NOOOOOO!

[MrsWeasley]

I imagine that, even if they did want to rent at this point, they'd find it difficult to (a) find anyone who would rent to 12 going on 13 people and (b) find anyone who'd rent to them, period, since those pictures and stories have circulated.

 

I think this is why I'm slightly sympathetic to their gofundme campaign. I suspect that if Nicole left her husband and got into real housing, the kids would be better off with her rather than split into four foster homes. People talk a lot about government assistance, but since they "own" their home, they don't qualify for LINK. WIC would barely make a dent. IDK about Kentucky, but public housing waitlists keep much smaller families waiting for years for housing. I've definitely had landlords reluctant to rent to me because I had kids, period, or rent a two bedroom apartment to me when we were only a family of four. 

[Renai]

I think this is why I'm slightly sympathetic to their gofundme campaign. I suspect that if Nicole left her husband and got into real housing, the kids would be better off with her rather than split into four foster homes. 

 

I've heard of cases where a condition of reunification was one parent leave the abusive parent. But, these were instances of unmarried couples.

[Ottakee]

Where are all of their so called supporters of this off the grid lifestyle?

 

If they really had a ton of support they should have 20 or even 50 people out there working to help them clean up the place, donating fencing, helping secure good water and sanitation set ups etc.

 

I bet 50 (or even 20) people who KNEW how to homestead went out there for a weekend there could be significant improvements made in their property and shelter.

 

Do they own the land though?

[Corraleno]

Most of their supporters aren't local, they're people who've picked up the story off of various political sites and don't know anything about the family. The locals seem to be less... enthusiastic about them.  <_<

 

Same with the Stanleys — tons of people from all over the country are posting on their FB page and pontificating about the evil government stealing children, but only 6 people showed up to help clean up their property and rebuild the garden.

[Renai]

Where are all of their so called supporters of this off the grid lifestyle?

 

If they really had a ton of support they should have 20 or even 50 people out there working to help them clean up the place, donating fencing, helping secure good water and sanitation set ups etc.

 

I bet 50 (or even 20) people who KNEW how to homestead went out there for a weekend there could be significant improvements made in their property and shelter.

 

Do they own the land though?

 

A commentor on the fb page said less than half a dozen people showed up in their support on Monday for the hearing.

[Corraleno]

It will be interesting to see if any of the kids ask to go to school, like the Stanley kids did. Several years ago, when there still seemed to be at least a tiny bit of actually schooling going on (Nicole posted about using $9 "Complete Curriculum" workbooks from WalMart), she said that the oldest boy was really smart and loved to read. I assume he's the one who's taught the youngers, since Nicole admitted she has no idea how the little ones learned to read or count. If they're in PS while in foster care, I wonder if the older kids will ask to continue?

[Acorn]

I think I read that they are leasing the land.

[Halcyon]

Update from the saveourfamily website:

 

http://www.saveourfamily.info/family-reunited-for-the-weekend/

 

We are happy to announce that Joe and Nicole have been reunited with their children for the weekend. They have been asked by the court to not take any photos or recordings of their time with the children. The entire family will be staying together at the home of an approved foster family during their visit. We are respecting the Naugler’s precious family time and we may not have updates until after the visit. Please continue to remember them in your thoughts and prayers.

[Halcyon]

And I just saw this video of Joe. Cursing like that to the cops? That is something else. This is simply insane. By about minute 5:20 Joe is really getting worked up and the cop is truly being polite. I know there are bad cops out there, but this guy seems like he's really trying to be calm and sensible. And then Nicole chimes in "I don't profit from the seatbelt laws, but they do." ????

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ZTR7J1Hjs&feature=youtu.be

[Renai]

Update from the saveourfamily website:

 

http://www.saveourfamily.info/family-reunited-for-the-weekend/

 

We are happy to announce that Joe and Nicole have been reunited with their children for the weekend. They have been asked by the court to not take any photos or recordings of their time with the children. The entire family will be staying together at the home of an approved foster family during their visit. We are respecting the Naugler’s precious family time and we may not have updates until after the visit. Please continue to remember them in your thoughts and prayers.

 

No updates, except on the fb page. 

