ktgrok Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Oh, once I was nursing my oldest, at a family party. I was SO tired. My grandfather was there, and I did NOT want him holding hte baby, so was running interference on that. (creepy guy, reeked of smoke, etc). At various times various family members were holding the baby so I could rest. Well, I was sitting on the couch and realized I couldn't see who was holding the baby, and started freaking out that my grandfather might have him. So I urgently cried, "where's the baby? Who has the baby?" Everyone just stared...as I was NURSING the baby as I said this. Um, yeah...I wasn't negligent, I was exhausted. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm sorry. I missed it somehow and thought the thread focused on the Atlanta area man. I'm sorry about that. No worries. Your post did point out that we can't make blanket statements about these situations and showed differences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I hope you show more compassion in your job than you have here. Truly. :iagree: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I wonder if he hurt the baby and then used the hot car to cover it up, based on some of the quotes posted. However, I am very wary of believing any news source about anything.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmtzc2009 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 No, not young, just worked in Injury Prevention for too long, I guess. Preventable injury is the leading killer of children. I have full and complete compassion for the children who are at risk because too many parents are negligent in preventable injuries and death. Far too many. It's a tragedy. I see people every single day misusing car seats, not using bicycle helmets, etc. I hear about children drowning in pools and overheating in cars. Every single summer. It's so sad. Funny, when it was suggested you were young, I had a feeling that wasn't the reason for your harshness. I echo what many others have said. For your childrens sake I pray that your arrogance protects you from the pain these families feel. I remember being in my early 20's when I first saw a news report on a child dying from being left in the car. Even at that young age I could only imagine the heartbreak & torture those parents must live with daily. Oddly, my much older MIL had also seen that report & she was outraged that parents could do such a thing. A couple years later my MIL was dealing with her fathers failing health. Friday evening she had gone to a rehearsal dinner for her best friends daughters wedding. MIL woke up Saturday & just went about her day as normal. Completely forgot about the wedding. No, I'm not comparing missing an event to a child's life. But surely everyone has forgot something at some point that would at least allow you to see how it is possible & can happen to anyone. Even you Wintermom..... I hope IRL you have far more compassion than you've shown in comments on this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Then again, if I were distraught and in shock like that, my answers probably wouldn't make sense either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Then again, if I were distraught and in shock like that, my answers probably wouldn't make sense either. Very true. The investigators should be accustomed to that though. This is a large suburb of Atlanta, and this is not their first horrific crime scene. The department's got a reputation for being well-run. Some other counties I would be more suspicious of them totally bumbling up things or the DA politically overreaching on charges to make headlines. It's still possible of course. And innocent until proven guilty and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 No, not young, just worked in Injury Prevention for too long, I guess. Preventable injury is the leading killer of children. then you've been in the field too long because you've lost touch with humanity. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Funny, when it was suggested you were young, I had a feeling that wasn't the reason for your harshness. I echo what many others have said. For your childrens sake I pray that your arrogance protects you from the pain these families feel. I remember being in my early 20's when I first saw a news report on a child dying from being left in the car. Even at that young age I could only imagine the heartbreak & torture those parents must live with daily. Oddly, my much older MIL had also seen that report & she was outraged that parents could do such a thing. A couple years later my MIL was dealing with her fathers failing health. Friday evening she had gone to a rehearsal dinner for her best friends daughters wedding. MIL woke up Saturday & just went about her day as normal. Completely forgot about the wedding. No, I'm not comparing missing an event to a child's life. But surely everyone has forgot something at some point that would at least allow you to see how it is possible & can happen to anyone. Even you Wintermom..... I hope IRL you have far more compassion than you've shown in comments on this thread. I'm sorry I was wrong - I hoped her arrogance was because of age. she'd be more likely to learn some compassion and humility - her subsequent posts indicate that isn't