NOOOOOO!

[Jean in Newcastle]

The grooming salon is gorgeous!  It doesn't look like any grooming salon around here, that's for sure.  (And yes, I've wondered if all that gorgeous wood was practical.)

[annandatje]

Their supporters comments are absolutely terrifying. So many comments about how wonderful it would be to live like that. Do people really think there is nothing wrong with that environment or are they interpreting the pictures differently than we are?

 

I read some posts on Blessed Little Homestead facebook page yesterday. 

 

Obviously they are understandably deleting rude mean-spirited unsupportive comments which were left in last ten days or so. 

 

However, what has me curious is that only supportive comments appear prior to the now nationwide notoriety. 

 

I wonder why none of the fellow homesteaders gently pointed out certain basics like properly segregating farm animal living quarters from humans and other glaring mistakes that broke inexperienced homesteaders make/made.  Mrs. Naugler herself states that BLH is a support and teaching site.  Maybe they already banished non-supportive members prior to the May 2015 brouhaha.

[Heather in VA]

I'm curious what it costs to set up and maintain a place like that. We have dog grooming places here. Heck we have dog day care LOL. but we also have self contained trucks that come to you and have all the necessary supplies inside to take care of the pooch. It probably costs more upfront but I would think it would be cheaper to maintain down the road with no rent plus the fact that you could probably charge more for the convenience of at-home service. Here's what one in our area looks like. 

 

http://www.bubblesmobilepetgrooming.com

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

I wonder why none of the fellow homesteaders gently pointed out certain basics like properly segregating farm animal living quarters from humans and other glaring mistakes that broke inexperienced homesteaders make/made.  Mrs. Naugler herself states that BLH is a support and teaching site.  Maybe they already banished non-supportive members prior to the May 2015 brouhaha.

Right there you see a lack of humility that would make them teachable.  They are newbies to this and yet have set themselves up as teachers of what homesteading is.  Any constructive criticism is seen as attacking them.  

[Heather in VA]

I read some posts on Blessed Little Homestead facebook page yesterday. 

 

Obviously they are understandably deleting rude mean-spirited unsupportive comments which were left in last ten days or so. 

 

However, what has me curious is that only supportive comments appear prior to the now nationwide notoriety. 

 

I wonder why none of the fellow homesteaders gently pointed out certain basics like properly segregating farm animal living quarters from humans and other glaring mistakes that broke inexperienced homesteaders make/made.  Mrs. Naugler herself states that BLH is a support and teaching site.  Maybe they already banished non-supportive members prior to the May 2015 brouhaha.

 

I read some stuff on the 'anti-blessed homestead' page about this.  They cut and pasted some  posts from the Blessed Little Homestead FB page because things have been getting removed. There was one poster in particular that even the supporters thought was being kind in offering help and advice but he was banned. They seem to welcome cheerleading posts but not much else.

[annandatje]

...It has been speculated that they do not own the land. ...

 

It is not speculation.  Mrs. Naugler wrote on Blessed Little Homestead that they leased the land from a real estate company.  However, she did not specifically state that it was a lease purchase agreement.  She gave no details about terms of lease.

[Renai]

 

 

I wonder why none of the fellow homesteaders gently pointed out certain basics like properly segregating farm animal living quarters from humans and other glaring mistakes that broke inexperienced homesteaders make/made.  Mrs. Naugler herself states that BLH is a support and teaching site.  Maybe they already banished non-supportive members prior to the May 2015 brouhaha.

 

They have pointed them out. The posts were probably deleted because they weren't supportive enough. To leave those posts up would be admitting there was something wrong in the first place.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I dislike extremism on either end.  So I dislike those who attack them without any discernment as well as those who praise them without any discernment.

