newest covid propaganda is....

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

Unfortunately, given the current struggle to find enough workers in many states, including mine, I’m not sure some employers could do this, even if they wanted to. For example, it’s hard to find enough CNAs for nursing homes and home health agencies in the best of times. And they have some of the lowest vaccination rates among healthcare workers, significantly lower than say doctors.

If employers start requiring it, then unemployment should end if someone doesn’t have it.  

[bibiche]

2 minutes ago, Frances said:

Unfortunately, given the current struggle to find enough workers in many states, including mine, I’m not sure some employers could do this, even if they wanted to. For example, it’s hard to find enough CNAs for nursing homes and home health agencies in the best of times. And they have some of the lowest vaccination rates among healthcare workers, significantly lower than say doctors.

Hmmm… maybe offer them all a free cruise that they can only go on if they’re vaccinated?  🙄
 

The stupidity, the selfishness, the ignorance, it burns. 

[mathnerd]

6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Any unvaccinated person?

Yes. I feel that I am at risk if I am around any unvaccinated person because of the contagiousness of the Delta (and Lambda) strain (I do understand that there are several reasons to be unvaccinated, but I am not willing to risk my own health to be around any unvaccinated person at this time)

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

Hold on.  You really want to open up the government being able to inject citizens without their permission?  Holy heck.  I have been totally behind the covid restrictions(masks, distancing), support the vaccine and have thought the deniers were crazy.  But no. Just no.  This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

Private businesses requiring it is not the same as the government doing mass forced vaccination. 

As it is, it is now illegal in my state for a business to require vaccination. 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Which I mean … explains why we have it in Australia where there’s next to no vaccine available!

I asked that....crickets...

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I wonder how they explain the fact that so many unvaccinated people are suffering from the delta variant then. That ones even more bizarre than usual.

They think that's a lie....it's not "their reality". 

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Right?  To believe this you also need to simultaneously believe thousands of people are involved in falsifying data.  

And...they do. And millions, really. 

55 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

It is highly effective at mitigating symptoms and hospitalizations, not stopping infection or spread its looking like more and more. That’s why vaccine passports seem useless.

1. They still prevent infection and transmission in a significant number of people. At this point, reducing infection/transmission by even 40% would be fantastic.

2. The mitigating hospitalization is HUGE. It means hat hospitals are not overwhelmed, people can get their elective surgery, there are beds for emergency patients, etc. It means kids won't lose their parents, siblings, etc to a mostly preventable death. 

Those two things are more than enough reason. 

[Frances]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

If employers start requiring it, then unemployment should end if someone doesn’t have it.  
 

I don’t think someone would qualify for unemployment if they quit or got fired for not vaccinating. I still don’t think it would completely work, because just like people who won’t vaccinate or mask, there will be plenty of businesses who won’t require it unless forced to by the government. And the employees who don’t want to vaccinate will go there to work. I recall articles about nursing homes struggling with this in some areas. 

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Hmmm… maybe offer them all a free cruise that they can only go on if they’re vaccinated?  🙄
 

The stupidity, the selfishness, the ignorance, it burns. 

The vaccine  lottery actually backfired in my state. Immunization rates went down.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Frances

[AbcdeDooDah]

3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Yes. I feel that I am at risk if I am around any unvaccinated person because of the contagiousness of the Delta (and Lambda) strain (I do understand that there are several reasons to be unvaccinated, but I am not willing to risk my own health to be around any unvaccinated person at this time)

Then you need to find another job, not the person with a valid medical exemption.

[bibiche]

2 minutes ago, Frances said:

The vaccine  lottery actually backfired in my state. Immunization rates went down.

🙄 I wish we still had numbered posts so I could easily refer to the post that said “Americans are so f*ing stupid.”

eta and it was a bit tongue-in-cheek as I was referring to a recent post from someone who didn’t care enough to get a vaccine to protect the lives of fellow citizens, but would relent and get one if required to go on a cruise. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by bibiche

[mathnerd]

5 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Hmmm… maybe offer them all a free cruise that they can only go on if they’re vaccinated?  🙄
 

The stupidity, the selfishness, the ignorance, it burns. 

You have a great idea! Also add free NFL tickets and concert tickets for the vaccinated! That might work!

Biden calls for $100 for vaccinating!

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article253123763.html

 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

Hold on.  You really want to open up the government being able to inject citizens without their permission?  Holy heck.  I have been totally behind the covid restrictions(masks, distancing), support the vaccine and have thought the deniers were crazy.  But no. Just no.  This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

So, if someone is required to wear a mask and/or get a vaccine to enter a school or hospital or grocery store that’s taking away their right to make their own medical decisions.

