living with young adult children: reality check and WWYD

[cave canem]

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE

Is it unreasonable to ask a college student home for the summer, who has use of a family car to commute to a part time job, to let us know his work schedule for the week?  Would it be different if he didn't need the car?

Same college son accompanied my minor son while he engaged in an illegal activity.  We have no knowledge of college student actually breaking the law on the trip but definitely knew younger son was breaking the law.  He doesn't know we know.   What would you do?

Thanks as always.

 

[scholastica]

I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect to be informed of when the family car will be coming and going. Depending on the illegal activity, he could be considered to be contributing to the delinquency of a minor or an accomplice, so there are possible legal implications to that, and I would think a talk with Mom and Dad might be in order.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

nm

Edited July 22, 2019 by Lang Syne Boardie

[FriedClams]

To me it's 2 different issues... 

 

The car is rude and disrespectful.

The other is a legal issue. 

It sounds like it might be a better fit for college student to spread their wings and find their own place/car. It would eliminate the proximity to younger kids, and eliminate the car issues.

[Shoeless]

It is not unreasonable to ask the college student to inform other car-users of their schedule for a shared vehicle.  Other people need to know when the car will be available for use, so they can make plans accordingly.  If the college student had their own car, I would still expect to be informed of their work schedule as a courtesy paid to people who live together.  My irritation would be slightly less if they had their own car, but it would still be present.  If I had a paying roommate, I'd still expect to have a vague idea if they were going to be home or gone and how I could contact them in the event of an emergency. 

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Not unreasonable since he’s using your car. I put it like this....if my friend was renting a room and asked to borrow my car to go to work, I’d expect to know the schedule so I could plan my week.

[Rosie_0801]

I would expect to be informed of kid's schedule if they were borrowing my car. Not so much if they weren't, but I come from a family where people go interstate without necessarily mentioning it. 

The second matter would result in some "what the bloody hell do you think you lot were doing?" conversations. Could be older was preventing younger from doing anything more stupid than was done. 

[DawnM]

Does the son know his own schedule?   I ask because when my middle son worked, they seemed to be very flighty in scheduling and would give him schedules for a few days and then change it on him.  It drove me batty, but his age group seems to not think it is a big deal.

As for the illegal activity.......what are we talking about?  Drinking a beer?  Smoking pot?  Robbing a bank?  Committing murder?   It would depend on the level as to how I would respond.  And I would want to know if older son was providing the means to the illegal activity.  If the older child had nothing to do with it, but didn't stop it, I would deal directly with the younger child who did the activity.  I don't think it is older son's job to be the parent, although there might be consequences for both children.

[Bambam]

I would expect young college students who were using my car to get to/from their work to let me know their work schedule as soon as they knew it. Because if it is a family vehicle, others might need it too. If it were their own car, answer would be different. I would still expect info about what evenings they would be home for supper and out late (whatever late is to your family). 

If adult child accompanied minor child while minor did something illegal, I'd have a real problem with that. I'd probably be inclined to let adult child know and ask them what they were thinking. I don't know the offense, but often with some, everyone goes down if one person is caught doing illegal thing. And as an adult, the penalty and long term consequences are MUCH higher. I would also probably not be inclined to let older irresponsible adult child go anything alone with minor child. I wouldn't let an unrelated adult go anywhere with my minor child if they allowed them to engage in illegal acts, and neither would I allow relatives to do that.

And I'd be sitting down having a conversation with adult college child about acceptable and non-acceptable behavior in my house. If we could come to some sort of agreement, fine. If we can't, I'd probably be inclined to let them know they had better find other options for next summer and possibly holiday breaks. 

And, yes, we had some issues with this same scenario. Nothing illegal, but lack of respect and attitude. We talked with adult child. I told my dh that if it continued, she would not be allowed to return home because it was affecting younger sibling, and that younger sibling was our primary responsibility over adult college child. Adult college child finally matured so she is now a pleasure to be around and have at home when she comes. 

[hshibley]

I’ve been In the same situation with the car. I just sent a text every week while they were at work for them to text it to me. They didn’t mind sending it to me and I didn’t mind asking. 

As far as the illegal situation I agree with Dawn. 

[Loowit]

DD uses our car and is expected to let us know when she has work or classes.  We keep a google calendar that we are all linked to and she puts her stuff on there.  She also has to ask if she needs to car for other things like meeting up with friends or such.

As for illegal activity, I would likely not let them go places together without DH or I for a very long time. I would also remind my adult child that they could be charge as an accessory to the crime by being there even if they didn't participate in the actual commission of said crime.

[catz]

I have an 18 year old and we have 2 vehicles and 3 drivers, so yes I'd need to know when the car was coming and going.  In fact, that might lead to me driving him to work at times depending on schedule.  If we had 3 vehicles for 3 drivers, I'd care about that much less.  

