Duggar found GUILTY

[Tanaqui]

That's a relief.

[MercyA]

@Faith-manor, glad you made it to the hotel safely! Thanks for all your hard work keeping us updated throughout the trial. Rest well. 

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I had quite the white knuckle drive today, and just got into the hotel and tuned in. Soooo relieved to see this. I am hoping Corraleno is right about the sentencing. At least at 14, Maddyson would be beyond the age he seems to be attracted to, and that is such a long time, Anna might just decide to extricate herself from JimBob.

Here's hoping this utterly tanks JB's chances of being elected!

Nap time, I left at 5 am, was pretty on edge when I made it. I should try to stay awake, but my body is just spent. I am going to do an hour with an alarm, and then see if I can get up and do some yoga in the room.

Glad you got there safely! Extra sleep might be more important than the yoga today!

[Corraleno]

Reactions from Amy Duggar King and Bobye Holt:

 

 

[AnotherNewName]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I'm confused why they only charged him with a single count each of receiving and possessing — especially if he can only be sentenced on one of those counts and not both. I looked up the details of the charges against the pedophile state trooper (Joseph Hutchens) that Jim Bob originally took Josh to, and he was charged with 8 counts of possession for having hundreds of photos downloaded over several days. He took a plea deal and was sentenced to 5 years on one count plus an additional 5 years suspended on each of the other counts.  He only served 3 years of the 5 year sentence, but less than two years after he was released he was arrested again, charged with 4 counts, and was sentenced to 56 years. Since Josh also downloaded multiple files and videos on separate days, I don't understand why there weren't multiple charges for possession, similar to Hutchens' case?

+1 

From the start I wondered why he was only charged with 1 count.  I know in other cases the charge was for each image/transmission.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

One thing that really stood out to me about this trial is the incredible number of man-hours that went into this investigation and prosecution just to get a conviction on one count of possession.

Maybe they have other counts they were prepared to hit with if he was able to get out on bail or a Writ of Habeas Corpus, or whatever. Something like that happened locally; hours after the attorney was granted a Writ of Habeas Corpus, LE came and picked his ass right back up and he was charged with something like 12 more counts. I asked my boss if that is a tactic the  prosecution might use - keep some of the evidence back for additional charges, if the first charges were serious enough to get them locked up to begin with. I don’t think it’s a tactic they would announce, but it’s pretty slick if they do use such a method. 

[livetoread]

I hope the longer minimum is correct because I'm seeing estimates all over the place from five to twenty. If they are only sentencing on one count, that could mean a pretty short time, especially since it's his "first" offense. I'll be disappointed with anything under ten years.

[Excelsior! Academy]

.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Excelsior! Academy

[Tanaqui]

Yo, prison rape is not a joke or something to "wish" or "hope for". Even prisoners have rights, even vile criminals have rights, including the right to basic human dignity and a safe environment. Yes, even if they denied that to their victims. Blood doesn't wash away blood, and violence doesn't cure violence.

[MercyA]

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I do feel a little bit of pity for Josh. I'm not sorry that he was convicted and not sorry that he is going to jail. Just sorry that he ruined his life and badly damaged and hurt other people for this awful, evil thing. 

The research I've seen seems to show that pedophilia is often related to differences in brain structure and that those differences are present before birth.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/08/what-can-be-done-about-pedophilia/279024/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5534964/

The environment in which he was raised surely did not help, and he did not get proper treatment when he actually confessed to his behaviors when he was young.

Don't misunderstand me. He is 100% responsible for his behavior. But I can still have pity on him as a fellow human being. I believe someone testified in the trial that one downloaded video was 33 minutes long and only something like 28 seconds of it was watched before it was deleted. Was he disgusted with himself? Was he regretting his choice to download it in the first place? Maybe. Only he knows that, and he is paying the price now.

I am very glad that he won't be able to hurt anyone else and hope that he comes to true repentance.

Edited December 9, 2021 by MercyA

[Katy]

I’ve had YouTube playing most of the day. Emily Baker was guessing the sentence would be between 8-10 years, possibly up to 18, but she thought that was unlikely.  KJ had an attorney on yesterday who was saying it was a minimum of 20, possibly more.  Also the judge at the bond hearing said minimum of 20 due to the age of the victims and the nature of the specific videos being worse, but she’s a new judge. Emily’s prosecuted cases like this before, but I didn’t listen to the KJ discussion enough to know if that attorney had prosecuted the sane kinds of cases, or if she was local or not.

[AbcdeDooDah]

Derick Dillard statement

https://www.dillardfamily.com/2021/12/dillard-family-statement-on-josh-duggar-verdict-today/

  “We have been lied to so much that we wanted to hear the evidence for ourselves in court.  After seeing all the evidence as it was presented, we believe that the jury reached a just verdict today, consistent with the truth beyond a reasonable doubt.”

