How would you interpret this comment?

[Drama Llama]

DS14 likes to spend time with his 7 year old girl cousin.  He likes all his cousins, but he particularly likes teaching her to do things like hit a ball or a ride a bike or do a flip turn, and they spend a lot of time together when the families are together.

We invited their family over tomorrow but her parents and 11 year old sister might not make it due to a sports commitment for the 11 year old.  Their grandfather offered to pick up the 7 and 9 year old and bring them over, making a comment about how he knows DS14 and DN7 would probably love that.  My SIL then asked “Does anyone think the DS14 DN7 thing is a little weird?”

How would you read that comment?  

[Rosie_0801]

As not worth listening to.

[Slache]

Either way. It's kinda rude and could have been malicious, or just foot in mouth disease, which I also suffer from.

[kristin0713]

I would take it as, your SIL thinks it’s weird. 
 

FTR, my almost 14yo DS loves and plays very well with his 8yo girl cousin and 6yo boy cousin. 

[Xahm]

I would take it as intended as a dig, but probably respond "eh, it's unusual for cousins to get to spend enough time together to be close, but I'm so glad they are!"

[lauraw4321]

I know there is a lot of back story here. And SIL’s comment is not the way to handle this AT ALL. BUT, as a mom of 3 girls, if a 14 y/o male cousin showed a lot of interest in my just turned 8 year old, it would raise alarm bells in my mind. One of my daughters has been touched inappropriately twice in her life. The first happened when she was 4 at church.  The second when she was 7 on a school bus. In both cases, it was slightly older boys. A childhood friend of mine was abused by her older brother and her family swept it under the rug. So, maybe I’m hyper vigilant, but I would be thinking about abuse in that situation. 
 

Now I wouldn’t say anything like your SIL did. But I would also not allow my 7 yo daughter to play with a 14 year old male, unless I was going to be there. 

[plaidpants]

As if she's trying to stir the pot.

If they were siblings would it be a problem? What if they were both girls or boys? Older or younger or less of an age gap?

I know terrible things happen-- from experience-- but I think it's a sin that we start by thinking poorly of children like that, it's reflective of a larger evil in the culture.

 

[Selkie]

Thinking back to when my dd was 7, that would have raised a question in my mind and I would supervise.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Selkie

[klmama]

I always kept a very close eye on my elementary- and middle-school dc when with cousins, regardless of gender, so this wouldn't phase me much.  My 18's favorite cousin is 15 years older and the opposite gender, and I am thrilled they are such good friends.  However, since your SIL is concerned, I suggest you monitor carefully, even as the mom of the older cousin. Better to keep a visible presence to prevent even imagined issues.

[Drama Llama]

So you wouldn't allow your 7 year old to go to her grandparents' house if cousins were there and you weren't?

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Baseballandhockey

[DreamerGirl]

I am the mother of a 14 year old son and I would go on super mama bear protect mode. Even if it is a benign comment it insinuates something about my kid that could harm him and his reputation as creepy. Screw that. My loyalty is to my kid and  would immediately put an end to the cousin interaction one on one interaction. Especially since the source of this comment is a toxic person. 

I also have a 5 year old girl and I would NOT let play with an older male cousin or friend one on one.

Edited January 22, 2022 by DreamerGirl
Clarity

[catz]

This particular aunt has not shown really clear thinking lately and obviously likes to jab at you so I would try not to think about it..  That didn't keep her from having your kids basically at your house daily for months so I think she is blowing smoke.  In our family there was a nephew that had a closer relationship with a niece probably about 10 years younger than him.  She used to follow him around but he has always just been a super sweet guy.  He's like 30 now and she's like 20ish.  He babysat for that family now and again.  I never thought anything weird about it.  (neither kid was in our family)

I was always diligent with my own kids, but I also had families and older kids we were very comfortable with.  My kids have always been kind of outspoken and confident and weren't very compliant lol.   I think people's thoughts on this are often colored by their own background and history.  

Edited January 23, 2022 by catz

[Katy]

Given the history I’d be going hyper-vigilant too. And have a frank conversation with DS that while you know he meant nothing bad, the insinuation is there, hanging like a threat. 

[happi duck]

I would take it as a yes or no question.  Sounds like she thinks it's weird and is checking to see if anyone else does.

I know two families where abuse started at those ages and the boy was thought to be so sweet with the younger kids.  I'm not accusing your ds but can understand asking that question when it was just stated that those two kids would like a get together.

