Your thoughts on Colin Kaepernick and the National Anthem: a poll

[poppy]

He is not really generating all that much negative publicity for his team.  I mean, more than 50% of the people polled here are OK with it, and this isn't exactly San Francisco. 

 

It just makes some people really mad.  Eh.   I'd bet for every Facebook meme bashing the guy, there are just as many people rolling their eyes at the bashers. 

 

I saw one that compared him with Glen Coffee with a sneers at how much money Colin K. makes. Clen Coffee sounds pretty incredible. But really.  20+ NFL players have multiple criminal convictions............ let's sneer at the people with DUIs and spousal abuse, not the guy whose politics you don't like.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Here's a website for children that might help with comprehension. Scroll down to the part that says "Meaning of Star Spangled Banner Lyrics Verse 3."

 

 

Hhhhmmmm...looking at the key lines in verse 3 again:

 

No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave

 

I think it is fair to question the interpretation of that website.

It makes sense that the use of "hireling" references the use of mercenaries by the British.  It certainly seems to be an enemy of some sort, as it would seem odd to be celebrating that an ally would be fleeing in terror or heading to the gloom of the grave

 

Which should then cause us to question whether that site's interpretation of "slave" makes sense.  Would Key really be celebrating impressed U.S. citizens fleeing or dying?  That doesn't seem to male logical sense.  And it would seem odd to bring up the issue of impressed sailors in the same verse that the footsteps of the British being washed away with blood while their mercenaries flee and/or die.

 

Meanwhile, we do know that the Americans had a strong dislike for slaves who escaped to back the British, and it would seem more likely that escaped slaves would be fleeing in terror/facing death in the event of a loss by the British.  It would also make sense that Key would be gloating at this prospect as well.

 

I also don't think a summary from a site aimed at children is likely to be the best interpretation of the verse.

[MercyA]

A few updates:

 

Kaepernick was joined by teammate Eric Reid last night in taking a knee during the National Anthem rather than sitting. Kaepernick: "As far as taking a knee tonight, Eric [Reid] -- as well as myself -- had a long conversation with Nate Boyer, who is a military vet. And we were talking to him about, 'How can we get the message back on track? And not take away from the military. ... But keep the focus on what the issues really are.' As we talked about it, we came up with taking a knee because there are issues that still need to be addressed and there was also a way to show more respect for the men and women that fight for this country. Once again, I'm not anti-American. I love America. I love people. That's why I'm doing this. I want to help make America better. I think having these conversations helps everybody have a better understanding of where everybody is coming from. Those conversations are important to have because the better we understand each other, the better we know each other, the better we can deal and communicate with each other which ultimately makes everyone, puts everybody in a better position."

 

Teammate Reid: "He saw that it hurt people that he sat during the national anthem. There are people that actually put their lives on the line for this country to give us freedom. We talked for a couple days, to figure out a way to be more respectful of those people and the national anthem of the country while still maintaining the stance that there needs to be things done about these issues. And it was just today actually, a couple hours before the game, we were like, hey, why don't you take a knee and that way you're not isolated from the team, you're not sitting down during the national anthem, you're just changing your physical position, being more respectful to those people while still maintaining your stance on these issues. Nate agreed with that. That's how it happened."

 

Kaepernick also pledged to donate his first million this year to charities that help communities in need. "I've been very blessed to be in this position and to be able to make the kind of money I do. And I have to help these people. I have to help these communities. It's not right that they're not put in a position to succeed or given those opportunities to succeed."

Edited September 2, 2016 by MercyA

[MercyA]

Here is the transcript of an excellent Q&A session with Kaepernick, covering a lot of ground. He goes into detail about his thought processes and motivations.

 

Some posters have suggested that Kaepernick has not faced racism himself, which is not true: "Q: Have you ever been pulled over unjustly or had a bad experience in that regard. K: Yes. Multiple times. I mean, I’ve had times where one of my roommates was moving out of a house in college and because we were the only black people in that neighborhood, the cops got called and all of us had guns drawn on us. I mean, came in the house without knocking, guns drawn, on one of my teammates and roommates. So I have experienced this. People close to me have experienced this. This isn’t something that’s a one-off case here, a one-off case there."

[MercyA]

In a side note, I had someone tell me her son (who is in the Air Force, I think, and good on him) was fighting for my right to eat a vegan diet.  (I was looking for preschools for DD4, and this one provides lunch, so I said we ate a mainly vegan diet and I'd have to send food with her).  I thought, where in the world are you not allowed to eat a vegan diet?

 

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh out loud. Who exactly is threatening to invade us and force us to eat McD's?  :lol:

[Laurie4b]

It's really hard for me to understand why anyone who respects what the American flag stands for would have trouble with someone expressing their point of view in a peaceful manner, even if that form of speech is expressed with regard to the flag.  This troubles me a great deal. I see an increased willingness to come down on free speech. 

