Info needed: Women in ministry???

[Heather in Neverland]

I am curious as to what each Christian denomination believes regarding women in ministry. I know that sounds vague so let me be a little more specific. Does you particular denomination allow:

 

- women pastors?

- women teachers? (in a mixed setting)

- women deacons? (who are actually deacons, not a deacon's wife)

 

I'm pretty familiar with the arguments for and against...that's not the point of this post. But I have just started my master's degree in theology and while I don't really want to be the senior pastor of a church, I would like to be a teaching pastor (as in Sunday School, Bible studies, etc.). Not classes for little kids (not my spiritual gifting) but classes for adults (not just women). I also eventually plan to get my PhD in theology and teach at the university level but that will take a while.

 

Right now, dh and I attend a nondenominational church but we are fairly new there and don't have a real commitment to it yet. We are interested in investigating denominations that will allow me to use my spiritual gift of teaching without my gender getting in the way (yes, dh is totally supportive of this).

 

Any info you have on this would be greatly appreciated.

[KIN]

In the Mennonite Church USA, women can be pastors, teachers, elders, whatever. :) That is the church I grew up in, I'm now a member of a Conservative Mennonite Church (yep, that's the name of the denomination). The Conservative Mennonites do not have women pastors or elders, but do have women teachers - for Bible studies, etc.

[Heather in Savannah]

does not have women in positions of authority - neither deaconnesses or teaching, preaching. Because our church is a seeker friendly church, which draws in huge numbers of unchurched people, it was actually difficult to ascertain this information. So, you are wise to ask around before committing to a denomination.

[Ria]

Presbyterian Church, USA: women pastors, women elders, women deacons, women teachers are allowed

 

Evangelical Presbyterian Church: the denomination allows women in all those positions but leaves it up to the individual churches to decide what's acceptible for their congregation

 

Presbyterian Church of America: No women pastors, elders, or deacons as of this time; however, discussions are underway about women being deacons; I think they allow women to teach women and children but I'm not positive on this one

 

Ria ETA: Dh wonders where you are going to school. He attends Westminster Theological Seminary (part time)

[Heather in Neverland]

Presbyterian Church, USA: women pastors, women elders, women deacons, women teachers are allowed

 

Evangelical Presbyterian Church: the denomination allows women in all those positions but leaves it up to the individual churches to decide what's acceptible for their congregation

 

Presbyterian Church of America: No women pastors, elders, or deacons as of this time; however, discussions are underway about women being deacons; I think they allow women to teach women and children but I'm not positive on this one

 

Ria ETA: Dh wonders where you are going to school. He attends Westminster Theological Seminary (part time)

 

 

Thanks for the info Ria! I am enrolled at Piedmont Baptist Graduate School in NC.

 

Can you tell me what the basic differences are between these presbyterian denominations? The titles are so similar that I am little confused. Also, I am under the impression that Presbyterian follows reformed theology. Is that true of all these branches?

[RebeccaC]

There is a growing trend for something called House of Prayer. They are out side the local church. We have one in our city and I think there is one in Chicago, Milwaukee, Atlanta, etc.. Bethlehem and Jerusalem both have a HOP and so does Source in Bolivia. There is a really large one in Kansas City that operates 24/7 but not all HOPs are connected to the KC one or embrace everything that the KC HOP believes or does.

 

I am a Prayer Leader and a Section Leader at our local HOP. We have women and men who Prayer Lead, Section Leader and who are Worship Leaders. I spend between 4 and 20 hours a week at our local EHOP. Most of the folks who worship there are between the ages of 14 and 35 and then there is a group of 45 to 75 year old folks. So far our local HOP is open from 8am to 9pm M-F and first Friday of each month is a 24 hour day. I spend almost all day Friday, Monday evening and sometimes Thursday evening there. My sons love it. It is based around live music and a worship form call Harp and Bowl here is the definition from Wikipedia which is pretty accurate,

 

Harp and Bowl - its name derived from Revelation 5:8 - is a type of worship. It is music that is integrated into prayer, the "harp" representing the music and the "bowl" being representative the prayer of the saints (Christians) that are constantly going up like incense before the throne of God. In other words, prayer that is sung or spoken along with music. This type of worship is used in sustaining long periods of worship - for instance, the International House of Prayer in Kansas City has used this method of worship to sustain a prayer meeting since September 1999.

