Worried about religious teachings in texts, religious books and not

[Janeway]

I am worried that if I use texts from a religion, such as BJU, Kolbe, Apologia, that there will be anti-someone-who-is-not-them references. Plus, I am worried about colleges seeing something like Apologia listed and reject my child based on it. My children will not be going to religious colleges (unless they want to on their own, because they feel compelled in that direction, but we won't be suggesting it). 

 

Is this something I should worry about? Or not worry about at all?

[Matryoshka]

As far as I know, Kolbe uses standard secular texts unless you're taking a religious class.  Kolbe is Catholic, and the pope says evolution is a-ok, so there's nothing to bash.

 

Personally, I wouldn't use one of the young-earth / providential history protestant books unless you want you kids to be indoctrinated to that belief system.  Did you catch the reference on the other thread where someone mentioned an Abeka history text saying the Trail of Tears brought more Native Americans to God? :svengo:

[Hilltopmom]

I only use secular materials (well, mostly, but we skip any religious references in what we've used & my kids know to "take what we want & skip the rest).

 

Solves that problem. Plenty of curriculum out there not published by religious companies.

[JanetC]

There is no blanket answer here. Different religious vendors vary as to how much they push their faith, politics, and/or general world view. If you are concerned about a book, you need to preread. Sample pages on Rainbow or Christian Book and reviews on Cathy Duffy's website can help as well.

 

You cannot please every college out there. Make the best choices for your children's education and trust that there will be a college for them when the time comes. Most colleges welcome a diversity of religions and points of view, as long as they feel the student is academically prepared.

[freesia]

I agree that Kolbe guides are guides that just add in Catholic perspective. You can skip that and any added booklets that address theology.

 

For the vast, vast majority of colleges (the only colleges I've ever heard of who ask/care are the UC schools) no one even asks or sees what texts you use. I have never heard of any homeschooler personally (I live in NY) who didn't get into college b/c of Apologia or BJU. I've never known a homeschooler who was asked to provide text names.

[Janeway]

I agree that Kolbe guides are guides that just add in Catholic perspective. You can skip that and any added booklets that address theology.

 

For the vast, vast majority of colleges (the only colleges I've ever heard of who ask/care are the UC schools) no one even asks or sees what texts you use. I have never heard of any homeschooler personally (I live in NY) who didn't get into college b/c of Apologia or BJU. I've never known a homeschooler who was asked to provide text names.

I am very concerned about Gay bashing, homophobia, and general "my religion is the one true religion." I am actually very worried about any sort of Catholic perspective. I am unsure if I am violating a TOS by admitting that. Evolution is such a small concern compared to general bashing on anyone who is not their religion. I know I have read that BJU and Apologia claim that the only path to God is the one true path, something to the effect of having to be that religion. And I have seen that teaching at Catholic schools too, but am not familiar with Kolbe or Seton to if they would do it. 

[Tsuga]

I am worried that if I use texts from a religion, such as BJU, Kolbe, Apologia, that there will be anti-someone-who-is-not-them references. Plus, I am worried about colleges seeing something like Apologia listed and reject my child based on it. My children will not be going to religious colleges (unless they want to on their own, because they feel compelled in that direction, but we won't be suggesting it). 

 

Is this something I should worry about? Or not worry about at all?

 

I don't "worry" per se.

 

I would like my kids to be exposed to a plurality of views but not by reading day in and day out from a book that is attempting to hide some of those views.

 

I would not buy a science, history or social studies curriculum from a publisher that unabashedly says that this subject will be taught from a "Christian worldview", simply because I have choices and I think in that case, it affects the content by circumscribing it. Likewise I would not encourage a young kid to read a secular textbook that ignored or made false claims about Christianity.

 

On the other hand I don't care what the publisher published besides the textbook if they have a basically sound pluralist foundation in terms of presenting the material.

 

I would not buy from a publisher (or anyone, really) who attests to using profits for hate or discrimination or to support political causes that lobby for discrimination. BJU comes to mind. They can't profit, per se, off the textbooks but they use their influence in ways that I disagree with. 

 

I don't know about math books. Some people swear by Apologia for math and from what I read, some of the best grammar books are from Christian-founded authors. If my child was struggling I can't see keeping them from a good method because I don't agree with the religion of the author. 

