Is this asking too much of my kids?

[lovinmyboys]

So all these big family threads got me a little nervous. I only have 4 kids, but it is usually just me here with them. This summer my 9yr old has been showering with the 5yr old and the 7yr old has been taking a bath with the 3yr old and washing him up. This has helped me so, so much. I can clean up dinner, put laundry away, get ready to put them in bed, etc.

 

But, a common theme in the large family threads was that older kids shouldn't be doing daily care of younger ones. I have also seen some people on homeschoolers anonymous writing negatively about having to bathe younger siblings. How do you decide how much is too much in care for younger siblings (right now my older kids pretty much just bathe the littler ones and maybe occasionally watch the 3yr old in the backyard and haven't complained about either).

[Aelwydd]

I don't really understand the spate of recent threads about large families (by big family posters, no less).

 

But IMO, as long as they are prepubescent, I think it's a rather efficient use of resources. The only thing that gives me pause is the slight risk of abuse. The recent threads on sibling sex abuse, thanks to the Duggars, made me realize how statistically prevalent incest is.

 

It's a risk in all families, big and small, religious and secular, and all races and languages. That would be my only caution: no more shared shower a when puberty begins and also to be vigilant for signs of abuse, even though I'm sure it's a small possibility.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Personally, that gives me pause.  I would rather they help out in other ways.  (Just my opinion which I am only voicing because you specifically asked).  

[maize]

My advice is just to keep open communication with each child so you know how they feel about things. I believe that not feeling like one has a voice or any control is a bigger problem than having responsibilities. Family responsibilities can have the effect of helping kids feel needed and capable.

 

One thing to watch out for with siblings is making sure relationships remain on the peer/friend/mentor levels as much as possible. If a child is being pushed or is personally inclined to take on a true parental role for a sibling that is often not healthy. I don't think bathing or other small assistance kinds of things are problematic, but expecting or being expected to correct behavior or to discipline raises all kinds of issues and is likely to result in resentment all around.

[Truscifi]

Brotherman supervises Babyman in the bathtub by sitting in the door reading. I go in and do the actual bathing after he is done playing.

[Tap]

I would not have one child bathe another child. I would not put one child in place of a parent when it comes to touching or rubbing of bodies.  For me, that would include: diapers/potty training, wiping bottoms, bathing, getting underwear on,  putting on sun screen/lotion, etc. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes or so to do the actual washing part of taking a bath, so I guess I don't understand why it would really be all that much help anyways. 

 

Have them unload the dishwasher, swifter the floor, vacuum, dust, take out the garbage, prepare the salad for dinner,etc.  There are so many other things that they can do, I would find some other way they can help instead. 

 

If you really need bath time help. maybe have the older one get the water started and any toys out. Then you go do the bath part.  

[bolt.]

I think it's inappropriate type of inter-sibling responsibility, because it involves personal care. I think (ideally) that kind of care should come from a parent -- or a care-giving adult with some level of "bonding." Part A: I think small naked people deserve caring attention from a capable adult (siblings can perfunctory, bossy or insensitive due to immaturity). Part B: I think that the personal bodily care of another person has an intimacy and a level of dependance that shouldn't fall on anyone's shoulders until they have children of their own.

 

However, I think daily evening bathing/showering is terribly inefficient and really hard on parents. As a cultural norm, I think it's dumb. I don't know who invented the idea that babies "should" be bathed before bed on a nightly basis -- but I suspect it was the makers of baby shampoo. That this carries on to older children as a habit and routine makes sense in a way... but it's not like they need it. It defies logic to clean people who are already mostly clean, everyday, at the end, when parents are running on empty.

 

Kids are fine to shower every 2, 3 or 4 days. (So are most adults... but that's another thread.) And it can be done at any time of day. We work it into the mid-afternoon 'quiet time'. Maybe, for you, one child at a time showers while the others rest, two per day?

[Rachel]

It doesn't sound like you are expecting too much although the 7 and 9 year old may prefer more privacy in bathing, if you respect that I think you are fine. I was about 9 when I no longer wanted to bathe with siblings, my oldest is 7 and no longer wants to be seen naked by other family members although I do think he would still take a bath with the three year old if I wasn't in the room.

 

I'm the oldest of 6 I was only resentful of helping out when that prevented me from having a social life. Childcare of siblings wasn't a major issue since 5 of us were within 3 years of age. However my mom also ran a daycare. While in high school I was expected to help with the daycare whenever I wasn't doing homework. That prevented me from hanging out with friends or participating in social activities (although I did participate in band and several sports because that got me out of the house).

 

My sister and I didn't mind doing the grocery shopping, meal planning, or occasional babysitting of our youngest brother. The cleaning was an issue, we had a big house and mom wanted it spotless every morning. She also wanted the sidewalks and driveway shoveled before the first child arrived, we were resentful of those types of duties. My mom felt at the time she was reasonable, any family with a business would require their children to help. However, I also had a part time job working 25 hours a week. She had similar expectations of my one sister but not of the younger siblings until we moved out. She also didn't think we did that much around the house until we moved out. Looking back she realizes her expectations were high but she can't change the past.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Things I didn't mind doing for my sisters would include bathing them, making sure they didn't get soap in their eyes, drying them off, playing and being silly, spending part of  the afternoon watching them while I got to read.