Edited December 9, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Katy]

Also I’m under the impression from reading about Jared the Subway guy that pedophiles in Federal prison aren’t ever in general population.  They have different prisons or at least different sections of prisons. 

[Corraleno]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Maybe they have other counts they were prepared to hit with if he was able to get out on bail or a Writ of Habeas Corpus, or whatever. Something like that happened locally; hours after the attorney was granted a Writ of Habeas Corpus, LE came and picked his ass right back up and he was charged with something like 12 more counts. I asked my boss if that is a tactic the  prosecution might use - keep some of the evidence back for additional charges, if the first charges were serious enough to get them locked up to begin with. I don’t think it’s a tactic they would announce, but it’s pretty slick if they do use such a method. 

But in Josh's case, the feds have already used all the evidence they had against him in this trial — there's no information suggesting there were additional images on the computer that the prosecution kept secret, and I don't believe they can go back and file new charges for images that were used as evidence in a previous trial.

Hutchens pleaded guilty to 8 separate counts of possession, in return for getting the minimum sentence on each of those counts and having 7 of the 8 suspended. Why not charge Josh with the maximum number of counts, to make a plea deal (like Hutchens got) more appealing, and then if they end up having to go to trial they can let the jury decide which counts have enough evidence for conviction. It just seems like charging him with a single count, when he had dozens of images and videos downloaded on several different days, gave him a benefit he didn't deserve and imposed unnecessary limits on the sentence the judge can hand down.  

[MercyA]

3 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Derick Dillard statement

https://www.dillardfamily.com/2021/12/dillard-family-statement-on-josh-duggar-verdict-today/

I'm having trouble getting this to load--I get an error message. Probably too much traffic. Anyone willing to paste his statement here?

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I'm having trouble getting this to load--I get an error message. Probably too much traffic. Anyone willing to paste his statement here?

“Today was difficult for our family.  Our hearts go out to the victims of child abuse or any kind of exploitation.  We are thankful for the hard work of law enforcement, including investigators, forensic analysts, prosecutors, and all others involved who save kids and hold accountable those responsible for their abuse. 

Nobody is above the law.  It applies equally to everybody, no matter your wealth, status, associations, gender, race, or any other factor.  Today, the people of the Western District of Arkansas made that clear in their verdict.  As a Christian, we believe we are all equal at the foot of the cross, and, likewise, we are all equal under the law.  Jesus warned his disciples, “…[b]eware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.  Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.  Therefore, whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.” (Luke 12:1-3).   

Moreover, “[h]e who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.” (Proverbs 17:15).  We have been lied to so much that we wanted to hear the evidence for ourselves in court.  After seeing all the evidence as it was presented, we believe that the jury reached a just verdict today, consistent with the truth beyond a reasonable doubt.”

Josh’s actions have rippled far beyond the epicenter of the offense itself.  Children have scars, but his family is also suffering the fallout of his actions.  Our hearts are sensitive to the pains Josh’s wife, Anna, and their seven children have already endured and will continue to process in the future.  This trial has felt more like a funeral than anything else.  Josh’s family has a long road ahead.  We stand with them, we are praying for them, and we will seek to support them however we can during this dark time.         

[Corraleno]

Statement from JB & M on their blog page:

"This entire ordeal has been very grievous. Today, God’s grace, through the love and prayers of so many, has sustained us. Our hearts and prayers are with anyone who has ever been harmed through CSAM. In the days ahead, we will do all we can to surround our daughter-in-law Anna and their children with love and support. As parents, we will never stop praying for Joshua, and loving him, as we do all of our children. In each of life’s circumstances, we place our trust in God. He is our source of strength and refuge. Thank you for your prayers."

More from Amy Duggar King:

"May the daughters who were abused feel validated. You are truly beautiful and worthy of love. May there be intense counseling / healing. May there be wisdom for all those involved on how to move forward. Thank you Jesus. Justice has been served."

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

But in Josh's case, the feds have already used all the evidence they had against him in this trial — there's no information suggesting there were additional images on the computer that the prosecution kept secret, and I don't believe they can go back and file new charges for images that were used as evidence in a previous trial.

Yes but isn’t it true that they had no way of knowing, when the charges were filed, what posture the case would take, isn’t that right? So, *when* he was charged they didn’t know if he would arrive at a plea or go to trial or what. Then, once trial begins, yes it is true they can’t levy new charges. 
 

I mean, I don’t actually know. I just thought it was one possibility based on a similar case here and how that went down. 
 

