ACT test scores drop to their lowest in 30 years

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Maybe the person was referring to this table in the ACT report (page 24 of 36). While DS17 is considered class of 2022, he took the ACT in 6th grade so no idea if his score is included in the report. He did hit all the benchmarks https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/2022/2022-National-ACT-Profile-Report.pdf

Are a bunch of freshman taking the ACT? How else do you explain the relatively high percentages (32-34) having no English, no Math, no SS, or no Science!?!

[Arcadia]

18 minutes ago, Frances said:

Are a bunch of freshman taking the ACT? How else do you explain the relatively high percentages (32-34) having no English, no Math, no SS, or no Science!?!

CTY JHU, Northwestern Talent Search, Duke TIP (stopped existing) and other middle school talent search programs take ACT or SAT scores as qualifiers. 
 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Arcadia
deleted scores

[Frances]

2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

CTY JHU, Northwestern Talent Search, Duke TIP (stopped existing) and other middle school talent search programs take ACT or SAT scores as qualifiers. 
Like I said, DS17 belongs to the class of 2022. He took in early 6th grade and his scores were 34E, 35M, 32R, 27S, 32C. He did have algebra 1 and geometry, no English, no social studies and no high school level science.

Yea, but it seems hard to believe that 1/3 of test takers are doing so for talent search reasons. I would expect something like 1-2%.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Frances

[teachermom2834]

6 minutes ago, Frances said:

Do you think it’s because in lots of high school math classes, HW and extra credit compromise too much of the grade? I never turned in math HW in high school or college, although of course it was assigned. Our grades were based entirely on exams. Then after a year of grad school in Psychology at a state university where again, my grades in my three Stats classes were based entirely on exams and projects, I transferred to an Ivy League U and switched to Statistics. Suddenly I was not only handing in three problem sets every week for grading, but I was grading about 30 per week as a TA. And the culture was just very different. Students would try to argue over every little point on HW and exams and when some of them didn’t get the results they wanted, they would go to the professor. Prior to this, I had always been taught that HW was our responsibility because it was how you learned and mastered the material. We could always ask questions and get help, but ultimately, it was in our own best interest to do it. But we didn’t get any points or grades for doing it. It was just expected.

I have a kid in school for the first time ever. She is in 9th grade a a good private school. Not a fancy competitive prep school just a decent better than public school performing place. 
 

Oh my goodness the grading is something to behold. So many participation grades and homework grades and PowerPoint presentation grades and grades for getting your thesis statement approved and grades for doing the quizlet etc etc. and really the tests and quizzes get buried in all the grades. My dd is a good student but she has classes where she has 100 average and has a few lower grades in there but so many 100s she can still have 100 average even with a couple lower quizzes. 
 

She had a class with a couple zeros on assignments she missed or the teacher didn’t see she turned in and she had a 98 quarter average. How can you have a 98 average with multiple zeros?? Because so many grades!!! So by the time you weight grades for honors and APs you can absolutely have someone getting lower test scores and not mastering the material and still making a 4.0 because so so many grades to dilute the test grades. 

My dd has some classes that enter a 100 participation grade every time the class meets. 

Now I know why my dh who teaches community college classes has students so flabbergasted that failing the tests means they don’t get a B in the class. 

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, Frances said:

Yea, but it seems hard to believe that 1/3 of test takers are doing so for talent search reasons. I would expect something like 1-2%.

Another reason could be people aren’t going to be so “hardworking” as to answer the questions on the questionnaire for classes taken. I know my teens skipped those questions because they are optional. I think College Board has similar questions and my teens only answered those once for the fun of it. 

[Frances]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Another reason could be people aren’t going to be so “hardworking” as to answer the questions on the questionnaire for classes taken. I know my teens skipped those questions because they are optional. I think College Board has similar questions and my teens only answered those once for the fun of it. 

Interesting theory. Those groups tend to have the lowest % reaching mastery, so maybe there is some correlation or causation going on there?

[Arcadia]

5 minutes ago, Frances said:

Interesting theory. Those groups tend to have the lowest % reaching mastery, so maybe there is some correlation or causation going on there?

