opportunity where going above and beyond what she was hired to do could bring additional rewards for her personally, as well as benefiting the business overall.

Obviously that kind of thing isn't possible at all jobs — some jobs really are just "robotic" (and those workers still deserve a living wage and benefits and to be treated decently). But I think a lot more employers and managers could do a lot more to make employees feel valued and to make even "low skilled" jobs more interesting/rewarding so workers feel more invested.

 

[Pawz4me]

16 hours ago, Quill said:

Where does this belief come from and why is it perpetuated?

From what I can gather currently it seems to mostly come from people complaining because the local Subway closed early and they can't get the sub they feel entitled to be able to buy, or because the Dollar General is still closed at 10:00 a.m. or is a total mess and they can't shop for the cheap holiday decorations or cards they think they desperately need. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Pawz4me

[Rosie_0801]

Perhaps some people forget how much they didn't work themselves. My father was sneeringly criticising my daughter for not having a job the week she turned 15, without mentioning that he didn't get a job until he'd finished school, preferring footy and camping.

[Heartstrings]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

From what I can gather currently it seems to mostly come from people complaining because the local Subway closed early and they can't get the sub they feel entitled to be able to buy, or because the Dollar General is still closed at 10:00 a.m. or is a total mess and they can't shop for the cheap holiday decorations or cards they think they desperately need. 

This is a huge factor I think.  I also think a lot of people are not being gracious about the fact that these places are short staffed.  They use it as an opportunity to abuse the staff that did show up at work.  Customers are behaving terribly, but I don’t hear a lot of grousing about how adult seem to have forgotten how to act in public over the course of the pandemic.  

[Scarlett]

I do think there is a weird labor shortage which cannot be attributed to ‘young people these days’.  
 

When I think back to the advice my mom gave me (and which I passed on to my boys) I think it still applies…..show up, be on time, work hard, be pleasant. She said if you do that you will be ahead of a lot of the people out there.  
 

My sister who lives in Houston says there is a definite shortage in her field.  They make a lot of money but can’t keep people.  She has been working 12 hour days trying to keep up.  One new hire comes in at 8:30 and leaves at 3:30.  Lives at home, no kids.  29 years old.  He actually told a supervisor to change a meeting to 8:30 because he likes to sleep in.  
 

At Lowes where ds21 works (but has put in his 2 weeks) they can’t find people to work.  And when they do hire someone there is a % who don’t show up for the first day. Or come one or two days and quit.  
 

That isn’t anything like what I would have done as a young person, but I do think it probably always happened.  I think when we get a glimpse into other ways of viewing work it is shocking to us.  

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

This is a huge factor I think.  I also think a lot of people are not being gracious about the fact that these places are short staffed.  They use it as an opportunity to abuse the staff that did show up at work.  Customers are behaving terribly, but I don’t hear a lot of grousing about how adult seem to have forgotten how to act in public over the course of the pandemic.  

QFT

[itsheresomewhere]

28 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

This is a huge factor I think.  I also think a lot of people are not being gracious about the fact that these places are short staffed.  They use it as an opportunity to abuse the staff that did show up at work.  Customers are behaving terribly, but I don’t hear a lot of grousing about how adult seem to have forgotten how to act in public over the course of the pandemic.  

Even in my job- the abuse from customers has become bad.  I feel the pandemic gave an excuse for those who were nasty online to let it all out in person.  I don’t often have to let clients go but this year I have let more go than several years combined.  Two weeks ago,  I had one throw the best tantrum I have seen in a long time as I wouldn’t take her when she was almost an hour late ( no call, 2nd to last appointment of the day).  She told everyone one of us what she thought in many words and told her kid this is what discrimination is ( um no.  All who show up more than 15 late as per the paper you signed are rescheduled).  I can handle the influencers who get picky as the hair bows don’t bring out their dogs personality but I don’t tolerate the rest of the crap. And the amount of demanding I change the cost after I have done the work they agree too is amazing.  
 

Someone I know who is a hair stylist says it is the same in her work.  The behaviors need to stop.  

[Faith-manor]

42 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I do think there is a weird labor shortage which cannot be attributed to ‘young people these days’.  
 

When I think back to the advice my mom gave me (and which I passed on to my boys) I think it still applies…..show up, be on time, work hard, be pleasant. She said if you do that you will be ahead of a lot of the people out there.  
 

My sister who lives in Houston says there is a definite shortage in her field.  They make a lot of money but can’t keep people.  She has been working 12 hour days trying to keep up.  One new hire comes in at 8:30 and leaves at 3:30.  Lives at home, no kids.  29 years old.  He actually told a supervisor to change a meeting to 8:30 because he likes to sleep in.  
 

At Lowes where ds21 works (but has put in his 2 weeks) they can’t find people to work.  And when they do hire someone there is a % who don’t show up for the first day. Or come one or two days and quit.  
 

That isn’t anything like what I would have done as a young person, but I do think it probably always happened.  I think when we get a glimpse into other ways of viewing work it is shocking to us.  

In our area, the not showing up after being hired is often the result of the person finding a job at better pay before their start date. They should be calling to say that. However, I get it. Ds applied to numerous companies, interviewed, and never heard back. He took a job with a company that is turning out to be great, really awesome. But some of those companies have started calling him 2-3 months AFTER interviews that were followed by stone silence, and asking when he can start. When he tells them he accepted employment elsewhere, he gets sworn at by HR people who apparently think he should have turned down gainful employment while waiting for them to make a decision. Looking directly at Rolls Royce here! 😠

I think many times some of these HR departments even when they make a job offer, do it in such a way or with so many caveats that if the person can find a job somewhere else before they even start, they will, and if they have already been jerked around by the former HR department, they won't feel compelled to bother with the courtesy of a phone call. I still think they should communicate this, but I get why it may happen. Obviously, that is only one scenario and doesn't explain the phenomenon in every circumstance.

[saraha]

Some thoughts here.

All of my kids have worked since at least 16. They are not job hoppers, but three of them have left a job  because of crappy work environments, so had multiple jobs by 18/19. Those kids definitely did want to work but their employers were the reason they chose to leave.