 

His employers can make their own decisions. It's a free country after all. I don't think they should fire him, but if he "hurts their brand" or damages their business by his actions, he has a right to do so and they have a right to protect their business. 

 

Patriotism isn't a rah-rah support of country. True patriotism requires that we try to fix what we see is wrong with it. We may see those "wrongs" from different perspectives. You may see something as a wrong that I see as something that is good and vice versa. It's a democracy and our ideas get to compete. 

 

 

 

 

[FriedClams]

He'll be cut because he's a bad football player. IMHO, he's welcome to protest any way he wants. My husband and I served in the military for years to preserve people's right to speak out, burn the flag, and generally do dumb things. But these "celebrities" doing dumb/offensive/inappropriate things in the name of politics/hot issue/protest and then not expecting any negative fallout, is laughable. It's like the elf ear thread. Do it. Feel free. It's a free country. But don't expect to ever get a real job or be surprised when someone else exercises their free speak to say they disagree with what you're doing.

[Pam in CT]

re privilege insulating racism

Here is the transcript of an excellent Q&A session with Kaepernick, covering a lot of ground. He goes into detail about his thought processes and motivations.

 

Some posters have suggested that Kaepernick has not faced racism himself, which is not true: "Q: Have you ever been pulled over unjustly or had a bad experience in that regard. K: Yes. Multiple times. I mean, I’ve had times where one of my roommates was moving out of a house in college and because we were the only black people in that neighborhood, the cops got called and all of us had guns drawn on us. I mean, came in the house without knocking, guns drawn, on one of my teammates and roommates. So I have experienced this. People close to me have experienced this. This isn’t something that’s a one-off case here, a one-off case there."

 

Thanks for that transcript.

 

 

The idea that wealth or position insulates against racism is rather baffling, since it's simply not consistent with the testimony of many people who are in the actual position to know.  

 

Earlier this summer, South Carolina GOP Senator Tim Scott addressed the Senate about his own experiences. 

 

...As an elected official... I’ve been stopped seven times by law enforcement officers. Not four, not five, not six, but seven times in one year as an elected official. Was I speeding sometimes? Sure. But the vast majority of the time, I was pulled over for nothing more than driving a new car in the wrong neighborhood or some other reason just as trivial....

 

I also think about the experiences of my brother who became a command sergeant major in the United States Army, the highest rank for an enlisted soldier. He was driving from Texas to Charleston, pulled over by a law enforcement officer who wanted to know if he had stolen the car he was driving because it was a Volvo. I do not know many African-American men who do not have a very similar story to tell, no matter the profession, no matter their income, no matter their disposition in life. ...

 

Imagine the frustration, the irritation, the sense of a loss of dignity that accompanies each of those stops. Even here on Capitol Hill, where I’ve had the great privilege of serving the great people of South Carolina as a United States congress member and as a United States Senator for the last six years. For those who don’t know, there are a few ways to identify a member of Congress or Senate. Well, typically when you’ve been here for a couple of years, the law enforcement officers get to know your face and they just identify you by face. But if that doesn’t happen and you have a badge, a license that you can show them, it shows that you’re a Senator or this really cool pin. So it’s easy to identify a U.S. Senator by our pin. I recall walking into an office building just last year after being here for five years on the Capitol, and the officer looked at me, a little attitude and said, “The pin, I know. You, I don’t. Show me your ID.†I’ll tell you, I was thinking to myself, either he thinks I’m committing a crime — impersonating a member of Congress — or, or what? Well, I’ll tell you that later that evening I received a phone call from his supervisor apologizing for the behavior. Mr. President, that is at least the third phone call that I’ve received from a supervisor or the chief of police since I’ve been in the Senate.

 

So while I thank God I have not endured bodily harm, I have, however, felt the pressure applied by the scales of justice when they are slanted. I have felt the anger, the frustration, the sadness and the humiliation that comes with feeling like you’re being targeted for nothing more than being just yourself.....

 

...I simply ask you this: recognize that just because you do not feel the pain, the anguish of another, does not mean that it does not exist. To ignore their struggles, our struggles, does not make them disappear. It simply leaves you blind and the American family very vulnerable. Some search so hard to explain away injustice that they are slowly wiping away who we are as a nation. But we must come together to fulfill what we all know is possible here in America: peace, love, and understanding. Fairness. 

 

 

The full text of the address is included in this article.

[poppy]

A few updates:

 

Kaepernick was joined by teammate Eric Reid last night in taking a knee during the National Anthem rather than sitting. Kaepernick: "As far as taking a knee tonight, Eric [Reid] -- as well as myself -- had a long conversation with Nate Boyer, who is a military vet. And we were talking to him about, 'How can we get the message back on track? And not take away from the military. ... But keep the focus on what the issues really are.' As we talked about it, we came up with taking a knee because there are issues that still need to be addressed and there was also a way to show more respect for the men and women that fight for this country. Once again, I'm not anti-American. I love America. I love people. That's why I'm doing this. I want to help make America better. I think having these conversations helps everybody have a better understanding of where everybody is coming from. Those conversations are important to have because the better we understand each other, the better we know each other, the better we can deal and communicate with each other which ultimately makes everyone, puts everybody in a better position."