But if someone is required to subject themselves to exposure to a deadly virus to do the same things it’s not taking away the same right? 

[mathnerd]

6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Then you need to find another job, not the person with a valid medical exemption.

The person with the valid medical exemption should not come into a workplace like mine (open cubicles) and potentially infect hundreds of people and potentially their families, the support staff and security people! They should instead take their medical exemption document to their boss and their HR representative and work out a favorable solution for themselves. This is how the big companies in Northern California are currently operating - failure to do so will make masses of people quit in my industry where it is really hard to hire! A lot of people have negative sentiments against unvaccinated people putting them and their families at risk in my area (I mean in the thousands in my industry). As I said, the HR people are trained to work with unvaccinated people and that should be their recourse.

Edited July 30, 2021 by mathnerd

[Murphy101]

I am for the moderna vaccine and have had it and am looking for when my teens can get it. 

I would be adamantly against a govt mandate for civilians and employer mandates outside of medical staff and hospital workers.

I think a govt mandate would just be one more kindling to the fire of our divided nation at this point.

I don’t know what to do. I literally know two people who are adamant anti-maskers/vaccinators with loved ones intubated this week.  You’d think they’d be all damn I was wrong and rushing to get jabbed. Nope. Still adamant. I do not get it but if watching a loved one near death of covid doesn’t change their mind then I don’t know how the govt is going to be able to peacefully enforce a mandate.

[AbcdeDooDah]

9 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

The person with the valid medical exemption should not come into a workplace like mine (open cubicles) and potentially infect hundreds of people and potentially their families, the support staff and security people! They should instead take their medical exemption document to their boss and their HR representative and work out a favorable solution for themselves. This is how the big companies in Northern California are currently operating - failure to do so will make masses of people quit in my industry where it is really hard to hire! A lot of people have negative sentiments against unvaccinated people putting them and their families at risk in my area (I mean in the thousands in my industry). As I said, the HR people are trained to work with unvaccinated people and that should be their recourse.

I'm thinking if reasonable accommodation can't be made for their medical condition, you'd still be the one looking for another job.

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I am for the moderna vaccine and have had it and am looking for when my teens can get it. 

I would be adamantly against a govt mandate for civilians and employer mandates outside of medical staff and hospital workers.

I think a govt mandate would just be one more kindling to the fire of our divided nation at this point.

I don’t know what to do. I literally know two people who are adamant anti-maskers/vaccinators with loved ones intubated this week.  You’d think they’d be all damn I was wrong and rushing to get jabbed. Nope. Still adamant. I do not get it but if watching a loved one near death of covid doesn’t change their mind then I don’t know how the govt is going to be able to peacefully enforce a mandate.

I do think incentives are the only thing that might work...but even then. Ugh. 

I say we tell everyone that it will cure cellulite and make your penis bigger and advertise via random emails and see if that works. 

[ktgrok]

Or..fight fire with fire. 

Instead of the news telling people to get vaccinated, they shut up about it. 

Then hire some random people to make vidoes in their basement about "the real truth" about why the government doesn't want you to get vaccinated anymore. Like...they found out it makes you not have to pay taxes or something weird. Put the video on youtube, but then have it taken down right away for misinformation. 

That seems to be working for anti vax people...so maybe it would work against them too?

[mathnerd]

8 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I'm thinking if reasonable accommodation can't be made for their medical condition, you'd still be the one looking for another job.

No. I am allowed to say that I feel that my health is at risk around unvaccinated people and my entire department has said so already. And in spite of what you think, unvaccinated people are the ones being asked not to come into workplaces and potentially infect others - companies do understand that it is their duty to protect their employees' health in the workplace. This is what is actually happening in my industry. And nobody in my company wants to be around an unvaccinated coworker for 10+ hours a day. That sentiment is out in the open. In my DH's company, new hires (in the very hard to hire job market in his industry) are asking if there are any unvaccinated team members before signing their job offers.

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 minute ago, mathnerd said:

No. I am allowed to say that I feel that my health is at risk around unvaccinated people and my entire department has said so already. And in spite of what you think, unvaccinated people are the ones being asked not to come into workplaces and potentially infect others - companies do understand that it is their duty to protect their employees' health in the workplace. This is what is actually happening in my industry. And nobody in my company wants to be around an unvaccinated coworker for 10+ hours a day. That sentiment is out in the open. In my DH's company, new hires (in the very hard to hire job market in his industry) are asking if there are any unvaccinated team members before signing their job offers.