Of my kids generation in dh’s family, my kids and one niece are the only ones to work during high school. So of the working age kids, 5 of 13 worked in high school. Neither dh or his siblings were expected to work during school, but all did farm work over the summer. I was expected to work in high school, as were my siblings. 2 of my nephews are 18 and 25 and do not and have not ever had a job. Both have cars and live at home all expenses paid my mom and dad. Dn25 has been babysitting mil a lot since spring, no idea if he gets paid, but he is fulfilling a great need in the family.

 

My two in college now worked a lot and are putting themselves through school with scholarships, money saved and for one, loans. They all started out at the community college and then transferred to save money. They both work 10-15 hours a week at the college on campus. They have their pick of jobs as every single place, department etc are hiring. They are at different schools. Each has three roommates in college housing. Each has an international student as a roommate, one that works at a job, and one who doesn’t work outside school. One has a required menu plan, all students must have one, and they have a food court as well as a cafeteria. She uses her swipes wisely and has figured out how to play the game and get fun foods etc for swipes too. The other had a choice and chose not to have a meal plan and is living of ramen and whatever groceries we send home with her. She eats well as she learned to cook before going away to school and even hosted a dinner party and made jambalaya from scratch much to the pleasure of her friends. She knows how to take a few nutritious foods and make something good from it. We stocked her kitchen with yard sale finds and old things given by family members. 
 

Our county seat has 5 fast food restaurants and two grocery stores. These are the only places for teens to work, and they are mostly staffed with adults. The quality of a lot of the adult workers is less than what I would hope for as n employer, and I know first hand from my kids who, because I have 5 that have worked in town so far, have worked at most of the places at some point. The kids have to be able to leave town and drive to another to work at typical teen jobs. The mall is almost an hour away. And our rural towns here in Appalachia  are spaced out. They all noted that not all, but some of the teens/young 20s did have terrible work ethics and drove the few good workers crazy. They were also the kids that had no other plans than to hang around town for the rest of their lives working wherever they could.

[bolt.]

10 hours ago, MercyA said:

These are interesting thoughts. I'll just use one example. When teens in the grocery store stock the shelves, they are supposed to 1. check that they are putting the right product in the right place, 2. rotate the stock, moving the older stock forward and putting the newer stock in the back, and 3. arrange the labels of the products forward so they can be easily read. It's not complicated, but doing it in the wrong way can have plenty of consequences, from items and prices being mislabeled, to people not being able to find what they want, to wasting food that as been kept too long at the back of a display.

I would say it IS part a work contract to do the job correctly and satisfactorily, thereby meeting expectations. What else would they be getting paid for? If they don't want to work they shouldn't have applied for and taken the job in the first place. 

I'm, of course, not going to defend people doing work that doesn't comply with the details or standards of their instructions -- that's crummy. Of course people ought to follow their employment instructions, with all specifications, the first time.

But, simply in the interests of 'understanding the mindset shift': I can see how some instructions seem more or less important than others, and how 'trying things the easy way first, to see whether it is good enough' (while it's not a good strategy) is a pretty ordinary-human response to a situation where you aren't sure if your work matters. People tend to view 'things that nobody checks on' as 'things that don't really matter'.

Which, again, shifts the responsibility to someone's supervisor to actually-and-actively provide supervision and reinforcement of the job's requirements. The mindset of 'I shouldn't have to come behind you to make sure you are doing your work well' is a mindset that only works when you have the goodwill of your employees. (Ie: if they come pre-loaded with cultural beliefs about work-ethics, hierarchy, work-as-self-esteem, taking pride in a job, etc.) Otherwise, if you have a 'raw recruit' it's a management duty to stop 'expecting' what they aren't 'inspecting'. Good oversight solves a lot of 'lazy worker' problems, both in the short term (they know someone will check) and the long term (they get into good habits and become reliable).

So what leads to this problem: Is it lazy working? Or is it inactive supervision? Or both. "Good work ethic" enables lazy supervision. Good supervision leads to jobs getting done correctly and satisfactorily regardless of work-ethics. It's a joint responsibility that doesn't fall solely to a worker working solo. (I know this from my homeschooling journey! But maybe more business owners need to face the reality that direct employee management is an important role: and it's been slack for a long time.)

[Scarlett]

I know with my ds21 he seems to have an unreasonable expectation of human behaviors. One small example…..a customer comes in and wants 40 pieces of 4 foot 1/2 inch rebar (totally making up these numbers so don’t come at me if I am saying something dumb about rebar). So he tells the cashier that and she rings it up and he pays for it and then cashier comes to ds and asks him to help customer load up. That is normal. Well, ds knows they don’t have 40 pieces in stock that size. He knows because he works that department and he has already informed his supervisor who obviously did not correct the system.  Ds is angry at the customer for not going to check the inventory before purchase.    I mean Wtheck.  Ds won’t even talk to the customer….he yells for the manager who comes and solves the problem, after much discussion, by giving the customer a similar more expensive product for the same price.  
 

I guess I don’t understand why any of that made ds angry.  He is starting a new job in a few weeks where he won’t be dealing with retail customers.  It is warehouse work but not retail. Hopefully that will make life easier on him.
 

My former psycho manager was angry over EVERYTHING.  And he was mid 40 so we can’t blame that on young people these days.  

[KungFuPanda]

Can we get a dig in about the online hiring process during this discussion?  It's a little disconcerting.  People send out a gajillion resumes at the touch of a button and it's hard to know if they ever get into the hands of the person hiring.  That person could be receiving a gajillion resumes and is wading through them?  Sometimes you can find a phone number and talk to a person, but that's not universally the case.  When I was a teen looking for work, I walked into the establishment, asked for a resume, filled it out in ink, returned it, and was either given an interview on the spot or told when to expect a call for one.  Now you can go for weeks without ever knowing if a person read your resume.  I do love the efficiency of it all, but the follow up is lacking.  Of course people are going to look elsewhere if they never hear from an employer. They can also sift through more choices and the lower paying, less desirable jobs go unfilled while those owners complain that nobody wants to work.