I can see how it could be argued that - as repugnant as CSA materials are - his usage of them, as far as we now know - seems pretty minimal. (I’m not excusing it or saying it’s not that bad; don’t misunderstand….) I for one think it’s an interesting fact that out of a million images on his devices, the illegal stuff made up a tiny, minuscule portion that covered like five days. And as far as we know, not IRL stuff. (The local case I mentioned also had a solicitation online for someone to *do things* to the perp’s own kids.) The Hutchinson case had some IRL part to it too, right? AFAWK, there isn’t an IRL part in JD’s case. 
 

What I’m saying is, for the judges and prosecutors and such, while I’m sure they are glad he’s convicted, it is likely not (at all) the worst case they’ve heard of in either scope or extent of harm done. Do *I personally* want them to lock him up and throw away the key? Yes, absolutely. But do I really and truly think he will, for instance, get forty years? No. His crime (AFAWK) is not that extensive actually. 
 

He’s partially just easy to hate because of the family he comes from. It’s like we collectively want to say, “See??? How’s the Wisdom Booklets looking for raising kids *now*?!” We all just want to see the proud cultish “Christians” fall. I think that has a lot to do with sentiment against JD; it even does for me personally. 

[Katy]

40 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes but isn’t it true that they had no way of knowing, when the charges were filed, what posture the case would take, isn’t that right? So, *when* he was charged they didn’t know if he would arrive at a plea or go to trial or what. Then, once trial begins, yes it is true they can’t levy new charges. 
 

I mean, I don’t actually know. I just thought it was one possibility based on a similar case here and how that went down. 
 

I can see how it could be argued that - as repugnant as CSA materials are - his usage of them, as far as we now know - seems pretty minimal. (I’m not excusing it or saying it’s not that bad; don’t misunderstand….) I for one think it’s an interesting fact that out of a million images on his devices, the illegal stuff made up a tiny, minuscule portion that covered like five days. And as far as we know, not IRL stuff. (The local case I mentioned also had a solicitation online for someone to *do things* to the perp’s own kids.) The Hutchinson case had some IRL part to it too, right? AFAWK, there isn’t an IRL part in JD’s case. 
 

What I’m saying is, for the judges and prosecutors and such, while I’m sure they are glad he’s convicted, it is likely not (at all) the worst case they’ve heard of in either scope or extent of harm done. Do *I personally* want them to lock him up and throw away the key? Yes, absolutely. But do I really and truly think he will, for instance, get forty years? No. His crime (AFAWK) is not that extensive actually. 
 

He’s partially just easy to hate because of the family he comes from. It’s like we collectively want to say, “See??? How’s the Wisdom Booklets looking for raising kids *now*?!” We all just want to see the proud cultish “Christians” fall. I think that has a lot to do with sentiment against JD; it even does for me personally. 

The hypocrisy is definitely a factor, but the larger one to me is the parents turning away while he molested his sisters for what we now know to be more than THREE years so they wouldn’t risk their fame and power.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I do feel a little bit of pity for Josh. I'm not sorry that he was convicted and not sorry that he is going to jail. Just sorry that he ruined his life and badly damaged and hurt other people for this awful, evil thing. 

The research I've seen seems to show that pedophilia is often related to differences in brain structure and that those differences are present before birth.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/08/what-can-be-done-about-pedophilia/279024/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5534964/

The environment in which he was raised surely did not help, and he did not get proper treatment when he actually confessed to his behaviors when he was young.

Don't misunderstand me. He is 100% responsible for his behavior. But I can still have pity on him as a fellow human being. I believe someone testified in the trial that one downloaded video was 33 minutes long and only something like 28 seconds of it was watched before it was deleted. Was he disgusted with himself? Was he regretting his choice to download it in the first place? Maybe. Only he knows that, and he is paying the price now.

I am very glad that he won't be able to hurt anyone else and hope that he comes to true repentance.

I can have pity for him. Doing something so horrible would be hard to live with. I would have even more pity for him if he had admitted to it.  
 

As to the bolded, I had not heard that…..to me that seems significant. 

[Annie G]

@MercyA I feel pity for Josh, though I am glad justice has prevailed. I have wondered if he was seeking help when he ‘confessed’ to Bobye Holt about the molestations. Like he knew it was wrong and wanted someone to hear him and stop him. Maybe that’s very naive of me, but there it is. I think he felt guilt and shame but nobody actually did anything to get him help.  Punishment (shaving his head and sending him away to do hard labor) isn’t therapy, and wasn’t going to fix it. And because nothing was done then, he just kept doing awful things. 
 

However, I am also mad that he did those things. Mad on behalf of his sisters, wife, and children.  And so so angry knowing those poor children in the CSAM were victimized by him.  I don’t want him to be attacked or raped in prison, but I do want him to serve his time in a way that makes him miserable. 

[Farrar]

They're going "surround" Anna with love, eh? Sigh. Anna and those kids have had enough of the cult's style of "love."