 

 For me, the problems were constant care while my mom worked in the garden, cleaned the kitchen or was ill (she has a debilitating intermittent issue that lasts for weeks at a time).  Even bigger was that I had to keep the house clean, farm animals fed and cleaned up after, and oversee the sisters and make sure they did their part, they're whiners :glare: .  I wasn't allowed to discipline them and if I told on them I got yelled at.  I hated that there was no privacy, no down time, never a moment spent alone. I was so busy with them and chores that I rarely spent any time with friends.  When I moved out, at 17, I spent 1/2 my time running wild with friends or alone holed up in my room(the silence was amazing!).  Much of this was because of my parents and their parenting style.  The part that seems common in many families is expecting a pre-teen/teen to do the job of a missing or overworked parent.  This situation often leaves them feeling "used" and younger's feeling "ignored".  So how to make sure, IMO, that you don't overwhelm them?  Make sure they know how much you appreciate the help and once a week or so give them the night off.  

 

These are just my opinions based on my personal experiences YMMV :001_smile:

 

ETA: I agree with bolt, daily bathing is not necessary. I always washed the kids' faces, hands, and feet (in that order) before bed but bathes were about every 3-4 days.  My children both have allergies that bathing exacerbates but even if they didn't, I wouldn't give baths every day. 

[lovinmyboys]

Personally, that gives me pause. I would rather they help out in other ways. (Just my opinion which I am only voicing because you specifically asked).

Yes, I would like opinions. Can you tell me why you would rather they help in other ways? Honestly, I hadn't even thought of it being a problem until I read people suggesting it may be a problem. I would like to think thru it more.

 

Since I am mostly solo parenting with very little support, I worry that I may miss something obvious. Back in the day when I lived with Dh full time, near family, and attended mommy and me playgroups I felt like I had a pretty good read on "normal." Now, I still think I am doing ok, but it is nice to have some outside perspectives (if that makes sense).

[Farrar]

I think it's okay. I especially think it's fine to have one of the older kids help the 3 yo because I would think the 3 yo would need a little help still. I guess I would just not want that to be the norm forever. I mean, it feels uncomfortable when part of your chores is showering together. That's just... uncomfortable because you have to. When kids shower off together because they're little and they want to, that's different. Or helping a toddler/preschooler sibling with a bath, that's also different - that *is* like a babysitting chore.

 

Other options... shower less. ;)

 

But there are other things they could do... unload the dishwasher, take out the recycling or trash, sweep the floors, clear the table for everyone, bag up the yard waste... I mean, probably not the 3 yo, but the others could do those sorts of things. And I think it's okay for mind the 3 yo or make sure the 3 yo got dressed or whatever be a daily routine task for someone.

 

Then again, I don't have a big family, so take it with a grain of salt...

[texasmama]

I would not personally feel comfortable doing this.  When my three littles were littles (5,3,1), I used to toss them all in the six foot tub together and bathe them.  I did the bathing and supervising, though.

 

There is a ten year gap between my oldest and youngest, and my oldest did some diaper changing, holding, bathing, etc.  of her little sister.

 

I've always been careful not to put any of my kids in a parental role that they might resent.  That doesn't mean their childhoods are/were resentment-free, just that I tried.

 

[bettyandbob]

My dc have had household chores. They have done occassional (not regular ) babysitting of my youngest. Youngest has disabilities and last thing I want is for my dc to adults a resentful of their younger brother -- he will need all the advocates he can get. I've been very conscious of how much actual childcare my olders have done. I'd rather have them do household chores while I get chilcare done. I take youngest on errands (yes, it's a pain). I am permitted to bring him to one of my jobs. I have sought out inexpensive programs like the on ds is going to this summer so his needs are covered while I work. If I'm not at work, having ds in such a program allows me to get one on one time with the older dc.

 

Diaper changing, toilet supervision and baths would all be things I avoided having older siblings do.

 

I won't know if my approach worked until they are fully launched, which will be several years. YMMV

[Truscifi]

Yes, I would like opinions. Can you tell me why you would rather they help in other ways? Honestly, I hadn't even thought of it being a problem until I read people suggesting it may be a problem. I would like to think thru it more.

 

Since I am mostly solo parenting with very little support, I worry that I may miss something obvious. Back in the day when I lived with Dh full time, near family, and attended mommy and me playgroups I felt like I had a pretty good read on "normal." Now, I still think I am doing ok, but it is nice to have some outside perspectives (if that makes sense).

 

Well, for me it is not an issue of not being comfortable with the big one bathing the little, it is that we tried it and he did a terrible job. He helps in lots of ways, but hygiene is not his strong suit for himself, much less someone else. 

[Truscifi]

Things I didn't mind doing for my sisters would include bathing them, making sure they didn't get soap in their eyes, drying them off, playing and being silly, spending part of  the afternoon watching them while I got to read.

 

 For me, the problems were constant care while my mom worked in the garden, cleaned the kitchen or was ill (she has a debilitating intermittent issue that lasts for weeks at a time).  Even bigger was that I had to keep the house clean, farm animals fed and cleaned up after, and oversee the sisters and make sure they did their part, they're whiners :glare: .  I wasn't allowed to discipline them and if I told on them I got yelled at.  I hated that there was no privacy, no down time, never a moment spent alone. I was so busy with them and chores that I rarely spent any time with friends.  When I moved out, at 17, I spent 1/2 my time running wild with friends or alone holed up in my room(the silence was amazing!).  Much of this was because of my parents and their parenting style.  The part that seems common in many families is expecting a pre-teen/teen to do the job of a missing or overworked parent.  This situation often leaves them feeling "used" and younger's feeling "ignored".  So how to make sure, IMO, that you don't overwhelm them?  Make sure they know how much you appreciate the help and once a week or so give them the night off.  