That's great your company can make reasonable accomodations for those with a medical conditions. Those that can't are opening themselves up to discrimination lawsuits.

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 minute ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm very sympathetic to this idea. I want everyone who can to be vaccinated. However, this idea makes me uncomfortable given that so many American jobs are crap. The pay and working conditions are bad. I've read that there is a shockingly high number of nursing home employees who haven't vaccinated. It sounds terrible and it's so stupid. But those jobs are terrible jobs. They are the jobs for people who have no options. In many small towns, those are the only jobs available. 

There's something wrong about telling a minimum wage employee ($7.25/hour in most states) that they must be vaccinated to keep their job. Why do we expect employees that are treated like garbage to do the right thing and get vaccinated? 

I know it's not just minimum wage employees who aren't vaccinating but many American jobs are low paying paying. 

What if instead of banning non-vaccinated employees, we paid a living wage to employees who vaccinate or have a valid medical excuse for not vaccinating? Better yet, pay everyone a living wage and then enforce standards about vaccinations in the workplace. 

 

Those are the ones who can least afford to miss several days for the side effects they heard about. It's a terrible situation all around.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

That's great your company can make reasonable accomodations for those with a medical conditions. Those that can't are opening themselves up to discrimination lawsuits.

I agree this element is a dilemma, but it's frustrating that this wouldn't be an issue if all those who could get vaccinated would. There aren't very many people with medical conditions that preclude vaccination. If little to no virus is circulating, it's not an issue for those individuals to be around everyone else (for them or for those around them). With vaccines that are required for school, it's not an issue because they aren't usually circulating. When there is an outbreak, those who aren't vaccinated are required to stay home. The school does have to continue to find a way to provide them with their education, though. That seems the same model would work in workplaces. It would require special provisions in industries that aren't compatible with working from home, though (perhaps government paid leave in that circumstance for those with valid exemptions).

[mathnerd]

Just now, Ordinary Shoes said:

 

What if instead of banning non-vaccinated employees, we paid a living wage to employees who vaccinate or have a valid medical excuse for not vaccinating? Better yet, pay everyone a living wage and then enforce standards about vaccinations in the workplace. 

 

But aren't they giving away free vaccines (really good vaccines too!) in every county already? My friends in India would give their right arm to get the Pfizer vaccine (after having seen so many deaths around them). In many states there are programs run by the county to come to your workplace or home and vaccinate if you are unable to show up at the vaccination site for whatever reason.

[Tap]

42 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

You have a great idea! Also add free NFL tickets and concert tickets for the vaccinated! That might work!

Biden calls for $100 for vaccinating!

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article253123763.html

 

Both of my employers already did this in the beginning of Covid  vaccines being available. It didn't really change anything in rates

Edited July 30, 2021 by Tap

[AbcdeDooDah]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

I agree this element is a dilemma, but it's frustrating that this wouldn't be an issue if all those who could get vaccinated would. There aren't very many people with medical conditions that preclude vaccination. If little to no virus is circulating, it's not an issue for those individuals to be around everyone else (for them or for those around them). With vaccines that are required for school, it's not an issue because they aren't usually circulating. When there is an outbreak, those who aren't vaccinated are required to stay home. The school does have to continue to find a way to provide them with their education, though. That seems the same model would work in workplaces. It would require special provisions in industries that aren't compatible with working from home, though (perhaps government paid leave in that circumstance for those with valid exemptions).

I couldn't find an estimate on the number of those with medical exemptions.

[Dmmetler]

50 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Yes. I feel that I am at risk if I am around any unvaccinated person because of the contagiousness of the Delta (and Lambda) strain (I do understand that there are several reasons to be unvaccinated, but I am not willing to risk my own health to be around any unvaccinated person at this time)

I teach mostly children below 12 who cannot be vaccinated yet. I'm willing to take the risk of teaching them, but I want parents to support me on masks, handwashing, and keeping kids home with any symptoms. They did it last year,but I'm already getting pushback for this coming one. 

[MercyA]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I mean, there is that old saying, you can't fix stupid. I feel like that is where we are at. 

That is exactly where we are at. I must think to myself a dozen times a day, how can people be so STUPID. I'm not trying to be unkind; it's just so, so frustrating. 😞

[Tap]

17 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I couldn't find an estimate on the number of those with medical exemptions.