Page 2 of 8 is what I meant. My teens skipped those questions 

https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/ACT-StudentInfoBooklet.pdf

 

[vonfirmath]

On 10/14/2022 at 5:35 PM, Terabith said:

Yeah, we elected not to do AP English, but apparently zero instruction takes place in non AP English.  It’s been enlightening.  

Im afraid of this

[Terabith]

Just now, vonfirmath said:

Im afraid of this

I mean, honestly, I don’t care.  My youngest child does an amazing amount of unschooling on a staggering array of topics. She’s not getting her education from school.  School is where she goes for social contact, to take excellent fine arts classes and electives, and to get credentials that make college admission easier (AP classes, foreign language that would be tough for me to replicate, use of science lab, etc.). 

[EmilyGF]

8 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

Im afraid of this

We had the same experience, with non-AP English teaching next to nothing. Now my kid who is a super slow reader is in AP Lit... and he loves his teacher and is actually learning something. (First English teacher he's even respected. He's a senior.)

DD15 has learned and is not choosing non AP for anything that isn't in the summer.

But the AP classes are really top notch. Much better than the AP classes I took at a top-100 high school in the 1990s.

[Arcadia]

Related

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/highlights/ltt/2022/
“

“

[bookbard]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Related

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/highlights/ltt/2022/

So I was reading a thread on twitter where a lot of teachers (from the USA) were really panicking over what they were seeing in the classroom. Huge absences meaning kids have missed out on core information, and inability to do homework or focus in class.

The interesting thing is that in Australia, after we had very extended lockdowns but before Covid hit, they did a national standardised test and scores actually went up. They have not yet published the results for this year, after Covid has wreaked havoc across Australia, and it will be very interesting to see what happens. If, as I suspect, it is uncontrolled Covid (meaning sickness and the chaos of missing teachers, blended classes, and unpredictability) rather than lockdowns which lead to terrible results, will anyone admit it? Probably not.  

[Clemsondana]

One other thing that will complicate this analysis is that states didn't have uniform policy.  In my state, the eastern part of the state was only closed for the 2 months at the end of the 2020 school year, while some of the bigger cities in the wester part of the state were closed for part (all? not sure) of the next school year.  How does that get accounted for in the data?

And, something that we recently realized is that school calendar plays a huge role.  In our area, many high school are on block schedules.  When schools were closed for 2 months, some kids lost, at most, 2 of the 9 months of learning.  For kids on block schedules, they lost almost 1/2 of the content for that course.  One mom is dealing with the catastrophic effect of her kid missing 1/2 of algebra, setting off a cascading effect of math struggles.  Alternatively, her kid could have missed 1/2 of the content for a schedule that was PE, Health/personal finance, band, and study hall, in which case there would be very little learning loss.  And, yes, I've seen kids whose schedules were that wonky, with most of their academics in one semester and many electives in the other.  They try to do 2 and 2 for the main subjects, but it doesn't always work that way.  

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, bookbard said:

So I was reading a thread on twitter where a lot of teachers (from the USA) were really panicking over what they were seeing in the classroom. Huge absences meaning kids have missed out on core information, and inability to do homework or focus in class.

The interesting thing is that in Australia, after we had very extended lockdowns but before Covid hit, they did a national standardised test and scores actually went up. They have not yet published the results for this year, after Covid has wreaked havoc across Australia, and it will be very interesting to see what happens. If, as I suspect, it is uncontrolled Covid (meaning sickness and the chaos of missing teachers, blended classes, and unpredictability) rather than lockdowns which lead to terrible results, will anyone admit it? Probably not.  

It also needs to factor in neurological and health issues post-covid. I have some kids for whom it made no difference and some who seemed to struggle more. I didn’t have them long before covid so I can’t say definitely that was the issue but maybe. My state only had about four weeks of school closure total so I’m doubtful that would have had a massive impact. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[DawnM]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:02 AM, Starr said:

Friends kids in private schools in NYC had testing practice as part of their English curriculum. Many also had private tutors. Back in the dark ages we just took the test before college, no prep.

