I'm trying to decide how mad to be - Updated 10/29

[HomeAgain]

Okay, scenario.  Pretend you have a kid who has been involved with several extracurriculars over the years.  The most common things you hear are:

He carries himself like a mini adult.

He's a great kid, very patient with younger ones

He's friendly and overall fits in to any group he belongs to.

Never once has there been a discipline problem.  A little bit of "he got distracted toward the end" when he was younger, but you're fairly confident in his ability to handle himself in an appropriate manner.

 

Now pretend you are concerned about a problem in one of his extracurriculars, and the response from the person in charge is not to address the issue at hand, but to respond that this particular child is abrasive and a social outcast, neither of which appear to be true during the activity or after/before.  Oh, and that he's been this way for months.

There's no effective governing body for this activity and the person in charge seems to have serious issues with appropriate communication.  So there's no recourse except to pull the kid or let it ride for the rest of the program (12 weeks).

 

Play devil's advocate here and tell me honestly how I should respond to this.

Edited October 29, 2022 by HomeAgain

[TechWife]

I’d tell them that I’m  there to address one particular problem and that their input isn’t requested or needed in any other areas. If the person is not able to focus on the problem and be part of the solution, I’d get my kid out of that environment right away. IME, people like that are bullies and are threatened by confident kids. If the conversation proceeded in an appropriate direction, I’d base a decision on whether or not to keep my kid in on whether or not the resolution was satisfactory, including on whether or not this other person is willing and able to treat him with dignity and respect. A toxic adult can damage a kid faster than we know and kids are not as resilient as people pretend they are. We dealt with real PTSD due to a similar situation - my son was six.  

[Katy]

I’d ask the kid what’s going on and let them decide how to proceed. 

I personally had this situation with a teacher in my high school. It was in a department that was hard to staff. My mom didn’t believe me until she met her and had the exact experience I had. I did what I had to to get through. The school would do nothing and two years later when she did the same thing to the daughter of a school board member this teacher retired early, mid year. 

[JustEm]

I think it would depend on the problem how I would handle it. If it had to do with leadership I'd likely pull my kid given the response the leadership person gave.

If it involved other kids in the group I would push for the issue to be addressed by leadership and if they continued to deflect then I'd either seek out dealing with the parents directly or pull my kid.

That all is with the assumption that my kid actually had a problem with what was happening and didn't want to put up with it because of the activity

[HomeAgain]

10 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’d ask the kid what’s going on and let them decide how to proceed. 

I personally had this situation with a teacher in my high school. It was in a department that was hard to staff. My mom didn’t believe me until she met her and had the exact experience I had. I did what I had to to get through. The school would do nothing and two years later when she did the same thing to the daughter of a school board member this teacher retired early, mid year. 

The kid was in absolute tears the weekend before last.  It's a big issue.  He wants to drop the activity forever.  I wanted him to hang on so he can have the really, really good adult next year.  And the issue isn't one of those that has ambiguity.  There's always video evidence available on recall 24/7 to anyone who can log in.

After that exchange, I'm not so sure hanging on is worth it.  I'm even more frustrated because this kid got a group award yesterday from the others there that's kind of like student of the week, except it's for exceptional in activity- attitude, performance, teamwork are factored in.

[Bambam]

I might think that the adult in charge was surprised by the question/information that there was a problem.  So, some people go on the defensive and immediately go to attack the informer.   Based on that and my tolerance at the time for dealing with people like that and how important the activity was to my child and how important their participation was to the group, I'd either talk with kid about just leaving *or* I'd approach her again and say, look, you might not have been aware, but this is the problem. Not my kid's behavior, not this other red herring, but this *problem* here. Because she seems clueless, I might have several suggestions for her about how to deal with it (I tend to propose solutions when I point out a problem).  If I got satisfactory responses here, we'd stay to finish, but I might be tempted to stay more/help out more so I can see that adult-in-charge is not behaving inappropriately to my kid. I would also ask child to inform me if they thought there was a problem with that (this assumes that would work, I have one child who probably never would say anything)

Update as I just read your response about child being in tears. That's not good at all.
There is no governing authority to appeal to? Are there other adults-sorta-in-charge that could help? Are there past adults-in-charge that could help? 

