My house, but not my clutter-control?

[sbgrace]

When the pandemic started and my husband's work shifted to home, he set up a workstation in what was the family room. It's the best place for him--lots of natural light, his own entrance, a half bathroom.

My husband has lots of good traits, but he is also messy. He has piles of stuff--work materials and papers, snacks, cords everywhere, electronics, random stuff. It's way past my happiness point for chaos. He has always been this way, but his mess was in his office (and his car), and not in our house. It seems to be hard for him to get rid of things. At times I've been frustrated because we were to have visitors staying over and he has "cleaned" by shoving things in boxes--which he then later pulls out to the space. So now he has multiple boxes of junk plus the same new mess everywhere. Obviously it has gotten worse as time has gone on. Every time I am in there I feel some level of stressed and irritated.

His employer has now said that he will be permenantly working from home 3 days a week. His in office time is now not in a dedicated space. So his home set up is not going away (I kept telling myself this was temporary).

He is incapable of clutter control. I don't want to battle over it. I also don't want my blood pressure to spike looking at what had been a nice space. Does anyone have ideas or systems to organize his junk enough for me to be ok? I'm wondering if I could get some pretty (and large and opaque) containers and label them--papers, snacks, etc...I don't know. I good at organizing my own stuff, but not his. 

[fraidycat]

Check out Clutterbug on youtube and see what kind of "bug" your husband is for organizing. She has 4 different organizing styles that range between visual/hidden storage and macro/micro sorting.

Once you know his style, then you can try to find storage systems that will work for him.

 

 

[bolt.]

I'm going to suggest the opposite -- which I hope is okay, since this is not a JAWM thread.

I think you should just accept your loss. There was a global pandemic: a full-fledged natural disaster. It changed your life, and you lost a room of your home to it. Just consider that room "gone". It's been sacrificed to your husband's need to earn a living in the best way he can under the new conditions.

Try this: Stop calling it the living room. It's your husband's work-room now. It's chaotic because it's a work-room, but it has nothing to do with you because it's not a part of the home that you are responsible for. Think of it like a garage or a shed, but, unfortunately attached to your living space and highly visible. You can learn to ignore it if you train yourself firmly. (And don't go in there.)

Getting into organizing someone else's stuff is a recipe for disaster. Nagging him is similarly perilous. It's not worth it! Just enjoy the rest of your house and release your sense of ownership over the room that you lost to the pandemic.

[Beth S]

Agreeing with PP, but wow it's hard. 

Jump to 20:30 of this group Q&A including Cass.  Apparently this is one of their most common questions.
Each of these gals has seen improvement in their husbands, ONLY after they got their part of the house in shape . . . and didn't say anything to nag.
One of them calls it "staying in your own lane". 
It's very hard for me to not tidy up his stuff, but I think limiting it all to the one room is a legit boundary.

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Beth S

[barnwife]

I feel your post deep in my soul. I clearly think DH has a lot of good qualities. However, he is also messy. If there is a flat space available, he will put something there. His organizational skills are...different than mine. He also grew up in a house that was way worse than he is (probably hoarder lever, although I am not qualified to actually diagnose that). So, imo, his gauge for acceptable mess is just way off. To him, it's nowhere near his childhood, so it's fine.

I grew up with the opposite, essentially. Everything is organized, has a place, etc...I am a relaxed version of that. However, I admit that I like my tables and counters clear of stuff that isn't currently being used.

So, I understand, OP. Boy, do I understand. So what I try to do when mess/stuff is driving me insane, is put away/organize what I can. While I do so, I say a prayer of thanks for all his good qualities. If absolutely necessary, I tell him (calmly!), "this is pushing me over the edge. Can we spend some time decluttering?" 

Thankfully, our differences in this are well-known by both of us, and that usually helps. There have been times I put everything bothering me into boxes and those in his car, if he can' respond nicely to that. I...don't necessarily recommend that though. I'm just making it known I am not perfect. I especially wouldn't do it with work stuff.

Also, I repeat "not my monkeys (stuff), not my circus (stuff to deal with)" frequently.

[Amethyst]

Out house (built in the 90’s) came with bifold doors in both entrances to the family room. Not my favorite feature, but if your doorways could handle that, you might just be able to keep the doors closed and not have to see the mess. 
 

PS. This would drive me nuts also! 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Amethyst

[fraidycat]

26 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm going to suggest the opposite -- which I hope is okay, since this is not a JAWM thread.

I think you should just accept your loss. There was a global pandemic: a full-fledged natural disaster. It changed your life, and you lost a room of your home to it. Just consider that room "gone". It's been sacrificed to your husband's need to earn a living in the best way he can under the new conditions.

