Deciding what is fair.

[Liz CA]

I email dh the shopping list as well - and he gets everything on the list and more...;)

[eternalsummer]

Wait. What? Infertility is grounds for divorce? Right up there with adultery, abandonment, and abuse??? 

 

Well, not personally, but I was thinking of the traditional Jewish (orthodox) acceptable justifications for divorce, of which infertility is one.

[Frances]

Some can, some can't--not everyone comes with the same energy, executive function ability, mental health, etc.

 

I know nothing about Elizabeth's husband. I do know that my own husband has limited capacity to contribute at home--holding down a regular job takes pretty much everything he has to muster.

But nothing she has posted indicates he has limited capacity to help at home. If he did, I don't think she would be here asking if her desire for help is reasonable. She would know what she signed up for when she married him and continued to have more children with him.

[HomeAgain]

I think storytime would be a fantastic idea.

 

My dh works 12s, and we have a 4 day school week as well.  (Also retired in his 40s - I see a lot of parallels in our stories!).  Last year I spent the entire year as a single parent while he worked in one state and I took care of our kids along with a few others in a different state.  It made me realize exactly what I needed to function.

 

This year, youngest ds is enrolled in an activity on dh's weekend.  Dh takes him as much as he possibly can and they use that time as their time alone.  I use that time to lesson plan and take a break for me. 

[EMS83]

I email dh the shopping list as well - and he gets everything on the list and more... ;)

 

Yeah it's the "and more" bit that I'm trying to avert.  We're talking Boar's Head vs. Land O' Frost; I can't conscience it on a regular basis.  Though my budget is willfully tight, I admit.  

[Xahm]

This is an aside, but I'm sure that most people would "blow the budget" for a few weeks but then settle in as they got used to prices, figured out the layouts of the store, etc. I know my husband isn't the greatest shopper currently because he's way, way out of practice, but if he took over the shopping regularly, he'd be good in a couple of weeks, fantastic in a couple of months. There's a learning curve, but it really isn't rocket science or anything. 

[HomeAgain]

This is an aside, but I'm sure that most people would "blow the budget" for a few weeks but then settle in as they got used to prices, figured out the layouts of the store, etc. I know my husband isn't the greatest shopper currently because he's way, way out of practice, but if he took over the shopping regularly, he'd be good in a couple of weeks, fantastic in a couple of months. There's a learning curve, but it really isn't rocket science or anything. 

 

Yes, for the most part.  My husband and I have a different idea of what the budget should look like.  His is more flexible, mine is more strict.  He's the type to buy the large container of Chobani yogurt because that's what we got last time, I'm the type to grab it and the store brand, compare the ingredients, then buy the store brand that is exactly the same as the name brand because it's $3 cheaper.  He wouldn't consider it without a bit of a nudge and a lot of skepticism that it would be okay.

[Garga]

This is an aside, but I'm sure that most people would "blow the budget" for a few weeks but then settle in as they got used to prices, figured out the layouts of the store, etc. I know my husband isn't the greatest shopper currently because he's way, way out of practice, but if he took over the shopping regularly, he'd be good in a couple of weeks, fantastic in a couple of months. There's a learning curve, but it really isn't rocket science or anything.

 

This. The first few times he went would be messy and frustrating for him to try to find everything in the store. But it would settle down into a routine.

[happypamama]

I have been known to give DH a list for Aldi, along with a map of the store that shows where to find everything. Of course, Aldi is helpful anyway because they don’t have fifty sizes and brands of everything. Old fashioned rolled oats with the red label only means one thing.

[Sandwalker]

I think I may have typed that in wrong.

 

His actual work has him there for 8 hours, but you have to be there an hour and half before and an hour and a half after. You don't HAVE to according to the ones in charge, BUT it's a courtesy to your relief. It takes a while to trade off and discuss what has been going on during your shift and the time spent waiting on the carpool people. You just dont always clock out right on time. So, if he wants anyone to speak to him at work you do it. So, 8 hrs of work, 1 for that stuff. 2 hour total commute.

That is an exhausting schedule for him. Assuming he is the sole bread winner, I don't think making his lunch is a huge deal, assuming it's the usual sandwich/chips/fruit/water bottle type of lunch? If you have an 8-ish year old, s/he could do that for you.

 

That hour he needs to regroup tells me that he is exhausted. He might feel better if he eats a little something right when he wakes up. Many people have really low blood glucose when they awaken, especially shift workers.