[bolt.]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I know with my ds21 he seems to have an unreasonable expectation of human behaviors. One small example…..a customer comes in and wants 40 pieces of 4 foot 1/2 inch rebar (totally making up these numbers so don’t come at me if I am saying something dumb about rebar). So he tells the cashier that and she rings it up and he pays for it and then cashier comes to ds and asks him to help customer load up. That is normal. Well, ds knows they don’t have 40 pieces in stock that size. He knows because he works that department and he has already informed his supervisor who obviously did not correct the system.  Ds is angry at the customer for not going to check the inventory before purchase.    I mean Wtheck.  Ds won’t even talk to the customer….he yells for the manager who comes and solves the problem, after much discussion, by giving the customer a similar more expensive product for the same price.  
 

I guess I don’t understand why any of that made ds angry.  He is starting a new job in a few weeks where he won’t be dealing with retail customers.  It is warehouse work but not retail. Hopefully that will make life easier on him.
 

My former psycho manager was angry over EVERYTHING.  And he was mid 40 so we can’t blame that on young people these days.  

I know that's workplace behaviour, but it's also classic anger-as-deflection.

This is how anger-as-deflection works:

Your son feels some sort of undefined bad feeling when faced with a situation where he can't deliver what is being asked/expected. Is it personal shame? Is it frustration with a bad system? Is it fear of blame? Is it fear of being mistreated? Something else? -- He probably doesn't even know. It just feels bad inside of him, and it's fairly intense, and he doesn't want it to be there.

The young-human naturally occurring juvenile response to this scenario is that his cognitive mind scrambles to help him out of his inner distress. It selects any scenario (whether reasonable or not) in which the actions of some other person (any other person) would have prevented 'things' from 'coming to this'. It then identifies that person as an 'aggressor' who has inflicted his inner distress upon him by whatever actions (or lack of actions) have been assigned to be the 'cause' of 'this'.

The faster his brain has to scramble, the more irrational the blame-story tends to be. But that doesn't matter in the moment. The person becomes able to get angry, which has the effect of minimizing the original discomfort. Which is the whole point of the process: his brain is trying to help him by easing the inner turmoil through storytelling.

This is super common between parents and teens, and especially preteens (specifically 11yos) where it is really transparent that a kid just 'picks a nearby person to blame' so that they can shove their uncomfortable feelings as far away from themselves as possible. It's less transparent when grown adults do it... but it's actually not that uncommon.

The trick is to teach the person to identify whatever flash of feeling came just before the anger-as-help for that feeling. And then build up a tolerance for that particular feeling so it doesn't have to be 'shoved away' so urgently using this 'emergency response' that the brain defaults to.

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, KungFuPanda said:

Can we get a dig in about the online hiring process during this discussion?  It's a little disconcerting.  People send out a gajillion resumes at the touch of a button and it's hard to know if they ever get into the hands of the person hiring.  That person could be receiving a gajillion resumes and is wading through them?  Sometimes you can find a phone number and talk to a person, but that's not universally the case.  When I was a teen looking for work, I walked into the establishment, asked for a resume, filled it out in ink, returned it, and was either given an interview on the spot or told when to expect a call for one.  Now you can go for weeks without ever knowing if a person read your resume.  I do love the efficiency of it all, but the follow up is lacking.  Of course people are going to look elsewhere if they never hear from an employer. They can also sift through more choices and the lower paying, less desirable jobs go unfilled while those owners complain that nobody wants to work.

It’s demoralizing.  You fill out a million applications and can’t even get Dollar General to call back, meanwhile you SEE the hiring signs.  It leaves these kids feeling like they are being rejected.  My son has filled out a couple hundred apps online. I’m at a loss on how to help at this point.  If you go in to talk to a human you get pointed online. We’re new to the area so I don’t have connections I can pull from.

[KungFuPanda]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

It’s demoralizing.  You fill out a million applications and can’t even get Dollar General to call back, meanwhile you SEE the hiring signs.  It leaves these kids feeling like they are being rejected.  My son has filled out a couple hundred apps online. I’m at a loss on how to help at this point.  If you go in to talk to a human you get pointed online. We’re new to the area so I don’t have connections I can pull from.

IKR!!!  Online applications should be a great equalizer but it has made people even MORE reliant on personal connections to get work.  If you don't have them what do you even do? I've gotten around this by working for companies that are small enough that I can speak to the owner, but then you have a job with not much room for advancement.  If you're a kid with zero experience it must be insanely frustrating.  Then on top of it you hear about how these kids don't want to work.

[itsheresomewhere]

8 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Can we get a dig in about the online hiring process during this discussion?  It's a little disconcerting.  People send out a gajillion resumes at the touch of a button and it's hard to know if they ever get into the hands of the person hiring.  That person could be receiving a gajillion resumes and is wading through them?  Sometimes you can find a phone number and talk to a person, but that's not universally the case.  When I was a teen looking for work, I walked into the establishment, asked for a resume, filled it out in ink, returned it, and was either given an interview on the spot or told when to expect a call for one.  Now you can go for weeks without ever knowing if a person read your resume.  I do love the efficiency of it all, but the follow up is lacking.  Of course people are going to look elsewhere if they never hear from an employer. They can also sift through more choices and the lower paying, less desirable jobs go unfilled while those owners complain that nobody wants to work.

And if their “excellent” online application system messes up, good luck trying to get anyone who can help.   DS applied for a job last year and they had a minor issue where those who applied during an update it deleted their social security numbers.  There was no way to add it back and they could not figure out how to get someone to help.  It was ridiculous.  

[Heartstrings]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

guess I don’t understand why any of that made ds angry.  He is starting a new job in a few weeks where he won’t be dealing with retail customers.  It is warehouse work but not retail. Hopefully that will make life easier on him.

That would make me angry!  The manager isn’t doing his job.  The computer system isn’t accurate.  The customer didn’t check to see if what he needed was there, who does that at someplace like Lowes?  I would of course act professionally but just reading that makes me angry.  Add in the high likelihood of getting yelled at by the customer and the manager both, and being asked to solve a problem without being given the authority to do so, of course he’s mad.  Really the only person who could solve that is the manager, I’m guessing your son can’t make the decision to sell a more expensive product for the lower price, so why waste time by not just going to the manager to begin with.  