Try this: Stop calling it the living room. It's your husband's work-room now. It's chaotic because it's a work-room, but it has nothing to do with you because it's not a part of the home that you are responsible for. Think of it like a garage or a shed, but, unfortunately attached to your living space and highly visible. You can learn to ignore it if you train yourself firmly. (And don't go in there.)

Getting into organizing someone else's stuff is a recipe for disaster. Nagging him is similarly perilous. It's not worth it! Just enjoy the rest of your house and release your sense of ownership over the room that you lost to the pandemic.

If the family room was a temporary office space, that is now becoming permanent, then he probably needs proper office storage and furniture that does not currently exist in the room.

She put up with the "temporary" situation, but now needs to make a long term plan for turning the room into an actual office.

I see nothing wrong with her saying "let's make this space work better for you as an office since it's no longer temporary. We need some office storage furniture for you, what do you need to contain this stuff better?"

Edited January 18, 2022 by fraidycat

[aggie96]

Depending on layout, aesthetically pleasing free-standing folding screens could work as a "wall" to screen this room from the other common areas. Or something along that line. Not permanent but separate. Then that becomes a "home office" apart from the common space of the house. The cheap book cases or whatever other organization equipment that DH prefers can be added. You won't need to see it or manage it, and DH has some personal space to do his thing how he needs to.

--from someone who has homeschooled and run a DH-co-owned business from home for 16 years in multiple homes with multiple layouts who is currently sitting in her master bedroom at her own desk/office setup that must be carefully curated since she hates clutter but must work and have work-clutter

 

[Grace Hopper]

Can you get a folding type screen to create “walls” for his work area?

Maybe it’s there and I haven’t found it yet, but I would have thought by now that backyard offices (like the next progression of the she-shed) would have been as prevalent in social media as #vanlife content. 

[Grace Hopper]

10 minutes ago, aggie96 said:

Depending on layout, aesthetically pleasing free-standing folding screens could work as a "wall" to screen this room from the other common areas. Or something along that line. Not permanent but separate. Then that becomes a "home office" apart from the common space of the house. The cheap book cases or whatever other organization equipment that DH prefers can be added. You won't need to see it or manage it, and DH has some personal space to do his thing how he needs to.

--from someone who has homeschooled and run a DH-co-owned business from home for 16 years in multiple homes with multiple layouts who is currently sitting in her master bedroom at her own desk/office setup that must be carefully curated since she hates clutter but must work and have work-clutter

 

I was typing as you posted this! The screens also have a nice benefit of providing a more professional background for online meetings. An acquaintance uses one because her desk is (by necessity) in her bedroom and she feels her bed is too personal to be included on zoom meetings (even if nicely made up). 

Some friends once used an open back bookshelf with bins to create a wall. 
 

Is there any other space in the house to relocate his work space? In a previous home we had a large walk in closet that would have been perfect if the pandemic occurred ten years ago. 

[Arcadia]

My husband’s temp office is our bed.  His clutter area/dumping ground is our dining room way before the pandemic. With a designated messy area, it means that our teens and I can dump his things into the dining room if the items end up on our desks.

My husband is working from home indefinitely because his employer gave up suggesting a return date. His actual work stuff is his laptop and headphones so he just put them by the side of the bed. 
Since your husband has lots more office stuff, it may be time for a minor renovation of your family room. My kids has found the Ikea expedit/kallax cubes useful for organized mess.

[Grace Hopper]

43 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm going to suggest the opposite -- which I hope is okay, since this is not a JAWM thread.

I think you should just accept your loss. There was a global pandemic: a full-fledged natural disaster. It changed your life, and you lost a room of your home to it. Just consider that room "gone". It's been sacrificed to your husband's need to earn a living in the best way he can under the new conditions.

Try this: Stop calling it the living room. It's your husband's work-room now. It's chaotic because it's a work-room, but it has nothing to do with you because it's not a part of the home that you are responsible for. Think of it like a garage or a shed, but, unfortunately attached to your living space and highly visible. You can learn to ignore it if you train yourself firmly. (And don't go in there.)

Getting into organizing someone else's stuff is a recipe for disaster. Nagging him is similarly perilous. It's not worth it! Just enjoy the rest of your house and release your sense of ownership over the room that you lost to the pandemic.

This might be a liberating mindset except that it sounds like his clutter is as  widely spreading as the omicron variant.   If this is an extra living room, yeah, let him have it. If it’s the only family common space, that’s problematic as it further confines the other family members to their private spaces.
 

The pandemic has created a need for each of us to be sensitive to one another in limited spaces. Not to just let one person make all the rest uncomfortable. 
 