The CDC medical exemption is pretty much 'if you are allergic to Covid vaccine".  LOL And, if you are allergic to just one component, like polysorbate 80, then you should get the vaccine, just a brand that doesn't have Polysorbate 80.  

It will be exceptionally difficult to get the medical exemption from the vaccine. I can't find it on the CDC website, but pretty much anything that is normally a risk factor for a vaccine, is now a Covid risk factor.....so those people are urged to get the vaccine, instead of discouraged from getting it. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Tap

[mathnerd]

3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Yes, but is it right to place a burden on people who aren't paid a fair wage? Why in this country, are the employees the ones who bear every risk? 

Yes, and it's not discrimination to require a vaccine. If there is no herd immunity, it's not like the virus won't spread through the unvaccinated for good reason folks. Also, what medical conditions make it unadvisable to get the COVID vaccine? Herd immunity allows people with medical exemptions to refuse vaccinations but we do not have herd immunity for COVID. If the vaccine isn't advisable, wouldn't COVID be worse? Without herd immunity, COVID is inevitable without isolation which means the person couldn't go into an office anyway. 

There are no perfect options in the middle of a pandemic without herd immunity so we have to pick the least bad options. 

Here is another dilemma for you to ponder: in my area, the COL is astronomical, people with really good salaries by any other standard are struggling to get by because of how expensive it is to survive here, then imagine the guy on minimum wage in my already high COL area who comes in to flip burgers or clean offices and gets infected by an antivaxxer and that no employer has yet to take into account the toll this takes on the blue collar support staff who are mostly contractors and need their jobs to put food on their table. This person could have done everything right and still be out of options because of someone else's attitudes.

[mathnerd]

3 minutes ago, Tap said:

The CDC exemption is pretty much 'if you are allergic to Covid vaccine".  LOL And, if you are allergic to just one component, like polysorbate 80, then you should get the vaccine, just a brand that doesn't have Polysorbate 80.  

It will exceptionally difficult to get the exemption from the vaccine. I can't find it on the CDC website, but pretty much anything that is normally a risk factor for a vaccine, is now a Covid risk factor.....so those people are urged to get the vaccine, instead of discouraged from getting it. 

Currently there is a campaign to remove the "religious exemption" to covid vaccine as well.

[MercyA]

46 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t know what to do. I literally know two people who are adamant anti-maskers/vaccinators with loved ones intubated this week.  You’d think they’d be all damn I was wrong and rushing to get jabbed. Nope. Still adamant. I do not get it but if watching a loved one near death of covid doesn’t change their mind then I don’t know how the govt is going to be able to peacefully enforce a mandate.

Right. I'm sad to say it, but nothing will change some people's views at this point. I do think people would take up arms over mandated vaccinations and it's maddening. 

[Frances]

1 minute ago, MercyA said:

Right. I'm sad to say it, but nothing will change some people's views at this point. I do think people would take up arms over mandated vaccinations and it's maddening. 

I agree with you. I mean people have been killed for asking others to mask where required.

[Frances]

6 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Currently there is a campaign to remove the "religious exemption" to covid vaccine as well.

Are there specific religions or denominations that are against it for religious reasons?

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

I teach mostly children below 12 who cannot be vaccinated yet. I'm willing to take the risk of teaching them, but I want parents to support me on masks, handwashing, and keeping kids home with any symptoms. They did it last year, but I'm already getting pushback for this coming one. 

I'm so sorry. I've been told I can no longer require masks in my Sunday School classroom. I don't have words for how wrong that is, but some parents were complaining.

I decided to stay and teach. I'll take them outside as long as I can. I figure they will be better off with me than with someone else. 

Thank God I had two people in leadership at church support my position. At least I don't feel so alone. 

***Don't quote please.****

Edited July 30, 2021 by MercyA

[MercyA]

We have seatbelt laws, and helmet laws, and drunk driving laws, all of which restrict people's bodily autonomy. If people did the right thing on their own, we wouldn't need those laws. But people have proven again and again that they WON'T do the right thing unless someone makes them. So make them, somehow.  

[AbcdeDooDah]

16 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Here is another dilemma for you to ponder: in my area, the COL is astronomical, people with really good salaries by any other standard are struggling to get by because of how expensive it is to survive here, then imagine the guy on minimum wage in my already high COL area who comes in to flip burgers or clean offices and gets infected by an antivaxxer and that no employer has yet to take into account the toll this takes on the blue collar support staff who are mostly contractors and need their jobs to put food on their table. This person could have done everything right and still be out of options because of someone else's attitudes.

