Children's books that inadvertently teach terrible life lessons

[Terabith]

The Giving Tree

Rainbow Fish

Love You Forever

What else?

[ktgrok]

yes! I loved the giving tree as a kid. Grew up to end up in a codependent relationship. Got out of it. Reread the book. Was horrified!

and I can't stand the rainbow fish one, but don't remember why. 

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

yes! I loved the giving tree as a kid. Grew up to end up in a codependent relationship. Got out of it. Reread the book. Was horrified!

and I can't stand the rainbow fish one, but don't remember why. 

The Rainbow Fish has all these sparkly beautiful scales and he GIVES THEM AWAY to get other fish to be his friend.  (And also make the other fish extra visible to predators, too....)

[Terabith]

When I taught at a preschool and we had Rainbow Fish in the classroom library, I actually hid it in a teaching cabinet because I found it so horrifying.  And the illustrations were so beautiful the kids loved it, but there was no way to fix it by editorializing on the fly really.  

[historically accurate]

Five in a Row uses The Story of Ping, which teaches get in line quickly or get smacked. We didn't do that book when we did the curriculum. 

[Tanaqui]

11 minutes ago, Terabith said:

The Giving Tree

Rainbow Fish

Love You Forever

What else?

 

Those are exactly the three I knew you were thinking of!

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, beckyjo said:

Five in a Row uses The Story of Ping, which teaches get in line quickly or get smacked. We didn't do that book when we did the curriculum. 

Yeah, that one seriously bothered me!  It wasn't even that ducks got spanked if they weren't quick.  It was whomever was last got a smack, and some poor duck was always going to be last.  It was terrible!

[EmseB]

I always thought Ping was about how it was better to take your lumps than try to hide your mistakes and make them worse. As in, hiding because you might get a swat results in way more consequences than just a swat on the behind.

But I hated Rainbow Fish and probably a few others that I just dumped in the garbage instead of remembering which ones they were.

[historically accurate]

2 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I always thought Ping was about how it was better to take your lumps than try to hide your mistakes and make them worse. As in, hiding because you might get a swat results in way more consequences than just a swat on the behind.

But I hated Rainbow Fish and probably a few others that I just dumped in the garbage instead of remembering which ones they were.

Well, we don't swat ever for any reason - especially not lining up slowly. So that does color my view quite a bit. 

Edited August 1, 2020 by beckyjo

[saraha]

Frederick

My husband hated Max and Ruby, for some reason our kids loved those books and he couldn't stand that Max got away with so much. I thought it was especially funny when he would complain because he was the younger brother of a sister who had to be in charge of him!

[EmseB]

Just now, beckyjo said:

Well, we don't swat ever for any reason - especially not lining up slowly. So that does color my view quite a bit. 

Ah, I guess I think of livestock getting corralled, swatted, caged, ridden, or eaten, etc., not infrequently

I mean, I assume the ducks in this situation would be raised for food, but I don't take my kids extrapolating that to their fate either. 😂

[Robin M]

Goops and How to Be Them.  Totally backfired and my kiddo didn't get the sarcasm. World's worst book. 

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, saraha said:

Frederick

My husband hated Max and Ruby, for some reason our kids loved those books and he couldn't stand that Max got away with so much. I thought it was especially funny when he would complain because he was the younger brother of a sister who had to be in charge of him!

Max and Ruby seriously irritated me because they had no parents and Ruby was seriously overly parental.  I recall editorializing while watching the tv show once that Grandma either needed to take custody of them or somebody needed to call CPS.

[saraha]

Im pretty sure my dh would say the same thing! Especially the one where max keeps ruining Ruby's cake she was making for Grandma.

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, Robin M said:

Goops and How to Be Them.  Totally backfired and my kiddo didn't get the sarcasm. World's worst book. 

Lol I’ve never heard of that book but we have the poem from first language lessons and my kids are all like “yeah we’re goops whatevs” 

[Ausmumof3]

One of the animal rescues does this series all about kids adopting puppies.  Of course it was all about being responsible for Pets and rescuing and giving new homes and adopt don’t shop.  But I’m pretty sure dd just heard “every kid gets a puppy so why not me?”