[elegantlion]

I didn't worry either, we just didn't use religious publishers. The only exception for high school was Rod & Staff grammar, which is highly religious. I just happen to like their depth of grammar instruction (many people feel done with grammar by high school anyway). 

 

Once you start looking outside the circle of traditional home school materials, there are a plethora of secular materials. Science used to be the hardest to find, at least an outlined program that would work for most homeschoolers, even that has improved in the last few years. Holt publishes some traditional texts for homeschooling and, as pointed out above, Kolbe uses secular texts as well. The sticky threads at the top list out publishers for many subjects if you haven't looked through them. 

[Guest]

Notgrass is a favorite of ours for history and Kolbe for science. I understand the frustration and would not touch BJU, Abeka, or Apologia. :001_rolleyes:

[Brad S]

I am very concerned about Gay bashing, homophobia, and general "my religion is the one true religion." I am actually very worried about any sort of Catholic perspective. I am unsure if I am violating a TOS by admitting that. Evolution is such a small concern compared to general bashing on anyone who is not their religion. I know I have read that BJU and Apologia claim that the only path to God is the one true path, something to the effect of having to be that religion. And I have seen that teaching at Catholic schools too, but am not familiar with Kolbe or Seton to if they would do it. 

 

We've gone pre-K to early high school without any such issues come up, and there are lots of texts, etc. that would seem to meet your stated criteria easily.  (It's easy to avoid those publishers; there's so much out there if you don't have time to check specific works from those relatively few publishers.)  Some review is, of course, necessary, including with teachers in bricks and mortar schools, but we wouldn't use materials that hit any of those red-button issues, and haven't had any issues.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Brad S

[J-rap]

There are so many secular texts and curriculums out there nowadays (very good ones, too), that I think if you are concerned about this, you should just avoid the ones from Christian publishers.  

 

That being said, in the ones we have used, I don't recall any talk about homosexuality at all.  The two subjects that have come up from time to time are the Young Earth theory and America being God's favored country.  Mostly for those reasons, we stopped using Christian science and history texts.

Edited March 11, 2016 by J-rap

[Bluegoat]

I would be very surprised to see much about homosexuality apart from books specifically about moral development.

 

I wouldn't personally ever use a science book from a YEC perspective, and I avoid stuff from fundamentalist publishers for a variety of reasons.  Most of the Catholic stuff isn't that different from secular programs, but OTOH there are lots of reasonable secular things as well.

 

It can be tricky at times.  I'm Anglican, and use a CM approach, but I find it hard at times to find CM materials that are not from a religious perspective that isn't mine, even though CM herself was Anglican.

[regentrude]

If you are concerned, the easiest thing would be to simply avoid all materials that are teaching from a religious perspective and use secular materials instead.

[HomeAgain]

Apologia makes me leery because they have proven themselves to be lazy when undertaking the task of researching religion before making a decision - I don't trust that they've treated science any differently.  There are many who feel the same way in academic positions.

 

BJU has been declined by the California University system for not being rigorous enough (not YEC, but the lack of work expected for a high school level class was not up to standard).

 

A Beka has been rejected as too weak in higher math, not getting into set theory and purposefully omitting anything they feel the student may have trouble with.

 

 

Pick academics based on academic rigour, pick religious texts based on belief.  Try to stay away from the ones who will con you into thinking they can be both.

 

 

[EKS]

If you're worried about colleges, I finally decided that the vast majority of the people looking at my son's application probably knew very little to nothing about the textbooks I used.  That is assuming that they even read the descriptions carefully in the first place.  In my son's case, one of the publishers that I felt was questionable (for a kid applying to selective engineering schools) was Teaching Textbooks (we used it for geometry).  I listed it by title and author (as I did all of the texts) and didn't mention the publisher.  He got in just about everywhere he applied, so I guess something worked.

 

I think we forget just how much specialized knowledge we as homeschoolers develop about all of the various programs, texts, authors, and publishers out there.  Honestly, there are very few other people who have this knowledge, and this includes professional educators.  When I worked with a small private school on their curriculum for several years, I was astounded with the lack of knowledge of educational resources available that the teachers in the school had.  I'm guessing that college admissions people are even more in the dark.

[Pen]

I think if any such text seems to be the one that would be best for your child to use aside from your concerns about it being antiNotUs, take a look at that specific text and decide how to way the positives and negatives.  