 

These are just my opinions based on my personal experiences YMMV :001_smile:

 

ETA: I agree with bolt, daily bathing is not necessary. I always washed the kids' faces, hands, and feet (in that order) before bed but bathes were about every 3-4 days.  My children both have allergies that bathing exacerbates but even if they didn't, I wouldn't give baths every day. 

 

I do think it is important not to overload older kids. Brotherman does help a lot but I make sure he has a couple hours a day set aside for free time with no responsibilities. Sometimes he has to sacrifice that for a theatre gig, but that is always his decision.

[Guest]

So all these big family threads got me a little nervous. I only have 4 kids, but it is usually just me here with them. This summer my 9yr old has been showering with the 5yr old and the 7yr old has been taking a bath with the 3yr old and washing him up. This has helped me so, so much. I can clean up dinner, put laundry away, get ready to put them in bed, etc.

 

But, a common theme in the large family threads was that older kids shouldn't be doing daily care of younger ones. I have also seen some people on homeschoolers anonymous writing negatively about having to bathe younger siblings. How do you decide how much is too much in care for younger siblings (right now my older kids pretty much just bathe the littler ones and maybe occasionally watch the 3yr old in the backyard and haven't complained about either).

My kids are sweet helpers. I let them know how much I qppreciate their gentleness toward their siblings and urge them to that. And they're so generous in helping me. We get a little whining, but overall they're cheerful helpers.

 

We all have to work to make the family work. This is the way it is, and even if we had a smaller family it would be true. My boundary is not making them parent. Little chores and responsibility are good for them, but they're children and do not deserve the weight of responsibility a capable adult shoulders. I try to be fair to them, give them very small and doable tasks, and work alongside them. I rotate who does what, too, and assign tasks by the smallest person who can do it, not the biggest, to not overload my olders.

 

I try not to lose sleep over horror stories about other big families. Asking my older children to buckle a car seat I cannot easily reach isn't shirking my parenting duties. Neither is your child helping a sibling with a bath. It's ONE job. If he is enjoying it I wouldn't worry. But be aware of how much you're shifting onto them and try to be fair, equitable, and respectful of them as people. They're not slaves, they're children. YOUR children. At the end of the day if you keep that in perspective I think you'll be just fine. You're not kicking back while they slave away ;)

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, I would like opinions. Can you tell me why you would rather they help in other ways? Honestly, I hadn't even thought of it being a problem until I read people suggesting it may be a problem. I would like to think thru it more.

 

Since I am mostly solo parenting with very little support, I worry that I may miss something obvious. Back in the day when I lived with Dh full time, near family, and attended mommy and me playgroups I felt like I had a pretty good read on "normal." Now, I still think I am doing ok, but it is nice to have some outside perspectives (if that makes sense).

As others have mentioned, there is an intimacy in bathing someone else.  My older child did supervise my younger (I only have two) by sitting in the doorway as someone else mentioned upthread.  

[Catwoman]

My brother and SIL had four children and the older ones were never responsible for the personal care of their younger siblings. My brother and SIL always believed that the parents take care of the kids, and the kids get to be kids. They didn't think it was fair to farm off their own parental responsibilities to their older children.

 

I know other families have different beliefs, though.

[Guest]

My brother and SIL had four children and the older ones were never responsible for the personal care of their younger siblings. My brother and SIL always believed that the parents take care of the kids, and the kids get to be kids. They didn't think it was fair to farm off their own parental responsibilities to their older children.

 

I know other families have different beliefs, though.

We feel that way, too, but the OP mentioned solo parenting. As a longer term issue that can make things tricky. I know my kids and I both have to work much harder when daddy is away, simply because I'm one person and the toddler is an evil genius. I think one has to work much harder to not overwork kids when an adult is missing, but it's still very possible :)

[Aelwydd]

I am the oldest of three sisters. When growing up, I was mostly responsible for the care of myself and the middle sister.  This started when I was 10 years old, and my sister was 7.  It also started because I specifically requested from my dad that we be allowed to stay home and be latch key kids (youngest sister was with a daycare), because I hated the feeling of being foisted upon babysitters.  I convinced him I was old enough and mature enough to get me and my sister both ready for school in the mornings and take care of each other afterwards.

 

So, each morning my alarm would go off at about 6:30, and I'd get up, find clothes for myself, my sister, and go make us breakfast (usually simple, like oatmeal), and pack our lunches, get our things together, and then walk the half mile to the bus stop.  After school, we'd walk back together, and do our homework, then we could go play.  We were restricted to the backyard or sometimes at a neighbor's house because his mom was a SAHM.

 

I did not and don't feel resentful of that portion of sibling care.  It was freeing to be able to do our own routine without being dragged to some overworked home daycare house with 6 toddlers and babies underfoot.

 

What I didn't like was as we got older, my parents sometimes did take advantage of my "maturity" as the oldest, and expect me to come home from school (this was a high schooler), clean house, study, and help with dinner.  This, in addition to a part time job. I did join a few high school activities, but I was limited to my parents' busy work schedules and demands.