[historically accurate]

7 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Ah, I guess I think of livestock getting corralled, swatted, caged, ridden, or eaten, etc., not infrequently

I mean, I assume the ducks in this situation would be raised for food, but I don't take my kids extrapolating that to their fate either. 😂

I don't think my kids would have ever figured out that Ping was meant to be food. Children's books don't usually feature that aspect of farming. In their Kindergarten minds, I'm sure the cute little duck would have been viewed as a beloved pet. How to reconcile that to a daily swatting wasn't something I was up to. 

[historically accurate]

12 minutes ago, saraha said:

Frederick

My husband hated Max and Ruby, for some reason our kids loved those books and he couldn't stand that Max got away with so much. I thought it was especially funny when he would complain because he was the younger brother of a sister who had to be in charge of him!

Frederick? Was that the one of the poetic mouse who didn't help gather food?

[Terabith]

5 minutes ago, beckyjo said:

I don't think my kids would have ever figured out that Ping was meant to be food. Children's books don't usually feature that aspect of farming. In their Kindergarten minds, I'm sure the cute little duck would have been viewed as a beloved pet. How to reconcile that to a daily swatting wasn't something I was up to. 

I mean, Wilbur was also destined to be food, but he was still the MAIN CHARACTER.  I don't think there are many kids who wrote off Ping as "Well, that's just how it is with food animals?"

[ktgrok]

37 minutes ago, beckyjo said:

Five in a Row uses The Story of Ping, which teaches get in line quickly or get smacked. We didn't do that book when we did the curriculum. 

Ugh, yes, that blindsided me!

20 minutes ago, saraha said:

Frederick

 

I remember really loving Frederick! That's the mouse that stores up words, and then in the winter tells stories, right? As a book loving kid, and an author adult, I loved that it was about literature being as important as more mundane things. 

[PeterPan]

At least your mother didn't pray this with you every night:  

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my Soul to keep[;]
If I should die before I 'wake,
I pray the Lord my Soul to take.

So I went to bed each night wondering if I really might mysteriously and unexpectedly die in my sleep! Talk about things that backfire, lol.

[Matryoshka]

5 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

At least your mother didn't pray this with you every night:  

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my Soul to keep[;]
If I should die before I 'wake,
I pray the Lord my Soul to take.

So I went to bed each night wondering if I really might mysteriously and unexpectedly die in my sleep! Talk about things that backfire, lol.

I read that poem in a picture book where it showed Jesus showing up in the middle of the night to whisk some sleeping kid up to heaven. It terrified me... also made me think randomly dying in the middle of the night was a thing to worry about...

Edited August 1, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Robin M]

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

At least your mother didn't pray this with you every night:  

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my Soul to keep[;]
If I should die before I 'wake,
I pray the Lord my Soul to take.

So I went to bed each night wondering if I really might mysteriously and unexpectedly die in my sleep! Talk about things that backfire, lol.

My kiddo took everything literally so that prayer went quietly away.   Okay, let's make up our own.  

 Even Rock a Bye baby became a problem. I never learned the last two verses so all I remember was 

Rock-a-bye, baby, in the tree top
When the wind blows the cradle will rock
When the bough breaks the cradle will fall
Down will come baby, cradle and all.

Um, no. 

[historically accurate]

Just now, Robin M said:

My kiddo took everything literally so that prayer went quietly away.   Okay, let's make up our own.  

 Even Rock a Bye baby became a problem. I never learned the last two verses so all I remember was 

Rock-a-bye, baby, in the tree top
When the wind blows the cradle will rock
When the bough breaks the cradle will fall
Down will come baby, cradle and all.

Um, no. 

We did:

Rock a bye, baby in the tree top

When the wind blows the cradle will rock

When the bough breaks the cradle will fall

And Mama (or Daddy) will catch baby, cradle and all.

 

[katilac]

Somebody had given us The Giving Tree and dh comes walking out of their room shaking it angrily, what the hell is this? this is awful! so it didn't survive the first reading. 

21 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

At least your mother didn't pray this with you every night:  

That's the prayer I grew up with (and everyone I knew) but I definitely skipped it with my kids. The part about God taking your soul isn't nearly as comforting to six year olds as the author imagined, lol. 

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, Heartwood said:

I always said this prayer as a kid, but at the bolded part I said, "Guide me safely through the night, wake me with the morning light. " That's how we learned it.

That is a vast improvement!

