NOOOOOO!

[Heather in VA]

I'm sure Nicole and Joe are really proud of that and think it's a "win" for their side, but I suspect all it will do is drag out the investigation even longer. It just compounds the parents' lack of cooperation, increases suspicion that they're hiding something, and prolongs the assessment process. If they think that teaching the kids to respond this way will somehow force CPS to return them sooner, they may be shocked to discover it has the opposite effect — it may even end up restricting parental access, if the parents are encouraging this. Worst of all, it could result in splitting the kids up even more, if they feel that kids are refusing to cooperate out of solidarity. They sure have been thoroughly indoctrinated.  :sad:

 

She is definitely proud of it. She goes on to say "So teach your children. Let them know their rights, even when they aren't being acknowledged'. She also has a post about being asked by CPS/the court to get the kids SSNs and birth certificates (for those who don't have them - so it appears some do). She doesn't want to. The responses are just as nusty-coo-coo as she is. Several say that a birth certificate or an SSN is an acknowledgment that the State owns you. One woman recommends not allowing her kids to be "oppressed" in that manner. UGH

[Renai]

Thanks. What is awful how much in common dysfunctional families have. Awkward sentence but I hope you KWIM.

 

I remember I stopped reading Angela's Ashes when I got to the scene when the drunk dad woke the kids in the middle of the night...and was either singing or making them sing. I threw the book away from me. And I remember thinking, "what IS IT with drunks needing company? That they'd even wake their poor kids?"

 

:grouphug:  I know exactly what you are talking about, and have wondered the same thing myself. 

[gardenmom5]

while nicole is deep into paranoid - I do believe she is on the receiving end of dv.  for someone who isn't emotionally strong to begin with, there can be a lot of "go along to get along, don't rock the boat" until eventually they start to think like how they are repeatedly being told to think.  and think it is their own idea.

 

My hope is they will be separated, and she can get the help to pull herself together.  I have no hope for joe.  I'm not holding my breath he'd stop using, and get off his posterior and actually work.

but until that happens, I hope neither one of them get the kids back.  if they have to separate the kids even further so they can learn to trust/rely-upon their foster families and get straight answers out of them, then so be it.  this is one seriously dysfunctional fringe family.

[Renai]

This may be the most insignificant thing to carp about, but for someone who defines herself as (among other things) a cloth-diapering mama, isn't the cute (but dirty) baby on the property wearing disposables?

 

And how would you manage cloth diapers on the homestead?  I'm sure that a diaper service is not an option, both financially and ideologically.  They rely on a laundromat in town to wash their clothes. 

 

There are pictures of the baby (don't know which one) in cloth diapers. He had on a snap cover. Maybe it became too hard to keep up, so they switched to disposable.

[Corraleno]

I wonder if the fact that the well/septic weren't assessed had to do with the fact that they (by some accounts) weren't on the property legally. My guess is permits would have to be pulled to work on one or both, and then they'd run into legal problems.

 

They appear to be leasing the land; the title is still in someone else's name and Nicole has said they were able to arrange for "owner financing" with a plan to pay it off in 6-10 yrs — although given their previous lack of funds I'd guess they're not up to date on payments.

 

I think they didn't do anything with the well or septic simply because (1) they don't know exactly what's needed or who to call to get it done, and (2) unless the person(s) inspecting/repairing the well & septic will barter for a couple jars of applesauce and a baby goat, they really don't have any way to pay for it.

 

I think the best thing that could happen at this point would be for the landowner to cancel the lease, which would force the family into some kind of actual housing. That would make it much easier for them to get the kids back, and would make it easier for CPS to continue to monitor them. I know that when the Stanley's got their kids back, CPS required that the dad take anger management classes and that the whole family get psychological counseling, and at the moment CPS still retains legal custody of the older 3 kids, even though they are back living with the family. I think that would be a reasonable arrangement for the Naugler kids.

[gardenmom5]

Once again, why haven't we heard from the actual land owners?

 

 

maybe they fly around in black helicopters and they're out in Nevada right now.

[idnib]

maybe they fly around in black helicopters and they're out in Nevada right now.

 

My guess is they got a lawyer who told them to lay low. Very very low.

There are pictures of the baby (don't know which one) in cloth diapers. He had on a snap cover. Maybe it became too hard to keep up, so they switched to disposable.

 

This is the picture I'm thinking of: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/04/287EB9F100000578-0-This_kind_of_free_range_life_has_become_a_talking_point_in_Ameri-a-42_1431403042348.jpg

[Seasider]

maybe they fly around in black helicopters and they're out in Nevada right now.

That would explain a lot.

