Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the responses. Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 My answer to this would depend entirely on my dd's response to her mistakes. Is she repentant? Was it a one-time thing? Is it part of a pattern? If my dd was clearly repentant and was anxious to mend her ways, I would work very hard to find a way for her to earn back her insurance - take a safe driving course, work around the house, or even just me saying, okay, you screwed up, but you're repentant and trying to do better, so here's your Get Out of Trouble Free card. If she were not repentant and trying to do better, I would feel that I had no choice to end her driving privileges. It might mean she would need to take out more loans or something, but - driving is an adult activity and there are serious consequences to poor behavior and judgment. Anne 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Can you fine her the difference between what it cost for you to cover her clean-record insurance and the increased rate for her poor driving record? That is the kind of compromise dh and I would be comfortable with. DH is really good with keeping our young adults accountable for their expenses. He keeps a running tab/loan balance, when they need money for unforeseen school and get-to-work expenses. They understand that they will pay this back once they are finished with school and making money - interest free. Maybe something like that would work for your dd? If course he may rip up the tab as a grad gift, but they are aware of the debt. Is she aware of the money you're saving her by covering it? I mean, the exact dollar amount and how many additional hours she'd have to work at one of her jobs to cover it? It's hard to parent young adults! In many ways babies are easier! Edited February 18, 2016 by Seasider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I would have her look into a student loan to pay tuition, if she needs her current cash to pay insurance. It sucks to do this, but honestly, unless the situation was out of her control (ie she got hit by someone else), she needs to deal with the consequences of her actions. Think about it like this....what would she do if she didn't have you to bail her out? If you feel that she is really a bad driver, then I would maybe offer a trade off. If she attends a defensive driving class and shows effort to change her habits, then you will help pay back the student load created by this situation. I would add some rules though: She must have a passing GPA (show responsiblity, planning, effort in her general life) She must have a clean driving record until she graduates. She must graduate. I would only pay the amount equal to the Defensive Driving class, and the insurance, no extra. (so she doesn't add more things to the loan and expect you to pay for them) That way, she has time to prove that the defensive driving helped, and doesn't leave you with paying a bill that she doesn't follow through on (ie has to graduate to get you to pay it off). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 You say she is an "unsafe driver" - do you mean it isn't safe for her to be driving, or she's flouted the speed limit signs one time too many? If she isn't safe on the road, I would not support her driving, even though that might have unfortunate consequences. If she is not a patently dangerous driver, I would keep paying but treat it as money she owes me back someday. Or maybe I would just charge her for the increase caused by her bad driving record. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I would check with the insurance company and make sure you can drop her -- sometimes if there is a licenced driver in the house you pay no matter what. But, barring the offenses being the kind of thing that would end someone's life if there were one more incident, I would sit down and give her a one last chance speech and lay out everything she loses if the insurance goes away. Of course my advice is dependent on details like the specifics of the problems and her attitude. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Not trying to dig further if you don't want to provide more detail, but as someone said... one time? Forgivable. I'm all about second chances if there's repentance and now she's being extra careful. Repeated offenses, reckless driving? She's on her own or I loan the money but we come to an agreement of how she can repay. If this is the case, it is not YOU who is putting a block on her road, it's HER. You have been kind and loving to pay for her insurance, she has not been appreciative and acted responsibly. Her doing, not yours. Good luck in your decision! We are also parents of a young adult, it's very tough sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) My answer above was based on the idea that she had incurred some violations that were causing the cost of insurance to increase. Rereading, perhaps you're just not comfortable with her driving skills and habits? In that case, who owns the car? You could give her the choice to either clean up her act (pay for and take safe driving classes) or start paying for her own coverage. This is one of those times it would be fun to have an officer friend tail my kid and catch them driving poorly. If your dd starts getting tickets (assuming she hasn't yet), it may change her ways. If she is texting while driving, well that's dangerous but harder to address until she actually crashes. Fender benders in parking lots and careless vehicle handling? Keeping the car trashed? If you own the car, regular vehicle inspections and fines for damage might help. If she owns the vehicle, it's her right to keep it disgusting or to dent it up (as long as she's only hitting inanimate objects and not causing property damage). Edited February 18, 2016 by Seasider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 It would depend on the infraction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I agree with the others, it would depend very much on the reason for my concerns about her driving. If she made a mistake and lost control, or has made a habit of driving a little bit over the speed limit, I'd have a lot more grace than if she was habitually texting while driving, being reckless/careless, etc. Basically, I wouldn't take away her insurance unless I felt she was truly a danger to herself and others. If, however, she IS a danger to herself or others... yes, I would refuse to pay for her insurance. A daughter with limited career/education opportunities is better off than a daughter who is responsible for someone's death (possibly her own). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cera2 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 This is definitely how I feel. I do think she is an unsafe driver. As regards the type and frequency of issues, I'll just say there have been multiple instances across several types of irresponsible behavior, and although we have addressed these issues with dd, new instances of irresponsibility/lack of safety seem to continue. It's not just a matter of "your insurance went up, and we don't want to pay." In this situation, I would stop paying for the car and insurance for a period of time. During that time I would require that she take additional driver education courses (there are some great ones designed for people who are trying to get their license back or who want to reduce the points on their license). I think I would start with 90 days after which I would reintroduce the car/insurance with restrictions (only to/from work and school) and see how it went. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Are you sure she will pick up insurance coverage if you drop it? Leaving her as an uninsured driver could have worse consequences. Wouldn't you also have to take the car away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Based on your update, the car and the insurance would no longer be paid for by us. We do not fund intentional stupidity or illegal actions. From the day my girls began studying to get their learner's permit they KNEW the consequences of texting/driving, speeding, disobeying traffic laws, etc. I might give a little bit of grace for a one-time speeding ticket, but continual lack of respect for rules, NO WAY. Even if it hurt their chances at in internship, etc. She can maybe carpool, pay for Uber or a taxi, pay a driver, find an internship along public transportation routes, move to live near an internship. She can make it work if she has to. Or like others have said, loans for education, jobs pay for her car and insurance on her own now. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 If she isn't safe on the road, I would take the car away. I'm sorry, that is going to suck for her, but lives are at stake. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Thanks, everyone. I will probably delete my comments on this thread in a bit. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't being unreasonable, but it sounds like other people feel the same way I do. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Will she take seriously your statement that you will take away her car? Perhaps you could give her until the end of the semester, let her know she will lose the car then if she does not change her ways. Then you would have to be prepared for enduring the consequences of her poor choice, because certainly you will feel the effects of it. I am sorry, I understand it's difficult. We want our young adults to succeed but the stakes are higher than when they were little. I think another poster mentioned that she may need to look into increased financial assistance or loans in order to continue her studies. I have one in this situation, the gap between her earning and college costs are too great to continue for the next 3 years. We have had to hold her hand and walk her through some serious number crunching and budget making. She comes to it kicking and screaming, she'd much rather take the Scarlet O'Hara approach. It's downright painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 She is a student. She is claimed on your taxes? and has her address as your home? Our insurance would require that she be on our policy if she has a driver's license. The only way for us to take her off of our insurance without us not claiming her as a dependent would be for her to forfeit her license to the DMV. Are you willing to go that far? She would have to completely redo every step required to get her license back. It usually isn't so easy as just dropping her because you don't want to insure her any longer. I would require an intensive driving class this summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Even if it turns out to be true that your insurance won't take her off, I would still confiscate the car if I thought my daughter ought not be driving. Safety on the road trumps everything. Anne 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Based on your update, the car and the insurance would no longer be paid for by us. We do not fund intentional stupidity or illegal actions. From the day my girls began studying to get their learner's permit they KNEW the consequences of texting/driving, speeding, disobeying traffic laws, etc. I might give a little bit of grace for a one-time speeding ticket, but continual lack of respect for rules, NO WAY. Even if it hurt their chances at in internship, etc. She can maybe carpool, pay for Uber or a taxi, pay a driver, find an internship along public transportation routes, move to live near an internship. She can make it work if she has to. Or like others have said, loans for education, jobs pay for her car and insurance on her own now. I