[barnwife]

1 hour ago, beckyjo said:

Five in a Row uses The Story of Ping, which teaches get in line quickly or get smacked. We didn't do that book when we did the curriculum. 

I don't remember reading Ping as a kid. The first time I remember reading it was when DS10 was 5ish. And I knew the above would be what he would think. Frankly, it's what I thought as an adult! The idea proposed by another poster of taking your lumps just...never occurred to me, even as an adult. Maybe I just don't analyze picture books that deeply though.

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

When I taught at a preschool and we had Rainbow Fish in the classroom library, I actually hid it in a teaching cabinet because I found it so horrifying.  And the illustrations were so beautiful the kids loved it, but there was no way to fix it by editorializing on the fly really.  

You have beautifully expressed why I hate Rainbow Fish. 

19 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

At least your mother didn't pray this with you every night:  

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my Soul to keep[;]
If I should die before I 'wake,
I pray the Lord my Soul to take.

So I went to bed each night wondering if I really might mysteriously and unexpectedly die in my sleep! Talk about things that backfire, lol.

We say that prayer sometimes but  we use "May God guard me through the night and wake me with the morning light" for the bolded.

[Paige]

Pout Pout Fish! 

He becomes happy because a strange fish he's never seen kisses him? It's ok because she's pretty. And then he goes around kissing everyone? Problematic.

But Giving Tree is my absolute most hated book.

[MercyA]

 

3 hours ago, beckyjo said:

I don't think my kids would have ever figured out that Ping was meant to be food. Children's books don't usually feature that aspect of farming. In their Kindergarten minds, I'm sure the cute little duck would have been viewed as a beloved pet. How to reconcile that to a daily swatting wasn't something I was up to. 

This is neither here nor there, but wasn't Ping a fishing duck? When he got lost, he was caught and was going to be eaten, but he escaped. Of course, fishing ducks were treated horribly, with rings around their necks to keep them from swallowing fish they caught. [I stand corrected! He met cormorants who had rings around their necks. Thanks!]

We try not to keep books in which animals are mistreated. Case in point: Where the Red Fern Grows. Horrible book. The "humor" includes the story of a cat who was continually injured on the farm and finally left home. Hilarious. 🙄

Edited August 2, 2020 by MercyA

[sweet2ndchance]

Huh, we really liked Ping. For us, it was about being attentive and the consequences of not being attentive. Even though I don't spank personally, we knew people who did so the concept wasn't foreign or traumatizing to any of my kids. It spurred some nice talks about why we don't spank and alternative ways the duck keeper could have handled the situation. Even in kindergarten and since we were "re-rowers" those conversations became more sophisticated and nuanced each rerow. Sometimes, even if I was rowing with a younger child, my older kids would chime in or talk with me later with even more sophisticated views on it.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of books are good books, some are just better used as an example of what not to do. Ping, The Rainbow Fish, Angus Lost, Harry the Dirty Dog, The Cat In The Hat and more fall into the "what not to do" category for us. I think books are a safe way to explore family beliefs (like your family's choice of punishment for infractions of family rules), relationships (what is a good way to make friends) and breaking the rules in general (lots of talk about character and why we follow the rules and when it is okay to break rules such as in an emergency).

[sweet2ndchance]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

This is neither here nor there, but wasn't Ping a fishing duck? When he got lost, he was caught and was going to be eaten, but he escaped. Of course, fishing ducks were treated horribly, with rings around their necks to keep them from swallowing fish they caught.

No Ping didn't have the ring around his neck but while he was hiding and avoiding being last, he ran into cormorants that were fishing birds with the rings around their necks. More good conversations about the tough topic of animal cruelty at our house.

[MercyA]

3 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

No Ping didn't have the ring around his neck but while he was hiding and avoiding being last, he ran into cormorants that were fishing birds with the rings around their necks. More good conversations about the tough topic of animal cruelty at our house.

Oh! Thank you! I haven't read the book for years and years. Obviously. ☺️

[annegables]

I also despise The Berenstein Bears for the terrible life lessons. Lets make books about junk food, call kids fat, make the dad an obnoxious prat, display terrible ideas through the whole book, and stick a moral on the last page. I refused to let those books in the house. My kids dont need any help being unkind to each other.

[Innisfree]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

We don't keep books in which animals are mistreated.