If child is high school age, I might consider trying to work through the situation, but if they were younger, we'd be gone. And I'd tell the adult-in-charge why. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Bambam

[Katy]

11 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

The kid was in absolute tears the weekend before last.  It's a big issue.  He wants to drop the activity forever.  I wanted him to hang on so he can have the really, really good adult next year.  And the issue isn't one of those that has ambiguity.  There's always video evidence available on recall 24/7 to anyone who can log in.

After that exchange, I'm not so sure hanging on is worth it.  I'm even more frustrated because this kid got a group award yesterday from the others there that's kind of like student of the week, except it's for exceptional in activity- attitude, performance, teamwork are factored in.

I’d let the child drop it. 

The award makes me wonder if the other kids knew the adult was being a bully. Why can’t the activity be dropped this year and resumed next year?

[HomeAgain]

30 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’d let the child drop it. 

The award makes me wonder if the other kids knew the adult was being a bully. Why can’t the activity be dropped this year and resumed next year?

No, the other kids are oblivious to this particular issue, at least most of them.  And I'd prefer it to be that way.  The activity is developmentally skill based.  If really good person takes the higher track next year, the kid would not have had the constant practice to be able to be on that person's list.  If he takes the lower track, the kid can ask the really good person to let him move down - and it probably wouldn't be an issue, because that means the current person would have the higher track and wouldn't want him there anyway.

I ended up asking for feedback from people I trust who have worked with this kid recently in the same capacity and they were flabbergasted. I didn't give them the whole story, just hey, does this sound like this kid?  I need to know so I can address it effectively. 

I feel like I'm dealing with a toddler with this person.  The conversation went like this:

• I'm concerned and need to know what your plan is, because you talked about a plan but so far there isn't one.
• I don't have to give you one!
• Okay.............this is the issue and why it's really important we address this now.
• No it's not, and maybe if your kid wasn't an abrasive social outcast for the past few months then you wouldn't even see that as a possibility.
• Okay, no, here is the issue.  Issues with my kid can be resolved with real time communication when something happens.  We will totally support that and help put together a plan that includes effective, instant correction in your care and also secondary correction in ours.  This conversation is about this issue right here, what you said would happen, and what isn't happening.  We need to address this right now, and I will always have my email open for you to take up any behavioral issues so we can address them immediately.  This is not the time for it.  This conversation is about X.

Dh took him tonight.  It's supposed to be a "fun night" so the kid wanted to go, but I am really struggling to keep my temper with this person in charge of him.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

The kid was in absolute tears the weekend before last.  It's a big issue.  He wants to drop the activity forever.  I wanted him to hang on so he can have the really, really good adult next year.  And the issue isn't one of those that has ambiguity.  There's always video evidence available on recall 24/7 to anyone who can log in.

After that exchange, I'm not so sure hanging on is worth it.  I'm even more frustrated because this kid got a group award yesterday from the others there that's kind of like student of the week, except it's for exceptional in activity- attitude, performance, teamwork are factored in.

Trust his instincts. Get him out. We hung on for the really good teacher. She was really good, but she couldn’t undo the damage that had already been done. Quite honestly, it isn’t fair to the next teacher, but most of all to the child, to expect a good experience to make up for a bad one. It’s like telling someone to tolerate being beaten up because they can look forward to it stopping. The harm has been/is being caused, it can’t be un-caused. Honor your son’s request. He may or may not remember you removing him from an intolerable situation, but Chances are much greater that he will remember the time you made him stay. It will hurt him and could hurt your relationship with him. It’s not worth it. None of it is worth it. 
 

ETA - you mentioned recordings available. Download them & keep them for your records. Inform authorities if that’s appropriate. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by TechWife

[GoodGrief3]

Is the "abrasive social outcast" phrase a quote, or a paraphrase?

If the conversation above went exactly as described above, I would document, and take it to someone higher up in the organization. This does not sound like someone who should be working with youth.

[City Mouse]

If the kid doesn’t want to go, I wouldn’t make him.  Went through a similar problem when my DS was younger. He wanted to play soccer so badly for a long time. When we finally got to a place where he could join a team, his second season was a horrible experience with a horrible coach. I won’t bother sharing all the details, but DS started to hate going. I felt bad for him because this was something that he had wanted to do for a long time, but in the end it was best for us both that he just quit even though it was middle of the season. 