 

[Moonhawk]

I'd be instantly alarmed that she's willing to insinuate such a thing. Because if she's willing to insinuate anything of the sort like this from normal kid/cousin behavior, I do not see her as a trustworthy person that necessarily has my son's interests/reputation in mind.

If she's actually worried she should be supervising them closely, but if she's supervising closely then she knows there's nothing to worry about. So, this comment is showing she's probably not really concerned but is just being catty about something she may see as a flaw (ie a boy who is willing to play with girls, or a kid who isn't maturing "right" since they can play with little kids, both of which are silly implications). 

I understand it's probably just meant as a slight jab, but also let it be a reminder she is not an adult I would allow to supervise my kids (or, I wouldn't let her supervisor just DS14 w/o his brother). 

[lauraw4321]

24 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So you wouldn't allow your 7 year old to go to her grandparents' house if cousins were there and you weren't?

 

This is entirely hypothetical as my kids have no cousins and never will. But no. Grandparents aren’t sufficiently diligent for this kind of scenario. Once my kids are ~12 or otherwise show that they can speak up for themselves, the rules change. But my 8 y/o with a 14 y/o cousin?  No. Not unless I was there. I wouldn’t say anything. But it wouldn’t happen without my presence. 

[footballmom]

She could have meant it as a jab and she could have been verbalizing something she is struggling with finding her feelings on this. I would try to not take it as directed questioning your son’s character, but more being a vigilant mom and not wanting to ever regret being less vigilant / blind trust.  

[itsheresomewhere]

I have no idea what channel this was on but there was a show recently talking about being vigilant about family and abuse.  The woman on it was talking about the abuse she suffered from a cousin? I think and how no one question the older teen wanting to be around the young kid.  Maybe your SIL saw it and triggered something as it has sounded like she is suffering from some PPD in past posts. 

[HomeAgain]

I would like to think it doesn't matter, but it does.  If my 14yo sought out a relationship with a much younger cousin, I would be concerned.  However, if my 14yo simply included a much younger cousin when they were around, I'd be fine with it.  It all has to do with how it's playing out.

Youngest ds has great relationships with his cousin 8 years older and his cousin 6 years younger.  The older one mentored him under full view and earshot of adults, and the same sort of relationship continues now with his younger cousin - always in earshot and under the supervision of adults.  We've always stressed two-deep leadership with the vulnerable, and how not to put yourself in a vulnerable situation (keeping doors open, requiring a second person present, etc.) that are just smart behavior practices.  It doesn't mean we don't trust close family.  It means, we're there to support and encourage good relationships and healthy behavior with all people.  And, it means that we can nip inappropriate conversations in the bud when a teen shares something that a kid watching G-rated only movies shouldn't hear. 😄 Like, how not to cuss and teach a 6yo those words.

[saraha]

We had an issue that resulted in my dh having a private conversation with his brother. Lots of communication and feel like the situation was handled well considering the circumstances. The difference here is that we started the conversation privately.  Your situation just sounds like pot stirring. If she was really concerned a private conversation would ensue, you would see a quiet pulling back or you would get a real allegation of a specific event.

Im sorry you now have to worry about this too. I’m sure your son is a great kid

Edited January 23, 2022 by saraha

[Shoeless]

Is this the SIL that is jealous of you and has made a big, stinky point of saying your kids are favored over hers?

If so, she'd basically be dead to me at this point because she's implying something very, very ugly about the 14 year old.  I would consider this an escalation of hostilities from her. 

[lauraw4321]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by lauraw4321
Thank you.

[Spryte]

3 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Is this the SIL that is jealous of you and has made a big, stinky point of saying your kids are favored over hers?

If so, she'd basically be dead to me at this point because she's implying something very, very ugly about the 14 year old.  I would consider this an escalation of hostilities from her. 

This.

[lauraw4321]

57 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by lauraw4321
Privacy

[lauraw4321]

Deleted. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by lauraw4321

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I think that particular SIL in that particular situation is stirring the pot.

I also would think a 14 year old and 7 year old cousins, especially being opposite gender, being that close is unusual and, yes, a little weird. It wouldn’t matter if the 7 year old was a boy and the 14 year old was a girl.  I don’t think your son is inappropriate at all, but I can see where it might make someone uncomfortable and that it’s weird.   My DD9 is spending the night at my parents house with my nephew who is 11.  That’s a close enough age bracket and they play Minecraft together. If it was dear niece 13 wanting to always hang out with my 6 year old son, I’d think it was a little weird and be around to supervise.

So I guess I kind of see where everyone is coming from in this situation. 