 

A common feature of harp and bowl is antiphonal singers, who use the Bible as a song book, singing and declaring the Word of God along with instruments that accompany the singers. In Harp and Bowl, the major focus is not the singers or the musicians, but the One being worshiped in such a setting. Harp and Bowl is not a new device, but has been used for thousands of years in hundreds of different settings throughout Judaism and Christianity.

 

 

 

I thought I would post about this because it is a nontraditional area where women are leading and in some cases are the main leaders. If you want more info just let me know. Hops usually also offer classes. This past fall they had classes on the OT feasts. The teaching is done by both men and women.

 

We have folks from quite a few different churches across our city and valley area who minister or who come to worship. Some folks come from Wisconsin and drive for more than an hour a couple of days a week. It is not linked to one denomination but tends to draw a lot of Charismatic, Non Denominational, Baptist, and Pentecostal type folks. In our local HOP we have folks from every economic background, many ethic groups such as Palestinian, Lao, Vietnamese, Black, Hispanic, First Nation, Messianic Jews, and generic White folks who all worship or minister together, lots of college kids and youth who spend as many hours as I do there a week.

 

I also head up our children's ministry at the Non-Denominational church we attend.

[Melora in NC]

We are Episcopalians, and the Episcopal church allows women priests, bishops, etc., etc. At our church, our priest is retiring in two months, and he told us today that half the Episcopal priests graduating from seminaries these days are women, so he wants us to be open minded about the possibility. For some reason I am uncomfortable with the idea of a woman priest (not as a general thing, really, but as my own spiritual leader). My dh isn't bothered by the idea at all though.

[elegantlion]

There is a growing trend for something called House of Prayer. They are out side the local church. We have one in our city and I think there is one in Chicago, Milwaukee, Atlanta, etc.. Bethlehem and Jerusalem both have a HOP and so does Source in Bolivia. There is a really large one in Kansas City that operates 24/7 but not all HOPs are connected to the KC one or embrace everything that the KC HOP believes or does.

 

I am a Prayer Leader and a Section Leader at our local HOP. We have women and men who Prayer Lead, Section Leader and who are Worship Leaders. I spend between 4 and 20 hours a week at our local EHOP. Most of the folks who worship there are between the ages of 14 and 35 and then there is a group of 45 to 75 year old folks. So far our local HOP is open from 8am to 9pm M-F and first Friday of each month is a 24 hour day. I spend almost all day Friday, Monday evening and sometimes Thursday evening there. My sons love it. It is based around live music and a worship form call Harp and Bowl here is the definition from Wikipedia which is pretty accurate,

 

 

 

 

I thought I would post about this because it is a nontraditional area where women are leading and in some cases are the main leaders. If you want more info just let me know. Hops usually also offer classes. This past fall they had classes on the OT feasts. The teaching is done by both men and women.

 

We have folks from quite a few different churches across our city and valley area who minister or who come to worship. Some folks come from Wisconsin and drive for more than an hour a couple of days a week. It is not linked to one denomination but tends to draw a lot of Charismatic, Non Denominational, Baptist, and Pentecostal type folks. In our local HOP we have folks from every economic background, many ethic groups such as Palestinian, Lao, Vietnamese, Black, Hispanic, First Nation, Messianic Jews, and generic White folks who all worship or minister together, lots of college kids and youth who spend as many hours as I do there a week.

 

I also head up our children's ministry at the Non-Denominational church we attend.

 

 

I have spent some time at the KC-IHOP and taken a few of their classes on worship. As part of our worship team we took classes on the Harp & Bowl and attended a few conferences there as well. Very unique experience. I do not live close to one now. :(

 

My background is from the Assemblies of God and my previous church we had women deacons and women teachers. We did not have any women pastors, but that was not frowned upon. I taught or co-taught several several classes that were mixed.

[swellmomma]

I attend a pentacostal church, the only female pastor in our church is the children's pastor the rest are all males. The women who head up the women's bible studies are just women who volunteer from the congregation and are deemed to be "worthy" enough to actually do so.