OP, any chance his company is offering to cover costs of home office organization? One of my family member’s company had a work station (desk and additional desktop computer) delivered to his home. All he had to do was assemble it. You might be pleasantly surprised!

[kristin0713]

Is there any other space in your house that could serve as his office?  You said it is the best place for him, but obviously not for the rest of the family if he is messy and unorganized. I agree with PP's that you won't be able to control his clutter.  And even for him, he needs to have his own space that he doesn't have to clean up all the time or feel like he is always irritating you with his mess. So my vote is to make another space for him, or another space for a family room and give him this room. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Is organization something he wants help with? Dh wanted to be organized, but didn’t know how to get from point A to point B. For him, organization was low on his priority list for his time. 
 

Questions that were helpful for me to ask him:

1. Is this something you need immediate access to, something you need to be able to access, or is this an archive thing? Archive things got boxed, labeled and put away. Able to access got put into labeled trofast bins (things like cords, office supplies, etc.) The immediate access things all got designated places. Like, we bought a pen jar for all of the pens. We bought him a wide enough standing desk that he can have three screens going plus a place for his papers not in his immediate work space. 
 

2. How many of these things do you need? We discovered he was rebuying things when he couldn’t find them. Labeling the bins cut back on the duplication.

3. What would be helpful that you don’t have now? The surprising answer here for us was a wall mount for his guitar. He plays in 5 minute intervals between meetings as a stress relief/brain break. His guitar is literally mounted in his workspace. I never could have guessed that. 

4. How are you going to build time into your schedule to maintain this? This isn’t a shaming thing—it’s a project management thing. Creating an end to work time and regrouping for the next day had never occurred to him for the home environment.

——-

He may think things are fine, and for that I would suggest a screen and pest control. His work habits don’t reflect on you personally.

[Grace Hopper]

@sbgrace is this your only family room? Or does your house have enough other common rooms that you can close the door on this room and call it his?

How involved Id get with his clutter would depend on which situation you are actually in with regard to home space. 

[thewellerman]

Can you periodically go in and toss things in bins by category? I think the key is to make the bins large enough and accessible enough that when he rifles through to get something, he doesn't need to take items out to find what he needs, and he doesn't have to move anything to get into the bin.  Then, only one or two items wind up on the desk, and you can easily toss them back in when you walk by.  

Also, is there anything in his office that could permanently come out?  If you could store low use items somewhere else, then you could organize them and they won't get jumbled with the other office stuff.  When you see things in there that can go either places, and it won't interrupt his workflow, I would just move them. 

[HomeAgain]

I'd get bins, label them, and them start including 10-second tidies in family time.  After dinner, everyone picks a room to tidy for a minute or so.  Sometimes, it's just getting started in the routine that helps tame the clutter.

[BusyMom5]

We've always both worked from home and both needed dedicated office space.  Neither of us is as messy as your DH, but we have different ideas of what the desk and room should look like.  I'm a notebook and specific piles- which then get put into hanging folders once I'm done.  DH prefers random small scraps of paper and stuff in drawers. 

Since the work at home thing is permanent,  I think you should stop and reevaluate your home and the best use of the space.  If that is really the best place for his office, then set it up like an office.  Maybe a smaller room would work better.  Once you decide which space is his, invest in some good office furniture that will help him keep everything organized.  I like hanging files, but shelves with bins, labeled drawers, whatever works best for him.  You might even do a long table along the wall with specific piles (or open bins).  If the door can be shut, I think that's a plus!

Don't get mad, get practical.   This is your new life and adjustments need to be made.  Figure out the best solution for your family.  

[regentrude]

Quote

He has always been this way, but his mess was in his office (and his car), and not in our house.

Reframe how you view the room. It is now no longer communal living space. It now is DH's office. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by regentrude

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, fraidycat said:

If the family room was a temporary office space, that is now becoming permanent, then he probably needs proper office storage and furniture that does not currently exist in the room.

She put up with the "temporary" situation, but now needs to make a long term plan for turning the room into an actual office.

I see nothing wrong with her saying "let's make this space work better for you as an office since it's no longer temporary. We need some office storage furniture for you, what do you need to contain this stuff better?"

Yes, this! And approach it as helping him not shaming him. Saying I can see that you need some stuff to help turn this into a more permanent office space, can I help you figure out what we should buy? I am naturally messy and I would not be offended by that. Maybe start with cord management, that won't offend him and will make it look less chaotic right away. Then coming up with some sort of system that works for how he thinks and works. My guess is he needs open bins because if he has to put a lid on it he will either not put it in there or once the lid is almost forget it is there. And labels. Lots and lots of labels. Could you get cube shelving to put in there and bins, with labels, for his stuff? You can call them project boxes. Clutterbuck has some stuff about project boxes. Once everything has a home and the courts are better managed then see where you are at.

