newest covid propaganda is....

[ktgrok]

The Delta variant doesn't exist - it's just what they are calling vaccine injuries. 

I freaking give up. 

We locally have hospitals turning away people, and yet when I ran in - KF94 mask tightly in place- to the laundromat to grab my laundry from the dryer (I waited in the car for the 30 minutes it took to dry) I counted 20 people there including about half a dozen kids of various ages and 2 workers. ONLY the workers had masks on. 

[rebcoola]

Goodness I haven't heard this one yet but I'm sure I will soon. 

[ktgrok]

Just now, rebcoola said:

Goodness I haven't heard this one yet but I'm sure I will soon. 

Multiple spouting it, with memes at the ready, on facebook today. (friends of friends...I need to unfriend that person so I don't see this crap. I never liked her anyway - her kid was super aggressive and she never tried to stop him..ugh)

I mean, if there is a meme, it must be true, right? 

[MercyA]

You laugh or you cry. Or both. 

[Farrar]

I want every business and every school and every hospital system and every club and restaurant and theater to start doing vaccine passports. This won't get better until we force it. I'm so sick of these Covidiots ruining everything for the rest of us. 

[ktgrok]

13 minutes ago, MercyA said:

You laugh or you cry. Or both. 

Seriously. 

I mean, there is that old saying, you can't fix stupid. I feel like that is where we are at. 

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I want every business and every school and every hospital system and every club and restaurant and theater to start doing vaccine passports. This won't get better until we force it. I'm so sick of these Covidiots ruining everything for the rest of us. 

My governor made that illegal in my state. 

I live on a hell mouth. 

[mommyoffive]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I want every business and every school and every hospital system and every club and restaurant and theater to start doing vaccine passports. This won't get better until we force it. I'm so sick of these Covidiots ruining everything for the rest of us. 

I want that too!!!  Mandate away.  This isn't fair to the people who are doing the right thing.

[Frances]

19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My governor made that illegal in my state. 

I live on a hell mouth. 

In my state, the main restriction is that healthcare systems can’t require workers to be vaccinated. Since it’s federal, the VA is the only one in the state that can require the covid vaccine.

[busymama7]

Hold on.  You really want to open up the government being able to inject citizens without their permission?  Holy heck.  I have been totally behind the covid restrictions(masks, distancing), support the vaccine and have thought the deniers were crazy.  But no. Just no.  This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

[melmichigan]

Beginning tomorrow, Marble Bar in Detroit requires patrons to show a vaccination card or a negative test results that includes the name matching the legal ID.  

[bookbard]

That explains the person who said to me there's no covid, but the vaccination causes covid. And they won't mask (illegal here without a dr cert, but goes to a dodgy dr who would sign anything). 

[prairiewindmomma]

14 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

Hold on.  You really want to open up the government being able to inject citizens without their permission?  Holy heck.  I have been totally behind the covid restrictions(masks, distancing), support the vaccine and have thought the deniers were crazy.  But no. Just no.  This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

You do realize that, historically, polio and measles were mandated vaccines. 
 

Jacobson v. Massachusetts—a US Supreme Court case upheld a mandate on smallpox vaccine

school vaccine requirements were upheld in 1922 in another Supreme Court case

We have a long, long history of having mandates for public health. Because of them we have been able to eradicate a number of diseases that used to kill many, many people.

 

[bibiche]

18 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

I’ll remember that next time I want to have an abortion. 🙄

[bluemongoose]

I think the gov should keep mask mandates in place (in all states frankly) for the most basic absolute needs. So things like schools, public transportation, medical offices, and grocery stores. 

I absolutely support private businesses requiring vaccination proof or neg tests. I do not think it should be mandated by the government though. People can choose to show proof, get tested, or decide they dont want to be customers in that location. Same for the businesses requiring it of employees.

Yes it will still suck how many people are not vaccinating. It is really frustrating, but I do not think that the government should force people. I wish people were just less selfish and thought of others more.  

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Multiple spouting it, with memes at the ready, on facebook today. (friends of friends...I need to unfriend that person so I don't see this crap. I never liked her anyway - her kid was super aggressive and she never tried to stop him..ugh)

I mean, if there is a meme, it must be true, right? 

Which I mean … explains why we have it in Australia where there’s next to no vaccine available!

[Murphy101]

The stupid is way too strong in way too many people.

