Crimson Wife Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 What I seriously don't understand about men who want their daughters to not pursue education but then HS their grandkids is how the daughter is supposed to be able to do a good job in the HSing without strong academic skills? Even if the women in the family never wind up having to work for pay, the stronger their academic skills, the better job they'll be able to do educating their male descendents. I have ancestors on my mom's side who were very conservative Puritan (and later Baptist) ministers but who believed in female education for precisely that reason. It's a pretty sexist reason IMHO (I personally believe in education for the woman's own sake and not just her future son's) but it is something that might resonate with a very conservative father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckens Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Prairie-Phlox -- Send your daughter to the College of the Ozarks. Tuition is in exchange for working in campus; it's a Christian community; your dd would learn many skills on campus; and they have a Nursing program. I'd contact them now to learn the requirements for admission. And I can't agree more with what betty says: No matter how great a man appears to be things happen: 1. unexpected death 2. unexpected disability 3. unexpected abuse Are you planning to take care of your dd and whatever children she has in the event these things happen. How will you dh handle having to support his dd's disabled husband. Think through all the possibilities. Your dd will be better equipped to and more confident in caring for her family if she can take care of herself. I will not knowingly set my dd up to feel trapped. Finding a husband may be the plan your dh wants, but how can he know God's plan for your dd. As a parent I would help my dd find the financial resources or scholarship opportunities for whatever postsecondary training she wants to pursue. I'm sure you could find a dozen women in the hive right now who have personal experience with bad luck when it comes to death/disability/abuse with a spouse....and no education. No one wants that for your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 That is a terrible position to be in. I'm sorry that you have to deal with it. I would continue to try to soften dh's stance on it using many arguments mentioned here, BUT when it comes down to it, you can't change another person. I would do everything in my power to help my dd get her education. I would help with the research, I would be VERY encouraging to her, I would make sure she was prepared in every way possible. If dh was able to limit the money she received from us for tuition, I would help her apply for loans and help her with costs however I could...bringing her food, letting her stay at home, even getting a job myself and giving her the funds. I can't even imagine the "momma bear" instincts that this would raise in me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsJewelsRae Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I know a lot of nurses who happily quit working once they had children. Why does she have to chose one or the other? My sil chose nursing, got married young at the age of 21 to my 21 yr old bil and continued to work until they were able to have children a few years later, she quit working once she had her first child. But in the meantime her few years of working at the hospital as an OR nurse helped buy a house and set them up for the future so she was able to stay home more comfortably. She's been out of nursing for 10 years now while having kids, and she has the choice to go back if and when she chooses. At 16 she does not need to be focused on getting a husband, she's too young. Becoming a nurse can give her very valuable skills she can use as a wife and mother if that is what God calls her to. Or perhaps God is calling her to the mission field as a nurse and that's where she'll meet her husband, maybe God is not calling her to marriage at all- but that's between her and the Lord. As parents it's our job to support, protect and lovingly guide our children, she is choosing a very safe and noble profession, your dh could push her into rebellion and bitterness and cause her to make far worse choices. I don't have any book recommendations, but perhaps feel out your pastor on the issue, or someone your dh highly respects and may listen to. I would encourage you to pray hard and continue to support your dd and love your husband. God bless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I do believe the Bible teaches us to focus on spiritual things, and not become materialistic of overly focused on things of the world. Some people in my faith take that to mean pursuing additional education. They seem to automatically think there is a reasoning behind it of gaining worldly status, or putting security in titles or finances. Although some people do it for those reasons, there are also legitimate other reasons which don't conflict with keeping spiritually focused. I would perhaps acknowledge your husband's concerns, that for some pursuing additional education can be a path that leads away from God. Then help him understand your motives and that of your daughter, and how those motivations don't conflict with her Godly relationship, but will in fact support it and make it easier for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 BUT when it comes down to it, you can't change another person. I would do everything in my power to help my dd get her education. I would help with the research, I would be VERY encouraging to her, I would make sure she was prepared in every way possible. And yes, after you have used all your persuasion in as respectful as possible manner, this is what I would do. I would not do it "in-your-face", and I would still be as respectful and not-argumentative as possible. But certain areas you have to take a stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Mousie Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 OneStepAtATime and Justasque have made the absolute best practical, move-forward-with-DH posts I have seen on this thread. IMO, you need to hear him out, help him articulate his thoughts and fears (I suspect a lot of his position is based on fear), and work with him