I grew up overseas and went to boarding school (American boarding school.).  We were told we had to take a test given by the States and we needed to show up to the Biology building on Saturday morning at 8am.    I think some of the students asked questions and knew kind of what it was, but some of us had NO CLUE what the heck this test was for.   I just showed up.   I did make it into college, but sheesh, I might have prepped a little and taken it more seriously had I thought it actually meant something.

[Arcadia]

@bookbard There is also the issue of unequal access to computers and the internet. Where I live, the district did not issue out laptops but they did leave the WiFi on at the schools and library. My friend’s district issued ipads and chromebooks a few years ago and has already helped the low income get subsidized internet access. Their district’s students are used to doing school work online. 

[ktgrok]

On 10/14/2022 at 11:23 AM, BusyMom5 said:

 

My unpopular opinion- this is the result of Common Core, NCLB, no more tracking in elementary school, and inclusion. 

 

I'd rephrase it as taking all control out of the hands of teachers, and dropping the very basics like how to write a sentence, etc. as well as a lack of tracking. There is NO WAY for a struggling reading student to make real progress when lumped in the same class/instruction as advanced and on level readers. 

[Drama Llama]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:26 PM, Frances said:

Are a bunch of freshman taking the ACT? How else do you explain the relatively high percentages (32-34) having no English, no Math, no SS, or no Science!?!

I suspect the explanation is that many people don't bother to fill out the optional section where you list things like what classes you take

[Frances]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

I suspect the explanation is that many people don't bother to fill out the optional section where you list things like what classes you take

But what’s interesting is that group generally has the lowest scores within each section.

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Frances said:

But what’s interesting is that group generally has the lowest scores within each section.

If I'm right, and I don't know that I am, it's not really surprising that people who don't care enough to fill out the first part of the form correctly don't put a lot of care into later parts of the test.

In addition, kids who struggle for whatever reason maybe less likely to plan on college, and therefore to take a test that is only useful for college admissions seriously.  So, kids who are already likely to do poorly may be the same kids who aren't invested enough to fill in all the bubbles.

[silver]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I suspect the explanation is that many people don't bother to fill out the optional section where you list things like what classes you take

It looks like they lump "zero years" of a subject with "no courses reported", but they separate out "have the core courses" and "does not have core" (with the last group presumably having reported courses).

[SKL]

Our high school requires all 11th graders to take the SAT.  Naturally this will produce lower average scores than if it was only taken by those preparing for college studies.

I assume the pandemic also caused part of the problem.  I was saying today ... not only was there a loss of instruction, but a loss of accountability.  Kids got away with way too much over the past 2.5 years.  They don't come prepared for class, so naturally they learn less.

And there's the trend toward essentially expecting the kids to teach themselves (this has been a thing in my kids' high school math program for years).  Put a bunch of 15yos in groups, with no textbooks, and tell them to figure out geometry.  What could go wrong?

Edited October 26, 2022 by SKL

[Roadrunner]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:51 PM, Terabith said:

My youngest has dyslexia and a host of other learning disabilities.  And yet, in her AP US History class, that I anticipated was going to be incredibly challenging for her, she somehow not only has a high A despite doing no out of class homework, but she’s purportedly one of the sought after kids for group work because she knows what the big words in documents like the Declaration of Independence mean and can scan for relevant information.  I honestly didn’t expect that “can understand what the Declaration of Independence says and means” would make someone a top student in AP US History.  That standard feels ridiculously low.  

Not surprised. Nobody is reading older texts in schools anymore, so the style of writing and vocab would be completely alien to kids. The most difficult book my son’s 9th grade PS course read was To Kill the Mockingbird. Everything else was written at a 5th grade level. Not to place judgement on actual content of the various books read (although most weren’t to my liking), these books wouldn’t build up vocabulary. They would have to work on that separately elsewhere. 
 

I am somewhat surprised at the scores. Since CA public universities no longer ask for scores, only the top performing kids are testing locally. Of course I didn’t know there were entire states out there that required all kids to take them. 

[shawthorne44]

I know from teachers that several school districts in my area put in this rule for the Spring 2021 final exams.   

