WDYT? Top ten percent of households (income)

[Luckymama]

PAID internships? Uhhhh. Isn't that an oxymoron? Again, not snarky. Serious.

They exist. Ds has had two. The one between junior and senior years offered him a full-time job after graduation (he accepted another offer).

 

Lest you think they are only available in more lucrative fields like computer science or engineering, I personally know students (at the University of Our State) majoring in history, political science, and English (yes, English) who held paid internships last summer.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Paid internships do exist. That said there are a lot more unpaid and low pay internships than ones that pay "25-45k for the summer". The only people I know who got anywhere close to $20k for a summer internship were at elite schools. Not western state u. A 20 hour a week internship paying $20 an hour comes to just over $20k for a full 12 month year. Most internships I see are more like $0-12/hr though. I didn't do internships in college (which would have advanced my career choices) because i needed way more money than they were offering (as I was the main provider for myself and my high school aged brother).

 

There are lots of ways to hack through school but the options are decidedly more limited now than they were even 10 years ago.

 

20k!  Wow.  No I never heard that. 

 

The job I was offered would have amounted to about $1600 before taxes.  At the time that would have been a huge chunk of change to me.  Although barely enough to cover 1 year's worth of books.  How crazy is that?! 

[idnib]

. 

 

[LucyStoner]

I've had interns work for me at my past jobs and yes, they were paid. Less than minimum wage tho. They got less than the work study students. All were being financially supported by mom and dad unless they were in a JVC or similar program where they also got group housing (ergo only suitable for students without dependents).

[Tanaqui]

 

Seeing people say "impossible" or "yeah right" to a whole list of suggestions that have worked for many?  To me that suggests some people are too ready to make excuses.  If someone chooses not to pursue opportunities, or is afraid of failure (or afraid of success), then fine, let's call it what it is.  Talk about it like a positive choice, not a cop-out.  "I decided I'd rather start earning money and enjoying my free time now rather than go to all the trouble to get a higher education."  It's a valid choice.

 

For every person those suggestions have worked for, there are a dozen others who those suggestions have failed for.

 

It's hard, it always has been, but it's not impossible.

 

It's not possible for everybody. The system would collapse if everybody was able to claw their way to the top. If they did that, who would be left to serve the food at McDonald's and wipe the snotty noses at daycare and drive the trucks and make the cheap shirts and tech?

 

It's like the Olympics. Sure, maybe every person has a shot at winning gold... but during any human lifetime, only a small number of people will accomplish that, and there really is NOTHING you can do to change that.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

For every person those suggestions have worked for, there are a dozen others who those suggestions have failed for.

 

 

It's not possible for everybody. The system would collapse if everybody was able to claw their way to the top. If they did that, who would be left to serve the food at McDonald's and wipe the snotty noses at daycare and drive the trucks and make the cheap shirts and tech?

 

It's like the Olympics. Sure, maybe every person has a shot at winning gold... but during any human lifetime, only a small number of people will accomplish that, and there really is NOTHING you can do to change that.

 

This is very true.  I was aware of the options.  I was willing to figure out what the options were.  Most of the options weren't my options though. 

 

I wanted to go to grad school.  That didn't pan out. 

 

But it's ok.  I am living pretty cushily at this point so I can't complain.

[Pawz4me]

Unpaid internships have effectively ended with some new regulation change last year.

Yes.

[idnib]

. 

 

[Murphy101]

I get it. I faced a ton of hurdles. My parents died when I was a teenager.

 

But if someone asked me, how did you get through school on your own...and then brushed off every thing I shared, I'd stop sharing.

Listen. I'm not brushing it off. And I don't want people to stop sharing.

 

That wasn't the point of my post.

 

My point was it is flat out:

 

Not like it was 20 years ago.

 

And

 

Even 20 years ago, it was not as simple as it sounds. Just grit and determination and doing without.

 

The SUPPORT and the NETTING is the key. And even with it only a meager few could manage it 20 years ago.

 

If we have LESS support and netting to help these days, and there's really plenty of evidence it is less and being spread to more people, then how can we expect the same things that worked for very few 20 years ago to work better now? It won't. And it isn't.

