NOOOOOO!

[Heather in VA]

I know this is really not important but that picture on her pet company FB page of the door with the name stenciled... is it just me or does it seem backward. That is clearly looking from inside out so wouldn't the name be on the outside of the door?

[LucyStoner]

I'm curious what the requirements for reunification would be. I've had friends who did foster care, so I kind of know what those bio parents had to do to get their kids back but this case is so strange with the "homestead" issue. I mean I think they'd require a separate bed for each child, and an actual house of some sort.

 

Yup.  I can't imagine they will get the kids back soon unless they move to a reasonable rental where they can each have their own bed and there's water and heat.   I don't think that's a bad thing either.  They are going to have to decide what matters more to them- their kids or their ideology.  

[gardenmom5]

I'm just going to place this here:

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-NASTY-Little-Homestead/790726694356144

 

Some of the screen shots are ... Disturbing.

 

 

this is some else, who has posted screen shots of Nicole's rantings/postings.  (so she can't take them down. one comment there indicated Nicole has taken down her fb page.  or at least one of them.)

 

all I can say is:

 

the woman is completely over the top delusional.  major persecution complex.

 

:huh:  :ohmy:  :svengo:  :svengo:  :svengo:

 

while imprisoning her might be out of line - I do think a long stint in a mental hospital could be good for her.  and not because of her anti-gov't. rantings.  she just seems completely disconnected from reality.  she's already proven she's a danger to her children.  it's a miracle none have been seriously injured, or died.

 

 

eta: oh, and the back taxes thing - it was to the tune of $20K

[idnib]

I'm just going to place this here:

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-NASTY-Little-Homestead/790726694356144

 

Some of the screen shots are ... Disturbing.

 

This seems...extreme. Someone has a lot of time on their hands, I guess.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I know this is really not important but that picture on her pet company FB page of the door with the name stenciled... is it just me or does it seem backward. That is clearly looking from inside out so wouldn't the name be on the outside of the door?

 

I think it's taken from the outside and the doors are reflecting the parking lot. 

[Word Nerd]

I know this is really not important but that picture on her pet company FB page of the door with the name stenciled... is it just me or does it seem backward. That is clearly looking from inside out so wouldn't the name be on the outside of the door?

It's taken from outside. Look at the handle.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This seems...extreme. Someone has a lot of time on their hands, I guess.

 

That's what I thought. I was really sorry I looked.

 

I mean, I know what I think of this family, and the ONLY way I'm going to change my opinion is if they get help and properly tend those poor children, but I think it takes a psychopath to start and maintain a FB page like that.

 

*I am not a mental health professional. I can't really tell whether strangers on the internet are psychotic.

[ktgrok]

I just keep thinking about that poor kid's hand. A friend's son had similar injuries, and it was So painful. But more to the point, she had to stretch the fingers a certain way each day or the skin, when it scarred, could keep him from full us of his hand later. 

[Orthodox6]

I just keep thinking about that poor kid's hand. A friend's son had similar injuries, and it was So painful. But more to the point, she had to stretch the fingers a certain way each day or the skin, when it scarred, could keep him from full us of his hand later.

Shades of "Johnny Tremaine".

[Renai]

I'm just going to place this here:

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-NASTY-Little-Homestead/790726694356144

 

Some of the screen shots are ... Disturbing.

 

Yeah. 20K in back taxes for her business, one of the girls running away (before all this happened, not now), etc. Interesting.

 

Ok, an hour later - they save money by eating chips and dip for dinner and oatmeal for breakfast (as an example of eating inexpensively), doesn't mention lunch. There's too much here to list. 

[Halcyon]

The FB page for the grooming company.

 

https://m.facebook.com/BlessedLittleGroomingCompany

 

 

WTF? She is planning on opening her business on Tuesday, the day after she loses custody of her kids for at least another month, and gosh darn it, if that pet grooming salon doesn't look nice enough to LIVE in!  Clearly she CAN get her sh*t together when she wants to, but it seems not if she is "ordered to" by the evil overlords (aka the government).

 

If I lost my kids for a month, I would be losing my mind, not planning on opening a cute dog grooming salon the very next day. For some reason, this reminds me of the woman who stands accused of killing her husband in a kayaking "accident" recently. She insisted it was an "accident" but the very next day she was posting things on facebook about feeling free, sunsets, etc. It didn't seem like she was particularly upset about the loss of her husband, and that drew people's suspicions. 