[AbcdeDooDah]

55 minutes ago, Annie G said:

@MercyA I feel pity for Josh, though I am glad justice has prevailed. I have wondered if he was seeking help when he ‘confessed’ to Bobye Holt about the molestations. Like he knew it was wrong and wanted someone to hear him and stop him. Maybe that’s very naive of me, but there it is. I think he felt guilt and shame but nobody actually did anything to get him help.  Punishment (shaving his head and sending him away to do hard labor) isn’t therapy, and wasn’t going to fix it. And because nothing was done then, he just kept doing awful things. 
 

However, I am also mad that he did those things. Mad on behalf of his sisters, wife, and children.  And so so angry knowing those poor children in the CSAM were victimized by him.  I don’t want him to be attacked or raped in prison, but I do want him to serve his time in a way that makes him miserable. 

Apparently he went to Bobye Holt a second time. I believe he was crying out for help. She tried to get it and was brushed off. Her FB post today seems to confirm that. 

https://www.facebook.com/jimandbobye.holtfamily

Edited December 10, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Statement from JB & M on their blog page:

"This entire ordeal has been very grievous. Today, God’s grace, through the love and prayers of so many, has sustained us. Our hearts and prayers are with anyone who has ever been harmed through CSAM. In the days ahead, we will do all we can to surround our daughter-in-law Anna and their children with love and support. As parents, we will never stop praying for Joshua, and loving him, as we do all of our children. In each of life’s circumstances, we place our trust in God. He is our source of strength and refuge. Thank you for your prayers."

 

anyone else have a reaction of "gag me with a spork"?

If she really valued her children -

she would have gotten him professional help when she first learned about this instead of putting her head in the sand. 

She would have gotten professional licensed psychological help for her daughters.

She wouldn't have pushed to get him married off to some unsuspecting woman, nor LIED to her about what he really did, and pushed them to have  many children  - re: potential new victims for Josh. - 

I wish JB & M could be charged with covering up the girls abuse.  The both make me sick.

[MercyA]

5 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Apparently he went to Bobye Holt a second time. I believe he was crying out for help. She tried to get it and was brushed off. Her FB post today seems to confirm that. 

https://www.facebook.com/jimandbobye.holtfamily

Would you mind copying it here for those of us who don't have Facebook accounts? It would be much appreciated! 

[Faith-manor]

I am just waiting for them to announce Josh's new prison ministry with a donate button. JB defines "grifter" and without the show and a lot of people probably not wanting to business with him nor vote for him, he has to formulate his next money move.

[AbcdeDooDah]

The only good thing I saw in the Duggar’s statement was referring to the abuse by its name CSAM.  It is more correct and doesn’t minimize like calling it CP does.

[AbcdeDooDah]

5 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Would you mind copying it here for those of us who don't have Facebook accounts? It would be much appreciated! 

The last hashtag!

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[MercyA]

43 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

The only good thing I saw in the Duggar’s statement was referring to the abuse by its name CSAM.  It is more correct and doesn’t minimize like calling it CP does.

QFT. I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't thought about the more correct term to use before this case and its discussion here.

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

QFT. I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't thought about the more correct term to use before this case and its discussion here.

Mercy, I didn’t know either until he was arrested. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[readinmom]

Does anyone know, or think it is a possibility that CPS could step in and prevent JB and Michelle from having contact with the children?  They covered up abuse, and definitely showed a pattern of child endangerment by not protecting their own children from Josh. 

 

[Murphy101]

10 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Thank you for posting! I'd been following closely until the last 24 hours - working like mad to get the old house ready to sell as showings started today. I was over there until 10pm and back at 6am and hadn't had a chance to check on things. 

I'm SO relieved, and I hope his kids and all his nieces and nephews are evaluated for abuse - hard to believe he wouldn't have been abusing them given his past abuse of his sisters and his current known interest CSA. Ugh. I hate the whole situation, but am relieved he is locked up. 

Worst thing is that at the time it came out - the abuse of his sisters - Jim Bob said he talked to his church about it and found out it was a really common thing. Which is terrifying - cause no, that is NOT common for most situations. If that cult has an issue with incest and sexual assault...ugh. 

 

9 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I mean, there’s a section devoted to this subject in the Pearl’s book. That says a lot. 🤢

This. Years ago when the first hint of him molesting his sisters came out I left an online moms of many group bc several women (not most but I won’t tolerate any) were saying that it’s perfectly normal for siblings to be curious about each other. Books like the Pearls and others were used to normalize abusive behavior to and between siblings and to pervert sex in many ways. One even admitted her brother did this kind of thing with her and he is a wonderful good man today and they have a great relationship and she would not worry at all about leaving her kids with him.