 

I think all those ideas are great. I'm all for giving people the opportunity to do them.

 

Problem is, very few actually have those opportunities.

[unsinkable]

Martha...my parents were dead. Dead as in no support. No netting.

 

And I'm not telling my story here...no thanks.

[LucyStoner]

This reminds me of an article I saw about 7-8 years ago. I can't find it now. Anyway, it was a study to examine the number one reason for the success of students in their fields. Allowing for major, grades, etc it found the number one thing richer students had going for them was the ability to take unpaid/low paid internships in their field. Students with loans or bills had to take what they could get, which sometimes included things in their field but often did not. That extra year or two of being supported by family and getting one's foot in the door really made the most difference, according to the study.

Yup, it's one of the biggest things that we plan to offer our children which I absolutely could not do as a young adult. Quite apart from the need to support myself, I was supporting my brother too. Tips from cleaning ritzy bed and breakfast rooms made more financial sense for me than a low paid internship because, well, we both like to eat.

[Melissa in Australia]

BTW, I read sonewhere that outside of the US, having a clothes dryer isn't ne essarily the norm. The mind boggles, lol. I know it is supposedly hard on clothes, and not environmental, but I love my dryer.

The general attitude around in Aus is that people who use a clothes dryer when it isn't raining are incredibly lazy and are  majorly destroying the planet. just expressing views that are in other countries, not saying you are lazy.

 

 

 

I don't have a clothes dryer. if it is raining the washing is hung under the veranda or on drying racks in front of the wood heater.

 

 

 

I know my MIL in Canada hangs her wash in the basement year round.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Oh and the GI Bill.  Ah yes.  I was going to go that route.  Was all signed up at 17.  Ready to go.  I did drills every week for a year prior.  I came across more people who didn't get what they were promised than did.  They didn't get to go to school.  They didn't get their bonuses.  I changed my mind.  That seemed like a lot to go through without knowing I'd get the education assistance promised. 

 

That's a shame- I joined in 1999, left for basic in 2000. I got my $20,000 bonus (in installments) and the GI Bill- The Gi Bill covered my expenses of online school and I had an extra $1500 a month that I didn't have to claim on my taxes. I met DH in the Army, so he got the same thing. I didn't finish my degree, but he did- and started working on his Masters. But he was making six figures before he even finished his degree- why? Military training and experience that follows you for the rest of your life, opening door after door. Everything from preferntial hiring for Veterans, all the way down to getting the best rates and customer service with USAA, to getting the Govt/Military rates with Marriott for personal vacation, and getting to take advantage of the Armed Forces Vacation Club.

 

We lived in Monterey, CA and Hawaii- two of the most beautiful places in the US, imo.

 

Seeing as how we were in the Army for 5 years (I only did 3.5) we have lots and lots and LOTS of military friends. None of them ever had any issues using their GI Bill or getting a bonus. Many of them switched to the Post 9/11 GI Bill and are able to pass that money on down to their children because they got their degrees while Active Duty, which means the Army paid for their schooling (undergrad and grad) without even tapping into their GI Bill.

 

I can't think of a single old Army buddy or acquaintance that isn't doing very well. Some of them are still in the military, a lot are also in federal government, some are contractors- some became policemen, nurses, and other medical occupations.

 

Joining the Army was the absolute best thing we ever did, and has made, and will continue to make, a huge impact on our lives.

 

The only people I knew/know that had the issues you are speaking of, are the ones who couldn't/didn't make it through boot camp, or AIT- or had mental health and/or personality issues that got them in trouble or kicked out before they met the time requirements for those benefits. The Army isn't going to just hand over $20,000 because you signed your name on a line or made it through a measly12 weeks of military life....

 

 

[Katy]

For every person those suggestions have worked for, there are a dozen others who those suggestions have failed for.

 

 

It's not possible for everybody. The system would collapse if everybody was able to claw their way to the top. If they did that, who would be left to serve the food at McDonald's and wipe the snotty noses at daycare and drive the trucks and make the cheap shirts and tech?

 

It's like the Olympics. Sure, maybe every person has a shot at winning gold... but during any human lifetime, only a small number of people will accomplish that, and there really is NOTHING you can do to change that.

