What time should an instructor show up for class?

[itsheresomewhere]

I will give the answer to this question later but I wanted to see what time is acceptable to others.

 

The instructor needs a few minutes to setup, open the building, turn on the heat, etc so factor that in.

[Tiberia]

I put 4:50, but that would be the latest. If it were me, I'd come at 4:30, especially if I had to prep the room/building. In many places, 15 minutes late counts as a no-show, and the students can leave/assume the instructor isn't coming.

 

You gonna have an interesting story for us? :lurk5:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'd say 4:30, but that depends on what type of stuff needs to be set up.

[itsheresomewhere]

I put 4:50, but that would be the latest. If it were me, I'd come at 4:30, especially if I had to prep the room/building. In many places, 15 minutes late counts as a no-show, and the students can leave/assume the instructor isn't coming.

 

You gonna have an interesting story for us? :lurk5:

 

Let's just say I have a strong dislike for chronic lateness and it will be interesting.   I agree with your time.   

[Dmmetler]

4:30 if possible, but I've had a few semesters when I had a class ending at 4:30 and another starting at 5:00, in a different building, so 4:45 was about as good as I could manage. And then there were the semesters I taught k-6th grade with one class ending at 10:15 and the next starting at 10:15, while teaching from a cart. Not possible to make everyone happy-either y cut one class off early, or you show up to the next late.

[bettyandbob]

The instructor should show up at whatever time allows him to be ready to start the class on time.

 

Some people can walk in the door and immediately engage the class in lecture or a learning exercise. I'd say most instructors need at least five minutes, but I won't say every instructor needs to be 5 minutes early.

 

Some instructors need to be early to set up. Setting up for class should take place before class time begins.

 

In the case you've described, I would guess 10 minutes. Is opening the building and turning on the heat factored into okay in terms of compensation? Setting up a lesson is directly related to what the instructor is hired to do. Opening the building and turning on heat are not part of typical expectation. Other instructors who use the same space later in the day are not required to set aside time like this. It's not a lot of time, but extra minutes really add up.

[itsheresomewhere]

4:30 if possible, but I've had a few semesters when I had a class ending at 4:30 and another starting at 5:00, in a different building, so 4:45 was about as good as I could manage. And then there were the semesters I taught k-6th grade with one class ending at 10:15 and the next starting at 10:15, while teaching from a cart. Not possible to make everyone happy-either y cut one class off early, or you show up to the next late.

 

This is the instructor's first class of the night to teach. Same building/classroom if that helps.

[Violet Crown]

Quarter past the theoretical start time, if it's the foreign language instructor who runs on European time.

 

(And it works out, because the other family in the tutorial is also from a country where punctuality isn't considered a virtue.)

 

If the instructor is worth it - ours is - just learn to go with the flow. If they stay for the full time you're paying for, who cares if the start/finish times are a little offset?

[itsheresomewhere]

Quarter past the theoretical start time, if it's the foreign language instructor who runs on European time.

 

(And it works out, because the other family in the tutorial is also from a country where punctuality isn't considered a virtue.)

 

If the instructor is worth it - ours is - just learn to go with the flow. If they stay for the full time you're paying for, who cares if the start/finish times are a little offset?

 

 

It is an art/movement type of class.   The instructor is from this country.  And the instructor ends on time sort of.

[Tammi K]

I like to be early so I would have opted for 4:40 but that wasn't a choice. So, I went with 4:50 but I would have been there before that!

[Violet Crown]

It is an art/movement type of class. The instructor is from this country. And the instructor ends on time sort of.

Then any chronic lateness is a problem with not rendering the services paid for.

[Plink]

I always show up 30 min before classes that I teach.  I can't teach when I feel frazzled.

 

On the other hand, I have a fantastic guitar instructor that comes to our house and she is chronically late both starting and ending.  I've decided that she is worth it, but if we were waiting in another location for her I'm not sure that my decision would be the same.

[Catwoman]

It depends how long it takes for the heat to kick in and warm up the classroom. I wouldn't be happy if I had to sit in a cold classroom, so that would be my biggest priority.