 

Teammate Reid: "He saw that it hurt people that he sat during the national anthem. There are people that actually put their lives on the line for this country to give us freedom. We talked for a couple days, to figure out a way to be more respectful of those people and the national anthem of the country while still maintaining the stance that there needs to be things done about these issues. And it was just today actually, a couple hours before the game, we were like, hey, why don't you take a knee and that way you're not isolated from the team, you're not sitting down during the national anthem, you're just changing your physical position, being more respectful to those people while still maintaining your stance on these issues. Nate agreed with that. That's how it happened."

 

Kaepernick also pledged to donate his first million this year to charities that help communities in need. "I've been very blessed to be in this position and to be able to make the kind of money I do. And I have to help these people. I have to help these communities. It's not right that they're not put in a position to succeed or given those opportunities to succeed."

 

Sounds like a thoughtful guy trying to do what he feels is the right thing. 

Not an "idiot" or "dumb".  I don't understand that reaction.  Why is it dumb?

 

[vonfirmath]

He has the right to do this. I don't agree or support and frankly think the rationale is ridiculous ,but I will defend his free speech.

 

I also think people who disagree with him have the right to express their view. This is America.

 

Agreed. And the right to express your view does not mean you will not have consequences for it. Which means, a company/non-government owned sports team, means you can be cut from your job if you are not portraying an image they want portrayed for a member of their organization.  And then customers can decide whether to support the company or not with this new idea on what image they want to project.

 

Free speech does not mean no consequences. It just means the government can not ban it or put people in jail. I do not think this football player should be jailed for his speech.

 

[Scarlett]

re privilege insulating racism

 

Thanks for that transcript.

 

 

The idea that wealth or position insulates against racism is rather baffling, since it's simply not consistent with the testimony of many people who are in the actual position to know.  

 

Earlier this summer, South Carolina GOP Senator Tim Scott addressed the Senate about his own experiences. 

 

 

The full text of the address is included in this article.

 

 

That is all shocking to me.  I mean, I KNOW it happens...but to read these people's stories is still just shocking to me.

[Scarlett]

Sounds like a thoughtful guy trying to do what he feels is the right thing. 

Not an "idiot" or "dumb".  I don't understand that reaction.  Why is it dumb?

 

 

 

You lost me. I don't think Mercy said it was dumb.  What did I miss?

[Pam in CT]

re experiences of real people encountering racism today

 

That is all shocking to me.  I mean, I KNOW it happens...but to read these people's stories is still just shocking to me.

 

Me too.  I think it means we have to listen to them.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

You lost me. I don't think Mercy said it was dumb.  What did I miss?

 

Mercy has not said that, but I believe poppy was referring to others in this thread who have.

[Lady Florida.]

His actions don't matter to me one way or the other. I never heard of him until this happened.

 

OTOH, the actions of people who don't think he has the right to express his opinion in what was a peaceful manner, are the ones who are unpatriotic IMO.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Just to clarify something regarding NFL contracts, a team may cut a player for any reason they wish.  However, if a player is cut, the team is still bound to certain terms of the contract (i.e. guaranteed salary/bonus money). If a player violates certain contractual, team, or NFL policies, a player can have their contract terminated and forfeit the guaranteed money (and in some cases they can be forced to pay money back, which happened to Michael Vick.)

 

[Valley Girl]

His actions don't matter to me one way or the other. I never heard of him until this happened.

 

OTOH, the actions of people who don't think he has the right to express his opinion in what was a peaceful manner, are the ones who are unpatriotic IMO.

 

 

He's welcome to express his opinion peacefully. He did just that. Hooray for him.

 

Others are welcome to peacefully express their opinion if they dislike what he said or how he said it. They're doing that. Hooray for them, too.

 

The rest are also free to peacefully express their opinion if they support him and dislike what those who disagree say. They're doing that as well. Hooray yet again.

 

Peacefully expressing an opinion doesn't mean there won't be pushback even to the point of loss of income, whether the loss is Kaepernick's if he's cut as a result or the NFL if people get angry and start boycotting if they do it. The rules about how freedom of speech works don't suddenly change.  But I get the sense on this thread that people seem to think they should change. To me, that doesn't at all mesh with the reactions I've seen to peacefully expressed, but otherwise unpopular, opinions. We always have the freedom to take our dollars and support elsewhere if we don't like what an individual or company says or does.

 

For the record, I'd also never heard of Kaepernick before this happened and don't have an opinion on what he did or could have or should have done. I just think the reactions to it on all sides are fascinating.

[Lady Florida.]

He's welcome to express his opinion peacefully. He did just that. Hooray for him.

 

Others are welcome to peacefully express their opinion if they dislike what he said or how he said it. They're doing that. Hooray for them, too.