 

I don't know a single non-handicapped adult who worked in fast food for more than six months and didn't get selected for either a management training program or for an assistant manager job. 

 

Everyone I know who works in daycare either did it because they were passionate about kids and LOVED them and cared about that more than money and hated the idea of sitting in a cubicle or lab all day or it was temporary- one woman I know worked at a daycare during her college years to save money for an unaccredited ministry training program.  She thought it was good practice because she planned on marrying someone in ministry, popping out half a dozen kids, and leading culturally rich but financially poor lives as foreign missionaries.  Last I knew her husband was a youth pastor at a mega church in Texas.   Daycare owners can make a lot of money though.

 

Have you looked at average truck driver salaries lately?  Last I knew it was comporable to those of assistant district attorneys.  They make a lot of money.  You have to be 25, you have to be able to put up with the pressure and danger and being away from home.  There are long-distance husband-wife teams who make well over $150k per year.

 

Last I knew, no cheap shirts are manufactured in the USA.  They are imported.

 

The idea that there is a lack of opportunity is ridiculous.  Nothing would collapse.  The economy would expand, just as it always has.  In areas where there aren't enough workers because there are abundant job opportunities, inflation happens.  Checkout clerks make $15/hour.   That's $30k a year!  You can afford to share an apartment with roommates, get a computer, and learn accounting online with a salary like that.

 

I am not stating that everyone should make those choices.  I'm convinced those programs are so difficult because they put extraordinary demands on you career wise.   Many people, including myself, just don't want to work that hard. I personally would rather live on half the gross income we could have, stay home, and invest time in my friends and family and home.  I don't want to work 60-100 hours a week and sub out my parenting to a nanny.   And our marriage and our lives are much better for it.  I take care of everything so that DH alone can work ridiculous hours.  I make sure we don't eat much processed food, that we all have time in nature, that we are all happy.  Those are legitimate life choices.  I think me not making money makes our lives MUCH better than if I was making that sort of money.  I can't imagine having a happy marriage if we were both working more than 60 hours a week.   But if something changed, and we had a financial need (a child with severe medical needs?) that was greater than my need for my family to have a happy, easy life and a challenging education, you bet your rear end I'd put my kids in public school and go back to work.

[happypamama]

All depends on how you define "vacation"............. some people define it as Disney and cruises, other define it as a week long visit to Grandma and Grandpa's................... and everything in between.

But even if you are at the grandparents' for a week, even three times a year, it means you have a job where either you have enough money to cover the lost wages for those days OR you have a job where you can telecommute while on vacation for a week OR you have a job that has generous vacation time. Or some combination of those. Working class people don't have several weeks of time off from their job available to them, even if their only expense for the vacation is gas to get the Grandma's. I'd say multiple vacations a year, of any type, put you in some sort of upper tier.

[Murphy101]

And ALL of those suggestions presume poor people without families.

 

The original point of this thread was not discussing poor 18 year old high school graduates.

 

We are talking all households with income. 90% of them make less than 100k and most of them make closer to 50k.

 

Those suggestions with kids aren't going to get easier.

[creekland]

Unpaid internships have effectively ended with some new regulation change last year.  Internships that pay in excess of $20k for a summer are either at elite schools OR in very difficult fields.  They are common in engineering.

 

Internships that pay less than $20k are common in fields like accounting or actuarial science.

 

Can you provide a link to internships that pay in excess of 20K for a summer?  I'd really like to see what some of these are and pass on suggestions.

 

My guys have had paid summer work, but it's generally enough to live on (since they don't live at home).  Around home it's just basic jobs for those without degrees.

[Melissa in Australia]

Clotheslines are outlawed where I live.  :glare:

So glad I live in a country with real freedom

[Pam in CT]

This reminds me of an article I saw about 7-8 years ago. I can't find it now. Anyway, it was a study to examine the number one reason for the success of students in their fields. Allowing for major, grades, etc it found the number one thing richer students had going for them was the ability to take unpaid/low paid internships in their field. Students with loans or bills had to take what they could get, which sometimes included things in their field but often did not. That extra year or two of being supported by family and getting one's foot in the door really made the most difference, according to the study.

 

Yes.  

