Tap Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) My water heater is 20 years old. We live in an area with hard water and I am starting to see a decline in effectiveness. It still makes very hot water, but only after it has been in use for a while. First thing in the morning, when it has been idle overnight and the water is barely hot, which results in a luke-warm shower. My guess is sediment build up, but since it is so old, I am thinking about replacing it instead of draining. (ETA Just to clarify, the water in the hot water tank isn't very hot in the morning, it isn't just a matter of warming up the pipes. The water heater is next the furnace in a garage and the lines are all in insulated walls, so it doesn't usually take more than a minute or two to get fully hot water to anywhere in the house.) My current one is a tank heated by gas. I will stay with gas. I see my gas company has a rebate for tankless ones, but I know nothing about current tankless heaters. I heard that the older models weren't very effective, but the last time I looked, was many, many years ago. Are they worth looking at again? Any idea what I should expect for cost/install? Where do I call to get quotes? A plumber or just order from some place like Home Depot and pay them for an install? I am sure it is regional to an extent, just looking for general ideas. Any help is appreciated! Edited February 26, 2021 by Tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 We needed a water heater over the lockdown. Ours is gas and it just stopped working. We were going to replace a part but for some reason it didn't work out. I can't remember the specifics. We went with a regular one not a tankless. I wish we would have gone with a tankless. I can't remember if the company was through Home Depot or not. But a regular one (I don't remember how big it is) was somewhere btwn $1000 and $1500. A tankless was closer to 4k. Because at that time we were so freaked about having someone in our home we went with the regular one. Having a regular one was going to be 3 or 4 hours to install and the tankless was going to be 8 hours. Now we had someone who was really good at it and it didn't take that long. But he ended up having to come 2 times because when he tried to install the first one he realized it was damaged. We never heard that tankless were not good, so I don't have any info on that. I do know that after it was installed dh wishes he would have just done it himself and saved like 800 or 1k bucks. He was not wanting to mess with gas and have an issue if he did it wrong. But when he watched it, he said he could have done it. I know nothing about draining water heaters. We haven't ever done that. We have hard water too. But I mean we have to wait to get hot water now and always have. We just run it a few minutes before we get in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 We just replaced ours in January, it was 21 yrs old. We could have replaced a part but with its age we decided it was time. We just went with a regular one, nothing fancy and dh installed it. Since our last basic model lasted so long with regularly draining sediment when it was needed and parts replacements here and there we decided it wasn't worth it to pay so much more for a fancier one. Dh isn't a fan of tankless from what he's read and they are more expensive, so I went with him on that since he is the one that messes with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innisfree Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 I think I remember reading here in the past that it's hard to retrofit a tankless heater in an older house. Is that correct? This is a dilemma we'll be facing at some point, and I really want to plan ahead this time and not just get what's available on the spur of the moment when the water heater quits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theelfqueen Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 We went tankless about 2-3 years ago. Tankless USED.to require.an exterior wall which was a big hassle.of retrofitting -- that is NOT the case any more. We did have to run a new gas line which was a bit of a hassle and expense but not a nightmare. Just depends on your house - get an estimate. Tankless requires a regular flushing of sediments which is more upkeep than our old tanker heater but .... It is completely worth it to have endless hot water. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 26, 2021 Author Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) nm Edited February 26, 2021 by Tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoraBora Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 One good thing about a traditional water heater is that it's a great source of water in an emergency. Most hold around 40 gallons. It was really nice to have a gas water heater when we had the super cold temps here last week (TX). We could drip hot water through the faucets to keep them from freezing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 9 hours ago, Tap said: My water heater is 20 years old. We live in an area with hard water and I am starting to see a decline in effectiveness. It still makes very hot water, but only after it has been in use for a while. First thing in the morning, when it has been idle overnight and the water is barely hot, which results in a luke-warm shower. My guess is sediment build up, but since it is so old, I am thinking about replacing it instead of draining. (ETA Just to clarify, the water in the hot water tank isn't very hot in the morning, it isn't just a matter of warming up the pipes. The water heater is next the furnace in a garage and the lines are all in insulated walls, so it doesn't usually take more than a minute or two to get fully hot water to anywhere in the house.) My current