 

 I do think that we can make some predictions based on certain trends of behaviors and thought processes but people can have a change of heart and mind so really the only real proof is what happens over time.  I think this is what CPS sees over and over again in all their cases - some fairly hopeless looking trends but some success stories in the midst of it.  CPS has appeared to be pretty levelheaded in this case which is good since it's fairly obvious that the Nauglers and their supporters would be all over them if they weren't (I mean legally and not just verbally).  

[Renai]

I read some stuff on the 'anti-blessed homestead' page about this.  They cut and pasted some  posts from the Blessed Little Homestead FB page because things have been getting removed. There was one poster in particular that even the supporters thought was being kind in offering help and advice but he was banned. They seem to welcome cheerleading posts but not much else.

 

You mean Stuart?

[Heather in VA]

Any constructive criticism is seen as attacking them.  

 

This is the crux of why I wonder if they will ever get their kids back. They have taken their anti-government, 'I have rights' thing to the extreme of viewing any advice, any criticism, any suggestion as an attack on their fundamental rights and freedoms no matter who is making the suggestion. Even simple suggestions from a regular person (i.e. not a government representative) is viewed as an attempt to make them change their ideals. With that kind of pervasive defensive attitude, they may not be able to hear enough constructive advice to make the changes they need to make to get their kids back. 

[annandatje]

Their supporters comments are absolutely terrifying. So many comments about how wonderful it would be to live like that. Do people really think there is nothing wrong with that environment or are they interpreting the pictures differently than we are?

 

Perplexing isn't it?  Almost as if supporters' ideology takes precedence over common sense.

 

[Heather in VA]

You mean Stuart?

 

I think that was his name. I don't know what kind of things he said but people who also posted very supportive 'you are doing a great thing here' type posts also posted that this guy (Stuart I think) was offering kind suggestions. So I concluded that he probably wasn't posting the more nasty type posts but still got banned. It is her FB page. She can do what she wants. It's not that different from the Duggars editing their FB page which they've done too. 

[Renai]

Can anyone post on her homestead FB page? I see all sorts of posts I want to respond to, but it won't let me

 

Yes. 

ETA: It's a public page.

[Ottakee]

We are so grateful that our children were reunited for the entire weekend. On Monday, our visit ended and we were left without them again.

 

The above is a quote from their facebook page. It say the CHILDREN were reunited...........NOT that the PARENTS were reunited with the kids for the entire weekend. It could be that the parents had a short (usually 1-2 hour visit) with the kids but that the KIDS were all reunited over the weekend so that they could have more sibling contact. I think they want people to think that they spent the entire weekend with the kids but that is very very highly unlikely.

[Orthodox6]

/

[Renai]

We are so grateful that our children were reunited for the entire weekend. On Monday, our visit ended and we were left without them again. 

 

The above is a quote from their facebook page.  It say the CHILDREN were reunited...........NOT that the PARENTS were reunited with the kids for the entire weekend.  It could be that the parents had a short (usually-2 hour visit) with the kids but that the KIDS were all reunited over the weekend so that they could have more sibling contact.  I think they want people to think that they spent the entire weekend with the kids but that is very very highly unlikely.

 

But the next part says "On Monday, OUR visit ended..."

 

On the fb, someone questioned it in a way that put the incorrect info in the news media's lap (less likely to get banned, probably). They did answer back that the news have short turn-around so will get some things wrong. They also said that if the Naugler's would lie so publicly (on fb) it would defeat their case.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The thing about scams is that they tend to be found out simply because the scammer either has to start making good on their claims, or skip town.  They can't skip town this time because CPS has the children.  Unless they abandon the children.  I get the sense that the father doesn't care so much about the kids.  It's just based on one quote but it really hit me:  ""Her (Nicole Naugler) not handling it well has made me not handle it well," Joe Naugler told NBC during the interview."  Now I know there is more than one way to interpret what he said, but my dh would be distraught all on his own at having our children in CPS custody.  