What if they're infected by a vaccinated person?

[Frances]

9 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

What if they're infected by a vaccinated person?

As long as the vaccinated person did not come to work sick and was masking, at least they did everything in their power to prevent this happening. An unvaccinated person cannot say the same and would have to live with that reality. Although it’s pretty obvious by now that many Americans don’t care if their actions (or inaction) cause serious illness or death.

[MercyA]

1 minute ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

@MercyA, not quoting per your request but I think that's terrible. At some point you have to think about yourself. For some reason, I'm thinking that your daughter is about the same age as mine. If so, she's not vaccinated. You could end up passing it to her. (I'm sure you've thought of these things so I don't mean to sound like I'm lecturing you.) 

She is 13 and fully vaccinated, thankfully!

It is terrible, I agree. 

[mathnerd]

13 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

What if they're infected by a vaccinated person?

The point of vaccinating is so that there is 88% lesser chance of getting infected by the Delta variant. Those are pretty good odds as per the CDC.

The chances of getting infected by the Delta variant are almost 100% for the unvaccinated people because it is a really contagious virus which spreads even if the viral load is really low. The extent of the disease may vary from unvaccinated person to person but the chances of getting the infection are high.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01986-w

 

[AbcdeDooDah]

6 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

The point of vaccinating is so that there is 88% lesser chance of getting infected by the Delta variant. Those are pretty good odds as per the CDC.

The chances of getting infected by the Delta variant are almost 100% for the unvaccinated people because it is a really contagious virus which spreads even if the viral load is really low. The extent of the disease may vary from unvaccinated person to person but the chances of getting the infection are high.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01986-w

 

That doesn't change the outcome for the person who caught it, though. 

Either way, it's a crappy situation 

[Frances]

7 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

That doesn't change the outcome for the person who caught it, though. 

Either way, it's a crappy situation 

If they are vaccinated, it makes it far less likely they will get a serious case.

[Frances]

8 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

That doesn't change the outcome for the person who caught it, though. 

Either way, it's a crappy situation 

It does change the moral and ethical culpability of the infector, depending on whether or not they were vaccinated and masking.

[Bootsie]

6 hours ago, KSera said:

They were open to much of the public months before that (I was later than most people here, and my turn came up in April), but that doesn't matter, because Delta didn't arrive on our shores until later in Spring, and didn't start growing rapidly until beginning of Summer. We had enough time to stop this. Even with Delta here and the vaccine being less effective than it used to be at preventing transmission, everyone being vaccinated would be very likely to drop R0 below 1 and we would have avoided this wave. Wouldn't that be a good outcome? I don't understand people not wanting the vaccine to be highly effective. It's like the people who earlier in the pandemic clearly wanted the evidence to show that masks weren't effective. I asked repeatedly if they would be glad to find out they actually were very effective, and not a single anti-mask person would answer that question. It seems the same with the vaccine now.

Vaccines may have been "open to the public" but they were still very difficult to access, at least in my area, until at least April.  DH is over 70, so was in the first eligible age group, and he was not able to get his first vaccine until the second week in March--and that took driving 100 miles each way (after sitting on the computer for days trying to grab an appointment).  It really wasn't until May where I am that the problem was vaccines without willing arms rather than people searching for vaccines.  

[AnneGG]

Churches in our area held a prayer service to end COVID. Two days later they all refused to hold vaccine clinics. 
Every good gift comes from above. You asked, He answered. 

[Pawz4me]

8 hours ago, bibiche said:

Americans are so f*ing stupid. 

Truth. And I don't mean that in a flippant, "too many people don't agree with me [who is of course right]" kinda way. Years ago--around 2001--there was a fairly popular bumper sticker that read "Critical Thinking: The other national deficit." And it's true. But it's not just a national deficit. It's IMO far and away our greatest national security risk. And threat. I don't think the majority of people are that lacking, but the ones who are seem to have the loudest voices by far. Aided and egged on by foreign bots, of course. They don't have the critical thinking skills to realize they're being manipulated and used.

 

8 hours ago, Clarita said:

To one person we know we just explained that we don't actually have the technology to make microchips that small that can transmit. She actually seemed to believe it and was shocked at the explanation. 

Right. Anytime I see/hear that stupid claim about microchips I know without a doubt the person has never seen a microchip that goes into a pet. That ain't happening without the person being injecting knowing.

 

7 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

 

I think a govt mandate would just be one more kindling to the fire of our divided nation at this point.

I don’t know what to do.