 

The rest are also free to peacefully express their opinion if they support him and dislike what those who disagree say. They're doing that as well. Hooray yet again.

 

 

 

Of course we're all entitled to our opinions. That's why I ended my post with IMO - in my opinion. I think those calling him unpatriotic and demanding he be fired are in fact acting as though he did a terrible thing by expressing his opinion in the form of a peaceful protest. And that's my opinion. I voted in the poll and explained my answer to the OP. That is all.

[Lady Florida.]

I voted other.  I think it was largely a meaningless gesture on his part.   To many people, the National  Anthem is not just a song; some people I know see what he did as similar to burning the American flag.  I don't think he should lose his job over this.  But it seems that with his influence he might find something to do that would actually help.    I mean, read his clarification quote in the OP.  What did he actually do that would help anyone?

 

Mercy already pointed out what hes' doing, but it bears repeating in case anyone missed it. 

 

After the game, Kaepernick said he would donate the first $1 million he earned this season to organizations that work with the community. "I am planning to take it a step further, I'm currently working with organizations to be involved, and making sure I'm actively in these communities, as well as donating the first million dollars I make this year to different organizations to help these communities and help these people," he said.

Kaepernick added: "I've been very blessed to be in this position and make the kind of money I do, and I have to help these people. I have to help these communities. It's not right that they're not put in the position to succeed, or given the opportunities to succeed."

 

I really wonder if people who are complaining have ever met a Jehovah's Witness? Or realize that not saluting the flag has been upheld for public school students under the right to free expression?

 

 

 

I had a JW student when I was a teacher. He sat quietly during the pledge every morning. Other students sometimes tried to pressure him into standing and I had to put a stop to it. I even once had to teach an assistant principal who was in my classroom for my evaluation, that no I didn't have a discipline problem with the student who sat during the morning pledge.

 

I'm not on Twitter but I am FB friends with a bunch of vets and can see where my DH has commented on the topic on his FB friends' pages that are set to "friends of friends". I'm going to go by the people I actually know are vets/servicemembers rather than 2nd or 3rd hand accounts of supposed vets.

 

I have a bunch of friends on FB too who are either active military, reserves, or veterans. They are for the most part in support of him, though some have posted against what he did. I don't consider my small circle of FB friends to be a valid sample size for opinions on anything.

 

 

 

Patriotism isn't a rah-rah support of country. True patriotism requires that we try to fix what we see is wrong with it. We may see those "wrongs" from different perspectives. You may see something as a wrong that I see as something that is good and vice versa. It's a democracy and our ideas get to compete. 

 

I'm old enough to remember a country divided over Vietnam. The shout from one corner was "My country right or wrong." and from the other was "My country, right its wrongs" My beliefs fall in line with the latter. True patriotism is not nationalism. It's working to make things better for all citizens.

[DragonFaerie]

It brings to mind the speech from The American President:

 

"America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms."

 

I disagree with Kaepernick, and I disagree with not standing for the national anthem, but it would be hypocritical of me to not support his right to self-expression if I expect to have the right to mine.

[mathnerd]

He is expressing his right to Free Speech. He is not offending me in doing so. I never watch football and I did not know who he was until this hit the news - I live locally, so it was big news here - it still is.

 

However, as a sports fan (albeit on the opposite coast, so not a Niners fan), I know that there was talk last year of canning him based on his (lack of) performance.  So, even if he does lose his job, be aware that it may not be about the protest at all.

 

Many commentators are saying that there are several layers to this issue and not all of them are related to protesting against injustice - there is talk of him wanting to get out of the Niners for a long time and that it did not happen and he is using this to get out of the team. Again, I am not a sports fan at all and find it hard to understand anything about failed "trades", "free agents" etc.

[mathnerd]

He's an idiot (the national anthem doesn't have squat to do with slavery, and protesting it isn't advancing the cause of equality for all in any way), but I will defend his right to do it.  My DH and every other military person has fought for his right to protest in ineffective and idiotic ways.

Yesterday, while I was reading all the Kaepernick news to understand what the issue was, there was a news item in my news feed that says that there is a verse of the anthem that we never sing that is about slavery. The verse that none of us sing is quoted in this article:

http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2016/08/maybe_we_should_all_sit_down_d.html

 

ETA to add the lines that I did not know existed in the anthem:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,

Edited September 2, 2016 by mathnerd

[Farrar]

I thought the fact that he agreed to take a knee instead of sitting out showed how thoughtful he was trying to be about his protest and how clear he was trying to make it that it was about broad issues with our country and not meant to be offensive to veterans in any way.

 

Also, I heard it reported that another player from his team and a player for another team have joined him. I'd say who, but I know zero about football so that information was in one ear and out the other.

[Tammi K]

I've thought it was creepily reminiscent of communism ever since I knew what communism was. Your mother is not alone. Knowing the pledge and being able to recite it at certain occasions, fine. I'm teaching it to my daughter as cultural literacy. To require it daily is just weird. I mean, do they think it likely the children became traitors overnight?