 

(I'm a nurse who worked overnights for 12 years while homeschooling)

[KungFuPanda]

I think I may have typed that in wrong.

 

His actual work has him there for 8 hours, but you have to be there an hour and half before and an hour and a half after. You don't HAVE to according to the ones in charge, BUT it's a courtesy to your relief. It takes a while to trade off and discuss what has been going on during your shift and the time spent waiting on the carpool people. You just dont always clock out right on time. So, if he wants anyone to speak to him at work you do it. So, 8 hrs of work, 1 for that stuff. 2 hour total commute.

Wait a minute. Hold the phone. 3 extra hours of unpaid work “as a courtesy?†Is this industry standard? It seems this could be streamlined to a 15-20 minute process that is done on the clock. Do they have a union?

[8circles]

Wait a minute. Hold the phone. 3 extra hours of unpaid work “as a courtesy?†Is this industry standard? It seems this could be streamlined to a 15-20 minute process that is done on the clock. Do they have a union?

 

I understand it as 30 minutes each before & after shift, plus commute one hour each way. So 1.5 hours on either side of 8-hour shift so 11 hours. And an extra hour after work if they work out.

 

But it's not really clear.

[EMS83]

No it made sense.  1 hour there, 30 minute briefing, 8 hour shift, 30 minute (de)briefing, sometimes 1 hour workout w/friend, 1 hour home.

[Elizabeth86]

no I don't think it’s worth retiring at 48. I thin it’s unhealthy. My DH is approaching 48. I am HONESTLY not sure he would be ALIVE right now if he hadn’t quit some 13/14 yrs ago. That’s not exaggeration.

 

 

Easier posts....maybe it’s different in your state. My DH flopped around at Sargent and in charge of a dorm and E-squad leader. He had been up for Lt. seveal times. There’s a reason he and his buddies called it “Department of Corruption. “

Right. Dh has friends like this too. He is not like this. The sweet posts he scores has him literally sitting alone in an empty room for 8 hours or driving around the place in a car for 8 hours. They dont have sgt there, but he knows he doesn't want the headache of being an lt so he doesn't put in for it. Edited December 9, 2017 by Elizabeth86

[City Mouse]

When my life was that crazy, I much preferred that my husband spend the 2 hours with the kids so I could go to the store all by myself.

 

My DH spent years working night shift as a LEO, but I agree that 2nd shift is the absolute worst with small children. As others have mentioned, I was basically a single parent for that time. He got home around midnight and took an hour or two to get ready to sleep. I got up at 5am to get myself and the kids ready for work, school, and day care. By the time I got home from work at 5 or later, he was already gone to his job. It was a very hard year. We decided those hours were the pits even though many of his co-workers preferred that shift. He moved to 3rd shift as soon as he could.

 

There were a lot of days when I was very close to divorce. My thought was that I was parenting alone anyway, so why be marred. I could do,the same things I was doing and not have to clean up after home. It was a very dark time for me. I actually got to the point where I was looking for an apartment.

 

I think you and he are going to have to decide if this shift schedule is worth the sacrifices for the family. I don't think it is "fair" to expect him to go to work regularly without 6-7 of sleep, but it really isn't about what is "fair". It is about what each person needs, and you need more help.

My thought would be that if he is not going to be able to help with parenting and other tasks at home, them hire someone to help you.

[Elizabeth86]

That is an exhausting schedule for him. Assuming he is the sole bread winner, I don't think making his lunch is a huge deal, assuming it's the usual sandwich/chips/fruit/water bottle type of lunch? If you have an 8-ish year old, s/he could do that for you.

 

That hour he needs to regroup tells me that he is exhausted. He might feel better if he eats a little something right when he wakes up. Many people have really low blood glucose when they awaken, especially shift workers.

 

(I'm a nurse who worked overnights for 12 years while homeschooling)

He likes a real meal not a sandwich for evening shift. My oldest just turned 6.-

[Elizabeth86]

Wait a minute. Hold the phone. 3 extra hours of unpaid work “as a courtesy?†Is this industry standard? It seems this could be streamlined to a 15-20 minute process that is done on the clock. Do they have a union?

I made a mistake. I meant 30 min. He thinks unions are bs.

[Sandwalker]

Because I don't feel like she has a partner in her spouse and that if she gets sick, her mom has to come in and take over that role. The OP has shared about her spouses lack of help in the past and I am sorry that he's like that.

He is out of the house for what, 60 hours a week to support the family, does the car and yard stuff, put a roof on be house....How would he take over the OP's responsibilities as well?