[plaidpants]

Also, 14 is more than old enough to babysit, especially a 7 year old. Is that an issue? 

This is why men don't go into teaching younger grades and dads alone at the park with their kids get stinky eyed.

Apparently I have thoughts about this.

[Garga]

Yes, I do think it’s weird. If I was the mom of a little girl and a male cousin was that interested in her, I’d be watching like a hawk.

No, I don’t think it’s weird. I think it’s sweet that the older cousin is taking the younger cousin under his wing. He’ll make a great dad someday.

 

I would be feeling both of the above at the same time.

[1234]

I would be very upset with the comment. I don’t know what I would actually do though.

We all bring our own issues into these situations. For me, I never worried about cousins because it was a grandparent that sexually abused me. So, my kids were never alone with any grandparents/great grandparents when they were young. I didn’t actually think any of our parents were abusers but neither did my parents. 

[catz]

I will say having followed the history of the last stretch with these families, it seems to me like this group of kids have been together so much it's more like a sibling relationship than cousins.  I mean these kids were together daily for a very long stretch if I am remembering correctly.  

All that said, I wouldn't want to host her kids without her there after a remark like that.  

[Lecka]

I’m starting to wonder what this woman is capable of, because that is nasty.  
 

I would not respond, but I think I would react in some way along the lines of just increasing supervision or cutting contact that is not able to be supervised.

 

Someone who would talk that way around my son instead of, I don’t know, choosing to increase supervision of her child or limit contact to times there is greater supervision — I find bizarre.

 

I would take this hint now.  It it being given so clearly.  
 

I hope she never takes another step against your son but this is unequivocally a step.  And if not against your son than against you (or your family) and it’s against your son by proxy.  Either way, it doesn’t matter.  

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lecka

[Lecka]

Let’s say she came here for advice.

Who would say “change nothing but make a super passive aggressive comment.”  
 

I am guessing nobody.  

[lauraw4321]

I agree with previous posters that this is too serious to just ignore. 

[Lecka]

Maybe if she said in her comment how she didn’t want to change anything because she wants the free babysitting, she just wants to say nasty things too, or she has a concern but is going to drop her daughter off for babysitting anyways?

It is bizarre.

It is not normal. 

It is not a joke.

It is not funny.

Either she really has a concern and is handling it in this bizarre way, or she is going to go after kids now.

Seriously if she is testing the waters to see what she can get away with — I think it needs to be met with a consequence like — limits on visits.  Maybe to include only when she is present.  Maybe to include other close supervision.  
 

I would not let them be in a room alone or outside alone.  
 

And neither should this woman if she is going to make comments like this.

[Lecka]

I totally think it SHOULD be okay.  The reason I don’t think it’s okay is this nasty, bizarre comment.

There is nothing that should be suspicious in of itself.  

But that goes out the window when the parent of the younger child has made a comment like this.

 

 

[Lecka]

I have told this story before and won’t go into it in detail.

But here is the thing.

You have heard what was said to your face.  This is likely the tip of the iceberg for what is being said not to your face.  I hope not, but it’s likely to me.  Yes it’s possible it’s a one-off, but it’s more likely it is the thing said to your face, while other things have been said to other people (which could just be complaining to her husband, but who knows).  Who know what her kids have or will overhear or be directly told.

Sometimes in life you do not get a lot of clues that something is very wrong, and I think this is one of those times.

There was sexual abuse of two pre-school classmates of my older son, by a teenage step-brother of one of the boys.  This is a real thing that happens and a parent should provide supervision if their is any hint of an issue.

But that is not my main point.

My main point is that there were some “off” things and I stepped back a little from a friendship with the two moms, and they ended up getting really close and I felt left out then and like my son was left out of their group, for a while (for months).  But there were some “off” things and I felt like I had a responsibility to my husband to try to make good decisions about how I spent my time during the day while he worked.  
 

NEVER did I dream that the “off” things would ever become associated with something like this.  Never, never, never.  Never.  The “off” things were in no way related to anything I thought would ever end up this way.

 

Anyway — I can’t imagine what would have happened if I had stayed more deeply in that circle.  
 

This was a nice group of pre-school kids and parents, with many who socialized together, and these other two boys were the boys my son liked to play with.

 
Anyway though when people have weird attitudes where they would say something like this — it is weird.  It is a sign something is not okay.  What is not okay?  Who knows?  It could be anything, it could be something totally unrelated.  But something is wrong in some way

.

Bc I agree with pp that says this should be perceived as innocent!  
 

And if it’s not, the normal response would be to just up the supervision!  
 