through the various possible scenarios. Read their posts again and again ... and watch for opportunities to broach the subject with your DH - when he seems calm and willing to discuss, when you can make him feel like you are not judging him right out of the box but rather are willing to hear him out and understand - that's when you'll make the most progress with each other. Perhaps you can suggest some time out of the house together to discuss it. State ahead of time that each of you will exchange a list of concerns, or better yet call it "points to consider" - and if you both can promise to truly consider each other's points, you may come to better agreement on the best combined approach to take with your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I don't have a book rec, but part of parenting an older child is accepting them for who they are vs. who we want them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Do you know any women who are single not by choice? I know many. People are always telling them to just go ahead and get married; problem is, there is no one for them to marry. Marriage doesn't come to everyone, or when we want/expect it to. Your husband is being unrealistic but I agree with those who say to get him talking about his concerns and see if you can help him get around them. I would hate to see him drive his daughter out of his life completely with his attitude. Nursing, by the way, is a great choice for someone who wants to be a stay-home mom. In many places nurses can make a pretty nice rate working only when they want to. I know a homeschooling family in which the mom works 3 weekends a month for much-needed income. She loves the work; her husband and kids get the best of her all week and the kids get a lot of Dad time on weekends. When her husband was out of work for a while, she was able to pick up more hours and keep the family going temporarily. Win for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Prairie-Phlox -- Send your daughter to the College of the Ozarks. Tuition is in exchange for working in campus; it's a Christian community; your dd would learn many skills on campus; and they have a Nursing program. A coworker spent a year or so at this college, and he speaks very highly of his experience there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 *trying to honor the mod's request while posting authentically* Assuming that my world view included working within the marriage...The disrespect of persons based on gender and the resulting impact on my children, life, and marriage would cause me to seek outside support and help for my family. The content of the husband's perspective is serious and with multi-layered ramifications. Those include MY self esteem and re,y marital experience, my dd's self esteem and future, her relationship with her father and probably also religion and God. I would seek an outside, possibly professional, help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMom Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I actually knew a family that had this belief. The dad gave lots of talks and wrote a lot about not pursuing education or jobs for the girls. His explanation for if something happened such as death or disability was that the extended family would support them. Well, #2 daughter is now married with a three year old. Her husband has been out of work with a disability for two years and they aren't sure he will ever return to work. Guess what? Her family's business had a serious downturn in the economy crisis and they cannot afford to support her. She has been working as a dishwasher at an overnight diner and barely eaking out a living. Case number two: the family didn't really believe in higher education for any child, but they did allow a one year bible school. Daughter #1 met husband there; husband is an engineer who is adding on some bible training. Family overjoyed. Spends a lot of time telling everyone how God is faithful for women who pursue home/husband/children vs career. They are just about to have a baby when he gets hit on the head in a freak accident. He had a severe concussion; has not been able to work as an engineer for over a year now. His prognosis is uncertain, and because she has no job experience or education it has put extreme strain in their marriage and family life. Situation #3: My parents insist on some form of higher education or career training. I earn several degrees and then add on paramedic training. I don't work full time but enough to keep my skills current and develop a good reputation in the Ems community. After four years of marriage and two kids, husband blows his shoulder out and can't work. I go back to work full time while he's out; life goes on as planned. I don't understand the attitude at all. It seems sexist and cruel. It would absolutely be my hill to die on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Give her the best education at home that you can. When she's 18, she can make her own decisions about college, regardless of what either of her parents thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I agree with so many previous posts. You need to understand exactly why he is making these ludicrous statements so you can convince him to be rational. If he has taken up with some kind of patriarchal crap, you have my sympathy. Just another point of reference regarding Christian women and nursing. My MIL was an RN. She met her husband in college. She worked part-time shifts when they needed money for FIL to pursue his doctorate and later his MBA. Their children never were in daycare because she had flexible hours, and her salary helped put her three sons through college. But most of all, she considers her work her ministry. She has been able to serve, pray for, and sometimes pray with people who truly needed her. It may be that this is where God is calling your daughter. It is her life, she must live it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Obviously I think you are right that your daughter should get the education that she wants and that she needs to be prepared for an uncertain world. I can't even imagine how this is only coming out/coming to a head now. Is this something your husband has always felt or is it something he's picked up recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Is this