likely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pehp Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Mis-remembering. I haven't read all the responses, but I do want to weigh in on this. My best friend's very good friend did this. My best friend said "if Jodie could do this, ANYONE could" because she is such a responsible, caring human being. Not a flake, not negligent. Very sobering to realize we are all so very human. A few years after it happened, she (the mother, Jodie) wrote an essay about it. She mis-remembered. I encourage everyone to read her words on how this occurred. http://www.kidsandcars.org/jenna-edwards.html It is so, so tragic. One thing I always do is put my purse in the backseat with my child. NEVER in the front seat. Now that my children are older it's not such an issue, but with babies/toddlers/newborns who can fall asleep in the car--and with a mother w/ sleep deprivation, etc.--this makes so much sense. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Mis-remembering. I haven't read all the responses, but I do want to weigh in on this. My best friend's very good friend did this. My best friend said "if Jodie could do this, ANYONE could" because she is such a responsible, caring human being. Not a flake, not negligent. Very sobering to realize we are all so very human. A few years after it happened, she (the mother, Jodie) wrote an essay about it. She mis-remembered. I encourage everyone to read her words on how this occurred. http://www.kidsandcars.org/jenna-edwards.html It is so, so tragic. One thing I always do is put my purse in the backseat with my child. NEVER in the front seat. Now that my children are older it's not such an issue, but with babies/toddlers/newborns who can fall asleep in the car--and with a mother w/ sleep deprivation, etc.--this makes so much sense. That essay is really powerful. There have been times when I was SURE I had done xyz and had a really hard time convincing myself that I could misremember to that extent. But it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I think the people admitting it had happened to them prove that it can happen to anyone. There have been many examples and who knows how many that won't admit it on a public forum. I admitted one but there was one other time and it was only a matter of seconds. My husband also left a child in the car and he is a police officer, and of the most cautious people I know.Thankfully those times didn't end in tragedy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 That essay is really powerful. There have been times when I was SURE I had done xyz and had a really hard time convincing myself that I could misremember to that extent. But it happens. The brain is a very weird thing. I once had a dream that was so real to me that I woke up believing it had totally happened. It was not a happy dream, in fact in it a close friend had died. I was trying to figure out how to support the family when I saw this person. It was extremely disconcerting, to say the very least. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underthebridge Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Thank you to everyone who has shared your own stories- DH can't stand reading stories like this and thinks I'm morbid for reading about stuff like this, but I hope that these stories will shake my complacency so that they WON'T happen to me. I have read that washington post article every year since it was published to remind myself to be alert. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Illogical response. Leaving a child under your care in a dangerous situation through neglect, or forgetting, is not the same thing as someone else hitting your car. Keeping children in the house with someone who physically abuses you or the children should be dealt with by child protective services. When a child is in your care, you are responsible for it's well being to the best of your knowledge and ability. Leaving a infant in a car unattended is neglect and should be a punishable offense. If you paid someone to watch your child, wouldn't you expect that person to stay with your child? Sadly, I think if this happened to a caregiver she would definitely go to jail. People can muster sympathy for the parents, but not if it happens to a sitter or daycare provider even if the circumstances are exactly the same otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I read an article when this happened last year that people should put their cell phones in their baby's car seat because the author said that even those who forget their babies will probably not forget their cellphones because they are so connected to it. I tend to agree - with people checking email, FB and twitter all day long, for personal and work reasons, they might even go back to the car immediately to look for the forgotten cellphone in the baby's car seat and maybe find the baby safe. This isn't always true. Its the amount of time my husband forgets his cellphone in the car -- and doens't even realize he's forgotten it -- that made me fear him forgetting a kid and set up a backwards way to make sure, so far as I could, that it did not happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Distracted, tired, preoccupied with other kids/job problems, rushed and frazzled. It's a deadly combination sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yeah, I think