 

I would personally start with non-religious texts to see if any is a good fit for my child before I turn to religious ones, but if he needed a religious one to be able to learn a subject and there were no secular alternative, I would go ahead and use the religious one, but so far that has not been a problem for us in any significant degree.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't generally use religious texts, but I have used texts I didn't want to list the names of on school documents.  Mostly because I was concerned that some people might stick their nose up at it.  Stuff like "Cartoon Guide to...."  So in those cases I don't list the text.  I list the topics.  I make sure the topics are in line with what is typically taught.  IMO that is what ultimately matters and not in what format the information is presented. 

 

 

 

[regentrude]

I don't generally use religious texts, but I have used texts I didn't want to list the names of on school documents.  Mostly because I was concerned that some people might stick their nose up at it.  Stuff like "Cartoon Guide to...."  So in those cases I don't list the text.  I list the topics.  I make sure the topics are in line with what is typically taught.  IMO that is what ultimately matters and not in what format the information is presented. 

 

yeah, I would not want "The idiot's Guide to.." as my textbook listing either

 

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

We are a Catholic family with many LGBTQ members.  We also use Kolbe, with online classes. The only issue we've had was in Theology classes, where one teacher was very strict in his approach to dogma. Catholics come in many variations, just look at Pope Benedict and Pope Francis. Totally different approaches to the same dogma. So yes, one Theology course didn't work out for us. The rest has been fine.

 

The science classes and curriculum they use are totally secular. In Biology, one reading was assigned over Christmas vacation, and one class was spent discussing it (It was about evolution, and the separation between science and theology). If you're not taking the online classes, you just don't assign that reading. Ok, there was also one joke in online Geometry about the shape of Jesus's cross - it was funny but I can't even remember it. Doh. Definitely not indoctrination :)

 

There is no YEC, no mention of God/whatever  in Kolbe's curriculum, unless specifically stated and in an outside resource. The books are all secular from mainstream publishers - no homeschool publishers. 

My eldest entered university last fall, in a place known to reject YEC, and homeschoolers who used YEC curricula. 

 

Now, in the online classes, my kids have been exposed to other kids believing in YE, and anti-LGBT propaganda. But it comes from the kids, not the teachers. But as you don't seem to be considering the online classes, then it's a non-issue for you.

[SparklyUnicorn]

yeah, I would not want "The idiot's Guide to.." as my textbook listing either

 

 

LOL

 

Well for some subjects I think it's ok.  We used an Idiot Guide for music history.  The topics are there, but it does sound kinda goofy to use something with the word "idiot" in the title. 

[SilverMoon]

On 3/10/2016 at 6:27 PM, Janeway said:

 

 

.

Edited August 18, 2022 by SilverMoon

[J-rap]

I don't generally use religious texts, but I have used texts I didn't want to list the names of on school documents.  Mostly because I was concerned that some people might stick their nose up at it.  Stuff like "Cartoon Guide to...."  So in those cases I don't list the text.  I list the topics.  I make sure the topics are in line with what is typically taught.  IMO that is what ultimately matters and not in what format the information is presented. 

 

Yes, I've used a couple "Dummies Guide To..." books!  I'm pretty sure I didn't list the title.  

[katilac]

 When I worked with a small private school on their curriculum for several years, I was astounded with the lack of knowledge of educational resources available that the teachers in the school had.  I'm guessing that college admissions people are even more in the dark.

 

This hasn't been my experience in college admissions. When dd DE at the local university, the admissions officer looked over our list of texts and was very knowledgable. She said that admissions can get a lot of information from texts used, because they know that ABC Math is not equal to XYZ math. 

 

It doesn't surprise me that a small private school doesn't have this knowledge. Unless it's an elite school, I would expect them to pick a standard text if secular, or a corresponding religious text if not. 

[wintermom]

I am worried that if I use texts from a religion, such as BJU, Kolbe, Apologia, that there will be anti-someone-who-is-not-them references. Plus, I am worried about colleges seeing something like Apologia listed and reject my child based on it. My children will not be going to religious colleges (unless they want to on their own, because they feel compelled in that direction, but we won't be suggesting it). 

 

Is this something I should worry about? Or not worry about at all?

 

Sounds a bit like you're making a knee-jerk reaction to things (text books and religions) you've not really researched yourself. I think it would be important to look closely at any material you want to cover with your children, whether secular or religious. Not all secular text books are amazing. There is a lot of poor material out there, and there is good material. The quality isn't necessarily tied to religious or not.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Do colleges typically ask for book lists?

