bethben Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 When do you just give up and stop caring? When you’ve given your health, family peace, and turned off every emotion so that you could try to give your adoptive child some sort of “good mom” and they still reject you? She’s so kind at times but can turn on you in an instant and proclaim how miserable she can make my life. Yes, she probably needs counseling, but we can afford it for one person and that person is me. I’m an emotional basket case really not in a good place. I am most likely depressed and not sleeping well. I have to finally pay attention to my needs. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I don't know anything about RAD other than what I see on the boards, but I can tell you a teenage female can be an astonishing pill even without the additional challenges of RAD, etc. I don't know where the evidence is on counseling, but if there's evidence that counseling WORKS for RAD (like it's actually an evidence-based practice and will actually statistically likely make a difference), then do it. If there's no evidence that it makes a difference, then do it for yourself, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Is it your dd11? If so, I suspect puberty is aggravating things. With my kids who are 11 & 12, I have told myself that in a couple of years, the worst will be past ... of course then it will still be hard, but I hold out hope that enough of this is hormonal that we'll end up sort of sane before I fling one or both of them out the window. I wish I had some brilliant advice. My own ideas seem to work for a day or a week and then flop. I wish you good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 It’s never been “good”. That’s the rub. I can’t look back to any period of her life where I can have hope that things will get better. It’s never been this intense, but I have absolutely no hope for a future relationship with this child that is positive. All it’s been is hard. This is more than “I hate you mom!” slamming the door and sobbing. This feels more along the lines of “I want to destroy you.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 There was another mom on the old boards who has/had an RAD kid. Was it @Denisemomof4? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said: There was another mom on the old boards who has/had an RAD kid. Was it @Denisemomof4? Yes I was thinking of her, too. I am so sorry, bethben. I cannot imagine how difficult that is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I’m so sorry. So, so sorry. Heartbroken for you. Yes to therapy for you. And respite. And massage or time for art or whatever self care thing makes your soul happy. I’m also an adoptive mom. Sending love and hugs. ... and you’re not alone. One of my best friends growing up, back in the 70s... she was seemingly well adjusted but her sister clearly was a RAD child. We didn’t have words for it then, but I have an intimate perspective on it from a sibling’s point of view. Please take care of yourself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 (((bethben))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Perhaps it would help you to think of it as detachment versus not caring? With a close relative who had mental health issues, I never stopped caring, I wanted them to be happy, but I did detach myself from their problems. I understand that it's harder with a child, but sometimes it's clear early on that more effort from mom and dad is not going to change anything. I have the unpopular view that detachment (on the other person's side) can actually help in quite a few people because overwhelming emotions are causing some of the difficulties. Even if it does not, you and the rest of the family have to survive. Triaging counseling for yourself first is not a bad thing to do. I don't think counseling tends to help much in her situation anyway. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Are you a member of the moms of kids with mental illness group? Because there’s some helpful info about how to view your child as separate from her issues over there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I think there was a mum here years ago maybe Rose who went through this? I haven’t seen her round in a long time though. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 While I haven’t gone to her yet, the counselor I picked has a child or two with RAD. Hopefully, she has coping strategies for me rather than misery loves company. I don’t want to wallow with someone so we’ll see how this goes. Detachment is a proper word. I have detached emotionally from her. She gets really mad at me when I refuse to acknowledge her rage fits and not constantly answer the same question hoping I will give her a different answer. She yelled at me in the school parking lot because I was upset she lost her retainer. She refused to accept that it was her fault and it was the fault of stupid people that made them throw out their trash. I found it in her lunch box and all of a sudden, she became a different person expecting me to forget immediately what happened. I didn’t raise her to be like this. It has never been ok to disrespect people in authority. I hate trying to correct her or protect her. She’s failing math at school and while I was trained as a math teacher, I can’t help her because if she doesn’t understand, I am the bad guy again and get berated or yelled at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippiemamato3 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I have a RAD 18 year old still living at home and attending high school (special ed until age 21.) Feel free to PM. We've been through it all. Several times. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I just wanted to send lots of hugs. My only experience with RAD is watching a close friend who had a foster daughter with RAD. It was not a good situation, total understatement. I am so glad you were able to find a conselor with RAD experience. Hugs! Rose, was the name of the other board mom. Pretty sure she is Canadian. Somewhere there is a long thread ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, mumto2 said: I just wanted to send lots of hugs. My only experience with RAD is watching a close friend who had a foster daughter with RAD. It was not a good situation, total understatement. I am so glad you were able to find a conselor with RAD experience. Hugs! Rose, was the name of the other board mom. Pretty sure she is Canadian. Somewhere there is a long thread ..... Rose in BC? This was one thread: Edited October 23, 2018 by maize 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said: There was another mom on the old boards who has/had an RAD kid. Was it @Denisemomof4? Yes, I was just trying to remember her board name. She checked in not so long ago but is not really active anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 hours ago, katilac said: Triaging counseling for yourself first is not a bad thing to do. I don't think counseling tends to help much in her situation anyway. Glad you are getting help and taking care of yourself! If you ever consider counseling for her I want to offer some hope - not first hand but I have read some studies that DBT has helped with some RAD issues. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachGal Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Neurofeedback has helped some with RAD, too. I am so sorry for what you’re experiencing, bethben. Parenting a child with RAD is not easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I admire you. You're a good mother. I think parenting a child with RAD is the most difficult and selfless thing to do in the world. It is truly unconditional love to invest in someone who may not be capable of ever becoming the person you want them to be. You're a good parent. Her choices are not your fault. Absolutely detach from her behaviors. They have nothing to do with you or your choices. You could be doing everything perfectly and making no mistakes and she would still take her inner turmoil out on you. As far as I can tell the teenage years are the worst for parenting a child with RAD. Sometime in her late 20's when her brain is finally fully developed and she's gained the perspective that sometimes comes with maturity there's a 50/50 shot she will come back and apologize and thank you for parenting her. But she may instead develop a personality disorder and never become the person you'd like her to be. If that happens it won't be your fault and it won't be her fault. It's just what is, it's just the way her genetics and life combined to shape the way her brain developed. You absolutely can learn to love her in a way that is detached from her behaviors. The two most helpful books for me to learn to deal with personality disorders are Boundaries and Stop Walking on Eggshells (it says it's for borderline, but it helps with all personality disorders and definitely helped me not only for dealing with family members with personality disorders but also when we were foster parents for a sibling group with severe RAD). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) Are you sure it is RAD? the reason I ask is that my twins have been diagnosed with RAD presenting as PTSD amongst other things, but now the Pediatrician (and the more research I do the more I am tending to agree with him) thinks that is is more likely FASD. they are currently getting assessments for all sorts of things with FASD assessments possible after all the other testing and results are collated FASD would explain the explosive anger outbursts, the problems with math etc. Edited October 23, 2018 by Melissa in Australia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Sue Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I’m in a similar situation. I try to remember that I get little breaks when my child is at school but the child never gets a break from it. I can see from my own child that depression and anxiety are also major issues, in addition to RAD. It’s always hard. I turn off my emotions and push through each day. Turning emotions back on for other relationships doesn’t work for me and that’s a whole other problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom@shiloh Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 No real advice here, just hugs and prayers. FWIW, she probably is trying to destroy you, but only subconsciously, because she doesn't think she's worth having someone to love her and she wants to prove that she's so terrible that no one could possibly stick with her through all of this. None of my adopted kids have RADs, but I've read plenty about it and have several friends who deal with it. I'm just so sorry. It must be incredibly hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Hugs to you. I know of a few people who have had to deal with this in the adoption circles I am a part of. I cannot imagine how difficult it is for you and the rest of your family. I