[Guest]

The thing about scams is that they tend to be found out simply because the scammer either has to start making good on their claims, or skip town.  They can't skip town this time because CPS has the children.  Unless they abandon the children.  I get the sense that the father doesn't care so much about the kids.  It's just based on one quote but it really hit me:  ""Her (Nicole Naugler) not handling it well has made me not handle it well," Joe Naugler told NBC during the interview."  Now I know there is more than one way to interpret what he said, but my dh would be distraught all on his own at having our children in CPS custody.  

 

I would not be shocked in the slightest if these two disappear before the new baby is born.  "Forced" to abandon the other children and all that.

[Renai]

I would not be shocked in the slightest if these two disappear before the new baby is born.  "Forced" to abandon the other children and all that.

 

Whoa. I hope not. If that happens, I still think it would be because she's under the influence - of him. She doesn't look well, and I don't think that's an act. (But I can think all I want and it not be true.)

[kwg]

I would not be shocked in the slightest if these two disappear before the new baby is born.  "Forced" to abandon the other children and all that.

Yes, that is what I meant earlier. Cut her losses and start anew.

[mamakelly]

Yes.

ETA: It's a public page.

Hmmm. I must be banned then. There isn't anyway for me to post. I can't even "like" things anymore. I just commented about needing beds for each kid. Nothing nasty, lol.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Hmmm. I must be banned then. There isn't anyway for me to post. I can't even "like" things anymore. I just commented about needing beds for each kid. Nothing nasty, lol.

They are banning people left and right, apparently, unless there is unqualified admiration of them.  I could understand banning someone who is foul-mouthed and nasty in their posts but not the kinds of posts that are being deleted and banned.  

[Renai]

Hmmm. I must be banned then. There isn't anyway for me to post. I can't even "like" things anymore. I just commented about needing beds for each kid. Nothing nasty, lol.

 

Was it the one about the parents having beds and the kids on pallets?

[LucyStoner]

I hadn't read it was an older woman from whom he was stealing the water.

 

if Nicole has any sense - she will dump this man and get lots of therapy.  I don't think she's too far gone to benefit from that.   seems her life started to go downhill when she hooked up with him, and it just gets worse every year.

 

 

If Nicole had the sense God gave her, she wouldn't have let this Joe person knock her up 11 times after he cheated on her and had a child with another woman.  

 

I assume she is unwell mentally or there's some sort of DV dynamic that is getting in the way of her acting in the kids or her self interest.  The dude is just clearly not a keeper.  I get the feeling these people haven't been functional in a long time, if ever.  

[idnib]

If Nicole had the sense God gave her, she wouldn't have let this Joe person knock her up 11 times after he cheated on her and had a child with another woman.  

 

I assume she is unwell mentally or there's some sort of DV dynamic that is getting in the way of her acting in the kids or her self interest.  The dude is just clearly not a keeper.  I get the feeling these people haven't been functional in a long time, if ever.  

 

I read somewhere that she had her own apartment and a job and was evicted within 6 months of meeting Joe. My instinct is that he's very manipulative and quick to anger.

[Seasider]

It is not speculation.  Mrs. Naugler wrote on Blessed Little Homestead that they leased the land from a real estate company.  However, she did not specifically state that it was a lease purchase agreement.  She gave no details about terms of lease.

 

 

I would love to see a statement from the leasing company. Wonder if they had any idea how the property would be..."developed."

[mamakelly]

Was it the one about the parents having beds and the kids on pallets?

 

No, I just said something about that they would probably need actual beds for each kid, not a large pallet for everyone. 

[LucyStoner]

I read somewhere that she had her own apartment and a job and was evicted within 6 months of meeting Joe. My instinct is that he's very manipulative and quick to anger.

I abhor men like that. I seriously just want to vote him off the island.

[gardenmom5]

If Nicole had the sense God gave her, she wouldn't have let this Joe person knock her up 11 times after he cheated on her and had a child with another woman.  