[Joanne]

I am a Christian of the Presbyterian, USA variety.

 

I am an Elder, Deacon and Teacher (of mixed groups).

 

I am considering as my later in life career Pastorship.

 

The Pastor who married me (and my Baptist husband) is a woman. ;)

 

That should answer your questions, if not directly.:D

[Heather in Neverland]

The Pastor who married me (and my Baptist husband) is a woman. ;)

 

 

 

Me too!! We didn't have a female marry us to make a "statement" or anything. Just at the time, we weren't members of any church and so the church we married in had the associate pastor marry us and it was a female. I never even thought twice about it but my mom almost had a heart attack! :lol:

[Alenee]

My understanding through my experience is that you'd probably want to steer clear of any Baptist churches. I go to a Baptist church and our pastor's wife is "pastor of Christian education", however she does not teach men, imu. We do have deaconesses but they are not in a 'leadership' role in the case of leading men.

 

eta: After re-reading your post, I realized you didn't need/want opinion. :)

Edited October 27, 2008 by Alenee

[Plaid Dad]

This probably doesn't affect you directly, but for information's sake: The Sacrament of Holy Orders (ordained ministry) in the Catholic Church is open only to men. Women can serve as teachers and leaders in many other capacities, however.

[momofkhm]

Both will allow you to do what you want - teach mixed classes, deacon, even pastor a church.

 

We have a deacon right now at my parish. I've attended a parish that had a woman pastor. My parents church has a female pastor. I've taught a mixed class of adults, and I don't have the training that you have.

[TravelingChris]

Someone asked about the different Presbyterian Churches. All of those mentioned and reformed and Calvinist. There is one other that is less Calvinistic but less well-known and that is the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.

 

The differences in Presbyterian churches are mostly with interpretation of the Bible and social policies.

 

PC-USA is the largest Presbyterian denomination, or they were until recently. There has been a contentious battle between those who want to only ordain celibate or faithfully married, and those who think others who are not the above can be ordained. There are conservative churches in the denomination still but less and less of them as a result.

 

EPC is where most of the former PC-USA churches have gone. It is not as conservative as PCA but is for traditional marriage or celibacy as one of the requirements of ordination. They do have women pastors and Sunday school teachers but individual churches may not want one.

 

PCA is the most conservative of the three larger Presbyterian churches. As someone already stated, they wouldn't have women teachers or pastors except for teaching children or other women.

 

We switch back and forth between Presbyterian and Methodist churches depending on where we are stationed and which particular churches are near us. I am at heart more at home with Presbyterian theology and Dh is probably closer to Methodism. United Methodist Church has women pastors and teachers.

[torikei]

I belong to the Methodist church. My last 3 pastors have been women. Women are welcome on all committees and as teachers of all age groups.

 

Tori

[Chris in VA]

Dh is a priest in the Episcopal church. Just wanted to add to Melora and momofkhm's posts that, although women are admitted to all holy orders, there are a few dioceses (groups of churches in the same area--for example, Ft. Worth) that do not ordain women. It's a bone of contention in some places.

I doubt you'd be interested in the Episcopal church now, anyway!;)

[Beth in OH]

I have spent some time at the KC-IHOP and taken a few of their classes on worship.

 

I've never been to IHOP, but I did Mike Bickel's online series on Song of Songs. Very powerful stuff!

 

I am a member of a Vineyard church. Women are pastors, teachers, and leaders. Our church licenses pastors for one year terms until there is a proven ministry. Only then is a pastor ordained.

[LibrarianMom]

I was raised in the Christian Church/Churches of Christ (not Disciples of Christ). I now work in one of their colleges/seminaries. It really depends from church to church in our movement as each church governs itself. I've been to some churches that had women elders and deacons and others that would not allow that in a million years. I don't think any of the churches would allow a full-time woman preaching minister although we sometimes allow a woman to preach. Children's minister, youth minister, worship minister, and Christian education minister are OK but depend on the church. Our church does have several women who teach or share teaching for Sunday School classes, mid-week studies, and small groups. I taught a class on prayer several years ago that was for a mixed group.

[Melinda in VT]

The chuch I attend belongs to the United Church of Christ. We allow women in all positions. Our pastor is a woman, as is the pastor of the UCC church in the next town.