one is a tank heated by gas. I will stay with gas. I see my gas company has a rebate for tankless ones, but I know nothing about current tankless heaters. I heard that the older models weren't very effective, but the last time I looked, was many, many years ago. Are they worth looking at again? Any idea what I should expect for cost/install? Where do I call to get quotes? A plumber or just order from some place like Home Depot and pay them for an install? I am sure it is regional to an extent, just looking for general ideas. Any help is appreciated! We put in a gas tankless in the house we just sold. It has been about 5 years probably. We loved it. Absolutely loved it. We got the rebate and dh put it in and we still spent about $300 in materials. Our plumber friend charges a fair bit to put them in but since we live in rural OK, I am sure the prices won't compare. The people who bought out house also love it and called me to ask about it because her son wants to put one in his house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 hour ago, mommyoffive said: We needed a water heater over the lockdown. Ours is gas and it just stopped working. We were going to replace a part but for some reason it didn't work out. I can't remember the specifics. We went with a regular one not a tankless. I wish we would have gone with a tankless. I can't remember if the company was through Home Depot or not. But a regular one (I don't remember how big it is) was somewhere btwn $1000 and $1500. A tankless was closer to 4k. Because at that time we were so freaked about having someone in our home we went with the regular one. Having a regular one was going to be 3 or 4 hours to install and the tankless was going to be 8 hours. Now we had someone who was really good at it and it didn't take that long. But he ended up having to come 2 times because when he tried to install the first one he realized it was damaged. We never heard that tankless were not good, so I don't have any info on that. I do know that after it was installed dh wishes he would have just done it himself and saved like 800 or 1k bucks. He was not wanting to mess with gas and have an issue if he did it wrong. But when he watched it, he said he could have done it. I know nothing about draining water heaters. We haven't ever done that. We have hard water too. But I mean we have to wait to get hot water now and always have. We just run it a few minutes before we get in. Our tankless was only about $1000. Those prices you listed above, was that the installed price? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just now, Scarlett said: Our tankless was only about $1000. Those prices you listed above, was that the installed price? Oh, sorry. Yep those were installed prices. Did you guys do it yourself? Also ours is gas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Innisfree said: I think I remember reading here in the past that it's hard to retrofit a tankless heater in an older house. Is that correct? This is a dilemma we'll be facing at some point, and I really want to plan ahead this time and not just get what's available on the spur of the moment when the water heater quits. The UK has basically gone largely tankless and most of the housing stock is old. You need to do a bit of re-routing of pipes (to take out the kink heading to the tank) but it's not the end of the world. We are going tankless once we are allowed to have workmen in the house. The heater could go where the current one is (in the middle of the house) but we are moving it to a more sensible location in the utility room. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 13 minutes ago, mommyoffive said: Oh, sorry. Yep those were installed prices. Did you guys do it yourself? Also ours is gas. Ours was gas too. And yes dh installed it. He is pretty handy and he had some consultation help with our plumber friend. I am pretty sure our friend says he charges $2000. That is the installed price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, Laura Corin said: The UK has basically gone largely tankless and most of the housing stock is old. You need to do a bit of re-routing of pipes (to take out the kink heading to the tank) but it's not the end of the world. We are going tankless once we are allowed to have workmen in the house. The heater could go where the current one is (in the middle of the house) but we are moving it to a more sensible location in the utility room. Same for us when we switched to the tankless. The previous electric tank was under the staircase which dh hated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 minute ago, Scarlett said: Ours was gas too. And yes dh installed it. He is pretty handy and he had some consultation help with our plumber friend. I am pretty sure our friend says he charges $2000. That is the installed price. Gotcha. Again dh wasn't even wanting to do the tank water heater because it was gas. After watching it done, he would be more comfortable do it. But I I don't know about tankless. We don't have a plumber friend. But yeah I think you can buy the water heaters for cheap at a hardware store if you want to do it on your own. We could have saved at least 800 doing it on our own. But maybe the price difference in installed by a plumber quotes are do to where we live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambam Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 We have two tankless in this house. I love the fact we have unlimited hot water, but the down side is no hot water if the power goes out. Ours are gas but you still need electricity for the controls. If I ever have a choice, I will always go with tankless. We are in Texas, and they typically mount the tankless outside the house. When we had the recent severe cold, we had to go out and