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

The kid was in absolute tears the weekend before last.  It's a big issue.  He wants to drop the activity forever.  I wanted him to hang on so he can have the really, really good adult next year.  And the issue isn't one of those that has ambiguity.  There's always video evidence available on recall 24/7 to anyone who can log in.

Drop the class. Here is my devil's advocate and many may think I'm overreacting (which may be), but I have too much personal experience and too much friend experience to ignore. If your kid thinks it's a big issue and wants to drop the activity forever follow his instincts and yours. I've heard too many experiences where a kid tells their parents I don't want to do this anymore a big issue is happening, then later everyone finds out something abusive is happening. 

[HomeAgain]

36 minutes ago, GoodGrief3 said:

Is the "abrasive social outcast" phrase a quote, or a paraphrase?

If the conversation above went exactly as described above, I would document, and take it to someone higher up in the organization. This does not sound like someone who should be working with youth.

His abrasiveness is keeping him from being socially accepted.  The person goes on to detail how then it's his fault that there is a problem and that it's his bed to lie in.
Half this group he was with 2 years ago.  Another third was in his group last year.   Many are in his second activity this year or did a second activity with him last year through Zoom.  Never, ever has there been an issue with his behavior and they all get along well for the most part.  They know each other enough to be direct and accountable with each other, which makes for pretty healthy relationships in person, on Messenger Kids, and on Zoom.

I think I'll end up supporting ds no matter what he decides, but the alternative to keep up his skills comparably is $60/week (on top of what we've already spent this year) and a long early morning drive.  He'd get better support, and he loves going to the other place (fantastic professional running it).  The only problem is that won't start until close to the end of the program here, which presents a time crunch for the next round preparation.  He really does love the activity, but it's wearing him down to deal with it all this year.

[prairiewindmomma]

Could you tell from the video what caused the crying? I would make no decisions until I saw the video, but I would be inclined to keep the kid in the activity if it is something he loves—just with another provider.

 

[HomeAgain]

11 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Could you tell from the video what caused the crying? I would make no decisions until I saw the video, but I would be inclined to keep the kid in the activity if it is something he loves—just with another provider.

 

Yes, absolutely.  The person refuses to review the video.  It's front, center, and obvious what the person is doing and how he is handling a decent sized problem. 

There isn't an opportunity to really switch for another 12 weeks.  The $60/week option doesn't provide the full experience, but it's very, very good and how ds improved remarkably in a short period of time.  It's an intensive professional-run workshop and 1 hour of independent skill work (2h total a week).  Right now he has 3-4 group sessions and possible 1h independent time each week. (4-5 hours).

The really good guy next year would be happy to have ds back.  He had him last year for group sessions and loved him.  Unfortunately this year he stayed a level below ds and wasn't available.  Next year he would be, and that might keep ds going. 

[prairiewindmomma]

My advice as an older mom (kid in college as well as the younger set)….. 
 

I have watched a lot of families sink $$$$$ into activities for their kids, doing 15+ year runs of ballet, gymnastics, travel ball and the like. A very small handful made it into college ball or went pro for a handful of years in ballet but the very vast majority did not. If you talked with the parents when these kids were 10-14, they were 100% certain they would continue the activity past high school and all of them reassured me that coaches etc were telling them that their kid could go pro. As a result, they paid $$$$$ for intensives, 1:1 coaching and the like. 
 

The reality is, for almost every kid, it can be a fun and engaging way to spend a childhood. If something is fun and engaging and there is a good balance of time going on—keep with it. The flip side of that is that time and money can only be spent once. The very vast majority of my friends spent weekends with families apart, spent money better put into retirement or college funds, and their kids went from activity to activity without a lot of downtime. 
 

I have seen kids torn down by bad coaches. I wouldn’t leave a kid in a bad coach situation for the hope of something better in the future. 12 weeks is only 12 weeks. I would pull him and move on—especially where he already has other interests.

[HomeAgain]

I appreciate that perspective, @prairiewindmomma.  We have no delusions about ds's skill.  He is perfectly, entirely ordinary and this will never be a professional career.  🙂 It's a good thing in this respect.  He's not the worst, not the best, and it's a good area where people don't look at him weird for what he can do, unlike some other areas of his life.  He is perfectly normal here and I'm reluctant for him to lose that.

