Who to believe now, Covid and the media

[Wheres Toto]

14 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Exactly. But this "article" has been passed around like it is God speaking. I have seen a lot of people posting in an uproar about conspiracies and there not really being Covid in that state. Also..I don't even know if it was posted to something called "Medium." It claims to..but it claims a lot else that is fake too.

I'm confused.  I thought you were sharing that link to show how the media is pushing fake news.  That is not a media site.   There are always random conspiracy blogs pushing all kinds of false information.  That doesn't really make them fake news, since they don't even remotely count as news.  

[HeartString]

Medium should also not count as news. It’s not a news organization, anyone can publish a piece on Medium.  It’s meant to be about ideas.  So it’s kind of like the opinion page on The NY Times, but with less oversight.  They do have a team that will take down stuff that is just wrong, eventually. That is probably why this article got removed.  
 

 

ETA:  Anyone can share an article, meme, Facebook post etc., but that isn’t the same as the media. The media has nothing to do with people who write blog posts.  

Edited April 6, 2020 by Cnew02

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Now I'm seeing more acquaintances speculating that the death rate is being inflated. What is wrong with people? 

This particular "talking point" is actually being pushed by Limbaugh, Fox News, and similar sites. The argument is that we should not count deaths from people with underlying conditions who test positive, because it was "really" their pre-existing heart condition or lung disease or whatever that killed them, and CV19 just gave that a little nudge. These deaths are purposely being used to inflate the CV19 stats to make the president look bad and justify unnecessary shut downs that damage the economy. 

[pitterpatter]

I slipped and fell in the shower like a cartoon character...both feet up and landed on the mid part of my back week before last. (It's a tile shower all the way around.) It was excruciatingly painful, and I was pretty scared that I had fractured a vertebra (or something) for about a week. The first words out of my mouth to DH (after the screaming and moaning subsided) were that I wasn't going to the hospital or urgent care. I really wanted to, though. I found out a few days afterward that a staff member at the urgent care I would have gone to had tested positive for Covid.

ETA: A friend of my mom's had a massive heart attack this morning. He's in the hospital and probably isn't going to make it, but they told his wife to go home. She got to see him through a window for just a few minutes.

On 4/5/2020 at 2:14 PM, Farrar said:

I know two families who have had to go to the hospital for non-CV related reasons recently. Friend whose kid broke a bone said that the ER *was* empty and they were able to get care quicker than expected, but that was because they were severely limiting how many people could come in with someone and they were separating out non-potential CV patients immediately. And lots of people who would have gone to the ER aren't going now. I mean, I know someone who sprained her ankle (she hopes) and she said she could have gone to urgent care in normal times but opted to hold out. I know someone else who had a severe allergic reaction who said she'd usually go to her doctor when it was like that but opted to hold off and deal with it unless it got worse.

In other words, the image is very deceiving.

I'll add... the US is a big country. In some areas, there genuinely isn't more demand for beds and there aren't a lot of CV patients and others are still avoiding less acute issues for ER/urgent care so it may actually be less busy in some places.

We're all on a curve here and that curve will continue to go up until it peaks and then it will go down. For people in NYC, that peak is coming on fast. It (say a prayer, positive thoughts, cross your fingers) might even be peaking now. However, just because the numbers are lower in a place, that doesn't mean they will stay like that or that area is somehow "fine." It just means they're further behind the curve. If people stay home, it's possible that their peak and curve will be smaller. But not if people breathe easy and don't worry about this.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by pitterpatter

[RootAnn]

On 4/5/2020 at 3:05 PM, Corraleno said:

The whole #FilmYourHospital thing is connected to QAnon, and is supposed to prove that CV19 is a Deep State hoax designed to destroy the president. I guess they think the videos and horror stories coming from doctors and nurses on the front lines are created by actors on Soros's seemingly unlimited payroll. Can't fix stupid. ☹️

I recently read Neal Stephenson's Fall; or Dodge in Hell. One part of the later book talks about someone who faked a nuclear strike on a town & forever after that, some people refused to believe the truth based on their own media consumption at the time. According to the story, your news feed on the internet eventually adjusted to feed you stories based on what you believe about the faked event.

Seems like we are heading in that direction if we aren't already there.

Edited April 6, 2020 by RootAnn

[Skippy]

I don't know if anyone remembers the old song about the news media: "It's interesting when people die. Give us dirty laundry."