Agree on both points.

 

6 hours ago, MercyA said:

That is exactly where we are at. I must think to myself a dozen times a day, how can people be so STUPID. I'm not trying to be unkind; it's just so, so frustrating. 😞

See my first comment.

 

55 minutes ago, AnneGG said:

Churches in our area held a prayer service to end COVID. Two days later they all refused to hold vaccine clinics. 
Every good gift comes from above. You asked, He answered. 

I hate to allow my vindictive feelings to get the best of me, but we will come out of this a better country if religious institutions are made to pay a very, very high price for contributing to the anti-vaccine hysteria. May they never again have even a small fraction of the societal influence they've had in the past.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Pawz4me

[MEmama]

7 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

What if they're infected by a vaccinated person?

Honestly, defeatist arguments like this are made in bad faith. What are you hoping to accomplish?
 

[Carrie12345]

33 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Honestly, defeatist arguments like this are made in bad faith. What are you hoping to accomplish?
 

Seriously. It’s like saying drunk driving doesn’t matter because deer jump into the road all the time. Let’s just abdicate all personal responsibility from everything, cuz we’re all gonna die some day!

[HeartString]

34 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Seriously. It’s like saying drunk driving doesn’t matter because deer jump into the road all the time. Let’s just abdicate all personal responsibility from everything, cuz we’re all gonna die some day!

While at the same time calling it personal responsibility just to gas light everyone.  🤦‍♀️

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

 

There's something wrong about telling a minimum wage employee ($7.25/hour in most states) that they must be vaccinated to keep their job. Why do we expect employees that are treated like garbage to do the right thing and get vaccinated? 

 

 

Well, I'd turn that around and say the LEAST we dan do for them is make sure they don't catch a deadly disease on the job! And that they are the least able to afford to quarantine if exposed, or isolate if sick. And the least likely to be able to afford medical care if they get very sick. 

Vaccinating isn't punishing them, it is protecting them!

9 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Those are the ones who can least afford to miss several days for the side effects they heard about. It's a terrible situation all around.

But even less able to afford 10 -14 days of quarantine if exposed, isolation if they catch it, medical care if they get very ill from Covid, etc. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

Honestly, defeatist arguments like this are made in bad faith. What are you hoping to accomplish?
 

The worker is "out of options" as Mathnerd said no matter who he catches it from. It's looking more and more like the vaccine is "let 'er rip" with symptom mitigation. 

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

The worker is "out of options" as Mathnerd said no matter who he catches it from. It's looking more and more like the vaccine is "let 'er rip" with symptom mitigation. 

So? 

Isn't that better?

I'm still trying to figure out how less infections, and 80% less severe illness, isn't worth it when it comes to the vaccine?

And we may find out a 3rd dose brings us back to high efficacy against infection/transmission. I mean, polio is at least 3 doese. Dtap/Tdap is 3-5 doses depending on age when you start. Hep B vaccine is 3 doses. I don't see why it would be surprising to anyone that Covid requires 3 doses. That's a common thing in vaccines. 

But so many wan to just give up, like, "well, yeah, i twould reduce deaths by 90% and ICU admissions hugely, and prevent a not insignificant number of infections and transmission...but it's not perfect, so why bother?"

 

[TechWife]

12 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Hold on.  You really want to open up the government being able to inject citizens without their permission?  Holy heck.  I have been totally behind the covid restrictions(masks, distancing), support the vaccine and have thought the deniers were crazy.  But no. Just no.  This is the US.   We have the right to bodily freedom and the right to make our own medical decisions. That right has to be protected.  Where in the world would we be next if we no longer have the right to make our own medical decisions?  

Nope. But setting health requirements to conduct business is fine with me - that’s why we have restaurant inspections, OSHA requirements, drug tests, labor laws, CPSC and other safety measures. These all protect public health. Vaccine requirements for school children protect public health. Are there vaccine exemptions? Sure, but remember that valid exceptions to the rule only work when people follow the rules. 

[TheReader]

13 hours ago, ktgrok said:

My governor made that illegal in my state. 

I live on a hell mouth. 

Same. Ours also went so far as to forbid any public entity (schools included) from mandating masks. And there was just an announcement this morning about something to do with fining people that try to...? I can't quite sort it out, but apparently he wants it to all be personal responsibility, and businesses may open/remain open without restriction, except apparently they can be fined $1000 if they try and enforce a mask mandate??? 

I'm still tracking down the actual Order to see who exactly that applies to.  

I am so done with our governor.