 

I assume she is unwell mentally or there's some sort of DV dynamic that is getting in the way of her acting in the kids or her self interest.  The dude is just clearly not a keeper.  I get the feeling these people haven't been functional in a long time, if ever.  

 

or probably both.

 

It seems her life has been going downhill since she met him.  

 

he's the kind of guy that prompted the father in clueless to say "I have a .45 and a shovel and no one will miss you."

[Renai]

If Nicole had the sense God gave her, she wouldn't have let this Joe person knock her up 11 times after he cheated on her and had a child with another woman.  

 

I assume she is unwell mentally or there's some sort of DV dynamic that is getting in the way of her acting in the kids or her self interest.  The dude is just clearly not a keeper.  I get the feeling these people haven't been functional in a long time, if ever.  

 

I know others have commented on the DV dynamic. In the very few clips I've seen of the two together, it does look like that type of relationship. I was just telling my daughter (15) that I had worked (volunteered) at a dv shelter, and what I saw of the two was just really familiar.

[Renai]

No, I just said something about that they would probably need actual beds for each kid, not a large pallet for everyone. 

 

Oh, ok. I think I saw that one too. There is one up (the last time I checked) about why the parents have a mattress and the kids are on pallets. I wonder how long that will stay up.

[Corraleno]

I read somewhere that she had her own apartment and a job and was evicted within 6 months of meeting Joe. My instinct is that he's very manipulative and quick to anger.

 

I think that must have been when they got back together after their separation, because she said on her blog that they met while she was still in high school:

 

"My senior year I began dating my husband... <snip> About a year after we got together we moved to Wisconsin to stay with his brother. That led to Joe and I breaking up for a few months and went our separate ways. Joe went back to New Hampshire and I went to Texas. Shortly after we reconciled, we were informed that a woman Joe had slept with during our separation was pregnant. She suspected Joe was the father. It was an incredible blow to both of us, in different ways of course. I had already suffered a miscarriage in the beginning of our relationship. It was not easy, but I had to make a decision. I decided to stay with him."

 

 So, except for those few months, she's been with him for 20 years, since she was a teenager.  :sad:

[idnib]

I think that must have been when they got back together after their separation, because she said on her blog that they met while she was still in high school:

 

"My senior year I began dating my husband... <snip> About a year after we got together we moved to Wisconsin to stay with his brother. That led to Joe and I breaking up for a few months and went our separate ways. Joe went back to New Hampshire and I went to Texas. Shortly after we reconciled, we were informed that a woman Joe had slept with during our separation was pregnant. She suspected Joe was the father. It was an incredible blow to both of us, in different ways of course. I had already suffered a miscarriage in the beginning of our relationship. It was not easy, but I had to make a decision. I decided to stay with him."

 

 So, except for those few months, she's been with him for 20 years, since she was a teenager.  :sad:

 

I found my source because I wasn't comfortable throwing the info out there without remembering where I found it. It's in the comments by someone with initials KOH on this page. It's a comment and not reporting, but at least the person attached their name to it. (If the name is real.) I wonder how this fits into the timeline. Maybe they met in high school and after high school they were still together but she had a job and her own place and then he moved in after that?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Based on her behavior with the police when she was arrested and in the video of the traffic stop, I am not so quick to label Nicole as a victim of Joe.  She seems very aggressive and disordered on her own.

[Corraleno]

Well, here's a bit of irony... Back in 2012 they were living in a nice rented farmhouse with gas, running water, and working toilets, plus a clean and well-organized schoolroom and flexible lesson plans for each of the kids. Things looked reasonably clean and tidy and there were lots of pictures of the kids reading, playing in the grass (not poop soup), and such. And look what Nicole was reading:

 

"I am reading A Well Trained Mind, rather scanning through it taking notes..."

 

 

[Mergath]

Based on her behavior with the police when she was arrested and in the video of the traffic stop, I am not so quick to label Nicole as a victim of Joe.  She seems very aggressive and disordered on her own.