[Ottakee]

That is what I am wondering too. I can't have more than 4 fosters and 8 total and we have a large 5+ bedroom home with 3 full and one 1/2 bath.

 

Honestly I am suspicious that this is true......but I have been wring before

[Jyhwkmama]

And I just saw this video of Joe. Cursing like that to the cops? That is something else. This is simply insane. By about minute 5:20 Joe is really getting worked up and the cop is truly being polite. I know there are bad cops out there, but this guy seems like he's re they really trying to be calm and sensible. And then Nicole chimes in "I don't profit from the seatbelt laws, but they do." ????

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ZTR7J1Hjs&feature=youtu.be

 

I am really surprised they have left so many of their videos on youtube. 

[Halcyon]

The entire family will be staying with an approved foster family during their visit??? What foster family is approved to take in 12 people?!? Am I reading this wrong?

and my understanding is that, due to liability issues, parents cannot stay with their children in a foster family...

 

ETA: Okay, pulled this from a document analyyzing home visits from families to their children in Kentucky: 

 

"Kentucky’s policy actively discourages visits in the agency office: Visits may be held in the home of the parents, relatives, or foster family when feasible. When this is not feasible, neutral sites such as parks or shopping malls may be selected . . . Any visits held in the [agency] offices shall receive prior approval of the district manager unless the office was requested by the family or suggested by the court."

[Ottakee]

I am still thinking the visit would not be for the entire weekend including overnights. Most likely just a few hours at a time.

 

Hard to know but those foster parents have a tough job no matter what.

[Orthodox6]

and my understanding is that, due to liability issues, parents cannot stay with their children in a foster family...

 

ETA: Okay, pulled this from a document analyyzing home visits from families to their children in Kentucky: 

 

"Kentucky’s policy actively discourages visits in the agency office: Visits may be held in the home of the parents, relatives, or foster family when feasible. When this is not feasible, neutral sites such as parks or shopping malls may be selected . . . Any visits held in the [agency] offices shall receive prior approval of the district manager unless the office was requested by the family or suggested by the court."

 

Possible "neutral site" -- a foster family that owns, manages, and lives in a motel.

 

That sounds silly, I'm first to agree.  (Owning a motel is a fine occupation, anyway!)  I just can't envision any place that complies with KY laws and is large enough.

[TeenagerMom]

I really don't think they are having a weekend long visit. They haven't even had an adjudication hearing yet. Plus they are a HUGE flight risk. $40 something thousand dollars in the bank and have already hidden the kids from CPS once.

[Halcyon]

WHy would they be posting on facebook that they're happily snuggling around their 10 kids?

[TeenagerMom]

and my understanding is that, due to liability issues, parents cannot stay with their children in a foster family...

 

ETA: Okay, pulled this from a document analyyzing home visits from families to their children in Kentucky: 

 

"Kentucky’s policy actively discourages visits in the agency office: Visits may be held in the home of the parents, relatives, or foster family when feasible. When this is not feasible, neutral sites such as parks or shopping malls may be selected . . . Any visits held in the [agency] offices shall receive prior approval of the district manager unless the office was requested by the family or suggested by the court."

 

I'm in a FB group where a woman's DD supervises visits for Breckinridge Cty where they live & she stated supervised visits take place at a county office and her DD has never heard of a weekend long visitation in a foster home.

[TeenagerMom]

WHy would they be posting on facebook that they're happily snuggling around their 10 kids

 

I truly think because the Mom is putting up a front as to what is REALLY going on & wants the attention and to keep the money rolling in.  She NEEDS the public to think that CPS is truly returning those kids on Monday so she can keep her supporters.

[Χά�ων]

I truly think because the Mom is putting up a front as to what is REALLY going on & wants the attention and to keep the money rolling in. She NEEDS the public to think that CPS is truly returning those kids on Monday so she can keep her supporters.

And it will feed the anti-government frenzy if they do not get the kids back.

[TeenagerMom]

Frightening (don't click the link if wounds bother you)  These are a son's burn pics.  No medical care.  Notice how dirty the hand is? HUGE infection risk.

 

http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-homestead-journal-week-112.html

[TeenagerMom]

Head wound pics that didn't receive medical attention also.