[Elizabeth86]

When my life was that crazy, I much preferred that my husband spend the 2 hours with the kids so I could go to the store all by myself.

 

My DH spent years working night shift as a LEO, but I agree that 2nd shift is the absolute worst with small children. As others have mentioned, I was basically a single parent for that time. He got home around midnight and took an hour or two to get ready to sleep. I got up at 5am to get myself and the kids ready for work, school, and day care. By the time I got home from work at 5 or later, he was already gone to his job. It was a very hard year. We decided those hours were the pits even though many of his co-workers preferred that shift. He moved to 3rd shift as soon as he could.

 

There were a lot of days when I was very close to divorce. My thought was that I was parenting alone anyway, so why be marred. I could do,the same things I was doing and not have to clean up after home. It was a very dark time for me. I actually got to the point where I was looking for an apartment.

 

I think you and he are going to have to decide if this shift schedule is worth the sacrifices for the family. I don't think it is "fair" to expect him to go to work regularly without 6-7 of sleep, but it really isn't about what is "fair". It is about what each person needs, and you need more help.

My thought would be that if he is not going to be able to help with parenting and other tasks at home, them hire someone to help you.

He pretty much sleeps 6-7 hrs on day shift and can sleep more on evenings by not seeing us. :lol:

[Guinevere]

So your dh is involved with work 11 hours a day, at a job that requires focus, and dealing with a fair amount of stress. It doesn't matter that he handles it well; he does have to handle it.

 

He needs to sleep, 7-8 hours is reasonable at a minimum. More if he's got a lot of pressure at work, or is getting sick.

 

That leaves him 5 hours. He'd like to use 1 to work out, and 1 for regrouping and personal care. Working out is important for his job, and his physical and mental health. So is the hour when he wakes up.

 

That leaves 3 hours. Probably, another hour gets lost in little conversations, transitions, and misc things. Now there are 2 hours.

 

He can't just walk in the door and leap into bed, so 1 of those 2 hours in when he gets home, and 1 is after.

 

It sounds like he gives you his weekends.

 

I don't think your dh needs to suck it up and work harder. I think you need to spend the next several weekends setting up things to streamline them for the week.

 

You both have very demanding jobs right now.

 

It's pretty much always been that way for me. I sink or swim all week, and he helps me patch things up on the weekends.

 

Eta to add that I see he apparently doesnt have stressful jobs, but I still think he needs to work out, and he still needs sleep.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Guinevere

[Guinevere]

To address keeping the kids up late. No thanks :lol: I want those hours to myself to clean. I just want him 2 hours in the morning 4 days a week to help with school that he is so die hard we do, but does nothing to help with. And to help make his own lunch. He won't even give me feedback as to what tastes good to him reheated. I don't want to always do sandwiches because it's his dinner kwim?

Gently, I think you need to think about how you want him to change so things work for you, but you don't want to change to make it easier for him.

[bolt.]

He likes a real meal not a sandwich for evening shift. My oldest just turned 6.-

It's not a good time for your family for one member to be getting what he "likes" on a daily basis, while 4.5 other members struggle to keep even the things they actually *need* modest.

 

I think the starting point is to get everybody's needs covered, with some energy leftover -- then decide which wants-and-likes make the most sense to begin including.

Edited December 9, 2017 by bolt.

[brehon]

He likes a real meal not a sandwich for evening shift. My oldest just turned 6.-

Then he can make what he wants himself and leave you out of it.

 

Look, I work 24-48 hours at a time, depending on if I have mandatory OT or not. That means I have either 1-2 days off work before I return to duty. What that *really* means is that I have 0-1 functional days off duty before I go back to work. It isn’t unusual for me to back to work still exhausted from the shift before.

 

I generally come home utterly exhausted and barely able to see straight. My dh stays home with the kids and does most of the homeschooling. Even though I’m the sole breadwinner for my family of eight, I do NOT in any way think that that position entitles me to special treatment at home. I come home, shower, and do whatever needs to be done around the house.

 

Truly, your dh needs to grow up and step up to the plate. He helped make the kids and he can help raise them. Although I empathize with the stressful job and needing down time aspects, I am unsympathetic to someone who leaves his spouse to deal with the high percentage of kid and house work that needs to be done.

[marbel]

It's not a good time for your family for one member to be getting what he "likes" on a daily basis, while 4.5 other members struggle to keep even the things they actually *need* modest.