have no advice, just wanted to offer hugs and support and a high five for taking care of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: Are you sure it is RAD? the reason I ask is that my twins have been diagnosed with RAD presenting as PTSD amongst other things, but now the Pediatrician (and the more research I do the more I am tending to agree with him) thinks that is is more likely FASD. they are currently getting assessments for all sorts of things with FASD assessments possible after all the other testing and results are collated FASD would explain the explosive anger outbursts, the problems with math etc. I don’t know for sure it is RAD. I know she was struggling with it when we first got her. If feels the same only more intense. She has qualities that could be fasd, but she has none of the physical markers. How do you even test for that? Most psychologists around here do not take insurance so again, I need to be the one who gets help right now. Even if we knew the reason, what does that change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cave canem Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 15 hours ago, bethben said: she probably needs counseling, but we can afford it for one person and that person is me. YES! This is where I missed the boat. Taking the child to therapy twice a week, other programs, and the time commitment even during residential treatment kept me immersed in the unrelenting chaos. I haven't seen this child for over two years, but a brief phone call (always hostile) brings back the racing heart and feeling of suffocation. I have made a lot of progress using self-help books, but if I could go back I would put on my own oxygen mask first. It may be (hard to say) that DBT has helped this child be a more successful young adult, but it has not helped any of us heal from the damage inflicted. While you parent this child, prepare yourself for a healthy life in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I agree with trying to detach yourself from the outcomes which you really can't control. Even a child without RAD is going to be who she's wired to be for the most part. A child with RAD more so, because she runs away faster from any help you try to give. When my kids push me toward the edge, I try to compartmentalize what I'm responsible for and what I can only hope for. I'm responsible to make sure the kids have their basic needs met. Food in the house, clean clothes, comfy bed, running water, school access. Next, that they can come to me with any emotional, social, educational needs they want help with. The rest depends on our moods on any given day. I'm a treasure trove of good advice and warm fuzzies when they are open to it, but I can turn it off as fast as they can. I just have to remind myself that they are who they are, regardless of how I feel about it. I realize this may sound cold to outsiders. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, bethben said: I don’t know for sure it is RAD. I know she was struggling with it when we first got her. If feels the same only more intense. She has qualities that could be fasd, but she has none of the physical markers. How do you even test for that? 2 FAS is the only one with a clinical diagnosis and she won't get the dx without the physical markers. FAS is fetal alcohol syndrome. FASD is fetal alcohol spectrum disorders, and they are currently working on possible diagnostic criteria. As far as I am aware, a FAS dx would not change anything because it is not treated directly. Symptoms are treated. So a child may go for early intervention, use the usual meds if they have ADD, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 17 hours ago, bethben said: When do you just give up and stop caring? When you’ve given your health, family peace, and turned off every emotion so that you could try to give your adoptive child some sort of “good mom” and they still reject you? She’s so kind at times but can turn on you in an instant and proclaim how miserable she can make my life. Yes, she probably needs counseling, but we can afford it for one person and that person is me. I’m an emotional basket case really not in a good place. I am most likely depressed and not sleeping well. I have to finally pay attention to my needs. I'm so sorry. :-( A long-time friend adopted three sons. Two of them had emotional problems; one of them was eventually institutionalized. I've known her since the babies were little, and it has been a long, hard journey. On the up side, her experiences with the foster care system and whatever other systems were involved in getting her son into a facility prompted her to go to school and become a licensed counselor; she has also started a non-profit to help those children who age out of the foster care system. I'm so glad that you are getting counseling ((((bethben))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimom Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I have a dear friend who has a son, Johnny, with RAD. One of mine has some attachment issues but not RAD. I know you know this, but I was talking to my youngest, Mary, the other day and I was reminding her that Johnny did not ask to have RAD. Yes, the Smith family has tried and tried everything and often would have day after day of h@!! but this was not something that Johnny had control over. Unfortunately, it was a product of likely a combination of his genetics and his early orphanage life where he did not get the proper care and