 

In all fairness, dealing with years of DV can leave a person pretty messed up. Obviously we don't know for sure if that's the case here, but I wouldn't dismiss her being a victim of DV just because of her actions in the video. When I was going through it, I wasn't exactly the picture of mental stability.

[idnib]

Well, here's a bit of irony... Back in 2012 they were living in a nice rented farmhouse with gas, running water, and working toilets, plus a clean and well-organized schoolroom and flexible lesson plans for each of the kids. Things looked reasonably clean and tidy and there were lots of pictures of the kids reading, playing in the grass (not poop soup), and such. And look what Nicole was reading:

 

"I am reading A Well Trained Mind, rather scanning through it taking notes..."

 

I guess she followed it up with the lesser-known A Well Lost Mind and decided to go with that instead.

[Seasider]

I guess she decided to follow it up with the lesser-known A Well Lost Mind and decided to go with that instead.

 

Well now I see a s/o thread: WLM chapter headings. 

[LucyStoner]

Based on her behavior with the police when she was arrested and in the video of the traffic stop, I am not so quick to label Nicole as a victim of Joe. She seems very aggressive and disordered on her own.

A DV dynamic can and often does encompass the whole family.

 

Generally the DV shelters here direct many victims to anger management and DV classes as well. The abused can also be abusive (especially to children or non-family members).

 

It's not as simple as thinking victim=innocent or healthy.

 

After spending her entire adult life with this winner, I would expect that she is aggressive and disordered. Who knows if she would have been better or worse without him around.

[gardenmom5]

A DV dynamic can and often does encompass the whole family.

 

Generally the DV shelters here direct many victims to anger management and DV classes as well. The abused can also be abusive (especially to children or non-family members).

 

It's not as simple as thinking victim=innocent or healthy.

 

After spending her entire adult life with this winner, I would expect that she is aggressive and disordered. Who knows if she would have been better or worse without him around.

:iagree:

 

 

DV victim often = dysfunctional.  even if they were somewhat functional to start with.

 

she had an apartment and a job when they started living together/got married.  six months later, she didn't.

[LucyStoner]

:iagree:

 

 

DV victim often = dysfunctional. even if they were somewhat functional to start with.

 

she had an apartment and a job when they started living together/got married. six months later, she didn't.

It's important to note however that DV can and does happen to women who are extremely functional, capable and healthy.

 

That said, just like pedophiles look for kids who are most vulnerable to their machinations, DV abusers often use a somewhat similar process.

 

When she's almost always pregnant or just recently postpartum yet she's the worker, there's just a big fat red flag there.

[mellifera33]

Well, here's a bit of irony... Back in 2012 they were living in a nice rented farmhouse with gas, running water, and working toilets, plus a clean and well-organized schoolroom and flexible lesson plans for each of the kids. Things looked reasonably clean and tidy and there were lots of pictures of the kids reading, playing in the grass (not poop soup), and such. And look what Nicole was reading:

 

"I am reading A Well Trained Mind, rather scanning through it taking notes..."

I wonder if she's a member here.

[Acorn]

I wonder if she's a member here.

 

I've been trying to remember if she was around the cloth diapering boards.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

In all fairness, dealing with years of DV can leave a person pretty messed up. Obviously we don't know for sure if that's the case here, but I wouldn't dismiss her being a victim of DV just because of her actions in the video. When I was going through it, I wasn't exactly the picture of mental stability.

 

Agreed but I don't think we can say she is acting messed up so there must be DV.

 

My point is that I don't thin we can simply brush her behavior off on abuse or say hat she should just get her act together and dump him.  I think it is possible she is as deep in the nuttiness as he is and is a willing participant.

[Renai]

Based on her behavior with the police when she was arrested and in the video of the traffic stop, I am not so quick to label Nicole as a victim of Joe.  She seems very aggressive and disordered on her own.

 

Crazy can be contagious in dv relationships.