 

I think the starting point is to get everybody's needs covered, with some energy leftover -- then decide which wants-and-likes make the most sense to begin including.

I agree with this.  (Also speaking gently)  After reading all these posts, I still think what I thought after reading the first page:  stop thinking about what is fair.  

 

You two need to talk together and decide what is going to work best for your family now.  That may or may not end up "fair" to one or another of you, or either of you. You also have the goal of him retiring in 12 years, at the young age of 48.  If he can truly retire (full salary that your family can live on and benefits) then that may be a worthy goal to keep working toward.  

 

You said this shift is optional but you and he decided to take it for the benefits it gives despite the fact that it also makes things more complicated.  OK then. So you have to trade off other things for those benefits. This is a hard time of life. Even with only 2 kids, I had times of living like a single mom.  It's not easy for anyone.  Working long shifts an hour away from home is not easy either.  There were many times when no one had what they liked in terms of meals, schedules, free time. 

[Guinevere]

He doesn't seem to care what the leftovers are, just he wants something he can heat up. That's easier than a sandwich! Just throw some from the night before into a container and be done.

[Frances]

So your dh is involved with work 11 hours a day, at a job that requires focus, and dealing with a fair amount of stress. It doesn't matter that he handles it well; he does have to handle it.

 

He needs to sleep, 7-8 hours is reasonable at a minimum. More if he's got a lot of pressure at work, or is getting sick.

 

That leaves him 5 hours. He'd like to use 1 to work out, and 1 for regrouping and personal care. Working out is important for his job, and his physical and mental health. So is the hour when he wakes up.

 

That leaves 3 hours. Probably, another hour gets lost in little conversations, transitions, and misc things. Now there are 2 hours.

 

He can't just walk in the door and leap into bed, so 1 of those 2 hours in when he gets home, and 1 is after.

 

It sounds like he gives you his weekends.

 

I don't think your dh needs to suck it up and work harder. I think you need to spend the next several weekends setting up things to streamline them for the week.

 

You both have very demanding jobs right now.

 

It's pretty much always been that way for me. I sink or swim all week, and he helps me patch things up on the weekends.

 

Eta to add that I see he apparently doesnt have stressful jobs, but I still think he needs to work out, and he still needs sleep.

Reading this and other similar posts in this thread make me appreciate my husband, both as a spouse and a father, more than ever.

 

To me it sounds like her husband has it fairly easy during the week compared to her being pregnant while caring for three young children and him, taking care of the house, and homeschooling (per his request).

 

He works nine hours at a job he seems to enjoy and find easy and relatively stress free.

He has a two hour rural carpool commute that likely offers him time to socialize and unwind.

He gets one hour of alone time each morning to slowly wake up and from previous posts, also gets to sleep in on the weekends while she gets up with the kids.

She makes all meals for the family, including his hot meals to go and prepares his clothes in the morning (from previous posts).

He potentially spends five hours during the week working out and socializing with coworkers.

 

And some people seem to think it's just fine that he basically not help or be involved with his children during the work week because there simply isn't time. I can't fathom having such low expectations for a spouse or father.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I made a mistake. I meant 30 min. He thinks unions are bs.

  

 

He thinks unions are bs. Nice. So he likes his working conditions and the job is great? You both want him to work there, at these times? That means YOU have to pivot. Please notice that no matter what opinions various people have about your dh, we unanimously agree that you have options. You will have to take responsibility to make this setup work.

 

 

He doesn't seem to care what the leftovers are, just he wants something he can heat up. That's easier than a sandwich! Just throw some from the night before into a container and be done.

 

Exactly. That is not hard. Make a double batch of supper, portion out his lunch for tomorrow, serve up the plates, and you and the kids can also have leftovers for lunch. Or freeze individual portions for dh's work lunches. Just take out one and put it in the fridge to thaw overnight. Keep fresh fruit and string cheese or yogurt on hand, if he wants to add those. This is literally grab and go, and pretty much no extra work since you have to make dinner anyway.

[happypamama]

Why not spend a little time on the weekend making some entrees to freeze for him for his meals? There’s a thread going right now about ideas that freeze in individual portions. Or when the OP makes the family dinner, she and the children eat it at the usual dinner hour, and she puts a portion aside in a container for her husband to have the next day. That’s what I do for my husband’s lunches, except that he typically eats something for dinner one evening and then a second portion of it for lunch the next day. When I clean up from dinner, I put his lunch portion in a container. All he has to do in the morning is grab the container and heat it up when he’s ready. No sandwiches here.