something your husband has always felt or is it something he's picked up recently? This. Though to be honest, I am not sure higher education for future daughters vs marriage right out of the gates is something I ever thought to ask on a date with a potential future husband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 This. Though to be honest, I am not sure higher education for future daughters vs marriage right out of the gates is something I ever thought to ask on a date with a potential future husband. It might be something that I'd expect in a more patriarchal situation though? My DH and I definitely had some discussions on child rearing before we married. Just as another antecdote, I did not marry until I was 29. I worked professionally through my 20's. I brought a house, substantial savings to our relationship. I also had some life experience and world travel that I think has served me well as a homeschooler and parent. I would probably not be able to homeschool full time without some kind of job right now if that weren't the case. My DH has a master's in a tech field and was definitely not interested in dating women without a higher education. This would absolutely be a hill I would die on with my own spouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 It might be something that I'd expect in a more patriarchal situation though? My DH and I definitely had some discussions on child rearing before we married. Just as another antecdote, I did not marry until I was 29. I worked professionally through my 20's. I brought a house, substantial savings to our relationship. I also had some life experience and world travel that I think has served me well as a homeschooler and parent. I would probably not be able to homeschool full time without some kind of job right now if that weren't the case. My DH has a master's in a tech field and was definitely not interested in dating women without a higher education. This would absolutely be a hill I would die on with my own spouse. Up until I joined this board I had no idea that such a thing even existed. I am still in shock to be completely honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 My MIL is always saying that you need to develop Plan B (and maybe even Plan C) before Plan A fails because often you aren't in a great place to figure out Plan B while digging out from under the demise of Plan A. I think she has a point. So perhaps even if your daughter's Plan A is marriage, and stay at home motherhood she should work on Plan B. It sounds like nursing might be an enjoyable Plan B for her so it would be reasonable for her to pursue that. I also agree that spouses die. My husband was a baby when his father was killed in an accident unexpectedly. His mother was fortunate to have the support of her family who helped care for him while she went to law school. I'm my DH's second wife. Their son was four when his wife died. He was fortunate to have family support and career flexibility that allowed him to transition into something that allowed him more time to actively parent while still earning enough to support himself and his son. My father died when I was pregnant with our oldest daughter, he had arranged things in such a way that finances were not an issue for my mother. Still she returned to the teaching job she had left when he was sick (because she wanted and needed to be there for him) after his death and I firmly believe that job helped her grieve and see that there could still be joy amongst the pain in a way that other things would not have. I'm glad she had that opportunity and I'm very glad that she is still going strong and being an amazing grandmother to my kids. I also believe that regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, or religion all should be free to pursue any career that interests them as long as they have the ability and aptitude to be competent. My husband shares this belief so I've never been in this situation and doubt I will be in the future. I think if I was I might try to encourage my husband to support his child I know he loves rather than pushing the larger agenda. In the grand scheme he can oppose female physicians but he can support our daughter being a physician because to do otherwise would be not supporting his daughter who he loves. I know that sounds a bit far fetched especially in our situation since I am a female physician but I guess I mean I would try to focus on the individual relationships over the overriding perspective if that makes any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Your daughter doesn't need his consent or permission to go to nursing school. If he refuses financial aid form information, you have a legal right to access it and give it to her. I'd help her persue her goals. I'd firmly tell my husband what's what. There isn't anything else to be done really. She is nearly an adult, it's 2014. If she wants to go to school, you do what you can to help her go to school. He needs to come around on this or it will hurt both of them. One option for nursing is to get an RN at the local community college and then work while the employer helps pay for your BSN. Most major hospitals want BSNs now. Or go straight to a BSN program if she has the grades and scores and means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHomeschoolDad Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I think most fathers would love to hear their daughters are taken care of, no need for working and can focus on home and kids. LOL. Um, no. I'd like DD to earn enough so she and her partner can decide which one would be best at home, based on factors of their choosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Is your Dh against universities in general, no matter what gender? I grew up in a religion that very strongly discouraged anyone form going to University. they were viewed as the great evil. I was very strongly encouraged to leave school as soon as I reached school leaving age and devote myself to God. If your DH comes from this kind of background and has beliefs that University is a great evil then he might not be able to see an alternate view ( that not everyone that goes to university ends up leaving God, marrying out of the faith, having children out of wedlock, turning into a drug addict, becoming materialistic etc... these were all things brain washed into me when I was young..