[LucyStoner]

I don't assume that her crazy actions are a byproduct of DV but my DV alarm bells have been pinging from pretty early on reading about them. Something, as Miss Clavel says, is not right.

[Renthead Mommy]

An answer to our previous questions about tetanus shots... 

 

Out of boredom, I was checking out her blog.  Under her "Education" section, I was hoping to see what she used for curric.  Instead her 'education' is on Vaccine information and links she found helpful.  Two of them were dead links, the third worked.

 

http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/education/

 

Under Tetanus Vaccine: Fact or Fiction  this is what I found: 

 

So what is Tetanus?

Tetanus is the name of a sickness you get when the bacterium Clostridium tetani enters your body and flourishes (with a life cycle). The emphasis should be on ‘flourishes’ because Clostridium tetani requires an anaerobic environment. What does this mean? It means for the bacterium to survive, it must be in an environment free of oxygen.

In other words, to get sick with Tetanus, you must get the Clostridium tetani into your body, such as through the infamous example of stepping on a nail. Then you must ensure that the wound does not get oxygenated (does not bleed and is not exposed to air) and you must ensure the bacterium multiplies enough to start a life cycle, because the toxins released when they die is what causes Tetanus symptoms.

Summary: Tetanus requires a wound that is deep enough and neglected enough to create an anaerobic environment so that the bacteria can flourish, die off and spread a toxin in the body. The incubation period is 3-21 days, the average being 8 days.

And what does it mean to ‘oxygenate’? It means to bleed. Blood is oxygenated by passing through the lungs and then flowing through the body to oxygenate all the tissues. That is how we live. We are oxygenated creatures. So if you step on a nail and you bleed, the Clostridium tetani cannot live. In other words, Tetanus is impossible to get if you are alive, pumping blood normally through your body and taking care of the wound.

Feel bamboozled yet?

So I'm thinking that would be a big NO on where she got tetanus for her kids.

[ktgrok]

Sooo..all the people that died of lockjaw weren't actually alive to start with? That's her conclusion???

[Guest]

An answer to our previous questions about tetanus shots...

 

Out of boredom, I was checking out her blog. Under her "Education" section, I was hoping to see what she used for curric. Instead her 'education' is on Vaccine information and links she found helpful. Two of them were dead links, the third worked.

 

 

 

http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/education/

 

Under Tetanus Vaccine: Fact or Fiction this is what I found:

 

So what is Tetanus?

Tetanus is the name of a sickness you get when the bacterium Clostridium tetani enters your body and flourishes (with a life cycle). The emphasis should be on ‘flourishes’ because Clostridium tetani requires an anaerobic environment. What does this mean? It means for the bacterium to survive, it must be in an environment free of oxygen.

 

In other words, to get sick with Tetanus, you must get the Clostridium tetani into your body, such as through the infamous example of stepping on a nail. Then you must ensure that the wound does not get oxygenated (does not bleed and is not exposed to air) and you must ensure the bacterium multiplies enough to start a life cycle, because the toxins released when they die is what causes Tetanus symptoms.

 

Summary: Tetanus requires a wound that is deep enough and neglected enough to create an anaerobic environment so that the bacteria can flourish, die off and spread a toxin in the body. The incubation period is 3-21 days, the average being 8 days.

 

And what does it mean to ‘oxygenate’? It means to bleed. Blood is oxygenated by passing through the lungs and then flowing through the body to oxygenate all the tissues. That is how we live. We are oxygenated creatures. So if you step on a nail and you bleed, the Clostridium tetani cannot live. In other words, Tetanus is impossible to get if you are alive, pumping blood normally through your body and taking care of the wound.

 

Feel bamboozled yet?

So I'm thinking that would be a big NO on where she got tetanus for her kids.

Yep. Big Tetanus is in bed with The Man. Hide the children!

[melmichigan]

Where is the facepalm emoticon?!?