 

 

[Janeway]

I can only speak to the Kolbe Biology course and say that there is nothing of that sort in it at all. The syllabus schedules some additional readings for Catholic students, but we just don't do those. It uses a standard, secular text book. (Fwiw, I haven't generally seen any tendency for Catholics to bash anyone who is not also Catholic, and I say that as a non-Catholic myself.)

I grew up Catholic so I am avoiding some of the Catholic teachings that I specifically do not want my children to get in to. And that I have seen relatives children being taught. And have seen at social gatherings with churches with the relatives. And I know I have read that BJU and Apologia have references to being the one true religion and only one path to God, stuff like that. 

 

I am not opposed to anyone's religion, but, I would like my children to not be opposed to anyone else's religion or think one person is better than the other based on religion. We are liberal Protestant Christians, but based on the standards of many home schoolers, that makes us not Christians. Most of our friends are Christian, Jewish, or Hindu. I am fine with religious material, I just want to avoid any references to "the only path to God" and "one true God" and "only path to Salvation" and sinners or that bad things are caused by sinners and so on. 

 

I am looking at science seriously from Science Shephard, Kolbe, and Oak Meadow. Oak Meadow is costly so the other two would be more affordable. I am interested in CK-12 but my child says no online material. Ouch! I am already planning to try to get the WTM writing class in (the early high school one, I cannot recall what it is called, but uses excerpts of 3 books in their program).

[Momto6inIN]

I had a mom tell me a few weeks ago that the Purdue admissions guy specifically told her that they like to see Apologia's science on homeschool transcripts because they "know what it means" - so I assume that means it has no negative connotations for them. YMMV.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

When we did the application process, I purposefully listed that we had avoided any science book that was intermingled with religion.  In our case, the university in question is strongly anti-YEC, and assumes all homeschoolers are YEC.  While they will admit YEC people in their arts faculty, they do not admit them in the science faculty. So I made a point of distancing ourselves from this image of homeschoolers they had.  All our science books were those used by Kolbe Academy. 

 

If you're not planning on taking the online classes, then you can have an entirely secular approach to science - the way science should be.

[SparklyUnicorn]

and assumes all homeschoolers are YEC. 

 

What a thing to assume....

 

:glare:

[G5052]

Do colleges typically ask for book lists?

 

More selective ones either ask for or expect that, but many do not.

 

My oldest applied to one that specifically asked for that from homeschooled candidates. If you left it off, I don't think that would be taken well.

 

That said, we used BJUP science for two years and VP's Omnibus series. They were listed, and it wasn't an issue apparently.

 

Frankly you can't generalize on these things. College admissions REALLY doesn't have universal rules at all.

 

Most community colleges admit you if you have a reasonable transcript, college test or placement scores in the top 2/3, and no recent convictions, although it depends on the crime.

 

Very selective colleges will want top-notch scores, a transcript, book lists, recommendations, essays, and sometimes more.

[SparklyUnicorn]

More selective ones either ask for or expect that, but many do not.

 

My oldest applied to one that specifically asked for that from homeschooled candidates. If you left it off, I don't think that would be taken well.

 

That said, we used BJUP science for two years and VP's Omnibus series. They were listed, and it wasn't an issue apparently.

 

Frankly you can't generalize on these things. College admissions REALLY doesn't have universal rules at all.

 

Most community colleges admit you if you have a reasonable transcript, college test or placement scores in the top 2/3, and no recent convictions, although it depends on the crime.

 

Very selective colleges will want top-notch scores, a transcript, book lists, recommendations, essays, and sometimes more.

 

Ah ok.  Well, I have to submit a plan of study to satisfy the state regulations.  So that information will be out there and maybe some schools might ask.  However, I am not required to list a book.  Alternately I can describe what I generally plan to do or list topics.  Topics makes the most sense to me.  I've done it both ways. 

[Lori D.]

While I've seen many homeschoolers on this Board run into issues with college admissions for a wide variety of issues, choice of textbooks has only ONCE been one of those issues (one college would not accept Rosetta Stone as being adequate for the foreign language credits) -- and I've been closely following the high school/college boards for 10 years now.