 

I am likewise suspicious of Nicole Naugler. 

[imagine.more]

 

 

*I am not a mental health professional. I can't really tell whether strangers on the internet are psychotic.

 

This made me giggle   :001_smile:  

 

And yes I kinda agree about the time spent maintaining a Facebook page like that, though I can kinda see why someone would want to what with posts and comments being deleted left and right on the Naugler's actual Facebook pages. 

[Seasider]

According to this site, the reason they went off-radar is because Joe owes a whole lotta back child support. And she owes the IRS back taxes. So they are essentially running away from their responsibilities. Surprise!

So he has more kids from other relationships? In addition to the ten and one on the way?

[gardenmom5]

Yeah. 20K in back taxes for her business, one of the girls running away (before all this happened, not now), etc. Interesting.

 

Ok, an hour later - they save money by eating chips and dip for dinner and oatmeal for breakfast (as an example of eating inexpensively), doesn't mention lunch. There's too much here to list. 

 

amy dacyzyn of the frugal gazette posted what they ate.  they ate cheaply - but a lot, and it was nutritious.

 

WTF? She is planning on opening her business on Tuesday, the day after she loses custody of her kids for at least another month, and gosh darn it, if that pet grooming salon doesn't look nice enough to LIVE in!  Clearly she CAN get her sh*t together when she wants to, but it seems not if she is "ordered to" by the evil overlords (aka the government).

 

If I lost my kids for a month, I would be losing my mind, not planning on opening a cute dog grooming salon the very next day. For some reason, this reminds me of the woman who stands accused of killing her husband in a kayaking "accident" recently. She insisted it was an "accident" but the very next day she was posting things on facebook about feeling free, sunsets, etc. It didn't seem like she was particularly upset about the loss of her husband, and that drew people's suspicions. 

 

I am likewise suspicious of Nicole Naugler. 

 

I think they were engaged.  made me think of the teacher from years ago who coerced her student lover into murdering her husband and make it look like a break-in.  when she was interviewed, she was completely put together.  hair, make-up, accessories, etc. perfect.  then the student was arrested, and she was an absolute mess. 

 

So he has more kids from other relationships? In addition to the ten and one on the way?

 

his oldest son is from a prior marriage/relationship/not-sure.  he's 19, and testified at the first hearing about being abused emotionally, psychologically, and s3xually by joe before joe's parental rights were *terminated* when he was four. I think he lived with joe and Nicole for a short period before they started having their own kids.

[Heather in VA]

"Off - radar"... that's really sums up what they want. Off the grid is not what is going on. Off the radar of their responsibilities.

[Spryte]

"Off - radar"... that's really sums up what they wants. Off the grid is not what is going on. Off the radar of their responsibilities.

Off-radar, off-rocker.

 

This is such a sad story, my heart breaks for those kids.

 

Guilty of a morbid fascination with this thread.

[Heather in VA]

Guilty here too

 

Edited to add.... I know we are praying for the kids and for the parents to get a clue but let's not forget to pray for the foster families. I can't imagine how hard it must be to take in kids who need so much.

[idnib]

Trying to be generous to the mom here. Do you think opening the salon could be one of the things her lawyer told her to do to increase their income and show some level of responsibility?

[Seasider]

amy dacyzyn of the frugal gazette posted what they ate. they ate cheaply - but a lot, and it was nutritious.

 

 

I think they were engaged. made me think of the teacher from years ago who coerced her student lover into murdering her husband and make it look like a break-in. when she was interviewed, she was completely put together. hair, make-up, accessories, etc. perfect. then the student was arrested, and she was an absolute mess.

 

 

his oldest son is from a prior marriage/relationship/not-sure. he's 19, and testified at the first hearing about being abused emotionally, psychologically, and s3xually by joe before joe's parental rights were *terminated* when he was four. I think he lived with joe and Nicole for a short period before they started having their own kids.

Ok, I knew about the oldest son testifying against him but didn't realize it was another mother and that nonpayment of child support was an issue.

[Renai]

amy dacyzyn of the frugal gazette posted what they ate.  they ate cheaply - but a lot, and it was nutritious.

