madteaparty Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I am talking about people who lie almost spontaneously (about things of little consequence) and for whom lying seems to come as easy as telling the truth. About big things and little things. Sometimes they really believe their own lies, especially about the big things (the small things are usually factual so easier to disprove). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 In my experience, no. But, I have a limited knowledge of these folks. But the ones I knew could never stop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I guess they could if they wanted to, but why would they want to? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 The person I immediately thought of when I read that has not reformed, but he would never admit he lies. From his perspective, what's to reform? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 I guess they could if they wanted to, but why would they want to?Because they are losing their family over it. But they don't believe this. (That it's their fault, that is). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I guess they could if they wanted to, but why would they want to? Especially if it works for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Because they are losing their family over it. But they don't believe this. (That it's their fault, that is). A member of my extended family is like this, and, yes, that person lost their family (us), and this person still to this day thinks they are the one who was wronged. It is so sad. I think they do believe their lies, and they are too narcissistic to see anything beyond themselves. You feel like you are losing your mind when you try to talk to them. It can be pretty toxic. I am so sorry you are dealing with this type of situation. :( 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 You feel like you are losing your mind when you try to talk to them. It can be pretty toxic. . :( Yes! Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think it is possible. Someone I know used to have a problem with telling all sorts of "whoppers". I think she used to do it for attention, to have something interesting to tell. Her life is more interesting now because of her job and I haven't caught her in any lies in several years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 If they recognize that they have a problem, and want to change, and are willing to make a sincere effort, then yes. However, the habitual liars I've known were, frankly, pathological. Most of them had such a shaky relationship with the truth that I'm fairly certain they believed a large portion of their stories. Which means they aren't likely to recognize they have a problem. Without that first step, you do not pass go, you do not collect $200. Incidentally, I find it easiest not to take them too seriously - or to get terribly offended by their lying. It's like getting mad at a cat for scratching the sofa or a three year old for throwing a tantrum. At a certain level, they can't help it. It's sad, really. I just put these people in the box of "untrustworthy" and move on with my life. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Incidentally, I find it easiest not to take them too seriously - or to get terribly offended by their lying. It's like getting mad at a cat for scratching the sofa or a three year old for throwing a tantrum. At a certain level, they can't help it. It's sad, really. I just put these people in the box of "untrustworthy" and move on with my life. One may not always have this luxury, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I used to habitually lie to my parents. I felt they were so controling and would not let me do even reasonable things. So I lied. I constructed a completely different person for them. It was a safety mechanism. They did not really like me, nor did they really know me. It allowed me the ability to figure out who I was in a very unhealthy situation. I realized i was lying, but did not care. I have a feeling that is not the case you are talking about. The only habitual liars I know who have reformed were ones in which the situation or relationship was making them so scared they felt it necessary to hide. They knew what they were doing and it was a conscious choice. My husband honestly believes that he is okay with many things which would be considered liberal. Intellectually, he probably is. Emotionally, and thus in reality, he is not. Emotionally and culturally he is incrediblly conservative and very closed minded. It makes him a habitual liar in many ways, but since he is completely unaware of it, we have just learned to not trust completely. As far as he is concerned, he is being truthful. He also has addiction issues that he doesn't see or want to address either. In my experience the two go hand in hand a lot. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 One of my uncle and his wife lie all the time for their benefit. One of their son does that too. Extended family are used to translating their doublespeak so no one cares unless the liars overstep the boundaries e.g. lying about my grandma's will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 In my experience, no. I have a brother like this and honestly even when they are telling the truth you can never fully trust that they are. In my family we always say " Well " brother" said this..but you know what he is like...so we will see if it is true or not". He's been like that since his 20's and he is close to 40 now. It's like he started out lying when he was into drugs and in trouble with police and everyone else you can think of and then even when he eventually straightened his life out he still has to lie about everything because his past keeps coming back to bite him in the butt. It is really embarrassing when your brother is giving you a ride in the car and you get pulled over by the police and discover your brother has no licence... especially when it's the middle of the night, you have three sleeping kids in the car and you have to call someone to get you because you can't drive a manual car. I guess I was the stupid one...I know what he is like... I should have asked outright if he had a licence instead of assuming he did becuase he was driving everywhere. Once they get tangled up in lies it's very hard to stop lying because you have to keep lying about the lies. It has alienated his family, my other brother and wife don't talk to him. My mum and I do..he's actually a good guy, but we know we can't believe a word he says. I would never leave my kids with him...and he knows it. Not that he is irresponsible with them but there has to be a certain level of trust there and there definately isn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Yes, they can reform. I've only seen it when a person was saved by God and became a Christ Follower. It was an overnight and thus far permanent change, going on nine years. Lying, even by exaggerating, is complete anathema to them now. Short of that, I truly haven't seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 it's possible - but it would take a real change of heart on their part, and recognition *and admission* of their previous behavior for what it is, to even begin to change. so, I think the likelihood is low. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Because they are losing their family over it. But they don't believe this. (That it's their fault, that is). Hmm. Family v Ego. Nup. Not a good enough reason! The only pathological liars I have in my family circle are narcissists. I only put up with one because I have no choice. The other lost me. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TianXiaXueXiao Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think they *can* change but I think the majority don't. I was once married to a pathological liar. He would lie about everything from telling a cabbie he was from a city he's not from (spontaneously and in front of me) to getting up everyday and pretending to go to a job he didn't really have. It took me a while to connect the dots and realize he wasn't just a harmless, practical jokester. He was a liar and nothing he said could be trusted. I don't know if he's narcissistic. He is odd. He takes really good care of people at a physical level and seems to sincerely care for others, but he can't tell the truth to save his life. He's like the good bad guy or the bad good guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Yes, but they have to recognize the problem and want to change. It's not easy to do, but it can be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think it depends on the person, and the reasons. Some people can, but never will, some people may not be able to or be able to recognize the problem. Totally apart from whatever starts the problem, long established habits are hard to break. Someone up-thread said they see this in connection with addicts, and that has also been my experience. I think that in many instances impulse control may be part of that. I have family members like that. I try not to take it personally. I tend to always take them at face value unless it is actually a practical issue I have to deal with, and don't choose to see their behavior as reflective of me or their relationship to me. And I think its a rather sad state and stressful in itself anyway. I did at one time know a fellow who didn't conform to that description who lied all the time - he was the first boy I ever kissed. I eventually came to the conclusion he was a psychopath or sociopath. I can't see him changing, he was missing something important in his head IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (Not to derail the conversation but... As a Christian I wish I could say that I've seen the complete 180 that Arctic Momma mentions, but I haven't. They learned to default to a state of lying, and it takes time to break that habit. The difference is that they try hard not to, and when they slip, they will quickly admit it. The temptation is always there, even if they are handling it better. Conversion isn't magic - it still requires work to make the right choices.) 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 If it's pathological, you can't just stop doing it. People can go through intense therapy, take meds if appropriate, and work very hard to change. However, I'd say the ones whose pathology is underlaid with a personality disorder such as narcissism would be unlikely to make lasting changes. They learn to lie in new and different ways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegs Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I used to lie very consistently if people phoned early enough to wake me. I'd lie every time and say that I had not been asleep. I don't know why! When I became aware that I was doing this, I verbalised my sudden realisation to a friend (who laughed and said it's probably not uncommon), and I decided not to do it any more. So I don't. I also said a lot of untrue stuff when I was in the prodromal phase of my first episode psychosis. There were strange ideas taking hold in me, and like many other thoughts, some of them made it out of my mouth. Unfortunately, people were in the habit of taking me seriously, and I lost relationships which had been very important to me because people felt that I'd deceived them. I don't share much of my inner life anymore, lest loved ones should have big emotional responses to my words and then feel manipulated. It gets a bit lonely. I try not to take other people's lies personally, because I can empathise with the desire to share one's (unusual) experience of the world with another person, even if only for a short time. Personally, I don't feel the need to share deeply emotional experiences with others, but I understand that others do, and that one way to do this is through making emotionally loaded statements, be they true or not. I'd hate to live like that, and I feel for people who do. I imagine I'd find it very hard to confront my own shame if I'd been manipulative and deceitful - it would be difficult to acknowledge this in order to choose differently. My midnight ramblings, for whatever they're worth. Please don't quote. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think they can, but as some have stated, why bother. I also believe more habitual liars really don't see the lies they tell, or they lie out of good intentions - "I would have told you, but you'd have been hurt." They justify the lie in their mind. Even if they do reform, the challenge is trust. There are a few people who I never take at their word because of past lies. They broke my trust in horrible ways and I had to remove them from being in life on a daily basis. The challenge I had when I was around them is that it just rips the healing scab off old wounds. The human part of me wants to believe what they are saying because I do believe in second chances. My brain knows there is a high probability what they're saying is not going to happen, even if they sound well-intentioned. As someone else stated, when you have those resentful thoughts, you can stop and mentally put them away. Some days I don't and I wallow it that anger for a few moments. Then I realize that that person is not longer controlling my thoughts and actions and I have the choice whether to let them continue, even if I'm not around them all the time. It's a process that took me a few years to get to. Having someone to vent to helps. I had another family member that knew the details and I would share anything with and did. There were times I'd call them just to vent, they'd listen, make some remarks and then I'd feel better. If you don't have someone like that, perhaps a counselor would be in order. Saying how you really feel with no repercussions is very cathartic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Do you follow politics? 😜 Seriously, though, look at how many politicians get caught in stupid lies about stupid things and yet continue lying. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Somewhere during my transition from teen to adult, and from atheist to Christain belever. I stopped being that kind of liar. However, I am still occasionally a "well-intentioned" liar, occasionally with some of the same characteristics -- but much less often, and usually with aims more like (1) 'simplifying' or 'enhancing' a story to make a point more clear, if my point is supposed to be clear and helpful. (God and I are still working on that one. It's not ok to mix help with deception even if it works.) or (2) preservation of my privacy from intrusive people, that blends into preservation of self-image for a general circle of people. (I don't enjoy over-disclosure, or any that shows me in an unflattering light. I'm looking for a good boundary there, between what's sensible and what's dishonourable and deceptive.) So, I think this means that an actual change in personal values / sense of honour will change whether a person like this wants to lie... And why they want to lie... And makes a huge difference in how much they lie... But it doesn't take the tool completely out of the tool box. (At least not yet.) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think they can, but as some have stated, why bother. I also believe more habitual liars really don't see the lies they tell, or they lie out of good intentions - "I would have told you, but you'd have been hurt." They justify the lie in their mind. Even if they do reform, the challenge is trust. There are a few people who I never take at their word because of past lies. They broke my trust in horrible ways and I had to remove them from being in life on a daily basis. The challenge I had when I was around them is that it just rips the healing scab off old wounds. The human part of me wants to believe what they are saying because I do believe in second chances. My brain knows there is a high probability what they're saying is not going to happen, even if they sound well-intentioned. As someone else stated, when you have those resentful thoughts, you can stop and mentally put them away. Some days I don't and I wallow it that anger for a few moments. Then I realize that that person is not longer controlling my thoughts and actions and I have the choice whether to let them continue, even if I'm not around them all the time. It's a process that took me a few years to get to. Having someone to vent to helps. I had another family member that knew the details and I would share anything with and did. There were times I'd call them just to vent, they'd listen, make some remarks and then I'd feel better. If you don't have someone like that, perhaps a counselor would be in order. Saying how you really feel with no repercussions is very cathartic. Thank you. This and the analogy upthread of getting mad at a cat for scratching are helping me. They can't help being like that. I guess I am the one that needs to take action. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think one can change only if extremely motivated. Even loss of family may not prompt some people to stop. But if anything were to change someone I think loss of someone important *may* prompt a change. Lies have distanced me from some family members and feel disrespect for them. They also cause strain in other relationships. They are good teaching points for my DC as when a lie is discovered it shows how negatively it affects me/us, how it causes further problems, how it destroys relationships, etc. I expect truthfulness from DC and when lies are told they get a punishment as I don't want them acting that way when they are older (assuming I can help prevent that with parenting). I also model truthfulness and if I feel being truthful is too harmful I follow the "don't say anything at all" rule. It's hard having relationships like that because you really can't trust the liar at all. :( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I have a relative who was like that, who I knew as a little boy. He used to outright lie all the time. It baffled me how his parents just accepted the lies, because when he was real young his lies were obvious. I guess they thought it was too much work to correct him each time. So he continued all throughout his growing up years and then some. It wasn't over anything major though, as far as I know -- like saying he was going to work but really not. But I'm fairly certain it was just as easy for him to lie about something than not lie, and that he probably didn't even know where the line was anymore. He is now nearly 40 now and I don't detect that he is lying anymore. However, his personality has morphed into something else that is very unusual. He met someone with narcissistic personality disorder and married her, and she pretty much controls every aspect of his life. So since then, he doesn't seem to lie anymore, but now he has completely lost who he is. It is pretty sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I have a relative who was like that, who I knew as a little boy. He used to outright lie all the time. It baffled me how his parents just accepted the lies, because when he was real young his lies were obvious. I guess they thought it was too much work to correct him each time. More likely, they thought it was just a phase or dismissed it as "all kids lie--he'll grow out of it." I admit I get very uncomfortable with that line of thought expressed on various threads about lying here