It’s normal for <6 year olds to be curious  in a what’s that? I don’t look like that! Or a hey that’s a fun spot they discovered on their own body kind of way. It is absolutely not normal for siblings to be sexual and predatory with each other.  Nope. Especially siblings of significant age gap. That’s Bull shirt. No teen boy needs to explore his preschool sister out of normal sexual development curiosity.  Hell no. 

[DawnM]

On 12/9/2021 at 2:01 PM, Corraleno said:

Immediately taken into custody. KNWA Reporter CC McCandless said he was led away in handcuffs with tears in his eyes, and told Anna "I love  you."

🤮

I love you so much that I contact prostitutes and want to have rough s*x with them, and I love you so much that I look at little babies being horrifically assaulted and tortured, and I love you so much that I need to fantasize about other women and touch my sisters.

Despicable. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by DawnM

[Murphy101]

nm husband told me. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Murphy101

[Frances]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

He’s partially just easy to hate because of the family he comes from. It’s like we collectively want to say, “See??? How’s the Wisdom Booklets looking for raising kids *now*?!” We all just want to see the proud cultish “Christians” fall. I think that has a lot to do with sentiment against JD; it even does for me personally. 

While I’m not sure I hate anyone, I admit I’m happy Josh’s true self got exposed after his hypocritical work for the Family Research Council. He was actively working to deny rights to others during his time there.Although I absolutely hate that any innocent person, including his own children, had to suffer for him to be put in his rightful place. It seems like people will never learn that no good ever comes from denying rights to others that you yourself enjoy, all the while claiming to be the “moral” ones. History just keeps repeating itself, only who is unclassified as unworthy changes.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Frances

[MercyA]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

anyone else have a reaction of "gag me with a spork"?

Nobody's perfect in how they state things, especially under tremendous stress. But I don't like that they led with "This entire ordeal has been very grievous. Today, God’s grace, through the love and prayers of so many, has sustained us."

I know this must be very hard as a parent. Hopefully they are opening their minds to how they might have done things differently and learning from this. I understand them still loving and praying for Josh. I'd still love my child, too. But don't lead with how hard this has been for YOU. 

[gardenmom5]

52 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Nobody's perfect in how they state things, especially under tremendous stress. But I don't like that they led with "This entire ordeal has been very grievous. Today, God’s grace, through the love and prayers of so many, has sustained us."

I know this must be very hard as a parent. Hopefully they are opening their minds to how they might have done things differently and learning from this. I understand them still loving and praying for Josh. I'd still love my child, too. But don't lead with how hard this has been for YOU. 

It still comes across as uncaring about his victims.  Like HER DAUGHTERS.

[Resilient]

TOTALLY different scenario but maybe the point can be taken. A number of years ago a (smaller) crime was committed against my family. My 9yo child was confused because we were hoping the perp would be caught even as we taught forgiveness in our home. This is how we explained it to the child:

We hope he is caught because it is likely that if s/he is not caught, s/he will continue In this path of hurting people.  More people will be hurt.  In addition, the further this person goes down this path, the less likely it ill that s/he will ever find a way to live a better life.  The sooner s/he is caught and brought into a system of justice, the more likely it is that s/he will have a chance to live a decent life.  

It's not about punishment; it's about a chance to repent, to change one's life.

In this situation, the opportunity to change was precluded by "protecting" people, and more people were hurt. 

The justice system is imperfect, but it is better than just letting things go.

[AbcdeDooDah]

I just can’t get over the fact that he documented his own crime. Taking selfies and texts about being late. WIthout those, the idea that it was someone else was more plausible. 😆

Edited December 10, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Catwoman]

57 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I just can’t get over the fact that he documented his own crime. Taking selfies and texts about being late. WIthout those, the idea that it was someone else was more plausible. 😆

I guess he was so busy covering his tracks so Anna wouldn't get suspicious, that it never dawned on him that she might not be his biggest worry.

Oh well. Too bad, so sad. 

He always struck me as being kind of arrogant, so it's not entirely surprising that he assumed he would never get into any real trouble for his perversions -- or at least nothing that JimBob couldn't help him weasel his way out of.

He must be in absolute shock tonight, realizing that he won't be going back home again for years.

I wonder how Anna is feeling tonight. Is she missing Josh, or is she incredibly relieved that she finally has her bed all to herself and secretly thrilled that he won't be coming home for a very long time? And is she praying that she's not pregnant again? I know I would be! 

I'm sure she will let the Duggars think she's missing Josh terribly (because they are her financial support right now, and will help her with all of those children,) but I wonder how she really feels about all of this. Could she be feeling at least a little bit free?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

wonder how Anna is feeling tonight. Is she missing Josh, or is she incredibly relieved that she finally has her bed all to herself and secretly thrilled that he won't be coming home for a very long time? And is she praying that she's not pregnant again? I know I would be! 