[HomeAgain]

Reading this and other similar posts in this thread make me appreciate my husband, both as a spouse and a father, more than ever.

 

To me it sounds like her husband has it fairly easy during the week compared to her being pregnant while caring for three young children and him, taking care of the house, and homeschooling (per his request).

 

He works nine hours at a job he seems to enjoy and find easy and relatively stress free.

He has a two hour rural carpool commute that likely offers him time to socialize and unwind.

He gets one hour of alone time each morning to slowly wake up and from previous posts, also gets to sleep in on the weekends while she gets up with the kids.

She makes all meals for the family, including his hot meals to go and prepares his clothes in the morning (from previous posts).

He potentially spends five hours during the week working out and socializing with coworkers.

 

And some people seem to think it's just fine that he basically not help or be involved with his children during the work week because there simply isn't time. I can't fathom having such low expectations for a spouse or father.

 

Whoa. 

 

No, I don't think any of us think it's fine for all of that, but that components are fine.

 

In my head the situation would go like this:

-identify my needs, not my complaints.  If I woke up at every noise then having dh up as well wouldn't help me get more sleep, only have both of us up.

-identify how to meet those needs.

-decide what I can let go of.

-sit down and talk to dh, spelling out WHAT I need from him, and how I was going to maintain self-care.  Any discussion would be focused on the details.

 

I wouldn't bring up how dh uses his time because then it becomes a complaint session instead of getting sh!t done. 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

OP, I have a flash for you that might be insight or it might be BS.  Not sure.

 

What if you thought through all the things you do, not just in terms of whether you are enjoying them, but whether you are proud of them or satisfied by them?  And then figure out how to offload the ones that really make you want to curl up into a ball and go back to bed, the ones that you procrastinate for longer than they actually take because you so don't want to do them?

 

To many of us it seems unreasonable that your husband expects hot meals at lunch, but you've done it more or less willingly all this time--so maybe you're proud of your good cooking or of him looking good to his workmates due to your good cooking or you just like to cook.  Those are valid reasons to continue that practice, if you can make time for it in other ways. 

 

In a stressful time, beware of giving up one of the (perhaps few) aspects of your life that you actually enjoy in favor of others that you do not.  So thinking through which is which would be a good place to start.

 

For instance. when DH was out of work and I picked up a career from scratch AND continued to homeschool, we had one of those discussions about him picking up some slack.  His offer was to do SOTW.  Which to him was just reading it aloud, not looking for supplemental books or organizing crafts or field trips or correcting written summaries and related copywork.  And my view of that was, that is one of the few things in my life right now that I actually enjoy, and you're not taking it.  So I said, no thank you, what I need is help with a skill--you could do math or grammar.  He picked grammar.  (and basically didn't do anything with it except assign it daily, but it was 3rd or 4th grade so missing a lot wasn't a big problem).  The point is, be careful to offload things that you don't want to do, not things that you very much do want to do.

[Supertechmom]

About that homeschooling....if you are stressed and exhausted teaching a 6 year old, you are doing too much or there is some major learning issues at play.    Look at what skills your child needs to have to be a contributing member of society and get into college if needed.  Then step back from that and see when what needs to be taught and when it matters.    even 8 years olds don't need to write a report   .   At age 6, really nothing at all beyond their interests.   Do not go along with the public school do this and hat by this age unless you intend to put them in school.  It does not really  go along with when a child is ready to learn.  Otherwise, teach what strikes their fancy.    

 

I did this with a kid who still managed to get a full ride scholarship and another that will get at least a half scholarship.  Two more to go and guess what, by middle school, they are past their public school counterparts.   IN elementary school, they were way behind.  Don't sweat it.

 

For 6 year olds, I taught reading and math.  Sometimes did a craft.  Everything else was a pick a book about history and science and read.    All subjects were as wrapped up into each other as possible.   All into dinos, we read about them, copied sentences from the books about them, narrated sentences about them, retold stories, classified them, organized them, figured out their height and weight and compared it to everyday objects .    I rarely spent more than an hour on school until maybe 3rd and we began to step it up.  I forced mandatory quite time, clean up time, and had reading out loud time.

Co-ops once a week gave them some extra but wasn't necessary. 