 

Not saying it could never happen -- but honestly, if you end up being the rare exception and it turns out to be an issue with one college, perhaps that's a very big clue: that college is not very welcoming to a specific group of students, and is not a good fit for your student… ;) There are plenty of colleges out there that WILL welcome your student and your student's unique path through high school. :)

Edited March 11, 2016 by Lori D.

[Arcadia]

Do colleges typically ask for book lists?

The B&M schools here have a textbook list which the guidance counsellor can just email or upload if asked. The private school counsellors said it varies how much details were asked.

 

E.g.

Christian private

http://www.lasallehs.org/s/639/mobile/mobile.aspx?pgid=700&gid=1

 

Public

http://www.fremont.k12.ca.us/cms/lib04/CA01000848/Centricity/Domain/5132/Secondary%20Core%20Textbooks%202015-16%20for%20website%20Updated%202-Oct.pdf

 

Public

http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=2277&dataid=1201&FileName=High%20School%20Textbook%20List%202014-15.pdf

 

ETA:

The exam grades for SAT/AP/CC are look at first though before book list are even considered.

 

ETA:

The private school cousellors said they were always asked by parents (not by the kids) how to improve the odds of getting to selective colleges.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Arcadia

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm a very traditional (dogmatic?) Catholic, and I don't use any religious texts for non-religion subjects.  

 

It doesn't make sense to me to buy religious science texts unless your religious view has strongly swayed you against established and tested scientific theory.  If you are not in this category, it seems much more sensible to just use secular texts than to try to excise references you disagree with.  

 

But it is a fallacy to assume a secular text has a neutral POV.  There is really no such thing.  Every person, every text, everything has a world view of one kind or another.  A secular worldview IS a worldview, and a Christian worldview is another.  A Muslim or Hindi or Buddhist world view may be found it texts written by authors with those world views.  This is just the nature of the beast.  

 

You can't avoid world views, so you may as well teach your kids to recognize bias when possible and attempt to identify world views different from their own.  It's part of a good education.  

 

 

[EKS]

This hasn't been my experience in college admissions. When dd DE at the local university, the admissions officer looked over our list of texts and was very knowledgable. She said that admissions can get a lot of information from texts used, because they know that ABC Math is not equal to XYZ math.

 

It doesn't surprise me that a small private school doesn't have this knowledge. Unless it's an elite school, I would expect them to pick a standard text if secular, or a corresponding religious text if not.

Interesting. This is good to know!

[Janeway]

Sounds a bit like you're making a knee-jerk reaction to things (text books and religions) you've not really researched yourself. I think it would be important to look closely at any material you want to cover with your children, whether secular or religious. Not all secular text books are amazing. There is a lot of poor material out there, and there is good material. The quality isn't necessarily tied to religious or not.

I cannot get my hands on these things to see in advance. I am just 100% relying on what I see online. There are a couple stores that sell home school materials in driving distance so I have checked things out. But there is not much variety there. most of it is Apologia and BJU and Abeka, AOP, that sort of thing. And, I don't have the time to sit and read entire books to review each one. So, I just wanted people's opinions. Science Shephard looks very good and the scope and sequence looks like exactly what we want. My husband went to Jesuit School when he was in high school so I thought Kolbe could be a good choice. I did not like how Apologia is presented at the upper level, although I have been using their program at the lower levels and enjoyed it. Someone mentioned Oak Meadow on here and I had looked at them before and thought they looked great, but they are pricey. They also do not have much for samples on their site.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Although, this still does not seem likely common to me.  I've been told colleges want a short and sweet (somewhat standard looking) transcript and not anything too long because they have too many things to read as it is.  Really, a college that admits thousands of students is going to get hung up on which math book someone uses?

When I signed my kid up at the CC she asked if he had the prerequisite.  I said yes and then some.  Well do I have any documentation.  Yes the paperwork I send to the school.  They weren't interested in my documentation.  Which yeah that's proof of nothing really.  But that ticked me off because I jump through these damn hoops and then when it matters they don't look at it anyway? 

 

 

The B&M schools here have a textbook list which the guidance counsellor can just email or upload if asked. The private school counsellors said it varies how much details were asked.

E.g.
Christian private
http://www.lasallehs.org/s/639/mobile/mobile.aspx?pgid=700&gid=1

Public
http://www.fremont.k12.ca.us/cms/lib04/CA01000848/Centricity/Domain/5132/Secondary%20Core%20Textbooks%202015-16%20for%20website%20Updated%202-Oct.pdf

Public
http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=2277&dataid=1201&FileName=High%20School%20Textbook%20List%202014-15.pdf

ETA:
The exam grades for SAT/AP/CC are look at first though before book list are even considered.