It always helps me to remember that The News is not a public service but a business. The objective is higher ratings.

So reporting is almost always going to be sensationalized. This can happen by pretending things are much worse than they really are or pretending things are much better than they really are depending on what you think that your audience wants to hear.

Just because we are in a crisis, this has not changed. It is probably even more true. 

I feel like the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of what the left leaning and right leaning media are reporting on just about any story.

[Jean in Newcastle]

30 minutes ago, Skippy said:

I don't know if anyone remembers the old song about the news media: "It's interesting when people die. Give us dirty laundry."

It always helps me to remember that The News is not a public service but a business. The objective is higher ratings.

So reporting is almost always going to be sensationalized. This can happen by pretending things are much worse than they really are or pretending things are much better than they really are depending on what you think that your audience wants to hear.

Just because we are in a crisis, this has not changed. It is probably even more true. 

I feel like the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of what the left leaning and right leaning media are reporting on just about any story.

I will say what I have said on other threads.  I am very impressed with our local news.  They are not pretending that things are worse than they are or that they are better than they are.  (I have independent access to some of the facts that they report on so I have some basis for evaluating what is reported.)  Of course you do need to use some common sense / news savvy when watching or reading the news.  If it is an opinion piece, then realize that it is opinion and not straight facts.  If it is straight news then look for loaded words to see if there is bias and check facts if possible.  If it is a human interest story then react to it as a human interest story that is showing one (or perhaps a couple of) anecdote(s).  But this over-suspicion of all news media is not savviness.  It's a bias in and of itself.  And it's a bad one. 

[Guest]

On 4/5/2020 at 4:05 PM, Corraleno said:

The whole #FilmYourHospital thing is connected to QAnon, and is supposed to prove that CV19 is a Deep State hoax designed to destroy the president. I guess they think the videos and horror stories coming from doctors and nurses on the front lines are created by actors on Soros's seemingly unlimited payroll. Can't fix stupid. ☹️

Sadly, it now makes total sense considering whose FB I saw this on today. 

[TCB]

1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm just so tired of this garbage. We're supposed to be polite and look the other way when people voluntarily listen to this garbage and disseminate it to other people. "Oh, hello, how are you? How was your weekend?" If you can't do that, you're shamed for not being "civil," engaging in "cancel culture." 

 

I have a local FB page that I joined and I have just, 5 minutes ago, left the page. I have to live in this hill billy hellhole after this thing is done, and if I keep reading the stupid stuff people I know put on there I'm not going to want to talk to anyone in the future. Better to remain ignorant of what they're saying,  and still have some people to talk to I guess.

[Soror]

25 minutes ago, TCB said:

I have a local FB page that I joined and I have just, 5 minutes ago, left the page. I have to live in this hill billy hellhole after this thing is done, and if I keep reading the stupid stuff people I know put on there I'm not going to want to talk to anyone in the future. Better to remain ignorant of what they're saying,  and still have some people to talk to I guess.

Lol. That is totally my view I need to not know people's views so I can still like them after all this, same reason I unfollow everyone who post political things. 

[Frances]

53 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I will say what I have said on other threads.  I am very impressed with our local news.  They are not pretending that things are worse than they are or that they are better than they are.  (I have independent access to some of the facts that they report on so I have some basis for evaluating what is reported.)  Of course you do need to use some common sense / news savvy when watching or reading the news.  If it is an opinion piece, then realize that it is opinion and not straight facts.  If it is straight news then look for loaded words to see if there is bias and check facts if possible.  If it is a human interest story then react to it as a human interest story that is showing one (or perhaps a couple of) anecdote(s).  But this over-suspicion of all news media is not savviness.  It's a bias in and of itself.  And it's a bad one. 

Exactly. Plus there isn’t really a direct equivalent of the numerous right wing radio talk shows, unless people think something like the local news on PBS is it.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Frances

[ktgrok]

25 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I have a friend who likes to proclaim that he doesn't believe anything that comes from the media or the government. He's not a moron and he's genuinely a good guy but he has this kind of cynical "I'm over it" schtick. I once asked him "nothing the government says?" You don't believe that air traffic controllers aren't going to tell pilots when to land planes? Or they say on the news that it's raining? Really? You can't live your life that way in a society. 