 

Your oldest is 6.  Focus on reading and basic math.   Read, read, read.  Teach them to take care of their stuff, their room, give them simple chores.  honestly those skills are as important as school.  They will use "running a vacuum, dishwasher, washing machine" nearly every day of their life.  If you teach them now how to do those things and point out when it needs to be done, you will actually make your life easier. When they are late elementary, you will be way more involved in their lives and schooling.  I have never regretted the time I spent teaching how to pick up and clean.  we can now zip through the house all together and have it tidy in no time and clean in less than an hour because every kid knows how. Even the two year old can take clothes from the dryer to the couch for you.  It might take a long time but you would be amazed at what you get done while they are hauling a piece of clothing from dryer to couch.  

 

You are pregnant, your oldest is 6 and by choice or necessity it sounds like you have to operate as a single mom.  Cut yourself some slack, focus on the important stuff and remember you have a solid decade of teaching to get all the skills in. Don't burn your self out the first year trying to  overteach or impress with how advance the child is.   Focus on the long term goal - an adult who can read, communicate well (written and spoken), and has the ability to learn what they need as life gives it to them and  take care of themselves as fits their abilities.

[regentrude]

Yed, but don't you think the idea of being retired at 48 is an amazing idea 

 

Nope. i don't consider that amazing and cannot imagine having retired at 48, nor could my DH.

What would I do with the remaining 40 years?

Edited December 9, 2017 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

Nope. i don't consider that amazing and cannot imagine having retired at 48, nor could my DH.

What would I do with the remaining 40 years?

 

Yikes.  I didn't catch that the first time reading the thread and don't want to go back to find it in all the posts but retiring at 49 is highly unrealistic, in my opinion.  Many people are not even able to retire at 65 any more. 

[HomeAgain]

Dh 'retired' in his 40s, went back to work, and when he retires again in his 60s we'll have his retirement pay + two investment accounts.  Retirement in your 40s isn't enough for the next 40 years.

[MedicMom]

Yikes. I didn't catch that the first time reading the thread and don't want to go back to find it in all the posts but retiring at 49 is highly unrealistic, in my opinion. Many people are not even able to retire at 65 any more.

I know many COs(live in between three prisons and jobs are scarce here) who retire between 48-50. They start at 21, put in their 20 or 25 years, and get the h&ll out with their pension. It’s not a bad job for that. All of them, however, are working at a second career. They didn’t like being retired at 50 after the first few weeks. One of my coworkers is a retired CO and now works more hours a week than he did in corrections. Several others picked up construction and roofing jobs. I don’t know anyone who is just sitting at home.

The other thing many of them found was that retiring at 48-ish put them retiring just as their kids hit the expensive teen and young adult years. Plus, not sure if this is true in your state or not, but retirement pay here is based on the last three years of wages. So the guys work an incredible amount of overtime the last three years before they retire to bump that up, then retire with nothing to do. There’s a lot of divorces at that point. And that comes with expenses, so invariably the guys find a second career.

 

So no, I don’t think retiring at 48 is necessarily a good thing or even workable. If he had five years to go, maybe I’d suck it up. 12? Heck no. I’d be encouraging my husband to find a job with a family friendly schedule.

[marbel]

Nope. i don't consider that amazing and cannot imagine having retired at 48, nor could my DH.

What would I do with the remaining 40 years?

 

I think retiring at age 48 would be great if the retirement funds truly were enough to support the family forever and as long as the person has interests to keep them busy and involved for the next 40 years.  Lots of people have ideas of how they'd spend their time that have nothing to do with the work they do to support themselves/their family.  I know some people who retired at 50 after 30 years in high-tech, working hard and getting lucky with stock options and such.  They work in fun jobs now where money and benefits are not important.  But that is unusual.

 

I do wonder if the OP and her husband are being realistic, though.  I'm a bit dubious but perhaps prison work, due to it's nature, has very generous retirement benefits. 

[maize]

But nothing she has posted indicates he has limited capacity to help at home. If he did, I don't think she would be here asking if her desire for help is reasonable. She would know what she signed up for when she married him and continued to have more children with him.

There is no way to know how a person who is single without children at the time you marry them will actually respond to the pressures involved in raising several small children. Oh, you can talk, but often the person doesn't know themselves how they will cope with a reality they have not yet experienced. They may picture themselves as a super involved, patient parent--and when reality hits find that being around small children causes their stress to shoot through the roof and they need space and privacy more than they ever imagined.

 

Also, a parent (usually mom) who has been managing just fine with one or two kids may find that another child or another pregnancy pushes them past their coping ability and what worked before in terms of spousal involvement and division of labor no longer works.

 

Or a person who has good mental health may find themselves developing anxiety or depression.