[SKL]

Well, recently there were artificial financial disincentives to working, which I observed some of our employees taking.  Not sure to what extent that remains true today.  But that is surely part of the overall story these days.

As the parent of teens, I observe:

• Some teens have jobs just like when we were kids.
• Some teens will say they want to work, but they don't actually knock on the obvious doorsteps of opportunity.  [They don't want to do "that kind" of work.]  Or they procrastinate until their chance is gone.
  • I'm sure this also happened in the past, but in my day, there wasn't much else to do besides homework, household chores, and working for pay.  Nowadays life for a slacker is relatively interesting and easy.  (At least where I live.)
• Suburban planning does make it more difficult for teens to take the initiative if they don't have their own transportation (which, if your folks had that kind of money, would you need to flip burgers?).
• And there are different rules now that take away some options from young people.  My first "jobs" were paper routes and babysitting, both of which are not available (or as readily available) to teens today.  Not sure if any other rules have been added ... I know my kid lost a job in late summer due to very limited availability (legally) during the school year.

A new restaurant is opening up and has a "now hiring" sign out.  It's walkable from my kids' high school.  Yesterday I mentioned this to the 3 15/16yo girls in my car, who said to each other, "should we work there?"  We'll see if they give it a try.

Edited November 3, 2022 by SKL

[vonfirmath]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

That would make me angry!  The manager isn’t doing his job.  The computer system isn’t accurate.  The customer didn’t check to see if what he needed was there, who does that at someplace like Lowes?  I would of course act professionally but just reading that makes me angry.  Add in the high likelihood of getting yelled at by the customer and the manager both, and being asked to solve a problem without being given the authority to do so, of course he’s mad.  Really the only person who could solve that is the manager, I’m guessing your son can’t make the decision to sell a more expensive product for the lower price, so why waste time by not just going to the manager to begin with.  

See. I would not automatically get mad. I'd try to solve and save actually getting mad until one of these things happened -- the customer yelled at me or the manager blamed me. Etc.

Often "the system was not updated" because it may have been out of the hands of the person it was reported to as well.

[Jane in NC]

I live in a community that is popular with retirees, one that also has skyrocketing real estate and rental prices.  Teachers and law enforcement officers are having a hard time finding affordable housing where I live.

Nonetheless, more forests are being cleared to build fast food restaurants, still more mattress stores, car washes, oil change places...And of course the ubiquitous Dollar General.

I have known retirees who enjoyed working part time at Lowes Home Improvement but people who have purchased either retirement homes or second (third) homes in my community are not going to work at McDonald's.  I'm not sure where they expect their landscaping crews, barristas, CNAs, etc to live. Nor do I understand why anyone would think that these folks should have jobs without health insurance.

But back to the initial question on young people not wanting to work:  I know no young person who expects handouts.  Yet corporations seem to believe that handouts from the government are just fine for their employees. I'm looking at you, Walmart.  How many employees there require SNAP benefits to survive? Shareholders, on the other hand, seem to be doing just fine.

 

[KungFuPanda]

Can we also talk about how job-hopping is the only reliable way to get a raise sometimes?

[Farrar]

18 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Can we get a dig in about the online hiring process during this discussion?  It's a little disconcerting.  People send out a gajillion resumes at the touch of a button and it's hard to know if they ever get into the hands of the person hiring.  That person could be receiving a gajillion resumes and is wading through them?  Sometimes you can find a phone number and talk to a person, but that's not universally the case.  When I was a teen looking for work, I walked into the establishment, asked for a resume, filled it out in ink, returned it, and was either given an interview on the spot or told when to expect a call for one.  Now you can go for weeks without ever knowing if a person read your resume.  I do love the efficiency of it all, but the follow up is lacking.  Of course people are going to look elsewhere if they never hear from an employer. They can also sift through more choices and the lower paying, less desirable jobs go unfilled while those owners complain that nobody wants to work.

Exactly.

My kid sent in a ton of applications and heard nothing back. This includes at places that are understaffed. With signs up. Complaining about no workers. But they were all these corporate places. We ended up using some personal connections to get him his job. A friend of a friend/acquaintance who I sort of know said on FB that her dh's restaurant would hire him if he went for an interview. And it worked out great. But it's like, this is absurd. 

[SKL]

12 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It’s demoralizing.  You fill out a million applications and can’t even get Dollar General to call back, meanwhile you SEE the hiring signs.  It leaves these kids feeling like they are being rejected.  My son has filled out a couple hundred apps online. I’m at a loss on how to help at this point.  If you go in to talk to a human you get pointed online. We’re new to the area so I don’t have connections I can pull from.

Seems like it would make sense to go in and talk to a human, make the connection, and then apply online, and then follow up with the human.

If I were hiring, I'd hire the person who came in, for several reasons.  It shows more proactivity/energy, I get to see the real person vs. a potentially fake online persona, and this person has exhibited some level of interpersonal skills.

My kid went into a new store and asked about jobs.  She was advised to email her resume, which she did, and she was selected for the job (though that fell through due to wage-and-hour laws).  I told her to stay in touch and maybe she'd be a preferred choice when they are hiring for next summer.

[teachermom2834]

While we are griping about online applications how about the ones that make you go through the whole personality test just to apply? We would have to sit down with our teens and help them beat these stupid tests to get through that part of the process. And then they ask you what hours you are available to work so you block out the hours you have school…but then you find out from someone in the know that the system just kicks out anyone that doesn’t put full open availability. So there is a whole process of having to beat the application just to get a call. 
 

Some of those personality tests ask the craziest questions. Some I don’t know how to answer let alone a 16 yo. 
 

A couple years ago my then 16 yo needed a resume and two in person interviews for Chik Fil A. 
 

Every place has a sign up that they are hiring yet I don’t have the expectation that I could go out this afternoon and come home with a job. Of all the things in our lives technology has improved the job hunt for teens is not one. 

[itsheresomewhere]

13 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

While we are griping about online applications how about the ones that make you go through the whole personality test just to apply? We would have to sit down with our teens and help them beat these stupid tests to get through that part of the process. And then they ask you what hours you are available to work so you block out the hours you have school…but then you find out from someone in the know that the system just kicks out anyone that doesn’t put full open availability. So there is a whole process of having to beat the application just to get a call. 
 