But these same people believe any random anonymous person on the internet with a conspiracy theory to sell! I don't get why they think EVERY scientist, media source, government official, etc is lying and in cahoots, but some vlog filmed by a guy in a dirty tank top in his mother's basement is totally factual and completely trustworthy. It makes no sense. 

[Skippy]

The most compelling reports I have seen are from doctors -not TV doctors or doctors associated with the administration- but doctors who are treating patients. 

[Skippy]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I will say what I have said on other threads.  I am very impressed with our local news.  They are not pretending that things are worse than they are or that they are better than they are.  (I have independent access to some of the facts that they report on so I have some basis for evaluating what is reported.)  Of course you do need to use some common sense / news savvy when watching or reading the news.  If it is an opinion piece, then realize that it is opinion and not straight facts.  If it is straight news then look for loaded words to see if there is bias and check facts if possible.  If it is a human interest story then react to it as a human interest story that is showing one (or perhaps a couple of) anecdote(s).  But this over-suspicion of all news media is not savviness.  It's a bias in and of itself.  And it's a bad one. 

But what I have proposed (the business model of the news business leads to sensationalism) is not really that controversial. It’s generally acknowledged as just a part of the news business. I'm not saying that your local news must be pretending, and therefore you should disregard what they are saying. I am sorry if I left that impression. But I don't think it is a leap to say that the the nature of the news business leads to sensationalism.

Here are some quotes from Harvard Business Review: https://hbr.org/2017/01/the-u-s-medias-problems-are-much-bigger-than-fake-news-and-filter-bubbles

“The media did exactly what it was designed to do, given the incentives that govern it. It’s not that the media sets out to be sensationalist; its business model leads it in that direction.”

“Fixed costs have always been central to the economics of media. Advertising came later — and when it did, in the early 20th century, news became more sensational. That’s hardly surprising: The main metric by which news outlets are judged is the ratings they command, the page views they get, or the copies they sell.”

“Competition in the media leads to efficiency as well as to checks and balances — all good things. But it fails to internalize the externalities from profitable but sensational coverage.”

"...fixed costs and advertising-reliant business models in traditional media, which amplify sensational messages; and viewers’ news consumption patterns, which leads to people sorting across media outlets based on their beliefs and makes messages they already agree with far more effective." 

[Jean in Newcastle]

22 minutes ago, Skippy said:

But what I have proposed (the business model of the news business leads to sensationalism) is not really that controversial. It’s generally acknowledged as just a part of the news business. I'm not saying that your local news must be pretending, and therefore you should disregard what they are saying. I am sorry if I left that impression. But I don't think it is a leap to say that the the nature of the news business leads to sensationalism.

Here are some quotes from Harvard Business Review: https://hbr.org/2017/01/the-u-s-medias-problems-are-much-bigger-than-fake-news-and-filter-bubbles

“The media did exactly what it was designed to do, given the incentives that govern it. It’s not that the media sets out to be sensationalist; its business model leads it in that direction.”

“Fixed costs have always been central to the economics of media. Advertising came later — and when it did, in the early 20th century, news became more sensational. That’s hardly surprising: The main metric by which news outlets are judged is the ratings they command, the page views they get, or the copies they sell.”

“Competition in the media leads to efficiency as well as to checks and balances — all good things. But it fails to internalize the externalities from profitable but sensational coverage.”

"...fixed costs and advertising-reliant business models in traditional media, which amplify sensational messages; and viewers’ news consumption patterns, which leads to people sorting across media outlets based on their beliefs and makes messages they already agree with far more effective." 

Just because “if it bleeds it leads” doesn’t mean that the news isn’t covering a wide range of important news or that it is misleading. There are ways to choose news sources that are less sensational. If the news can be a business, then viewers/readers can be consumers and can choose wisely. And because we do have a free press there is lots to choose from. 

[Skippy]

5 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

There are ways to choose news sources that are less sensational. If the news can be a business, then viewers/readers can be consumers and can choose wisely. And because we do have a free press there is lots to choose from. 

Agreed. There is so much information out there. It makes it easier to find raw data, first hand accounts, scientific studies, etc.

But for many (present company excluded!), I'm not sure about the choosing wisely part. : )

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

But these same people believe any random anonymous person on the internet with a conspiracy theory to sell! I don't get why they think EVERY scientist, media source, government official, etc is lying and in cahoots, but some vlog filmed by a guy in a dirty tank top in his mother's basement is totally factual and completely trustworthy. It makes no sense. 