 

http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-homestead-journal-week-117.html

[Jean in Newcastle]

Surely CPS knows to look at their blog and FB pages?  I was shocked at seeing 3000 some likes for her last post on her FB page.  I'm sure that feeds their feeling of being "righteous" in all of this.  

[unsinkable]

Frightening (don't click the link if wounds bother you) These are a son's burn pics. No medical care. Notice how dirty the hand is? HUGE infection risk.

 

http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-homestead-journal-week-112.html

And here it is 2 weeks later, very much on the road to healing and very clean.

 

http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-homestead-journal-week-114-baby.html

[TeenagerMom]

Surely CPS knows to look at their blog and FB pages?  I was shocked at seeing 3000 some likes for her last post on her FB page.  I'm sure that feeds their feeling of being "righteous" in all of this.  

 

I know the police did because it was mentioned in her arrest videos.  She had publicly made a threat to the neighbor who reported them on Facebook (then removed it).

[MrsWeasley]

The entire family will be staying with an approved foster family during their visit??? What foster family is approved to take in 12 people?!? Am I reading this wrong?

And why did they separate the children if a foster family could house all these people? 

[gardenmom5]

WHy would they be posting on facebook that they're happily snuggling around their 10 kids?

Garnering sympathy from their supporters.

[maize]

I will say I am really sympathetic to the housing plight of any large family who cannot afford (or don't have the credit) to buy their home. We had four children before we were able to move to an area with affordable home prices, and finding rentals willing to accommodate us was very hard.

[Catwoman]

I think this is why I'm slightly sympathetic to their gofundme campaign. I suspect that if Nicole left her husband and got into real housing, the kids would be better off with her rather than split into four foster homes. People talk a lot about government assistance, but since they "own" their home, they don't qualify for LINK. WIC would barely make a dent. IDK about Kentucky, but public housing waitlists keep much smaller families waiting for years for housing. I've definitely had landlords reluctant to rent to me because I had kids, period, or rent a two bedroom apartment to me when we were only a family of four.

I am not at all sympathetic to their GoFundMe campaign.

 

It does not appear that the wife has even the slightest intention of leaving her dh, and she hardly appears to be a candidate for Mother of the Year in any case. What mother would allow her children to live in such filthy, disgusting, and completely unsanitary conditions? It doesn't look like she has made the slightest attempt to clean anything or to properly care for or educate her children. When they were sick, they had to lie outdoors on the ground in the mud.

 

This is not a woman I want to support, unless she gets some serious therapy and counseling and completely turns her life around.

 

Oh, and she might also consider worrying more about the condition of her family's "home" instead of the place where she is running her dog grooming business. Her priorities are completely messed up.

[staceyobu]

Where are the feces pictures everyone is talking about?

 

How did they survive the winter in that?  Isn't it still snowing some places?  I mean, are they really living in that if they are all still alive?

[AimeeM]

Frightening (don't click the link if wounds bother you)  These are a son's burn pics.  No medical care.  Notice how dirty the hand is? HUGE infection risk.

 

http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-homestead-journal-week-112.html

... and according to that piece, it was totally the CHILD'S fault. 

And did I read correctly that another child applied first aid - not even an adult?

[Mergath]

Where are the feces pictures everyone is talking about?

 

How did they survive the winter in that?  Isn't it still snowing some places?  I mean, are they really living in that if they are all still alive?

 

The feces is churned into an unholy muck and stuck to the kids. If the people who claim to know them are to be believed, piles of feces are their normal condition, even when they lived in apartments. I doubt they've changed things now that they live in a shack.

 

Though apparently half of it has washed down into the pond, and that's why the pond is now an uninhabitable sludge. And I'm sure there's some in the piles of garbage others have mentioned.

[Mergath]

... and according to that piece, it was totally the CHILD'S fault. 

And did I read correctly that another child applied first aid - not even an adult?

 

That's the impression I got. That poor child. I can't even begin to imagine how excruciating that must have been. WHY in the world didn't she at least take him in to get pain medication? 