Some of those personality tests ask the craziest questions. Some I don’t know how to answer let alone a 16 yo. 
 

A couple years ago my then 16 yo needed a resume and two in person interviews for Chik Fil A. 
 

Every place has a sign up that they are hiring yet I don’t have the expectation that I could go out this afternoon and come home with a job. Of all the things in our lives technology has improved the job hunt for teens is not one. 

The personality questions need to go for a lot of jobs.  There are some that need it but most don’t. 

[Heartstrings]

30 minutes ago, SKL said:

Seems like it would make sense to go in and talk to a human, make the connection, and then apply online, and then follow up with the human.

If I were hiring, I'd hire the person who came in, for several reasons.  It shows more proactivity/energy, I get to see the real person vs. a potentially fake online persona, and this person has exhibited some level of interpersonal skills.

My kid went into a new store and asked about jobs.  She was advised to email her resume, which she did, and she was selected for the job (though that fell through due to wage-and-hour laws).  I told her to stay in touch and maybe she'd be a preferred choice when they are hiring for next summer.

If only it worked that way.  It’s also an absurd waste of time.  Drive across town, talk to the Manager on Duty, that is probably not the one making hiring decisions, tell that person you are going to apply online, apply online, go back a few days later, hey, I applied.  All with no guarantee that you’ll get hired.  Rinse and repeat with 20 places.  That’s a lot of gas money I’m shelling out for my kid to make $11 and hour for 20 hours a week.  
 
 

What actually happens though is that everyone in the store is annoyed because you’re taking up time, the manager you talk to isn’t the one making decisions and they just tell you to fill out an app online. 
 

Given that nothing else is working though, I may have to do just that.   All for him to stock at Harbor Freight or Walmart.

The elephant in the room is these places aren’t really hiring.  The are pretending they are so the public feels bad for them and blames kids not wanting to work, while the lowered cost of payroll goes to shareholders and profits. They get all the reward and none of the ire.  The public blames kids, blames the president, blames checks that went out 2 years ago that most young people looking for jobs now weren’t even eligible for.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Pawz4me]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

 

The elephant in the room is these places aren’t really hiring.  The are pretending they are so the public feels bad for them and blames kids not wanting to work, while the lowered cost of payroll goes to shareholders and profits. They get all the reward and none of the ire.  The public blames kids, blames the president, blames checks that went out 2 years ago that most young people looking for jobs now weren’t even eligible for.  

Yep, from what I can gather that often does seem to be the elephant in the room. I only really know from reading our community FB page. But someone will post about the job situation and SO many people will chime in and say "my [son/daughter/grandkid, etc.] filled out the online application three weeks ago but nobody ever responded." If it's just one or two people you feel like maybe they're just trolling, or maybe the kid told them they submitted an application but really didn't. But when it's many, many people posting the exact same scenario you have to believe there's truth to it.

[SKL]

6 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

If only it worked that way.  It’s also an absurd waste of time.  Drive across town, talk to the Manager on Duty, that is probably not the one making hiring decisions, tell that person you are going to apply online, apply online, go back a few days later, hey, I applied.  All with no guarantee that you’ll get hired.  Rinse and repeat with 20 places.  That’s a lot of gas money I’m shelling out for my kid to make $11 and hour for 20 hours a week.  
Given that nothing else is working though, I may have to do just that.   All for him to stock at Harbor Freight or Walmart. 

Well it's not like getting a job was any easier when we were young.  Yep, we had to go in and darken every doorstep until we landed somewhere that was interested in someone like us.  For that matter, afaik that's how it is for mature adults too.

(And mom driving the kids to do this?  No chance of that in my life history.)

Is someone telling kids that getting a job is easy, like their definition of easy?  Because that could explain some of the issue.

Edited November 3, 2022 by SKL

[teachermom2834]

28 minutes ago, SKL said:

Seems like it would make sense to go in and talk to a human, make the connection, and then apply online, and then follow up with the human.

If I were hiring, I'd hire the person who came in, for several reasons.  It shows more proactivity/energy, I get to see the real person vs. a potentially fake online persona, and this person has exhibited some level of interpersonal skills.

My kid went into a new store and asked about jobs.  She was advised to email her resume, which she did, and she was selected for the job (though that fell through due to wage-and-hour laws).  I told her to stay in touch and maybe she'd be a preferred choice when they are hiring for next summer.

Yes this does make perfect sense! It just doesn’t work this way in our experience. I am sure it does for one in 20 places or so but if you just walk into a chain sandwich shop or retail store the chance of it working out this way is super slim. Someone with no interest in whether or not you get the job will tell you to go online or will tell you to call some number that does or does not connect to anything for a job that does or does not exist. 
 

One of my kids did have luck doing this and encountering the owner of a small franchise restaurant (who said she hired him because she thought he was handsome and looked Christian so there is that). I think hiring events where they advertise they are doing open interviews at a set time are more promising. But in general some customer service person does not want to be bothered by someone coming in asking about a job. Definitely a stroke of luck when it works out that way. We have asked on a whim when we are in somewhere and that seems as likely to work as going out intentionally.

[Heartstrings]

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well it's not like getting a job was any easier when we were young.  Yep, we had to go in and darken every doorstep until we landed somewhere that was interested in someone like us.  For that matter, afaik that's how it is for mature adults too.

Is someone telling kids that getting a job is easy, like their definition of easy?  Because that could explain some of the issue.

I walked into McDs at 16, filled out an application, interviewed on the spot and started 2 days later. The day I quit McDs I walked next door to Wendy’s and did the same.  

 I wasn’t expected to drive there to chat, go home, apply online, drive back to chat more and then never hear back, from places that are crying about being desperate.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by Heartstrings

[*****]

I'm sure there are several reasons.  Perhaps 1 reason is that some parents don't even think about the importance of expecting their child to be a contributor to the family. I mean, by simply expecting their child from an early age to do chores around the house. That would mean the parent would need to teach the child how to and then to follow up-you know, just parent. But that would mean the parent would have to get their nose out of their electronics tooo, and that could be a bother for some.