I do like to know general comings and goings or if staying at a friend's overnight.  

The illegal thing would depend on what happened and if the college student was a part of it, knew what was happening up front, encouraged it, etc.  Too many variables.  

Edited July 23, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[AngieW in Texas]

We have a whiteboard calendar where all the kids post their schedules. There are four of us using three cars. We have to plan around each other's schedules to make sure that everybody can get to and from work and school (21yo is in college). Each of us has a color and we put our work times on the board in our appropriate colors. I have virtually the same schedule every week (school teacher), so I only put my schedule on the board when it is different. My kids all have different schedules every week, so they put everything on the board.

As far as the illegal activity goes, your adult son needs to understand that just taking somebody to where they do something illegal can open up a horrible can of legal worms for him. He can end up with greater consequences than his little brother even if he did not participate at all because he is a legal adult.

[Annie G]

I would expect to be informed of work schedule and any changes.  In our family, a kid using our car is expected to tell us any time they use the car- and for instance, if they are going out w friends after work. We might have planned to use the car so it’s considerate to communicate.

as for accompanying the younger sib doing something illegal- I would fuss at the college kid because as an adult I would expect the kid to have the maturity to know that illegal activity is something a parent needs to know about. So at the minimum he should have told you after the fact. I’d prefer the college kid intervene and stop the sibling from doing the illegal thing but that’s asking too much.  But it’s still what I’d prefer. 

[cave canem]

Thanks, everyone.  I did not mean to imply that college son was being disrespectful.  There just seemed to be some tension around our knowing the schedule.

[lmrich]

Not that you asked... does your son have access to public transportation? 

I had a friend whose son had to take the bus twice to work, and that changed his abitlity to comply to communicating better. 

The other.. uggh. 

[EmilyGF]

If it is a shared car, then of course. What if someone else were out with the car when college son needed it? 

Hubby and I share a car, and we need to communicate because otherwise the car won't be available for the more important use.

Emily

[klmama]

Family car = family gets to know where it is and when.  If the car weren't involved and no one in the family had to provide him with transportation, I don't think he should have to tell you his work schedule.  I suspect he feels like being asked means you are checking up on him, like he's a child.  Which, given your second question, may not be completely unreasonable.  I would certainly be having a conversation about that part.

 

[gardenmom5]

family car - he needs to let other people know his schedule, especially if other people need to use it too .  I encourage my adults to let me know their schedule. - will they be home for a meal?   frankly - when multiple adults are sharing living quarters, it's just polite to give a general idea so you can schedule and know if you should expect them to be around - or not.  

illegal activity - did he provide the transportation to get to/from?  I would start by talking and finding out if he knew the illegal activity was going to happen before he provided transportation.  (in which case, he does become an accessory).  if minor child duped him into providing transport - I'd be more forgiving, but either way take it as a teaching moment about how to handle in future and why it was a bad thing.

[SKL]

I would word it as needing to know the schedule for his driving the car (and what for), so that you can plan as it's your car.  Normal consideration when anyone is sharing a car.  It matters if he's driving it for work vs. to bum around with friends, because others' important trips should have priority over his bumming around.  If he does not like that, he should go buy or rent an exclusive car for his own needs and wants.

As for the illegal activity - how would you handle this if it was a different adult, eg, your minor son's buddy, neighbor, coach?  You'd say something, right?  I think you should bring it up and let him know your feelings on the subject.  Might also place limits on where and when your minor son can go with this adult.

[elegantlion]

I would expect to sort of know a work schedule, but not require him to be accountable for the car beyond that. As a college student on summer break myself, I know that things come up. Friends text, want to get together on the fly. I would expect that. So, it's not like if he wasn't at work that he had to be home. 

I agree, the illegal activity is another issue altogether. 

[gardenmom5]

11 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

I would expect to sort of know a work schedule, but not require him to be accountable for the car beyond that. As a college student on summer break myself, I know that things come up. Friends text, want to get together on the fly. I would expect that. So, it's not like if he wasn't at work that he had to be home. 

I agree, the illegal activity is another issue altogether. 

if he's sharing the car with other family members, because it is a family car (not his exclusive use) if someone else has to use it to go to their required thing (job, dr., etc.) - those have priority over bumming around with friends.   and with cell phones - it's easy to jot off a text that -  hanging with x, y, z, won't be home to dinner - so you can include that in your own plans.

[City Mouse]

What about putting up a white board for the car schedule including times when other people need to use the car? That makes it less about keeping up with adult child’s schedule and more about the car.

i do think the nature of the illegal activity needs to be considered. Speeding is a whole lot different (to me) than say selling or buying drugs or shop lifting.