 

The $25K+ / summer internships do exist but are rare, mostly limited to finance, and (not surprisingly!) extremely competitive.  

 

My college age daughter considers herself fortunate for having been able to get paid internships at $10-15 / hour in her field for the last two summers and this upcoming one.  BUT, they've been in New York, which is where her field is concentrated and where COL is very high.  She certainly would not have been able to pay an upfront rental deposit or even cover her public transportation / living expenses had she not been able to stay with relatives who lived in the city.  

[Katy]

This reminds me of an article I saw about 7-8 years ago. I can't find it now. Anyway, it was a study to examine the number one reason for the success of students in their fields. Allowing for major, grades, etc it found the number one thing richer students had going for them was the ability to take unpaid/low paid internships in their field. Students with loans or bills had to take what they could get, which sometimes included things in their field but often did not. That extra year or two of being supported by family and getting one's foot in the door really made the most difference, according to the study.

 

That's why they changed the rule and banned those internships unless they could show they were legitimate training programs.  They were unfair to the poor.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't know a single non-handicapped adult who worked in fast food for more than six months and didn't get selected for either a management training program or for an assistant manager job. 

 

 

I worked at McD's when in school.  For four years.  I was promoted to a management position and in a training program.  I got a 25 cent raise. 

 

I mean hey...great...I made 25 cents more than minimum wage, but let's get real here.

 

Granted that was not for store manager.  I was a shift manager.  But there was only one store manager per store.  So odds weren't good anyway. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

So glad I live in a country with real freedom

 

LMAO...yeah really. 

 

We can own all the guns we want, but let's not go getting all cocky and think we can own clotheslines.  That's just crazy talk.

[unsinkable]

And ALL of those suggestions presume poor people without families.

 

The original point of this thread was not discussing poor 18 year old high school graduates.

 

We are talking all households with income. 90% of them make less than 100k and most of them make closer to 50k.

 

Those suggestions with kids aren't going to get easier.

Is this addressed to me? Because I'm not following. But honestly, it's OK. I don't believe I have anything else to contribute.

[Murphy101]

Martha...my parents were dead. Dead as in no support. No netting.

 

And I'm not telling my story here...no thanks.

Uhhh. okay? I'm not discounting anything you said. I was addressing the issue of feeling brushed off. I have zero doubt you had it very rough. I had zero parental anything too.

 

But how did you manage? Who gave you a ride? Or a million other things? Even if it was living in a homeless shelter, many can't live in those.

 

My point wasn't to discount your experience.

 

My point was many things that you were able to do to get by then aren't as easy or an option now.

[Murphy101]

Is this addressed to me? Because I'm not following. But honestly, it's OK. I don't believe I have anything else to contribute.

No. I was referring to Katy suggestions. And some of the misc suggestion to do what we did or our parents did. It's not the same as it was then in many ways.

[QueenCat]

But even if you are at the grandparents' for a week, even three times a year, it means you have a job where either you have enough money to cover the lost wages for those days OR you have a job where you can telecommute while on vacation for a week OR you have a job that has generous vacation time. Or some combination of those. Working class people don't have several weeks of time off from their job available to them, even if their only expense for the vacation is gas to get the Grandma's. I'd say multiple vacations a year, of any type, put you in some sort of upper tier.

 

I do see  your point but I know many people where only the wife and kids go to visit family, while dh stays back to work. I don't personally consider that a vacation but some do. I enjoy visiting family but I work just as much there, so it's not a vacation. Mostly because I'm helping out by cleaning my parents place and cooking, etc (they are elderly).

[Katy]

Can you provide a link to internships that pay in excess of 20K for a summer?  I'd really like to see what some of these are and pass on suggestions.

 

My guys have had paid summer work, but it's generally enough to live on (since they don't live at home).  Around home it's just basic jobs for those without degrees.

 

For those I knew it involved university recruiting programs, not online job listings.  I know the two most recent people I know of who got internships like that were for HUGE corporations though- like one was an electrical engineering major and he got a summer internship with GE.  I know it invovled a sign on/relocation bonus, summer housing, and a rental car.

 

Another I think was in either accounting or finance and got a job at an oil company (maybe Conoco Phillips or Phillips 66, I can't remember which), I think in Houston.