Some keep telling me they won’t get the vax bc they get the flu every time they get the flu shot so they don’t do the flu shot anymore. And I’m like… so much not right about that claim but shunting that aside bc covid is not the flu?  No. Never ever going to get the covid vax. And of course never ever going to mask and stay home either. Sooo. Russian roulette health care it is I guess?

🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️🧐

[happi duck]

WTAF?!?!?

[Tap]

The VA announced this week, it Is requiring vaccines unless the person has a religious or medical exemption. The medical exemption is very, very, very limited, so that leaves religious exemptions for people who don't want to be vaccinated. For those who are able to get the exemption, they will have to stay masked and get tested 1-2x per week. Not all employees are in the list required to get vaccinated just title 38 employees. It is predominately nurses/doctors etc, that provide prolonged patient care. (ie More than a receptionist )

 

I expect there to be a whole lotta converts this week, to faiths that discourage vaccination. I am sure there will be more than one new religion by the end of the year, based solely on vaccination theology. Vaccination cards aren't enough for this mandate, the vaccination needs to be verifiable.

[melmichigan]

10 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

You do realize that, historically, polio and measles were mandated vaccines. 
 

Jacobson v. Massachusetts—a US Supreme Court case upheld a mandate on smallpox vaccine

school vaccine requirements were upheld in 1922 in another Supreme Court case

We have a long, long history of having mandates for public health. Because of them we have been able to eradicate a number of diseases that used to kill many, many people.

 

Here is a comprehensive list of the rulings: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/guides-pubs/downloads/vacc_mandates_chptr13.pdf

Edited July 30, 2021 by melmichigan

[melmichigan]

5 minutes ago, Tap said:

I expect there to be a whole lotta converts this week, to faiths that discourage vaccination. I am sure there will be more than one new religion by the end of the year, based solely on vaccination theology. Vaccination cards aren't enough for this mandate, the vaccination needs to be verifiable.

Some hospitals here require that people have claimed their religious exemption status at the time of employment. 🤷‍♀️

Edited July 30, 2021 by melmichigan

[JennyD]

Those pediatric vaccines cannot get here soon enough.

 

[TCB]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Multiple spouting it, with memes at the ready, on facebook today. (friends of friends...I need to unfriend that person so I don't see this crap. I never liked her anyway - her kid was super aggressive and she never tried to stop him..ugh)

I mean, if there is a meme, it must be true, right? 

I wonder how they explain the fact that so many unvaccinated people are suffering from the delta variant then. That ones even more bizarre than usual.

[KSera]

34 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

Hold on.  You really want to open up the government being able to inject citizens without their permission?  Holy heck.  I have been totally behind the covid restrictions(masks, distancing), support the vaccine and have thought the deniers were crazy.  But no. Just no.  This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

I'm not seeing anyone wanting the government to go around injecting people against their will. People want vaccines (or legitimate exemptions) required to participate in things, so that people who are participating in the solution to this aren't having their lives completely upended by those who refuse to. Had that happened as soon as we had vaccines, I don't believe we would be here at all. Delta wouldn't have found enough hosts to become dominant, R0 would have dramatically dropped, and we wouldn't be trying to figure out what is safe for our kids to do this fall while hospitals around the country once again fill up and thousands and thousands of Americans die an easily preventable death each month. It sucks.

[catz]

Just now, TCB said:

I wonder how they explain the fact that so many unvaccinated people are suffering from the delta variant then. That ones even more bizarre than usual.

Right?  To believe this you also need to simultaneously believe thousands of people are involved in falsifying data.  

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Right?  To believe this you also need to simultaneously believe thousands of people are involved in falsifying data.  

Well since lots of them believe that about the election, it’s not much of a stretch sadly.

[AbcdeDooDah]

7 minutes ago, KSera said:

I'm not seeing anyone wanting the government to go around injecting people against their will. People want vaccines (or legitimate exemptions) required to participate in things, so that people who are participating in the solution to this aren't having their lives completely upended by those who refuse to. Had that happened as soon as we had vaccines, I don't believe we would be here at all. Delta wouldn't have found enough hosts to become dominant, R0 would have dramatically dropped, and we wouldn't be trying to figure out what is safe for our kids to do this fall while hospitals around the country once again fill up and thousands and thousands of Americans die an easily preventable death each month. It sucks.