 

Have you ever read this:  The Children's Story.     

 

It's very short and worth a read.

[eternalsummer]

What is this 'take a knee' ? Didn't he just kneel on one knee ? Is this a USian phrase ?

it's colloquial

[regentrude]

As somebody who grew up in a communist country, I see these mandatory patriotic displays as unfitting. It reminds me of my childhood and makes me sick. Stand if you want, sit if you want, and please stop making my 5 year old parrot it every morning in school.

 

I agree with every word of this.

 

I voted the last option: I don't care a hoot about this person and have no clue who the dude is - but I fully support his right to express his opinions in whatever non-violent manner he chooses.

Edited September 2, 2016 by regentrude

[zoobie]

What is this 'take a knee' ? Didn't he just kneel on one knee ? Is this a USian phrase ?

Sports lingo. Coaches tell players to "take a knee" to listen or rest while they're talking. Players will also take a knee if someone on the field is injured. It's not equivalent to a praying knee, but it's a sign of respect and unity on the field.

[happi duck]

A coach saying "take a knee" sounds better than "kneel before me, peasants!"

[Liz CA]

 

Kaepernick also pledged to donate his first million this year to charities that help communities in need. "I've been very blessed to be in this position and to be able to make the kind of money I do. And I have to help these people. I have to help these communities. It's not right that they're not put in a position to succeed or given those opportunities to succeed."

 

I think if he follows through with this promise, it will accomplish more where the rubber meets the road. I am happy to hear he is putting his money where his mouth is. Good for him.

[SemiSweet]

100% of the veterans and current soldiers I know IRL are anti-Kaepernick and see his actions as a slap in the face of their friends who have died defending our country's freedoms. It's been all over my FB feed recently.

 

Well I'm a veteran, my husband is active duty, my brother is a vet, my dad is a vet and the vast majority of my friends are active or vets, and we all support him.  I would guess that that is a case of something of a social bubble, if you are conservative you are more likely to know conservative people, and same with me as a liberal.  

 

On the issue itself, I'm much more bothered by the reaction than the action itself.  Patriotism is not a piece of cloth or a song.  Patriotism is a deed.  If we are ever so blinded by unwavering patriotism that we are unable to see when things are going wrong how will we ever affect change?  I strongly support peaceful civil disobedience, for any cause an individual deems necessary.  It's what our country was founded on.

[historically accurate]

Obligatory Other - although the last option (the one where I don't know really who he is) fits as well.

 

I went with other mainly because I really don't understand why we play the anthem before sporting events anyway (which is why this is such a thing). We don't play it before movies, ballets, concerts, plays, etc. What about sports makes this a national anthem time? There is nothing remotely patriotic about men or women playing a game. 

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I don't care what celebrities do.  Their actions and opinions are nothing to me.  They're just people who play games (sports celebrities,) play pretend (actors,) and make up stories (writers, directors) for a living. I don't see their views on anything outside of their professions as any more relevant than the views of any random stranger out in the world. When Americans get in a dither about what one of them says or does, I grieve for our society.

When it comes to someone doing something annoying or stupid (that isn't criminal) I think all of my elementary school teachers and mother were right.  "You're encouraging it if you keep paying attention to it."  I'm not taking a side in the debate with that statement, I'm saying to people who give the spotlight of attention and publicity to a celebrity they think is doing something are completely counter productive. If you don't like what someone is doing, stop publicly obsessing about it.

I don't say the pledge for personal (not denominational) religious reasons. I stand politely when others do so as to not distract others who choose to do it.  I stand and sing the national anthem but I certainly don't take offense or even look around to see others who don't.  I have yet to hear a legitimate reason why it should matter to me if someone else chooses differently than I do or why anyone should care what I do.

 

I've been, in the past, at 4th of July services at churches where there were flags and the pledge.  I don't go to those kinds of churches anymore for a variety of reasons-including that one.  There was once the national anthem at the beginning of a symphony performance but in years of attending, that was the only time.  I don't do sports. So as an adult I can't think of many other situations where grown ups say the pledge or sing the national anthem.  Why are we even bothering with it as though it matters to our lives? 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[marbel]

According to this article in the San Jose Mercury News, the union has threatened that "if the team does not take action against Kaepernick for his actions, which also include wearing socks that depict officers as pigs, "it could result in police officers choosing not to work at your facilities.""

 

but it goes on:

 

"The letter from the union runs counter to a statement recently issued by the Santa Clara Police Department, which said its officers "will continue to provide a high level of service at all stadium events to ensure the safety of the fans, players and referees.""

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by marbel

[gardenmom5]

I came across this recently, and thought it is something else to consider.

 

DeAngelo Williams dyed his hair pink in support of  his mother, who was fighting breast cancer. the NFL made him dye it back.  they also wouldn't allow him to wear pink.  so, they have multiple precendents in dictating players behavior on and off the field. (players dancing in the end zone after a TD.  tebow praying, etc.)