I'm sure she will let the Duggars think she's missing Josh terribly (because they are her financial support right now, and will help her with all of those children,) but I wonder how she really feels about all of this. Could she be feeling at least a little bit free?

I doubt it. I would guess she is, for one thing, in psychological shock. (I don’t mean the layperson use of “extremely surprised”; I mean the actual physiological state where she can’t process reality because it has diverged so severely from her expectations of normal.) The kind of psychological shock you go through when your child dies suddenly or you are diagnosed with a serious disease. 
 

If it were me, I would be wondering how I explain this to my kids, especially the youngest ones. And I would be under extreme duress about the future of my family. 
 

I would not bet .10 that she feels in any way free. Most likely she is repeatedly asking herself how this could ever befall *her*. Because remember, there is a belief in that cult, that calamities happen to those who deserve it. By diligent prayer and dutiful submission, you are supposed to magically get granted god’s favor and protection. By marrying someone raised in a “godly” manner, I expect she believed she was safe from having a spouse who would ever be in this situation. 
 

Finally, let’s not underestimate how agonizingly painful it is when someone you love embarrasses and humiliates you in this manner. My brother was charged with a crime ten or so years ago and even just at that level, it was horrible. It was embarrassing and most people meeting me now don’t even know I have a brother, because it’s embarrassing and it’s easier to just not mention him than to explain why (before a recent visit) I had not seen him in ten years. In Anna’s case, though, she can’t really go anywhere that people won’t know who she is and what they suffered. She can’t go anywhere that people won’t have some sort of glee that her husband was convicted of a hideous crime. I think picking oneself back up from that is hard, even for the strongest, most résiliant and self-reliant woman. 

[HomeAgain]

Do any of you read the updates on Duggar Family News: Life Isn't All Pickles And Hairspray (Facebook)?  There is a disturbing new bit on there that the kids are being told to follow the narrative that Josh is to be like "Apostle Paul" and is going to minister in prison, and if they deviate from that belief and support for him they will be cut off.

It explains the smiling mugshot of him just minutes after he left the courtroom.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

6 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Do any of you read the updates on Duggar Family News: Life Isn't All Pickles And Hairspray (Facebook)?  There is a disturbing new bit on there that the kids are being told to follow the narrative that Josh is to be like "Apostle Paul" and is going to minister in prison, and if they deviate from that belief and support for him they will be cut off.

It explains the smiling mugshot of him just minutes after he left the courtroom.

To be fair, Pickles has a long history of making things up and then quickly backtracking and deleting when called out on it. I’d take anything she says with a big grain of salt. 

[Ottakee]

25 minutes ago, Quill said:

I doubt it. I would guess she is, for one thing, in psychological shock. (I don’t mean the layperson use of “extremely surprised”; I mean the actual physiological state where she can’t process reality because it has diverged so severely from her expectations of normal.) The kind of psychological shock you go through when your child dies suddenly or you are diagnosed with a serious disease. 
 

If it were me, I would be wondering how I explain this to my kids, especially the youngest ones. And I would be under extreme duress about the future of my family. 
 

I would not bet .10 that she feels in any way free. Most likely she is repeatedly asking herself how this could ever befall *her*. Because remember, there is a belief in that cult, that calamities happen to those who deserve it. By diligent prayer and dutiful submission, you are supposed to magically get granted god’s favor and protection. By marrying someone raised in a “godly” manner, I expect she believed she was safe from having a spouse who would ever be in this situation. 
 

Finally, let’s not underestimate how agonizingly painful it is when someone you love embarrasses and humiliates you in this manner. My brother was charged with a crime ten or so years ago and even just at that level, it was horrible. It was embarrassing and most people meeting me now don’t even know I have a brother, because it’s embarrassing and it’s easier to just not mention him than to explain why (before a recent visit) I had not seen him in ten years. In Anna’s case, though, she can’t really go anywhere that people won’t know who she is and what they suffered. She can’t go anywhere that people won’t have some sort of glee that her husband was convicted of a hideous crime. I think picking oneself back up from that is hard, even for the strongest, most résiliant and self-reliant woman. 

So much this.   I remember the shock and shame.  I knew the charges were true when I was faced with them given who told me about them.  Bit so much shame on how could I have chosen a man who possessed and manufactured CSAM?  How much of my life had been a cover up for him, even when I had no idea I was helping cover things?

It is going to be extra hard for Anna as the media will stalk her every move, maybe for years.    I seriously considered moving 2 hours away just to get away from our small town media and gossip.   She doesn't have that luxury....and neither do her kids.  I remember ducking down different aisles at the grocery store just to avoid an acquaintance in the ketchup aisle.  You know you are the talk of the town...and she is now the talk of the nation.