 

Our upbringing wasn't the best (there was unfortunately, some emotional/ physical abuse at times), but it wasn't terrible either.  My parents did at least tell me how much they appreciated my help, and they would listen to my opinion in some big decision affecting the family.  I felt listened to FTMP.

 

So, with me, it was a mixed bag being the oldest.  But, I only had 2 younger siblings and I did get a car and was granted some independence.  Also, my parents both worked full time jobs, so that affects my opinion, in that it's not as if I had a SAHM or SAHD that was so busy with their stuff, or just so lazy and self-absorbed, that they had me raising my siblings in the background. We understood that my parents had to work, and because my mom worked for an airline, it meant we did get to take a lot of weekend trips and we did Disney a couple of times. 

 

I guess my point is, if there's to be responsibility, let there be some reward there.  Also, respect individual differences.  I was ready at 10 to be autonomous and to watch myself and my sister because I was done with being shuttled off to the babysitter's at ass 'o clock in the mornings before school. I craved that independence.  But my younger sister would have been somewhat lost and intimidated and scared at that age to do the same.  As I got older, and the youngest sister was added to the mix, it got unpleasant because when those two fought, guess who got to the be the parent and step in?  It wasn't a good dynamic at that point.

 

But, I'm not bitter about that, although I feel somewhat wistful about missed opportunities in some regards.  These were mostly related to my parents' religious values though, such as the prohibition to dance (I would have liked to take dance classes), and so forth.

 

Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful to you, OP.  I agree with others that daily bathing is not so important for the youngers.  I still don't see it as particularly onerous to help a younger sibling bathe once every 2 or 3 days, so long as the older sib gets some privacy time when he/ she starts craving it.  But, you see from my background, that I was considerably more involved in the day-to-day tasks for myself and my sister when I was growing up.  YMMV.

[Plink]

 This summer my 9yr old has been showering with the 5yr old and the 7yr old has been taking a bath with the 3yr old and washing him up. 

 

I want to make sure I understand what you said.  Are the kids really showering WITH the younger?  As in, both are not clothed and sharing a bathing space?  That would bother me because the 7 and 9yo are old enough to need their own privacy.  

[Kathryn]

I have 9 and 5yo boys. I cannot imagine expecting the 9yo to physically bathe his brother. They've bathed together a few times the past year. But, my 9yo does not touch his brother in that way. With both of them, I have showered with them up to age five, at which point I began teaching them to wash themselves. My current 5yo can now do a fairly good job on his own but I still help him sometimes or shower with him if we are in a hurry. As others said, they only bathe about twice a week, though the 9yo is starting to need more. But at 7, 5, and 3, they should be fine with washing hands, feet, and faces most days.

I also don't have the older do diaper changes or potty help. Both because of the intimacy of those acts and because 9yos (and younger) aren't the most meticulous.

[AK_Mom4]

I wouldn't do the bathing thing - and here's why.

 

If they get to playing in the tub and 3yo falls over and hits his head, you are relying on a 7yo to not panic, feel like it was their fault, run and hide or any of half a dozen possibly catastrophic choices.  I don't think 7yos should have that level of responsibility over a 3yo they can't possibly control.

 

Having an older kid watch from the door and ready to call you in case of a problem?  That's fine.   But 7 is very little to be the "adult" supervision for a 3yo in a tub.

[Kathryn]

Also, my 9yo can clean the dishes. He doesn't load the dishwasher but he can unload. He does his own laundry. He and his 5yo brother can clean the house: pick up, dust, clean their room, make their beds, etc. He can vacuum. I'm totally not against delegating, I just feel that bathing someone is an intimate act that shouldn't be entrusted to a young sibling. Your 9 and 7yos are plenty old enough to help you with the chores that you've been getting done while they've been bathing the youngers so that you can do that instead.

[Gentlemommy]

I have three girls, 10, 7, and 4. I solo parent quite a bit with Dh traveling for work. For a while, dd's 1 and 2 showered together, each washing their own body and hair. I showered with littlest dd. Recently dd1 has been wanting a shower alone, so she does that. Dd2 does not want to shower alone, so she now showers with little dd, each of them washing their own body. I will still shower with little dd twice a week to wash her hair (she tries when it's just her and her sister, but doesn't do a good job quite yet). At any point, they can shower alone though.

They all do help in other ways...this family simply could not function without everyone pitching in. They pick up their own things every day and put them away. They help unload and load the dishwasher, switch the laundry, feed and water the dogs, sweep, wipe the tables, cook, vacuum, dust, wipe windows, and everyone sorts and folds their own laundry (I hang little Dd's things, but she puts her pajamas and panties away). I'm not sitting on my butt watching tv while they work, we are all working together. Sometimes I partner little dd with an older sibling for chore time, however most of the time she's with me. No one is allowed to discipline anyone else, and all problems are brought to me. Yes, sometimes I tell them they can work it out, but I supervise to make sure it's a fair working out, and not an older sibling taking advantage of a younger one, or the little one having a fit to get her own way. They all have vastly different personalities, and I try to work with their individual bent-in chores, sibling relationships, school, extracurriculars, ect.

My oldest is naturally very compliant, craves alone time and quiet to do her own thing, and would have been happiest as an only child. My middle is a huge extrovert who needs someone with her at all times lol. This sometimes causes issues between the two, because all middle dd ever wants to do is be with big dd. She can be annoying to try and get big dd's attention. At the same time, big dd can be oblivious to shutting her sister out. Little dd is, well 4, and also has some behavior issues. She isn't the easiest going kiddo, and often needs my help navigating life.