I had a 3rd grader once, rather big for his age who always came in with the latest and most expensive basketball shoes. We were in a rather poor area,  but he always had the best clothes and he wasn't afraid to talk about them. I knew besides sports, that he liked to play video games. I asked him once after a huge snowstorm if he helped his family by shoveling the driveway (how else would you get out to go to basketball practice?!).  He looked at me as if I had 2 heads...they never made him do anything around the house.  So if you are raised that way, to get what ever you wanted without contributing, you are not being taught work ethic and mom and dad will always provide...right?!🙄

 

 

[SKL]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

I walked into McDs at 16, filled out an application, interviewed on the spot and started 2 days later.  I wasn’t expected to drive there to chat, apply online, drive back to chat more and then never hear back, from places that are crying about being desperate.  

Lucky you!  Where I lived, the nearest McD's was 12 miles away so ....

Most of us didn't and don't get jobs that easily, especially not without past experience and/or connections.  It's challenging, stressful, time-consuming, but not hopeless.

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

Most of us didn't and don't get jobs that easily, especially not without past experience and/or connections.  It's challenging, stressful, time-consuming, but not hopeless.

As the parent of a young adult looking for work it feels hopeless, to them AND to me as parent.  When you were a teen did people really apply to 50+ local places and hear back nothing? For entry level jobs like a cashier or stocker?   From places who were crying about being desperate for any warm body?

[itsheresomewhere]

2 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I walked into McDs at 16, filled out an application, interviewed on the spot and started 2 days later.  I wasn’t expected to drive there to chat, apply online, drive back to chat more and then never hear back, from places that are crying about being desperate.  

That was how it was for me for several jobs years ago.  I applied on the spot, had an interview either that day or was scheduled for one within a few days and started with a few days.  The only job that took longer was one that was specialized.  We did a phone interview, then in person and then hired.

So many places around here won’t even take an resume in person as it has to be done online.  The last job hunt for DH was interesting. One company- They called him to apply. He applied online, had multiple interviews, and then when hired had to do another job application online repeating the same stuff as this application was directly with the company and not a service.  

[Faith-manor]

6 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

As the parent of a young adult looking for work it feels hopeless, to them AND to me as parent.  When you were a teen did people really apply to 50+ local places and hear back nothing? For entry level jobs like a cashier or stocker?   From places who were crying about being desperate for any warm body?

I think it is all smoke and mirrors. Whine whine whine about not having emplpyees, but in reality not hiring at all just perpetuating the myth, and as a way to artificially keep wages low. "Oh look,these lazy young people. They aren't worth paying." Followed by more whining. It is more profitable to run on a skeleton staff that management rides like rented mules to get it all done. Customer service means exactly nothing to most businesses. One of the supermarkets in the county seat routinely only has one cashier, and had complained for four straight years about not being able to hire folks except that they have also accepted hundreds of applications. They have no intention of hiring because they don't give a crap how long customers wait. They also have very little competition. What might change their tune is that Aldis has come to town and opens mid-Nov. That is the kind of competition that might put a crimp in their evil little style because if the products are good, and there are enough cashiers to check out in a timely manner, people will absolutely jump ship to Aldis.

[Condessa]

Well, there has been a major political push in the U.S. from a lot of young people to have taxpayers pay off their personal education loans for them.  So I don’t think it’s surprising that there’s a general perception that many young people want free money without having to work, at least in this country, since that’s exactly what has been sought and is being given.

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Seems like it would make sense to go in and talk to a human, make the connection, and then apply online, and then follow up with the human.

32 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

If only it worked that way.  It’s also an absurd waste of time.  Drive across town, talk to the Manager on Duty, that is probably not the one making hiring decisions, tell that person you are going to apply online, apply online, go back a few days later, hey, I applied.  All with no guarantee that you’ll get hired.  Rinse and repeat with 20 places.  That’s a lot of gas money I’m shelling out for my kid to make $11 and hour for 20 hours a week.  
 
 

What actually happens though is that everyone in the store is annoyed because you’re taking up time, the manager you talk to isn’t the one making decisions and they just tell you to fill out an app online. 

And seriously let's just remind ourselves this isn't to work for a prestigious law firm where one day you could make partner. This is a minimum wage, something to do over the summer gig, that hopefully some college or something finds interesting. Unless you have connections, I can tell you the hiring manager has more pressing things to do than to talk to you. I didn't do this for my six-figure salary job (career fairs and scrounging all possible connections got me my first job). Why are we thinking this is what people should be doing to work at McDonald's?

[teachermom2834]

I do remember in the 1990s in the area I lived applying for a lot of jobs as a high schooler before I got one at Burger King. And it was frustrating. But I do not remember going to eat with my family or running errands and seeing signs on doors all over town that said “closed due to no staff”. That is the situation now. Sometimes dh and I will plan to grab dinner while my dd is at dance and there are all kinds of quick service strip mall type places where we are. We always talk about where to go and say “we will see what is open” because those signs on the doors are so common. That is the difference. So it is hard to get a job (and keep a job because crazy scheduling demands) while people screaming no one wants to work.
 

I have a super soft spot for all service workers and I’m slow to blame them for anything, really, but now I see those signs and I don’t even believe them. I just think the people that work there had something else they wanted to go do. The terms of service have just changed. They will be open if they want to I guess. They will have to answer to corporate or their vendors. I don’t really have a right to my sandwich or my tacos so I don’t get mad about it. But I don’t really know that it is 100% lack of workers. 

 

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, bolt. said:

So what leads to this problem: Is it lazy working? Or is it inactive supervision? Or both. "Good work ethic" enables lazy supervision. Good supervision leads to jobs getting done correctly and satisfactorily regardless of work-ethics. It's a joint responsibility that doesn't fall solely to a worker working solo. (I know this from my homeschooling journey! But maybe more business owners need to face the reality that direct employee management is an important role: and it's been slack for a long time.)

Active supervision is of course needed, and I think my dad's grocery store provides it. That said, there's no way they could afford to hire enough workers to check every can and box a teenage stocker puts on the shelf, and they shouldn't need to do so. I do think it is a simple enough job that once the teens learn it, it is laziness on their part not to do it right. 