[MercyA]

Well, it's good the department realizes that police don't get to pick and choose who they'll protect and who they won't based on dislike.

 

I'd definitely ban the socks onfield though. That's needless provocation.

 

Just wanted to note that he didn't wear them during a game. He wore them during training camp:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-colin-kaepernick-socks-20160901-snap-htmlstory.html

[Pam in CT]

Evidently (who knew until all this hit the press, certainly not me, lol) today was some kind of NFL deadline for naming the roster and reaffirming the next year's contract terms, and he made the cut although not as the first quarterback.

 

 

The Atlantic has an intriguing article by Adam Serwer, Colin Kaepernick's True Sin, that his actions are especially provoking because of a sense that blacks like him should be grateful for their position and fortune, and therefore not rock the boat:

 

...Other objections have focused largely on his background. Kaepernick is the son of a black father and white mother; the latter put Kaepernick up for adoption, and he was raised by white parents. Kaepernick is light-skinned enough to be potentially racially ambiguous to non-blacks. He is a professional football player with a $114 million contract....

 

It is the nature of the color caste system in America that black people with close ties to whiteness are often those with the resources, education, and means to make vocal challenges to racism. It is not coincidence, it is not irony, it is the result of a racist history in which black people with lighter skin were more likely to be given privileges and opportunities than their darker brethren. And it is precisely because of those privileges and opportunities that they have the voice and platform to say what others are unable to. Growing up black in proximity to whiteness is more likely to open one’s eyes to America’s racial divides than to render them invisible.

 

Kaepernick’s true sin is his rejection of the faustian bargain offered to black people who reach elite status in America––that their success comes at the price of ceasing to criticize the racism in the system that allowed them to thrive as exceptions. Many Americans would prefer that black elites not remind them of America’s unfulfilled promise that all are created equal, but rather pretend it has already been realized, or be silent about the ways in which it has not. The only thing that would satisfy Kaepernick’s critics is apathy. 

 

 

That last line in particular keeps ringing in my ears.  

 

I mean, after all, the refrain WE WANT CHANGE!! is pretty dang common, among all stripes of people, in election season.  Why shouldn't he say so too?

[ktgrok]

I totally agree that his biggest sin was not knowing his place/being grateful. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I came across this recently, and thought it is something else to consider.

 

DeAngelo Williams dyed his hair pink in support of his mother, who was fighting breast cancer. the NFL made him dye it back. they also wouldn't allow him to wear pink. so, they have multiple precendents in dictating players behavior on and off the field. (players dancing in the end zone after a TD. tebow praying, etc.)

The NFL has strict rules about what players wear in the field and actions players can engage in on the field during a game.

I thought Williams was allowed to dye his hair? Other players have dyed their hair without issue. I am also fairly certain the NFL allows players to pray in the end zone.

Edited September 4, 2016 by ChocolateReignRemix

[JadeOrchidSong]

JojosMom,

Thank you so very much for this link http://www.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm

The 3rd verse "hireling and slave" DO NOT in any way refer to the black slaves. I like the interpretation in this website. Teachers can use this when teaching the anthem.

I , a legal immigrant from a communist country, am very grateful to this United States of America and respect the flag, the anthem, and the pledge of alligence.

Stomping on the flag and burning the flag makes my blood boil. To me, the flag is not just a piece of cloth. No country is perfect. The U. S. is a great country and I love living here.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

JojosMom,

Thank you so very much for this link http://www.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm

The 3rd verse "hireling and slave" DO NOT in any way refer to the black slaves. I like the interpretation in this website. Teachers can use this when teaching the anthem.

I , a legal immigrant from a communist country, am very grateful to this United States of America and respect the flag, the anthem, and the pledge of alligence.

Stomping on the flag and burning the flag makes my blood boil. To me, the flag is not just a piece of cloth. No country is perfect. The U. S. is a great country and I love living here.

I didn't see a convincing case on that site for "slave" meaning impressed sailors.

[zoobie]

I came across this recently, and thought it is something else to consider.

 

DeAngelo Williams dyed his hair pink in support of his mother, who was fighting breast cancer. the NFL made him dye it back. they also wouldn't allow him to wear pink. so, they have multiple precendents in dictating players behavior on and off the field. (players dancing in the end zone after a TD. tebow praying, etc.)

He dyed his hair pink after the NFL refused to let him wear pink accessories outside of the month of October for breast cancer awareness month. The players can do anything with hair. It's not part of the uniform.