[Sunshine State Sue]

We belong to Unity, which is a non-denominational, liberal Christian church. In my husband's ministerial class of 2004, the women outnumbered the men about 4 to 1.

[OnTheBrink]

Non-denominational, IFCA church.

 

No women pastors.

No women elders.

No women teachers of mixed groups, unless it's children. For example, the VBS and Sunday School directors are women.

There are deaconesses, but deaconesses have no leadership; they are servants within the church. They are not deacon's wives, necessarily.

[3lilreds in NC]

I go to a nondenominational church that belongs to the Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches. I am not 100% positive about this, but I'm pretty sure:

 

No women pastors.

 

No women elders/deacons.

 

Women can teach in a mixed setting, but I'm not sure that's always true. We have a Marriage Matters course that is taught by men and women, and it's obviously a mixed audience. Generally, if there is a mixed Bible study, I believe they want a man to lead. Our small group is led by men - my dh is currently the leader. If it's a mixed group, they want a man to teach.

[In the Rain]

A few years ago, we attended a Free Methodist church. I'm pretty sure they allowed women in all of the roles you mentioned.

[RebeccaC]

I've never been to IHOP, but I did Mike Bickel's online series on Song of Songs. Very powerful stuff!

 

I am a member of a Vineyard church. Women are pastors, teachers, and leaders. Our church licenses pastors for one year terms until there is a proven ministry. Only then is a pastor ordained.

 

 

My sons are doing his David series and I have done quite a few of his series. There is a web site on line where you can get several of his series for free as down loads. If you would like the link pm me :001_smile: and I'll send it along.

[T'smom]

I usually just lurk, but I've got to interject that some "flavors" of Baptist churches allow women pastors. I grew up in an American Baptist Church (I'd still go to one if there were any around here) that allowed women to be associate pastors.

[Reesegirl]

My husband is a pastor in the Church of the Nazarene. Women can become senior pastors...there is a female senior pastor on our distric and we even have a woman as a general superintendent on the general church level. Many of our oldest churches were started by women. My dd is at Northwest Nazarene University in Idaho and had a woman Biblical Lit teacher...so as you can see our denomination welcomes women in roles of leadership.

[dawn of ns]

I was Anglican and women are allowed in any role. In fact, the Bishop of our diocese was a woman.

 

I'm fairly sure it's the same with the Evangelical Lutherans as well.

[Retired]

I also mention Nazarene have always welcome women in ministry. I do tend to see husband/wife preaching teams in our region. The ladies have always been able to teach men/women and hold board and director type activities. I just have not seen one who has been a head pastor without it being a husband/wife team. This is not a Nazarene belief but more a regional preference

[Emily in FL]

Women are allowed to be pastors, lay leaders, teachers, etc. There is even a woman who is a general superintendent now.

[Ellie]

Assemblies of God allow women to hold all of those positions. However, it is up to the individual fellowships as to whether women can actually be elected to the deacon/trustees (they don't actually elect/appoint "elders"). Here's a link to the position paper regarding women in ministry.

[GailV]

I usually just lurk' date=' but I've got to interject that some "flavors" of Baptist churches allow women pastors. I grew up in an American Baptist Church (I'd still go to one if there were any around here) that allowed women to be associate pastors.[/quote']

 

My SIL considered being ordained in the American Baptist church, as a matter of fact. She decided to go United Methodist, though.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I have attended churches of Christ most of my life and and have never been in or heard of any (worldwide) that allowed women to be ministers, elders, deacons. I have only heard of some rare instances of women teaching mixed adult classes.

[chaik76]

Orthodox have every position except priest and deacon open to women. One of the most famous of all the women teachers in the Orthodox Church is Frederica Mathewes-Green.

I was just coming on to post the same info!

[HSMom2One]

Churches based in Wesleyan theology allow women to serve in any role they feel called to serve in, including ordained elder, senior pastor, deacon, teacher, etc. These denominations include some that have already been mentioned, Nazarene and Free Methodist, and Methodist. The group also includes Salvation Army, Church of God (Anderson), Friends (Quaker), Wesleyan and Brethren in Christ.