this paragraph might give me nightmares. "Driving to the daycare to pick up the kid who's dead in your backseat." Unfathomable, and frighteningly, very imaginable. I always have a million worries about my kids, but my worries don't make them safer. Asking, at least once, "do you have your seatbelt on?" even though I checked before we left, I worry that I forgot. "Several people -- including Mary Parks of Blacksburg -- have driven from their workplace to the day-care center to pick up the child they’d thought they’d dropped off, never noticing the corpse in the back seat." - from the Weingarter article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I didn't do that, but almost. Right before a playdate at my house I went to pick up a to-go order at Jason's Deli. They had mess-up on top of mess-up and then they threw in attitude. When I got home I was spitting tacks. I parked in the garage, grabbed the food and went inside. DH, my friend and her son were there. I told them the food story and why I was so mad. She said, "Ummm, where is (DD's name)?". I was stricken. DD was sleeping in the car. I would have realized she was gone shortly after I was done with my rant. But, that 5 minutes I had totally forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygal Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think putting your phone in the car seat isn't good - what if the babysitter is calling wondering why you are late dropping off the baby and you forgot the phone, too. There should be a light on the dash with a noise reminding you - like an alarm system. I have nightmares about these things. This and drownings. This is also why I don't let others drive my kids anywhere or take them swimming without me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomtoCandJ Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I can see how it can happen, but I'm so used to having the girls with me that I've been known to try to get them out and then realize that they are home with daddy (this happened yesterday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I thought I was the only one to frantically ask where my (at the moment nursing) baby was. I felt so silly when it was pointed out I me that I was not only holding him but nursing him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I have forgotten my cell phone in my car many times, often not realizing it for hours or even until the next day. I think that a combination of checks might be best. Like leave an item you need back there (for me it would be my computer), AND have the child's caregiver (at the destination where you were supposed to leave him) always call if the kid is 15 minutes late. I like the idea someone gave of keeping a special big, colorful bracelet in the kid's car seat. You put it on before you fasten the kid's seat belt, and you don't take it off again until the kid is out of the car - then you put the bracelet back into the car seat. If you go about your business with the bracelet on, you will probably notice pretty soon and then go check to see if you goofed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Mis-remembering. I haven't read all the responses, but I do want to weigh in on this. My best friend's very good friend did this. My best friend said "if Jodie could do this, ANYONE could" because she is such a responsible, caring human being. Not a flake, not negligent. Very sobering to realize we are all so very human. A few years after it happened, she (the mother, Jodie) wrote an essay about it. She mis-remembered. I encourage everyone to read her words on how this occurred. http://www.kidsandcars.org/jenna-edwards.html It is so, so tragic. One thing I always do is put my purse in the backseat with my child. NEVER in the front seat. Now that my children are older it's not such an issue, but with babies/toddlers/newborns who can fall asleep in the car--and with a mother w/ sleep deprivation, etc.--this makes so much sense. That essay was heartbreaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I thought I was the only one to frantically ask where my (at the moment nursing) baby was. I felt so silly when it was pointed out I me that I was not only holding him but nursing him. This is exactly the problem at hand--our brain just tunes things out. We really are only actively aware of a fraction of what is going on around us and even things we are doing, particularly when habit takes over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joules Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I like the idea someone gave of keeping a special big, colorful bracelet in the kid's car seat. You put it on before you fasten the kid's seat belt, and you don't take it off again until the kid is out of the car - then you put the bracelet back into the car seat. If you go about your business with the bracelet on, you will probably notice pretty soon and then go check to see if you goofed. This is one of the best suggestions that I seen from all of the links. Maybe something with the little jingle bells that people put on doorknobs. Mine is 16, but I will keep that in mind if I have Grandma days in my future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 This was just updated a couple hours ago: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/us/toddler-car-death-probe/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 "Much has changed about the circumstances leading up to the death of this 22-month-old since it was first reported," Cobb County Police Sgt. Dana Pierce told CNN. He would not elaborate, citing an ongoing investigation, but his words made it clear this was not just another case of a young life left and lost to heat exposure in a hot car. "I've been in law enforcement for 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather," said Pierce. Initially, Justin Ross Harris, 33, told Cobb County police that he accidentally left his toddler son in his SUV on Wednesday. According to police, Harris told them he had forgotten to drop the child off at a daycare center, before going to work. Harris initially told police he realized that he'd left the boy strapped in his car seat as he drove home Wednesday afternoon. Investigators say patrol officers were in the area of the Akers Mill Square shopping center in the suburban Atlanta county when dispatchers received the calls from witnesses around 4:20 p.m. "He kept saying, 'What have I done? What have I done?'" Dale Hamilton told CNN affiliate WSB-TV. "Within moments of the first responders getting to the scene and doing their job and questions began to be asked about the moments that led up to their arrival at the scene, some of those answers were not making sense to the first responders," Pierce of Cobb County Police said. Terrible news that this death may have been deliberate or leaving him in the car was an accident. It's unfathomable to use your child's body to cover up a crime. I do think anytime this happens it is looked at very very closely. Which is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 My personal experience: We were on vacation in the US with family, and my DH and I decided to go on a "date" to the bookstore. But our 18 month old was still pretty clingy and didn't want to stay home with the grandparents to babysit, so we left older brother with the grandparents, and just took the 18 month old. When older brother is in the car, it is impossible to "forget", because he talked non-stop. But the 18 month old just sat quietly, and when we got to the bookstore I had totally forgotten she was there- in my mind, I was out without the kids! Leaving the car, I shut my door and walked right past her window... and did a double take. Had I walked out from the front of the car rather than gone backwards past her window, I would have totally forgotten she was in there. It was a hot day. That incident scared me so bad that I could not stop shaking for an hour. My DH says he remembered she was in there and had no idea why I was so upset because of course HE would have remembered and gotten her out, but just the fact that I could forget like that... scared the hell out of me. Sometimes, horrible, horrible accidents happen. And by grace or by chance or by my husband's not being dumb, it didn't happen to our kid. It still makes me go cold just to think of it. They say these incidents are most frequent when the "routine" is off- the other parent dropping off the kid, etc. For us, it was definitely the case. Not having both kids in the car, it was easy to forget the quiet one was in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 When my kids were little, it was so rare for me to go out without them, that when I did, I had to remind myself they were not there. So I can see how the mind plays tricks on people out of their routine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMom Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I almost did it today. My husband is usually home on Sundays so I don't take the kids anywhere on my way to work today. He happens not to be home today and my four year old spent the night at his grandma's. I got almost to work before I realized I had forgotten to drop my two year old off. I have a habit of putting my stuff in the backseat so I would have seen her regardless when I got to work and pulled my purse out of the backseat. But I cannot stand in judgement of anyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It used to be that babies were in the front seat in the car seat. And they used to only rear face for a few months. And there were no cell phones, so we visited with our little ones while driving now. Now...their seats are in the back from day one. We talk on the cell phone while driving, so we are not thinking about our child or talking to our child. We are very distracted drivers now. So, people don't see their babies anymore in the car seats. These seats are HUGE now. They are made to be rear facing to 35 pounds or more. You cannot see even a thread of your child from the front. And it is very disconnected. You cannot talk or interact with your child while driving. And now, with cell phones, so many are on the phones instead, distracted. So, they get involved in the conversation on the phone. Or maybe just with whatever else. And they don't see or hear the child, and the child is in the way back, rear facing, unseeable. Then they forget. Another thing is, some kids are left on purpose. And as long as the child does not get hurt, the police and CPS don't care. I just found a newborn baby and a preschooler in a car alone in the Target parking lot. I called the police. They had been there for some time. When the mom came out, the police just told her not to do