ETA:
The private school cousellors said they were always asked by parents (not by the kids) how to improve the odds of getting to selective colleges.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I cannot get my hands on these things to see in advance. I am just 100% relying on what I see online. There are a couple stores that sell home school materials in driving distance so I have checked things out. But there is not much variety there. most of it is Apologia and BJU and Abeka, AOP, that sort of thing. And, I don't have the time to sit and read entire books to review each one. So, I just wanted people's opinions. Science Shephard looks very good and the scope and sequence looks like exactly what we want. My husband went to Jesuit School when he was in high school so I thought Kolbe could be a good choice. I did not like how Apologia is presented at the upper level, although I have been using their program at the lower levels and enjoyed it. Someone mentioned Oak Meadow on here and I had looked at them before and thought they looked great, but they are pricey. They also do not have much for samples on their site.

 

This is what I find so annoying about buying textbooks.  I rarely can look at much of them before buying.  Maybe you can ask around locally?

 

There is variety though.  With some subjects it is a bit more challenging (science is a big one), but with many subjects there are tons of secular options.  Probably a ton of stuff you haven't heard about too. 

 

If you are willing to use something like Abeka, what I have heard about it is that it is very schoolish.  So if you don't mind schoolish, there are tons of options out there.  Homeschool Supercenter, I think it is called, sells public school textbooks with answer keys and TMs.  That's a bit on the pricey side buying new, but you could also buy used textbooks from Amazon.  Some textbooks I've gotten for a few bucks including the TMs (that often contain the answers). 

[JoanHomeEd]

Do colleges typically ask for book lists?

 

MIT did not ask and we did not give. 

Not that we used anything controversial, but because we did not want to overload the admission committee. 

The application forms were already full of information. In fact, we almost ran out of space to put all the Math courses in the "Self-reported coursework" section.

Since the kid was admitted, I guess I can vouch that at least this particular college doesn't mind.

[Arcadia]

The religious high schools we toured use secular textbooks for all subjects other than bible studies partially because they are using the common AP textbooks and test prep books for their students.

 

Really, a college that admits thousands of students is going to get hung up on which math book someone uses?

 

When I signed my kid up at the CC she asked if he had the prerequisite. I said yes and then some. Well do I have any documentation ...

:lol: on the math book.

 

I take documentation for prerequisites to mean whatever standardised test scores or grades from outside classes that my kids have.

 

Having scanned copies of my kids scores reports on my phone was helpful when touring private schools.

[SparklyUnicorn]

The religious high schools we toured use secular textbooks for all subjects other than bible studies partially because they are using the common AP textbooks and test prep books for their students.

 

 

:lol: on the math book.

 

I take documentation for prerequisites to mean whatever standardised test scores or grades from outside classes that my kids have.

 

Having scanned copies of my kids scores reports on my phone was helpful when touring private schools.

 

Although they accept one taking the prerequisite in high school as good enough.  I somewhat understand, but the way I was looking at it was I'm paying for this class out of my own pocket.  No financial aid.  No reduction in the price.  No nothing.  He's not matriculated so it's not a matter of needing to be accepted into the school.  They take anyone.  It feels mostly like a way to get more money out of me really.  They let me take whatever I wanted without proof.

 

It worked out, but I thought why even ask if you don't accept what I have anyway. 

[Mom22ns]

Notgrass is a favorite of ours for history and Kolbe for science. I understand the frustration and would not touch BJU, Abeka, or Apologia. :001_rolleyes:

 

Nutgrass Government was pushier on religion than Apologia Chemistry. BJU is very pushy in all subjects and broadly bashes those who disagree. Apologia (at least those written by Jay Wile) weren't anywhere near that although I wouldn't have used a Christian publisher for Biology. I also understand the new revisions of Apologia not done by Wile have an increase in religious content.