Also, there might be some things she is doing behind the scenes that you will never see but are part of the escape or recovery plan.   There was so much behind the scenes that I did that only a very few close people ever knew about.

I say we give her some time....that first year is horrible....and I had a job, paid for vehicle, paid for house, and my kids were over 18.  She has none of that.

Right now my blog is down and needs repair and I haven't have the mental energy to try to figure it out but if you want to read my blog posts, you can go to FB and look at "Our Story Goes On" page.  Scroll way down and start with the first post and go up from there.  Some posts are hopeful, others pretty raw, but all are real life after your husband is arrested for CSAM.

[Guest]

Thank you, @Ottakee, for saying that. I was thinking partially of you when I typed that. 

[ktgrok]

14 hours ago, MercyA said:

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I do feel a little bit of pity for Josh. I'm not sorry that he was convicted and not sorry that he is going to jail. Just sorry that he ruined his life and badly damaged and hurt other people for this awful, evil thing. 

The research I've seen seems to show that pedophilia is often related to differences in brain structure and that those differences are present before birth.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/08/what-can-be-done-about-pedophilia/279024/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5534964/

The environment in which he was raised surely did not help, and he did not get proper treatment when he actually confessed to his behaviors when he was young.

Don't misunderstand me. He is 100% responsible for his behavior. But I can still have pity on him as a fellow human being. I believe someone testified in the trial that one downloaded video was 33 minutes long and only something like 28 seconds of it was watched before it was deleted. Was he disgusted with himself? Was he regretting his choice to download it in the first place? Maybe. Only he knows that, and he is paying the price now.

I am very glad that he won't be able to hurt anyone else and hope that he comes to true repentance.

I feel pity for him too! I can be angry with him, and also just tortured by how let down he was by the people that should have handled this when he was young. Whatever innate issues he had could only have been made worse by being told since he was a child that boys can't change girl diapers because they might find it arousing! I mean, if you take that idea which was shared with him all his life until it was internalized, add in that he entered puberty with no one around to fantasize about other than his own sisters (no homeschool playdates and leaving the house was such a huge undertaking they didn't do it much from my understanding), and being told most women of the world were not good enough for a good Christian boy like him since they wear different clothing, etc etc...it's like "here is how to create an incestuous pedophile" in 5 easy steps or something. 

And then when it did happen he was punished, but never given actual therapy or help, and not given skills to deal with it as he matured. Just married off ASAP. 

He is still responsible for his actions as an adult, but I'm sorry he ended up like this. And feeling sorry for him is one more reason to be glad he is locked up and can't do more harm. 

14 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Derick Dillard statement

https://www.dillardfamily.com/2021/12/dillard-family-statement-on-josh-duggar-verdict-today/

  “We have been lied to so much that we wanted to hear the evidence for ourselves in court.  After seeing all the evidence as it was presented, we believe that the jury reached a just verdict today, consistent with the truth beyond a reasonable doubt.”

Pretty sure his quote about defending the wicked is a direct slam at Jim Bob, which pleases me more than it should probably. I really am relieved to see at least one sibling and spouse stating things clearly. It gives an example to the others that hey, you CAN stop lying and the world doesn't end. You don't HAVE to parrot whatever Jim Bob says. 

I know it was reported that Justin was crying after the verdict...I feel badly for all the siblings having to confront the truth - not only about their brother, but about how much their parents have lied to them. 

11 hours ago, Farrar said:

They're going "surround" Anna with love, eh? Sigh. Anna and those kids have had enough of the cult's style of "love."

I think that's pretty normal language, even outside the cult. I might say something similar. The Dillards are already persona non grata a the main family home and are not in the cult anymore. They send their son to public school, Jill has gone to an actual therapist for help processing things, they use birth control,  Derrick has a real education, etc. They will not try to convince Anna to stand behind Josh or minimize things like the rest of the family. 

9 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

 

This. Years ago when the first hint of him molesting his sisters came out I left an online moms of many group bc several women (not most but I won’t tolerate any) were saying that it’s perfectly normal for siblings to be curious about each other. Books like the Pearls and others were used to normalize abusive behavior to and between siblings and to pervert sex in many ways. One even admitted her brother did this kind of thing with her and he is a wonderful good man today and they have a great relationship and she would not worry at all about leaving her kids with him.

It’s normal for <6 year olds to be curious  in a what’s that? I don’t look like that! Or a hey that’s a fun spot they discovered on their own body kind of way. It is absolutely not normal for siblings to be sexual and predatory with each other.  Nope. Especially siblings of significant age gap. That’s Bull shirt. No teen boy needs to explore his preschool sister out of normal sexual development curiosity.  Hell no. 