Any kids that shows up, writes their name on the exam and turns it in, gets a 50 minimum.    

If it has one problem correct, then it is a 70 minimum.  

This was the rule from before the exams were given, so the schools knew that they'd failed miserably.  

[cintinative]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

 

And there's the trend toward essentially expecting the kids to teach themselves (this has been a thing in my kids' high school math program for years).  Put a bunch of 15yos in groups, with no textbooks, and tell them to figure out geometry.  What could go wrong?

This is probably a spin-off but can I just vent about my poor niece's class?  She has had the same math teacher for all her math since Geometry (she is currently in Calculus as a junior) and what he does, I would not consider teaching.  He assigns a lot of homework but provides no keys or answers so they have no idea if they have done it right, and often he assigns homework for material he didn't get to in class.  He also assigns loads of videos to watch basically because he is not getting to the material in class.  He gets angry when they don't know the material he hasn't even taught.  On average she has 60 calculus problems a night plus a bunch of videos.  They have quizzes just about twice a week, and often on material he never even taught.  I told my brother she would probably be better off self-teaching when you look at the time she is wasting in class where she is not learning. It is super ironic when he gets angry that they don't understand or remember some Geometry, Alg II or Precalc concept when he was the teacher for all of those classes.  They really tried to get her out of the class, to take something through FLVS or a college, but the school wouldn't let her.  They are thinking seriously of doing all college courses next year (her senior year). I really fear this guy has done major damage to her math education. If it weren't for my brother spending hours with her reteaching himself Calculus and working with her, she would be failing. 

[SKL]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

This is probably a spin-off but can I just vent about my poor niece's class?  She has had the same math teacher for all her math since Geometry (she is currently in Calculus as a junior) and what he does, I would not consider teaching.  He assigns a lot of homework but provides no keys or answers so they have no idea if they have done it right, and often he assigns homework for material he didn't get to in class.  He also assigns loads of videos to watch basically because he is not getting to the material in class.  He gets angry when they don't know the material he hasn't even taught.  On average she has 60 calculus problems a night plus a bunch of videos.  They have quizzes just about twice a week, and often on material he never even taught.  I told my brother she would probably be better off self-teaching when you look at the time she is wasting in class where she is not learning. It is super ironic when he gets angry that they don't understand or remember some Geometry, Alg II or Precalc concept when he was the teacher for all of those classes.  They really tried to get her out of the class, to take something through FLVS or a college, but the school wouldn't let her.  They are thinking seriously of doing all college courses next year (her senior year). I really fear this guy has done major damage to her math education. If it weren't for my brother spending hours with her reteaching himself Calculus and working with her, she would be failing. 

Yeah, I'm frustrated too.  My kids aren't math geniuses - they need proper instruction.  Even in my youngest's honors algebra II class, many kids are failing the tests.  It doesn't make sense at all.  You can't blame the kids when a roomful of bright, motivated students fail the test.

[LaughingCat]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:32 AM, Dmmetler said:

I think it would be interesting to look at the other test. In TN, the ACT is a graduation requirement in many districts. That means that a lot of kids take it who have no goals beyond the local CC or tech college (TN has an automatic scholarship for 2 year schools for high school graduates), know they don’t need a test score, and have no reason to try. 
 

The SAT, or even the PSAT. on the other hand, is only taken by college bound kids who have a need for it-which usually means those who have a prayer of NMS or who are applying to schools out of state.

According to 'prepmaven' site, there's about the same number of states that require the SAT as require the ACT to graduate....so just looking at the 'other' test doesn't necessarily show anything  (although it actually lists TN as one that allows either the ACT or the SAT so perhaps not up to date?)

Quote

Where is the SAT a Graduation Requirement?

The following states require high school students to take the SAT in order to graduate:

Colorado

Connecticut

Delaware

Illinois

Maine

Michigan (requirement waived for spring 2021 )

New Hampshire

Rhode Island

West Virginia

Where is the ACT a Graduation Requirement?