it, but then told me there was no law against it!! (I thought there was, but they insist there is not). I had taken pictures of the incident so I called CPS. CPS just sent me a letter and told me that they closed the case and decided not to take any action against the mother. I wonder how many of these cases of children left in the car are actually on purpose. Or if the family has done it on purpose in the past so they forgot on a day where it was too hot. In the case where I called CPS, that woman was angry at the police and yelling at them and telling them that they had no business bothering her. And recently, I read an article from some self righteous woman admitting to purposefully leaving her child in a car, 4 yr old, and her only regrets were getting caught. She tries to claim her child was harmed by those who caught her rather than her own actions. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/ This is an example of a bad mother. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Another thing is, some kids are left on purpose. And as long as the child does not get hurt, the police and CPS don't care. I just found a newborn baby and a preschooler in a car alone in the Target parking lot. I called the police. They had been there for some time. When the mom came out, the police just told her not to do it, but then told me there was no law against it!! (I thought there was, but they insist there is not). I had taken pictures of the incident so I called CPS. CPS just sent me a letter and told me that they closed the case and decided not to take any action against the mother. I wonder how many of these cases of children left in the car are actually on purpose. Or if the family has done it on purpose in the past so they forgot on a day where it was too hot. In the case where I called CPS, that woman was angry at the police and yelling at them and telling them that they had no business bothering her. And recently, I read an article from some self righteous woman admitting to purposefully leaving her child in a car, 4 yr old, and her only regrets were getting caught. She tries to claim her child was harmed by those who caught her rather than her own actions. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/ This is an example of a bad mother. It is a lot less dangerous to leave kids on purpose than to forget them, because you know you need to get back to them quickly. That's why the vast majority of deaths occur when the parents did not know the child was in the car. Read all of the hundreds of tragic stories about kids dying of heatstroke in cars. Not one of them was left in there for just a few minutes. I could never find one that was left less than half an hour. Most of them were forgotten or missing for a number of hours, sometimes days. You won't save kids from drowning by telling their parents not to let them drink water. And you won't save kids from baking to death in cars by telling their parents not to ever let them sit alone in a car for 5-10 minutes. If a child is not harmed by an intentional parental choice, maybe, just maybe, the choice was not wrong. Also, keep in mind that a lot of children are hurt and killed while walking in parking lots. Sometimes parents decide to keep kids in the car for a few minutes *for their safety.* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 When the mom came out, the police just told her not to do it, but then told me there was no law against it!! (I thought there was, but they insist there is not). It may depend upon state. In WA - there is a law against leaving kids in the car. a children's store I used to frequent had a sign posting that law, including the rcw# in reference. the store owners didn't want kids being left in the car - and the parents patronizing their store would leave them. but yeah - if they'd ticket parents who *did* leave their kids in the car, parents would think twice about doing it deliberately. seattle tickets jaywalkers, and people think twice about jaywalking. I left my tiny baby with mil in the car while I ran into a store. when I came back, mil was gone, the car was locked - and guess who was inside? she also thought seat belts were absurd and cut them out of her car and grumbled becasue I wouldn't let her hold the baby while we were driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 A couple people have mentioned that babies used to ride in the front seat and people knew they were there so they didn't get forgotten in the car. I was born in 1970. I am the daughter of a pediatric ER nurse. I had a car seat from birth until 3, when I was moved into a booster seat. I never rode in the front seat until I was 12. So I know I had an unusual upbringing that way. I have never ridden in a car without a seatbelt, ever. Here is my question...did more babies die in car accidents from being in the front seat than are dying from being left in a hot car? Which is statistically more dangerous? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/ This is an example of a bad mother. Really? You would condemn someone as a bad mother for leaving a 4 year old alone in a car for 5 minutes once? I know I certainly won't...glass houses and stones and all that. Wendy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I have never left a child in a car, but I was left in one when I was a newborn. My mom had three boys already (ages 7, 6, and 4), and she had her hands full. I came along in June and about a week after my birth my mom took all of us over to her friends house so her friend could see me. My mom and the boys went to this friends house all the time, it was part of their routine. Anyway she pulled up to the house and she and the boys got out of the car, went in, and started visiting. A few minutes later the friend said to my mom. "What about the baby? Did you not bring her?" My mom ran out of the house and found me asleep in the back of the station wagon (not in a car seat). She was horrified that she had forgotten me! Today the story it is part of our family lore. When someone tells the story we all laugh at my mom and how she had forgotten me, but at the time I know it scared her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Really? You would condemn someone as a bad mother for leaving a 4 year old alone in a car for 5 minutes once? I know I certainly won't...glass houses and stones and all that. Wendy It does not take 5 minutes to go in to a store, find what she needs, and check out and come back out. Plus, it is not ok to leave your small child in a car, or anywhere else in public alone. So yes, I would call her a bad mother. And she is just like those people who claim it was "just for a second." It is never for a second. And she did not leave her child for just 5 minutes. And even if it were just for 5 minutes, still not ok. And the part that really makes her a bad mother, is that after all the educating authorities have tried to do with her to teach her how dangerous her behavior was, she prefers to sit back and encourage her child to be upset, all in her agenda to paint everyone else as the bad people, and her as the one who is fine and right. And her excuses...she HAD to bring him or he would throw a tantrum. Then she just could not take him in to the store, or he would throw a tantrum and it would just be too much work. whine whine whine. If she cannot handle a tantrum, then she shouldn't have children. What will she do when her child is 13 and throws a tantrum that he just wants to stay out all night, and maybe even drink alcohol. Just give it to him? She is in serious need of some parenting skills. Everybody makes mistakes. But hers is huge and she prefers to let her child feel pain for it rather than mothering-up and own up to her mistake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I was born in 1970. and I remember when seatbelts were an AD-ON. I grew up with a 1967 car that didn't come with seat-belts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Really? You would condemn someone as a bad mother for leaving a 4 year old alone in a car for 5 minutes once? I know I certainly won't...glass houses and stones and all that. Wendy I would not condemn this woman as a bad mother for what she did in this situation. It takes a lot for me to think someone is a bad mother.* But I think she made a bad choice in this particular instance. Four is too young to leave alone for what she had to do. And she had other, safer choices that she could have chosen: leave him at home with her parents or take him in the store or simply not go to the store. Or send her mom to the store. *for example...baby girl here was beaten to death. The "mom" and her boyfriend were the only ones who had cared for the baby. One or both of them had to have done it. There hasn't been an arrest because the police can't figure out who did it and neither will talk to the police. Bad mom doesn't even begin to describe this woman. I pass the house several times a week where the baby died and it makes me so sad and angry. That poor baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We discussed the Salon essay about the mom who left her 4YO in the car here recently, and I think that's a separate topic from the subject of this thread. In the story linked above, the mom who misremembered dropping off her baby said she wouldn't even leave her kids in the car in her own driveway to run inside to grab something she forgot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Found this attached to the Weingarten article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/03/04/DI2009030402198.html A discussion with Weingarten. It can happen to anyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It does not take 5 minutes to go in to a store, find what she needs, and check out and come back out. Plus, it is not ok to leave your small child in a car, or anywhere else in public alone. So yes, I would call her a bad mother. And she is just like those people who claim it was "just for a second." It is never for a second. And she did not leave her child for just 5 minutes. And even if it were just for 5 minutes, still not ok. Well, seeing as someone recorded the whole thing, they must have a pretty good idea of how long she was away from the car. Not long enough for the police to get there. As to it just not being okay at all, according to kidsandcars.org there are only 19 states that currently have specific laws about leaving kids unattended in cars. Legally it doesn't seem to be that black and white. There seems to be some grey area to me too. Can I leave my kids strapped into the car in the drive way while I run to the mail box? Does it matter how long my driveway is? What about if I get out to feed a