Not to say this and then proceed to leave your child!  
 

It is bizarre.  
 

If this is just a nasty comment for the sake of being nasty, this is far enough!  But it’s not likely to just be the end of it, it is likely to escalate (whether it is behind your back or to your face).  Because that is what happens with people who say nasty and bizarre things and do not apologize and express remorse afterward.  
 

And she may be nice to your face or just nice to everyone around you so they don’t think she could mean to do something like this.

But she has done it!

[marbel]

I grew up with a lot of cousins, but there were different groups that were closest, based on age. My cousins that were 7+ older than me didn't pay much attention to me in general, nor I to them. I wasn't very close to my own brother who is 10 yeas older than me. So, given my background, I would find that super close relationship a little unusual. 

Well into adulthood, my sister told me that one of our older cousins was creepy as a teen. I had never noticed it but then he was probably 12 years older than me. (She is 5 years older, so closer to his age.) 

So, taken on it's own, I don't find the comment/question strange or upsetting.  People will respond differently based on their own experiences. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by marbel

[Dianthus]

26 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Let’s say she came here for advice.

Who would say “change nothing but make a super passive aggressive comment.”  
 

I am guessing nobody.  

On another thread earlier today of someone with a difficult mother, a poster said something to the effect of "you need to come up with a good passive aggressive response"...

[JustEm]

Pot stirring. Because if sil actually felt like it was an issue why would she allow the hang out happen. 

But I do wonder if the grandparent thinks it is odd too since he invited 2 other kids. Or maybe sil asked him to because she actually is concerned.

 

[Lecka]

I can see the point of someone who thinks this comment is not too bad.

I can totally see that.

But I would still want to make changes in response.  
 

Like — if someone thinks something seems a little creepy, that is fair enough.

 

And if it was another observer I would lean more that way.

 

But the mother?  I find it bizarre.  SHE is the one who is making the comment, not another person who doesn’t understand that they have a close relationship for various reasons.  

[Lecka]

I wish I could say potstirring, but there is some bizarre stuff in this world, bizarre enough I don’t think it’s possible to count on it being potstirring.

And if it is that is still rising to a pretty high level of potstirring, what, because of a lack of response to previous efforts?  Also not okay.  
 

If she is making sure she and her kids won’t be excluded, maybe she is working on you and your kids being excluded.  Maybe someone won’t be “comfortable.”  
 

Or do very many people do stuff like this and it’s just a one-time thing that passes by and doesn’t escalate or become even more weird?  Maybe that happens more than I give it credit for.  

[Drama Llama]

5 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Pot stirring. Because if sil actually felt like it was an issue why would she allow the hang out happen. 

But I do wonder if the grandparent thinks it is odd too since he invited 2 other kids. Or maybe sil asked him to because she actually is concerned.

 

What do you mean by invited two other kids?

[kristin0713]

I totally understand concerns about a 14yo boy and 7yo girl playing together *unsupervised* and/or for extended amounts of time or alone in a room. If my brother and/or SIL wanted to be proactive about preventing any possible inappropriate situation, I would respect that.  But — the fact that they get along and enjoy playing together? That’s not weird. My kids are so great with their little cousins. The littles look up to them. They play legos, make silly movies, run around and play hide and seek, put on magic shows, play with the dog, do art projects. I’m thankful that they get along so well. 

[HS Mom in NC]

Of the half dozen sexual abuse situations I know the details about because the victims told me, 4 of them are in those age ranges with siblings, step-siblings, and cousins who are males abusing females. The others involved teen females and adult males. So yeah, I'm betting a significant percentage of people would see reg flags in that scenario. I would. That doesn't mean I would assume the teen had done or will do something wrong, I'm saying I wouldn't be so naive as to assume no sexual contact could happen just because the teen is a nice kid from a nice family. It's a real possibility, not a certainty, that something sexually inappropriate could happen. So I'd only allow my daughters around teen boys, including older cousins,  if there was real supervision going on-for everyone's sake and it was an activity around everyone else-no going off alone together.

Add in nutty SIL, and I wouldn't let any child alone with her or be alone her child in general, regardless of age difference.  I would want a responsible, alert  adult present and aware that she's unstable and prone to causing conflict. (BTDT with a now former SIL.) My experience is, yes, if other family members aren't rallying to her side over her nonsense about another family member being favored over her, she will decide that  family member's kids are a threat to her kids and will invent things to get the rest of the extended family to rally to her kid's side.

[JustEm]

16 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

What do you mean by invited two other kids?