attachment from anyone. It really helped my youngest to finally forgive Johnny. My daughter's best friend, Samantha, is Johnny's sister. (Hope I am making sense). My daughter has really been upset with Johnny over the years as she knows the havoc he has created in the house. All that to say, yes, self-care for yourself and to help remind yourself that DD11 did not choose this life. She did not choose the crappy genetic make-up and no one to care for her in her early life. Just as my one child didn't either. Every time she is a beotch be pissed at the ones that were responsible for her in her early life. And that isn't necessarily her bio parents, but her caregivers that didn't or couldn't give her enough. Maybe that will help you detach from the situation more and not blame her??? (all names are made up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 This is so hard. Was she adopted through foster care? I would check with your agency for help and also statewide groups. Michigan has a lot of support and help. For us, mine diagnosed with RAD actually had bipolar and once that was treated properly the attachment stuff came. You might need to travel for a good pediatric psychiatrist and psychologist. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I'm so sorry. I was around when Denise was sharing about her struggles years ago, and I thought at the time that had to be one of the most horrible experiences to go through. Our mother-hearts leave us so vulnerable, and then to have that vulnerability purposely used and attacked.... ☹️ 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, bethben said: I don’t know for sure it is RAD. I know she was struggling with it when we first got her. If feels the same only more intense. She has qualities that could be fasd, but she has none of the physical markers. How do you even test for that? Most psychologists around here do not take insurance so again, I need to be the one who gets help right now. Even if we knew the reason, what does that change? less than half of children with FASD have physical markers. to be diagnosed with FASD the child needs at least 2 deviations below in three of the 11 domains plus conformation that the mother consumed any alcohol during pregnancy. later today when I have more time I will post a link to a table that compares FASD with RAD, ODD, autism etc. It does change the reason as FASD is actual physical changes to the brain. If you are treating the child as actually brain damaged it makes it easier to cope with it. Plus some of the therapies are different for FASD children. Edited October 23, 2018 by Melissa in Australia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 44 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said: less than half of children with FASD have physical markers. to be diagnosed with FASD the child needs at least deviations below in three of the 11 domains plus conformation that the mother consumed any alcohol during pregnancy. later today when I have more time I will post a link to a table that compares FASD with RAD, ODD, autism etc. It does change the reason as FASD is actual physical changes to the brain. If you are treating the child as actually brain damaged it makes it easier to cope with it. Plus some of the therapies are different for FASD children. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) (((hugs))) So, so sorry for all the pain and trials you brave ladies are experiencing. I have NO experience at all, but am linking the info below from some very old posts on this board from ladies with adopted children, in case it is of help. (I had saved the info, not the links, so I'm sorry, I can't recall how many years back this was, or who the posters were.) Both ladies had children with anger and emotional issues that were directly linked to deficiencies that were correctable after several months of specific vitamin and mineral supplements. It looks like both deficiencies are diagnosed with urine sample tests, and you need a physician who has an understanding of the deficiencies to help walk you through the process. Here is the direct quotation from that old post that I had saved: "Pyroluria = http://livingwithpyroluria.blogspot.com/2010/09/what-is-pyroluria.html Histadelia = http://www.emmersonchiropractic.com/health_library/pdf_articles/histadelia.pdf Histadelia is very common with Pyroluria and is a direct known cause of ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder... It is genetic, treating that would turn your ODD kid into a sweet loving kid if its the root cause and just might help the RAD thing. I dealt with all that hell until 2 years ago when we found out my DD12 had both, totally different kid now." Blessings and prayers for help, relief, and healing for all. Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited October 24, 2018 by Lori D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachGal Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Lori, those posts are really interesting. I wonder how many people go undiagnosed. I bet a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Here is the chart I was talking about. remember it is a spectrum, so a child doesn't necessarily have all of the characteristics FASD chart.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 thre has apparently been a HUGE amount of research into FASD in Canada. so possibly look up some of their sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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