 

NCAA has more strictly regulated celebration rules than the NFL, but kneeling in prayer is an exception to both leagues' rules. Tebow (IMO) sort of pushed the line with his "Tebowing" kneeling. Showboating prayer. :rofl:

Edited September 4, 2016 by zoobie

[JadeOrchidSong]

Yesterday, while I was reading all the Kaepernick news to understand what the issue was, there was a news item in my news feed that says that there is a verse of the anthem that we never sing that is about slavery. The verse that none of us sing is quoted in this article:

http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2016/08/maybe_we_should_all_sit_down_d.html

 

ETA to add the lines that I did not know existed in the anthem:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,

Read this for the interpretation of "hireling and slave". http://www.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm Edited September 4, 2016 by JadeOrchidSong

[Pam in CT]

The Smithsonian (which operates the museum in which the somewhat tattered original Banner yet hangs) did a feature in its periodical earlier this summer (before the CK brouhaha) on Keys and slavery, in which they acknowledge pretty clearly that in its time the poem was widely understood to be anti-abolitionist:

 

 

In 1814, Key was a slaveholding lawyer from an old Maryland plantation family, who thanks to a system of human bondage had grown rich and powerful.

 

When he wrote the poem .. Key not only profited from slaves, he harbored racist conceptions of American citizenship and human potential. Africans in America, he said, were: “a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.† 

 

Additionally, Key used his office as the District Attorney for the City of Washington from 1833 to 1840 to defend slavery, attacking the abolitionist movement in several high-profile cases... In the same year, shortly after a race riot in Washington, D.C. when an angry white mob set upon a well-known free black restaurant owner, Key likewise sought to crack down on the free speech of abolitionists he believed were riling things up in the city. Key prosecuted a New York doctor living in Georgetown for possessing abolitionist pamphlets.

 

In the resulting case, U.S. v. Reuben Crandall, Key made national headlines by asking whether the property rights of slaveholders outweighed the free speech rights of those arguing for slavery’s abolishment. Key hoped to silence abolitionists, who, he charged, wished to “associate and amalgamate with the negro.â€

 

... While Key may not be as notable as a president, his poem is, and that was enough to make abolitionists ridicule his words during his lifetime by sneering that America was truly the “Land of the Free and Home of the Oppressed.â€

 

Though we may have collectively forgotten Key’s backstory, it’s interesting to consider why this contradiction, which was so well known in the 19th century, has not survived in our national memory.

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: I haven't read anything to the effect that CK's actions are a protest against the song itself, however.  It has however launched an interesting civics lesson, for which I'm grateful.  I didn't know any of the 3rd stanza background myself.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Pam in CT

[MercyA]

Encouraging (to me) update: Kaepernick's jersey is now the third best-selling jersey on NFL.com.  :)

[MercyA]

A few more updates:

 

Kaepernick is now #1 in jersey sales on NFL.com, and he will be donating all of the proceeds of his jersey sales.

 

He and his girlfriend donated $60,000 worth of backpacks to students in Harlem and South Bronx.

 

Kaepernick addressed rumors that he has converted to Islam and said in the same interview, "I wish people would as outraged about the murders that are happening in the street as they are the protest.’’

 

I'm still finding it difficult to understand why anyone is upset about a football player's simple, personal, non-violent protest. I agree with him that all that energy would be better spent elsewhere. 

[MSNative]

Check out this Baltimore Ravens player's response:

 

I will not have the option to kneel this Sunday while the National Anthem is being played. A week ago, in what would prove to be my last pre-game opportunity of this 2016 season, I stood with my right hand over my heart as the anthem played. And if I am fortunate enough to ever be dressed for another game day I imagine I would be doing the same thing I did in my last. Standing. Not because America is ALL I desire it to be because most assuredly it is not. Racism still stews, families are fractured, the unborn are trashed, schools are struggling, religious freedom is increasingly under attack, violence pollutes our cities and our suburbs, and there is a growing divide between law enforcement and the community.

I stand, however, because I grew up in NAVY town USA and traveled overseas to support members of our armed forces who follow orders regardless of their personal sentiments. I stand for those who were forced to give their lives building the country that confined them to the tobacco fields and indigo plantations. I stand because as a child, I saw my father stand. A man who lived the tumultuous transition from "separate but equal" to the times surrounding the Civil Rights Act when angry people who held signs at his new school viscously screamed "NIGGER GO HOME!" I stand because on the contrary, no one held such a sign when I walked into my grade school.

Before competition, as I stand in shoulder pads and cleats, my helmet in my left hand, adrenaline flowing and my heart raging under my right, I never forget the ills of America but for a moment I envision its potential, remember its prosperity and give thanks to God for the land He has placed me in and the people I love who live in it.

I stand, because this mixed bag of evil and good is MY home. And because it's MY home my standing is a pledge to continue the fight against all injustice and preserve the greatest attributes of the country, including Colin Kaepernick's right to kneel.

His actions and similar actions by figures of the past and present are a vital part of our journey and a key component of the equation for social change and should be respected as such. From the country's inception, such displays against the status quo are distinctly American. My hope, though, is that these actions bring more attention to the PROBLEM than to the PROTESTOR. And that ensuing dialog discover truth and that truth give birth to justice in legitimate situations where there is none. My hope is that in this time of toil and discord we collectively use our positions in public and private life to take responsibility for our role and collectively seek solutions, not because we HAVE to but because we CARE to. Sometimes listening is of greater value than speaking. As elusive an aspiration as it may be, our goal, especially in the arena of race, should continue to be to create an America where eventually everyone can, in good conscience, stand. No matter the historical context or the present circumstance that is the unity I, perhaps naively, imagine when I see our flag and listen to our anthem.