I have begun to realize that there are lots of people who don’t draw conclusions based on logic and direct facts. They draw their conclusions from emotional appeals and the whole packing trunk of rhetorical inducements. 

It’s hard for me to abide it when someone I’m close to believes emotional nonsense because I am almost the complete opposite. If you can show me the logic of a position, if you can demonstrate it with objective data, I’m convinced! If you try to make an emotional appeal without logic or evidence, I’m going to turn away. 

This was a long, long time ago but I remember once when someone I knew was trying to persuade me to come to a Longaberger Basket home party. (Remember those?) To try to persuade me, they said something like, “when people come in your house and see that you have genuine LBs, they will admire you.” Something to that effect. I actually said, “that was the wrong thing to say to me...now I definitely will not come!” If the person could have (just for a wild example) shown me evidence about how durable or superior in function they were than other baskets, I probably would have gone. But the absolute last reason I would ever buy overpriced baskets is because I think people will admire it! 

 

[DawnM]

ALL of my friends in medicine are saying it is far far worse than the media is portraying.  They are utterly exhausted and they say the media is massively underplaying everything.  Many of them are very conservative politically.

I think it is irresponsible to go rouge and not interview actual medical professionals and give such garbage to conspiracy mongering extremists.

And yes, I have an opinion about that!

This is not directed at the OP, but at the people who are putting this stuff out there.

Edited April 7, 2020 by DawnM

[mom31257]

Dd, a recently graduated new nurse in Chattanooga, TN, goes back to work tonight after being quarantined at home for 2 weeks after exposure. The department she was supposed to be working in is shut down because they have so few patients since no elective surgeries are happening and people are avoiding going to the hospital. She said nurses are being encouraged to use PTO and vacation days, which she doesn't really have yet.

Her county has 83 cases and 9 deaths. She said among all the hospitals there they have a capacity of 60 ventilators. So I pray social distancing will work and not overtax the system. 

 

[Skippy]

38 minutes ago, mom31257 said:

Dd, a recently graduated new nurse in Chattanooga, TN, goes back to work tonight after being quarantined at home for 2 weeks after exposure. The department she was supposed to be working in is shut down because they have so few patients since no elective surgeries are happening and people are avoiding going to the hospital. She said nurses are being encouraged to use PTO and vacation days, which she doesn't really have yet.

Her county has 83 cases and 9 deaths. She said among all the hospitals there they have a capacity of 60 ventilators. So I pray social distancing will work and not overtax the system. 

 

The recent models out of Tennessee are looking a lot better now. The graph below shows the projected peak needs and what is available. Something not on the chart below is 800-900 ventilators available corresponding to 208 as the projected need. I pray that the models prove to be accurate (or that even fever resources will be needed).

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/tennessee

[Happy2BaMom]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

ALL of my friends in medicine are saying it is far far worse than the media is portraying.  They are utterly exhausted and they say the media is massively underplaying everything.  Many of them are very conservative politically.

I think it is irresponsible to go rouge and not interview actual medical professionals and give such garbage to conspiracy mongering extremists.

And yes, I have an opinion about that!

This is not directed at the OP, but at the people who are putting this stuff out there.

 

Yep, same with the few (distant) relatives I have in medicine.

I'm always curious...are there any verifiable examples of the media overplaying or "hyping" Covid? I would really like to see actual examples. Because I have heard of many accusations, but never any actual links. I understand that there may be some differences in opinion here, but I think those who are leveling the accusations need to provide specific evidence of it. (To be clear, I'm not accusing the OP of this, it's more of a general comment...what SPECIFICALLY counts as "overhyping"?)

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Skippy said:

The recent models out of Tennessee are looking a lot better now. The graph below shows the projected peak needs and what is available. Something not on the chart below is 800-900 ventilators available corresponding to 208 as the projected need. I pray that the models prove to be accurate (or that even fever resources will be needed).