The store does hire people with disabilities and they have extra scaffolding provided as needed--but often the workers with disabilities do a better job in the end than some people without them.

Edited November 3, 2022 by MercyA

[wintermom]

This summer (July 2022), my ds 16 filled out a few online applications to McDonalds and Tim Hortons, got interviews and offered position at both within a week or two. He took the McDonald job, and really enjoed it. His older brother, ds 18, was inspired, and was hired at a different McDonalks within a couple weeks. 

The online hiring process worked this summer for both my boys in an Ontario, Canada city. In addition, I should add that the training they received and the progressive stages they learned the various work stations seemed to be excellent at McDonalds. I was impressed. 

[rebcoola]

DD was just yanked around by the local paint ball entertainment center.  They put on a huge Halloween event with paintball shooting zombies, a Haunted house and various other Halloween events. She went to the in person hiring event.  She got an interview was called a few days later to say she got the job. Was told she would be working inside at the laser tag. Was given an app to fill out all the paperwork did that I helped. She got an email that she was good and schedules would be sent soon. 3 days before the first day it was supposed to open she called.   Is told they are having issues and festival opening will be delayed a week.  Next week still no schedule. She calls and emails never hears back from anyone.  No idea what happened.  Ghosted by a job feels great to a new 16 yr old.

[Elfknitter.#]

Along the ghosted by a job line, my kid was ghosted for interviews. Did all the hoops, got ready, showed up, no one there. Or the person who was supposed to be doing the interviews wasn't in/ sick/ etc. They tried to reschedule only to never hear back.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Elfknitter.#

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

As the parent of a young adult looking for work it feels hopeless, to them AND to me as parent.  When you were a teen did people really apply to 50+ local places and hear back nothing? For entry level jobs like a cashier or stocker?   From places who were crying about being desperate for any warm body?

We didn't have 50+ local places to apply to, and there was no internet (or email or fax for that matter), so it was borrowing a car/taking a bus to a shopping center, physically going in each door and asking for a paper application, having a conversation, returning the physical application, times however many dozens of storefronts, and hoping that one of the dozens of businesses might call me.  (Excruciating as an extreme introvert!)  But it was that, or have a ridiculous "resume" with no "work experience."

Later, once I had some more specific experience / education, it was mailing my resume and cover letter to dozens of places.  Even later, meeting with a headhunter who matched me to relatively appropriate jobs, though most of those didn't pan out either.

I don't know, and I don't want to know, how many jobs I've applied for that never contacted me back.  Well over a hundred for sure, and I think that is historically pretty normal.

And when I was doing the hiring, I would receive so many resumes (via physical mail), they would fill an entire file drawer just for one (professional / skilled / advertised 1x) job opening.  Out of all those people, I would interview about 3 and hire only 1.  It doesn't mean the other candidates were being treated unfairly, or that I wasn't truly hiring.

[teachermom2834]

35 minutes ago, Elfknitter.# said:

Along the ghosted by a job line, my kid was ghosted for interviews. Did all the hoops, got ready, showed up, no one there. Or the person who was supposed to be doing the interviews wasn't in/ sick/ etc. They tried to reschedule only to never hear back.

 

Yeah it seems like teens could turn it around on the hiring managers sometimes with the “these people don’t want to work. They don’t return calls or check emails or update the online application portal. They don’t show up to interviews or make schedules. No one wants to work anymore!!”

[Faith-manor]

18 minutes ago, Elfknitter.# said:

Along the ghosted by a job line, my kid was ghosted for interviews. Did all the hoops, got ready, showed up, no one there. Or the person who was supposed to be doing the interviews wasn't in/ sick/ etc. They tried to reschedule only to never hear back.

 

This happened to ds as well. The good news was that the first job that ghosted him was because an HR person quit without notice due. He ended up hearing through the grape vine that the person was diagnosed with a really bad, fast moving cancer and had to go on hospice immediately. 😢 So he went on to interview other places, and almost accepted an offer at another company when out of the blue, the first company called him, explained it was a fluke, heartedly and humbly apologized, and begged him to interview. They interviewed him right away, and made an offer same day. It was a very good offer and research indicated it was a highly rated by employees, and had a reputation in that city for being primo employment that people really covet. He accepted it and started ten days later. Whirlwind move! But he is really loving it, and is making friends with his coworkers. It was in the same city, same side of the city as his middle brother who is working at a museum - our budding archaeologist and historian - so he moved right in with his brother, and they are sharing expenses. They took their first vacation together, a long weekend in Chicago with lifelong friends from their rocket team years.

So it did work out well in the end. But man, ds at first took a real hit in the self esteem teeth when he was first ghosted, and then the total lack of communication about it for so long. It would be nice if companies and businesses had back up people for HR interviewers so they didn't waste applicants' time, and make them feel like crap.

Rolls Royce was the worse. Ghosted the first interview - online zoom, sent the link, and then no one showed. he sent 3 rmails, no responses. They called two weeks later to set it up again. The interviewer was late, very late. Ds had almost walked away from the computer, a couple of seconds from tapping out, when the person arrived. No apology. And then two months of ZERO follow up, though ds sent two emails to ask if there was any additional information he could provide, only to be ghosted. Then AFTER he started work at his current company, two full months later, gets a phone call and job offer from R.R. and then was cussed out because apparently how dare he accept gainful employment elsewhere after being ghosted! That company is on his permanent axe list now. He may consider a move to Raytheon, Northrop G, or other company with aerospace contracts in the future, but R.R. won't get another look. Funnily, their parting shot was that they were extra miffed because of all the new college hires they interviewed for the aerospace division, he was the only E.E. with an aerospace background. Well yup. 4 years TARC, 2 years NASA SL, and a year of IREC. Team captain/manager for SL and IREC. Well, dingdongs, you snooze you lose!

I really feel like HR in general at many businesses has gone off the rails in the last five years. I hear similar stories from so many people seeking employment.

[Wheres Toto]

Back in the 80's I definitely walked into Burger King (first job), Kmart (most of HS job) to fill out an application and started a few days later.