Delta was identified in December, 2020. Vaccines were not open to the general public until April 2021

[bluemongoose]

2 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Delta was identified in December, 2020. Vaccines were not open to the general public until April 2021

And in some states, not even then. We had to wait until May here for the general public to get vaccinated. It pretty much opened up for the 16-65 group all at once, and then a couple weeks later it was opened for the 12-15 group. 

[bibiche]

4 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Delta was identified in December, 2020. Vaccines were not open to the general public until April 2021

It didn’t arrive in the US until March, and on June 19th accounted for just over 30% of cases. If people had taken advantage of the opportunity to be vaccinated, things would be different. But certain Americans are profoundly selfish. 

[KSera]

Just now, AbcdeDooDah said:

Delta was identified in December, 2020. Vaccines were not open to the general public until April 2021

They were open to much of the public months before that (I was later than most people here, and my turn came up in April), but that doesn't matter, because Delta didn't arrive on our shores until later in Spring, and didn't start growing rapidly until beginning of Summer. We had enough time to stop this. Even with Delta here and the vaccine being less effective than it used to be at preventing transmission, everyone being vaccinated would be very likely to drop R0 below 1 and we would have avoided this wave. Wouldn't that be a good outcome? I don't understand people not wanting the vaccine to be highly effective. It's like the people who earlier in the pandemic clearly wanted the evidence to show that masks weren't effective. I asked repeatedly if they would be glad to find out they actually were very effective, and not a single anti-mask person would answer that question. It seems the same with the vaccine now.

[Frances]

6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Delta was identified in December, 2020. Vaccines were not open to the general public until April 2021

But when did it become dominant? And what’s the next variant going to be like?

[AbcdeDooDah]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

They were open to much of the public months before that (I was later than most people here, and my turn came up in April), but that doesn't matter, because Delta didn't arrive on our shores until later in Spring, and didn't start growing rapidly until beginning of Summer. We had enough time to stop this. Even with Delta here and the vaccine being less effective than it used to be at preventing transmission, everyone being vaccinated would be very likely to drop R0 below 1 and we would have avoided this wave. Wouldn't that be a good outcome? I don't understand people not wanting the vaccine to be highly effective. It's like the people who earlier in the pandemic clearly wanted the evidence to show that masks weren't effective. I asked repeatedly if they would be glad to find out they actually were very effective, and not a single anti-mask person would answer that question. It seems the same with the vaccine now.

It is highly effective at mitigating symptoms and hospitalizations, not stopping infection or spread its looking like more and more. That’s why vaccine passports seem useless.

Edited July 30, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[SoCal_Bear]

Lambda variant is already here. This is the one from South America. 

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/565487-what-you-should-know-about-the-lambda

[KSera]

1 minute ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

It is highly effective at mitigating symptoms and hospitalizations, not stopping infection or spread its looking like more and more. That’s why vaccine passports seem useless.

Well there’s two things. It was exceedingly effective at preventing transmission with previous variants. That has changed with Delta, but it’s still at this point appears to prevent transmission more often than not, just not at the ultra high-level it did against the original variance. But that’s why it’s frustrating when people are now saying, “well look it’s not even preventing transmission anymore” when those people didn’t want to be vaccinated even when it was preventing transmission, so it’s not like they can say that’s their excuse.

[prairiewindmomma]

According to a study done by the Economist and YouGov, 20% of Americans believe the vaccine contains a microchip. 

I have linked the study below. I don’t know how credible it is, but I am seeing the study reported on by credible media sources.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf

I am still shocked by the numbers….

[AbcdeDooDah]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

Well there’s two things. It was exceedingly effective at preventing transmission with previous variants. That has changed with Delta, but it’s still at this point appears to prevent transmission more often than not, just not at the ultra high-level it did against the original variance. But that’s why it’s frustrating when people are now saying, “well look it’s not even preventing transmission anymore” when those people didn’t want to be vaccinated even when it was preventing transmission, so it’s not like they can say that’s their excuse.

Right, but if Delta is overwhelmingly prevalent, what good is stadium filled with only vaxed people? It’s false security and they are putting people’s lives at risk.

[mathnerd]

3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

According to a study done by the Economist and YouGov, 20% of Americans believe the vaccine contains a microchip. 

