Jump to content

Menu

How are children being forgotten in hot cars?


GinaPagnato
 Share

Recommended Posts

Wait! You got to ride IN the car? I remember going places in the back of a pick-up truck ALL the time. My kids have no idea.

 

I rode in the back of pick-up.  I loved to ride behind the back seat of my dad' bug.  or on the engine cover/cargo area of the vwbus we had.  I even road in the boat while it was being towed on a trailer . . .

 

 

eta: and I probably even ran with scissors . . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait! You got to ride IN the car? I remember going places in the back of a pick-up truck ALL the time. My kids have no idea.

 

My dad had one of these (only his was yellow):

 

vwthing_zps54a909bd.jpg

 

A Volkswagen Thing. See that ledge up behind the back seat?  That's where we sat!  It was my dad's mayor car, LOL.  I can still see him/us campaigning in it -- with us in the back ledge holding signs.  The 1970s were a different day. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My dad had one of these (only his was yellow):

 

vwthing_zps54a909bd.jpg

 

A Volkswagen Thing. See that ledge up behind the back seat?  That's where we sat!  It was my dad's mayor car, LOL.  I can still see him/us campaigning in it -- with us in the back ledge holding signs.  The 1970s were a different day. 

 

vw had some fun cars.  when I was last looking for a car, I looked at the vws on the local craigslist.  there was a dune buggy . . . . oh, memories . . . .

 

makes me want to go down to the oregon coast . . . .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read this article:  http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/unimaginable-loss-13-children-died-hot-cars-year-n136871

 

I'm sitting here thinking how horrific the pain and guilt must be for these parents whose actions caused their kids' deaths.

 

But...I can't understand how a parent could forget their child in the backseat of the car. Even if they're sleeping, how can a parent not remember that their child is with them? How can you go to work having forgotten that you didn't drop your child off at daycare? I'm not judging them, because Lord knows the searing pain they must feel.

I just can't wrap my mind around the concept that a parent loads their kid up in the car, drives to their destination, and gets out without the child.

 

How frequently does this happen, minus the devastating cases cited in the article?

 

People are human and therefore not infallible. I've been involved in a few car entrapments, from a resuscitation standpoint as an ED physician, and while I can think of one case where the involved adult was negligent (and under the influence of illegal substances when the incident occurred) the others were people who were distracted and made a tragic mistake.  Honestly, each time I have walked out of the ED after one of these I have said a prayer in the car before going home to my own kids.  

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just saying ... maybe this is just another reason to never leave your children in the car alone.  If you do this on a regular basis, I think it would be easier to forget they were in there.  If you never leave your child/ren in the car alone, you are more likely to not forget they are there.  I never left my daughter in the car and at no point did I forget where she was.

 

I never leave my children in the car alone until they have their own license to drive the car but I'm not naive or arrogant enough to believe that this could never happen to me, DH, or one of our children.  I do make it a point to try to be focused and present when with our kids but the reality is that we all have our less than perfect moments.  

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Sources" are telling news outlets that Father knew his toddler was in the car

 

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/source-cobb-father-new-child-was-left-hot-car/ngRn6/?NCclS1?__federated=1

 

Sources tell Channel 2 Action News there is evidence that a Cobb County father knew his son was left in the back of his car. The child died after several hours in the hot vehicle.

Late Tuesday afternoon, investigators and prosecutors gathered at the Cobb County Police Department to go over some of the evidence in the murder case.

Justin Ross Harris, 33, told police he left for work before 9 a.m.on June 19.

Seven hours later, when he was heading home, Harris claims he realized his 22-month-old son, Cooper, had been left in the car.

Channel 2's Jodie Fleischer broke new developments in the case on Twitter just after 5 p.m. Tuesday.

"Sources tell me there is evidence Cobb father Justin Ross Harris knew his son was left in the hot car," she wrote in a Tweet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why when my dh is supposed to do something for the kids outside of his normal routine, I call/text him to make sure it happened.

 

"Are you still able to pick up the kids from x activity?"

 

"Did you pick dd up?"

 

Yes, he's an adult who "ought" to be able to manage these things on his own, but if it's out of the normal routine, there's a good chance it will be forgotten.

 

I think sometimes we moms and dads bristle at the suggestion that we'd forget our own kids, but reality is that it happens to all of us.

 

Perhaps if parents were more honest about their tendency to "zone out" in the routine of life (even if it's about their kids, the most important thing they have), they might be more apt to give themselves reminders. Like an alarm on your cell phone or a text from the other parent ensuring that the assigned task was completed.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

the warrant you linked is new. 

 

It looks like Father and son went to breakfast and Father put the baby back in his carseat, then drove to work. The baby wasn't dropped off at daycare. 

 

But then the father went out to the car at lunch time. It seems like the police think it was possible that the father either saw the baby OR should have seen the baby then.