I do thing the idea of what a "good" employee is has changed.  Young people are not willing to go "above and beyond" because they understand that the employers are not going to show them any loyalty at all.   Why bust your butt doing more than what's asked for someone who will screw you over with hours, fire you at the drop of a hat if you start making too much money, and treat you like crap?    And that's before dealing with abusive customers with managers that won't stand up for you, or abusive managers. 

Ds just finished up his first ever job.  He's on the spectrum, has SPD, is gifted and also just started college, so we are very concerned about his employability.   He worked at Spirit Halloween for the season.   Perfect first job for him, they followed the hours he told them he could work, he could wear his own clothes (or costumes), and most of the customers were not cranky and mean because it was a place they went for fun stuff not necessities.   But it did take them forever to get back to him, we had to drive farther to interview before the local store was opened, and he didn't get a ton of hours.    I doubt his experience would have been as successful in a more typical retail store.  

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

Back in the 80's I definitely walked into Burger King (first job), Kmart (most of HS job) to fill out an application and started a few days later.

I do thing the idea of what a "good" employee is has changed.  Young people are not willing to go "above and beyond" because they understand that the employers are not going to show them any loyalty at all.   Why bust your butt doing more than what's asked for someone who will screw you over with hours, fire you at the drop of a hat if you start making too much money, and treat you like crap?    And that's before dealing with abusive customers with managers that won't stand up for you, or abusive managers. 

Ds just finished up his first ever job.  He's on the spectrum, has SPD, is gifted and also just started college, so we are very concerned about his employability.   He worked at Spirit Halloween for the season.   Perfect first job for him, they followed the hours he told them he could work, he could wear his own clothes (or costumes), and most of the customers were not cranky and mean because it was a place they went for fun stuff not necessities.   But it did take them forever to get back to him, we had to drive farther to interview before the local store was opened, and he didn't get a ton of hours.    I doubt his experience would have been as successful in a more typical retail store.  

Spot on. One reason the older generations view GenZ as entitled is simply that GenZ realizes they are screwed top to bottom. They will pay in gobs of money to Medicare and SS to support the elderly now, and then it will be bankrupted, and they will not get a dime. They are priced hilariously out of the housing market such that they have no hope of NOT having roommates for forever in digs that landlords actually properly maintain. Their purchasing power is bizarrely less than previous generations, they are constantly maligned by their elders, unions have been gutted, management and executives are the Lords and the serfs have no hope of getting ahead, educational and job training is beyond their ability to afford without record debt, they can't afford healthcare, and they will end up getting the least benefit of their tax dollars of anyone in the last 100 years. They aren't playing. They aren't taking it laying down. They have NO incentive to take this crap. At some point, if they hold out, the Lords of the land will have no one to do their bidding since immigration has ground to a halt and the birth rate is in a free fall. The Lords that cave and are forced to institute humane policies and living wages will be the ones that win the workers. A lot of businesses will go under. For the most part, I think a tremendous amount of retail, restauranting, convenience shopping/fueling stations and the like will disappear.

I don't blame them one little bit. The earth has been plundered to boot. They don't exactly have a whole lot of reason to become loyal employees when it is exclusively one sided, and they are inheriting a nightmare. I am thankful that my son in law, and sons have landed jobs with fair wages for their work, and family friendly policies. They also understand how damn fortunate they are to have landed such unicorn jobs. The vast majority of their friends have not been that lucky.

[Soror]

I'd be interested to see the actual statistics. So much varies by location and there is so much confirmation bias. 

I know plenty of teens working. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that we are middle class and our kid's friends are mostly middle class. The kids who are higher income are significantly less likely to work. Even of the parents I know who grew up working if they have made it into higher income brackets the chances of their kids working is small. But for us in middle/lower class it is often a necessity. Teenagers are hella busy, moving towards independence, and there is no public transportation. It is a luxury we don't have to have kids not work. 

My son started working at McDonald's at 16. He quit for a couple of months due to health issues (he gave a proper 2 week notice). Other than having Covid  (towards the beginning of Covid so he was on quarantine and had to miss) he's missed two days due to sickness, although he honestly should have stayed home some days he went. He wasn't afraid they'd fire him or anything he just didn't want to miss as he thought it looked bad. He tried another job when he went back to working. The boss (locally owned franchise) made it clear that he would never give him breaks and he wouldn't be allowed to eat, no matter the length of his shifts. I pushed him to quit, at that point he went back to McDonald's. He makes $14.5 an hour. They give him the schedule he wants and it is pretty much the same every week. He gets breaks. He gets free and discounted food at work (not a plus to me but he's a teenage boy). It's not glamorous or prestigious but for a job for spending money it fits the bill. There is little reason to look elsewhere for another job. His chances of finding as good or better pay and better treatment are slim.

 The crappy job he quit of course has a shortage of employers. My brother went a couple of months later and they opened late and didn't have anyone working except family. They were griping about lazy kids not wanting to work. Locally it seems big employers are often a better bet for more fair treatment than the local people. (To be clear, I certainly don't think the big companies care more about their employees but are more apt to be called out for it and face backlash. ) Complaints by owners that their workers don't deserve raises and are greedy yet they are doing very well for themselves and complaining about retention. It's the same thing as in big companies just a smaller scale. The people on top feel that the little guys don't deserve to have a living wage and should be able to make do. 

And It's not surprising teens (or anyone else for that matter) don't want to work at McD or other similar places. Tons of people make comments about how horrible these jobs are and put down people that work there (subtly or not). I get it when I tell people my son works at McDonald's. 

[Soror]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

This summer (July 2022), my ds 16 filled out a few online applications to McDonalds and Tim Hortons, got interviews and offered position at both within a week or two. He took the McDonald job, and really enjoed it. His older brother, ds 18, was inspired, and was hired at a different McDonalks within a couple weeks. 

The online hiring process worked this summer for both my boys in an Ontario, Canada city. In addition, I should add that the training they received and the progressive stages they learned the various work stations seemed to be excellent at McDonalds. I was impressed. 

I hope it is a good experience for both of them. Ds' girlfriend just got on at his McDonald's so he's training her now. I'm hoping it works out for her too.