[DreamerGirl]

Long before WFH became the norm, if you had the option of working from home companies necessitated a room with a door closed. You had to have zero interruptions and family could not saunter in. 

So we did a remodel of our formal dining to become DH's office. We did not want to sacrifice bedrooms, the room was not used frequently and we just enclosed it and added a door with a little strip of glass on top.

If WFH is the norm, you need to find a dedicated space. Not everyone can renovate and space is not always there. But you must find the space. That takes priority since it is a job and the pandemic rules will not always apply.

So you need to first of think of it as his office. Also, depends on the job. DH's job needs him to be able to always access his computer and notes. He has two monitors in addition to a laptop. Also his personal laptop sits there. You can probably pilot the space shuttle with the number of monitors. He is not messy, but his office table is cluttered. I WFH part time and I am more mobile. I have portable monitors I attach to my laptop. My desk is in the master. It is a standing desk. I also have various papers, notes, a journal for writing things down and they are not put away. If someone calls me I need them at a moments notice. Our desks are cluttered but clean. The things in there cannot always be in a bin at the end of the day. 

You need to find space. Permanent space. Re-arranging and reframing is the way IMO.

 

[KungFuPanda]

What's the layout of your home?  My dh worked from home about 10 years before the pandemic.  At first his office was everywhere.  Computers were everywhere.  We solved the problem by turning the dining room into a kid bedroom and putting DH upstairs in the small bedroom.  It just worked out that way since we needed to move DS to the ground floor for accessibility.  Dh's office is a disaster, but it has a door.  You need a door and to write off that space.  If he's anything like my DH, he will never just decide to completely organize it one day.  The best my husband does is move piles and sweep occasionally. It is what it is.  That room pays for the rest of the house.

So, what's your blueprint.  Is there a guest room you can give up.  It would be less disruptive day-to-day if guests crashed in the family room.  Can you install pocket or barn doors on the space.  If you want to maintain the light, you can do a frosted glass situation.  Would covering the walls with bookcases that have doors help? Or would he leave them all open all the time?  Is there any other place with light that you can block off easier?  Can you put a large egress window in the basement and move him down there? 

We started with Dh in the master bedroom.  It made sense at first because we don't really use that room during office hours, but hs job requires SO MANY darned computers that it was impossible to sustain.  Would he consider investing in some sort of out building like a large shed that you can heat?  He needs the space and you need to not see it.  

Have your read "Becoming?"  Hearing Michelle Obama describe her husband's office . . . no matter where they lived, as The Pit might be what made me give up.  With every resource in the free world that man can't keep a neat workspace.  I quit.  I just close the door and quit.  I'm not even a neat freak.  Dh is just THAT bad.

[alisoncooks]

I don’t think this is something the OP just has to accept and live with. If this family room is actively used for the family (ie. it’s the only public living space), then he needs to work to make it useful for everyone. His job may be from home now, but as the primary “homemaker” and homeschooling mom, that space was OP’s “work space” too..it needs to be functional for both.

[DreamerGirl]

29 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

I don’t think this is something the OP just has to accept and live with. If this family room is actively used for the family (ie. it’s the only public living space), then he needs to work to make it useful for everyone. His job may be from home now, but as the primary “homemaker” and homeschooling mom, that space was OP’s “work space” too..it needs to be functional for both.

Both need to compromise. There is a workable solution that is happening pretty much all over the country. There are solutions. 

But honestly OP saying my house as she framed the topic header is something that jumped out as not productive to me. 

If her DH's job is the primary salary that pays the mortgage like mine, I think all on this thread would be upset if he said it was his house because of that.

This is not an either or situation. There are solutions, but it starts with compromise and starts by saying our house. Not his or her house.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/trofast-storage-combination-with-boxes-white-white-s99228476/

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/trofast-storage-combination-with-boxes-light-white-stained-pine-white-s79102958/

(these are all stackable)

Kallax is great as a room divider:

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/kallax-shelf-unit-high-gloss-white-20305745/

Use bins for closed storage.

 

[Grace Hopper]

53 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

What's the layout of your home?  My dh worked from home about 10 years before the pandemic.  At first his office was everywhere.  Computers were everywhere.  We solved the problem by turning the dining room into a kid bedroom and putting DH upstairs in the small bedroom.  It just worked out that way since we needed to move DS to the ground floor for accessibility.  Dh's office is a disaster, but it has a door.  You need a door and to write off that space.  If he's anything like my DH, he will never just decide to completely organize it one day.  The best my husband does is move piles and sweep occasionally. It is what it is.  That room pays for the rest of the house.