 

 

 

I've had my share of beans and rice. A lot. There are many ways to fix beans. And rice. We've eaten cheaply, and well, out of necessity (less than $20K a year can do that) for a long time. I don't think I've given my family chips and dip for dinner to be frugal. Now, it does say black bean salsa, but I've never had it so don't know how filling or nutritious that really is. If it was store-bought, it was expensive, and there are a lot more inexpensive ways to eat.

[Renai]

Trying to be generous to the mom here. Do you think opening the salon could be one of the things her lawyer told her to do to increase their income and show some level of responsibility?

 

I'm responding to this post because I'm too lazy to scroll up. But about the salon, it looks like they posted about the opening before today's hearing, so it was already planned, que no? And she has said that the salon is their primary income, so I can see why they would open. It would show an attempt at a stable income.

[inmyopinion]

I am way to addicted to this thread!  I think I need to get a hobby.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am way to addicted to this thread!  I think I need to get a hobby.  

This is your hobby.

[Xuzi]

One of the local stations (WAVE, I think) is doing a report on the family tonight at 11, and they say they have new pictures,too. Hopefully it's posted online!

[KungFuPanda]

Wait . . . so does this guy have more than ten kids? Was the older son who testified one of the kids in foster care? I thought I read something about back child support?

 

Also, will these kids get SSNs while in foster care?

[gardenmom5]

I am way to addicted to this thread!  I think I need to get a hobby.  

 

 

this IS the hobby.  I know I feel like I'm paying too much attention to this - but if feels like the voyeurism of watching a train wreck in progress.  you just can't turn away.

 

we all need to get a life . . . . . .

[gardenmom5]

Wait . . . so does this guy have more than ten kids? Was the older son who testified one of the kids in foster care? I thought I read something about back child support?

 

Also, will these kids get SSNs while in foster care?

 

 

joe's parental rights were terminated when he was four.  I believe he was adopted?  but back child support would have been for him.

 

he testified against joe and Nicole at the first hearing.

[Xuzi]

The son who testified against the father is from a previous relationship, and not one of the 10 in foster care. He was removed from his parents as a toddler, and the father had his parental rights *terminated* when the boy was four, for what he (the son) says was physical and sexual abuse. It sounds like he was raised by an aunt and uncle, not his bio-parents.

[Corraleno]

his oldest son is from a prior marriage/relationship/not-sure.  he's 19, and testified at the first hearing about being abused emotionally, psychologically, and s3xually by joe before joe's parental rights were *terminated* when he was four. I think he lived with joe and Nicole for a short period before they started having their own kids.

 

According to a blog post of Nicole's in 2013, Alex was the product of a brief hook up while Joe was separated from her for a few months. Alex was living with them when her two oldest were born. They're now claiming that they haven't seen him since he was 4, but according to the timeline she described in 2013, he was actually 5.5 — born November 1995, left in August 2001. There's a big difference between what a 4 yr old can accurately remember and describe and what a 5.5 yr old can — I suspect they would have a harder time convincing their supporters that Alex is lying and that these are just stories planted in his head by the people who "stole" him if they admitted he left a few months before he turned 6, not when he was 4.

 

Also, it was Joe's own family who sued for custody and testified against him. Joe's uncle filed for an emergency custody hearing, and according to Nicole, "Joe's mother, brother, uncle, grandmother, and cousin all got on the stand and told horrible stories of abuse and all the ways Alex was mistreated." The uncle was given custody. According to Nicole, it was all lies, and the only reason Joe didn't get Alex back was because he couldn't afford to fly to NH to appear at the hearing.

 

She also admits that they were investigated by CPS when they lived in TX due to an anonymous tip about Alex being abused — which was also a lie, of course. 

 

And the woman claiming Joe threatened her with a gun is lying, and the people claiming to know them IRL who are posting negative things are all lying. It's amazing how many people are "out to get" this innocent family for no reason... 

[Halcyon]

For those of you who are interested, here's her blog from before she started homesteading: http://homespunharvestfarm.blogspot.com/

[Mergath]

The eldest son who testified against them in court is estranged from his father and was raised by his... mother??? The young man is Joe's son from a previous relationship. (Nicole is not his mother.) His parental rights were terminated when the boy was 4yo due to abuse. I assume the back child support is for this young man, if those allegations are true.