 

I'm not sure what happened. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the warrant you linked is new.

 

It looks like Father and son went to breakfast and Father put the baby back in his carseat, then drove to work. The baby wasn't dropped off at daycare.

 

But then the father went out to the car at lunch time. It seems like the police think it was possible that the father either saw the baby OR should have seen the baby then.

 

I'm not sure what happened.

It says he opened his driver's side door and placed something in the car. Baby was in a rear facing car seat, so it's definitely possible he didn't see the baby. At least let's hope so.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did something a few months ago that could have killed Dd4. It was a stupid, unintentional mistake. I had never done it before and don't see myself ever doing it again. Dd4 has been a joy and delight since birth, a dearly beloved part of our family. If something had happened to her, my sorrow and guilt would have had me contemplating suicide. Good, loving parents can do something dumb with catastrophic results.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I said don't call 911 unless you believe it's a real emergency. If you see a kid in a car, look around, use your brains, check with the parents if possible, otherwise wait a couple minutes and see if there is a real danger to the child vs. just a parenting choice you would not make.

 

NO CHILD HAS EVER BEEN PHYSICALLY INJURED BECAUSE OF BEING IN A CAR FOR 5 MINUTES. No child ever. If it has ever happened, find me the proof. If it has never caused injury IT IS SAFE and it is as good a parenting choice as any other. But we know there are a series of cases of parents being prosecuted and in danger of losing their kids over doing this. They are in the news more and more often.

 

So you say, that as far as you know, kids won't be taken for being in a car 5 minutes. I'm not sure. But if it's really just 5 minutes, the police never should have been called in the first place. The parents and kids shouldn't have been scared. The parents should not have to be investigated. A CPS file should not be opened. They should not have to hire a lawyer, appear in court, have to plead guilty to a "lesser charge," have a criminal record, pay fines, report to probation officers, etc.

 

All I'm asking is that people think about the gravity of the consequences before they call 911. Hopefully most of us would do that, but many declare that they would "not hesitate" to call 911 if they saw a kid alone in a car, without any additional considerations. I am saying everyone should hesitate because their call could hurt the child more than it helps. But if, after hesitating, you determine there is real danger, then call.

I agree that 5 minutes in a car is not dangerous. But if you are in a hot parking lot and see a sleeping baby in back, how are you supposed to know if that kid has been there 3 minutes or has been there 40 minutes? A comatose baby can look like a sleeping baby. Err on the side of common sense.... which means protecting the parents is not the priority.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that 5 minutes in a car is not dangerous. But if you are in a hot parking lot and see a sleeping baby in back, how are you supposed to know if that kid has been there 3 minutes or has been there 40 minutes? A comatose baby can look like a sleeping baby. Err on the side of common sense.... which means protecting the parents is not the priority.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think anyone is advocating walking away if you see a baby sleeping in a hot parking lot.

 

The case we were discussing upthread was about a mom leaving a four year old for 4-5 minutes in a temperate parking lot.  If I was walking through a Target parking lot on a 50 degree day and happened to notice a preschooler sitting in the back seat of a car happily preoccupied on a iPad, I would not consider that child in immediate danger even if he had been there for 40 minutes already.

 

If I choose to monitor the situation for a bit before calling 911, I am not doing so to protect the parent, but rather to protect the child.  If the child is not in immediate danger, then it seems to me that it would do him more harm than good to sic CPS on his parents (especially if, as in the previously mentioned case, the child had actually only been there for a couple minutes).  I believe that the vast majority of parents are good people who can make good decisions for their children (even if those decisions don't look exactly like mine), and in the vast majority of cases governmental interference negatively impacts the child, parent and family.

 

Wendy

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did it once. I went to the grocery store with the then-baby and an older child. I was having the older one write a grocery list and I was focused on that. The baby never made a peep all the way to the store. We pulled in to the spot, still talking, got out, locked the doors and went into the store. We hadn't been inside for more than a few seconds when my daughter said, "Wait! didn't we bring Mia?" My heart lept into my throat when I realized what I'd done.

 

Taking the baby to the store was definitely outside my usual routine. My oldest was a teen and I had five children at home. Usually going to the store was a chance for one on one attention with a rotating cast if characters. She was a thumb sucker, so very quiet, and our van seats completely blocked the back seat.

 

I also drove an hour once before I realized I neglected to buckle the car seat. Sometimes I wonder how I've managed to keep seven children alive and undamaged.