[Scarlett]

We have an 18 year old who works in food service so his schedule is never the same.  He sends us his schedule via a picture he takes of it.  If he forgets I ask him to send it.  He doesn’t seem bothered by it at all. I think it is use basic respect for people you live with.  

[LMD]

I'd be tempted to take a last minute, all day drive somewhere. When I got back, and he is stressed about not knowing what's happening with the car, I'd just shrug and say that he was the one who thought adults didn't need to share their schedules when sharing a car. 

[EKS]

When you are living with people it is reasonable to let them know your general schedule, when you will be home, when you won't, and so on.  If you are borrowing a car from them, even more so.  In short, he should be giving you an idea of his schedule whether or not he takes the car because this is how adults behave when they live with others.

I'd tell him that if he wants use of the car, he needs to act like an adult and let you know his plans.  If he doesn't like that, he can find another way to work.

I don't have any advice about the illegal activity thing.

 

[LMD]

Does he have his own key to the car? Does he pay for gas or insurance?

I'd ask him which feels more respectful to him as a fellow adult

- coming to his mommy and asking permission to borrow the car every. single. shift/day

or working out the weekly schedule with the other adults who own and pay for the car,

or buying his own darn car and paying all the expenses and not answering to anyone?

[LMD]

Adding - I wouldn't be rude or nasty about any of this. I'd be as normal and loving as usual. But this is his choice now, he wants to play the adult card then he gets the adult treatment, which is not special hand-holds and bubble wrap from consequences. This is training, he needs to learn that healthy communication and consideration isn't the same as infantilising or controlling, he is old enough to take a deep breath and think before having a knee jerk child/Parent dynamic response.

[Farrar]

Agreed with everyone else about the schedule, though if he's working retail and doesn't know it, that's a common issue among folks I've known, especially at the bottom of the ladder. But it still should be the case that he shares it. We all use Cozi, which I think is the best schedule app for families, hands down. My kids are way younger, but I make them enter their schedules for things like work and activities. You don't enter it, you are not guaranteed to get a ride (or, since mine are high schoolers who have access to free public transit, even to be able to go at all).

As for the illegal activity, I'm going to assume it's on the level of underage drinking or smoking pot. If he knocked over a 7-11, I think you've got bigger issues than whether or not his brother knew about it. I think it's not reasonable to expect a young adult who is only a couple of years older than a sibling to play parent in a situation like that. I'm not saying it's okay for them to do nothing exactly. But I also just think... gosh... expecting a young college kid who brings his teenage brother to college party and then realizes he drank a bunch of beer or something along those lines to tell the parents right away? It would take a truly extraordinary kid to do that because he's got to know that it will jeopardize both his standing with his parents and his relationship with the sibling. So I think any consequences or discussions should just keep that in mind.

[sweet2ndchance]

I agree that these are two separate issues.

I've never worded it quite that way but I guess I've always thought of adult children living at home as roommates rather than children. I would not expect a roommate to always share their work schedule with me unless it impacted me in some way, like having me give them a ride or borrow my car. If you don't share your schedule with me, I can't guarantee I can give you a ride or let you borrow the car. It's that simple. If I'm the one paying for the car, the gas, the repairs and the insurance on the vehicle, then I get final say on who can use it and when. If they are contributing to all that then we need to work out schedule for the shared vehicle which means both of us letting each other know when and for how long we need to use it.

I could be wrong but it sounds like this child wants the freedom of adulthood but can't or won't take the responsibility of finding his own transportation to have that freedom and is instead throwing a child like fit that he can't treat the family vehicle as his own. I would just lay it all out for him that he is more than welcome to use the family car for work purposes but when you share a vehicle with others you lose some of your ability to come and go as you please, including picking up last minute shifts at work or having unlimited availability to work. If he feels he needs or wants that, then he needs to find a way to get his own transportation. It's just part of the responsibilities that come with the freedom of adulthood.

As for the illegal stuff, it would really depend on what it was for me. If he was just watching after his little brother and making sure that he made it home safe, I might let it slide depending on what it was. If he was doing anything other than that, I would need to have a talk with both boys about the kind of consequences that can happen to both of them for whatever it was they were doing.

[Bluegoat]

Yes, he should let you know when he needs the car.  It's alo often helpful to let people you live with know if you are likely to be around or not.

I feel a bit differently about the illegal activity.  I think there isn't enough information.  But speaking in generalities, it's important to remember that his relationship with his brother is separate from his relationship to you.  From his perspective it's not just what his responsibility is to you but his responsibility and loyalty to his brother.  Presumably he wants the best for him, and also not to undermine their relationship, so he will make a decision in light of those two things.  Tell the parents?  Talk directly to the brother?  Something else?  Perhaps he decided the situation was under control, or that telling you would make it worse rather than better. I can't say what the right answer is without knowing the situation.  But if it's important enough you should ask him about it.