[Χά�ων]

She is definitely proud of it. She goes on to say "So teach your children. Let them know their rights, even when they aren't being acknowledged'. She also has a post about being asked by CPS/the court to get the kids SSNs and birth certificates (for those who don't have them - so it appears some do). She doesn't want to. The responses are just as nusty-coo-coo as she is. Several say that a birth certificate or an SSN is an acknowledgment that the State owns you. One woman recommends not allowing her kids to be "oppressed" in that manner. UGH

Can you post a link? I cannot find one. Thanks!

[Acorn]

This is the picture I'm thinking of: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/04/287EB9F100000578-0-This_kind_of_free_range_life_has_become_a_talking_point_in_Ameri-a-42_1431403042348.jpg

Before the "homestead" idea, they rented a nice looking older farmhouse. On her blogs from that time period, she identifies as a cloth diapering, natural mama. I'd link her tutorial on diapering but I'm not sure about protocol of linking blogs.

[Spryte]

This is the picture I'm thinking of: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/04/287EB9F100000578-0-This_kind_of_free_range_life_has_become_a_talking_point_in_Ameri-a-42_1431403042348.jpg

Is that a saw behind the baby? On the ground?

[Heather in VA]

Can you post a link? I cannot find one. Thanks!

 

i don't know how to like to a  particular FB post but this is her personal page. The "I don't consent' post is dated May 7th and starts "I'm ok but I don't know how my children are'. The 'SSN/Birth Certificate" post is dated May 8th and starts 'Janice Schmittou'. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/HomesteadMomma?fref=ts

[Mergath]

Is that a saw behind the baby? On the ground?

 

And I'm pretty sure in the top left corner of the picture that's a whole lotta poop.

[Corraleno]

 

 

She is definitely proud of it. She goes on to say "So teach your children. Let them know their rights, even when they aren't being acknowledged'. She also has a post about being asked by CPS/the court to get the kids SSNs and birth certificates (for those who don't have them - so it appears some do). She doesn't want to. The responses are just as nusty-coo-coo as she is. Several say that a birth certificate or an SSN is an acknowledgment that the State owns you. One woman recommends not allowing her kids to be "oppressed" in that manner. UGH

 

The last 5 babies were unassisted home births, while the older ones were midwife-assisted, so I assume the olders have BCs and the younger 5 don't. I suspect that's the real reason she is adamant about not having a midwife present — so there's no record of the birth. 

 

To give people an idea of just how far out the cray cray is on this topic, here's a page that was linked by one of Nicole's supporters when she asked for info to back up her refusal to provide CPS with BCs for all the kids:

 

 

 

DID YOU KNOW YOU'RE A CRIMINAL .......

 

 

 

*Please note: these are FACTS, not theories. Attention " Freemen on the Land/Sovereignty gurus, Sovereign " citizens, patriots, humanity in general etc.

 

 

1. ...If you use or claim to use/own the NAME you think is yours but isn't because it was GIVEN to the CROWN CORPORATION/church/state by your parents at birth?

 

 

2. ...If you claim OWNERSHIP of anything REGISTERED because ALL things/people REGISTERED are PROPERTY OF THE CROWN?

 

3. You are automatically deemed a thief if you claim ANYTHING/EVERYTHING that has the NAME you claim fraudulently as yours on a REGISTRATION/OWNERSHIP and why COURTS and POLICE can and will "steal" what you think are your belongings but aren't and actually are only reclaiming what was willfully GIVEN to the CROWN, their master. A BIRTH CERTIFICATE CANNOT be used for IDENTIFICATION and ANYONE can ORDER a COPY of YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE with minimal information.

 

4. You are a morally and sexually depraved criminal if you carry a LICENSE of any kind. License comes from the word "Licentious" and it has proof of your FALSE IMPERSONATION NAME you claim in fraud on it.

 

5. The courts have YOU automatically in DISHONOUR if you claim the NAME you think is you and you become SURETY for the BOND created in that NAME called a BIRTH CERTIFICATE and you do so WILFULLY in ignorance. JOINDER/LIABILITY on YOU can only be created when YOU claim THEIR legal NAME that THEY, the CROWN owns and NO COURT can touch you if you don't. The Name is the pin on the hand grenade that THEY are terrified of, so pull it.

 

6. Only BAR members (Lawyers/judges) have RIGHT of COPYRIGHT use to maintain their "honour" in the courtroom and why those claiming to be a NAME REPRESENTING "themselves" CANNOT be heard because YOU are deemed DEAD; Dead men tell no tales.