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/tennessee

One thing about TN, though. Our major hospitals are not evenly distributed. It is entirely possible for there to be enough beds, and enough ventilators, and enough medical personnel for cases in TN, but to still have individual hospitals overrun and no where near enough support for local residents. If Memphis ends up with more ICU beds than needed, it doesn't help Chattanooga or Knoxville at all, although it might help Little Rock, AR or Jackson, MS if they are overloaded. 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

while the people pushing the "it's not as bad as they say" meme I believe to be disgusting, I think one reason people buy into it is fear.  they want it to not be as bad - if it's as bad, then things would be dangerous out there.  so - they put their head in the sand to ignore the thing that is reasonably causing fear and disruption.

I saw similar when we went though prolonged unemployment and encountered people whose attitude was "you must be doing something wrong that these bad things are happening to you." - they tell themselves they're a good person, and indulge in the false illusion that bad things won't happen to them.

[Pam in CT]

re business models, sensationalism, "if it bleeds it leads," and sorting out news outlets:

16 hours ago, Skippy said:

I don't know if anyone remembers the old song about the news media: "It's interesting when people die. Give us dirty laundry."

It always helps me to remember that The News is not a public service but a business. The objective is higher ratings.

So reporting is almost always going to be sensationalized. This can happen by pretending things are much worse than they really are or pretending things are much better than they really are depending on what you think that your audience wants to hear.

Just because we are in a crisis, this has not changed. It is probably even more true. 

I feel like the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of what the left leaning and right leaning media are reporting on just about any story.

 

13 hours ago, Skippy said:

But what I have proposed (the business model of the news business leads to sensationalism) is not really that controversial. It’s generally acknowledged as just a part of the news business. I'm not saying that your local news must be pretending, and therefore you should disregard what they are saying. I am sorry if I left that impression. But I don't think it is a leap to say that the the nature of the news business leads to sensationalism.

Here are some quotes from Harvard Business Review: https://hbr.org/2017/01/the-u-s-medias-problems-are-much-bigger-than-fake-news-and-filter-bubbles

“The media did exactly what it was designed to do, given the incentives that govern it. It’s not that the media sets out to be sensationalist; its business model leads it in that direction.”

..."...fixed costs and advertising-reliant business models in traditional media, which amplify sensational messages; and viewers’ news consumption patterns, which leads to people sorting across media outlets based on their beliefs and makes messages they already agree with far more effective." 

 

I absolutely concur with this phenomenon as a model matter. It is critical to note that the two drivers of the phenomenon are not external. The drivers are US:

1. Our own presumption, demonstrated by sharply declined subscriptions, paid-for hard copies of newspapers and magazines, and other forms of paid-for news content, that news should be "free" (that is: micro-targeted advertising based).  This is the basis of the business model: If we are not paying for news, we are not the consumer, we are the product.  What is being bought and paid for is our personal information, not just about our likes and thumbs-up and retweets and reposts and affinity groups, and our Netflix and Spotify choices; but also our real-time location to a few yards and our IP and email addresses and our purchases and our google searches and seconds-on-task on the Internet. That is the business model. It is an entirely different model, from the 3 broadcast channel "ad based" TV that us Boomers grew up with.  What is now sold is not "access to eyeballs." What is now sold is more specific and minute-to-minute personal information about us than our own spouses could possibly ever have access to.
2. Sensationalism works because we respond to it.  If what we collectively wanted was in depth, reasoned, fact-based, primary-source substantiated news and analysis... there are plenty of paid-subscription podcasts out there right now that do just that.  The four-yakking-heads-arguing-over-each-other-with-their-respective-hot-takes format, that dominates cable news on both sides of the political spectrum, is ubiquitous because evidently, the ratings demonstrate, that's what we choose.

 

12 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Just because “if it bleeds it leads” doesn’t mean that the news isn’t covering a wide range of important news or that it is misleading. There are ways to choose news sources that are less sensational. If the news can be a business, then viewers/readers can be consumers and can choose wisely. And because we do have a free press there is lots to choose from. 

This.

And as well, if we want to short-circuit the inevitable forces of a "market driven," but "free," business model, there are increasing choices of non-profit media outlets out there, that rely neither on selling personal information, nor advertising, for their core model... but rather on voluntary donations for the bulk of their operating expenses. This is where some of the best investigative reporting I've seen over the last few years has arisen.  Many of them (ProPublica in particular) team up with mainstream for-profit partners on particular stories. Here are some I look to regularly:

CT Mirror (this is, obviously, local... but I know there are other non-profit models in other regions)

ProPublica

Mother Jones

[importswim]

15 hours ago, Skippy said:

The most compelling reports I have seen are from doctors -not TV doctors or doctors associated with the administration- but doctors who are treating patients. 

