Found unauthorized cell phone in 14 y.old room - WWYD?

[madteaparty]

30 minutes ago, tbog said:

 

This. I have never understood "strategizing" to figure out how to approach my kids. She has most likely already figured out it is missing, and is already possibly thinking up excuses for having it. The direct approach has always been our best approach here. 

That and my anger and disappointment is a natural consequence of pulling this sort of nonsense. But I don’t know how to parent teens, at all apparently, so don’t listen to me. Someone send all the parenting books. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by madteaparty

[sassenach]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

Yes, well, it can also mean that the kid is binge watching old MacGyver episodes in bed every night.  Ask me how I know...

I welcome happy endings like that. 

[Pen]

30 minutes ago, kand said:

age. On the other hand, we have other kids to think of as well. 13yo is currently a good student. But if he sees that 16yo gets to use her phone however she wants even though she doesn’t do nearly half of what he does (and he doesn’t even have a smart phone yet) that’s sending a bad message to him. 

 

At this time in history that’s a common issue with cellphones. But in past times an older child going off rails and being being bad influence on younger was already an issue — though related to other activities.  

I’d probably have 16 yo choose different behavior, brick and mortar school, and / or work.   If only for the sake of decreasing influence on 13yo.

Id explain that no school isn’t a legal option where we are.  So either buckle down, or go to the brick and mortar school.  (ETA and I’d not cover up basically playing hooky as “homeschooling “.) 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Pen

[hshibley]

 

43 minutes ago, kand said:

But my second has reached a point of total disregard and disdain for parental rules or requirements. The phone and computer are HUGE issues with her, and the more time she spends on them, the worse it gets. At her age,  we should be able to be loosening restrictions more and more, but it’s not working out that way. It doesn’t sit right to allow a high school kid to do no school at all and instead spend each day on YouTube and texting strangers they met online. That’s where we are, and dd thinks it’s so unfair that we keep trying to restrict her phone use at her age. On the other hand, we have other kids to think of as well. 13yo is currently a good student. But if he sees that 16yo gets to use her phone however she wants even though she doesn’t do nearly half of what he does (and he doesn’t even have a smart phone yet) that’s sending a bad message to him. 

This is also true, but I’m finding “addressing the heart issue” is sometimes much easier said than done. It requires a teen open to talking and listening. I have others who are, but one who just is not. We are truly at a loss as parents as to what one does with a kid making these kinds of decisions. Free reign on a cell phone doesn’t seem to be helpful, but restricting isn’t working out well, either. OP’s reaction is going to have to depend on which kind of kid this is. From what she’s saying, it sounds like this may be a case where history is causing her to fear this dd is headed down a bad road. An otherwise “on track” kid doing this is going to call for a different reaction than  14yo who is starting to go off the rails. 14yo is a pretty crucial time in my opinion, as far as a kid deciding what kind of path they want to take to adulthood. 

Do you think the phone and computer are the real issue or just the symptom? With what you described I would consider counseling for your dd. Sometimes they just can’t open up to their parents and need someone else. Also for us school’s not optional here so if someone doesn’t want to homeschool it’s time for brick and mortar school.

Edit to add - i just saw your update. Hope you find a solution soon. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by hshibley
New information

[Pen]

24 minutes ago, kand said:

Been in counseling for a couple years now. Still is. And she only likes to talk to the therapist when I’m in there with her—when I’m not asking her to do work or restricting her phone, we get along great and she talks to me plenty. 

School is not optional here either. I’ve leaned a lot these past two years about not being able to make something so just because it’s the rule in our house. It sucks. ☹️

 

But then in that case the younger child can be dealt with in terms of not messing up his own life and future just because his sibling is having problems. 

 

I’m currently expecting certain behavior from my son (who is in brick and mortar already) over the summer else he’ll need to go to a place where cellphones aren’t allowed at all for a month.

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, kand said:

I’d be interested to hear about your experience with the latter. Something like that could be really beneficial for my dd. And what you say above is pretty much how we’ve been talking about it with ds. So far that’s working okay, but occasionally he gets in “it’s not fair” mode and tries out acting that way himself (which really isn’t his nature, so I’m optimistic that side won’t win out). 

