Annoying dog people

[QueenCat]

This question isn’t really directed at you personally, I’m just quoting since you brought up emotional support dogs.

 

Are emotional support dogs afforded the same “rights†as service dogs?

 

NO. Public places only "have" to allow trained service dogs (and not owner trained, but specific training). 

[Selkie]

To be fair, Lowes has a sign on the door welcoming leashed, well behaved pets. It has a pet friendly policy. I have taken dogs there, but always leashed and at my side, not wandering around or sniffing other people. 

 

I like taking my dogs in places that welcome them. But if dogs are not allowed I don't bring them. 

Only some Lowe's allow dogs, it's not a company-wide policy. The one near us has never allowed dogs, as far as I know. I haven't seen a dog there in all the years we've been shopping there.

[ktgrok]

Only some Lowe's allow dogs, it's not a company-wide policy. The one near us has never allowed dogs, as far as I know. I haven't seen a dog there in all the years we've been shopping there.

 

Oh, good to know. Ours definitely is dog friendly, the staff is all sweet on them and like I said, there is a big sign on the door welcoming leashed, well behaved pets, just like at Petco. 

[wintermom]

Yes.  Most Brits think letting cats roam is normal, but I don't see why it should be.  Indoor cat or catio please:

 

https://catiospaces.com/

 

I'm a gardener and I don't see why I have to deal with other people's cats' poo in my flower beds when I'm weeding.

 

Yes, I can see being annoyed about an animal that you think should be someone's responsibility, but there are a bunch of other animals probably peeing and pooing in your garden as well (squirrels, rabbits, hedgehog, deer, mice, voles, birds, etc.). Wildlife SOS from Great Britain was great fun watching. I know that I've got a ton of wildlife (and cats) in my yard, even though we have a very active dog. The cats do the least damage by far. The groundhogs, squirrels and rabbits do a lot more damage to our vegetables, fruit and buildings. 

[gardenmom5]

They aren't.

 

Dominance theory has long, long been debunked. Thoroughly.

 

so explain to me why the stupid dog insists on stepping on my feet?  (I've had this happened with three different dogs.  so granted it's not common - but it's not unprecedented either.)

  I'm standing still.  not moving.  the dog comes up to me j- I didn't go to it.   - and STANDS ON MY FEET!   never met the dog before, but it insists.  I pull my feet out, it puts them right back on.  repeatedly, while telling it 'no', and even pushing it away.  until i deliberately step on the dogs feet to send the message to knock it off.   the owners never do anything.

[ktgrok]

so explain to me why the stupid dog insists on stepping on my feet?  (I've had this happened with three different dogs.  so granted it's not common - but it's not unprecedented either.)

  I'm standing still.  not moving.  the dog comes up to me j- I didn't go to it.   - and STANDS ON MY FEET!   never met the dog before, but it insists.  I pull my feet out, it puts them right back on.  repeatedly, while telling it 'no', and even pushing it away.  until i deliberately step on the dogs feet to send the message to knock it off.   the owners never do anything.

 

Probably the owners rewarded it (by petting) when it did it to them. So it became a habit. 

 

I mean, I've never ever seen a dog do that to another dog, so it's not an instinctive behavior. 

 

Probably dog gets close to people, happens to step on their feet, gets petted/rewarded, starts stepping on feet deliberately to be pet more. 

[gardenmom5]

Probably the owners rewarded it (by petting) when it did it to them. So it became a habit. 

 

I mean, I've never ever seen a dog do that to another dog, so it's not an instinctive behavior. 

 

Probably dog gets close to people, happens to step on their feet, gets petted/rewarded, starts stepping on feet deliberately to be pet more. 

 

 

three completely different dogs - and three completely different owners?  these were not easy/nice/mellow bearing dogs.  hard to describe - but it was like they had chips on their shoulders.  - and they didn't want to be petted.

 

dh had a colleague with a dog that jumped on me that I wouldn't describe that way.  him,  I would describe as overly exuberant . . . . 

[Elizabeth86]

I hate that. If you have them in public fine, but keep them off me and my kids. My sister is the world's worst. My boys were super scared if dogs when they were smaller and all she ever had to offer was to tell them not to be afraid.

[gardenmom5]

just to add - the stupid dogs owners were standing right there, or at least close at hand.   the dog had no reason to come to me at all.  I didn't call it.  I wasn't threatening it's home or owner, etc.