 

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

ALL of my friends in medicine are saying it is far far worse than the media is portraying.  They are utterly exhausted and they say the media is massively underplaying everything.  Many of them are very conservative politically.

I think it is irresponsible to go rouge and not interview actual medical professionals and give such garbage to conspiracy mongering extremists.

And yes, I have an opinion about that!

This is not directed at the OP, but at the people who are putting this stuff out there.

 

Unfortunately all of the friends I have in medicine are saying it's overblown and the flu is worse 🙄😲, including one who is an ER doc (though not at the main Covid hospital). It's frustrating and infuriating to me. They tout "logic" and "actual statistics" but I think are just insular and locally minded. Our area has seen some cases but hasn't popped yet and so I think they're using that as "fact" that it's being badly overblown. I've honestly been shocked by their views. 

[gardenmom5]

14 minutes ago, importswim said:

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

ALL of my friends in medicine are saying it is far far worse than the media is portraying.  They are utterly exhausted and they say the media is massively underplaying everything.  Many of them are very conservative politically.

 

 

14 minutes ago, importswim said:

 

 

 

Unfortunately all of the friends I have in medicine are saying it's overblown and the flu is worse 🙄😲, including one who is an ER doc (though not at the main Covid hospital). It's frustrating and infuriating to me. They tout "logic" and "actual statistics" but I think are just insular and locally minded. Our area has seen some cases but hasn't popped yet and so I think they're using that as "fact" that it's being badly overblown. I've honestly been shocked by their views. 

 

it's all about: Location Location Location.

some areas were quick to enact safety measures.  some were slow.  some are barely starting to see cases and are taking it lightly (I fear when they get hit, they'll be swamped), some haven't been hit with the surge yet, but are getting prepared.  some are in the midst of it.  I've also seen some mayors that talk like they are the *only city* dealing with this.  um, you're not the only place.  so while there are some talking like this is overblown, there's the other side of "no one else knows what we're suffering".  (sorry, other places are too busy dealing with this in their own city to listen to you, especially when your teachers were begging you to close the schools, and you won't even obey your own lockdown order.)

we were first to be hit. (and we led in cases/deaths for awhile.) we were among the first to lock down statewide.  (started with the three major counties, then expanded.)   things are reasonably under control - to the point our gov is sending equipment back to the national stockpile for other states to use.

[Corraleno]

16 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

But these same people believe any random anonymous person on the internet with a conspiracy theory to sell! I don't get why they think EVERY scientist, media source, government official, etc is lying and in cahoots, but some vlog filmed by a guy in a dirty tank top in his mother's basement is totally factual and completely trustworthy. It makes no sense. 

I think a lot of gullible people get sucked into this stuff because it makes them feel like they have super secret information that other people don't. The first thing all these blogs and forums and "news" programs do is tell people "Most people may be dumb enough to believe what they see and read in the 'lamestream media,' but YOU are too smart to fall for that! YOU are intelligent enough to understand [insert hugely complicated conspiracy theory OR vastly dumbed down "simple" explanation for a complex issue]! YOUR eyes are open to the truth, unlike all those deluded sheeple!" So it makes them feel superior to all the dummies around them who aren't smart enough or enlightened enough to see what's really going on.

The reason that is such an effective strategy on the part of those who push conspiracy theories and actual fake news is that it makes it even less likely that those who believe the lies will change their minds when confronted with the facts. Because then they would have to admit that they were the deluded ones who trusted the wrong sources and fell for the lies. And that messes with their entire identity, not just their understanding of a specific issue. So instead of admitting they were wrong, they just dig in their heels and believe even more outlandish conspiracy theories to explain the discrepancies. 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Corraleno

[Happy2BaMom]

2 hours ago, Plum said:

The problem in general is specifically 24/7 news that is alarmist and fear-mongering about everything. They have a history of speculation with little information. It’s better to be first and wrong than last and right. With no apologies or retractions. When everything is reported as if it is a level 10 emergency, then it becomes really easy to get cynical and tune them out because nothing is an actual emergency.
Boy who cried wolf. 
Personally, I think the news has way too many adjectives in it. Just the facts please and let me decide what to think about it. 

 

Except I asked for specific examples re: overhyping of the coronavirus.