 

Another was a chemical engineering major and got an internship at a drug company.  I think it was Pfiezer, but I'm not certain.   I suppose you could make a list of fortune-500 companies and spend some time on their job boards and see if their internships are listed there, if you're not at a school that has exetensive on campus recruiting for those types of things.  Perhaps one of the professors on the board could chime in too?  They are competitive, GPA does make a difference.

[kroe1]

Don't take this the wrong way, but... are you insane?

 

You do realize there are people who will die without medical care, right? And people who live in northern climates and would literally freeze to death without electricity?

 

Health care and heat aren't luxuries that people can give up if they want to get ahead.

 

Ffs.

[idnib]

. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/25/silicon-valley-interns-make-a-service-worker-s-yearly-salary-in-three-months.html

 

I'm just answering the question, I'm not saying it's like this everywhere. I feel that need to say that in this thread.  :laugh:

 

Well silicon valley is a different planet.  LOL

[MSNative]

Martha...my parents were dead. Dead as in no support. No netting.

 

And I'm not telling my story here...no thanks.

I hope you do share your story but I understand why you wouldn't want to.

[creekland]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/25/silicon-valley-interns-make-a-service-worker-s-yearly-salary-in-three-months.html

 

I'm just answering the question, I'm not saying it's like this everywhere. I feel that need to say that in this thread.  :laugh:

 

Thanks - unfortunately my guy is not in software engineering nor do any of mine have talent (or desire) in that area. 

 

And since middle son is going through his college to find summer employment in his field, I guess what he's finding is a bit more normal for what he's doing.

 

Such is life I suppose.  He likes it.  I wouldn't want any of mine in fields they didn't like just for $$.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

NM, not going to bother.

[QueenCat]

Paid internships do exist. That said there are a lot more unpaid and low pay internships than ones that pay "25-45k for the summer". The only people I know who got anywhere close to $20k for a summer internship were at elite schools. Not western state u. A 20 hour a week internship paying $20 an hour comes to just over $20k for a full 12 month year. Most internships I see are more like $0-12/hr though. I didn't do internships in college (which would have advanced my career choices) because i needed way more money than they were offering (as I was the main provider for myself and my high school aged brother).

 

There are lots of ways to hack through school but the options are decidedly more limited now than they were even 10 years ago.

 

None of the internships older ds had were paid. In fact, he had to pay to do two of the three. Granted, he got college credit for them.

[Laura Corin]

Wouldn't a drying rack take up at least as much space as a dryer?

 

We had one of these when Calvin was born - it was in the bathroom, so took up no floor space.

 

The same flat now has a tumble dryer that just sits in a hallway - there's nowhere to hide it.

[Melissa in Australia]

NM, not going to bother.

Tibbie I was making a joke, sorry if I upset you

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Tibbie I was making a joke, sorry if I upset you

 

No, I apologize, I realized I reacted not quite rationally so I deleted. Swear to God it feels like a Monday at my house, but nope, it's Tuesday. LOL No worries.

[Joanne]

Yes, but you can:

• join the military and get a GI Bill (this is what my parents did, both had messed up home lives and couldn't focus on school as teens, and it was during Vietnam, but even in the military you can choose an area where you are unlikely to be on the front lines) <OR>
• work your rear end off in high school with the sole goal of getting great test scores so you can be a national merit scholar - many universities will waive tuition and room and board for you and will let you work for spending money.
• move to a place with cheaper public universities, work the best jobs you can get until you've been there a year and get in-state tuition, then take a crapload of student loans <OR>
• go to a community college or trade school and take a one year computer networking course to get a 60k job and use that salary to work your way through a computer science or MIS degree (or the same thing in other areas such as CNA-->nursing-->nurse management or nurse practicioner;  or electronic tech--> electrical engineering; or industrial maitenance vocational course--> industrial or manufacturing engineering-->MBA & factory management, etc.)  <OR>
• go to a library with internet access and use Khan and Udacity and Coursera and learn entry level programming, build a portfolio, and take a $60-80k programming job and get a computer science or MIS degree and work your way through comp sci or MIS with that income.  With minimal experience you can probably get a temp job for $40k.
• Get a $10/hour job at a large corporation that has education benefits so you can get a degree on their dime.
• Take loans for the first couple of years in a very challenging area (such as electrical engineering), and then get paid internships in the summer that will pay $25-45k for a summer of work and fund school for the rest of the year.  Paid internship will lead to a solid job offer when you graduate.
• One friend of mine majored in chemical engineering and was offered in excess of $100k as a starting salary as a petroleum engineer.  She has to live in Oklahoma for that job, and now she has to go back to night school and get a graduate degree to be promoted.  She's okay with that.