[wintermom]

I'd say that 4:30 would be great, to allow for the room to be warm, for people arriving a little early to be able to get into the build and not freeze outside in the cold, and for students to arrive, remove coats, boots, etc. That's assuming it's winter and it's cold outside. Summer would be a little more flexible.

 

The class should also start right at 5:00pm every time so that people would know this and plan accordingly to arrive early. In my experience, it seems that every time the class starts even a few minutes late, people begin to arrive later and it just gets worse over time.

[Parrothead]

What Cat said.

 

If the heat is quick and the room small then I say at least 10 minutes early to unlock the building and do set up.

[itsheresomewhere]

So here is why I am asking-

 

  The instructor(owner) is in her mid twenties and while she is very nice, she has a serious time issue. Several of the parents have a problem with it.  We started this class in September. She show up anywhere between 5pm-6pm.  Last week is was 5:30.  Class is an hour with a 5 minute break for the kids.  Then the next advance class starts at 6.  You stay with your kids unless you live really close.  She needs time to open up the parking lot as the building is fenced in or we are waiting on the busy street.  If it were just a few minutes late, I could handle it thinking traffic but every week she is late.  I would say she needs 10-15 minutes set up for us so really class starts between 5:15-5:30 lately.  The only time she has been on time was the time change.  She told us she does come from another job and getting from her town to this town was hard because of traffic.  I could of handle that until she said she gets off at three and comes from the town I live in.  I couldn't help myself and said I come from that town and I can get here on time.  We have to pay several months in advance and or I would start subtracting from it.   

 

 

Cat- the room is big maybe 30 x 40.  It is a cold room.  DD has been wearing her winter coat during class for the past few classes. 

[Slartibartfast]

I would tell her since you pay for an hour of her time you need the class to start at 5 or the class needs to run late. You pay for an hour, you should get an hour.

[TechWife]

Is there a supervisor you can talk to about it? We had an issue with a swim class once - the instructor was coming from one of the nearby universities and was always 10 min late because of the time his last class let out. The pool manager changed our instructor. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Is there a supervisor you can talk to about it? We had an issue with a swim class once - the instructor was coming from one of the nearby universities and was always 10 min late because of the time his last class let out. The pool manager changed our instructor. 

 

She is it.  She rents the building space. 

[zoobie]

So here is why I am asking-

 

  The instructor(owner) is in her mid twenties and while she is very nice, she has a serious time issue. Several of the parents have a problem with it.  We started this class in September. She show up anywhere between 5pm-6pm.  Last week is was 5:30.  Class is an hour with a 5 minute break for the kids.  Then the next advance class starts at 6.  You stay with your kids unless you live really close.  She needs time to open up the parking lot as the building is fenced in or we are waiting on the busy street.  If it were just a few minutes late, I could handle it thinking traffic but every week she is late.  I would say she needs 10-15 minutes set up for us so really class starts between 5:15-5:30 lately.  The only time she has been on time was the time change.  She told us she does come from another job and getting from her town to this town was hard because of traffic.  I could of handle that until she said she gets off at three and comes from the town I live in.  I couldn't help myself and said I come from that town and I can get here on time.  We have to pay several months in advance and or I would start subtracting from it.   

 

 

Cat- the room is big maybe 30 x 40.  It is a cold room.  DD has been wearing her winter coat during class for the past few classes. 

 

She shouldn't be teaching a 5pm class. She owes you all refunds. I'd speak to whomever is in charge.

[itsheresomewhere]

I would tell her since you pay for an hour of her time you need the class to start at 5 or the class needs to run late. You pay for an hour, you should get an hour.

Several of us have talked to her but it is not making a dent.  I have paid until February.  Recently, she asked us if we could recommend us to friends.  I said when you start showing up on time.  

[itsheresomewhere]

She shouldn't be teaching a 5pm class. She owes you all refunds. I'd speak to whomever is in charge.

 

I have decided I never get my money.  I am chalking it up to a lesson learned. She did come highly recommended by someone who never mentioned the time issue. When asked my friend said she was always late herself so she never noticed. However, she will not get a recommendation from me.  I have several friends who wanted to take this class.  She is ruining her reputation.  