"The problem in general", "everything", etc is more of the same overgeneralization.

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

 

The reason that is such an effective strategy on the part of those who push conspiracy theories and actual fake news is that it makes it even less likely that those who believe the lies will change their minds when confronted with the facts. Because then they would have to admit that they were the deluded ones who trusted the wrong sources and fell for the lies. And that messes with their entire identity, not just their understanding of a specific issue. So instead of admitting they were wrong, they just dig in their heels and believe even more outlandish conspiracy theories to explain the discrepancies. 

 

This is something I really don't understand but maybe that's because I'm so science minded and sometimes too logical. I've been duped before and am glad to find out the truth. I'm not happy to find out I was fooled but would rather know the truth. Yes, it's embarrassing to admit I was taken in. Yes it's hard to say omg I'm sorry, I was wrong. But I'd rather know the truth and not continue to pass on incorrect information.

We had a presidential candidate over a decade ago who was accused of being wishy washy because he once espoused different views on certain issues. To me it's a sign of intelligence, integrity, and thoughtfulness to say you used to think something but you've looked at it with hindsight, understand it better, and now you think the opposite. People shouldn't be looked down on for admitting such things. That however, is a cultural issue that I don't think will change any time soon, unfortunately. 

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Reminds me of those FB quizzes. 
If you get these 10 questions right, you’re a genius! 😂

And they're so ridiculously easy that you wonder about both the quiz creators or the people who take them and brag about their 90% score. 😂

[Skippy]

3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

One thing about TN, though. Our major hospitals are not evenly distributed. It is entirely possible for there to be enough beds, and enough ventilators, and enough medical personnel for cases in TN, but to still have individual hospitals overrun and no where near enough support for local residents. If Memphis ends up with more ICU beds than needed, it doesn't help Chattanooga or Knoxville at all, although it might help Little Rock, AR or Jackson, MS if they are overloaded. 

Yes, I totally agree with this. This is probably true for most states. This is even more true when we are talking about what is happening with the virus in the U.S. as a whole. New York looks a lot different than Montana. 

But the point is that the new models from IHME are showing drastic improvement from its previous projections for Tennessee. These are just the projections that the state and federal officials are using. But I hope that this is a sign of better things ahead than were expected for Tennessee.

Projected peak deaths per day in Tennessee:

Earlier estimate (made on April 2): 165 per day

Updated projection (made on April 5): 25 per day

Total deaths for Tennessee:

Earlier estimate: 3,422 total deaths

Updated projection: 587 total deaths

Hospital bed use: 

Earlier estimate: 15,618 hospital beds and 2,428 ICU beds

Updated projection: 1,232 hospital beds and 245 ICU beds.

Ventilators required:

Earlier estimate: 1,943 ventilators

Updated projection: 208 ventilators

 

[Skippy]

4 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

I'm always curious...are there any verifiable examples of the media overplaying or "hyping" Covid? I would really like to see actual examples. Because I have heard of many accusations, but never any actual links. I understand that there may be some differences in opinion here, but I think those who are leveling the accusations need to provide specific evidence of it. (To be clear, I'm not accusing the OP of this, it's more of a general comment...what SPECIFICALLY counts as "overhyping"?)

There was the example where CBS had to admit that they used footage from an overcrowded Italian hospital when reporting on the conditions in hospitals in NY.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/01/cbs-admits-to-using-footage-from-italy-in-report-about-nyc/

They said it was "an editing mistake." Somebody probably just got caught over-sensationalizing. 

But I've already admitted that I think sensationalizing the news is just an acknowledged part of the news business model. So things like this don't surprise me.

[Valley Girl]

31 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

We had a presidential candidate over a decade ago who was accused of being wishy washy because he once espoused different views on certain issues. To me it's a sign of intelligence, integrity, and thoughtfulness to say you used to think something but you've looked at it with hindsight, understand it better, and now you think the opposite. People shouldn't be looked down on for admitting such things. That however, is a cultural issue that I don't think will change any time soon, unfortunately. 

 

😂

Just snipped part of your post for brevity, Lady Florida.

I agree with you on the above. But then human nature comes into play. If someone I support changes position on issues (and I like the new viewpoint), it's because he/she has done exactly what you said. He/she has evolved, incorporated new info, etc. If someone I don't support does it, he/she is disingenuous, pandering, etc. How it plays depends entirely on who's doing the flip-flopping and where that person is in relation to one's own stance.