[imagine.more]

Update from the saveourfamily website:

 

http://www.saveourfamily.info/family-reunited-for-the-weekend/

 

We are happy to announce that Joe and Nicole have been reunited with their children for the weekend. They have been asked by the court to not take any photos or recordings of their time with the children. The entire family will be staying together at the home of an approved foster family during their visit. We are respecting the Naugler’s precious family time and we may not have updates until after the visit. Please continue to remember them in your thoughts and prayers.

Yeah like others I don't buy it.

 

A) they never approve foster homes for 10+ kids at a time, even for siblings. 6 kids including bios is the limit here in PA and most states have similar laws because of the high needs of any child in foster care. So many doctor, psychologist, social worker, and legal appointments. No way are all 10 kids at the same place overnight.

 

B) I have never heard of visitation happening at the foster home even for an hour, nevermind overnight. In a kidnapping risk situation (like this would be given the money they received and their history of hiding the kids) they don't even share the foster home address with the birth family. Actually even DD's birthmom never knew our address and she was not a risk.

 

C) weekend visits just a few weeks after removal at all would be odd. It's usually a gradual working up to that with first supervised 1-2 hour visits at the court house, then 1-2 hour visits with foster parents at a neutral location, then longer unsupervised visits, then after months of meeting goals and uneventful visits they try a weekend visit when there is hope of reuinification.

 

The family is either phrasing things oddly or outright lying about the weekend visit.

[MrsWeasley]

I am not at all sympathetic to their GoFundMe campaign.

 

It does not appear that the wife has even the slightest intention of leaving her dh, and she hardly appears to be a candidate for Mother of the Year in any case. What mother would allow her children to live in such filthy, disgusting, and completely unsanitary conditions? It doesn't look like she has made the slightest attempt to clean anything or to properly care for or educate her children. When they were sick, they had to lie outdoors on the ground in the mud.

 

This is not a woman I want to support, unless she gets some serious therapy and counseling and completely turns her life around.

 

Oh, and she might also consider worrying more about the condition of her family's "home" instead of the place where she is running her dog grooming business. Her priorities are completely messed up.

 

I don't think of it as supporting the mother. I think of it as supporting the kids. No family will be able to take all of them, and it breaks my heart that they have been separated. Her getting it together would be the best thing for those kids, and if that money helps those kids (and yes, there's no way of knowing if that'd happen), well, there's worse things to spend money on. 

[gardenmom5]

I don't think of it as supporting the mother. I think of it as supporting the kids. No family will be able to take all of them, and it breaks my heart that they have been separated. Her getting it together would be the best thing for those kids, and if that money helps those kids (and yes, there's no way of knowing if that'd happen), well, there's worse things to spend money on. 

 

if having her kids taken away finally wakes her up - well, it's about time.

 

they have received household goods and other support in the past.  they sold the goods (where did the money go?), and according to those who were there in the first person - complained (and threatened) when the support was NOT $$$.  if that money goes to supporting anything for the kids - I'll be surprised.

[Lady Florida.]

I feel so bad that those kids will have to be split up. I'm sure that they clung to each other while living on their so-called homestead. While I don't for a minute doubt that they're better off split up but in good conditions than together where they were before, I still hurt for them. 

 

 

 

This is also similar to The Glass Castle. It seems like if what that person said is true the father is dysfunctional and probably has substance abuse problems and more and it causes depression in the mom. 

 

Totally off topic, but Jeanette Walls and I are distantly related by marriage. Her MIL and mine are first cousins (well were, since my MIL has passed). So her husband and mine are what? Second cousins? Third? FTR, this is her current husband I speak of, not the one she was first married to in the book.

 

 

[Katy]

Plus, they'd have to have a bed for each child.  I suppose they could afford that now, if they get all the pledged money, but it still seems unlikely for them to spend money on beds when they previously sold donated beds.

[Slipper]

I don't think of it as supporting the mother. I think of it as supporting the kids. No family will be able to take all of them, and it breaks my heart that they have been separated. Her getting it together would be the best thing for those kids, and if that money helps those kids (and yes, there's no way of knowing if that'd happen), well, there's worse things to spend money on. 