[Tanaqui]

When I saw the title, before I even clicked, I said "Either not mad at all or nail them to the wall, there's no middle ground" and, having read it, I was absolutely right.

Pull him out. The only reason to do an activity at this age that's worth the time and money is the enjoyment. If your kid isn't enjoying it - pull him out. Do NOT let this person destroy whatever residual enjoyment he still has. He can always go back to this later.

[Farrar]

Another vote to pull him. He wants to leave. Your job is to be in his corner. This is how you can do that and show that you support and trust him. 

Whether he leaves or not, in terms of responding, I would definitely call out the adult on their crappy response. "I asked about X and you've decided to instead tell me everything that you think is wrong with my child. If you've been having an issue with my child, then you really should have brought that up soon and not used it as a way to deflect from X."

I don't see what you've said about your kid - that he's a focused, well-behaved, "mini-adult" as necessarily at odds with a kid who is struggling to fit in with peers or possibly even sometimes rubs peers the wrong way. I have no idea if that's part of the picture or not. If it's not, then the adult was just deflecting from their own failure to manage the issues in the group. If there's some kernel of truth there, then the adult has proven through their unkind assessment that they're not the right person to help oversee your kid in a difficult social situation where they need someone competent and capable.

[HomeAgain]

Thanks, guys.

He did go last night, willingly, and had fun doing it.  Some of the same issues that I tried to address happened again so ds & dh spent time brainstorming on ways he could handle it if he wanted to continue.  Things like telling, not asking, the adult that they need a minute and to go do independent work or get a drink of water, reinforcing his personal space boundaries, putting his energy into outworking the group...I've let him know he is absolutely under no obligation to continue to go or stay if something happens.  And I just have to say thank goodness for vacation.  It'll be a welcome break.

I'm still extremely upset.  But when I look at it in context of the entire conversation, it fits a distinct pattern of deflecting and blaming, refusing to take responsibility and making assumptions.  Which means I may as well talk to a brick wall.   There isn't going to be a middle ground here or resolution that takes into account the person in charge.  Whether or not my kid has the qualities the adult complained about.....I don't know. I'm not going to trust his assessment of the matter, but I can always keep it in mind.

 

[HomeAgain]

I figured I would update this.

DS is done.  We gave him several tools of dealing, but the situation got dangerous, blatantly against the ethics code, against the adult contract detailing how to safely work with kids, and least of which- against the spirit of the program.  Everything is on video, so it's easy to see ds doing his best to keep to himself and the adult-in-charge's kid hurting him purposefully.  At this point the adult got mad at ds.  Since dh was watching the live feed and I was watching right there, we know exactly what went down at the same time and our gut reaction matched ds's.  He walked away, got his bag together, and we left. He will not return. That final point was so dangerous it could have injured ds enough to be done until September. 

Dh and I have set up a meeting with the local governing body, made a formal complaint to the state/national governing body, and will probably be paying a year's fees ($1200 we don't have) to switch ds to another program for the last 6 weeks that will make room for him.  The formal complaint is not going to help, but we spent the past few weeks being gaslit by this and the other adult about ds, and other parents are now horrified at what has been going on under their noses.  We hadn't told them before.  And the complaint is being made public, along with all our documents, so there is no question that what these adults did was very, very wrong. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by HomeAgain

[scholastica]

I’m so sorry it came to this for you and your family. You are a good mom. 

[Kanin]

Wow. That is incredibly bad. I'm glad the other parents are seeing what happened, though. 

[Farrar]

Wow indeed. I was not picturing a situation where things were potentially on the cusp of getting that level of out of hand. I'm glad he's done and it sounds like you and your dh are doing a great job of being his advocates.

[HomeAgain]

Well, we're going to be fighting.  I just got an email saying that there is a complaint against me and I need to come in.

You guys, I have not said a word to either adult in charge since this thread finished the first time.  I said nothing last night besides "I don't care" when one of the adults nattered at me about my kid as I helped him pack up.  Seriously, nothing.  And *I* am having a complaint filed against ME?

No.

 

[Harriet Vane]

18 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Well, we're going to be fighting.  I just got an email saying that there is a complaint against me and I need to come in.