 

We are in PNW, and it is Northwest Youth Corps where they go into Cascades (sometimes other places) to do camping and volunteer work.  He did the children’s 1 week adventure camp when he was 13 or 14 and loved that—it was mostly fun with one day work.  The program for age 16-18yo is for a month or 5 weeks with more work than play.  There are probably other similar things in other regions. 

[Ellie]

6 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I also wouldn't sit around waiting for her to come to me, that feels like playing games, not like direct, healthy communication that I want to model. 

Yup.

[madteaparty]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

We are in PNW, and it is Northwest Youth Corps where they go into Cascades (sometimes other places) to do camping and volunteer work.  He did the children’s 1 week adventure camp when he was 13 or 14 and loved that—it was mostly fun with one day work.  The program for age 16-18yo is for a month or 5 weeks with more work than play.  There are probably other similar things in other regions. 

I was just recently told that there’s something that sounds like this in Vermont...

[Pen]

1 hour ago, kand said:

I’d be interested to hear about your experience with the latter. Something like that could be really beneficial for my dd. And what you say above is pretty much how we’ve been talking about it with ds. So far that’s working okay, but occasionally he gets in “it’s not fair” mode and tries out acting that way himself (which really isn’t his nature, so I’m optimistic that side won’t win out). 

 

Maybe he also needs special positive perks!  “Natural” (or not)  positive consequence of doing the right thing to have plenty of clear short term benefits .  

Edited May 31, 2019 by Pen

[Janeway]

On 5/31/2019 at 11:55 AM, Ktgrok said:

 

Am I the only one who remembers being a teen and lying to my parents, and it not being because I was on the fast track to Hell? I was a really good kid, good grades, no drugs, tried alcohol once in high school, etc etc, and I still lied to my parents. Heck, even on Leave it to Beaver, with the "perfect family", the kids lied and deceived their parents. And I'm pretty sure ALL kids break house rules at some point. 

So not freak out worthy to me. Just a normal teen parenting issue. 

I also wouldn't sit around waiting for her to come to me, that feels like playing games, not like direct, healthy communication that I want to model. 

I defied my parents, sure, but access to a cell phone, newish one with an activated plan, takes a lot more than defiance. It takes another adult who has purchased a phone for her and set up and paid for a plan. That needs to be investigated big time. This is not just an issue of sneaking extra Mario or Minecraft after hours. This is an actual cell phone with a plan. This is a pretty big deal to where it came from.

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I defied my parents, sure, but access to a cell phone, newish one with an activated plan, takes a lot more than defiance. It takes another adult who has purchased a phone for her and set up and paid for a plan. That needs to be investigated big time. This is not just an issue of sneaking extra Mario or Minecraft after hours. This is an actual cell phone with a plan. This is a pretty big deal to where it came from.

My understanding is it is connected to the public wifi - not necessarily has an activated cell phone plan. 

[Janeway]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

My understanding is it is connected to the public wifi - not necessarily has an activated cell phone plan. 

She said "has service" in the original post. 

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Janeway said:

She said "has service" in the original post. 

Yes, but I thought she later clarified that it was just connected to wifi? I agree that IF it is connected to a cell plan that brings up additional questions. 

[BlsdMama]

On 5/31/2019 at 10:52 AM, EKS said:

Perhaps our definitions of what freaking out means are different. 

If the situation is indeed as you describe it here, I'd say that it is par for the course when parenting teens.

 

Deliberately sneaking to circumvent rules is par for the course of parenting teens? That makes pretty low assumptions of teen-agers. 

OP, look, we try hard to parent the heart. IOW, what were her intentions here? Having the phone in her room (intentionally breaking rules) and hiding the phone (being sneaky) are as bad as it gets. It is indeed freak out worthy. Why? Because it is the underlying intentions and personal character that is the problem.

I would address it ASAP because you need an answer from her (where did she get it) without her thinking up an answer. Also useful -a list of people she used it to have contact with before you go through it.

Doesn't matter why... And the reason for that is because you are then begging her to justify her actions. Regardless why, she intentionally broke the rules and was sneaky. Next, obviously she is giving you the passcode. Go through it.

If an adult gave it to her, that would have far reaching consequences for them. Equally, I’d limit access to anyone who helped her break our rules. 