I'm not saying it will be easy, if it was, more people would do it.   Most of these areas take immense attention to detail, a lot of memorization, and math skills that you cannot fake your way through with common sense the way you can in say, social sciences. My parents divorced before they finished their degrees and my mom had three jobs, kids, a house, and went to college full time.  I still have no idea how she did it.  It is possible though.

 

ETA:  yes, health issues are important, and health is a huge qualifier.  A couple years ago I read an article that said it was expected in the future that medical students might be required to take long term disability insurance to get loans, because a fair number take out in excess of $200k of loans and then those who are disabled and cannot work cannot pay their loans.

 

On bullet # 1 - not everyone is suited for the military. The military wouldn't accept my dd, for example.

On bullet # 2 - Merit scholar is not achievable my many, even with excellent test prep and scores.

On bullet # 3 - includes possibly needing transportation (and the costs associated), living expenses on a low level wage, and a bunch of known budget challenges prohibiting attending school.

On bullet # 4 - This is a narrow range of work roles, and people's potential skill set and temperments may not be a match for the short list you offer.

On bullet # 5 - Computer science is only a match for a small % of going-to-be workers.

On bullet # 6 - $10 is not a living wage for most people. That requires in most places living with family or roommates and STILL not having "enough."

On bullet # 7 - Again, I respect your emphasis on engineering (and one of my 3 has that aspiration) but engineering is not a match for the majority of persons.

On bullet # 8 -  Again, engineering.

 

I write this as a woman who transcended the low income dynamic. I had significant barriers during that time, have worked no less than 2 jobs at a time, including when I was in school. It it weren't for the fact that I was qualified to work IN a school, I never would have seen my kids for 5+ years.

 

I still don't believe the myth that hard work = success in the US.

[Guest]

Oh and to boot, the local schools here require not only a physical exam upon entering but also a vision exam and a dental exam. Your child cannot enter school without that. And only the very poor get assistance with that. This is just one of many examples of things one cannot opt to not do because they want to spend less money.

I thought the ACA mandated a free doctor, dental and vision checkup each year for children??

 

My mind is still boggled that some people think every kids should get a chance to go to Disney. Huh??

[kroe1]

Yes, I have been called insane many times. But, I have crawled out of poverty to a life in the top 1%, although admittedly I go back and forth in income multiple times in my lifetime. My poverty years were spent as a teenage single mom without help from family or the government.

 

I am much more interested in how people live on less than what they make, however, than what they make. I have friends who make almost zero who live just as fulfilling a life as my friends who make a ton of money.

 

I have several friends now who are homesteaders. They have no electricity and no plumbing. My friends live in Florida and Tennessee, so winter freezing is not as much as an issue as the homesteaders in Alaska which I have read about. Anything they need is crafted or mostly bartered. When they need cash, they sell something they have made or been given. I am quite taken with the lifestyle as it appears much less stressful than my own.

 

The friends I have who make a ton of money are now more interested in creating free time than money, for the most part it seems.

 

No, one does not NEED medical care. People were surviving long before there were doctors and nurses and CT scans. True, one may not live as long, or may live longer whatever the case may be. And it depends on if one's definition of medical care includes life at all costs vs. just life until death whenever that may occur. I have had the pleasure of meeting quite a few elders over the years who have never seen a doctor. They had their babies at home, set their own broken bones, and treated ailments with home remedies. Yes, they might have died of a heart attack at age 40 or cancer at age 35. But, they didn't. So they never needed a doctor. Their children did not have fancy diagnoses like autism spectrum or mitochondrial diseases. But, they did the best they could with what they had. So be it. Is it the best way to live? Not for me. But it is a possibility for those who live extremely frugally.