You guys, I have not said a word to either adult in charge since this thread finished the first time.  I said nothing last night besides "I don't care" when one of the adults nattered at me about my kid as I helped him pack up.  Seriously, nothing.  And *I* am having a complaint filed against ME?

No.

 

Bring that video along. And don't go to the meeting alone.

Edited to add--I think Farrar's advice is the better way to go. You've filed a formal complaint. Don't interact anymore.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Harriet Vane

[Farrar]

Are you obliged to go in? I mean, if you're also filing a complaint...? Is he still involved in the larger organization and will there be ramifications if you don't? I don't really understand what sort of organization this is, but if I say, had a kid in a city rec sport, and they used abusive language and I filed a city complaint against them, and then they asked me to come in to discuss a totally other complaint - a parent saying I said or did something inappropriate, for example. Then I would not go in. I would send a message to say, sorry, I'm not involved in this class anymore. If this complaint rises to the level of a legal issue, then you can contact me through other means or bring this up during arbitration and investigation of the complaint with the city. Otherwise it seems like you're just opening yourself up. Like, the more time you have with them at this point, the more they can trump up to hold things against you.

[saraha]

You go get them

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, Farrar said:

Are you obliged to go in? I mean, if you're also filing a complaint...? Is he still involved in the larger organization and will there be ramifications if you don't? I don't really understand what sort of organization this is, but if I say, had a kid in a city rec sport, and they used abusive language and I filed a city complaint against them, and then they asked me to come in to discuss a totally other complaint - a parent saying I said or did something inappropriate, for example. Then I would not go in. I would send a message to say, sorry, I'm not involved in this class anymore. If this complaint rises to the level of a legal issue, then you can contact me through other means or bring this up during arbitration and investigation of the complaint with the city. Otherwise it seems like you're just opening yourself up. Like, the more time you have with them at this point, the more they can trump up to hold things against you.

Yeah. What she said.

[HomeAgain]

9 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Are you obliged to go in? I mean, if you're also filing a complaint...? Is he still involved in the larger organization and will there be ramifications if you don't? I don't really understand what sort of organization this is, but if I say, had a kid in a city rec sport, and they used abusive language and I filed a city complaint against them, and then they asked me to come in to discuss a totally other complaint - a parent saying I said or did something inappropriate, for example. Then I would not go in. I would send a message to say, sorry, I'm not involved in this class anymore. If this complaint rises to the level of a legal issue, then you can contact me through other means or bring this up during arbitration and investigation of the complaint with the city. Otherwise it seems like you're just opening yourself up. Like, the more time you have with them at this point, the more they can trump up to hold things against you.

Yes, I am, because this is the governing body where we lodged our complaint.  And I'm willing to bet that the complaint was lodged by the adult-in-charge whose child purposefully tried to injure ours - who was standing, talking to a friend, definitely can't even claim that he was provoking anything. 

So,

I've printed out:
-the organizational ethics code
-the national age-related guidelines
-the specific leader guide

Much is highlighted.

I also have
-every interaction between myself and one of the adults in charge, printed, highlighted, and organized.  They all show professional behavior on my part.
-the video of the current issue

AND

-a list of questions with references to each guide/interaction/highlighted part
-a bulleted list of concerns, sorted by guide/issues

Lastly,

-I have asked one of the parents who observed to be in the room for the meeting.  Dh and I will both be there, but this needs a witness who is not directly involved.

 

I am not impressed with the way this is being handled, but I have to marvel at the expediency in which they are acting erroneously.  I had planned on napping today.  Last night was so stressful for all three of us that we did not get much sleep.  Instead, I've put together a case, simple to read and follow but one in which I am extremely ticked off doing it.

[freesia]

Good for you!  I hope the truth comes out. Do the complaining adults know you have the video?

[Miss Tick]

9 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

-I have asked one of the parents who observed to be in the room for the meeting.

Great idea

[wintermom]

I'm so sorry that your ds and your family are going through this. I really, really hate adults who do this kind dispicable of thing. Kids have at least immaturity as an excuse, but adults in a position of authority in youth activities need to be held to a much higher standard of ethics and behaviour.

I hope you nail this guy and get him permanently removed from youth activities. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by wintermom

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

Good for you!  I hope the truth comes out. Do the complaining adults know you have the video?