 

 

[EKS]

1 minute ago, BlsdMama said:

Deliberately sneaking to circumvent rules is par for the course of parenting teens? That makes pretty low assumptions of teen-agers. 

You have teens--are you telling me that they have never broken the rules?  Maybe they just haven't been caught.

It's not making low assumptions.  It's making realistic assumptions.

[Tanaqui]

EKS is right. Most studies show that adolescents lie to their parents a lot. Being stricter doesn't make them more honest, it just makes them better liars.

They mostly seem to outgrow it, though.

I'm not suggesting you should ignore lying and sneaking because it's normal behavior for this age group, but you shouldn't blow it out of proportion either. (And on that note, I don't seriously believe that all you posters were squeaky-clean and honest with your parents all the time. Either you're shaping the truth here, or your memory's faulty.)

[ktgrok]

32 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

 

Deliberately sneaking to circumvent rules is par for the course of parenting teens? That makes pretty low assumptions of teen-agers. 

OP, look, we try hard to parent the heart. IOW, what were her intentions here? Having the phone in her room (intentionally breaking rules) and hiding the phone (being sneaky) are as bad as it gets.

 

No. Hiding a phone in one's room as a young teen is nowhere near as bad as it gets. 

There are teens shooting up drugs, selling their bodies, driving drunk, attacking their parents physically, dropping out of school, etc etc. It can get much much worse than a teen hiding a phone. 

[scholastica]

15 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

EKS is right. Most studies show that adolescents lie to their parents a lot. Being stricter doesn't make them more honest, it just makes them better liars.

They mostly seem to outgrow it, though.

I'm not suggesting you should ignore lying and sneaking because it's normal behavior for this age group, but you shouldn't blow it out of proportion either. (And on that note, I don't seriously believe that all you posters were squeaky-clean and honest with your parents all the time. Either you're shaping the truth here, or your memory's faulty.)

I was not totally honest with my parents. I'll admit that. Because I was doing things that they, as I now know rightly, would not have approved of and would have incurred punishment. It doesn't make the behaviors or the lying right just because the majority of people that age do it. Criminals tend to lie about their activities, too, to avoid punishment by the authorities.

[Tanaqui]

And I didn't say it was right, just that we shouldn't overreact to it or, especially, consider it a strong indication of serious, life-long character problems.

I mean, scholastica, are you going to honestly say now that you are just as prone to lying now about your behavior as you were then (and that you do all the same ill-advised things you lied about)?

It's certainly possible that you still lie all the time, without cease. But probably you outgrew most of it, and that happened just because you grew up.

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, scholastica said:

I was not totally honest with my parents. I'll admit that. Because I was doing things that they, as I now know rightly, would not have approved of and would have incurred punishment. It doesn't make the behaviors or the lying right just because the majority of people that age do it. Criminals tend to lie about their activities, too, to avoid punishment by the authorities.

No, not right, but normal. Not a sign that the child is going to grow up irresponsible, immoral, etc. Some of the most responsible, ethical people you know probably lied to their parents, broke rules, etc. Lying to a parent or breaking a rule isn't the worst thing a teen can do. The doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable, punished, etc. Just that one should keep in mind that it is fairly normal, just like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. 

[shawthorne44]

Another reason to confront the kid sooner rather than later, so you can find out the deal and update us.   🙂   
We are waiting.   Hoping for binge-watching of a PG show from the 80's.   

[scholastica]

1 minute ago, Tanaqui said:

And I didn't say it was right, just that we shouldn't overreact to it or, especially, consider it a strong indication of serious, life-long character problems.

I mean, scholastica, are you going to honestly say now that you are just as prone to lying now about your behavior as you were then (and that you do all the same ill-advised things you lied about)?

It's certainly possible that you still lie all the time, without cease. But probably you outgrew most of it, and that happened just because you grew up.

No, I don't. But some people don't outgrow it. And some kids are in way over their heads in situations that end really badly. It's hard to know at any given time what you are dealing with in the moment. So, I can understand the freak out. It's okay to freak out away from the kid, but a parent should remain calm when assessing and addressing the situation. I object to the idea that "all teens lie" means there is never anything worthy of alarm.

[mamakelly]

Been following this thread since Thursday. Super curious to hear how it turned out. 