I wish people would socialize their animals properly.

[ktgrok]

three completely different dogs - and three completely different owners?  these were not easy/nice/mellow bearing dogs.  hard to describe - but it was like they had chips on their shoulders.  - and they didn't want to be petted.

 

dh had a colleague with a dog that jumped on me that I wouldn't describe that way.  him,  I would describe as overly exuberant . . . . 

 

Without seeing it, who knows. But again, this isn't something dogs do to each other, so it has to be learned behavior in some way. It's not part of how they interact in pack situations. 

[KarenNC]

I wish the owners in PetSmart were reliably well-behaved. I've seen owners stop to let their leashed dog pee on the cat trees that are standing on the floor and for sale. One older couple had put their small dog in the cart and taken it over to the cats waiting to be adopted and were actually encouraging the dog to bark and go crazy at the cats (in the cart so it could get closer to the cats). They had pushed the cart right next to the cages and were laughing and egging him on.

Edited January 25, 2018 by KarenNC

[laundrycrisis]

I met a veteran who had a support dog with him. This soldier had been injured and been through a lot. He told me his dog made it possible for him to manage daily events that involved leaving the house, taking his kids to things, etc. Stuff most of us take for granted that we will be able to get through. His dog came from a service dog training program,and didn’t bother anyone because he was trained, he graduated, and he had a job to do. That is a real service dog. I do not agree with giving the same access to people who declare their furbaby to be a service animal just so they can take it with them everywhere.

[HS Mom in NC]

A reality check for dog owners:

I don't like dogs.  I choose not to have a dog in my life.   I hate their stink. I've never been around a dog that didn't stink and I've been around tons of them.   I'm not a fan of needy animals like dogs, which is why I have 2 cats. It's obnoxious of other people to subject me to their dogs. I don't subject them to my cats. If your dog interacts with me and I'm not in its home territory or have not interacted with it in any way, then you've failed as a pet power. Grocery stores, home improvement stores, restaurants and the like are not for pets.  Keep them home or leashed at the park/trail.   Not everyone wants to deal with your dog in public.

And for all of you who think your dog will always behave because so far it always has, you might be dead wrong.  A leashed dog like that tried to attack my youngest who was given permission by the owner to pet it because, "Oh my dog loves kids and would never try to bite anyone." She was dead wrong. She was so embarrassed by how horrible her little precious was she left mortified and in tears.  Maybe my growing up on farm made me less idealistic about animals.  Yeah, sometimes they do things outside their normal.  Go figure.

I have no problem with real service animals.

[PeacefulChaos]

I was in the bakery section of the grocery store last week when a woman walked by with a fluffy-tailed little dog on a leash!  That dog was swishing its  tail all over the baked goods on the bottom shelf as they walked by.  I was disgusted so I went to the customer service desk and asked them about health department regulations concerning non-service dogs in food stores.   They claimed it's not allowed.  So why are they letting people do it???

I know that in some stores, they are not allowed to come out and ask if it is a service dog.  I'm not sure why, but that's what it is, at least in some stores that I know of - not sure if it's a rule across the board or not.  

 

No, emotional support dogs (ESAs) are not afforded public access rights like service dogs (SD).  ESAs are permitted to fly with proper documentation.  ESAs nor SD are permitted to ride in the seats of the plane, they must lay at your feet (or in your lap if small enough), but certainly not IN a seat.  

 

Service dogs are to be leashed unless it isn't reasonable and then they are to be under complete voice control.  

 

I did not know this!  I thought they were allowed everywhere, just like service dogs.  That was the only reason I could think of for the above to be at least semi reasonable lol...

 

I did not notice this trend until recently, after my SIL mentioned it.  She was in the produce section, next to the bakery, and this girl had a big dog who was shedding a TON.  She was talking to some people and literally mussing his fur going 'SEE?  Look at how much he's SHEDDING!  Ugh!'  ummmmmmm as you are doing that the hair is flying EVERYWHERE.  IN THE PRODUCE AND BAKERY SECTIONS.  

 

Ew.

 

Personally, I've seen very few, but I know it happens around here.  I've never seen one in Lowes - WalMart and Tractor Supply, yes.  Not Food Lion.  The only one out of those that I think isn't a big deal is Tractor Supply lol.  And most of the time that's not people just bringing them in regularly, but they came to the mobile vet out front and then go in to pick something up.  I'd do that, too, probably, if I needed something and was there with the dog, rather than bring her home and then drive back out.