put an incandescent bulb and leave it burning and put thin sheet insulation in the door (not blocking the vents though). If we really had been prepared, we would also have had the pipe insulation on the exposed pipes! Several in our neighborhood didn't worry because their tankless had freeze protection. Alas, that freeze protection did not work in all cases. Several of the folks who did nothing to protect also froze up. It seems that going out there for 15 minutes and putting a hair dryer on it thawed it enough to start working again. Even though we did the freeze protection, we had one still freeze up - but the 15 minutes of hair dryer and a little waiting time resulted in it working again. We did not leave our faucets dripping. So, depending upon where your gas tankless will be mounted and your climate, consider freeze protection hassles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, Bambam said: We have two tankless in this house. I love the fact we have unlimited hot water, but the down side is no hot water if the power goes out. Ours are gas but you still need electricity for the controls. If I ever have a choice, I will always go with tankless. We are in Texas, and they typically mount the tankless outside the house. When we had the recent severe cold, we had to go out and put an incandescent bulb and leave it burning and put thin sheet insulation in the door (not blocking the vents though). If we really had been prepared, we would also have had the pipe insulation on the exposed pipes! Several in our neighborhood didn't worry because their tankless had freeze protection. Alas, that freeze protection did not work in all cases. Several of the folks who did nothing to protect also froze up. It seems that going out there for 15 minutes and putting a hair dryer on it thawed it enough to start working again. Even though we did the freeze protection, we had one still freeze up - but the 15 minutes of hair dryer and a little waiting time resulted in it working again. We did not leave our faucets dripping. So, depending upon where your gas tankless will be mounted and your climate, consider freeze protection hassles. Interesting that yours is mounted outside. Does that eliminate the need for a vent through your ceiling/roof? That was the biggest deal when dh put in our tankless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambam Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, Scarlett said: Interesting that yours is mounted outside. Does that eliminate the need for a vent through your ceiling/roof? That was the biggest deal when dh put in our tankless. I believe so. Some of the new construction is mounting the gas ones in the garage, but mostly they are still outside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Scarlett said: Interesting that yours is mounted outside. Does that eliminate the need for a vent through your ceiling/roof? That was the biggest deal when dh put in our tankless. Ours in on an outside wall. No vent through a ceiling. There are local requirements for height and distance from windows, etc. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just adding: be sure to get a tank that can fill up your tub. We have a pretty garden tub with jets, but the water tank is too small to fill the tub up. We rent or we would have fixed this situation. 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 We love our tankless water heater. I can take 20+ minute showers and not run out of hot water. Love it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Ours died two years ago in similar circumstances and we went with a new high efficiency tank rather than tankless. We wanted a water supply in case of emergency. I totally get the appeal of tankless, and if we ever ditch our hot tub for good and use our soaker tub more, we may get a tankless just for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athena1277 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) Get an estimate on tankless for your specific house. We had to replace our water heater in Dec. We knew an on demand heater would cost more, but had no idea how much. Because of the need to put it near the gas, with a place to vent, plus the amount of pipes that would need to be moved or added, the total was around $9,000. We opted instead to put the new tank in the garage, instead of keeping it upstairs. That was less than $2,000. You would think that would have added pipe for the water to go through, but it actually cut about 12 feet. The water was coming into the house, being heated on the second floor, going down under the house, branching off, and going back up to the showers and laundry. Location makes a difference. Edited February 27, 2021 by athena1277 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 We have a two-story house, with a gas water heater for each. And we have replaced each. We looked into the tankless, but decided not to because of the expense of not only the unit itself but of the retrofitting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 For us, the expense of retro fitting our house for tankless was a lot more than we wanted to spend ( and that is with friends who are plumbers ). We replaced ours ourself with a very energy efficient tank that is great. We are gas and it was about 700 to do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 2/26/2021 at 3:11 PM, QueenCat said: We love our tankless water heater. I can take 20+ minute showers and not run out of hot water. Love it! You should be able to do that with a regular water heater, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Bunny Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Endless hot water is why we decided against tankless when we had to replace ours last year. Paying for water/sewer and gas is bad enough; I can’t imagine if my family didn’t have cold water as a sign to get out! If it’s starting to show signs of not working well, you’ll want to get to that before it just springs a leak! 