The ACT is a graduation requirement in the following states:

Hawaii

Kentucky  

Nebraska 

Montana 

North Carolina

Nevada

Wisconsin

Wyoming 

Alabama

Other State Testing Policies

There are some states that require students to take either the ACT or the SAT for graduation.

Here they are:

Ohio 

Oklahoma

Tennessee

Idaho (requirement waived for 2021-2022 )

 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Yeah, I'm frustrated too.  My kids aren't math geniuses - they need proper instruction.  Even in my youngest's honors algebra II class, many kids are failing the tests.  It doesn't make sense at all.  You can't blame the kids when a roomful of bright, motivated students fail the test.

They’ll blame the parents. That’s how it goes.  “Parents need to hold kids accountable” seems to be the party line.  

Edited October 26, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Terabith]

My youngest’s math education has been a hot mess.  She missed the last couple months of algebra because of the covid shutdown.  She took geometry online through a virtual school, and that actually worked well, partly because she’s conscientious and has parents who will help re-teach and help.  But she actually had instruction in geometry.  For algebra 2, she had the first semester with a sub who neither knew math nor how to control a high school class.  It was a disaster.  The school had the physics teacher take over second semester, but it was very hard since she’d really not been taught first semester algebra 2.  She’s taking functions, statistics, and trig this year, and her teacher is good but has cancer and is literally never there.  We’re trying to work with her at home, but she’s given up.  She says she’ll never understand math, and currently plans not to take any her senior year.  

[cintinative]

17 hours ago, Terabith said:

 We’re trying to work with her at home, but she’s given up.  She says she’ll never understand math, and currently plans not to take any her senior year.  

I love math, and this makes me really sad for her.

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I love math, and this makes me really sad for her.

I mean, she was never going to be someone who excelled in math.  Despite a high IQ, she has dyscalculia.  But up until March of algebra 1, she was doing well thanks to solid instruction.  And honestly, she’s doing very well this year, because due to her teacher’s frequent absences, they’re going very slowly and she really understands things before they move in.  But they aren’t covering the material that would lead her to be prepared for the next step.  

[matrips]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:26 PM, Frances said:

Are a bunch of freshman taking the ACT? How else do you explain the relatively high percentages (32-34) having no English, no Math, no SS, or no Science!?!

It says it’s data for graduating class of 2022, so guessing it was all juniors or all seniors.

[ScoutTN]

21 hours ago, LaughingCat said:

According to 'prepmaven' site, there's about the same number of states that require the SAT as require the ACT to graduate....so just looking at the 'other' test doesn't necessarily show anything  (although it actually lists TN as one that allows either the ACT or the SAT so perhaps not up to date?)

 

TN does require all public school students to take either the ACT or the SAT in 11th grade. I cannot link, but it’s on the TN.gov website. 

[ScoutTN]

My Ds15 is a freshman in a public charter, with a good math teacher for Alg 1. But, he learned nothing in his PreA class last year (different school) and essentially missed the last 2 years of arithmetic. Dh is having to teach the basics and walk Ds through the homework every.single.night. Ds would fail otherwise.  I have wondered how many other kids need the same sort of help, but do not have it. Very thankful for my Dh! I think Ds is slowly and painfully becoming a more capable math student. It’s gonna be a long four years though. 
 

His school does require the ACT and gives it on a school day for juniors. Lots of practice and test-prep too.

[teachermom2834]

My dd is in honors geometry. She has a 110. Every time she has class she gets a 100 for participation and a 100 quiz grade. She has had three tests and she always gets a 100. She does a poster for extra credit before every test and she asks really good questions in class and so she gets extra credit for that apparently so that is why she has a 110. 
 

She doesn’t get homework problems. She reads a chapter to prepare for class and then has a quiz when she gets there and works problems in class. I honestly have no idea if she is learning what she needs to. She has never been that great of a math student at home and always thought it was her worst subject. My husband used to teach math so we have said lots of times that she would have to remediate with dad if she didn’t learn what she needed to for the ACT. 
 

I am super skeptical. We have been way too busy to dig in and really investigate what is happening here. But I am not convinced. How many kids have a 100 in math (or say a 90 or 85 in this scenario?) and then get lost on the ACT? 