Conflict when handled correctly strengthens. Conflict when mismanaged destroys.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Very nice. His explanation is how I feel when I stand, especially as an Army brat and Army wife, and it's also why Kaepernick's not standing doesn't bother me at all. 

 

It was Benjamin Watson. 

 

Check out this Baltimore Ravens player's response:

I will not have the option to kneel this Sunday while the National Anthem is being played. A week ago, in what would prove to be my last pre-game opportunity of this 2016 season, I stood with my right hand over my heart as the anthem played. And if I am fortunate enough to ever be dressed for another game day I imagine I would be doing the same thing I did in my last. Standing. Not because America is ALL I desire it to be because most assuredly it is not. Racism still stews, families are fractured, the unborn are trashed, schools are struggling, religious freedom is increasingly under attack, violence pollutes our cities and our suburbs, and there is a growing divide between law enforcement and the community.
I stand, however, because I grew up in NAVY town USA and traveled overseas to support members of our armed forces who follow orders regardless of their personal sentiments. I stand for those who were forced to give their lives building the country that confined them to the tobacco fields and indigo plantations. I stand because as a child, I saw my father stand. A man who lived the tumultuous transition from "separate but equal" to the times surrounding the Civil Rights Act when angry people who held signs at his new school viscously screamed "NIGGER GO HOME!" I stand because on the contrary, no one held such a sign when I walked into my grade school.
Before competition, as I stand in shoulder pads and cleats, my helmet in my left hand, adrenaline flowing and my heart raging under my right, I never forget the ills of America but for a moment I envision its potential, remember its prosperity and give thanks to God for the land He has placed me in and the people I love who live in it.
I stand, because this mixed bag of evil and good is MY home. And because it's MY home my standing is a pledge to continue the fight against all injustice and preserve the greatest attributes of the country, including Colin Kaepernick's right to kneel.
His actions and similar actions by figures of the past and present are a vital part of our journey and a key component of the equation for social change and should be respected as such. From the country's inception, such displays against the status quo are distinctly American. My hope, though, is that these actions bring more attention to the PROBLEM than to the PROTESTOR. And that ensuing dialog discover truth and that truth give birth to justice in legitimate situations where there is none. My hope is that in this time of toil and discord we collectively use our positions in public and private life to take responsibility for our role and collectively seek solutions, not because we HAVE to but because we CARE to. Sometimes listening is of greater value than speaking. As elusive an aspiration as it may be, our goal, especially in the arena of race, should continue to be to create an America where eventually everyone can, in good conscience, stand. No matter the historical context or the present circumstance that is the unity I, perhaps naively, imagine when I see our flag and listen to our anthem.
Conflict when handled correctly strengthens. Conflict when mismanaged destroys.

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Alte Veste Academy

[Pam in CT]

Very nice. His explanation is how I feel when I stand, especially as an Army brat and Army wife, and it's also why Kaepernick's not standing doesn't bother me at all. 

 

It was Benjamin Watson. 

 

 

Yes, beautiful.  And the balance he strikes on that very knife edge of I choose to stand because of what standing means to me... including support of his right to kneel based on what standing means to him  is to me the most poignant part of his essay:

 

...I stand, because this mixed bag of evil and good is MY home. And because it's MY home my standing is a pledge to continue the fight against all injustice and preserve the greatest attributes of the country, including Colin Kaepernick's right to kneel.

 

His actions and similar actions by figures of the past and present are a vital part of our journey and a key component of the equation for social change and should be respected as such. From the country's inception, such displays against the status quo are distinctly American...

[Ravin]

I voted other.  I think he's an attention seeking idiot. he's mixed race and has white adoptive parents.   and makes tens of millions of dollars a year.  he's privileged. his "stance" isn't doing anything to benefit anyone, but generating bad PR for himself and his team.  (which = $$ losses for owners and NFL)  I would be interested if those who think he's doing something great  exercising his first amendment rights/etc.  think the same thing about tim tebow praying at games.  (another over rated player).  ck's not that great of a player. if he gets cut for being "not a great player" how fast do you think he'll turn around and claim he was cut because of his stance?  (much like tebow fans yelled he was cut because of his beliefs.)

 

So you don't think he should take a stance because he's not black enough?

 

And the same principle applies to Tim Tebow. He can pray all he wants, who cares, as long as it's not actually when he's supposed to be tackling someone or whatever.

[Ravin]

there are 49ers fans burning his jerseys.  if those fans refuse to go to games, refuse to buy swag, if vendors refuse to advertise, - resulting in a $$ loss for the 49er owners and NFL - would they have a right to terminate him because of the of the negative impact he's causing to their bottom line?

 

A lot of those fans went out to buy his jerseys so they could burn them. Suddenly, it became a top seller.