Normal is yes, preschool or kindergarten kids playing doctor. I'll show you mine if you show me yours, etc. NOT a 12 year old feeling up a 5 yr old. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous and scary!

7 hours ago, Resilient said:

TOTALLY different scenario but maybe the point can be taken. A number of years ago a (smaller) crime was committed against my family. My 9yo child was confused because we were hoping the perp would be caught even as we taught forgiveness in our home. This is how we explained it to the child:

We hope he is caught because it is likely that if s/he is not caught, s/he will continue In this path of hurting people.  More people will be hurt.  In addition, the further this person goes down this path, the less likely it ill that s/he will ever find a way to live a better life.  The sooner s/he is caught and brought into a system of justice, the more likely it is that s/he will have a chance to live a decent life.  

It's not about punishment; it's about a chance to repent, to change one's life.

In this situation, the opportunity to change was precluded by "protecting" people, and more people were hurt. 

The justice system is imperfect, but it is better than just letting things go.

Yes, exactly. 

[Faith-manor]

9 hours ago, DawnM said:

🤮

I love you so much that I contact prostitutes and want to have rough s*x with them, and I love you so much that I look at light babies being horrifically assaulted and tortured, and I love you so much that I need to fantasize about other women and touch my sisters.

Despicable. 

Q.F.T.

He is a monster. He may have been helped onto this path by the cult he was raised in for sure, but ultimately, he made these choices and is in fact, a monster. It is actually quite gross that he said "I love you" to her. More gaslighting, more putting the acres to her. 

 

[Faith-manor]

I won't say what was in the video. I have read the physical descriptions of it. It made me sick; it is beyond words. There can be no "pity" for Joshua James Duggar. He downloaded those things and according to prosecution watched them over and over again. They could tell from his computer how many times they were viewed. One child was only 3 months old.

A monster is being put away, and I am beyond grateful for this. It is actually sad to me that he will have an opportunity to get out and do it again. I truly feel that consumers of CSAM should go to prison for the rest of their natural lives. It might be the only arena in which I am supportive of the death penalty, and that is for the creators of it.

This began with a 12 year old who might have been able to be reached, and helped off that path. It began with sisters assaulted multiple times over three years, and evil, disgusting, criminal parents who looked the other way, and then later went on national t.v. and said it wasn't a big deal and a lot of people at church told them boys sexually assaulting their sister is normal, that many of them have had this "problem". 

JB and Michelle need to go to jail. CPS and police need to investigate everyone in that church. And it should be noted that the infamous trooper who ended up being sentenced to 56 years for CSAM had confessed to the elders (JB being one of them) in order to get his " forgive and forget " from the cult, and then went on to be allowed to TEACH in the church before he got caught the second time around on so many counts that he isn't likely coming out of that prison alive. JB and company did this.

Burn it down. IBLP/ATI/Gothard, the poster families of Bates, Kellers, and Duggars, they are all criminal, immoral dumpster fires. And the few that stood up to be counted, like the Holts, were ostracized for daring to stand up for what is right. The church was mad at them for outing Josh as "the sin in the camp", for telling JB that he needed to take his son to the police and get help for his daughters.

And remember, CPS tried to interview the Duggar kids after the allegations came out, and they refused to allow it. No charges were brought against them, no court orders mandating it. (Looking at you Arkansas local authorities for the most profound lack of DOING YOUR JOB, ever! Good grief, you had public professions of the crimes and the cover up!!!!!) 

Maybe, had the whole thing been stopped when Josh was 12, I would have felt something along the lines of pity or sympathy for him. He was a boy after all. But, he is 33 and every step of the way has demonstrated a sociopathic, malignant narcissism and sinister need to continually ramp up his addiction, creating a stream of victims, and accepting zero responsibility, smiling like a happy creep for his mug shots each time. Nope. Emotional energy saved for the next step. Seeing JimBob taken down, and hopefully, a mass exit by many families from IBLP. I hope Derrick and Jill will lead the way with a book. She doesn't owe anyone her private perspective and pain, but IF she chooses it, if she feels strong enough, it could really help expose the whole thing to wide audience.

[ktgrok]

I should clarify - I have pity for the little boy who was warped and enabled and eventually grew into the monster he is now. I do not have sympathy for who he is now - perhaps for some shred of humanity buried deeply inside. I think he has committed horrible acts of abuse, including the spiritual and likely sexual abuse of his wife, the sexual abuse of his sisters, and who knows how many others. I think he is a sadistic narcissist who is not safe to be in normal society ever again. If I saw him, I'd likely kick him where it hurts (not saying violence is okay, just saying I'd likely do it). 

 

 

[ktgrok]

Do you think that Jill and Derrick signed NDAs at some point?