 

7. All bank accounts, mortgages, loans, businesses, children, MARRIAGES/DIVORCES etc. REGISTERED/CREATED in the NAME you think is you are actually PROPERTY of the CROWN and any attempt to claim them is a wilful and ignorant ACT of FRAUD and all things contained within these CONTRACTS are CHURCH/STATE/CROWN PROPERTY.

 

8. All IDENTIFICATION created from the BIRTH CERTIFICATE NAME you think is yours is FALSE IMPERSONATION and FALSE IDENTITY using the PROPERTY of the CROWN without permission and is a CAPITAL OFFENSE. Anyone claiming to be a NON-BAR member TITLE such as a Police Officer is actually FALSE IMPERSONATION two-fold because they don't have RIGHT OF COPYRIGHT USE like everyone else.

 

9. This FRAUD from the CROWN CORPORATION is EASILY dispelled and REVERSED by exposing the CROWN CORPORATION's (owners thereof) INTENT to DECEIVE/AID AND ABET humanity into FRAUD via ignorance of these CONTRACT facts.

 

 

So basically, as long as your birth isn't registered and you have no legal name, the government can't touch you! They can't own you if you don't exist and they can't take your property or your kids if they don't exist either! It's like magic, but so logical! 

[gardenmom5]

You have now entered the twilight zone.

[Spryte]

And I'm pretty sure in the top left corner of the picture that's a whole lotta poop.

What would possess anyone to publicly post such a pic?!

[Jean in Newcastle]

What would possess anyone to publicly post such a pic?!

Someone who just doesn't see the dangers - physical or health - to her children.  

[Heather in VA]

What would possess anyone to publicly post such a pic?!

 

This is what I ask about so many of her posts and pictures. 

[Heather in VA]

Someone who just doesn't see the dangers - physical or health - to her children.  

 

Or someone whose focus is so narrowly centered on an agenda that they can't see anything else

[brehon]

Wha?????? Uh...I...erm....

 

I have NO words to DESCRIBE that DIATRIBE. (Just to keep in the random WORDS capitalized STYLE.)

 

 

 

Really, I think all one can say is that in order to understand that, they really need to share the drugs...

[Audrey]

 

To give people an idea of just how far out the cray cray is on this topic, here's a page that was linked by one of Nicole's supporters when she asked for info to back up her refusal to provide CPS with BCs for all the kids:

 

 

 

Quote

DID YOU KNOW YOU'RE A CRIMINAL .......

 

 

 

*Please note: these are FACTS, not theories. Attention " Freemen on the Land/Sovereignty gurus, Sovereign " citizens, patriots, humanity in general etc.

 

 

1. ...If you use or claim to use/own the NAME you think is yours but isn't because it was GIVEN to the CROWN CORPORATION/church/state by your parents at birth?

 

 

2. ...If you claim OWNERSHIP of anything REGISTERED because ALL things/people REGISTERED are PROPERTY OF THE CROWN?

 

3. You are automatically deemed a thief if you claim ANYTHING/EVERYTHING that has the NAME you claim fraudulently as yours on a REGISTRATION/OWNERSHIP and why COURTS and POLICE can and will "steal" what you think are your belongings but aren't and actually are only reclaiming what was willfully GIVEN to the CROWN, their master. A BIRTH CERTIFICATE CANNOT be used for IDENTIFICATION and ANYONE can ORDER a COPY of YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE with minimal information.

 

4. You are a morally and sexually depraved criminal if you carry a LICENSE of any kind. License comes from the word "Licentious" and it has proof of your FALSE IMPERSONATION NAME you claim in fraud on it.

 

5. The courts have YOU automatically in DISHONOUR if you claim the NAME you think is you and you become SURETY for the BOND created in that NAME called a BIRTH CERTIFICATE and you do so WILFULLY in ignorance. JOINDER/LIABILITY on YOU can only be created when YOU claim THEIR legal NAME that THEY, the CROWN owns and NO COURT can touch you if you don't. The Name is the pin on the hand grenade that THEY are terrified of, so pull it.

 

6. Only BAR members (Lawyers/judges) have RIGHT of COPYRIGHT use to maintain their "honour" in the courtroom and why those claiming to be a NAME REPRESENTING "themselves" CANNOT be heard because YOU are deemed DEAD; Dead men tell no tales.

 

7. All bank accounts, mortgages, loans, businesses, children, MARRIAGES/DIVORCES etc. REGISTERED/CREATED in the NAME you think is you are actually PROPERTY of the CROWN and any attempt to claim them is a wilful and ignorant ACT of FRAUD and all things contained within these CONTRACTS are CHURCH/STATE/CROWN PROPERTY.