[Jean in Newcastle]

21 minutes ago, Plum said:

Ugh. If I see another....

What's with all the flip-flopping on masks? They don't work but healthcare workers can wear them? And now you want us to wear them but not the medical grade?! WHO and CDC don't know what they are doing!

 

They are just trying to reserve medical grade masks for healthcare workers since there are shortages. 

[DoraBora]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

They are just trying to reserve medical grade masks for healthcare workers since there are shortages. 

They are also telling us that masks (even homemade, cloth versions) may work in keeping down infection spread by asymptomatic people.  "My mask protects you, your mask protects me."

[lewelma]

36 minutes ago, Plum said:

Ugh. If I see another....

What's with all the flip-flopping on masks? They don't work but healthcare workers can wear them? And now you want us to wear them but not the medical grade?! WHO and CDC don't know what they are doing!

 

There is a balance between reducing spread vs touching your face more.  In dense places in the US with community spread (e.g. NYC), wearing even a not-great homemade mask would help reduce spread.  But in areas without much covid19 (rural USA, or NZ where I am), touching your face is a much bigger issue, so it is recommended to not wear a mask. 

If there were no mask shortages, this dichotomy would likely not exist, because well fitted and effective N95 masks would be more effective at reducing spread and less likely to slip causing you to touch your face.  So there wouldn't be the same trade off.

Edited April 7, 2020 by lewelma

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Ugh. If I see another comment asking....

What's with all the flip-flopping on masks? They don't work but healthcare workers can wear them? And now you want us to wear them but not the medical grade?! WHO and CDC don't know what they are doing!

 

right now - I have a lot of contempt for WHO.  they are the ones who didn't call this an epidemic until everyone was telling them it was an epidemic because it was well on its way to becoming a pandemic.

the head of the WHO is under pressure to resign.  which I think is too easy an out for him.

[Tanaqui]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Ugh. If I see another comment asking....

What's with all the flip-flopping on masks? They don't work but healthcare workers can wear them? And now you want us to wear them but not the medical grade?! WHO and CDC don't know what they are doing!

 

The WHO and the CDC may know what they're doing with regards to medicine - though after the events of the past few months I'm not convinced that the higher-ups at the CDC aren't in somebody's pocket - but they know approximately bupkis about messaging. They, quite reasonably, wanted to discourage usage of disposable masks due to shortages. As you note, "Masks don't work, and we need them for doctors" is so amazingly inconsistent that nobody knows what to take seriously or not. They should've stuck with "Masks work to protect others, even if you don't show symptoms yet. However, there aren't enough masks to go around, so please use a mask made from one of these fabrics and patterns instead."

Edited April 7, 2020 by Tanaqui

[vonfirmath]

3 hours ago, Plum said:

And now every local news FB post is filled with comments about how empty the ER and hospital parking lots are. 🤦🏻‍♀️
The lag time on this disease is long and human patience, stamina and memory is short. 

 

My stamina is certainly beginning to wane.

[TCB]

3 hours ago, Skippy said:

There was the example where CBS had to admit that they used footage from an overcrowded Italian hospital when reporting on the conditions in hospitals in NY.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/01/cbs-admits-to-using-footage-from-italy-in-report-about-nyc/

They said it was "an editing mistake." Somebody probably just got caught over-sensationalizing. 

But I've already admitted that I think sensationalizing the news is just an acknowledged part of the news business model. So things like this don't surprise me.

And the difficult and annoying thing is that many will grasp on to that incident and come to the conclusion that it is, therefore, all a big hoax! I’ve really been trying to logically explain what the problem is to some hoax conspiracy theory believers around me in the hopes that they may be more careful and not take risks. Fortunately some have listened and are now being careful but some just won’t.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

And the difficult and annoying thing is that many will grasp on to that incident and come to the conclusion that it is, therefore, all a big hoax! I’ve really been trying to logically explain what the problem is to some hoax conspiracy theory believers around me in the hopes that they may be more careful and not take risks. Fortunately some have listened and are now being careful but some just won’t.

it's not a one off. the alphabet networks have been caught doing stuff like that before - and I'm sure they did it before the first time they were caught (which was in the 90s and the ford? pick-up side fuel tank explosions. - they did something similar with the Toyota accelerator pedal story.)