Edited October 27, 2022 by teachermom2834

[teachermom2834]

Regarding my post above about my dd- I’m not concerned about my dd. She is super sharp and a good student and if she is missing pieces in geometry her dad can fill her in and she’ll do fine. 
 

I am more wondering about the system and the kids making lower As and Bs in that system without skeptical math teacher parents to plug the gaps. 

[ScoutTN]

On 10/14/2022 at 11:32 AM, Dmmetler said:

I think it would be interesting to look at the other test. In TN, the ACT is a graduation requirement in many districts. That means that a lot of kids take it who have no goals beyond the local CC or tech college (TN has an automatic scholarship for 2 year schools for high school graduates), know they don’t need a test score, and have no reason to try. 
 

The SAT, or even the PSAT. on the other hand, is only taken by college bound kids who have a need for it-which usually means those who have a prayer of NMS or who are applying to schools out of state.

Yes, ACT required even for not college bound students skews the results. 
 

I am thankful that Dd’s tutorial has a test prep/college advisor guy who strongly recommended that students take both the ACT and the SAT, then continue with the one they liked best or did better on. Dd did much better on the SAT, though she is nowhere near competitive for NMS. Most, but but no means all of the tutorial students are headed to college, some only to community college.

[SKL]

3 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

My Ds15 is a freshman in a public charter, with a good math teacher for Alg 1. But, he learned nothing in his PreA class last year (different school) and essentially missed the last 2 years of arithmetic. Dh is having to teach the basics and walk Ds through the homework every.single.night. Ds would fail otherwise.  I have wondered how many other kids need the same sort of help, but do not have it. Very thankful for my Dh! I think Ds is slowly and painfully becoming a more capable math student. It’s gonna be a long four years though.

I have historically helped my eldest who struggles with math.  I understand the math well enough, but my kid pushes back with stuff about "that's not how the teacher wants it."  I can answer specific questions, but can no longer comprehensively teach this kid, or so it seems.  I've tried having her work out the problems and "teach" the method to me, with unsatisfying results.  Yesterday, the second-last day of the quarter, the teacher sent me an email offering after-school tutoring.  I'm less than impressed with the level of proactivity, but I'll be forcing my kid to attend school tutoring 3 days a week, weekend tutoring with a mathy relative, and daily math check-ins with me.  If that doesn't produce a passing grade, I don't know what will.  She's pretty burnt out though.  Wish there was a more gentle math path for kids like her (college bound but not mathy).

[Frances]

Does anyone know what the rationale is for not using math textbooks anymore? It just seems crazy to me. I remember my high school math textbooks, except for precalc which was from a different series, being excellent. In fact, the precalc one not being good really made a big difference, as I had the same math teacher for all four years. All of our HW was assigned from the textbooks and we just compared our answers to those in the back of the book, as we never handed in HW. All of our grade was based on exams.

[Lecka]

They spent the textbook money on computers.  

[vonfirmath]

53 minutes ago, Frances said:

Does anyone know what the rationale is for not using math textbooks anymore? It just seems crazy to me. I remember my high school math textbooks, except for precalc which was from a different series, being excellent. In fact, the precalc one not being good really made a big difference, as I had the same math teacher for all four years. All of our HW was assigned from the textbooks and we just compared our answers to those in the back of the book, as we never handed in HW. All of our grade was based on exams.

Our school has textbooks can sign out if they want and my son has every year. Math is one thing we need a textbook for.

[ScoutTN]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

Does anyone know what the rationale is for not using math textbooks anymore? It just seems crazy to me. I remember my high school math textbooks, except for precalc which was from a different series, being excellent. In fact, the precalc one not being good really made a big difference, as I had the same math teacher for all four years. All of our HW was assigned from the textbooks and we just compared our answers to those in the back of the book, as we never handed in HW. All of our grade was based on exams.