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 When your daughter turns 18, she gets to choose. Do your best to prepare to make the best choice for herself. You can choose whether to help or hinder her in her efforts once she turns 18. Your husband gets the same choice. Hopefully, it will one that helps her to flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I also believe that regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, or religion all should be free to pursue any career that interests them as long as they have the ability and aptitude to be competent. My husband shares this belief so I've never been in this situation and doubt I will be in the future. I think if I was I might try to encourage my husband to support his child I know he loves rather than pushing the larger agenda. In the grand scheme he can oppose female physicians but he can support our daughter being a physician because to do otherwise would be not supporting his daughter who he loves. I know that sounds a bit far fetched especially in our situation since I am a female physician but I guess I mean I would try to focus on the individual relationships over the overriding perspective if that makes any sense. I think this is wise advice. The issue on your plate is not "should girls in general get married or go to college", it's "what should our dd do after high school graduation to continue to prepare herself for her adult life, which is likely to include marriage and children at some point, but which may benefit from additional skills (perhaps used to earn wages or perhaps used in service to her family and community) regardless of when or if marriage occurs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 It might be something that I'd expect in a more patriarchal situation though? My DH and I definitely had some discussions on child rearing before we married. Just as another antecdote, I did not marry until I was 29. I worked professionally through my 20's. I brought a house, substantial savings to our relationship. I also had some life experience and world travel that I think has served me well as a homeschooler and parent. I would probably not be able to homeschool full time without some kind of job right now if that weren't the case. My DH has a master's in a tech field and was definitely not interested in dating women without a higher education. This would absolutely be a hill I would die on with my own spouse. I once offended a bunch of people by saying that I didn't think I would want my son marrying a woman with neither higher education nor working skills. Not because I wouldn't be pleased for him to be able to support a stay-home wife - I would, actually. It just seems that a person with no desire for education beyond high school and no ability to work could quickly become a liability in a marriage. Of course there is always self-education and that would make a difference to me. I also hope my daughter has the opportunity to be a stay-home mom/wife if she wants to, but she will have marketable skills as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I am not sure if I read your first post correctly. When you said "on her own at 18", were you meaning that it'd be up to her to pay for it, or that she'd get kicked out with a "never darken my doorstep again" if she even tried for it? The first one, I'd help her find the financial information she needs and brainstorm alternative ways for her to get into college. One of my friends was successfully able to petition to have the parents financial information not included after living on her own for a year (her parents refused to pay for her college for different reasons). She could take training as something like a CNA, which is a fairly decent job for a high school graduate, and would allow her to fund her own living quarters and save money for college while waiting until her parents information doesn't count as far as grants. The second one ... yeah. That IS a hill I'd die on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 It's a suggestion for the OP to present to her dh as to WHY her dd should go to college, because his main concern seems to be that she find a husband. It was not meant to be the reason why any other female on the planet should attend college. The OP was asking for ways to deal with her particular husband and his particular issues on women and higher education. This argument might be a way she could convince a dh with a sexist attitude toward women that college would be ok for his dd...she could snag a man there. And, I did meet my dh at college, as did my dd, but that wasn't our motivation for higher education. It was collateral damage. :D I know, and I totally get that. I do understand that the advice was given as an alternative, and not because the ladies here necessarily think that college is for snaggin' a man. I'm just coming from the perspective that swapping one sexist attitude for another doesn't fix the problem, KWIM? Two wrongs don't make a right. I wouldn't want to convince DH with a slightly less sexist argument, I'd want him to understand why his point of view is garbage, or, preferably, not have that point of view in the first place...however, I realize that's not helpful for the OP at this point in time. And I certainly am on board with finding a spouse at college as collateral damage, so I hope no one thinks I think that is a problem! :) OP, I think you've gotten some great advice. I think your daughter is lucky to have you in her corner--it sounds like you're going to do whatever it takes to support her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Is your Dh against universities in general, no matter what gender? I grew up in a religion that very strongly discouraged anyone form going to University. they were viewed as the great evil. I was very strongly encouraged to leave school as soon as I reached school leaving age and devote myself to God. If your DH comes from this kind of background and has beliefs that University is a great evil then he might not be able to see an alternate view ( that not everyone that goes to university ends up leaving God, marrying out of the faith, having children out of wedlock, turning into a drug addict, becoming materialistic etc... these were all things brain