[Laura Corin]

Yes, I can see being annoyed about an animal that you think should be someone's responsibility, but there are a bunch of other animals probably peeing and pooing in your garden as well (squirrels, rabbits, hedgehog, deer, mice, voles, birds, etc.). Wildlife SOS from Great Britain was great fun watching. I know that I've got a ton of wildlife (and cats) in my yard, even though we have a very active dog. The cats do the least damage by far. The groundhogs, squirrels and rabbits do a lot more damage to our vegetables, fruit and buildings.

It depends on cat density. Where I live now, with three acres of garden and fields around, the odd cat is no problem. When I lived in the centre of London, any time I disturbed the soil, the next day there would be around five cat turds in that one place.

[CAJinBE]

Dogs in restaurants are accepted here in Belgium. We sometimes bring our dog to an outdoor cafe in the summer when we've been out walking and want to get lunch or a drink. The waiter usually brings the dog a bowl of water without us asking. There were a couple other times we brought our dog inside a restaurant because we were traveling by car and couldn't leave the dog in the car unattended in the heat. Our dog was pretty good but I was hoping the whole time that no other dogs would come in. I could just imagine the table toppling over or something. I don't think our dog loved it either, laying under the table in a strange place. But none of the other customers seemed to care at all. I don't enjoy it because it makes me distracted and nervous during the meal. Plus I hate the thought of touching the germy leash while I'm eating. 

 

We raised a guide dog puppy for a year and had the experience of training him in trains, buses, restaurants, and shops. He wore a special jacket and was always on a leash. No one was allowed to touch him while he was working/training. I never took him with when I was actually shopping, touching the food in the grocery store, or anything like that. Training took all my focus. I realize that wouldn't be the case for an actual blind person. 

[Laura Corin]

Dogs in restaurants are accepted here in Belgium. We sometimes bring our dog to an outdoor cafe in the summer when we've been out walking and want to get lunch or a drink. The waiter usually brings the dog a bowl of water without us asking. There were a couple other times we brought our dog inside a restaurant because we were traveling by car and couldn't leave the dog in the car unattended in the heat.

 

Dogs are allowed in some pubs with food in the UK - I think it's up to the landlord.  At our local (a couple of miles across the fields) dogs are allowed in the bar, which serves the full restaurant menu.  There is a separate restaurant room where dogs are not allowed.  This seems like a decent compromise.  Checking this website, there are a lot of pubs where you can eat with your dog

 

http://www.doggiepubs.org.uk/the_pubs.php

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have not encountered this.  Only place I know of that allows pets is Petsmart,  But they also have a vet office and grooming office within the store so of course that makes sense.  Even in there though I've never had issues (and it's not like I go there often anyway).

 

That does sound annoying.

 

 

[ktgrok]

A reality check for dog owners:

 

I don't like dogs.  I choose not to have a dog in my life.   I hate their stink. I've never been around a dog that didn't stink and I've been around tons of them.   I'm not a fan of needy animals like dogs, which is why I have 2 cats. It's obnoxious of other people to subject me to their dogs. I don't subject them to my cats. If your dog interacts with me and I'm not in its home territory or have not interacted with it in any way, then you've failed as a pet power. Grocery stores, home improvement stores, restaurants and the like are not for pets.  Keep them home or leashed at the park/trail.   Not everyone wants to deal with your dog in public.

 

And for all of you who think your dog will always behave because so far it always has, you might be dead wrong.  A leashed dog like that tried to attack my youngest who was given permission by the owner to pet it because, "Oh my dog loves kids and would never try to bite anyone." She was dead wrong. She was so embarrassed by how horrible her little precious was she left mortified and in tears.  Maybe my growing up on farm made me less idealistic about animals.  Yeah, sometimes they do things outside their normal.  Go figure.

 

I have no problem with real service animals.

 

Well, if the store has a big sign saying that pets are welcome, I'd say that it is ok to bring pets. I'm not going to feel guilty for walking with my dog (heeling at my side, on leash, not sniffing anyone/barking/etc) in a place where the owner has invited him to be. 