I must have misinterpreted the grandfather offering to pick up 7 and 9 year old and that 14 year old and 7 year old would enjoy that. I thought you meant a 7 and 9 year old in addition to you 14 year old and the 7 year old he get along with. I see now that the 7 year old in that pair is the female 7 year old.

I apologize for the confusion. Clearing that up makes it seem even more obvious that it is pot stirring. If your sil thought it was a real issue she wouldn't allow the visit I'd assume

[Farrar]

There is nothing wrong with a 14 yo boy enjoying spending time with younger kids in a mentorship sort of way. One my boys was into that around that age. I think it was age 13 when he told me he wanted to be a kindergarten teacher. He used to organize games for the little kids at the park. The schools here use the public parks and once a teacher told me thank you when we were leaving because he had kept half her class running around and happy and taking turns for most of her recess. Now, at 17, he supposedly disdains little kids, but honestly, you should see him with his best friend's 7 yo sister. He's absolutely the sweetest and always thinks of her needs if she's hanging out around the gaggle of teen boys. I hate the way people find anything about this suspicious. It's just not. Not without any other evidence or issues going on. Any time an older kid actually monopolizes a younger one, there's a potential for manipulation regardless of the gender dynamics - but no one mentioned anyone monopolizing anyone's time or any other red flags.

That said, if sil is toxic as some people are saying, then this is the sort of thing that some people find suspicious (ugh... we train boys to think they should inherently be bad at caregiving then get angry that they are as men). And I would be on the lookout for the sil's bad behavior. I wouldn't worry about my kid, I'd worry about a toxic sil and how my kid might get victimized. Because there's your age related power imbalance.

[Lecka]

In response to what would “I” do about leaving my daughter with grandparents and cousins I felt unsure about?

I would not leave her.  
 

Now I say that and I am privileged, because I have never had to or needed to, for any reason.  (Edit:  in the sense of it being an ongoing thing where there was something I didn’t like but I felt like I didn’t have a choice because I needed the childcare.)

 

Whether the reason is peer pressure, or just needing babysitting, there are reasons people live their kids in a situation they don’t really like.

 

I have had a handful of times when I let my kids stay somewhere or be unsupervised in a way where I was not comfortable.  
 

One time my husband and I had planned a day trip with my MIL babysitting and she changed the plans in a way I didn’t like, but I didn’t want to cancel the trip and make a scene.  
 

One time we went to a work party where all the kids were expected to go in an attic with no parents.  This turned out fine (my husband checked on them, my older son was there and said everything was fine), but I wasn’t comfortable at first.  And wouldn’t have been without my older son being 8 or 9 at the time!  
 

But more often I have just provided supervision and had the ability to live my life that way due to not needing someone to babysit for me.  
 

But also I had this horrible sexual abuse happen in my circle of friends when my oldest was an older 3 and younger 4.  It happened in a group that was made up of pre-school parents who went to the same Womens Bible Study etc. 

That happened when my daughter was a baby, so honestly, no, I would not leave her, in that situation, because I would have already had the other situation happen.

Which is pretty specific, but it’s my experience.  

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lecka

[kbutton]

You can be vigilant and take steps without being creepy and rude and without implying that boys who are nurturing or inclusive of various ages are creeps by age default (especially when they've spent time together like they're siblings). I have a lot of nurturing males in my family who are great with kids. We were also taught that we could tell our parents anything, and they'd believe us even if we had abuse happen with a relative. 

SIL has shown herself to be threatening. 

[JennyD]

5 minutes ago, kbutton said:

You can be vigilant and take steps without being creepy and rude and without implying that boys who are nurturing or inclusive of various ages are creeps by age default (especially when they've spent time together like they're siblings).

Exactly.

[mathnerd]

My DS likes to spend time with younger kids, both boys and girls. He used to say that he would grow up and become a preschool teacher! There are a lot of boys who genuinely love to spend time with much younger kids and mentor them, teach them games etc etc. @OP, your families have spent so much time together in the last few years that perhaps the bond is more like siblings than cousins. It sounds like the SIL is being mean and attacking you and your kid. If I had such concerns, I would personally supervise rather than fling words like "weird" at someone else's child. In a close-knit family, such statements without backing evidence is meant to stir the pot and discredit someone. 

Tell her that if she has concerns, she should address them directly with you and that you would gladly look into them as you don't want anything weird to happen as well. Finally, do not leave your sons alone and unsupervised with her kids, ever again, because this SIL seems to have an agenda and I am not sure how far she will push her agenda and you have to protect your kids.