They all have their own room, and are allowed to go in there at any time and everyone else must respect their need for privacy. No one is required to play with anyone else, though I do point out if someone is feeling lonely or left out and give ideas on how to resolve the issue.

I try my very best, but I'm not fooling myself in thinking they will always be happy with the way things are. I'm sure they will have resentment in one way or another. I'm sure they will swear to do things totally different with their own kids. 😉 I do want them to feel listened to, and I have asked them for their opinion on how I'm doing as a mom. They are free to come up with ideas or air their complaints about things, and we can try to find better solutions. Sometimes we do, sometimes we just suck it up and deal.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Yeah, I don't think a 7 year-old is mature enough to supervise the bathtime of anyone. I don't think all of them can even watch themselves in the tub, let alone a preschooler.

[Reefgazer]

I don't think helping out around the house is off limits; but running a huge portion of the house should be unacceptable.  it seems asking kids to do a few things (like bathe a younger, or take out the garbage, or mop the floors, etcc) is not excessive.  If your kids complain about the amount of work, then I think it's worth taking a second look at what they are asked to do.

[Wabi Sabi]

I wouldn't have a problem with what you described at your sons' given ages. 

FWIW, I am the oldest of eight kids. I certainly know what it means to have to take care of younger siblings. There are many things about my childhood that were less than ideal, but helping out with the younger kids is something I don't resent at all. There's a difference, IMO, between an older sibling helping out with a few things versus expecting the older children to basically run the household. I see nothing wrong with the former. 

[Wabi Sabi]

I have 9 and 5yo boys. I cannot imagine expecting the 9yo to physically bathe his brother. They've bathed together a few times the past year. But, my 9yo does not touch his brother in that way. With both of them, I have showered with them up to age five, at which point I began teaching them to wash themselves. My current 5yo can now do a fairly good job on his own but I still help him sometimes or shower with him if we are in a hurry. As others said, they only bathe about twice a week, though the 9yo is starting to need more. But at 7, 5, and 3, they should be fine with washing hands, feet, and faces most days.

I also don't have the older do diaper changes or potty help. Both because of the intimacy of those acts and because 9yos (and younger) aren't the most meticulous.

My kids bathed together around those ages. My older child certainly never washed his younger siblings's private areas, if that's what you mean by "in that way." Heck, at 5 y/o, *I* no longer needed to do that kind of intimate care for either of my children; they were taught to do it themselves. Helping a sibling with a bath means handing them the soap, grabbing them a washcloth if they need to wipe their eyes, reaching the shampoo that is just out of reach for them, calling for me when it's time for a final rinse, etc. 

[Kathryn]

My kids bathed together around those ages. My older child certainly never washed his younger siblings's private areas, if that's what you mean by "in that way." Heck, at 5 y/o, *I* no longer needed to do that kind of intimate care for either of my children; they were taught to do it themselves. Helping a sibling with a bath means handing them the soap, grabbing them a washcloth if they need to wipe their eyes, reaching the shampoo that is just out of reach for them, calling for me when it's time for a final rinse, etc.

OP didn't say "helping them with a bath," she specifically said "bathing" them. To me, that means the older sibling is the one washing the younger sibling.

[maize]

I also do not think that children (or adults) need to bathe daily. If you are not muddy and do not stink, all is well :)

[Tanaqui]

If the children want to bathe together and enjoy it, I would allow it. I wouldn't go out of my way to encourage it unless we were under drought conditions, though (and then you can be sure they wouldn't be washing their entire bodies every single day)!

 

I would not have one child routinely bathing the other, though, especially not when they're as close in age as yours are. A twelve year old taking over the baby's bathtime once a week so Mom and Dad can have half an hour to themselves is one thing. A seven year old routinely washing up a three year old is bordering on taking on an inappropriately adult and parental role. (Inappropriate simply because it's too much responsibility, not even because of nudity or anything like that!)

 

I would not have one child routinely in charge of another's discipline, hygiene, feeding, education, or overall well-being. That strikes me as the sort of slippery slope you don't want to be on. There are other chores your children can do that will save you the same net amount of time. Edit: Routinely responsible is the keyword. Occasional babysitting is one thing, or if the three year old got lots of chocolate all over his face and the nine year old offered to help him wash up, so long as that solution is agreeable to both of them that's also probably okay and not the sort of thing that is harmful or that your kids will grow up resenting.

 

(The nine and seven year old occasionally watching the three year old in the backyard for short bouts, provided they're still able to play in that time, does not strike me as an inappropriately parental role if they enjoy doing it. Again, I wouldn't have the five year old do this - the age difference is just too small.)

 

[zoobie]

The bathing together seems a little much for me. I have 4: 11, 9, 2, and 1. My 2 older kids want privacy in their own bathing. The 11 year old (DD) has helped me with the little ones' baths on rare occasions. Once I had a stomach bug and was trying to stay away from everyone and DH had fallen down stairs and seriously hurt his back/hip. He was there supervising and passing towels and such but couldn't do the physical work. DD11 also has asked to do "spa time" with the 2 (almost 3) year old where she fills up a bubble bath, washes her hair, and rinses it. The 2 year old scrubs the rest of herself on her own. Then they brush hair, put in sparkly clips, and sometimes paint nails. I'm usually in and out of the bathroom in the surrounding rooms putting away laundry and laughing at their dialogue. :) I wouldn't ask on a regular basis, but if the adults are sick or injured, I don't think it is expecting too much for them to help for a few minutes. I do encourage early independence on self-care. As I said, the 2 year old uses her bath puff to scrub everything other than her hair. She does try to wash that too, but we have to help a little because it's long.