I've been following this story with interest and wanted to comment on the above. I think, if people thought it would truly go to the kids' welfare, there wouldn't be such outrage over the money raised. I think everyone can agree that children should be safe and happy, even if their parents are worthless. People have given them things in the past, and I'm sure the children were in their mind as well. The parents sold these things. I don't believe for a minute that this money will be used to better the children's situation. If it were, they would have started using it already. In fact, with all of the support they seem to be generating, I find it suspicious that nobody has offered to come build them something with free labor. My guess is that they have and the parents are turning it down "until the kids come back." 

 

My guess is that they will buy a few token items with the money (a computer for the children to share) and then the rest of it will go on some bizarre things, or they will take the money and run (with the kids). 

[gardenmom5]

 

Totally off topic, but Jeanette Walls and I are distantly related by marriage. Her MIL and mine are first cousins (well were, since my MIL has passed). So her husband and mine are what? Second cousins? Third? FTR, this is her current husband I speak of, not the one she was first married to in the book.

 

1st cousins, once removed.

 

dd's FIL is first cousins with a very dear family friend that dh grew up with. (they grew up in different states)  we didn't know until she (the friend) received the wedding announcement.  it's a sign . . . . . ;p

[kwg]

Where does it say they sold the things previously given? And that they always lived in filth? I looked at her blog and she seemed "normal" for a while. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Where does it say they sold the things previously given? And that they always lived in filth? I looked at her blog and she seemed "normal" for a while. 

People who were in their LDS ward and knew them said both, I think. 

[gardenmom5]

People who were in their LDS ward and knew them said both, I think. 

 

they were also among those who said they threatened people who didn't give them $$$ as opposed to "goods". 

[Catwoman]

I don't think of it as supporting the mother. I think of it as supporting the kids. No family will be able to take all of them, and it breaks my heart that they have been separated. Her getting it together would be the best thing for those kids, and if that money helps those kids (and yes, there's no way of knowing if that'd happen), well, there's worse things to spend money on.

I don't think money will help the mom get her act together for the kids. I think money will do nothing more than enable her and her dh to continue their current lifestyle, and that when people donate money to them, it encourages them that they are being supported for believing that the life they are living is acceptable and normal.

 

The parents need serious intervention, not monetary donations.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that plenty of people would help that family if they were trying to provide a healthy environment for their children, but they are not. And they don't want to change.

[gardenmom5]

Where does it say they sold the things previously given? And that they always lived in filth? I looked at her blog and she seemed "normal" for a while. 

 

have you read the previous thread on the naugler family?

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/551204-have-you-all-followed-the-naugler-family/

 

if not, there are some links posted within that thread that I'm sure you'd find very eye opening.  pay especial attention to comments from those who actually know them. (and not those who've only read the blog.)

[LibraryLover]

And I just saw this video of Joe. Cursing

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ZTR7J1Hjs&feature=youtu.be

 

Over a seat belt? 

 

Right there. Is why I can't imagine that CPS would allow Joe to spend a weekend with the children in a foster home. You would need police presence given his/their anger, and we've seen & heard how well they get along with police. Nobody, I would think/hope, would put a foster parent in such a potentially volatile situation.

 

But. Why would they lie about something that could be so easily debunked?

[Xuzi]

 

 

But. Why would they lie about something that could be so easily debunked?

Ignorance over how easily it could be debunked?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Over a seat belt? 

 

Right there. Is why I can't imagine that CPS would allow Joe to spend a weekend with the children in a foster home. You would need police presence given his/their anger, and we've seen & heard how well they get along with police. Nobody, I would think/hope, would put a foster parent in such a potentially volatile situation.

 

But. Why would they lie about something that could be so easily debunked?

Because the only ones who can debunk it are CPS and they aren't commenting publicly on the case.  And even if they did, the Naugler's anti-government followers would not believe CPS over them.  

[SproutMamaK]

How COULD it be debunked, though? I mean, we all say it's not possible, but in the eyes of their supporters who WANT to believe it, and who will donate even more if they see people calling them out on it... we can say it's improbably and point out all the rules it can break, but the courts can't openly address it. The foster families can't openly address it. The only people allowed to say ANYTHING about this publicly are the family.

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm asking a legit question, so please don't jump on me, but does anyone else find it rather odd that they have iphones and expensive cameras but they aren't even bathed regularly?