They should.  Any person in the country can have the video as long as they have a log-in.  Most of us in the group have subscriptions to the VoD site because the pandemic restricted access last year for in person observation.  It's why dh was watching from work.

I have a feeling this will hinge on the validity of the adult's claim that his child did it as an accident.  (Hint: it was not an accident.  It's a strongly deliberate action that required changing body positions to get the effect he wanted).  There was also a pattern of behavior being shown in the 19min32sec prior to ds leaving the situation.

Regardless.  I have enough written backup to show that one of the adults in charge not only ignored a bullying situation, but assisted in giving it room to flourish, and evidence the other adult turned his back on it on camera.

 

[Soror]

Good luck 🤞 at your meeting. What low life jerks, hopefully they do the right thing and kick the offenders out, but that is probably too much to ask.

[Catwoman]

We will all be there with you in spirit when you go to the meeting. I’m so sorry it came to this, but I’m glad you and your dh are fighting!

Even if you don’t get the satisfaction you want, your ds will know that you’re willing to go to the mat for him and that you’ve always got has back, and that is the most important thing!

You've got this!!!

[Arctic Bunny]

Go get ‘em @HomeAgain

[wintermom]

I also wanted to say that I'm SOOOOO happy your ds didn't sustain an injury from that nasty kid! And for a father to support unsafe, ugly behaviour like that is unconscionable. It really makes my blood boil. 

I have a coaching background, and this kind of poor behaviour among athletes and adult leaders is the worst. My proudest sport moment was when the Canadian-led anti-doping committee had Russia banned from Olympic competition. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by wintermom

[HomeAgain]

If anyone wondered how this turned out, here is one last update to this.

Dh actually went in to the meeting and I stayed home with ds.  Turns out, no, I was not obliged to go in. I wasn't going to deal with their nonsense and try to change our limited time. And oh, boy, once things started coming out it was a waterfall.  After they filed a local complaint against me, we went to the national safety board and skipped all the steps in between.  It got some attention, suffice to say. The local governing board was unwilling to look at the video and set a meeting time until this point (they wanted to switch the meeting we set up to the complaint about me, and set up the other "at a later time").  When we went to the national safety org, it was a "holy sh!!" moment that expedited and shed light on quite a bit.

The adults in charge had to answer for their lack of basic safety requirements, for putting kids at risk in various scenarios, and for not utilizing the safety trained adults they had at their disposal.

The complaint against me was quietly swept away. Given that it was trumped up and a result of the lack of the adult competence, it was not welcome.

Changes WERE made, but not nearly enough.  There was still no plan for direct accountability when things happen, but the adults in charge (ALL of them) know we are not going to continue with the current approach of "I'm not getting involved in relationships" and "I'm not making changes" that the one adult tried to pass off.  In writing. As we are telling him there is bullying going on and it's visual, both the act and the effects.

Ds did not return for a week.  I shared with parents the video so they could see exactly why, and who are involved. During that week we did the same thing for fun.  He got to meet up with kids he knew from one of the other programs and join in with them. So, he's not worried about switching and not knowing anyone, but he wants to see this through to the end (about a month and a half or so).

 

Apparently, I'm the scary one, lol, because now the adults in charge won't even look at me.  It's like watching crabs scuttle away. Crabs that knew they read the situation and the kid very, very wrong and will not have the guts to apologize. I'm guessing having someone refuse to take their poor offering was not something they had much experienced before this. DS is on a firm plan that consists of one thing: if he doesn't feel safe, he doesn't need to be there. He has exercised that for this upcoming week, choosing a different activity because he wasn't comfortable and frankly, there is little that keeps him going back.   He wants to stay with his group, though, and I want to honor that, within reason, and with me standing right there watching every move.  So, uh, maybe that's why I'm the scary one. 😄 If it means he attends only once in the next month, I don't care. If he doesn't go back, I don't care.  Dh wanted him to because he considered it all better, and I explained it was like asking a victim to volunteer to get punched again.  We don't ignore our gut for the sake of politeness. Once I put it that way, he saw what I was saying.