 

At least, that's what I've cobbled together. The whole things such a mess.

 

If parental rights are terminated though, does the parent still have to pay child support? I have no idea how that would work. Or would the child support be for the time up until the rights were terminated?

[Katy]

According to THIS, the child support obligation was probably prior to TPR.

[Jean in Newcastle]

http://www.wave3.com/story/29097461/off-the-grid-couple-not-granted-custody-of-10-children

 

Now Nicole Naugler herself says that the children are in 4 different foster homes.  

 

I wish we knew what went on in that court room!  (I mean from someone's perspective other than the Nauglers.)

[Heather in VA]

I'm responding to this post because I'm too lazy to scroll up. But about the salon, it looks like they posted about the opening before today's hearing, so it was already planned, que no? And she has said that the salon is their primary income, so I can see why they would open. It would show an attempt at a stable income.

 

This makes sense but I don't know how I feel about it. Clearly money is extremely tight. They need an income but they also need money to make or find a habitable place for their kids. Dog grooming will bring in money but I wonder if they need the store and all the money it must take to set up and maintain it right now when that money could give them a place to live. Lots of dog groomers come to the client which eliminates that overhead. 

 

It's possible or even likely that CPS and/or their attorney is encouraging them to get the business going. I'm not putting this particular issue on the parents. I'm just sad thinking of all that money to put together that very nice, clean place when their kids don't even rate 4 walls.

 

I also wonder what happens when she has the baby in a few months. It takes time to establish a business and she will have to close the shop for at least some time since I doubt she's hiring employees. 

[Renai]

One of the local stations (WAVE, I think) is doing a report on the family tonight at 11, and they say they have new pictures,too. Hopefully it's posted online!

Make sure you report back...I'll be watching...

[Renthead Mommy]

Do we have any idea of when/why/ or how old the daughter that ran away was?  I've seen it mentioned that it happened, but no info about it. 

 

Ran away beause she didn't want to eat vegetables one night? (My then second grader decided he had had enough veggies for a lifetime so this was his plan.)   That is one thing. 

 

Ran away because of the family, or the situation that is another. 

 

How long was she gone? Was she hiding in the woods?

[Word Nerd]

Something else to consider is that they recently (claim to have) received funds for the grooming business, and there may be restrictions on how that money may be used. Completing the business project is much more doable right now than completing everything they will need to do to make the present "house" and surrounding area habitable by anyone's standards but their own.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Make sure you report back...I'll be watching...

I linked that report on post 397

[Corraleno]

The $20K "business loan" for the grooming business is a really weird set up — the investment company, Capistan, that is loaning the money only has one investment project — Nicole's grooming business. The $20K came from seven "investors," and it's supposed to be repaid in bit-coin. The guy who runs Capistan is Pace Ellsworth, who lives in AZ and says he's never even met the Nauglers, although he is going around speaking on their behalf and referring to himself as their media spokesman.  He is involved in a political group that was sued for defamation by an AZ politician (Ellsworth's group lost and was forced to apologize), and he uses the name "Anarchy" online.  The whole thing is just bizarre.  :confused1:

 

 

[Heather in VA]

I read that stuff about the bit-coin and the Capistan stuff. I was really confused. That said, if the money is on the up and up and the loan was for the business, Word Nerd has a point that they might not be able to use it for housing even if they wanted to (which is a whole other question)

[Guest]

I read that stuff about the bit-coin and the Capistan stuff. I was really confused. That said, if the money is on the up and up and the loan was for the business, Word Nerd has a point that they might not be able to use it for housing even if they wanted to (which is a whole other question)

Again, put yourself in her shoes. Your children have been taken and you need to do xyz to get them back. Xyz costs money. There is money but it must be used for a grooming business. Sorry, no, sue me later, I'm getting my kids back ASAP, no matter what! How does a mother sleep at night when she doesn't know where her children are?? How could anything else be a priority?!?

[Renai]

I can't believe they posted a "We Shall Overcome" video in their honor. I really need to get off that page and just do my homework. After I read Jean's report in post #397 that is.

[gardenmom5]

http://www.wave3.com/story/29097461/off-the-grid-couple-not-granted-custody-of-10-children

 

Now Nicole Naugler herself says that the children are in 4 different foster homes.  