I hate math with no textbooks! I hate all the time my Ds has to spend on his Chromebook doing school stuff that could be done with books, paper, and pencil. 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Frances said:

Does anyone know what the rationale is for not using math textbooks anymore? It just seems crazy to me. I remember my high school math textbooks, except for precalc which was from a different series, being excellent. In fact, the precalc one not being good really made a big difference, as I had the same math teacher for all four years. All of our HW was assigned from the textbooks and we just compared our answers to those in the back of the book, as we never handed in HW. All of our grade was based on exams.

I'm assuming it is part of the plan to ruin the world. Like, Satan came up with this plan. Not even really kidding. 

DS23 spent one semester in public highschool and that was my biggest rant (and I had a LOT of them). No textbook. Nothing he could look at at home and see how an example problem was worked. No solution manual. Just a workbook (with no solutions provided). It was insanity. 

[Brittany1116]

On 10/26/2022 at 8:24 AM, shawthorne44 said:

I know from teachers that several school districts in my area put in this rule for the Spring 2021 final exams.   

Any kids that shows up, writes their name on the exam and turns it in, gets a 50 minimum.    

If it has one problem correct, then it is a 70 minimum.  

This was the rule from before the exams were given, so the schools knew that they'd failed miserably.  

A close friend of mine said no grades below a 60 are to be given. Show up, put your name on the paper, answer nothing and you are guaranteed a 60. 

[vonfirmath]

3 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:

A close friend of mine said no grades below a 60 are to be given. Show up, put your name on the paper, answer nothing and you are guaranteed a 60. 

That's not true at my son's school. You can make up grades under 70 by going back and taking another test (though the highest you can get is 70 even the second time). But you can definitely get lower grades

 

[hshibley]

Here there’s no room in the budget for textbooks. My kids have had classes where the teacher has created their own curriculum with all the resources from scratch. They’ve also had classes (mostly AP) where teachers have themselves bought a selection of used textbooks on line so the kids can have a textbook to use as reference at home. As a society we’ve decided not to fully fund the classroom. Yes you can argue that we spend $XX per student but when you look at what actually gets to your child’s classroom/teacher it’s just not enough and not a priority in our country. 
 

You can fail test in my kids public school. 

[Ausmumof3]

There’s been discussion in the news here this week about the lack of curriculum resources available to teachers. There’s a curriculum outline but it’s quite vague and teachers often have to pay out of their wages if they want resources for each objective versus making everything from scratch. I do think a really well written curriculum could be really helpful for many kids and teachers. Although a lot of teachers push back against that too, because they want flexibility. I would love to see the kids I’m working with have access to Singapore style math from the start and some good quality grammar and writing instruction. It could make a huge difference and instead of everyone having to do the work multiple times it could be more crowd sourced. Get a bunch of experienced teachers to create something, get everyone to provide feedback each semester, find and fix the most commonly flagged issues. Budget for a certain amount of rewriting updating each year.  I believe some of the unis are having similar issues where they’re only paying people qualified to deliver the course but not paying the right people to have the curriculum updated and maintained all the time. 

[Terabith]

Yeah, we don’t have any textbooks for any classes except a few AP classes and an elementary reading program that teaches zero phonics.  Elementary teachers have to invent a curriculum all on their own for each subject based on the standards. Or buy stuff off of TPT. There’s no example problems or practice problems because there’s no textbook.  Homework is all a random mishmash of worksheets the teacher has found but it’s not systematic.  Kids are required by the district to use various online resources for x amount of time a week. Really, that’s where the vast amount of instruction is supposed to come from, and if you’re not able to learn long division from ST Math, you’re out of luck because the elementary teachers have no idea how to do it themselves.  We are at least two generations in of wanting to use conceptual based math programs, but taught by people who do not themselves understand math concepts.  

[hshibley]

Our worst experience with this was elementary school. My youngest dd went to ps K-1 it was all disjointed worksheets and independent learning using online programs. She’s not a natural at math and really struggled. She’s been homeschooled since covid and we’ve been plugging along with Rod and Staff just fine. I think for a nonmathy kid using just one resource-an incremental textbook is just easier than a mishmash of resources. 

[shawthorne44]

8 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

A close friend of mine said no grades below a 60 are to be given. Show up, put your name on the paper, answer nothing and you are guaranteed a 60. 

Why was this not news?