 

For some great reference material regarding this, I'm including this link to the website of the Wesleyan Holiness Women's Clergy group that I am involved with. They are a fantastic group of female pastors.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Cindy in C-ville]

Hi Heather. We're with the Baptist General Conference, now called Converge Worldwide (http://www.convergeww.org/'>http://www.convergeww.org/'>http://www.convergeww.org/'>http://www.convergeww.org/) Our district is MidAtlantic (http://www.convergeww.org/) and we're in Central VA. Each church generally determines where they stand on these different issues. There are a few churches with women who are senior pastors, plenty who have women on staff, some who have women as elders and deacons. My dh is the pastor at our church (http://www.evergreenchurch.com/). I teach seminars that include women and men and on Mother's Day, dh gives me the pulpit to speak to the women and invite the men to listen in. He makes it clear that I am operating under his and the elders' covering. I also lead a ministry team that includes men and women.

 

Currently the women we have on staff are a part-time music leader asst. and a part-time children's ministry person. We are open to the idea that I could move into a staff position at some point which could include some of the things you are talking about, but that's down the road. I probably wouldn't be called "pastor," b/c we see no need to be contentious just to make a point. And I belive that although the Bible doesn't rule out women as pastor and elders, it's kind of fuzzy. I do believe it's clear that there are women in leadership and teaching positions, as well as "elder" women who mentor "younger" women.

 

I do believe it is hard for women who have gifts of teaching, speaking, and in leadership to figure out our "role" in the church. We've had some bumps along the way, but for now, it's working. I am able to use my gifts in a way that fits with our theology. I would LOVE to go to seminary as well. I would love to take Greek, Hebrew, courses in Biblical exegesis, but also in counseling and leadership. We investigate this periodically, but my plate is too full right now to tackle something else.

 

Where is NC are you? We're from NC orginally and still have family on the Coast and in the Raleigh area. Dh leads a team of pastors in our denomination that includes the VA and NC area. Let me know if you are intrigued, want more information, etc.

 

What are your theological convictions that would rule out various denominations? For us, we're reformed, baptistic, and not cessastionists.

[Heather in Neverland]

Where is NC are you? We're from NC orginally and still have family on the Coast and in the Raleigh area. Dh leads a team of pastors in our denomination that includes the VA and NC area. Let me know if you are intrigued, want more information, etc.

 

What are your theological convictions that would rule out various denominations? For us, we're reformed, baptistic, and not cessastionists.

 

Actually, I am currently in Michigan. I just don't know how to change my screen name. :D But we plant o move back to NC as soon as the Lord allows. As for theological leanings...my biggest factor is that I am not reformed/calvinistic or catholic. Other than that, I am open to ideas as I feel the lines between most christian denominations are pretty thin and not something I would hang my salvation on, ya know?

[Cindy in C-ville]

Hi Heather! Although we (dh and I) are reformed, we don't like the divisiveness or intellectual pride that often comes with this distinction. Our denomination is not "reformed" by definition. I believe that when we see Jesus face to face, we ALL will be corrected in our theology. I am convinced that NOBODY has it completely right. When Jesus returns, He will unify the Bride and bring us into full understanding of how the Kingdom really operates. Most important during this age is to keep the main thing the main thing (eyes on Jesus), operate in grace, and live according to our convictions.

[TXMomof4]

I was raised in the Christian Church/Churches of Christ (not Disciples of Christ). I now work in one of their colleges/seminaries. It really depends from church to church in our movement as each church governs itself. I've been to some churches that had women elders and deacons and others that would not allow that in a million years. I don't think any of the churches would allow a full-time woman preaching minister although we sometimes allow a woman to preach. Children's minister, youth minister, worship minister, and Christian education minister are OK but depend on the church. Our church does have several women who teach or share teaching for Sunday School classes, mid-week studies, and small groups. I taught a class on prayer several years ago that was for a mixed group.

 

I'm Church of Christ also and the general teaching is that women don't serve in leadership capacity over men. However, women are known to teach in small group settings if it's fine with all those involved. Those groups are few and far between in my area though.

[Kanga]

I only have a minute so I have not read through all of the posts to see if someone has already told you this , but the Nazarene Church has female pastors. They are Wesleyan, I believe they split off from the Methodists during the holiness movement.