 

All kinds of things can upset projected plans and expectations, of ourselves and others.

Edited December 9, 2017 by maize

[Frances]

There is no way to know how a person who is single without children at the time you marry them will actually respond to the pressures involved in raising several small children. Oh, you can talk, but often the person doesn't know themselves how they will cope with a reality they have not yet experienced. They may picture themselves as a super involved, patient parent--and when reality hits find that being around small children causes their stress to shoot through the roof and they need space and privacy more than they ever imagined.

 

Also, a parent (usually mom) who has been managing just fine with one or two kids may find that another child or another pregnancy pushes them past their coping ability and what worked before in terms of spousal involvement and division of labor no longer works.

 

Or a person who has good mental health may find themselves developing anxiety or depression.

 

All kinds of things can upset projected plans and expectations, of ourselves and others.

I don't disagree that circumstances can change at anytime. That's one of the reasons I posted about not viewing it as just something to get through for the next 12 years until retirement because real life is happening right now. And no one really knows what tomorrow will bring.

 

Maybe I'm viewing things too simplistically, but it seems likes it's always worked for him to leave the vast majority of childcare and house stuff to her (including doing lots of stuff for him), and even as homeschooling (per his request) and additional pregnancies and children have been added for her, his contributions haven't changed much. So I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask him to step up to the plate and be substantially more involved with his children.

 

I think I need to bow out of this thread now. I've developed an irrational dislike for a man I've never even met.

[barnwife]

I guess this is just the life my parents and grandparents lived. If my grandma could raise 6 six without so much as running water what is my deal kwim? I honestly have never cared about him not helping back before kids or with 1 or 2, but I'm going to have a new baby, 2, 4 and 6 year old and I'm starting to feel more tired. So, when all of our kids are wiping their own butts, pouring their own drinks, bathing themselves and all that it will be my pleasure to wait on him hand and foot, but I'm just too busy right now.

 

I haven't read all of the other replies, but I just wanted to say...you have a lot on your plate. I know. Our 4 are currently 7, 5 (almost 6), 4, and almost 1. So I know what it's like to be a SAHM who is HS this age range.

 

I really, truly hope you are able to implement some changes that work for you. Whether that's your husband helping more or hiring help or lowering your standards or something else will depend. And it might need to change a lot through your pregnancy and postpartum experience.

 

Also, I also hope some of your solutions lead to some self-care/you alone time. I can say that is vital to my being able to be a SAHM, HS mom.

[GoodGrief]

There is no way to know how a person who is single without children at the time you marry them will actually respond to the pressures involved in raising several small children. Oh, you can talk, but often the person doesn't know themselves how they will cope with a reality they have not yet experienced. They may picture themselves as a super involved, patient parent--and when reality hits find that being around small children causes their stress to shoot through the roof and they need space and privacy more than they ever imagined.

 

Also, a parent (usually mom) who has been managing just fine with one or two kids may find that another child or another pregnancy pushes them past their coping ability and what worked before in terms of spousal involvement and division of labor no longer works.

 

Or a person who has good mental health may find themselves developing anxiety or depression.

 

All kinds of things can upset projected plans and expectations, of ourselves and others.

 

This is so true. Family life is a whole new ball game, and our priorities absolutely can change.

 

I know when I married, I thought it would be no big deal for me to continue to work after we had children, and place them in daycare. I definitely did not want to be a stay at home parent, because I saw the difficulties my mother had re-entering the workforce. Homeschooling wasn't even a remote thought. I applied to a master's program in nursing while I was pregnant with my oldest, went through all the prerequisites, and went to the first day of classes a few months after she was born.

 

I had no idea how much leaving her would break my heart. That plan came to an immediate end. Fast forward a few years, and I was home full time and homeschooling.

 

My husband doesn't necessarily always have the same priorities as I do as far as the way things done at home. He's never been one to care about a clean home. I knew that when I married him. What I didn't realize is that my desire for a clean home would increase significantly, and he wouldn't necessarily want to jump on that train, especially with his increased responsibilities of sole breadwinner (and love of routine/ legitimate difficulty transitioning to new stages of life.)

[Elizabeth86]

Yikes. I didn't catch that the first time reading the thread and don't want to go back to find it in all the posts but retiring at 49 is highly unrealistic, in my opinion. Many people are not even able to retire at 65 any more.

He actually isn't allowed to work at his job past a certain age.