So, what's your blueprint.  Is there a guest room you can give up.  It would be less disruptive day-to-day if guests crashed in the family room.  Can you install pocket or barn doors on the space.  If you want to maintain the light, you can do a frosted glass situation.  Would covering the walls with bookcases that have doors help? Or would he leave them all open all the time?  Is there any other place with light that you can block off easier?  Can you put a large egress window in the basement and move him down there? 

We started with Dh in the master bedroom.  It made sense at first because we don't really use that room during office hours, but hs job requires SO MANY darned computers that it was impossible to sustain.  Would he consider investing in some sort of out building like a large shed that you can heat?  He needs the space and you need to not see it.  

Have your read "Becoming?"  Hearing Michelle Obama describe her husband's office . . . no matter where they lived, as The Pit might be what made me give up.  With every resource in the free world that man can't keep a neat workspace.  I quit.  I just close the door and quit.  I'm not even a neat freak.  Dh is just THAT bad.

100 years ago when we first started homeschooling, I picked up a book by Vicky Caruana called The Organized Homeschooler. One of the first exercises in the book was to walk through each room of your house and, forgetting what it was called on the floorplan, make a list of possible uses of the space. The dining room could be an office, a kids bedroom, a homeschool room. The breakfast nook could be a library. an upstairs bedroom could be a home office or the homeschool room. This was an especially helpful idea since I needed to accommodate a grand piano, a homeschool classroom, and my husband‘s office because he has always worked from home. Seriously you don’t have to use any of the rooms the way the builder says they’re supposed to be used except for those that have fixtures like the kitchen and bathrooms. 

[Starr]

Enough trouble with executive function and it won't matter what you try to do. Try to find a solution so he has his space to work. I would move bedrooms or find a way to close off the family room for him or someone else in the family. Deal with the trash and let the rest go. If he's going to be in the office a couple of days a week maybe he can keep some of the clutter there. It's hard when you weren't planning for this when you picked the house. 

[TheReader]

So, we're dealing with this as well, only the space my DH has claimed is half of the dining room, and it is the first thing you see when you walk in the house. The window faces the street, there is no separation at all, the front door opens into an entryway, to the right is a small alcove that houses the garage entrance & front closet; to the left, tiny wall (with open cutouts) and overly wide "doorway" (roughly 3 door-widths wide) and the dining room (whereas the wall with the cutout is less than one door-width wide). 

So, open.  

What we've done thus far:
-- added a small 3-drawer unit just to the side of his chair, between chair/wall, for storing his most needed "desk items" (papers, etc)
--added a small 3-shelf unit just to the other side of his chair, for his clock/radio, books, more papers, headsets (for conference calls), shipping materials, 
--added storage bins on the shelf on our dining table -- fortunately we had, already, a 2-table set up, each one with pedestal middles/"legs" with shelves in the legs; we tweaked the storage bins that were there to fit what DH needed for his storage

It is still not perfect. We lucked out in that the furniture already permitted us to split the room, slightly, into "dining room" and "office" by moving the 2 tables apart vs. together, taking out/putting in leaves, rotating the one table, and setting it fully against the wall as the "desk" space.  It's still not perfect, and now that it's fully permanent, we may yet reevaluate whether something different would be better. 

If we still needed more storage, a larger bookshelf could easily work where the small shelf is, for instance. 

So, yes, sit down and ask him what sort of furniture would work better. Could a corner be carved out into an actual office set-up for him, with a tall shelf that would allow lots of storage, either in bins, upright filing things (like those "magazine rack" file folder/in box things), etc. Does he need a better desk with more storage? Drawers? Have him help brainstorm what would work, approach it as you two tackling it together. It's not nagging to say "okay, so now that this is permanent, how do we make it feel more permanent at home, vs a temporary make-shift space?" 

Best of luck; it's a shift for sure. 

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, thewellerman said:

Can you periodically go in and toss things in bins by category?

I would NOT sort through his stuff and toss it into bins.  This is his work stuff.  I would go thermonuclear if my DH decided to tidy up my work things.  Personal stuff is one thing, but you don't mess around with someone's work papers.

OP, your husband needs a dedicated work space that is totally his. You need to not deal with his clutter. Is there any other room in the house, (one with a door), that he can use exclusively as his office?

[thewellerman]

37 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I would NOT sort through his stuff and toss it into bins.  This is his work stuff.  I would go thermonuclear if my DH decided to tidy up my work things.  Personal stuff is one thing, but you don't mess around with someone's work papers.