 

8. All IDENTIFICATION created from the BIRTH CERTIFICATE NAME you think is yours is FALSE IMPERSONATION and FALSE IDENTITY using the PROPERTY of the CROWN without permission and is a CAPITAL OFFENSE. Anyone claiming to be a NON-BAR member TITLE such as a Police Officer is actually FALSE IMPERSONATION two-fold because they don't have RIGHT OF COPYRIGHT USE like everyone else.

 

9. This FRAUD from the CROWN CORPORATION is EASILY dispelled and REVERSED by exposing the CROWN CORPORATION's (owners thereof) INTENT to DECEIVE/AID AND ABET humanity into FRAUD via ignorance of these CONTRACT facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:huh:  :bored:  :blink:  :wacko:

 

Wow.  Just... I am... speechless.  I have never seen or heard of that before.  The level of batshit insane is... off the charts.  Off. The. Charts.

[Renthead Mommy]

Is that a saw behind the baby? On the ground?

 

 

Yes it is. 

 

So aside from the safety issue, it also proves that Joe really is no 'craftsman'.  No one with any real knowledge of tools would leave them or allow their children to leave them lying around like that.  Both from a safety issue and a taking care of them issue. 

 

But then we already knew that.....

[Renai]

Yes it is. 

 

So aside from the safety issue, it also proves that Joe really is no 'craftsman'.  No one with any real knowledge of tools would leave them or allow their children to leave them lying around like that.  Both from a safety issue and a taking care of them issue. 

 

But then we already knew that.....

Interestingly, when I first saw the photo, I was focused on the baby. I noticed the saw when someone mentioned it up thread. I called dd15 and that was the first thing she saw. I need to get my eyes checked. Or something.

[Heather in VA]

Ah, I suspected all along they were at least on the fringe of the sovereign citizen movement. After reading an old post of Nicole's on FB where she mentions them getting pulled over for not having the van registered and how they don't need to due to having a "right to travel" it is confirmed.

 

She sounds like she is as deep in the crazy as he is.

This insanity has a name???

[idnib]

Is that a saw behind the baby? On the ground?

 

Of course. Who else is going to saw up the poop? That baby has to earn its keep.

[swellmomma]

Have to play catchup on this thread, but I was looking through her fb page and came across such a weird post.  May 12th she posted asking what facial expressions someone does when they are lying.  It made me think she was wanting to purposely avoid doing those things ya know, she claimed it was so she could "prove" alex had been lying, but really, who asks a question like that on fb while going through this, all it does is make her look like she is trying to hide something (which she clearly is, but not doing a very good job of it when she hasn't learned to stop posting things and just lay low while doing what needs to be done to make the home habitable)

[Renai]

Have to play catchup on this thread, but I was looking through her fb page and came across such a weird post.  May 12th she posted asking why facial expressions someone does when they are lying.  It made me think she was wanting to purposely avoid doing those things ya know, she claimed it was so she could "prove" alex had been lying, but really, who asks a question like that on fb while going through this, all it does is make her look like she is trying to hide something (which she clearly is, but not doing a very good job of it when she hasn't learned to stop posting things and just lay low while doing what needs to be done to make the home habitable)

 

I first saw something about that on the Blessed page, but it was one of the supporters that posted it about Alex, and went into detail about looking up or down, what does it mean, etc.I'm not sure who posted it first though.

[Elfknitter.#]

Maybe something along these lines regarding lying?

 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/myth-busted-looking-left-or-right-doesnt-indicate-if-youre-lying-1922058/

[Ausmumof3]

The kid in the nappy pic has his hand in a black tool bag and has a spanner or something is next to his foot. I'd say he's just found and started emptying the tool bag.

 

I wish someone has given my dh the memo that no true craftsmen leaves his tools out...

[FaithManor]

:huh:  :bored:  :blink:  :wacko:

 

Wow.  Just... I am... speechless.  I have never seen or heard of that before.  The level of batshit insane is... off the charts.  Off. The. Charts.

That list! I, just, I mean, so dang crazy I can't create a coherent sentence.

 

In my mind's eye, their brains have twisted into pretzel shapes.

 

Out of curiosity, does the prion disease Mad Cow cause this kind of thing? I am grasping at straws to imagine how a person arrives at such insanity without half the brain being eaten away or something.

[Mimm]

What in the world is she talking about? What the hell is the Crown? Is that like the Illuminati? I literally can't even figure out what she's talking about. I need my coffee...

[Heather in VA]

What in the world is she talking about? What the hell is the Crown? Is that like the Illuminati? I literally can't even figure out what she's talking about. I need my coffee...

Coffee isn't going to help

[FaithManor]

Coffee isn't going to help

I can verify the veracity of this statement. I've downed two large mugs of the brew and re-read the list. Nope...didn't make it any better.