because I've seen adults who never grew out of it. The pattern of behavior and compulsion to lie got worse with time, not better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 We have a distant family member who is like that. Thank goodness we live very far, so we are not affected by it. It is very sad, I never believe anything that comes from her. I really think it's some sort of condition...otherwise I just don't understand how someone can lie so much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 In my very limited experience, no. But in this particular instance, the person doesn't believe she needs to change. Fortunately, she lives half way across the country from me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) nm Edited December 2, 2015 by ^ 022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 I've never seen one change and I've known a few. I do think it's possible - but very unlikely without some major, life-changing upheaval. I heard someone say once that habitual liars who are comfortable with their lying will yield to almost any temptation. Mostly, because they have no fear of being discovered. If they think they're close to being caught, they just make up another lie - and another, and another, and .... it never ends. And they're so darned good at it, too. Who even has the energy to wade through all those lies seeking the truth ... One of the worst things in dealing with these people is that they seem to feel no shame or remorse. Even their apologies, if caught and confronted, are often lies. The whole thing is a house of cards. I avoid them if I can. And if I have to interact with them, I keep it all superficial and don't take much of anything they say seriously. Good luck. Yes, I know. It's to the point where I don't ask a question when I know the answer will be a lie, or am lied to and don't confront, because the stuff that comes out of their mouth to cover up the initial lie is even more far fetched and truly crazy-making. Argh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Yes, I know. It's to the point where I don't ask a question when I know the answer will be a lie, or am lied to and don't confront, because the stuff that comes out of their mouth to cover up the initial lie is even more far fetched and truly crazy-making. Argh. And even more insulting to your intelligence for the liar to think you could possibly believe the story being spun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tita Gidge Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I think they can, but I imagine it's rare for one to do so. I also think there are different kinds of people habitually lying for different kinds of reasons. So that would definitely factor into whether or not one could or might be "rehabilitated" IYKWIM. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I'm not sure. We have a family member (not too close, thank goodness) like this and everyone avoids him like the plague. I doubt if he could change if he wanted to since he has been like this his whole life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollie010 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I guess I will chime in, even if it does reveal quite a bit. But, I am a reformed liar. :001_smile: Some of my earliest memories in childhood are of telling lies to classmates. Looking back I don't think I was mean spirited, I just really liked the time and attention that came my way if my life story was way more exciting than my reality. There were some pretty significant hurts that I was dealing with and it was just easier that way. I wanted to be someone different than I was so I just made it up. I think it was in my blood as a few of my family members were and continue to be pathological in their lies. I am not sure where I would have fallen, but the pattern of lying continued for me into early adulthood. I lied for attention, I lied to get out of trouble, I lied when I was bored and needed a good story to tell. I lied about significant things and insignificant things. I thought I was good at it and most of the time I thought I was smart enough to straighten out any situation with the right lie. Maybe it was a form of control. I am not really sure. The year that I turned 21, I stood telling a made up tail to a brilliant professor and I saw in his eyes for the first time that someone knew I was lying. I am sure others before him had know that I was lying, but he was the first one that I could tell knew. He had a look of disgust on his face. I was so embarrassed that someone I respected knew. I could have stood there in front of him and continued to talk myself out of the situation, but I walked out. That night I made the decision to cease the craziness. I would not lie any longer. While I was thinking through this change that night, I had to come to terms with how I would deal with lies from the past if they came up. I decided that if I was asked about a particular issue that was based on a previous lie, I would just clear the air no matter how embarrassing. And I did. That was it. That was the end of lying and exaggerating. I moved forward in honesty. I admit that I was kind of boring for a while. I had always been a good story teller and missed having the chance to take center stage. But, overtime, real and interesting experiences came into my life and I had a new round of actual stories to tell. I still have a lot of stories swarming around in my head. I write it down now and think it may make a good book someday, for a different main character. :) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Lying like that is usually either associated with narcissism or antisocial personality disorder. Neither disorder has a high rate of change because the person doesn't see they have a problem. It's other people who have the problem. The underlying thing that has to change for either of those is the deeply ingrained belief that "It's all about me" and "I deserve to get what I want." Lying is a servant to those beliefs. So that's where change would need to come. To give up lying would be "irrational" otherwise. If for some reason lying were an isolated issue, I would give a higher possibility that the person would/could change. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Lollie010: Thank you for telling us your experience. I really admire you for changing and for sharing the story with us! :grouphug: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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