 

That said, no, no one should be forced to interact, as in be in contact with, a dog if they don't want to. I would not allow my dog to go over to you though. Even in check out line at the pet store I make him sit at my feet, on a very short leash. The only place he's allowed to just go up to someone and solicit petting is the dog park. 

[ktgrok]

 

Personally, I've seen very few, but I know it happens around here.  I've never seen one in Lowes - WalMart and Tractor Supply, yes.  Not Food Lion.  The only one out of those that I think isn't a big deal is Tractor Supply lol.  And most of the time that's not people just bringing them in regularly, but they came to the mobile vet out front and then go in to pick something up.  I'd do that, too, probably, if I needed something and was there with the dog, rather than bring her home and then drive back out.

 

oh, yes, Tractor supply! We do go there with the dogs, mostly because ours has a dog wash station inside, where you can pay a fee to use their elevated tubs/shampoo/grooming supplies. We've done that several times. 

 

But that's another place that specifically allows them. I've also taken them to a local cafe a few times that has an outdoor seating area where dogs are welcome...they will bring them a bowl of water  and a doggy treat, etc. Even there I request a table by the edge of the patio, so the dog is between me and the fence that encloses the patio, not near another patron. And they are required to lay down while we are there and are of course leashed. Never sniffing another person, or their food ,or barking. If they acted like that I'd ask for my check and leave. 

[ktgrok]

I don't mean to minimize the issue of terrible dog owners, by the way. I know they are out there and I dislike them too. 

[BlsdMama]

I know!  I hate it!  And Lowes.  What the heck people.  Leave Fido at home.

 

 

YES!  What is it about Lowes?!?

[Bluegoat]

I actually like having cats in neighborhoods because they keep rodent populations down.

 

Yes.

 

I live in a port town.  Rats are all over, and cats make a big difference to the population levels - most won't kill adult rats but they will put a dent in the immature population.  And they are a lot better than putting down poison or trapping.  (Dog ratters would probably be even better, but generally dogs aren't allowed to wander about enough for them to make a difference these days.)  

 

I think people kind of forget that humans didn't start co-habiting with cats and dogs to keep them as pets, but really for much more tangible mutual benefits.  Some of which still are factors - even in cities.

[Scarlett]

oh, yes, Tractor supply! We do go there with the dogs, mostly because ours has a dog wash station inside, where you can pay a fee to use their elevated tubs/shampoo/grooming supplies. We've done that several times. 

 

But that's another place that specifically allows them. I've also taken them to a local cafe a few times that has an outdoor seating area where dogs are welcome...they will bring them a bowl of water  and a doggy treat, etc. Even there I request a table by the edge of the patio, so the dog is between me and the fence that encloses the patio, not near another patron. And they are required to lay down while we are there and are of course leashed. Never sniffing another person, or their food ,or barking. If they acted like that I'd ask for my check and leave.

 

  

YES!  What is it about Lowes?!?

See I had no idea there are signs at some Lowes welcoming pets. I am pretty sure I have never seen such a sign. I am going to specifically look the next time I go.

[Bluegoat]

"Well behaved"...some people's opinion on what that means is much broader than what I feel it means. For example, the dog going to the bathroom in the middle of Home Depot. I guarantee the owner of that dog would say her dog is well behaved. Another example, the owner of the unleashed dog at the car dealership today sniffing Moxie's feet. I would bet he thinks his dog is well-behaved. So, that requirement on the door of Lowe's doesn't mean anything. We went to a restaurant one weekend for brunch. On the patio was a group of people, two of which had their dogs. Both taking turns yapping and barking at each other. Not once did either owner say anything to try to calm or separate them. They just ignored them and kept on talking. Oh and the leash was on each of the dogs but was just lying on the ground beside them. Needless to say, we requested indoor seating.

 

This is true, but I'm increasingly of the view that there is a connection between the feeling that no one, and no one's pet, should impinge themselves on you in public places, and the idea that no one should tell you how your pet should behave in public.

[bettyandbob]

I don't get bringing your dog everywhere. My family never did that when I was a kid. We took our dog on long walks leashed and kept her away from others. We were her pack and she knew it.

 

Today I have a small rescue. He has a lot of anxiety towards people but believes every dog (and cat) must be his friend no matter how much the other dog is barking. He never goes out off leash. Sometimes he slides out of his harness. When that happens he freezes. He has an extreme fear of being separated from us. I think that is a remnant of being rescued.