 

Something similar happened to me. Several years ago, I would go grocery shopping on the weekends when my husband could watch my then-baby. One day, though, she was being really calm and he was busy so I brought her with me. She was rearfaced, very quiet at the time, and then I pulled into the parking lot, got out of my car, and started walking to the door of the grocery store. Bam. It hit me, oh my goodness, I brought the baby with me! And I ran back to the car. It still makes me sick to think about what could have happened if I hadnt remembered as it takes me a good hour to grocery shop and it was summer time. :(

 

Therefore by the grace of God go I.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think anyone is advocating walking away if you see a baby sleeping in a hot parking lot.

 

The case we were discussing upthread was about a mom leaving a four year old for 4-5 minutes in a temperate parking lot.  If I was walking through a Target parking lot on a 50 degree day and happened to notice a preschooler sitting in the back seat of a car happily preoccupied on a iPad, I would not consider that child in immediate danger even if he had been there for 40 minutes already.

 

If I choose to monitor the situation for a bit before calling 911, I am not doing so to protect the parent, but rather to protect the child.  If the child is not in immediate danger, then it seems to me that it would do him more harm than good to sic CPS on his parents (especially if, as in the previously mentioned case, the child had actually only been there for a couple minutes).  I believe that the vast majority of parents are good people who can make good decisions for their children (even if those decisions don't look exactly like mine), and in the vast majority of cases governmental interference negatively impacts the child, parent and family.

 

Wendy

 

Did you see the post I was responding to? 

 

So you say, that as far as you know, kids won't be taken for being in a car 5 minutes. I'm not sure. But if it's really just 5 minutes, the police never should have been called in the first place. The parents and kids shouldn't have been scared. The parents should not have to be investigated. A CPS file should not be opened. They should not have to hire a lawyer, appear in court, have to plead guilty to a "lesser charge," have a criminal record, pay fines, report to probation officers, etc.

 

If 30+ children die in hot cars a year, odds are good at least one was seen by someone who assumed parents would be right back.

 

Not sure if you're ever seen this experiment: http://blogs.babycenter.com/mom_stories/why-didn%E2%80%99t-people-help-the-baby-left-behind-in-a-hot-car/?scid=preg_2_20120705:2&pe=MlVCTnRjcnwyMDEyMDcwNQ.. Most people just walked by a crying  baby alone in a backseat on a hot day.  I don't think the main risk in this scenario is CPS involvement, I think the main risk is dead children.

 

Having said that, I'm someone who will leave my kids in a car for a few minutes, windows cracked, on a temperate day (while the car is in view).  But if no parent is in sight, and no parent responds to me looking into their car and seeing a sleeping child, I will err on the side of overly cautious every time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think anyone is advocating walking away if you see a baby sleeping in a hot parking lot.

 

...

 

If I choose to monitor the situation for a bit before calling 911, I am not doing so to protect the parent, but rather to protect the child.

 

I agree - and that is what I would do. But it does seem irritating that someone would find it too hard to unload the child or feel like they are in too big of a hurry, but no matter how busy I am, I would feel like I had to wait to make the the kid was ok. That isn't the kid's problem though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On interstate 65 a couple days ago the electronic highway alert signs actually had a message that said something like "Where's Baby? Check your backseat". I think it was the first in our stretch of 90+ degree days.

 

I remember seeing that and at the time I had my grandson with me. Luckily, he is old enough to get out of both his car seat and the car. Of course, the parking lot scares the heck out of me now but we have a ratio of ten adults to his one so he usually has several people watching over him at one time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please don't think it's okay to leave kids in the car just because the weather is temperate! I would consider temps in the 70s to be quite mild, but cars can reach killing temperatures even when it is in the 60s. Heatstroke can occur in temps as low as 57 degrees. 

 

source: http://www.safercar.gov/parents/heatstroke.htm

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wolf is not allowed to take one of the baby Minions out alone.

 

Yes, NOT ALLOWED.

 

Reason being, normally when we go out, it's either he and I, all of us, or he's got one of the older kids w/him.

 

Rarely, it's us and one of the little ones.

 

I have watched him walk away from the truck, completely forgetting that we've got a baby in tow, and called him back. It's happened twice.

 

It's so out of his routine, and the babies fall asleep, and are quiet, *and* he doesn't see them in their seat in the rear view, that he forgets they're along.

 

So, either I'm along, or babies don't go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Atlanta case sure seems like it was deliberate. It wasn't out of the dad's routine since all the articles say his son attended an on site daycare at dad's place of employment. When you add in that they stopped for breakfast less than a mile from work, it just doesn't sound that plausible that he then also forget to do what he normally does and take his son inside. It would take a very sick person to do that deliberately though. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is not true that all the articles say the daycare was on-site.  The following says it was located a couple miles away at the Home Depot office and the dad worked at a satellite office: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/timeline-of-a-cobb-county-toddlers-death/ngSSk/

 

I would tend to believe that because not only does it make a lot more sense, but it is a local source so I think they'd be more likely to get these details right while national news like CNN just hear daycare at Home Depot corporate office, know that dad worked for Home Depot and assume it has to be the same location.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is not true that all the articles say the daycare was on-site.  The following says it was located a couple miles away at the Home Depot office and the dad worked at a satellite office: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/timeline-of-a-cobb-county-toddlers-death/ngSSk/

 

I would tend to believe that because not only does it make a lot more sense, but it is a local source so I think they'd be more likely to get these details right while national news like CNN just hear daycare at Home Depot corporate office, know that dad worked for Home Depot and assume it has to be the same location.