parking meter? What about if I need to walk down half a block to read the parking regulation sign? Running in to pay for gas? What about if you pay with cash and truly are only in there for two minutes? Grabbing a pizza from a place with full length windows all along the front so you can fully see the vehicle at all times? Are those kids really more unattended then if they were playing 20 feet away from the parent on a playground? I guess I would be hard pressed to call someone a bad parent based on a five or ten or 15 minute isolated incident. It would have to be horrible and heartless - not a bit of benign neglect. That isn't to say there should not be consequences for that choice if it is illegal, but I won't be the one passing judgement. Wendy 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It does not take 5 minutes to go in to a store, find what she needs, and check out and come back out. Plus, it is not ok to leave your small child in a car, or anywhere else in public alone. So yes, I would call her a bad mother. And she is just like those people who claim it was "just for a second." It is never for a second. And she did not leave her child for just 5 minutes. And even if it were just for 5 minutes, still not ok. And the part that really makes her a bad mother, is that after all the educating authorities have tried to do with her to teach her how dangerous her behavior was, she prefers to sit back and encourage her child to be upset, all in her agenda to paint everyone else as the bad people, and her as the one who is fine and right. And her excuses...she HAD to bring him or he would throw a tantrum. Then she just could not take him in to the store, or he would throw a tantrum and it would just be too much work. whine whine whine. If she cannot handle a tantrum, then she shouldn't have children. What will she do when her child is 13 and throws a tantrum that he just wants to stay out all night, and maybe even drink alcohol. Just give it to him? She is in serious need of some parenting skills. Everybody makes mistakes. But hers is huge and she prefers to let her child feel pain for it rather than mothering-up and own up to her mistake. If you are talking about the case I think you're talking about, the store security cameras show that it was 4 minutes from the time she left the car until she returned, having checked out her purchases. There are lots of situations where a person in a hurry can be in and out in 5-ish minutes, and if the unexpected prevents that, the parent knows to leave the line (or whatever) and get back outside. Just because that is not something you ever chose to do does not make it a crime, and it certainly does not justify disrupting the custody of a baby/child over something that never hurt anyone. Perhaps you should research the damage that is done to children who are torn from parents over non-abusive parental imperfections. I knew a pair of preschool twins who would run in front of cars every chance they got if their parents didn't take them out to the car and belt them in separately. Being left in a car a few minutes every day possibly saved their lives. The judging of other moms we don't even know, whose children were not even harmed, is disturbing. Someday it will happen to you and you'll be hoping for some sympathy. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well, seeing as someone recorded the whole thing, they must have a pretty good idea of how long she was away from the car. Not long enough for the police to get there. As to it just not being okay at all, according to kidsandcars.org there are only 19 states that currently have specific laws about leaving kids unattended in cars. Legally it doesn't seem to be that black and white. There seems to be some grey area to me too. Can I leave my kids strapped into the car in the drive way while I run to the mail box? Does it matter how long my driveway is? What about if I get out to feed a parking meter? What about if I need to walk down half a block to read the parking regulation sign? Running in to pay for gas? What about if you pay with cash and truly are only in there for two minutes? Grabbing a pizza from a place with full length windows all along the front so you can fully see the vehicle at all times? Are those kids really more unattended then if they were playing 20 feet away from the parent on a playground? I guess I would be hard pressed to call someone a bad parent based on a five or ten or 15 minute isolated incident. It would have to be horrible and heartless - not a bit of benign neglect. That isn't to say there should not be consequences for that choice if it is illegal, but I won't be the one passing judgement. Wendy I get what you're saying, but . . . . there was a case where the woman left her keys in her car, along with the baby, while waiting at the bus stop for an older child. someone came and literally stole her car while she was standing there - with the car totally within sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It does not take 5 minutes to go in to a store, find what she needs, and check out and come back out. I've done so on multiple occasions at the corner grocery store, and it doesn't take much longer than that even at Walmart if I go in, grab the item, and head for the self-checkout. I find the woman's claim credible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Really? You