[Janeway]

I do not know why anyone is arguing over whether teens will break rules or not or if they, as teens, broke rules. Many teens will break rules, not all. Many people on this board broke rules as kids, but not all. Many people exceed the speed limit or break bigger laws, like theft, drugs, murder, etc. If you get caught in the real world, there are consequences. IF a parent catches a teen breaking a rule, there need to be consequences. Any parent who sets down a rule and then when they find out the teen is breaking it just responds with "oh well, I broke rules too" and that is it, is simply not parenting. If you are doing that, you are your child's friend, not a parent. 

[Carrie12345]

I hope all is working out okay at the OP’s house!

I’ve definitely found dealing with technology to be the biggest parenting challenge. Not as much with my oldest (ds, nearly 21) as with the next ones (dds, turning 16 and 17.) And my 12yo ds is, at least at this point, extremely compliant with our rules. I don’t know if it’s a gender thing, a timing thing (their ages when different communication trends hit), an individual personality thing, or what, but the girls are my tough customers.

It’s not the tech itself, but the way it can expedite, facilitate, or compound the traps of poor impulse control. I have great kids who do awesome things as terrific human beings. And some stupid things. Acknowledging that as “normal” is not the same as ignoring it!

A secret cell phone would definitely alarm me, particularly at the young age in the OP’s case. Not because they’d be doomed to be an 18yo degenerate (@@) but because I wouldn’t know what degree of issue I was facing yet. I would not handle Suzy using Jane’s old phone to send Jane unicorn filter pictures at 10pm the same way I’d handle Suzy getting a phone from an older boy and doing more dangerous things on the internet. Some 14yos can be scarily deceitful, but a lot more are just naive and overconfident in their ability to “take care of themselves.” Treating a normal teen who does dumb things like a budding sociopath doesn’t sound like a very healthy approach.

[SanDiegoMom]

I disagree with the idea that lying at 14 only means worse deception down the road at 18, but then again my 4th grade teacher told my mother I was on the road to a life of crime and now I'm just a boring suburban mom:) 

Sneaking and lying are often symptoms of something else -- either a cry for independence and autonomy, depression, anxiety, or a factor in something like Adhd that leads to poor impulse control and self-regulation.   If you can get to the root of the real problem, the reason she feels she needs the phone, then maybe you can help her make better decisions.

Approaching with curiosity and a non-judgemental attitude is key.  Shame, judgement, disappointment -- a sure way to drive your kid into even worse behaviors.  

[EKS]

11 hours ago, scholastica said:

I was not totally honest with my parents. I'll admit that. Because I was doing things that they, as I now know rightly, would not have approved of and would have incurred punishment. It doesn't make the behaviors or the lying right just because the majority of people that age do it. Criminals tend to lie about their activities, too, to avoid punishment by the authorities.

No one is saying it's right--just that it is typical.

10 hours ago, Janeway said:

I do not know why anyone is arguing over whether teens will break rules or not or if they, as teens, broke rules. Many teens will break rules, not all. Many people on this board broke rules as kids, but not all. Many people exceed the speed limit or break bigger laws, like theft, drugs, murder, etc. If you get caught in the real world, there are consequences. IF a parent catches a teen breaking a rule, there need to be consequences. Any parent who sets down a rule and then when they find out the teen is breaking it just responds with "oh well, I broke rules too" and that is it, is simply not parenting. If you are doing that, you are your child's friend, not a parent. 

Again, no one is advocating that nothing should be done.  Something should absolutely be done.  But on the "bad things teens do" scale--assuming that the phone came from a relatively innocent source (a friend, for example) for a relatively innocent use (Skyping with said friend after hours, for example)--this doesn't even crack the top ten.

[Tanaqui]

11 hours ago, Janeway said:

I do not know why anyone is arguing over whether teens will break rules or not or if they, as teens, broke rules.

 

Because some people are going utterly off the deep end here. There is a middle ground between "lying is a sign something is very badly wrong with your child's character and future" and "Meh, whatever, let them do everything".

Quote

Any parent who sets down a rule and then when they find out the teen is breaking it just responds with "oh well, I broke rules too" and that is it, is simply not parenting. If you are doing that, you are your child's friend, not a parent. 

 

Literally nobody here is advocating for that.