 

I don't take home to run errands. We took him to PetSmart once. I hated that. When another dog is walking nearby I pull him close to me/cross the street/pick him up.

 

I know not everyone likes dogs. Some people like dogs, but are allergic. I'm not pushing my dog on anyone. Doing so is not right. Not recognizing your actions is pushing your dog on others is just rude.

 

I don't believe you have to take a dog in and out of stores to teach him proper behavior. It's fine to bring a well behaved dog if allowed, but I don't think teach/maintaining behavior is a reason to do so.

 

I'm glad a couple of airlines recently announced they would be requiring more documentation for "support animals". The slippery slope has got to stop. Particularly in airplane travel, which has gotten awful without all the animals.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

The college for which I coach has fenced tennis courts. There are signs on the gates that say For Tennis Use Only. We have recently installed padlocks on the gates because locals have been using the courts as a dog run. They bring their dogs over, close all of the gates, and let the dogs run and play. I have had to clean up multiple piles of dog poop before I can hold practice. It's gross and unnecessary. The city has fenced dog parks but I suppose these individuals figure the college should provide for their needs. I have had to ask people to remove their dogs from the courts (a difficult task as I don't like confrontation with strangers) and have had arguments with a couple of them.

[wintermom]

It depends on cat density. Where I live now, with three acres of garden and fields around, the odd cat is no problem. When I lived in the centre of London, any time I disturbed the soil, the next day there would be around five cat turds in that one place.

 

But how do you know these are domestic cats? In the heart of London, or any city, I'd expect a bunch of feral cats surviving without any owners involved. The domestic cats would probably be indoors, away from the wild guys outside. That's what I would do with my pet cat. We have quite a few predators for cats in our suburban area. Our neighbour's pet outdoor cat was attacked by something pretty big. Could have been a fox or coyote. In the country there are martens, which are like a large weasel, and they prey on cats. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by wintermom

[Bluegoat]

The college for which I coach has fenced tennis courts. There are signs on the gates that say For Tennis Use Only. We have recently installed padlocks on the gates because locals have been using the courts as a dog run. They bring their dogs over, close all of the gates, and let the dogs run and play. I have had to clean up multiple piles of dog poop before I can hold practice. It's gross and unnecessary. The city has fenced dog parks but I suppose these individuals figure the college should provide for their needs. I have had to ask people to remove their dogs from the courts (a difficult task as I don't like confrontation with strangers) and have had arguments with a couple of them.

 

That would annoy me.

 

That said, I think around here part of the problem is that the city hasn't really done enough in terms of dog park-off leash areas. So there are essentially three, but you have to drive, sometimes a long way, to get to them, and they are overused and not suitable who dogs who don't like other dogs.

 

People end up making do (too-doo?)

 

Sometimes with things like this it is a sign that there is a need for infrastructure.

[Teacher Mom]

If I had a nickel for every dog owner that lets their leashed and unleashed dog run up to my children thinking they are kids and must love dogs. I too could buy my own island. I don't care how good the dog is with kids. It is not our job to socialize their dog for them. Or to impose upon us just so they can train their dog.

But it is perfectly okay to impose on me to train their kids how to approach dogs?? Where does your or my right stop? If I am in a park and a kid runs up to my leashed dog, if my leashed dog bites, she can die. If the park is for both the use of kids and dogs, where does my right to use the park stop and the parent's begin?

 

People, I get that you don't want dogs in grocery stores. I don't bring my dog there; she is not a fur baby. She is a dog. But really, have you never seen the kid in the cart who wipes his nose on his hands and then reaches for the produce or opens a bag of chips and leaves a trail down the grocery aisle? Is that ok? Is there such a thing as an emotional support booger?

 

I'm tired. I am very sorry for all of you who have run across such horrid dog owners. I wish people like that didn't have dogs. But if you have the right to use the park/store/restaurant in peace, if it is listed for dogs, so do I. If you can write about all these clueless people who interrupt your day, why can't I talk about wild children who literally put their face in my dog' face for a kiss while their clueless parents look on. Do they have the right to impose on me because it is not my job to socialize their children?

 

I am not equating dogs and kids. I have had both. We all live on this earth. Truth be told, we all impose on each other --that is why manners were invented. 