OP, your husband needs a dedicated work space that is totally his. You need to not deal with his clutter. Is there any other room in the house, (one with a door), that he can use exclusively as his office?

Oh, no.  I would never do that either!  And absolutely not papers!  I'm not suggesting she organize what he actually uses.  

I meant like a pile of cords, or bags of chips, the pile of clothes in the corner, put the books back on the shelf.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, thewellerman said:

Oh, no.  I would never do that either!  And absolutely not papers!  I'm not suggesting she organize what he actually uses.  

I meant like a pile of cords, or bags of chips, the pile of clothes in the corner, put the books back on the shelf.  

If you are dealing with someone who has a visual memory, even moving the items around the work papers can cause problems.

Her dh should have the ability to control his workspace.  Obviously if it's a shared small room, some compromises should be discussed, but her husband's ability to organize his space should be just as recognized and "allowed" as her ability to organize her space.  Way back in the time of the dinosaurs, in my early married years, I would make value judgments that my cleanness was superior to my husband's messiness. That wasn't fair of me, and it's not a healthy mindset in a marriage. 

[thewellerman]

15 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If you are dealing with someone who has a visual memory, even moving the items around the work papers can cause problems.

Her dh should have the ability to control his workspace.  Obviously if it's a shared small room, some compromises should be discussed, but her husband's ability to organize his space should be just as recognized and "allowed" as her ability to organize her space.  Way back in the time of the dinosaurs, in my early married years, I would make value judgments that my cleanness was superior to my husband's messiness. That wasn't fair of me, and it's not a healthy mindset in a marriage. 

I was starting from the assumption of an initial conversation, and then she can add those non-invasive tidying tasks to her routine.  

[sbgrace]

I am so glad I asked this. The replies--both the practical ideas and reframing and rethinking--all have been helpful.

Unfortunately, this isn't a space we can block off. The mud room and back door is on the back side of it and our laundry is near there, too. It's also been a family hang out and media area, though some of that has already shifted. We don't have alternative space for him, unfortunately, except an unfinished storage room with the deep freeze and no natural light--I don't think that's fair to him. (I know I titled this thread my house--but I certainly see this as our home...and the problem is the best space for him also needs to be used by all of us.) 

My husband will, I think, be open to ways to make it look better--he's relatively open and flexible and doesn't offend easily. He would say this is a weak area of his. But he doesn't have the exective function (or personality) to upkeep anything. At least that's how I think he will respond. I am going to use the thoughts on this thread to see if he and I can come up with ideas that might work. If he's clearly not open to it, I will have to reframe in ways some of you have suggested for my own peace. Given our history in this area, I'm pretty sure I will, likely, need to do acceptance and reframing work no matter his response. He's just not wired to keep things in order, and I can't mess with his work materials. But maybe we can at least make it a little more functional and presentable. Maybe we can figure out some ways to make it easy for him. And I'll work on letting go of the frustration. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by sbgrace

[Shoeless]

52 minutes ago, thewellerman said:

I was starting from the assumption of an initial conversation, and then she can add those non-invasive tidying tasks to her routine.  

No way. Tidying up his work space is 100% his job. 

This is not 1955. 

[DreamerGirl]

25 minutes ago, sbgrace said:

But he doesn't have the exective function (or personality) to upkeep anything.

OP, I am someone who was raised by a grandmother who taught me to wash rice and meat until the water ran clear. I have never stopped sanitizing groceries and since I am paranoid about COVID, you can probably operate on my kitchen floor. All these extra info to let you know I am a clean freak and have no executive function issues. Probably need the opposite. 

Yet, my desk surface is visibly cluttered. The pen is out and not put away. My lovely moleskin notebook is always open with the pen acting as a book mark. It has papers around, stickies all over. I do not tidy my desk after each day. DH is the same. The work computer is always on.

The reason is, he and I are in IT. We need to be ready to solve things at a moment's notice. It is because something major has happened and every minute we delay costs money. So our workplace is set up such that we can get to work at once, not dig out something or look for a pen or browse through a note book. Every single thing we need is in that notebook. 

Like @MissLemon said if anyone touched it, there will be war. Even my 5 year old knows that. Pretty much every single person who is in IT in our friend's circle is like that. It is controlled chaos. Not everything can be put into pretty boxes at the end of the day and I also hate that because it reduces desk space.

Find out why he needs his desk cluttered like that. Is it for ease, accessibility ? I obviously do not know your husband, but it may not be a lack of executive function is what I am trying to say. 