 

Okay. I really do wish all the news sources would get that bit of information right.

 

That still doesn't explain how one stops for breakfast and then drives only a mile and forgets their son. It also doesn't explain going back to your car at lunch and not noticing your child nor does it explain why both parents had recently searched about death in hot cars. The dad stated it was because he was worried it could happen to them which makes it even stranger that he could drive less than one mile after putting his son in his car and forget him in the heat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest submarines

The Atlanta case sure seems like it was deliberate. It wasn't out of the dad's routine since all the articles say his son attended an on site daycare at dad's place of employment. When you add in that they stopped for breakfast less than a mile from work, it just doesn't sound that plausible that he then also forget to do what he normally does and take his son inside. It would take a very sick person to do that deliberately though. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of it.

 

If stopping for breakfast wasn't usual for the father it actually makes more sense that he'd forget, because it would be a change in routine and enough to throw one off.

 

If he "chore" was to drop the child off and he was used to that, then stopping for breakfast could easily be interpreted by the brain as "done something with the child.", i.e. "chore done."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I can't figure out is if he had some sort of plot to kill his son, why would he go out to the car at all? Didn't he realize that would make his story less plausible? (I'm not defending him, just saying this doesn't make sense.)

 

Also, I find it scary that if you view a PSA for something and then do that thing, your viewing of the PSA can be held against you. I'm speaking more generally here. Just something to think about; I don't think the goal should be to have people avoid PSAs!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, I find it scary that if you view a PSA for something and then do that thing, your viewing of the PSA can be held against you. I'm speaking more generally here. Just something to think about; I don't think the goal should be to have people avoid PSAs!

 

When I first saw that, I wondered how long ago it had been. I think most people with young children have seen any number of PSAs (hot cars, accidental poisoning, drowning, teach your kids how to dial 911, etc.). But the CNN article says it was five days before the death, and the child was 22 months old. :( And the details suggest that the mother may have known, too. I don't understand how people could intentionally do something like that, but it does sound like it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I can't figure out is if he had some sort of plot to kill his son, why would he go out to the car at all? Didn't he realize that would make his story less plausible? (I'm not defending him, just saying this doesn't make sense.)

 

Also, I find it scary that if you view a PSA for something and then do that thing, your viewing of the PSA can be held against you. I'm speaking more generally here. Just something to think about; I don't think the goal should be to have people avoid PSAs!

I thought about that, too, but then I realized that for most people who watch the PSA that thing doesn't usually just coincidentally happen to them shortly thereafter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought about that, too, but then I realized that for most people who watch the PSA that thing doesn't usually just coincidentally happen to them shortly thereafter.

 

Yeah, but for me it's the principle of the thing. It's one thing if people have done web searches, looked at detailed maps where a body was found, searched for "chloroform" (I'm looking at you, Casey), etc. I just don't think we should publicize the idea that if you watch an PSA and then you back over your child or they eat unlocked prescription meds it will be held against you. We want as many people as possible to watch them, right? 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I can't figure out is if he had some sort of plot to kill his son, why would he go out to the car at all? Didn't he realize that would make his story less plausible? (I'm not defending him, just saying this doesn't make sense.)

 

Also, I find it scary that if you view a PSA for something and then do that thing, your viewing of the PSA can be held against you. I'm speaking more generally here. Just something to think about; I don't think the goal should be to have people avoid PSAs!

 

You would be amazed at the absolutely stupid things people do when committing a crime, even when they are planning it in advance. 

 

If I understand correctly, he didn't just so happen to view a PSA, but searched for information. Which certainly many parents do as well, but it strains credulity to think that he did so and then had the exact thing happen to him days later. 

 

I wonder why she wasn't arrested as well. Her behavior is certainly odd.

 

Odd behavior isn't enough to arrest her on, but it would not surprise me if they are trying to gather evidence against her. They wouldn't want the 'speedy trial' clock to start ticking too soon. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Out of sight out of mind? 

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

 

I was saying if he plotted to kill his son he would have been better off never coming back to the car at all, so as not to raise the "why didn't he see/smell him" discussion in the first place. That's what's weird to me. Unless he's a complete idiot and he forgot he was in the middle of killing his son when he went back to the car. Or he's a genius and his plan was to say the fact that he went back out proves it was not deliberate because who would do that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...