 

Bowing out now---time to take the dog to the nursing home for her therapy work. You know, to help people and brighten their day, the product of many hours of training at Lowe's and Home Depot imposing on people. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Teacher Mom

[zimom]

NO. Public places only "have" to allow trained service dogs (and not owner trained, but specific training). 

 

Not exactly true.  A service dog can be owner trained.  My daughter currently has a program trained dog but her next one I am planning on training myself.  This would deserve another very long thread of itself but in reality, a service dog can be owner trained, does not have to wear a vest and there is no required certification for service dogs.  

 

At the same time, it does not mean that every owner trained dog meets the standards of a true service dog, and there are even some program dogs that don't meet those standards as more and more 'programs' have realized there is $$ to be made off of the disabled community desperate for service dogs.  

 

But of course, the bigger problem to the general public is fake service dogs, those that know full well Fluffy isn't a service dog but they slap a vest on Fluffy so they can take her everywhere.  

Edited January 25, 2018 by zimom

[Guest]

But it is perfectly okay to impose on me to train their kids how to approach dogs?? Where does your or my right stop? If I am in a park and a kid runs up to my leashed dog, if my leashed dog bites, she can die. If the park is for both the use of kids and dogs, where does my right to use the park stop and the parent's begin?

 

People, I get that you don't want dogs in grocery stores. I don't bring my dog there; she is not a fur baby. She is a dog. But really, have you never seen the kid in the cart who wipes his nose on his hands and then reaches for the produce or opens a bag of chips and leaves a trail down the grocery aisle? Is that ok? Is there such a thing as an emotional support booger?

 

I'm tired. I am very sorry for all of you who have run across such horrid dog owners. I wish people like that didn't have dogs. But if you have the right to use the park/store/restaurant in peace, if it is listed for dogs, so do I. If you can write about all these clueless people who interrupt your day, why can't I talk about wild children who literally put their face in my dog' face for a kiss while their clueless parents look on. Do they have the right to impose on me because it is not my job to socialize their children?

 

I am not equating dogs and kids. I have had both. We all live on this earth. Truth be told, we all impose on each other --that is why manners were invented.

 

Bowing out now---time to take the dog to the nursing home for her therapy work. You know, to help people and brighten their day, the product of many hours of training at Lowe's and Home Depot imposing on people.

I hope your day at the nursing home is lovely.

And go ahead and start a vent thread about untrained kids who go up to strange dogs without restraint. I’m sure many voices will join you in commiseration! I think the two topics go together, and I’m sorry you have had bad experiences with kids approaching your dog. I don’t think anyone is this thread is upset about sharing a park with a leashed dog.

[GoodGrief]

  

See I had no idea there are signs at some Lowes welcoming pets. I am pretty sure I have never seen such a sign. I am going to specifically look the next time I go.

 

Ours has the sign. In fact, I've seen a couple of employees who have their dogs there.

[OrganicJen]

It depends on cat density. Where I live now, with three acres of garden and fields around, the odd cat is no problem. When I lived in the centre of London, any time I disturbed the soil, the next day there would be around five cat turds in that one place.

Yes that's true. We split our time between a place in the country and in the city. In the country we struggle to keep the barn cats alive due to predators, but in the city we have more than we need. I still prefer them to rodents but constant cat poop can be a real issue too.

[Sandwalker]

Agreed. I love dogs too, but the trend here of old women carrying tiny dogs into the grocery store and putting them in the cart needs to stop.

And putting them in strollers and bringing them to doctor's appointments...

[QueenCat]

Not exactly true.  A service dog can be owner trained.  My daughter currently has a program trained dog but her next one I am planning on training myself.  This would deserve another very long thread of itself but in reality, a service dog can be owner trained, does not have to wear a vest and there is no required certification for service dogs.  

 

At the same time, it does not mean that every owner trained dog meets the standards of a true service dog, and there are even some program dogs that don't meet those standards as more and more 'programs' have realized there is $$ to be made off of the disabled community desperate for service dogs.  

 

But of course, the bigger problem to the general public is fake service dogs, those that know full well Fluffy isn't a service dog but they slap a vest on Fluffy so they can take her everywhere.  

 

I stand corrected then... I thought they had to go through a formal program, unlike emotional support dogs. 