 

So what sets apart the 1%ers and homesteaders who are not financially handicapped vs. those who live tied to their finances? Sounds like someone needs to start another post because I am feeling a little insane.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I thought the ACA mandated a free doctor, dental and vision checkup each year for children??

 

My mind is still boggled that some people think every kids should get a chance to go to Disney. Huh??

 

I must be brain farting, but what is ACA?

Oh and then my thought is, so what if the dentist finds something?  Who pays for that?   KWIM?  Even if I can get assistance paying for the exams I have to deal with what comes of that.  Some dentists are gold diggers. 

[creekland]

On bullet # 1 - not everyone is suited for the military. The military wouldn't accept my dd, for example.

On bullet # 2 - Merit scholar is not achievable my many, even with excellent test prep and scores.

On bullet # 3 - includes possibly needing transportation (and the costs associated), living expenses on a low level wage, and a bunch of known budget challenges prohibiting attending school.

On bullet # 4 - This is a narrow range of work roles, and people's potential skill set and temperments may not be a match for the short list you offer.

On bullet # 5 - Computer science is only a match for a small % of going-to-be workers.

On bullet # 6 - $10 is not a living wage for most people. That requires in most places living with family or roommates and STILL not having "enough."

On bullet # 7 - Again, I respect your emphasis on engineering (and one of my 3 has that aspiration) but engineering is not a match for the majority of persons.

On bullet # 8 -  Again, engineering.

 

I write this as a woman who transcended the low income dynamic. I had significant barriers during that time, have worked no less than 2 jobs at a time, including when I was in school. It it weren't for the fact that I was qualified to work IN a school, I never would have seen my kids for 5+ years.

 

I still don't believe the myth that hard work = success in the US.

 

:iagree:  I was reading that post and thinking of oodles of students at the high school where I work who simply can't do any of the above.  The military doesn't work.  No matter how hard they try they are never going to be a National Merit anything.  No matter how hard they try engineering and or computer programming just isn't going to work.  Moving into another state does not automatically get you into their colleges - esp if they think you moved just for the in state college deal - and moving costs $$, etc.

 

Any of these might work for some, but none will work for any majority.  The whole sum of options is unlikely to work for the majority.

[Tanaqui]

I must be brain farting, but what is ACA?

 

"Obamacare"

 

[creekland]

No, one does not NEED medical care. People were surviving long before there were doctors and nurses and CT scans. True, one may not live as long, or may live longer whatever the case may be. And it depends on if one's definition of medical care includes life at all costs vs. just life until death whenever that may occur. I have had the pleasure of meeting quite a few elders over the years who have never seen a doctor. They had their babies at home, set their own broken bones, and treated ailments with home remedies. Yes, they might have died of a heart attack at age 40 or cancer at age 35. But, they didn't. So they never needed a doctor. Their children did not have fancy diagnoses like autism spectrum or mitochondrial diseases. But, they did the best they could with what they had. 

 

SOME go through life and do not need medical care and will live into their elder years.  Many others do not.

 

I didn't exactly ask for my brain tumor, nor do I feel I could fix it by myself.  I don't particularly like living with the side effects of treatment, but if I understand the powers that be correctly, the other option was to let it grow, cut into a branch of my carotid artery (which the tumor surrounds) and die early.

 

While I'd have loved to "fix it" myself and did toy with the idea of que sera, sera it was nice to have a medical option WITHOUT breaking the bank or having to declare bankruptcy.

 

And there's no way I'd want to set a broken bone by myself or try to fix messed up blood vessels in the event of an accident of any sort.

 

These things are all luck of the draw for the most part.  Some could choose death if that's their preference, but it ought to be a choice - not a mandate due to income.

[idnib]

. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes, I have been called insane many times. But, I have crawled out of poverty to a life in the top 1%, although admittedly I go back and forth in income multiple times in my lifetime. My poverty years were spent as a teenage single mom without help from family or the government.

 

I am much more interested in how people live on less than what they make, however, than what they make. I have friends who make almost zero who live just as fulfilling a life as my friends who make a ton of money.