[regentrude]

the instructor should be early enough so that class time can begin at 5pm sharp. If unlocking etc takes 10 minutes, 4:50pm is sufficient. If the setup is more elaborate and requires half an hour, 4:30. Whatever time he or she needs should be planned so that class begins punctually at 5pm.

[regentrude]

Quarter past the theoretical start time, if it's the foreign language instructor who runs on European time.

 

 

I take offense to that phrasing. Please specify that you are talking about Southern Europeans. A German instructor should be expected to be one minute early.

[regentrude]

So here is why I am asking-

 

  The instructor(owner) is in her mid twenties and while she is very nice, she has a serious time issue. Several of the parents have a problem with it.  We started this class in September. She show up anywhere between 5pm-6pm.  Last week is was 5:30.  Class is an hour with a 5 minute break for the kids.  Then the next advance class starts at 6.  You stay with your kids unless you live really close.  She needs time to open up the parking lot as the building is fenced in or we are waiting on the busy street.  If it were just a few minutes late, I could handle it thinking traffic but every week she is late.  I would say she needs 10-15 minutes set up for us so really class starts between 5:15-5:30 lately.  The only time she has been on time was the time change.  She told us she does come from another job and getting from her town to this town was hard because of traffic.  I could of handle that until she said she gets off at three and comes from the town I live in.  I couldn't help myself and said I come from that town and I can get here on time.  We have to pay several months in advance and or I would start subtracting from it.   

 

 

Cat- the room is big maybe 30 x 40.  It is a cold room.  DD has been wearing her winter coat during class for the past few classes. 

 

Absolutely not acceptable.

This said: I would not hold the instructor responsible for the temperature in the room. It is unreasonable to expect the instructor to be several hours early in order to heat the room - this should be the responsibility of the building management.

 

[Harriet Vane]

I would not put up with this, and I don't know anyone else who would.

[Violet Crown]

I take offense to that phrasing. Please specify that you are talking about Southern Europeans. A German instructor should be expected to be one minute early.

Southern French; close enough? :)

[Guest submarines]

The instructor should show up at whatever time allows him to be ready to start the class on time.

 

Some people can walk in the door and immediately engage the class in lecture or a learning exercise. I'd say most instructors need at least five minutes, but I won't say every instructor needs to be 5 minutes early.

 

Some instructors need to be early to set up. Setting up for class should take place before class time begins.

 

In the case you've described, I would guess 10 minutes. Is opening the building and turning on the heat factored into okay in terms of compensation? Setting up a lesson is directly related to what the instructor is hired to do. Opening the building and turning on heat are not part of typical expectation. Other instructors who use the same space later in the day are not required to set aside time like this. It's not a lot of time, but extra minutes really add up.

 

I had a physiology professor who'd burst onto the stage from a side door wearing a long beige rain coat, toss his umbrella and suitcase on the floor, and start lecturing as he was approaching the podium. The whole experience was rather charismatic, and we all loved his enthusiasm and energy.

[LMA]

Whose program is this? Is this the instructor's program or is it a class that is part of a bunch of classes? Do you pay the instructor directly?

 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

Whose program is this? Is this the instructor's program or is it a class that is part of a bunch of classes? Do you pay the instructor directly?

It is her program.  She teaches a beginners version and advanced version.  We pay her directly.  

[LMA]

It is her program.  She teaches a beginners version and advanced version.  We pay her directly.  

 

Oh, my goodness. You are not getting your money's worth and you are losing a lot of time. She is unprofessional and really owes money to all of you.

[Mom2TheTeam]

Not right at all. 

 

I don't tend to have be assertive, but if I was, I would try to speak to several of the other parents and go to her together demanding she either be on time or refund your money. I would definitely let her know that you will not only not give her a recommendation, but you will be sure to let other parents know that her tardiness is impacting the services and therefore definitely not worth what you are paying her.  Let her know that when you hear of someone looking for this type of class, you will be sure to steer them away from her. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Not right at all. 