I have linked the study below. I don’t know how credible it is, but I am seeing the study reported on by credible media sources.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf

I am still shocked by the numbers….

I am wondering who it is that can speak to these 20% of microchip believers in order to explain to them that "science" is not a dirty word and that Covid vaccines don't contain a microchip?

If the prospect of being intubated or having strong pharmaceutical drugs pumped into them in an ICU is an acceptable outcome to them, why is the vaccine that has been rolled out to millions by now not OK? The logic escapes me ...

[bibiche]

7 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

According to a study done by the Economist and YouGov, 20% of Americans believe the vaccine contains a microchip. 

I have linked the study below. I don’t know how credible it is, but I am seeing the study reported on by credible media sources.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf

I am still shocked by the numbers….

Americans are so f*ing stupid. 

[bluemongoose]

44 minutes ago, Tap said:

Vaccination cards aren't enough for this mandate, the vaccination needs to be verifiable.

I agree with this statement 100%!

[bluemongoose]

11 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

According to a study done by the Economist and YouGov, 20% of Americans believe the vaccine contains a microchip. 

I have linked the study below. I don’t know how credible it is, but I am seeing the study reported on by credible media sources.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf

I am still shocked by the numbers….

we really need a face palm response 🤦‍♀️ I just cant like this!

[KSera]

6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Right, but if Delta is overwhelmingly prevalent, what good is stadium filled with only vaxed people? It’s false security and they are putting people’s lives at risk.

Well, I don't know why anyone would want to be in a stadium filled with people right now anyway, personally, but if it was filled with only vaxed people, the number of infections would be much smaller than the number if it was filled with unvaxed people. Think of measles vaccine. If exposed to measles, a small number of vaccinated people will still get measles and be able to transmit it, while a huge number of those not vaccinated for measles will catch it and be able to transmit it. If nearly everyone is vaccinated, that reduced transmissions among the vaccinated is enough to have the outbreak dwindle. Reducing transmission matters a LOT on a population scale, even if it doesn't completely stop it. And of course, even bigger is that hospitalization and death is almost completely prevented. It's very worrisome how long that will hold true with the current level of transmission.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

Hold on.  You really want to open up the government being able to inject citizens without their permission?  Holy heck.  I have been totally behind the covid restrictions(masks, distancing), support the vaccine and have thought the deniers were crazy.  But no. Just no.  This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

Everyone is free to not get the vaccine. But every business needs to start banning these folks from entering, as should also be their right. This is becoming standard practice for some situations - healthcare workers in some hospital systems, college students on many campuses, going to clubs and shows in NY... The practice needs to widely expand. You don't want to vaccine, fine, but then you get the virtual school for your kids. And the virtual college classes. You get closed out of concerts and theater. Your choice affects others and you're not free to walk around spreading the virus.

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Well, I don't know why anyone would want to be in a stadium filled with people right now anyway, personally, but if it was filled with only vaxed people, the number of infections would be much smaller than the number if it was filled with unvaxed people. Think of measles vaccine. If exposed to measles, a small number of vaccinated people will still get measles and be able to transmit it, while a huge number of those not vaccinated for measles will catch it and be able to transmit it. If nearly everyone is vaccinated, that reduced transmissions among the vaccinated is enough to have the outbreak dwindle. Reducing transmission matters a LOT on a population scale, even if it doesn't completely stop it. And of course, even bigger is that hospitalization and death is almost completely prevented. It's very worrisome how long that will hold true with the current level of transmission.

Ok, “every hospital system and every club and restaurant and theater.” 

 

[Clarita]

13 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I am wondering who it is that can speak to these 20% of microchip believers in order to explain to them that "science" is not a dirty word and that Covid vaccines don't contain a microchip?

To one person we know we just explained that we don't actually have the technology to make microchips that small that can transmit. She actually seemed to believe it and was shocked at the explanation. 

[Farrar]

15 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Right, but if Delta is overwhelmingly prevalent, what good is stadium filled with only vaxed people? It’s false security and they are putting people’s lives at risk.

There's two elements to this though.

1. When the spread was lowest in the places with high vax rates, this would have been reasonably okay. As our vaccines adapt, it could become okay again, but only if the vaccine rates go up.