[Tanaqui]

11 hours ago, scholastica said:

No, I don't. But some people don't outgrow it. And some kids are in way over their heads in situations that end really badly. It's hard to know at any given time what you are dealing with in the moment. So, I can understand the freak out. It's okay to freak out away from the kid, but a parent should remain calm when assessing and addressing the situation.

 

I don't think that you can parent your way out of a kid who is actually on the path to being a pathological liar.

Quote

I object to the idea that "all teens lie" means there is never anything worthy of alarm.

 

Nobody said anything quite so sweeping.

[Farrar]

I'm also curious how this came out. And it probably surprises no one that assuming the phone wasn't being used for something really egregious, but was just on wifi occasionally messaging after hours, I wouldn't completely freak out either. Just set a consequence and move on. 

[EKS]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

The problem I have is the idea that getting a friend to give you a phone behind your parents back specifically so that you can break the rules your parents laid out isn't "relatively innocent" in my opinion.  Is it as bad as driving drunk, joining a gang, doing drugs, whatever?  Of course not.  I just don't think that the fact that there are worse things a teen could do would make deliberately sneaking around breaking a parents rules "relatively innocent" or not something to be taken seriously.  

You're not quoting what I said accurately.  I said "relatively innocent source" in the context of where she got the phone.  A "relatively innocent source" would be a close girlfriend.  A nefarious source would be a 42 year old drug dealer she met online.  And then there is a whole spectrum of possibilities in between.

 

[sassenach]

Coming back to this, I feel like I need to separate out my earlier opinion of “freak out worthy” from “doomed to delinquency.”

I agree, it is not shocking or abnormal for a teen to sneak/lie. Some do it more than others but almost all do it to some degree. 

To me, the freak out worth part is more like a “you better get to the bottom of this and sort out of there is risky behavior going on or not.” Because with this particular behavior (secret cell phone) I think there is potential to uncover more serious issues. 

However, just the mere fact of catching a kid trying to get away with something? No prophecies of doom there. 

[EKS]

8 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am quoting you accurately.  I simply disagree.

No you're not--but it's not worth arguing about.

Edited June 2, 2019 by EKS

[hippiemamato3]

21 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

 

OP, look, we try hard to parent the heart. IOW, what were her intentions here? Having the phone in her room (intentionally breaking rules) and hiding the phone (being sneaky) are as bad as it gets.

 

That's not nearly as bad as it gets. It's mild. It's so mild. Or at least it could be. 

[Tanaqui]

That's the term *relatively* that you guys are ignoring. The source is innocent *relative* to the hellish offspring of Voldemort and the witch in Hansel and Gretel. Just depends on where you put your baseline.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Tanaqui

[EKS]

23 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

That's the term *relatively* that you guys are ignoring. The source is innocent *relative* to the hellish offspring of Voldemort and the witch in Hansel and Gretel. Just depends on where you put your baseline.

Thank you.  This.

[Jean in Newcastle]

36 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

That's the term *relatively* that you guys are ignoring. The source is innocent *relative* to the hellish offspring of Voldemort and the witch in Hansel and Gretel. Just depends on where you put your baseline.

Not to mention that teenagers who make foolish decisions can also be friends. The friend could have just not thought through all the ramifications of providing a phone to a friend. The friend doesn’t have to be a subversive liar trying to corrupt the OP’s teen. 

(Of course all of this is hypothetical until the teen is actually talked to. And the more a parent listens without judgement, the more likely a teen is going to communicate honestly. )

[HSMWB]

***Update from OP***

She did not come asking about the missing phone, so I finally asked her where it came from.  She told me that it was from a friend (who is also homeschooled since birth I know this board will wonder), and then gave an explanation about how friend didn't have a charger cord for the phone, she (friend) thought she (daughter) might have one, so friend lent it to her to charge the phone.  She said this happened last week when they saw each other.  The phone was not physically near us when this conversation happened, but today I plan to ask her to unlock it in front of me so that I can see what is on it.  Assuming that story stays the same, then plan to go meet the mom of the friend for coffee and give the phone back to her to deal with as she pleases.  

I don't quite believe all aspects of this story, but I think that the bones could be believeable.  This particular friend has expressed that she (DD's friend) thinks our rules are a bit strict (but talking with the mom we agreed that friend only heard daughters side, when hearing all sides it is much more reasonable) and she also has several older siblings who are young adults and I could see them letting her have 'castaway/old' phones of theirs that she then gave to our daughter.