The best would be somewhere where  he has his office space and you do not see the clutter. The whole pretty boxes for papers may not work for him. But I could be wrong. So ask why he needs his desk that way. 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by DreamerGirl

[prairiewindmomma]

16 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

The reason is, he and I are in IT. We need to be ready to solve things at a moment's notice. It is because something major has happened and every minute we delay costs money. So our workplace is set up such that we can get to work at once, not dig out something or look for a pen or browse through a note book. Every single thing we need is in that notebook. 

Like @MissLemon said if anyone touched it, there will be war. Even my 5 year old knows that. Pretty much every single person who is in IT in our friend's circle is like that. It is controlled chaos. Not everything can be put into pretty boxes at the end of the day and I also hate that because it reduces desk space.

 

Yup. 

[kbutton]

A lot of people are assuming that the OP’s husband’s organization works well for him. I am hearing that this might not entirely be the case and could mean his stuff creeps all over the house.

If he could use some help organizationally, I think the two quoted posts are honorable ways of interacting on the subject.

I am a visual organizer, so it takes me a while to figure out organization that works for me, and my desk at work was always controlled chaos. 

5 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Yes, this! And approach it as helping him not shaming him. Saying I can see that you need some stuff to help turn this into a more permanent office space, can I help you figure out what we should buy? I am naturally messy and I would not be offended by that. Maybe start with cord management, that won't offend him and will make it look less chaotic right away. Then coming up with some sort of system that works for how he thinks and works. My guess is he needs open bins because if he has to put a lid on it he will either not put it in there or once the lid is almost forget it is there. And labels. Lots and lots of labels. Could you get cube shelving to put in there and bins, with labels, for his stuff? You can call them project boxes. Clutterbuck has some stuff about project boxes. Once everything has a home and the courts are better managed then see where you are at.

 

6 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Is organization something he wants help with? Dh wanted to be organized, but didn’t know how to get from point A to point B. For him, organization was low on his priority list for his time. 
 

Questions that were helpful for me to ask him:

1. Is this something you need immediate access to, something you need to be able to access, or is this an archive thing? Archive things got boxed, labeled and put away. Able to access got put into labeled trofast bins (things like cords, office supplies, etc.) The immediate access things all got designated places. Like, we bought a pen jar for all of the pens. We bought him a wide enough standing desk that he can have three screens going plus a place for his papers not in his immediate work space. 
 

2. How many of these things do you need? We discovered he was rebuying things when he couldn’t find them. Labeling the bins cut back on the duplication.

3. What would be helpful that you don’t have now? The surprising answer here for us was a wall mount for his guitar. He plays in 5 minute intervals between meetings as a stress relief/brain break. His guitar is literally mounted in his workspace. I never could have guessed that. 

4. How are you going to build time into your schedule to maintain this? This isn’t a shaming thing—it’s a project management thing. Creating an end to work time and regrouping for the next day had never occurred to him for the home environment.

——-

He may think things are fine, and for that I would suggest a screen and pest control. His work habits don’t reflect on you personally.

 

1 hour ago, sbgrace said:

 We don't have alternative space for him, unfortunately, except an unfinished storage room with the deep freeze and no natural light--I don't think that's fair to him. (I know I titled this thread my house--but I certainly see this as our home...and the problem is the best space for him also needs to be used by all of us.) 

My husband will, I think, be open to ways to make it look better--he's relatively open and flexible and doesn't offend easily. He would say this is a weak area of his. But he doesn't have the exective function (or personality) to upkeep anything. 

I don’t think a lack of natural light disqualifies the space—many people work in such spaces. Unfinished? Depends—is the issue climate control? Aesthetics? You don’t have to answer, but I think things could be made nicer on a budget if it’s clean, climate-controlled, etc. Friends of mine have a very cozy unfinished basement space (cement walls, exposed joists, unfinished floor), and they spend tons of time down there crafting and watching TV. They added shelving, an area rug, etc. Other folks have used closets as offices even before Covid.

Shared spaces need to be livable for everyone.

[thewellerman]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

No way. Tidying up his work space is 100% his job. 

This is not 1955. 

Who said it was 1955?  The mess bothers her, not him.  Why can't she ask if she can put some of stuff that isn't his papers and immediate use items away?  The other alternatives are to make him change, or ignore it.  

I'm visualizing 2 separate issues.  Work clutter, which just is what it is, and room clutter.  If it bugs her, and he doesn't mind if she does, why can't she put away the extra stuff if she wants?  With the extra stuff out of the way, the work clutter won't seem like so much of a mess, and much easier to ignore.

My husband works many, many hours a week, and just doesn't have time to do lots of tidying.  He isn't messy, but he is incredibly busy, and appreciates when I ease his load.  This can be mutually respectful, especially with good communication.  