washed into me when I was young..) I think I am derailing a bit but I hope not too much, and maybe this could be a talking point for OP with her husband. If Christians stop going to university, there will be no Christian doctors, lawyers, judges, nurses... and on and on and on. I fail to see how any Christian can see that as a good thing. And there is no reason those people can't still devote themselves to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think I am derailing a bit but I hope not too much, and maybe this could be a talking point for OP with her husband. If Christians stop going to university, there will be no Christian doctors, lawyers, judges, nurses... and on and on and on. I fail to see how any Christian can see that as a good thing. And there is no reason those people can't still devote themselves to God. The religion that I was brought up in suggested that the educated people needed converting.. then you could have educated Christian who were lawyers, doctors etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I've been thinking about this thread the whole day. I cannot wrap my head around being married to a man who doesn't want his child to live up to her full potential based upon her genitalia. I just cannot even imagine. I wouldn't die on this hill. I would divorce this hill in 22 seconds, grab all my children and then run for the proverbial hills. My gods. It's 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 She doesn't need him. You are educating her, so prepare her. She needs a top-notch high school education and access to the PSAT, SAT, ACT, and whatever hoops may be required by the colleges of her choice and the laws of your state. And you take her on the college visits, do the research, fill out the FAFSA. I have no idea if what I'm about to say is against the board rules about marriage talk because I never do quite get the hang of that particular set of guidelines, so please know that I'm not trying to break board rules and apologize in advance if I do:I would not allow this to be DD's problem with her Dad. I would very swiftly move the game pieces so that this subject would be his problem with ME. Because if my DH doesn't want me to properly educate my children and prepare them for college AND help them grow into adulthood, he's gonna have to try and stop me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I guess I'd try to reason w/ dh but goodness I cannot even imagine this conversation. I'd not allow my dh to kick my daughter out at 18 b/c she was planning on college, I'd be kicking him out instead. Maybe it is better however to help dd find some scholarship money and get away however if this is the general and accepted attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I've been thinking about this thread the whole day. I cannot wrap my head around being married to a man who doesn't want his child to live up to her full potential based upon her genitalia. I just cannot even imagine. I wouldn't die on this hill. I would divorce this hill in 22 seconds, grab all my children and then run for the proverbial hills. My gods. It's 2014. I know a fair number of women who would like to quit their paid positions to become SAHM's but cannot because of their student loans and being "underwater" on a house that requires both incomes to afford. This is the reality in 2014 and I can totally see where a loving father might not want his daughter to find herself in that position. Like it or not, women are not identical to men and far more moms than dads would like to be FT homemakers. Now I do not think that the solution is to deny the daughter an education that she wishes for herself, but rather to help her find ways to afford that education without taking on a lot of debt for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The religion that I was brought up in suggested that the educated people needed converting.. then you could have educated Christian who were lawyers, doctors etc. And then everyone converts and their children don't go to college? This is going nowhere good, nowhere fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I know a fair number of women who would like to quit their paid positions to become SAHM's but cannot because of their student loans and being "underwater" on a house that requires both incomes to afford. This is the reality in 2014 and I can totally see where a loving father might not want his daughter to find herself in that position. Like it or not, women are not identical to men and far more moms than dads would like to be FT homemakers. Now I do not think that the solution is to deny the daughter an education that she wishes for herself, but rather to help her find ways to afford that education without taking on a lot of debt for it. I think educating children about being cautious about debt and pragmatic about their college spending is a lesson that works for both genders. It has absolutely nothing to do with thinking that college is unnecessary or even wrong for women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have a homeschool friend who trained as a nurse. She is mostly doing the mom/wife thing and is able to pick up weekend hours as a nurse here and there. She has been able to supplement the family income and support her husband who was a lower paid pastor and now an unpaid support raising missionary. I think choosing nursing as a career is a very wise move for ANY want to be stay at home mom/wife. It's an easy way to make extra money without compromising family dynamics. If I was smarter as a college student I would have found a career that would have allowed me to do very part time work while being able to stay home with my kids. As it stands right now, my dh is 30% underemployed and the extra income would make things around here less stressful. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I know a fair number of women who would like to quit their paid positions to become SAHM's but cannot because of their student loans and being "underwater" on a house that requires both incomes to afford. This is the reality in 2014 and I can totally see where a loving father might not want his daughter to find herself in that position. Like it or not, women are not identical to men and far more moms than dads would like to be FT homemakers. Now I do not think that the solution is to deny the daughter an education that she wishes for herself, but rather to help her find ways to afford that education without taking on a lot of debt for it. I know just as many men with a similar position because of student loans. There is nothing about that specific to women. Locally, there are more and more homeschooling dads and dads at home with infants to preschoolers and the mom is the professional wage earner. Different things work for different families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 LOL. Um, no. I'd like DD to earn enough so she and her partner can decide which one would be best at home, based on factors of their choosing. I agree. I just think most think of the female staying home generally in a one income household. And just an fyi, my DH was a SAHD with four in diapers for a good while, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I agree. I just think most think of the female staying home generally in a one income household. And just an fyi, my DH was a SAHD with four in diapers for a good while, lol. Which is fine and good and all that....but I don't think it is the norm. I hope and pray my ds is able to support a wife so she can be a SAHM.....but if I had a dd I would think nursing would be a perfect way to go....if she never finds Mr. right or if she does and something goes wrong....she can support herself and any children....if she does find Mr. Right she can easily supplement the family's income with very part time work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 it is a time of discernment for him, i think. your dd has been praying, and this is what she is hearing. you have been praying and this is what you are hearing. ask him to pray for discernment, that God may show him what God's plan is for your dd. perhaps, it is the plan that she become a missionary/missionary's wife, and be able to care for people in the mission field. we see through a glass darkly. i'd encourage lots of prayer, and a time of abiding (not deciding), until the three of you are hearing the same thing. meanwhile, i would make sure that many things, including nursing, are possible. and at some point two years from now, if it is still the same, you might consider asking him if he really wants to ask his daughter to choose between her Father and her father, or whether he might be able to see his way towards honoring her prayer life and discernment. this is as much about faith as it is about parenting or spousal relationship. its tough; i'm sorry ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Which is fine and good and all that....but I don't think it is the norm. I hope and pray my ds is able to support a wife so she can be a SAHM.....but if I had a dd I would think nursing would be a perfect way to go....if she never finds Mr. right or if she does and something goes wrong....she can support herself and any children....if she does find Mr. Right she can easily supplement the family's income with very part time work. I agree. My goal was always to have a career to support or supplement our family income. I think it is quite wise. I was just stating that I think plenty of dads would think it ideal situation if their daughters spouse made enough so that working was a choice. Not a necessity. Wasn't stating anyone should plan on it being so. Definitely isnt that way typically these days it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I know a fair number of women who would like to quit their paid positions to become SAHM's but cannot because of their student loans and being "underwater" on a house that requires both incomes to afford. This is the reality in 2014 and I can totally see where a loving father might not want his daughter to find herself in that position. Like it or not, women are not identical to men and far more moms than dads would like to be FT homemakers. Now I do not think that the solution is to deny the daughter an education that she wishes for herself, but rather to help her find ways to afford that education without taking on a lot of debt for it. I know NO women like this and wouldn't care to. I live in that educated bubble. I get that. But the men in our lives love and adore having educated wives. My husband is incredibly proud of all of my accomplishments and I would never want to be married to someone who has that level of insecurity. The pride in my DH's eyes when his daughter leaps the farthest in ballet is nothing compared to the pride in his eyes when she solves a complicated mathematical equation. For the record, most of my friends are SAHMs. We all find a great deal of security in knowing that if any of our great life plans fail, we can step in as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think educating children about being cautious about debt and pragmatic about their college spending is a lesson that works for both genders. It has absolutely nothing to do with thinking that college is unnecessary or even wrong for women. Someone who plans to hold FT employment without any breaks for raising children has a different ROI for higher education and student loan debt than someone who does not have that plan. To the extent that more women than men would like to be a homemaker after having children, it *IS* a bigger concern for women. There's a reason why it was my DH rather than both of us who decided on grad school when we were in our mid-20's. It made financial sense for him but not me at the time given that I knew I wanted to be a SAHM while our kids were young. Now a dozen years later, the ROI makes more sense and I am in the process of researching grad schools and figuring out what I will need to do to apply for fall 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Its funny how life can turn out in the end. My aunt married a very conservative man who wanted a son. When their daughter was born he refused to even go to the hospital and visit her until other family members forced him to go. He was totally against her having any higher education and wanted her to be married as young as possible. Fast forward 20 years. She and her mother fought for her to get an engineering degree. Once she had the degree in hand she was offered a very prestigious position in an expensive, world-class city. She moved there and flourished. Eventually her parents