[SilverMoon]

On 3/11/2016 at 12:11 PM, Janeway said:

I cannot get my hands on these things to see in advance. I am just 100% relying on what I see online. There are a couple stores that sell home school materials in driving distance so I have checked things out. But there is not much variety there. most of it is Apologia and BJU and Abeka, AOP, that sort of thing. And, I don't have the time to sit and read entire books to review each one. So, I just wanted people's opinions. Science Shephard looks very good and the scope and sequence looks like exactly what we want. My husband went to Jesuit School when he was in high school so I thought Kolbe could be a good choice. I did not like how Apologia is presented at the upper level, although I have been using their program at the lower levels and enjoyed it. Someone mentioned Oak Meadow on here and I had looked at them before and thought they looked great, but they are pricey. They also do not have much for samples on their site.

 

 

To save money with Oak Meadow buy the mainstream textbook they use on a used bookstore like Amazon or Half Price Books and just buy the guides from OM, and of course the lab equipment if you're going that way. That Holt Biology book is on Amazon for half the price at the moment.

Edited April 17, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Janeway]

Rather than a broad thread on religious school books in general, a thread about the how religious Science Shepherd's biology level is would be much more effective. I know their elementary book beats "God made it!" over the head regularly, but I've never seen the high school one. I strongly considered their bio for this fall, but ended up going with Campbell's Biology: Exploring Life instead, which is a secular textbook marketed to public schools.

Personally I thought the Fulbright Apologia books were much more over the top than the Wile books.

 

To save money with Oak Meadow buy the mainstream textbook they use on a used bookstore like Amazon or Half Price Books and just buy the guides from OM, and of course the lab equipment if you're going that way. That Holt Biology book is on Amazon for half the price at the moment.

Which would you recommend? Kolbe vs Oak Meadow?

[SilverMoon]

I have zero experience with Kolbe. :)

[rdj2027]

Kolbe and Oak Meadow serve different types of students.  I have used Oak Meadow with my more unconventional, hands-on, artsy kid and Kolbe with my "just give me a list, let me study and take the test" kid.  I like both for different reasons.  One is a Waldorfy approach and the other is Catholic school setting.  I went to Jesuit schools and always liked the frontal no nonsense type of teaching, my son would be bored out of his mind with it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I had a mom tell me a few weeks ago that the Purdue admissions guy specifically told her that they like to see Apologia's science on homeschool transcripts because they "know what it means" - so I assume that means it has no negative connotations for them. YMMV.

We used Apologia Physics and Chemistry. Miller Levine Biology with a Kolbe course plan. Then he had DE Chemistry as a senior. Purdue accepted ds to the College of Science and gave him a merit scholarship.

 

I wasn't willing to do Apologia biology. I felt the science in Kolbe's was solid.

[freesia]

We used Apologia Physics and Chemistry. Miller Levine Biology with a Kolbe course plan. Then he had DE Chemistry as a senior. Purdue accepted ds to the College of Science and gave him a merit scholarship.

 

I wasn't willing to do Apologia biology. I felt the science in Kolbe's was solid.

This makes me smile b/c this is much our progression so far- miller/Levine w/ kolbe plan and then Apologia Chem and physics. I don't know where well go after physics(next year).

[Another Lynn]

I cannot get my hands on these things to see in advance. I am just 100% relying on what I see online. There are a couple stores that sell home school materials in driving distance so I have checked things out. But there is not much variety there. most of it is Apologia and BJU and Abeka, AOP, that sort of thing. And, I don't have the time to sit and read entire books to review each one. So, I just wanted people's opinions. Science Shephard looks very good and the scope and sequence looks like exactly what we want. My husband went to Jesuit School when he was in high school so I thought Kolbe could be a good choice. I did not like how Apologia is presented at the upper level, although I have been using their program at the lower levels and enjoyed it. Someone mentioned Oak Meadow on here and I had looked at them before and thought they looked great, but they are pricey. They also do not have much for samples on their site.

 

Ironic, because it always seemed to me that the lower grades of Apologia science were preachier than the upper grades.  We've enjoyed anything we've used so far by Jay Wile.

 

As far as religious texts go, I have a hard time imagining any liberal protestant turning to Abeka of BJU for a religious text.  Were you considering doing that?

 

[freesia]

Ironic, because it always seemed to me that the lower grades of Apologia science were preachier than the upper grades. We've enjoyed anything we've used so far by Jay Wile.

 

As far as religious texts go, I have a hard time imagining any liberal protestant turning to Abeka of BJU for a religious text. Were you considering doing that?

 

I agree. The lower Apologia drove me nuts, but I've been fine with the Chem book for high school.