Unfortunately the last 4 months or so resulted in an escalation of what we call "spinning" here, where ds goes on anxious repetitive movement/verbal/noise making cycles.  It's something that happens when he gets tired sometimes, but he was growing out of it.  Now it's back with a vengeance. They're hard to explain, but it's not stimming or tics.  It's a controlled chaos. He had one the other night after his activity with his group and oldest ds got him back down to a normal at around 10pm.   Last night he did a skill-based focus group, same venue, same sort of work, but different kids.  He was fine.  I can count about 10 of these episodes in the last month, though.

I am SO MAD that had there been adult accountability from the beginning, much of what escalated, especially with the adults' behavior, could have been resolved. Now? Everyone has scars and it's so little, so late in the game.  I guess I answered my topic question.  VERY MAD.  Dealing with this level of incompetence is draining.  Ds doesn't even know the half of what went on, though he was a part of it and affected by it.  My biggest takeaway?  The part that hurts the most?  DS read it well when he packed up his bag.  On the way home he said, "Mom, they didn't even ask if I was okay." And he was right.  The adults got mad, but the complete lack of concern for his safety was palpable. They have yet to apologize to him. At least with the information and videos out there parents can make up their mind next year on whether they want to work with these people.

[HomeAgain]

I thought I'd add a little to this.

It's a new year.  New, competent leadership. My kid is THRIVING.  The above post still makes me want to cry when I can see everything he lost last year and the sheer amount of how it all affected him.  The problem became less visible, but it was a ticking time bomb.  Between this, and Covid messing up his brain right after, the child came very close to permanent ramifications.  DH walked in on him trying to end things, his mental health was so bad.  There was a lot of stepping back from everything and spending a lot of time outdoors.  I never told anyone in person that it was that close.

One member of his new leadership is a parent who quietly observed last year.  He knows what went on publicly.  He is determined not to have it happen again.

One member of his new leadership is great with regulation, keeping kids on task, and quick enforcement of consequences.  He leads by encouragement and setting high, reachable, bars for behavior and performance.

DS is excelling. He is confident, happy, and content, though more introverted. His quiet leadership and effective communication is being noticed by other parents and he is receiving positive feedback from leaders.  He's highly focused on a team environment and helping others be their best, too.  His skills look amazing compared to last year's, and that was because last year there was no joy, no heart in what he was doing, and no connection to the group.

The sheer comparison between last year and this year makes me furious for him.  I have still not gotten past being mad about all of it.  How we were being gaslit about what was happening. How powerless and scared he must have felt. How alone we felt and overwhelmed.  How ineffective two adults were in interpreting basic safety.  How he missed a significant portion of what he should have received and how he received a significant amount of pain instead of it.  Every sweet moment this year is blighted by a memory from last and there's a certain amount of anxiety still lingering.

But, he's thriving and he's happy and he looks up to his leadership. So I figured that was worth updating.

[mommyoffive]

Wow, I am so sorry for everything that happened and how it affected him.  I am so glad for the positive update.  You and your dh did the right things as parents and I am so glad you did that and got him to this better place.  I am so happy for him.

[footballmom]

I’m so sorry for the rottenness he went through. And so very thankful your DH had perfect timing in checking on him last year.  What a roller coaster of emotions, but I’m so happy he is thriving and now he has the experience to know really really great things are sometimes on the other side of something really hard.  Something you wouldn’t choose to go through, shouldn’t have to go through, but things can get better ❤️

[scholastica]

Thank you for the update. I am so sorry for all that all of you went through. You did such a great job with all of this. Your son is so lucky to have you as a mom. When he looks back on this, he will see that so clearly and know how loved he is for the rest of his life. 

[HomeAgain]

13 hours ago, scholastica said:

Thank you for the update. I am so sorry for all that all of you went through. You did such a great job with all of this. Your son is so lucky to have you as a mom. When he looks back on this, he will see that so clearly and know how loved he is for the rest of his life. 

I hope one day he thinks so, and I appreciate the kind words.

It is just night and day how he is perceived this year.  There's a collective thought that he's alert, unselfish, hardworking, and excellent at what he does.  Last year he was considered an outcast, clumsy, abrasive, and deserved the abuse.