2. Which they won't do until people are getting closed out of places they'd like to go. So to me, that's the point. It's not a... I want to go to a club right now with Delta everywhere. It's... I want to one day eventually be able to go to a club (well, to the theater, anyway) and that's not happening until vaccine passports become a more widespread practice, thus making the stick to make people up the rates. I'm sick of this "oh, whatever" business about vaccinations. They work. They are not perfect. If everyone gets them, then even with Delta, we - like the UK - could have plummeting cases.

[KSera]

1 minute ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Ok, “every hospital system and every club and restaurant and theater.” 

 

Absolutely I would vastly prefer every hospital have only vaccinated people in it if I have to enter for medical care. Obviously, that won't be the case, because it's overwhelmingly unvaccinated people there, so I wear a very high filtration mask that fits me tightly and hope that my vaccine and mask together will be sufficient against Delta. And I expect in most cases it will be. Any space will be safer if everyone in it is vaccinated than if they aren't. Sometimes Covid will still transmit, but it would make a big difference in how many cases which will change the course of the pandemic. (Same goes for club, restaurant and theater, except I'm not doing those things right now.)

[AbcdeDooDah]

7 minutes ago, Farrar said:

There's two elements to this though.

1. When the spread was lowest in the places with high vax rates, this would have been reasonably okay. As our vaccines adapt, it could become okay again, but only if the vaccine rates go up.

2. Which they won't do until people are getting closed out of places they'd like to go. So to me, that's the point. It's not a... I want to go to a club right now with Delta everywhere. It's... I want to one day eventually be able to go to a club (well, to the theater, anyway) and that's not happening until vaccine passports become a more widespread practice, thus making the stick to make people up the rates. I'm sick of this "oh, whatever" business about vaccinations. They work. They are not perfect. If everyone gets them, then even with Delta, we - like the UK - could have plummeting cases.

Like I’ve said before, I think previous infection/proof of antibodies should be acceptable along with fax record or negative test. 

People will just make fake vaccination cards (as has already happened) It means very little.

[mathnerd]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Everyone is free to not get the vaccine. But every business needs to start banning these folks from entering, as should also be their right. This is becoming standard practice for some situations - healthcare workers in some hospital systems, college students on many campuses, going to clubs and shows in NY... The practice needs to widely expand. You don't want to vaccine, fine, but then you get the virtual school for your kids. And the virtual college classes. You get closed out of concerts and theater. Your choice affects others and you're not free to walk around spreading the virus.

I think that every employer should ban unvaccinated people from their workplace - because there are millions of vaccinated, masked people like myself who do not think that Covid is a hoax, do not want to be anywhere near an unvaccinated person and it is taking away our ability to focus on work without the anxiety that being in the vicinity of an unvaccinated person gives us. Thankfully, both mine and DH's workspaces have enough room to socially distance and people are open about being vaccinated and the HR is extremely flexible, but I would refuse to go into the workplace if an antivaxxer could be anywhere near me for longer durations, not to mention my refusing to share a break room or toilet with one.

[AbcdeDooDah]

6 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I think that every employer should ban unvaccinated people from their workplace - because there are millions of vaccinated, masked people like myself who do not think that Covid is a hoax, do not want to be anywhere near an unvaccinated person and it is taking away our ability to focus on work without the anxiety that being in the vicinity of an unvaccinated person gives us. Thankfully, both mine and DH's workspaces have enough room to socially distance and people are open about being vaccinated and the HR is extremely flexible, but I would refuse to go into the workplace if an antivaxxer could be anywhere near me for longer durations, not to mention my refusing to share a break room or toilet with one.

Any unvaccinated person?

[Frances]

7 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I think that every employer should ban unvaccinated people from their workplace - because there are millions of vaccinated, masked people like myself who do not think that Covid is a hoax, do not want to be anywhere near an unvaccinated person and it is taking away our ability to focus on work without the anxiety that being in the vicinity of an unvaccinated person gives us. Thankfully, both mine and DH's workspaces have enough room to socially distance and people are open about being vaccinated and the HR is extremely flexible, but I would refuse to go into the workplace if an antivaxxer could be anywhere near me for longer durations, not to mention my refusing to share a break room or toilet with one.

Unfortunately, given the current struggle to find enough workers in many states, including mine, I’m not sure some employers could do this, even if they wanted to. For example, it’s hard to find enough CNAs for nursing homes and home health agencies in the best of times. And they have some of the lowest vaccination rates among healthcare workers, significantly lower than say doctors.