would condemn someone as a bad mother for leaving a 4 year old alone in a car for 5 minutes once? I know I certainly won't...glass houses and stones and all that. Wendy 4 years old is way too young to leave in a car alone. I'm not going as far to call her a bad mother, but she should not have done that, and I probably wouldn't hesitate to call the police as well. At minimum, I would have waited near the car to make sure the child remained safe, and then talked to her when she returned. That was a bad decision on her part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I get what you're saying, but . . . . there was a case where the woman left her keys in her car, along with the baby, while waiting at the bus stop for an older child. someone came and literally stole her car while she was standing there - with the car totally within sight. I would not recommend leaving keys in the car, baby or no baby. However, the risk of harm is still tiny. (In the unusual cases where cars with kids inside are carjacked, usually the carjacker leaves the car or the kid somewhere as soon as they realize the kid is there - often even turning themselves in to the police to make sure the kid ends up OK. Car thieves are usually not OK with kidnapping!) Perhaps there are extremely rare cases where a person wanting to steal a child happens across a child alone in a car, and manages to get that child. (Though I honestly can't think of any cases of this.) But there are also cases of children being stolen right out of their beds, stolen from school, snatched from their moms' hands, shot through the head while sitting next to their mom in the car, etc. In fact, it is far, far more likely that a child is killed while with the parent in the car. Yet we don't criminalize placing kids in any of these situations. Because we acknowledge that the risk is not high enough to justify a law against it. And that is why, thankfully, most states do not have laws against leaving a kid in the car alone for 5 minutes. Because it is not dangerous compared to a lot of things good parents do, legally, every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think intentionally leaving a child in a car for a few minutes, regardless of our opinion on the practice, is a different matter entirely than the main topic of this discussion, which involves leaving/forgetting a child accidentally. I'm sure children are left intentionally for a few minutes here and there all the time, most often without drastic consequences precisely because the parent was entirely aware of the fact that their child was in the car and therefor returned in a timely manner. Competent, careful parents would not intentionally leave their children alone in a car for hours on end. The scary thing about the forgotten babies is precisely the fact that this happens to caring, competent, safety-oriented parents. It could happen to me. It could happen to you. It does us no good service if we as individuals or as a community choose to frame the accidental deaths as negligence or incompetence; doing so makes us less wary because we all know ourselves to be caring and competent parents. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Given that kids can be removed from their parents' custody and the 911 caller has no control over that, I recommend not ever calling 911 unless you believe there is an actual emergency. If you just saw a parent walk away from a car and don't have good reason to believe they will be gone for over 10 minutes, do not call the police. Watch by the car for up to 10 minutes if you truly worry for the child's well-being. Changes in custody are very damaging to children; sitting in a car for 10 minutes is not. ETA, if you see a parent walk away and think they might have forgotten the child in the car, run or holler after the parent. That's more dangerous as they might not have it in their mind to come back quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Given that kids can be removed from their parents' custody and the 911 caller has no control over that, I recommend not ever calling 911 unless you believe there is an actual emergency. If you just saw a parent walk away from a car and don't have good reason to believe they will be gone for over 10 minutes, do not call the police. Watch by the car for up to 10 minutes if you truly worry for the child's well-being. Changes in custody are very damaging to children; sitting in a car for 10 minutes is not. Really? I wouldn't wait until an emergency occurred before calling. Like you said, I wouldn't leave the situation, but I wouldn't wait either. If I felt a child were being neglected/safety at risk, I wouldn't hesitate. I've called 911 (non-emergency number actually, but it goes to the same dispatchers) on many occasions to report children not being buckled in, or for an infant sitting on the lap of someone in the front seat. They likely won't get caught, but I can't witness something like that without trying to intervene for the child's sake. If a child's life is in danger, I'm not going to worry about whether they are taken away or not; that's something the parents need to think about before making the decision to leave their child alone or not buckle them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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