[SproutMamaK]

LOTS of caffeiNE just MAKES the capITal letters loOK like THEy're swiMMINg.

[swellmomma]

I read that list and thought she was insane but I understood the crown lol  It is weird for an American to use that word though.  A Brit or someone from a common wealth country sure, but that is because we have crown lands etc here.  The Crown generally refers to the Queen of England.  Like we have Court of Queen's bench, Crown prosecutors, Crown lands etc Even in a common wealth though her list is bat sh*t crazy lol  I bet if someone put out a search for her list, it would be found online somewhere in the middle of a satire written by a British citizen and she merely took it as fact, because it must be true, she read it on the internets

[Halcyon]

"Exclusive" Interview with the Nauglers: 

 

http://www.offthegridnews.com/radio/exclusive-nauglers-respond-to-critics-in-1st-interview/

[Xuzi]

I don't think that rant was from her personally, but from one of her supporters, right?

[Heatherwith4]

Wow. Congratulations to her for use of the word crown in a way that makes no sense whatsoever. :/

[Heather in VA]

I don't think that rant was from her personally, but from one of her supporters, right?

This is true. It was in response to her request for ammunition against the request to get her kids birth certificates and SSNs.

[SproutMamaK]

"Exclusive" Interview with the Nauglers: 

 

http://www.offthegridnews.com/radio/exclusive-nauglers-respond-to-critics-in-1st-interview/

 

I know all of us are busy and squeezing in half an hour to listen to the whole thing probably isn't going to happen.... but if someone IS able to set aside the time (and make it through the interview without punching their computer), I'd love to hear a synopsis. Not that we can trust anything they say anyway, but would be interesting to hear what spin they're trying to put on this.

 

[KungFuPanda]

Same here! The other thread about year end awards comes to mind. Best Dramatic Performance by a Fourth Grader Avoiding Cursive and the like.

There needs to be a chapter on Pencil Dropping Syndrome and The Over-Worked (according to the student) Child.

[SproutMamaK]

There needs to be a chapter on Pencil Dropping Syndrome and The Over-Worked (according to the student) Child.

 

And the "Insta-Ninja". One second he's sitting quietly on his chair, the next he's disappeared without a trace. Where did he go? No one knows.

[Ottakee]

Wow, this brings back some ugly memories of my childhood. My dad used drive us around and coach us in what to say, and we wouldn't stop until we got the script right. :-(

Sorry to hear that unsinkable.

[Hkpiano]

I know all of us are busy and squeezing in half an hour to listen to the whole thing probably isn't going to happen.... but if someone IS able to set aside the time (and make it through the interview without punching their computer), I'd love to hear a synopsis. Not that we can trust anything they say anyway, but would be interesting to hear what spin they're trying to put on this.

 

I've only had time to listen to the first five minutes but so far it's just Joe ranting rather incoherently about what's wrong with society.

[NorthwestMom]

I'm sitting in my kitchen wondering what's happening with the work party right now. I hope they post some "After" pics later. - and i want to know how many people came to help!

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The last 5 babies were unassisted home births, while the older ones were midwife-assisted, so I assume the olders have BCs and the younger 5 don't. I suspect that's the real reason she is adamant about not having a midwife present — so there's no record of the birth. 

 

To give people an idea of just how far out the cray cray is on this topic, here's a page that was linked by one of Nicole's supporters when she asked for info to back up her refusal to provide CPS with BCs for all the kids:

 

 

 

 

 

So basically, as long as your birth isn't registered and you have no legal name, the government can't touch you! They can't own you if you don't exist and they can't take your property or your kids if they don't exist either! It's like magic, but so logical! 

 

Yup.  All of that comes from the nuttiness of the sovereign citizen movement.

[FaithManor]

Okay, so I tried again. GF cheesecake with chocolate shavings on top along with a third mug of coffee also does not improve the Crown List.

 

I just thought y'all might want to know my scientific findings so you will waste perfectly good beverages and desserts. ;)

[Hkpiano]

Now Nicole is talking about what they have on the property in terms of livestock: goats, chickens, and dogs. They plan to raise rabbits for meat and will be starting that endeavor this summer as well as planting an orchard this summer. Eventually they want to have an aviary and additional cabins where guests can stay.

[brehon]

What in the world is she talking about? What the hell is the Crown? Is that like the Illuminati? I literally can't even figure out what she's talking about. I need my coffee...

 

I think you'll need something a heck of a lot stronger than coffee, if ya catch my drift.

 

 

 

I assumed Crown Corporation was this group's code for government (an amalgam of government and business). I did note the use of the British 'u' in words such as DISHONOUR.