[Elizabeth86]

Yikes. I didn't catch that the first time reading the thread and don't want to go back to find it in all the posts but retiring at 49 is highly unrealistic, in my opinion. Many people are not even able to retire at 65 any more.

He actually isn't allowed to work at his job past a certain age. At 25 yrs of service you can retire at any age. I'm not surr of the cut off but I'm not sure you can work there at 25. No one said he was foing to sit on his ass. He can do a more leisurely job and we own rental properties.

 

57 I believe is the cut off age. Can't even work there.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Elizabeth86

[maize]

I don't disagree that circumstances can change at anytime. That's one of the reasons I posted about not viewing it as just something to get through for the next 12 years until retirement because real life is happening right now. And no one really knows what tomorrow will bring.

 

Maybe I'm viewing things too simplistically, but it seems likes it's always worked for him to leave the vast majority of childcare and house stuff to her (including doing lots of stuff for him), and even as homeschooling (per his request) and additional pregnancies and children have been added for her, his contributions haven't changed much. So I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask him to step up to the plate and be substantially more involved with his children.

 

I think I need to bow out of this thread now. I've developed an irrational dislike for a man I've never even met.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask him to do more either, but I'm leaving room for the possibility that he isn't really up to doing more.

 

Sometimes what is not too much for person A can in fact be too much for person B.

 

Of course sometimes person B is just clueless as to the weight of burdens falling on their spouse and/or willfully choosing not to shoulder their fair share.

 

Since I don't know person B at all I can't guess which may apply.

 

For my personal situation expecting more from my spouse isn't a practical option so I have to figure other ways to manage the burden--hiring help, simplifying, etc. As best I can tell the effort it takes for him to put in an hour of work is at least as much as the effort (psychological) it takes me to put in three hours so expecting him to put in as many hours as me truly wouldn't be fair or reasonable.

 

That's me not OP, I'm not trying to project onto her situation just offering some alternative perspectives. She sounds overwhelmed and in need of help, and if her husband is able to step up to the plate that would be fabulous. Certainly I don't think she should be critical of herself for not being able to carry everything she is trying to carry alone.

Edited December 9, 2017 by maize

[marbel]

NM question answered. 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by marbel

[Sandwalker]

He likes a real meal not a sandwich for evening shift. My oldest just turned 6.-

Maybe you could make extra for dinner, and put a portion in a Tupperware for him to take the next night.

 

Edit: I see I'm about the 10th person to suggest this :D

Edited December 9, 2017 by Sandwalker

[Element]

When Dh had that schedule I just made do as a “single momâ€. It wasn’t my choice it it was the only thing that really worked. I asked for some time for myself on Saturday.

 

Same here. Only in the past year or two have I really had a partner, and it's been wonderful! FTR, we did adjust our schedules a bit to fit Dad's as much as we could, but there is only so much you can do. As kids get older, their activities become important parts of their lives and we eventually had to schedule around those. Having 2 working vehicles at all times is necessary for this lifestyle. 

[Ausmumof3]

He likes a real meal not a sandwich for evening shift. My oldest just turned 6.-

I would cook one main meal. id probably do a big lunch for all of you before he goes then just something light and easy for the kids for tea. Alternatively you cook the main meal at tea and he microwaves it the next day. Having to cook two separate main meals would be stressful.

[LMD]

He likes a real meal not a sandwich for evening shift. My oldest just turned 6.-

That's why I'd make 12 the main family meal. I often put something in the oven before school when dh does a similar shift (he does 2pm - 10pm once every 3 weeks, with a 40min each way commute), then we eat all together and I save a portion for him to take to work.

[EmseB]

Nope. i don't consider that amazing and cannot imagine having retired at 48, nor could my DH.

What would I do with the remaining 40 years?

I think retired is a relative term. My DH can retire from the military at 39. But with four kids and 50% retirement pay it's meant for him to get another job. It's just that military jobs are mainly for those who can meet the physical demands.

[Elizabeth86]

I think retired is a relative term. My DH can retire from the military at 39. But with four kids and 50% retirement pay it's meant for him to get another job. It's just that military jobs are mainly for those who can meet the physical demands.

Yeah, I get this I'm not stupid. I never said he would be sitting on his ass aftet retirement. He will just be more free to have a job that is more enjoyable without the pressure to provide as big an income. We have rental properties for additional income. Most people that retire there end up working security or something. Guys this is not what we are discussing. We are deciding whether or not I should expect my dh to devote 1-2 hours to his wife and kids on work days or not, not his retirement or if he needs a new job or not.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Elizabeth86