[Paige]

 

I don't believe you have to take a dog in and out of stores to teach him proper behavior. It's fine to bring a well behaved dog if allowed, but I don't think teach/maintaining behavior is a reason to do so.

 

 

 

If you have a dog that you want to have proper behavior in and around stores and public areas, you have to take them there. You can't train only at home and expect that the dog will act perfectly when you go out. You have to train at home and then train in the store. You hope that the training at home will make the training at the store easier, but just like with little kids, you should expect that the dog will need correction and won't get it 100% correct at first.

 

I know my dog. I'd like her to be able to go in public places and be well behaved but she's not there. We've trained at her school for almost 2 years now and she's perfect at school- one of the best dogs in her classes, but I won't sign her up for the class where they work on skills in public because I know she's a little skittish. As a small, attractive dog, I fear for her safety with strangers who may want to approach her when I know she still acts nervous meeting people on our walks. Her perfect behavior at school does not equal perfect behavior in other environments. Hopefully the socialization she gets at school will one day get her to the point where she can go to the class that meets at dog welcoming places, but she won't be perfect when she starts that class. I keep trying though, because we'd like her to be a therapy dog. My daughter really benefited from therapy dogs during her hospital stays and we'd like to return the favor someone did for us one day. Without dogs training in public places, there would be no therapy dogs. 

 

But our doggy class would be all about teaching the dogs to ignore people unless approached first and given permission from the handler. I agree that dogs, even therapy ones, should not approach anyone unless invited. 

[Pawz4me]

I don't believe you have to take a dog in and out of stores to teach him proper behavior. It's fine to bring a well behaved dog if allowed, but I don't think teach/maintaining behavior is a reason to do so.

 

The experts would tell you that you're totally wrong. I've yet to read anything by any veterinary behaviorist (a vet with special training in behavior) or well regarded trainer who says that dogs have a very good capacity for generalizing. A dog who is super well behaved at home or in his own neighborhood won't necessarily retain that training (or at least not all of it) in another setting. Well trained dogs are created by lots of hard work in lots of different settings. I can teach my dog to be well behaved in my home and in my yard or in a class. I can't teach one to be well behaved in a park or a pet store unless I take him to those places and work with him a bit. Proper dog training is done bit by bit, layer by layer, building on itself. Which means that before a dog goes to a park or a pet store (or any other public place) he should have received the basics of training at home and/or in a class (preferably both). But then you have to add another layer by training in parks, pet stores, etc. And that's the truth of dog training whether you believe it or not.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Pawz4me

[KungFuPanda]

I’ve seen animals in Petsmart, but never a hardware store. I can’t imagine a dog would care about the difference between these stores as far as socialization goes. I also can’t see a sound reason why a person with pet allergies should need to fear the hardware store. That’s just rude to put anyone in that position.

[Seasider]

I love dogs too, but don't get me started on people letting their dogs roam off-leash or taking dogs into public accommodation places.

 

Oh, just one. Yesterday a dog ran out into the street and I almost hit him. His human, a middle-aged woman, was carrying the leash. Unattached to the dog, see. Just carrying it.

My beef is folks who walk their dog on the street edge with those extending leashes. The ones the dogs can pull out like 30 feet. I am always afraid ones going to start in front of my car and the owner won't brake the leash reel fast enough.

 

I honestly don't mind well behaved dogs in hardware stores. But grocery stores & restaurants? Blech.

[Laura Corin]

But how do you know these are domestic cats? In the heart of London, or any city, I'd expect a bunch of feral cats surviving without any owners involved. The domestic cats would probably be indoors, away from the wild guys outside. That's what I would do with my pet cat. We have quite a few predators for cats in our suburban area. Our neighbour's pet outdoor cat was attacked by something pretty big. Could have been a fox or coyote. In the country there are martens, which are like a large weasel, and they prey on cats.

That's interesting. I've not heard of much of a feral cat problem in any city I've lived in. The cats all had collars and were well fed. It is the normal custom, in town or country in the UK, for cats to roam.

 

I know where all the cats live that I encounter in our village.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Laura Corin

[lea1]

I stand corrected then... I thought they had to go through a formal program, unlike emotional support dogs. 