Daughter also reminded me tonight of exactly why we had been taking all screens.  Last night we went to bed early and only took cellphones because we were tired it has been a busy weekend.  The laptop was left in the common area.  In the middle of the night I got up because I could not sleep and wanted to do a little work on the laptop . . . it was found with a dead battery on sleeping DD's bed.  I looked through the history and she had been watching youtube make-up tutorials . . . sigh

Edited June 3, 2019 by HSMWB

[ikslo]

If it is friend’s phone, she may not have the password to unlock it, though.

[regentrude]

29 minutes ago, HSMWB said:

  I looked through the history and she had been watching youtube make-up tutorials . . . sigh

and that must be forbidden, because???

If this is the dangerous stuff she is doing with electronics, I don't understand the rule at all. Would staying up all night with a book elicit a different reaction?

Edited June 3, 2019 by regentrude

[maize]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

and that must be forbidden, because???

If this is the dangerous stuff she is doing with electronics, I don't understand the rule at all. Would staying up all night with a book elicit a different reaction?

 

I don't want my kids watching screens at night regardless of the content, they need their sleep.

And no I don't want them staying up reading either though for most kids most of the time books are not as stimulating (there are certainly exceptions, I've paid the price of staying up too late because I couldn't put a book down more than once) and don't impact melatonin production as much as the blue light of a screen shining straight into the eyes.

[madteaparty]

13 minutes ago, regentrude said:

and that must be forbidden, because???

If this is the dangerous stuff she is doing with electronics, I don't understand the rule at all. Would staying up all night with a book elicit a different reaction?

I’m not a scientist, but I think we can agree that screens and paper books have a different effect on a teen that needs good sleep, yes?  I am super protective of everyone’s sleep in this family just like I’m protective of what they eat, etc. 

op, make up videos are kind of cute. If my child was doing that (now I think, he did do that once, was up late one night uploading videos to his YouTube channel—it hadn’t finished “processing” during the evening hours) I’d ask what he needs to do that during awake hours. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by madteaparty

[HSMWB]

21 minutes ago, regentrude said:

and that must be forbidden, because???

If this is the dangerous stuff she is doing with electronics, I don't understand the rule at all. Would staying up all night with a book elicit a different reaction?

In our family, we have had issues where kids don't want to get up in the morning and do what needs to be done (co-op, church, fieldtrips, playdates, etc.), because they are tired and have not got enough sleep.  Screens seem to affect my kids/us and all of us make an effort to put all screens away at nine PM.  So yes, if she had been reading a paper book I would have been ok with that, or playing her flute, or cleaning her room, or writing a letter for that matter.  Also, we do not like screens in rooms, period.  And yes, the adults in the house follow this rule as well.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, HSMWB said:

In our family, we have had issues where kids don't want to get up in the morning and do what needs to be done (co-op, church, fieldtrips, playdates, etc.), because they are tired and have not got enough sleep.  Screens seem to affect my kids/us and all of us make an effort to put all screens away at nine PM.  So yes, if she had been reading a paper book I would have been ok with that, or playing her flute, or cleaning her room, or writing a letter for that matter.  Also, we do not like screens in rooms, period.  And yes, the adults in the house follow this rule as well.

But there are natural consequences (lack of sleep) attached to this, right?  It is a fairly mild learning experience that many young people figure out without a lot of restrictions. It isn’t a huge moral failing even if they are mildly rebelling by trying to have some extra autonomy. If kids don’t have some autonomy to figure these things out when they are young, how are they going to react during college when hopefully they aren’t so structured?  

Of course sleep is important. And screens can impact melatonin levels. But this isn’t something that needs anything more than a caution as to the health aspects. And if a teen needs to experience it for themselves then the consequences are fairly benign. 

[catz]

46 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But there are natural consequences (lack of sleep) attached to this, right?  It is a fairly mild learning experience that many young people figure out without a lot of restrictions. It isn’t a huge moral failing even if they are mildly rebelling by trying to have some extra autonomy. If kids don’t have some autonomy to figure these things out when they are young, how are they going to react during college when hopefully they aren’t so structured?  