I still see last year's leadership.  The rule this year was for them to have no contact with my child, but they are still working with other groups.  It's part of why I have this bubbling anger (grief??) every week. I see them, and know exactly how different last year could have gone, and want them to understand exactly how much they hurt those around them.  And I worry about those kids, too.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

As a mom of a young man who experienced something similar, I get it. @HomeAgain - it's been a few years for us but I am still raw about how DS feels about himself and how drastic his actions were. I no longer see the man who pushed DS to the edge and have no idea where he is or if he is still working with young men. I have no idea what I would do if I ran into him. I know what I would want to do but I'm more bark than bite.

Sending you so many gentle hugs

[wintermom]

12 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

I hope one day he thinks so, and I appreciate the kind words.

It is just night and day how he is perceived this year.  There's a collective thought that he's alert, unselfish, hardworking, and excellent at what he does.  Last year he was considered an outcast, clumsy, abrasive, and deserved the abuse.

I still see last year's leadership.  The rule this year was for them to have no contact with my child, but they are still working with other groups.  It's part of why I have this bubbling anger (grief??) every week. I see them, and know exactly how different last year could have gone, and want them to understand exactly how much they hurt those around them.  And I worry about those kids, too.

Thank you for the update. I'm so sorry your ds went through this, and thrilled that he's in a really good place now. It's so scary thinking about the 'what could have been.' 

Regarding last year's leadership, you have led by example for parents and children there, and hopefully others will come forward with official complaints if and when required. Shining a light on ugly behaviour andcalling out the behaviour publicly are both very good things you've done, with the very best being you got your ds out of there and into a much better situation for him. Great job!

[HomeAgain]

One last little update here.

Nearly two years later, we have our kid back.  He was scheduled to have the same leaders this school year and we pulled the plug as soon as we found out. We moved him out of the program entirely and into one that takes kids from all different schools.  The work he put in last year was great, but even at the end of the year one of the leaders told us he was worried about him a bit because of how introverted ds was still.  Calm, confident, but held himself apart.  We got echos of that from his leader this year back in September and told him, well, that might be all you get from this kid.  He doesn't relax anymore.  But we didn't know then exactly how fortuitous the move was.  DS found his family: 13 wonderful children who celebrate each others' strengths and help each other where they're weak. They don't separate themselves into cliques (none of them go to the same schools or have private friendships outside) and have one large group chat online to keep up with each other. They immediately welcomed ds in even though most of them had been working together for years and had no idea if he could keep up or be an asset. As a result, DS is now completely out of his shell.  It's not unusual to see him laughing and joking around while working.  His last panic attack was almost a year ago now. Most of his anxious tics have gone away. His leader sent me an email last night just full of joy at how much he has opened up and what a great kid he was. 

It has extended beyond activities.  I have my kid back at home being silly and fun. He is thriving in school and trying.  He's just happy, even when he's being a git like 13yos are. He's doing things and being interested in life.

We left behind friends at the old program.  One has quit entirely from bullying and being left out. One is trying to figure out how to make a formal complaint against the same adult leaders - both for their action/inaction and for one using his position at the school to find confidential information about the kid and use it there against him. One hasn't officially quit, but doesn't bother going much anymore. One is just having a miserable year and is trying to stick it out. One of the kids who terrorized ds is now known for having behavior issues, but nothing is done. I am so glad we didn't stay and try to tough it out.  It doesn't look like anything has changed for the better. Everyone wants to know how it is "on the other side".  (It's good. It's so good.)

So there we go.  Last year helped him develop his self worth and confidence in himself again.  I am forever grateful to the leaders who made that a priority skill for the group as a whole.  They had no idea what ds's background was or why we were so protective, but they kept working with him and built him back up. This year he is able to let himself make mistakes and be fun, knowing he will still be accepted and is likeable.  The kids all age out within the next year or so and I'll be sad to see this end for him, but man, what a way to finish! And I'm frustrated that the other group didn't learn their lesson. We may have walked others through the steps on filing a complaint at a national level.  Maybe.  And how to get attention quickly given that it's repeated offense.

[Bambam]

What an excellent and heart warming update! I'm so glad things worked out so well and he has found a safe, happy, encouraging place to be. 

[WildflowerMom]

I’m so glad your boy is doing so well!! 

[*****]

This is the best news ever, thanks for updating!  As an educator who has worked in both public and private schools, homeschooled my own, etc.  I would be interested to hear what kind of placement your son is in.  I am so happy for your son and family!