One in this category for me was The Underneath. The book got glowing reviews, and may end up being good enough to redeem the appalling cruelty depicted at the beginning: I don't know, because the cruelty was too much for me. It was given to one of our kids as a gift, but after I read the first few chapters I just set it aside. I've always felt like I, as an adult, should give it another chance, but some things are just more than an animal-loving child needs to read. And, really, I don't want to either.

Dh and I hated The Rainbow Fish. Didn't even donate it, just pitched it.

[historically accurate]

13 minutes ago, Heartwood said:

There was an ABC that we discussed in my Children's Literature class in college called The Gashlycrumb Tinies by Edward Gorey. Check it out 😳.

"Wow" about sums it up.

[Miss Tick]

43 minutes ago, Heartwood said:

There was an ABC that we discussed in my Children's Literature class in college called The Gashlycrumb Tinies by Edward Gorey. Check it out 😳.

M is for Maud who was swept out to sea...

The Gorey museum on Cape Cod is a neat little place.

[JustEm]

46 minutes ago, Heartwood said:

There was an ABC that we discussed in my Children's Literature class in college called The Gashlycrumb Tinies by Edward Gorey. Check it out 😳.

ETA: This book doesn't fit into the category of inadvertently teaching children bad life lessons. It just scares them from making bad choices, ha ha.

 

I love Edward Gorey books. 

[Terabith]

49 minutes ago, Heartwood said:

There was an ABC that we discussed in my Children's Literature class in college called The Gashlycrumb Tinies by Edward Gorey. Check it out 😳.

ETA: This book doesn't fit into the category of inadvertently teaching children bad life lessons. It just scares them from making bad choices, ha ha.

 

My kids actually would have loved that one.  Weirdly, because they're pretty sensitive.  But they loved the Series of Unfortunate Events, which I couldn't stand.  Not because they were macabre, but because they felt so poorly written that it was as if they were written as a middle school vocabulary exercise.  

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I mean, Wilbur was also destined to be food, but he was still the MAIN CHARACTER.  I don't think there are many kids who wrote off Ping as "Well, that's just how it is with food animals?"

Maybe not? I know as a kid I was at least exposed to some farm animals that were ridden, raised for food, corralled, swatted on the behind. I lived in suburbia, but I know I saw it. Nevermind. I'll just say I liked Ping and my kids didn't seem phased by a duck getting swatted.

Edited August 2, 2020 by EmseB

[Robin M]

Calvin and Hobbes was another one I had to hide away so he wouldn't try to mimic the kid.  I remember one particular panel in which Calvin wrote a help sign and flashed it out the car window.  I seem to recall my son sitting at the table writing a sign and a gleeful smile on his face.  He never got the chance to try it, thankfully.  That one disappeared quicker than quick. 

No matter what, even if there was a good moral, he would always pick up on the bad idea or saying and repeat it.  *facepalm*  

[Lori D.]

Jumping in on Ping ... The problematic aspect to me is that *regardless* of attentiveness, diligence, or other good character traits, the last duck always got a swat, just for being last! The swat was NOT discipline nor corporal punishment for being lazy, late, or inattentive -- the swat happened to whoever was slowest, because that's what the human master did. Being last could be the result of just not made as physically big or fast as others, and in spite of trying as hard as you can, if the bigger guys muscle you out, you're going to get a swat. What a crappy life lesson!

The Ping book reminds me of DH talking about one teacher he had at his elementary grade parochial school. About 4th grade--so while kids may be goofy and spacey at times, you're not going to have vicious or intentionally malicious kids--the teacher apparently took a dislike to one boy (not DH), and *every single day* at the end of class she would say: "(Kid name), come up front for your paddling." Whether the poor kid had done anything bad or not! (Seriously, what could a 4th grader ever do that is paddle-worthy?!) And he had to bend over and get swatted with a wooden paddle every.single.day.all.year.long. I can't even imagine how that kind of abuse must have psychologically scarred that poor kid, not to mention completely turning him off of EVER wanting to learn anything due to the horrible association with school... 😵😢

[Garga]

1 hour ago, Heartwood said:

There was an ABC that we discussed in my Children's Literature class in college called The Gashlycrumb Tinies by Edward Gorey. Check it out 😳.

ETA: This book doesn't fit into the category of inadvertently teaching children bad life lessons. It just scares them from making bad choices, ha ha.