 

I'd probably try to rearrange your chores so the kids put away their own laundry, help clear the table, unload dishwasher, and then shower the 3 and 5 year old together.

[lovinmyboys]

Thanks for all the responses. The 5yr old mostly washes himself-the 9yr old helps soap his rag, tells him if he got all the shampoo out, etc. The 7yr old has been washing the 3yr olds hair, but 3yr old mostly washes his own body. I am in earshot of 3yr old in bath and often within eyesight (he is super calm though..I wouldn't have left ds5 alone in water at that age even though he could swim). In the winter, I am queen of infrequent kids showers. They play outside most of the day and they are dirty in the summer. Plus, I like sunscreen and bug spray washed off. But, maybe they do wash too frequently. Lots of good suggestions.

[lovinmyboys]

Oh, also, I kinda see the difference between caring for a sibling and helping around the house. Currently, I am positive my olders would rather help bathe the younger ones than clean the kitchen, but maybe they shouldn't make that choice.

[Junie]

Sorry that you are raising your boys on your own.  My older dc (14, 12, 10) do most of the kid chores here, but I am getting ready to add dd8 to the mix when she has her birthday and becomes dd9.  If I were in your situation, I think that I would be able to put most of these chores on ds9 and ds7 if they are tall enough.  (We have a lot of shorties at my house.)

 

Some of the chores that my dc do:

 

all of the kid laundry

emptying/filling the dishwasher

setting the table

clearing the table

helping to make meals (duties vary by age)

serving breakfast (cereal or yogurt)

sweeping the dining room

picking up toys/books

dusting

wiping down the bathroom sinks

filling soap dispensers

emptying the trash cans

 

I try to keep the kids' chores to no more than 1 hour per day per child.  Obviously the older dc can do more than the younger.  We have a rotating schedule, so that the same kids are not doing the same chores every week.

 

 

I saw some advice on here the other day that I thought was brilliant:  Give the chore to the youngest person who is able to complete the job. 

[catz]

I personally wouldn't be comfortable with this.  I think it could make personal space difficult to delineate for some kids and I think personal care is a parent responsibility.  I would allow a babysitting trained trustworthy teen who was willing bath a preschooler (fully dressed in a caretaker role), but not a 7 or 9 year old .  And FTR, my kids are almost 4 years apart and did take baths together for a while.  They would just play in the tub together though.  Either they or a parent would help with washing.  I am also super paranoid about water safety, so I would not allow a 3 and 7 year old to be in water together alone without being within immediate reach.  I know a couple families that have lost children to drowning and it happens shockingly fast, even to kids that seem water safe.

 

I would assembly line them through the shower or something very quickly.  Or have the the 9 and 7 year old each get a 5 minute or less shower and bathe the 2 smaller together.  I used to enjoy sitting and knitting or reading while my 2 were in the bath. 

 

[Junie]

 I used to enjoy sitting and knitting or reading while my 2 were in the bath. 

 

This is a great idea.  Also, I used to clean the bathroom while I was supervising bath time.

[Guest]

Haven't read other replies, but I would not do this, no matter how much more convenient it would be. I find bathing young children to be very bonding and a great avenue for giving them direct attention. Also, seeing all of their bodies regularly (when they are young) is an important aspect of monitoring their health. I think it is fine to double kids up to make the bathing more efficient and do remember three-in-a-tub baths for some while as a child, but this was still with a parent cleaning us.

 

One friend of mine had a great story about how "shower night" worked at her home growing up with eleven children (mostly girls). Her dad would get in the shower in a bathing suit and the young children would come in like an assembly line. As they came out clean, her mother would comb and braid the girls' hair and they would get their PJs on. By the time a girl's hair was braided, the next one was finishing up getting washed by dad. :D i always thought this was an adorable (and clever) story of parents making a big family procedure work.

[Murphy101]

My olders do not take care of parenting things with my youngers. That's my job and I guard it jealously. Most of them have never changed a diaper, given a bottle, or bathed a sibling. I probably go overboard bc MY siblings still have a ton of resentment and anger about having to take care of me too much.

 

I am big on everyone has chores, bc we all live here and it's my opinion that regardless of family size, everyone in the home should pitch in. But I have never made a sibling a chore. To me, I think that is key. They should feel a sense of "we are siblings who have each other's backs" but never "I am responsible for needs and wellbeing for this person."

 

I don't personally care what you do in this regard. Your family and kids = your call as far as I'm concerned.

 

I do not think there is an "intimacy" issue unless there is some other dysfunction already present. But then again, I figure rinsed off every night before dinner is good enough. I don't expect them to give themselves a mother standard superior cleaning when bathing themselves, especially at any of those ages. If the 4 year old plays in the soapy water long enough, he is probably clean enough. So I don't consider that anymore intimate than playing in the pool. *shrug* Also, my kids are very slight of frame. My almost 7 year old would not be able to help my 4 year old if he slipped in the tub or on the tile getting in or out, so even if I did have them bathe together, I wouldn't feel comfortable going very far or for very long.