agree with this except loans to get a car and insurance. I think having to navigate without a car can be a good learning experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 If your child is unsafe, money might be a tool (an incentive), but it is the least of your actual concerns. In my imagination, I think I would approach it in terms of not getting any more parent monetary support towards driving at all, until she completes a safety training course that you approve. (Offer to pay for the course, require proof that she took it and passed.) Of course she is free to be a driver without your monetary support, if she can find a way to manage that for herself. (Offer to sell her the car outright if she prefers that option.) If you think she is "safe enough" simply charge her the difference btw the 'clean cost' and the 'current cost'. If she won't pay, or if things get worse, tell her to secure her own insurance and you will pay her your contribution directly (the 'clean cost') and she can manage everything for herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Can you drop her if she is insured separately under her own name? I thought that rule was only fir otherwise-uninsured licensed drivers in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Aren't you able to take the vehicle away? Then the cost is at least reduced because she is not the primary driver of that vehicle, she is just a part time driver on one of your vehicles. As long as the car isn't in her name, wouldn't that help? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Yes, but she would not be able to afford her own insurance.Could she afford *not* the total cost for herself in her own name -- but just 'her part' if you paid her the amount you are willing to pay (the 'clean cost') and then she paid the bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Mousie Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 It sounds like you've spoken with her about this numerous times and it hasn't sunk in. I don't think you have any choice at this point but to reclaim your car. I'm sure it will be SO hard to do.... but the alternatives are just too awful to contemplate. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Rebel Yell, on 18 Feb 2016 - 4:56 PM, said: Based on your update, the car and the insurance would no longer be paid for by us. We do not fund intentional stupidity or illegal actions. From the day my girls began studying to get their learner's permit they KNEW the consequences of texting/driving, speeding, disobeying traffic laws, etc. I might give a little bit of grace for a one-time speeding ticket, but continual lack of respect for rules, NO WAY. Even if it hurt their chances at in internship, etc. She can maybe carpool, pay for Uber or a taxi, pay a driver, find an internship along public transportation routes, move to live near an internship. She can make it work if she has to. Or like others have said, loans for education, jobs pay for her car and insurance on her own now. I agree with this except loans to get a car and insurance.I think having to navigate without a car can be a good learning experience. I almost agree with myself too. :huh: :lol: I am not in favor of student loans, but she is already in school. Some programs do not work well going part time- classes are offered on a rotation so there is no margin to take a particular class a different semester. And public transport is iffy in my area. Some neighborhoods, a bus comes by every 5-10 minutes all day long. Mine- a few in morning rush, a few in the evening rush, and then nothing. :cursing: (and just pointing out- I said leans for education, then her current jobs can pay for her new car and insurance on her own, since her current jobs can't support it all.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 The alternative is to drop her from the insurance and she doesn't drive. This will negatively impact her future plans because it will remove her ability to work an internship. There is no public transport or carpool possibility where you are at all? I lived in a suburban town, huge. I had to walk. Is that not possible for her? It might be a hardship but possible? The other possibility would be for her to live at home instead of off campus so she can pay her share of insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 As a fellow driver, I ask you to please get your daughter off the roads if she has repeatedly been an unsafe driver. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 This is definitely how I feel. I do think she is an unsafe driver. As regards the type and frequency of issues, I'll just say there have been multiple instances across several types of irresponsible behavior, and although we have addressed these issues with dd, new instances of irresponsibility/lack of safety seem to continue. It's not just a matter of "your insurance went up, and we don't want to pay." You're in a really tough spot with this issue, and I can see why you're torn. Bottom line for me, though, is that ongoing poor decisions put her at risk... put others at risk... and put YOU at risk because you own the car and the insurance policy. If she's not "getting it," then I'd feel obligated--for everyone's safety--to take back the car. The privilege and convenience of having a parent-funded vehicle and insurance carries obligations, one of which is not to do stupid stuff behind the wheel. Others have suggested driver safety classes and such. Perhaps you can require things like that as a prerequisite to regaining privileges at some future date. Unfortunately, you'll have to deal with the fallout in the meantime. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Even if you can't take her off the insurance, you can take the car. If she's unsafe, you don't have a choice. You're giving her a loaded gun. If she continues to drive and you have any assets, I would add an umbrella policy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Also... can you drive her places? I'm looking for things that might help you maintain your principles but do so in a way that would not really interrupt your daughter's internship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I'd drop her from the insurance. She's an adult. You made a deal. She's failed. She knew how it would impact her, and she didn't care. I'm trying to learn now that I cannot care more about by kid's futures than they do. I'd let her figure it out. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) * Edited February 19, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Since it isn't really her car, I would probably take the car away for a set amount of time, like 1 month or 1 semester, and then give her anothe chance. If she messes up again, I would take it away even longer. The only problem with doing that for my DD is that her college is over 4 hours away. Taking her back and forth to school is a real pain. For our DD, all we have really done is make it very clear yo her that is something happens to "her" car there is no way we can afford to replace it, and it is so old that insurance will not give us much if it is totaled. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Is there other transportation available? Uber? Carpooling? Bus? I'd take the car away for 90 days. Pay the insurance. Make a plan with her to remediate her driving. (I'll add if it has anything to do with alcohol, all bets are off. No car, no help with insurance until she's out of school. Let the chips fall where they may.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 We were able to drop our college student off our car insurance because he lives at school and not at home. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Is there a public transportation system where she lives? If so, I would tell her she had to use that, whether or not she as on my insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 If she isn't safe on the road, I would take the car away. I'm sorry, that is going to suck for her, but lives are at stake. Yup, those of us suffering the consequences of car crashes caused by unsafe (and uninsured) drivers ask you get her off the road until she both takes a driving course and can afford, if not all her own insurances, then at least the difference between what her coverage would be as a good driver and what it is now thanks to her infractions etc. Like if your policy has gone up $80 a month, she has to pay that amount to you. If she complains - hey, let her shop around and price her own policy. Note, once she leaves home (college doesn't count) she does need her own policy, as I understand it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 My kids aren't this age yet, so take that into account but I would be inclined to take the car for a time. You told her she needed to abide by guidelines and she didn't. She may have to get rides from friends in crumby weather but I would let her figure out how to get to and from work. Set up guidelines for earning back her car. The consequences may help her show responsibility in the future. My much younger brother did something really stupid and dangerous in a car when he was about 18. For about 3 years he didn't have a car and had to walk, ride his bike, or bum rides. It was hard on him, but he's also lucky (extremely lucky) no one died and that he didn't end up in jail. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 After I was in an accident in high school, my parents kept me on their policy, but I had to pay my share of it from then on. I had a job at the time. Since she doesn't, that wouldn't be fair, though. You could require her to research and find out whether there is a better deal to be had for the family's insurance. If there is a safe driver course she can take to improve the rate on covering her, have her plan to take that while her college classes are on a break, if she wants to continue to use the family's vehicles and insurance. Another option would be to cut back her access to the vehicle for non-necessary uses, or to require her to contribute labor in kind to the household to make up for the cost of the insurance and/or any vehicle repairs that are a result of her conduct. Maybe make her learn how/change the oil, wash all the family cars once a month, etc. Did y'all not have accident forgiveness on your insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Aren't you able to take the vehicle away? Then the cost is at least reduced because she is not the primary driver of that vehicle, she is just a part time driver on one of your vehicles. As long as the car isn't in her name, wouldn't that help? Not the way our insurance works. As long as there is a vehicle without a primary driver, she would be listed as primary on it. If you have 3 vehicles and three drivers, each is assigned as primary on one car. If you have two vehicles and 3 drivers, the third driver is assigned as a secondary vehicle on the most expensive car (which is often more expensive than paying for them to be primary on a lesser valued third car/we actually keep a clunker car to put ds on as primary driver for this reason/he does not actually drive said vehicle, it sits unused in the driveway at the suggestion of our agent). Different states and companies do have different rules and regulations though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixieB Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 We were able to drop our college student off our car insurance because he lives at school and not at home. This might depend on how far away the school is from your home. At least that is what friends have told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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