 

I wish we knew what went on in that court room!  (I mean from someone's perspective other than the Nauglers.)

 

 

here's a claim from the article:

On Nicole Naugler's Facebook page, her son Jacob posted a poem Saturday

 

 

riiiiggghhhttt.  her son had access to a computer to go onto his mother's fb page at his foster family's house while still in an evaluation of needs stage.  I call BS.

[mamakelly]

 

 

I also wonder what happens when she has the baby in a few months. It takes time to establish a business and she will have to close the shop for at least some time since I doubt she's hiring employees. 

 

I was thinking about that too. If she's the one who works, what did she do with her kids all day long? Did she leave them at "home" to run the place? Is that why they say they are "installers" (in quotes because they are really no schoolers in my book). 

[Renai]

here's a claim from the article:

On Nicole Naugler's Facebook page, her son Jacob posted a poem Saturday

 

 

riiiiggghhhttt.  her son had access to a computer to go onto his mother's fb page at his foster family's house while still in an evaluation of needs stage.  I call BS.

Nicole shut down her personal page. I saw the poem on Blessed Little Homeschool page. I was also wondering when he'd have the time to post it. And also, he must be one extremely level-headed kid to be uprooted, separated, and living with strangers, and still be in a mental state to post a poem on fb that he wrote earlier that week.

[Renai]

The $20K "business loan" for the grooming business is a really weird set up — the investment company, Capistan, that is loaning the money only has one investment project — Nicole's grooming business. The $20K came from 21 "investors," and it's supposed to be repaid in bit-coin. The guy who runs Capistan is Pace Ellsworth, who lives in AZ and says he's never even met the Nauglers, although he is going around speaking on their behalf and referring to himself as their media spokesman.  He is involved in a political group that was sued for defamation by an AZ politician (Ellsworth's group lost and was forced to apologize), and he uses the name "Anarchy" online.  The whole thing is just bizarre.  :confused1:

 

This Pace person is said to have replaced Joe's name on the original GoFundMe request. Someone has also posted on the opposing site that Pace's paypal account is under FBI review. I have no idea how she knows that though, or if it's true. There's some real detectives with no lives on that opposing site, lol!

[Renai]

I was thinking about that too. If she's the one who works, what did she do with her kids all day long? Did she leave them at "home" to run the place? Is that why they say they are "installers" (in quotes because they are really no schoolers in my book). 

No, she said her husband is a stay at home dad that is in charge of running the homestead and taking care of the kids. At least, taking care of the ones that she didn't take with her to help her at work.

[Corraleno]

I was thinking about that too. If she's the one who works, what did she do with her kids all day long? Did she leave them at "home" to run the place? Is that why they say they are "installers" (in quotes because they are really no schoolers in my book). 

 

When she was working for her previous boss, she took the kids with her and they did the actual grooming work, for which she paid them $1/dog. The boss said that then Nicole would take the money and go buy herself McDonalds, and if the kids wanted anything to eat they had to pay for it themselves with the dollars they earned doing her job. The boss said she finally had to make a rule than Nicole couldn't bring the kids who were under 13 because she was worried that the little ones would get hurt.

When she was doing in-home grooming, it looks (from the photos) like she was taking a couple of the kids with her, and the rest stayed home with Joe. I assume the original plan with her own business was that the kids would work there, like they did before. I wonder what she's going to do now that she has no free labor?

[mamakelly]

:mellow: This just gets sadder and weirder by the minute.

[Audrey]

When she was working for her previous boss, she took the kids with her and they did the actual grooming work, for which she paid them $1/dog. The boss said that then Nicole would take the money and go buy herself McDonalds, and if the kids wanted anything to eat they had to pay for it themselves with the dollars they earned doing her job. The boss said she finally had to make a rule than Nicole couldn't bring the kids who were under 13 because she was worried that the little ones would get hurt.

When she was doing in-home grooming, it looks (from the photos) like she was taking a couple of the kids with her, and the rest stayed home with Joe. I assume the original plan with her own business was that the kids would work there, like they did before. I wonder what she's going to do now that she has no free labor?

 

There's always more where those came from. She's got another little slave-to-be cooking right now.