 

Sometimes I have had to call an older child in to make sure nothing happened to a bathing toddler or preschooler while I stepped out of the room for a few minutes. Usually to check on how dinner is progressing and then I come right back to relieve them.

 

I always bathed all my littles in one bath at the same time. Hazard of having 4-5 kids under 6 years old and only one me. They loved bath time. It was always like 30-45 minutes long bc they'd sit there playing water games together while I read a book or folded laundry or whatever while supervising to make sure no one got hurt. I kinda miss our old bathrooms thinking about that. I can't do that now bc our current tub is enclosed with a toilet so I have to basicly sit on the toilet to keep an eye on him and there's not enough room in there to do anything but sit and agree with whatever sea faring scheme he has in mind for his tub toys.

 

I'd put the three youngest in the tub together to get it over quicker and the 9 year old can shower while they bath. Then when they get out, they can pick up their rooms or whatever while you do your clean up thing. Or they can help clean up.

[EndOfOrdinary]

My major thought was that bath time was the time when I could see all of my son to be sure nothing was wrong. I was a single mom during those ages (up until about four) and even when Dh entered the scene he was a bit wierd about nakedness. So with everyone my son shuffled through with care and playing, bathtime meant I could see bruises, blisters, bumps, or issues that I very well could have missed. It was also a time to clean ears, clip nails, talk about the right way to brush teeth, etc. i do not know when the hygine stuff and discussions would have happened otherwise.

 

My 10.5 year old still could care less about being naked around our family. He cares with other people and has since he was very small. There is no touching or hugging when naked like when he was bitsy and would have been naked all day long if he could. But he will sometimes come out of the bathroom after a shower in a towel to dry off in front of the woodstove like it was no issue. He will often sleep naked and come down from his loft to use the bathroom in the morning. He is not dancing around or anything, but it does not seem awkward. So play it by ear with your kids. I am flat out positive within the year, Ds will start caring. When he does, we will shift so that there is more privacy in our tiny house. Have a contingency plan. Make sure you are paying attention to the seven year old too. He might kick in with modesty faster than the older.

 

Don't worry too much about "normal." Being a single mom when my son was young, then homeschooling now, means that we are incredibly close. Many people don't get it, few would say it was "normal," but it works for us. We have been through a ton together. I am far closer to him than just about anyone on the planet and vise versa. It doesn't make him any less of a kid or me less of the parent. It is just a different dynamic. Find what works for you and works for your kids. Then go with it!

[Tsuga]

On the one hand, I don't think it's damaging or serious to have an older child bathe a younger child.

 

On the other hand, of all the chores I'd dole out, personally that would be pretty far down the list, for reasons mentioned above (it's personal, it's a time to make sure everything gets done right, it can be frustrating).

 

But most importantly I agree with those who said that bathing every night is impractical and not necessary. In fact I think for people with sensitive skin it can be too much. In my family we bathe once per week unless swimming, until puberty begins, around 9 - 10. Unless a child is exceptionally muddy, they just don't need it until then. Especially in summer, the kids play in the pool more often or go to swim.

 

"Routinely responsible is the keyword."

 

I agree with this except with a single mom with four kids, everybody's going to have some routine responsibilities that just don't happen in a dual-parent household with one child. But I think that's a good thing. Ideally those responsibilities will be for the home and not other people, and the parent will be grateful of the children's contribution and treat them with the respect they've earned helping out around the home.

[Tanaqui]

 

 

I agree with this except with a single mom with four kids, everybody's going to have some routine responsibilities that just don't happen in a dual-parent household with one child. But I think that's a good thing. Ideally those responsibilities will be for the home and not other people, and the parent will be grateful of the children's contribution and treat them with the respect they've earned helping out around the home.

 

I want to clarify, I don't think it's bad or iffy for kids to have tasks that they are continually responsible for (so long as it doesn't take undue time from their education or playtime). If they always are the ones in charge of sweeping the floors in the evening, tidying their half of the bedroom, handling their own laundry, and, say, setting and clearing the table, that's fine. I just don't think they should be responsible for other people to that sort of extent. (I will agree that in extreme circumstances, those rules might have to go out the window. If there's a war and you all have to go on the run and Mom and Dad need to work most of the time to feed the kids, which by the way have doubled in number because you picked up a few orphans, well, then the kids will have to step up. But ideally, this should be limited.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

Yeah, having your kids do lots of cleaning is fine. The child care, however, should generally be left to the parents. I agree with those who said have your kids do chores while you do the bathing.

[Tsuga]

I want to clarify, I don't think it's bad or iffy for kids to have tasks that they are continually responsible for (so long as it doesn't take undue time from their education or playtime). If they always are the ones in charge of sweeping the floors in the evening, tidying their half of the bedroom, handling their own laundry, and, say, setting and clearing the table, that's fine. I just don't think they should be responsible for other people to that sort of extent. (I will agree that in extreme circumstances, those rules might have to go out the window. If there's a war and you all have to go on the run and Mom and Dad need to work most of the time to feed the kids, which by the way have doubled in number because you picked up a few orphans, well, then the kids will have to step up. But ideally, this should be limited.)

 

Yes, agree completely.

 

I do think that it's easier to get kids to take care of one another, than to tidy up, though, so I can see why OP made this the division of labor. If I told my 8 year old to help the 6 year old take a bath, she would. Ask her to tidy the bathroom and 30 minutes later, I'd be done with dinner and her sister would be out of the shower (we don't have a bath) and the room would not be tidy.