Edited January 19, 2022 by thewellerman
Clarity

[Tap]

Would it work for you to offer to be his secretary for 30 minutes each day? He could assign you tasks like "file these, shred these, scan and fax etc." Some people are better at delegating, than doing. 🙂 This way you start to learn his system and can maybe offer suggestions on organization for the long term. 

For my son who has ADHD. I would periodically drop 2 cardboard boxes off in his room and say "put any paper recycling in this box and put any documents that needed to be shredded in this box. And I will make it go away!".  I would also give him a garbage can and tell him to toss garbage in there. It really helped by giving him specific tasks. He didn't have to clean it all up, which can be overwhelming. But giving him 3 choices. 'recycle, shred, garbage', it gave him the chance to clear some items, without feeling the need to conquer it all at once. When I did this, he would produce copious amount of paper to get rid of. LOL 

I understand the need for him to have an at home office, but that doesn't mean he can trash your house in the meanwhile. He may never be super organized and tidy, but he can build better habits, but he may need support to do so. 

[kristin0713]

3 hours ago, sbgrace said:

the problem is the best space for him also needs to be used by all of us

Does he need all of his work stuff with him all day? Can you use the unfinished space to set up a landing area for the bulk of his stuff, and he can use the family room to sit during the day and work on the project of the moment? Obviously, I have no idea what he does.  This may not be feasible if he needs quick access to lots of files and papers and things all day long. Another idea might be a big rolling cart that he can pull out during the day and roll it back into the storage area at the end of the day. 

[katilac]

Well, I was going to relax for the evening, but now I feel like I should go pick up my work space on the dining room table 😂

[Clarita]

A few things, I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if already mentioned.

1. Since it is now more permanent see if you all as a family can find a better space for him. Some compromise may be necessary. You may also see if his company offers some monetary help in that area (my husband's work offered one-time monetary help for office equipment the caveat is the company owned whatever you bought. - mostly meaning if you left the company you'd have to give it back)

2. I had a job that actually required my office space to be super neat. I do not work that way. So at my cubicle I had a big ole drawer where I put my piles most workdays it meant that at the start of the work day I pulled piles out of the drawer and before I went home for the day I put all my piles back into the drawer. (I even had a poster board that I put up all my papers/post it notes that I needed out, that got pulled out and put back every workday.) You can substitute drawer with super oversized plastic container. 

[Carrie12345]

I highly encourage the Clutterbug quiz.  I don’t remember all the specifics except that I am a cricket who wants every detail in its assigned place where I can’t see it.
My spouse is NOT. Like, NOT-not!

There does need to be compromise, but it has to be based on what works for each individual and not necessarily what’s equally “fair”.  

I would do everything in my power to see if that unfinished space could be made workable. If it truly can’t, it can’t. But if it can, then the overall situation becomes SO much easier that it’s 100% worth seriously exploring how it could be. I’d even buy an artificial light “window” or two to see if that would do the trick.

Otherwise, knowing how his brain works (micro/macro, visual/hidden) can better narrow down what sorts of systems can corral the “stuff” without negatively impacting his workflow.

[DreamerGirl]

OP, I wanted to say that the displacement you feel is by no means unique to you.

When DS who has always been PS was dumped into VS, we had to scramble to arrange for a place for him too. His room was the obvious choice but it did not work as he needed something to visually separate school from home. In the end, my original workspace in the corner of the family room which was always empty before was the one that worked best. I moved to the master. But it took a lot of time to find what worked for both of us. Both DH and I were not new to WFH, but we worked at will and not all the time. It was a rough transition for both of us too. One of the things I still miss is office lunches on Friday where we would all go out. I always went for that. Thanksgiving pot luck, monthly birthday party cakes, random lunches, eating in the break room, talking with people, heck I even started missing the commute when I do not like driving. I always had my radio on. I have not listened to that station in 2 years.

So we had rituals where we would come together as a family and have lunch together as much as possible. DH and I still have lunch together as much as we can. Take a walk around the neighborhood. Take a coffee/tea break together.

I do not know if your DH is fond of WFH. Though I was all for WFH always in the beginning, 2 years later it is not as rosy. I work very well from home, but the human interaction you got from people and the friendships formed even casual is something I miss and I would consider myself an introvert.

So if you can find time to have lunch together, take a walk, share a beverage or something small to eat during the day, it is good to re-connect . It is grounding. It is good DH to take a break and it can make the transition easy for both of you. It is hard for that mental transition, but not impossible. You are not the only one who feel displaced and finds it hard to transition, it could be him too, so you are not alone. Also, you will eventually find a solution that works for both him and you even if it does not work the first time so keep trying.

Good luck !