Of course sleep is important. And screens can impact melatonin levels. But this isn’t something that needs anything more than a caution as to the health aspects. And if a teen needs to experience it for themselves then the consequences are fairly benign. 

Some kids just need more help and guidance with this than others for longer periods of time.  One of my kids has always made better choices about sleeping and screens than the other.  Our family has never had screens in bedrooms.  My 18 year old still puts his phone on our main floor charging station at night and goes to bed.  It's just habit now.  Same kid who would have had that phone in hand 24-7  and would have had hard time self imposing limits regardless of natural consequences at age 12-14.  As with many parenting choices, YMMV. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[scholastica]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But there are natural consequences (lack of sleep) attached to this, right?  It is a fairly mild learning experience that many young people figure out without a lot of restrictions. It isn’t a huge moral failing even if they are mildly rebelling by trying to have some extra autonomy. If kids don’t have some autonomy to figure these things out when they are young, how are they going to react during college when hopefully they aren’t so structured?  

Of course sleep is important. And screens can impact melatonin levels. But this isn’t something that needs anything more than a caution as to the health aspects. And if a teen needs to experience it for themselves then the consequences are fairly benign. 

Until they’re not benign. Like, they never do learn that lesson and they go to college with these bad habits and can’t function. We have a relative who flunked out of school due to this. It really is kid dependent. I have one teen who totally self regulates for sleep and others who don’t. It also affects the rest of the family, especially in larger families if someone is asleep or too tired to pull their weight.

[Pen]

3 hours ago, HSMWB said:

In our family, we have had issues where kids don't want to get up in the morning and do what needs to be done (co-op, church, fieldtrips, playdates, etc.), because they are tired and have not got enough sleep.  Screens seem to affect my kids/us and all of us make an effort to put all screens away at nine PM.  So yes, if she had been reading a paper book I would have been ok with that, or playing her flute, or cleaning her room, or writing a letter for that matter.  Also, we do not like screens in rooms, period.  And yes, the adults in the house follow this rule as well.

 

Weve had this too.  We compromised to some degree as around 9pm is usually end of screens and around time Airplane mode goes on — but listening to audiobooks or music that was already downloaded and softly enough not to impact others is allowed.   I decided less light and better melatonin production meant audio was preferable to something like reading.  We have people who find it easier to fall asleep with something to listen to.

[EmseB]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

and that must be forbidden, because???

If this is the dangerous stuff she is doing with electronics, I don't understand the rule at all. Would staying up all night with a book elicit a different reaction?

Is the question why parents wouldn't want their kids up using the internet in the middle of the night? Content isn't the issue in this case, although I will say YouTube definitely has some really crazy algorithms for what to watch next. But in any case, in our house, books do get the same reaction for some kids because some kids then cannot participate in life the next day because they didn't get enough sleep and who has to bear the consequences of that? Mostly me trying to get them ready for the day, get them to focus, keep them from looking like death while we are at an event that I've already paid for or scheduled, or just trying to get them to act nice to the rest of the household.

[Tanaqui]

I'm totally behind an electronics ban if the kid is staying up all night* though I must say I'm relieved that the scary thing your kid does with unfettered internet access is... watch make-up tutorials.

* If a. you can enforce it and b. it applies to everybody, not just the kids. It does no good to say "No devices in the bedroom and/or after 10pm" if they can turn around and say "You do it, and you're on the phone at dinner too!"

But enforcement means enforcement. It means you gather up the devices at the mutually-acceptable hour (be prepared to compromise a bit in the interest of being fair), you put them someplace reasonably secure, and you unplug your modem. That last one is probably key - no point sneaking around if you can't get online. Enforcement does not mean "You set a rule, and then when you see the kid breaking it, you get upset". Some people seem to think it means that, and that's just not fair on anybody and I don't think it's effective.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Tanaqui

[maize]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Weve had this too.  We compromised to some degree as around 9pm is usually end of screens and around time Airplane mode goes on — but listening to audiobooks or music that was already downloaded and softly enough not to impact others is allowed.   I decided less light and better melatonin production meant audio was preferable to something like reading.  We have people who find it easier to fall asleep with something to listen to.

We use our Amazon echos for this--no screen.

Still have to set a sleep timer as some of my kids will stay awake listening for hours 🙂