 

Sorry for the post and run.

 

-Ann

[PariSarah]

The United Methodist Church does not consider gender a factor in any of its appointments. Qualified and gifted women can serve in any capacity in which qualified and gifted men can serve.

 

While there are some churches that "don't believe in that sort of thing," we have episcopal appointment (the bishop decides where you go) for elders (pastors), so it is up to individual bishops to decide whether they will or will not respect a local church's disinclination to have a female pastor. (Since the episcopacy is far, far to the left of most Methodist churches, you can imagine how that discretion is usually exercised.) ;)

 

There are other Methodist and Wesleyan denominations; I am not aware of any that explicitly restrict ordination (or any other authoritative office) to men.

 

Feel free to PM me if you have more detailed questions, whether about theology or church polity.

[mommaduck]

If you are wanting to be a pastor of any kind, then avoid any and all Reformed churches with the exception of the PCUSA...

 

But then, if you were any of those, you wouldn't even be considering it :)

[Carol in Cal.]

ELCA--Allows women in all capacities, including pastor and bishop. Tends toward a liberal/mainline Protestant POV on Scripture.

 

LCMS--Has women as schoolteachers, deaconesses, DCE's, and school principals. Does not allow women to be pastors or to take on any pastoral roles, although how that plays out varies by congregation. Some churches allow women elders, and some do not. Generally the 2-3 highest officers in the congregation cannot be women. Has a generally conservative and in places borderline evangelical view of Scripture and worship.

 

WELS--Has no women in any positions of decision making, excluding them from voting, from the pastoral office, from all official positions. Has women school teachers--I'm not sure whether they allow women to be school principals or not. Has a markedly conservative view of Scripture.

[Heather in Neverland]

Hi Heather! Although we (dh and I) are reformed, we don't like the divisiveness or intellectual pride that often comes with this distinction. Our denomination is not "reformed" by definition. I believe that when we see Jesus face to face, we ALL will be corrected in our theology. I am convinced that NOBODY has it completely right. When Jesus returns, He will unify the Bride and bring us into full understanding of how the Kingdom really operates. Most important during this age is to keep the main thing the main thing (eyes on Jesus), operate in grace, and live according to our convictions.

 

Can I get an amen? That's exactly how I feel. My favorite quote on this is that Jesus is coming back for a bride...not a harem.

[chai]

I want to add Evangelical Covenant to your list that does allow women in all aspects of leadership. I've also aware of many Baptist General Conference and American Baptist churches that have women in all leadership positions.

[QuirkyKapers]

In the Mennonite Church USA, women can be pastors, teachers, elders, whatever. :)

 

Yep-

I attend a Mennonite Church in Ohio that is part of Mennonite Church USA. We actually have a co-pastor husband/wife team as well as a women elder. We also have women who lead worship. My gifts are teaching, shepherding and adminstration. I have been blessed that I can teach adult Sunday school classes and have been able to preach several times when it was needed. My husband is wonderfully supportive so that it a big plus:001_smile:

[jejily]

You never know which churches will "buck" tradition and hire a female for a leadership position.

 

Our Southern Baptist church in Virginia hired a female for a pastor position (not senior pastor). To avoid freaking out the "old timers" they gave her the title of "minister" (whereas the man in the position before her arrival was called pastor), but she has all the same responsibilities (and pay and benefits) that come with the title "pastor."

 

So, you just never know.

 

 

BTW... she was the best thing to happen to that church in a long, long time. Even the hard-core traditionalists were won over once they saw the spectacular changes she made and the growth of the ministry under her leadership.

[Heather in Neverland]

You never know which churches will "buck" tradition and hire a female for a leadership position.

 

Our Southern Baptist church in Virginia hired a female for a pastor position (not senior pastor). To avoid freaking out the "old timers" they gave her the title of "minister" (whereas the man in the position before her arrival was called pastor), but she has all the same responsibilities (and pay and benefits) that come with the title "pastor."

 

So, you just never know.

 

 

BTW... she was the best thing to happen to that church in a long, long time. Even the hard-core traditionalists were won over once they saw the spectacular changes she made and the growth of the ministry under her leadership.

 

That is very encouraging...thanks!