 

Edward Gorey is known for his macabre illustrations.  While he wrote “children’s books” it’s debatable whether his books are actually meant for children.  I always got the sense they were for adults with a dark sense of humor and maybe children who are old for their ages who also have dark senses of humor.  

 

ETA:  Incidentally, I just bought The Gashlycrum Tinies about a month ago for myself.  My kids are 15 and 17 and I didn’t even bother showing it to them because I know they wouldn’t “get” it and would wonder why I bought such a weird little book.  I bought it for the artistry of the illustrations and even for the darkness of it. But not everyone enjoys that sort of thing.  

Edited August 2, 2020 by Garga

[Katy]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

At least your mother didn't pray this with you every night:  

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my Soul to keep[;]
If I should die before I 'wake,
I pray the Lord my Soul to take.

So I went to bed each night wondering if I really might mysteriously and unexpectedly die in my sleep! Talk about things that backfire, lol.

 

I've always said:

Now I lay me down to sleep,

I pray the Lord my soul to keep,

to watch and guide me through the night,

and wake me with the morning light.

At a family funeral my cousins and I were discussing how to describe death to children and that's the first prayer we say with all our children at bedtime, and Grandma chimed in with the story that she'd changed it because the original version made my mother hysterical. 3 generations later we all still say it that way.

 

1 hour ago, annegables said:

I also despise The Berenstein Bears for the terrible life lessons. Lets make books about junk food, call kids fat, make the dad an obnoxious prat, display terrible ideas through the whole book, and stick a moral on the last page. I refused to let those books in the house. My kids dont need any help being unkind to each other.

 

I loved those books as a kid.  I have a sibling that's a child therapist who warned me that those books are terrible, studies have shown the morals are presented in such a way that they backfire and kids are much more likely to do the bad behavior than the good one.  I don't remember why.

[Kareni]

As soon as I saw the title of this post, I thought of The Giving Tree. The Rainbow Fish was another I didn't care for as were the Berenstain Bear books. I'm in good company, I see!

Regards,

Kareni

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

I read that poem in a picture book where it showed Jesus showing up in the middle of the night to whisk some sleeping kid up to heaven. It terrified me... also made me think randomly dying in the middle of the night was a thing to worry about...

I did too and same reaction

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, SusanC said:

M is for Maud who was swept out to sea...

N is for Neville, who died of ennui...

I love Edward Gorey, and my DS loved that book as a kid, especially Neville — the illustration is so perfect. When he was really bored as a kid he would say "I'm dying of ennui" and I'd say "Ok Neville" lol. 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Corraleno
add illustration

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

N is for Neville, who died of ennui...

I love Edward Gorey, and my DS loved that book as a kid, especially Neville — the illustration is so perfect. When he was really bored as a kid he would say "I'm dying of ennui" and I'd say "Ok Neville" lol. 

 

Have you read Gooney Bird Greene?  I got out of folding and matching socks, because Gooney Bird Greene said that matched socks gave her ennui, and I convinced my kids she was right.  

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Heartwood said:

There was an ABC that we discussed in my Children's Literature class in college called The Gashlycrumb Tinies by Edward Gorey. Check it out 😳.

ETA: This book doesn't fit into the category of inadvertently teaching children bad life lessons. It just scares them from making bad choices, ha ha.

 

Pretty sure someone in my dorm freshman year had a poster of this on her door. Also, a sticker that said, "I listened to REM before Stand." And she made chain mail by hand. She was cool. 🙂 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

I loved those books as a kid.  I have a sibling that's a child therapist who warned me that those books are terrible, studies have shown the morals are presented in such a way that they backfire and kids are much more likely to do the bad behavior than the good one.  I don't remember why.

 

You spend a lot of time on the bad behavior, and then only a teensy tiny bit of time on the good behavior, so what they're seeing is lots of awful behavior.

I think "terrible" is overstating it, and that books and TV shows like this are only a small part of the influences on your child's behavior - but as always, if you see that something affects your own kid badly, you need to take that seriously

[MercyA]

How can we forget Curious George? Apparently it's a-okay to trick and kidnap a baby monkey, shove him in a sack, and take him from his home and family so he can be displayed in a zoo. Ick.

My parents read these to me all the time when I was little, and it wasn't until long into adulthood that I realized how horrible they were.

Edited August 2, 2020 by MercyA