[SKL]

I think it's fine for kids those ages and same sex to bathe together.  Just check in on them periodically.  You might want to revisit who bathes with whom.  Could the 5yo and 3yo bathe together with just a little help?  Or the 5yo and 7yo could bathe together while the 9yo helps the 3yo but doesn't get in with him?  I certainly bathed my much younger siblings, but I didn't get in the tub with them.

 

I don't have any problem with older kids helping with younger kids under reasonable supervision.  I think it is an excellent opportunity for many kids.  It does depend on the kids' personality up to a point.

[Bluegoat]

As far as privacy goes, I think kids will tell you when they want it, and then you need to respect it.  My 10 year old will still ask to bathe with her siblings so I don't think she cares yet.

 

As far as bathing, i don't think it is more onerous than any other job kids could have.  I don't really have an issue with kids having serious jobs in the household - I actually think it is good for them to feel like their work is important to the well-being of the whole family.  I think the main thing is that the time and effort and needs of everyone should be respected.  So their efforts shouldn't be taken for granted, they need to be appreciated, they need to be something they can do without feeling overwhelmed, they need also to have time to themselves and to pursue their own goals and interests.  I tend to think those things are more important than the amount of work that kids get asked to take on, and it can be just as bad for kids to expect too little of them - it makes them seem like they are essentially baggage, always taking.   Personally as a kid I would rather have been in charge of bath time than washing dishes.

 

The only thing I would think particularly about bathing would be safety - our bathroom is quite close to the kitchen so that would not bother me but if I couldn't hear at all I would only ask an older child than that to be in charge of bathing a young one - say, 13.

 

[Guest]

We are a large family.  In our house, DH and I are the ones who bathe the younger kids.  This is what works for us and I think it's more efficient.  I know some people have the much older kids bathe the younger kids, and as long as everyone is fine with it, I guess that is okay... we just don't do that, here.  Seven and nine seem kinda young to do a good job bathing younger kids.  I, personally, would not have older kids bathe with younger kids (can't tell if that is what was described in OP).  

 

We have recently started letting DD change our toddler's diaper at times (this is a huge help late in pregnancy and with newborn in house).  I'm not sure how some people think no one besides the parents should change diapers (what about babysitters and daycare centers??  Grandparents?)  Our older boys don't want to change diapers, so they don't have to.  DD does not mind and likes helping out with her little brother.

 

Mostly, we just have our kids do basic chores.  I had some issues late in the pregnancy, so they helped out more with their little brother (toddler)... things like entertaining and making lunch (which DD loves to do - very interested in food prep, lately).  That was a huge help.  They have also helped since bringing new baby home, and I have really appreciated it.  I make sure to rotate who I ask for help so they are not burdened.  This is for a short period of time in life, though... not a regular thing.   So, I can understand having olders help with caring for youngers to a certain extent.  I just don't agree with handing over all of the care over to the older siblings, and I understand how that can cause resentment.  Kids should have chores and help when needed, but they should also be able to just be kids.

[abba12]

For me personally, I'm confused by what some people are referring to as washing and it being intimate. When I bath my kids, I basically watch them sit in the bath, and dump a jug of water on their heads at the end (nicely, of course). There is bubble bath which is also soap, so they have that and wipe themselves down with a cloth. In the shower, I don't have them use soap directly (I'm allergic to many soap products, and truly never understood why soap was needed on the skin anyway, clothes yes, hair sometimes, but what does soap on the skin actually DO, other than dry it out, that running water and a quick rub over with a cloth if needed wouldn't? With the exception of anything involving poop or vomit, those smells and bacteria linger without soap)

 

So, in my family, I'd have no issue with it because there's no 'washing' involved, even the 2 year old knows to run the cloth over her body by herself, and kids that young generally don't need their hair shampooed too regularly either. It would just be two children sharing the same water. As long as they're the same gender, no problems. 

 

I guess if one child was rubbing the other down, head to toe, with the cloth rather than the child doing it themselves (and are you guys really suggesting a 5 year old isn't capable of doing that?) it might be a different story. But, even my 3yo wipes her own bottom, so, I guess I'm just pretty lax about the whole thing. 

 

As an eldest child of 5, I showered with siblings regularly, never touched them though, and had no resentment over that 'supervisory' role until I was old enough to want to shower alone. 

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I've gotta know . . . those who say kids don't need a bath every day . . . does this include summertime??? Now, my kids are neater and can certainly skip a day here and there, and if we lived in California we'd probably do it on principle. As a child though, my siblings and I spent most our daylight hours outside. We got dirty. Sometimes we didn't bother with shoes. Add in sunscreen, sweat, playing with dogs, a pond, a dirt road, a huge garden, etc. I can't imagine my mother letting us touch our sheets before bathing. Sometimes she made us hose off before we could come in the house to shower. Even growing up in the suburbs, I got my kids out to a pool or playground most days and in the summer a daily shower just never seemed all that optional.

 

To the OP, I'm a if it ain't broke don't fix it girl, however, maybe you can streamline by washing the little ones together and letting the older ones supervise bath time playtime? I don't think it sounds molesty or anything, I just don't think boys that age are such hygiene pros that I'd put them in charge of someone else. I was one of those bitter oldest girls in one of the large family threads. I did occasionally bathe my brother who is eight years younger, but that's not one of the things I'm bitter about. It was never my sole responsibility and as chores go, it's a really easy one that can be fun.