 

I have several friends now who are homesteaders. They have no electricity and no plumbing. My friends live in Florida and Tennessee, so winter freezing is not as much as an issue as the homesteaders in Alaska which I have read about. Anything they need is crafted or mostly bartered. When they need cash, they sell something they have made or been given. I am quite taken with the lifestyle as it appears much less stressful than my own.

 

The friends I have who make a ton of money are now more interested in creating free time than money, for the most part it seems.

 

No, one does not NEED medical care. People were surviving long before there were doctors and nurses and CT scans. True, one may not live as long, or may live longer whatever the case may be. And it depends on if one's definition of medical care includes life at all costs vs. just life until death whenever that may occur. I have had the pleasure of meeting quite a few elders over the years who have never seen a doctor. They had their babies at home, set their own broken bones, and treated ailments with home remedies. Yes, they might have died of a heart attack at age 40 or cancer at age 35. But, they didn't. So they never needed a doctor. Their children did not have fancy diagnoses like autism spectrum or mitochondrial diseases. But, they did the best they could with what they had. So be it. Is it the best way to live? Not for me. But it is a possibility for those who live extremely frugally.

 

So what sets apart the 1%ers and homesteaders who are not financially handicapped vs. those who live tied to their finances? Sounds like someone needs to start another post because I am feeling a little insane.

 

I agree that people don't necessarily "NEED" a lot of things, but that does not fly when it comes to children.  People start accusing one of stuff.

 

And that's fine that people choose these things.  You say you are impressed with the homesteading thing, etc.  I have no desire to live like that.  It's not even an issue of money or lack of certain luxuries.  I just could not stand the thought of living alone in the middle of nowhere.  I'm already a loner, but at least there are people around.  I need that. 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't drink so I'm not sure, but I think there's cheap whiskey to be had. And neighbors may lend a pair of pliers if you lack them. 

 

hah...eek

 

Although baby teeth are easier to deal with.

[Lisbeth]

The general attitude around in Aus is that people who use a clothes dryer when it isn't raining are incredibly lazy and are majorly destroying the planet. just expressing views that are in other countries, not saying you are lazy.

 

 

 

I don't have a clothes dryer. if it is raining the washing is hung under the veranda or on drying racks in front of the wood heater.

 

 

 

I know my MIL in Canada hangs her wash in the basement year round.

Oh, I totally admit to loving shortcuts for mundane tasks. I also have an appliance addiction.

 

Edited because I do really know grammar rules.

[Audrey]

There are so many who can take a below average income and live a very happy, comfortable life as well as so many who can be strapped with debt and living paycheck to paycheck with a top 1% income. I am the former while DH is the latter. Knowing that, I made sure we were financially separated before and after marriage. It did not help as he still managed to get me in debt without my knowledge.

 

But, there is almost always a way to live cheaper than one does if one is willing to go to extremes in order to build a nest egg. One can give up the 3 room apartment for a dilapidated trailer, for example. One can give up New York for a trailer park in rural Tennessee. One can give up electricity, phone service, medical care, and many other needs if one REALLY wants to do anything and everything to get out of financial entrapment. It is just that most of us have no desire to do that, and, therefore, balance financial entrapment with what we want our lifestyles to include. To justify our financial entrapment we console ourselves with excuses like I could never leave my family, my job requires my internet service, and other blah, blah, blah excuses. In reality, these excuses are just the benefits of staying in financial entrapment.

 

So when I read articles defining and classifying income, I do not give it much thought. Show me instead articles about what kind of families live below their means and how they do it. Now you're talking.

 

This post displays a barely functional ignorance of poverty and of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.  

[Luckymama]

Can you provide a link to internships that pay in excess of 20K for a summer? I'd really like to see what some of these are and pass on suggestions.

 

My guys have had paid summer work, but it's generally enough to live on (since they don't live at home). Around home it's just basic jobs for those without degrees.

Like Katy answered, most of these high paying internships are through on-campus recruiting through either a job fair or postings from the department. Some are advertised on the university website under the student section.

 

Ds's department sends students to the same internships every year. These are large and small tech firms (very much household names) and banks, to name some.

 

Other departments have similar relationships with companies, which are advertised beginning in the fall for the following summer.