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 When we needed to replace our hot water heater a couple of years ago, we went with a standard tank because it was cheaper purchase price and my DH could change it out himself quickly. While we would eventually like to go to a tankless heater so that we don’t have to worry about running out of hot water, the time and expense of having to have someone come out to install it is a big factor. (We live in a rural location where it can be hard to find a plumber or fit into the schedule of the plumber that is near. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Gas for cooking and water heating if probably going to be banned writing the next 5 years. If mine dies I am going with and external electric cylinder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, kiwik said: Gas for cooking and water heating if probably going to be banned writing the next 5 years. If mine dies I am going with and external electric cylinder. I respect that you think that is a probability, but I can't imagine that as a possibly in our area. I don't know a single household that doesn't have at least some gas appliances (including brand new construction). I am absolutely sure there are all electric houses in my area, I just don't know any. Could natural gas be phased out in the future...sure. In 5 years...no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tap said: I respect that you think that is a probability, but I can't imagine that as a possibly in our area. I don't know a single household that doesn't have at least some gas appliances (including brand new construction). I am absolutely sure there are all electric houses in my area, I just don't know any. Could natural gas be phased out in the future...sure. In 5 years...no way. I am in NZ and it is going to happen as soon as a solution is come up for commercial kitchens. It may drag on 10 years or it may happen as quickly as plastic shopping bags were removed. But since my current water heater is 50 years old I wouldn't risk it. Also reticulated gas is only in main centres so for most people it means gas bottles etc. Edited March 1, 2021 by kiwik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I just heard on the news that some CA areas are requiring new subdivisions be all electric. No gas at all allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Gas is a huge in-home pollutant, and if you or anybody in the family has asthma or any sort of reduced lung capacity I'd recommend looking into switching over to electric appliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 2/28/2021 at 12:04 PM, katilac said: You should be able to do that with a regular water heater, too. Not at the same time other people are using other showers in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 34 minutes ago, QueenCat said: Not at the same time other people are using other showers in the house. Even with our old one, we could have two showering at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 3/1/2021 at 5:22 PM, itsheresomewhere said: Even with our old one, we could have two showering at the same time. That's great! We could to, but I couldn't take 20+ minute super warm showers if that was happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 3/1/2021 at 4:47 PM, QueenCat said: Not at the same time other people are using other showers in the house. Nor us either. Water pressure also would be an issue. We could never run the sprinklers, dishwasher or the washing machine any time someone wanted to shower. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 We have gas instantaneous hot water. It’s been good so far 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 We don't have one of these, but I know someone that does: an indirect water heater (gas). You have to have a boiler system, such as what is used for hot water radiant heat. They piggyback somehow on the boiler--I think they recapture lost heat. https://www.htproducts.com/indirect-water-heating.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 My dh is a plumbing contractor. He says whether tankless is better or not depends on a bunch of factors. You must have an excellent gas supply and big enough conduit; if it is too small it won’t work well. My husband is a Pro Referral Contractor through Home Depot, so one option is to talk to Home Depot and they can give you a list of vetted, local plumbers who can install and make recommendations for your specific house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/1/2021 at 1:47 PM, QueenCat said: Not at the same time other people are using other showers in the house. Unless you have young children in your home, have you considered raising the temp of your water heater so your hot water lasts longer? When we have company, we always raise the temp so don't run out of hot water. More guests mean more showers, but also more dishes and laundry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 9 hours ago, Tap said: Unless you have young children in your home, have you considered raising the temp of your water heater so your hot water lasts longer? When we have company, we always raise the temp so don't run out of hot water. More guests mean more showers, but also more dishes and laundry. I don't need to do that anymore. We have a tankless. We can have two people showering, dishes/clothes running, etc., without any problem. Before we had a tankless, the water pressure would drop if two people showered at the same time & I couldn't take super long showers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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