grew older and could no longer support themselves so they moved in with my cousin. Now she is completely supporting them, they live in a fantastic area in a fantastic city, and they are both proud of her. The outcome would have been so very different if her mother had not supported her. As a shorter anecdote, my grandmother didn't have the same conflict with her husband about educating her daughters, but she did have that conflict with her brothers and own father. Eventually she and her husband took their family and moved to another country to get away from the pressure. All of her children but one (she had many) ended up with masters degrees or doctorates. She's my hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I agree. My goal was always to have a career to support or supplement our family income. I think it is quite wise. I was just stating that I think plenty of dads would think it ideal situation if their daughters spouse made enough so that working was a choice. Not a necessity. Wasn't stating anyone should plan on it being so. Definitely isnt that way typically these days it seems. Sorry....confusion...I was talking about homeschool dad who said he wasn't a dad who wanted his daughter taken care of..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I know a fair number of women who would like to quit their paid positions to become SAHM's but cannot because of their student loans and being "underwater" on a house that requires both incomes to afford. This is the reality in 2014 and I can totally see where a loving father might not want his daughter to find herself in that position.Like it or not, women are not identical to men and far more moms than dads would like to be FT homemakers. Now I do not think that the solution is to deny the daughter an education that she wishes for herself, but rather to help her find ways to afford that education without taking on a lot of debt for it. I know NO women like this and wouldn't care to. I live in that educated bubble. I get that. But the men in our lives love and adore having educated wives. My husband is incredibly proud of all of my accomplishments and I would never want to be married to someone who has that level of insecurity. The pride in my DH's eyes when his daughter leaps the farthest in ballet is nothing compared to the pride in his eyes when she solves a complicated mathematical equation. For the record, most of my friends are SAHMs. We all find a great deal of security in knowing that if any of our great life plans fail, we can step in as needed. I am trying to figure out what you mean by you know NO women like this and don't care to? Women like what? Who wish they could be full time SAHMs? Do you mean you don't know any because everyone you know is already a SAHM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Someone who plans to hold FT employment without any breaks for raising children has a different ROI for higher education and student loan debt than someone who does not have that plan. To the extent that more women than men would like to be a homemaker after having children, it *IS* a bigger concern for women. There's a reason why it was my DH rather than both of us who decided on grad school when we were in our mid-20's. It made financial sense for him but not me at the time given that I knew I wanted to be a SAHM while our kids were young. Now a dozen years later, the ROI makes more sense and I am in the process of researching grad schools and figuring out what I will need to do to apply for fall 2015. A woman who wishes to be a SAHM making those decisions as a young adult is one thing. A father trying to make that decision for a 15 year old girl is quite another. I am totally down with educating women about their choices and frankly discussing the ramifications of motherhood. I'm a college educated homemaker myself after all. I am not down with anyone trying to make those choices for a woman or girl by telling them to just not get an education. It does not sound like the OP's husband is concerned about their daughter taking on college debt. It sounds like he thinks it's not a good idea for her to get a college degree, period. Not because she might want to be a SAHM but because that is all she should do. That is an idea that is simply shortsighted at the very best in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have taken a look at this college before. They seem to take people closest to them first (Ozarks), and then those with severe financial need, however, the website says they only occasionally take students outside of their region. Dawn Prairie-Phlox -- Send your daughter to the College of the Ozarks. Tuition is in exchange for working in campus; it's a Christian community; your dd would learn many skills on campus; and they have a Nursing program. I'd contact them now to learn the requirements for admission. And I can't agree more with what betty says: I'm sure you could find a dozen women in the hive right now who have personal experience with bad luck when it comes to death/disability/abuse with a spouse....and no education. No one wants that for your daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 A woman who wishes to be a SAHM making those decisions as a young adult is one thing. A father trying to make that decision for a 15 year old girl is quite another. I am totally down with educating women about their choices and frankly discussing the ramifications of motherhood. I'm a college educated homemaker myself after all. I am not down with anyone trying to make those choices for a woman or girl by telling them to just not get an education. It does not sound like the OP's husband is concerned about their daughter taking on college debt. It sounds like he thinks it's not a good idea for her to get a college degree, period. Not because she might want to be a SAHM but because that is all she should do. That is an idea that is simply shortsighted at the very best in 2014. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 And then everyone converts and their children don't go to college? This is going nowhere good, nowhere fast... Well the world was about to end so it didn't really matter....... sounds crazy looking in from the outside doesn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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