 

SIL has had multiple service dogs that she has trained herself.  She is an excellent trainer.  Her service dogs have to pass a test (not given by her) and they do receive official papers.  When the dog is working, it wears a vest with a short handle, like a guide dog, and nobody is allowed to pet it.  It is very well trained and knows it's job and what is expected of it in every environment.  As she is training a dog to be a service dog, but before it is trained well enough to pass those tests, she has them pass a test to be a therapy dog, so she can take them to nursing homes and hospitals.  They have to pass a test and be certified to be therapy dogs too.  She lives in Arizona, so maybe each state has different laws regarding dog training/certification, I don't know.

 

She came to visit us this past summer. Her service dog flew with her on the plane, laying next to her feet.  She took her dog with her, wearing the vest clearly identifying it as a service dog, everywhere we went and it behave exceptionally one hundred percent of the time.  We went to the zoo one day and she had to go into the office and show the dog's official service papers in order for her to be allowed to bring it into the zoo.  They are getting strict because so many people bring their emotional support pets with them and they no longer allow that at the zoo.  In order to bring in a dog, it must be a service dog and it must have the official papers.  She had to show the papers to bring the dog on the plane too, since it was a large dog and was not crated, but lying at her feet.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Lea in OK

[wintermom]

That's interesting. I've not heard of much of a feral cat problem in any city I've lived in. The cats all had collars and were well fed. It is the normal custom, in town or country in the UK, for cats to roam.

 

I know where all the cats live that I encounter in our village.

 

The cats with collars don't sound feral then. I don't know how "big" a problem feral cats are, as only some people may see it as a problem (e.g., gardeners, animal rescue centres). Our city centre would probably see feral cats in a very positive light as there is a rat problem there.

[Bluegoat]

I’ve seen animals in Petsmart, but never a hardware store. I can’t imagine a dog would care about the difference between these stores as far as socialization goes. I also can’t see a sound reason why a person with pet allergies should need to fear the hardware store. That’s just rude to put anyone in that position.

 

It's not that a dog has to go into every store, but it has to be more than one, or even one type.  A dog that goes a lot of places will get used to them being different, smelling different, etc.  A dog who has only been to a few places will find the differences weird and will be curious, afraid, etc.  One who is used to differences will tend to take things in stride.

 

But becoming used to "different" means going to a lot of different places.

 

As far as allergies - everybody has something.  Living in society means that often, we have to put up with things - other people's food, noises, hobbies, pets, car emissions, riding their annoying bikes in the park, listening to crappy music, talking to their spouse on the phone on the bus - really, the list in endless.

[unsinkable]

I was thinking about this thread yesterday after my DS was hugging and snuggling the Head of Homeland Security (see avatar). DS hadn't seen the HHS in a few days so he was burying his face in his neck.

 

Then DS said, "How is it that you haven't taken a shower in 10 years and you still smell so good?!"

 

:lol:

[Matryoshka]

That's interesting. I've not heard of much of a feral cat problem in any city I've lived in. The cats all had collars and were well fed. It is the normal custom, in town or country in the UK, for cats to roam.

 

I know where all the cats live that I encounter in our village.

Now that there are so many coyotes here, cats that go out tend to get eaten. Coyotes moved in here only in the past 20 years or so, but now they're everywhere. Like the turkeys, though they don't eat cats, just wander around randomly blocking traffic...

 

When I was in Italy, it seemed all the cities had major feral cat problems - is that still the case? It's unfortunately been quite a while since I was there.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Matryoshka

[KungFuPanda]

It's not that a dog has to go into every store, but it has to be more than one, or even one type. A dog that goes a lot of places will get used to them being different, smelling different, etc. A dog who has only been to a few places will find the differences weird and will be curious, afraid, etc. One who is used to differences will tend to take things in stride.

 

But becoming used to "different" means going to a lot of different places.

 

As far as allergies - everybody has something. Living in society means that often, we have to put up with things - other people's food, noises, hobbies, pets, car emissions, riding their annoying bikes in the park, listening to crappy music, talking to their spouse on the phone on the bus - really, the list in endless.

Fortunately, where I live, “living in a society†means there’s a general expectation that you’ll put up with some things, but you’ll also consider the needs of others. Every third car here has a “Choose civility†bumper sticker. I’ve never seen a dog in home depot or Lowe’s that wasn’t clearly a vested service animal helping someone with a visible need and those are rare. Businesses have also finally cracked down on emotional support purse dogs. They got away with if for a while, but those days seem to be over now that society has pushed back. It’s similar to what happened with heelies.