 

I don't tend to have be assertive, but if I was, I would try to speak to several of the other parents and go to her together demanding she either be on time or refund your money. I would definitely let her know that you will not only not give her a recommendation, but you will be sure to let other parents know that her tardiness is impacting the services and therefore definitely not worth what you are paying her.  Let her know that when you hear of someone looking for this type of class, you will be sure to steer them away from her. 

 

We have done that and it has not sunk in yet to her.  It is really just a lesson for me.  Next time ask people who recommend things to us if the instructor is on time.  

[gardenmom5]

  She told us she does come from another job and getting from her town to this town was hard because of traffic.  I could of handle that until she said she gets off at three and comes from the town I live in.  I couldn't help myself and said I come from that town and I can get here on time.  We have to pay several months in advance and or I would start subtracting from it.   

she needs to either start the class later or expect her rep is going to get really bad and she'll have no students to teach next semester and get money from.  though it sounds like it doesn't matter what time it starts, she'd be late.  that is a big tip-off that she has no respect for other people (and their time).  

 

I assume she's her own boss?  let her learn the law of the marketplace and being "the boss".  if you're not professional - you fail.

 

can everyone go as a group and demand a pro-rated refund?  let her know since it's not important to her to be on time, with a warm room, no one wants to pay her for her services?

 

[Murphy101]

So do I.  I mean to a fault.  Really.  Drives me battier than just about anything.  I'll take a sailor swearing low pants wearing dude who hasn't bathed in a year so long as he doesn't show up late.

  

 

Amen!

 

Several of us have talked to her but it is not making a dent.  I have paid until February.  Recently, she asked us if we could recommend us to friends.  I said when you start showing up on time.

 

Not only would I have told her I can't recommend her, but at this point, I am actively discouraging because of this. That is absolutely unprofessional and flat out dishonest. And I would. You would know on FB and I'd let people know on any groups I was in to watch out. "Hey, you don't mind not ever getting an hour of instruction and never having any idea when or if she will show up and paying months in advance for that? This is your gal. Otherwise, you might consider going elsewhere if you can."

[Jkacz]

I voted 5 PM but that was before I read the additional information. If she leases the building and has control over the heat, she needs to be there early enough that the room is tolerable and she can start on time. If you paid by credit card, can you put in a dispute that you aren't receiving the services you contracted for? Another option is to request a refund of unused classes in return for not posting about your experience on Facebook, the Better Business Bureau, etc. Lastly, depending on your state, it may be fairly inexpensive to file in small claims court.

[Violet Crown]

LOL

 

Well come on, if everyone is ok with the situation and in the end they don't feel like they are being stiffed their paid time, no big deal (and no big deal regarding where they are from). But this doesn't sound like that.

I agree. But I was working off of the bare opening question at the time, and it did remind me of my own situation with an instructor.

[Guest submarines]

I voted 5 PM but that was before I read the additional information. If she leases the building and has control over the heat, she needs to be there early enough that the room is tolerable and she can start on time. If you paid by credit card, can you put in a dispute that you aren't receiving the services you contracted for? Another option is to request a refund of unused classes in return for not posting about your experience on Facebook, the Better Business Bureau, etc. Lastly, depending on your state, it may be fairly inexpensive to file in small claims court.

 

I voted 5pm as well, but then read the additional information and changed my vote. You can delete your vote, and vote again. ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I would be *really* mad if I was paying for an hour and only getting 30 minutes. REALLY mad. I am not easy to blow off. She *would* refund ALL of my money to compensate for my wasted time and that would be the end of that class. Period.

[Catwoman]

I would have demanded a full refund after the second time it happened. Why have you and the other parents tolerated this kind of nonsense???

[elegantlion]

If she is not listening to valid complaints, I would look into filing a BBB report and leaving negative feedback on her internet sites. I think yellow pages or something like that.

[M&M]

Insist on a refund, or rally the other parents to insist on a full hour of instruction even if it means her second class starts late.

[itsheresomewhere]

I would have demanded a full refund after the second time it happened. Why have you and the other parents tolerated this kind of nonsense???

 

Trust me I have been making my feelings known.  It took a few times to get a group of parents with me.  Some of the parents keep saying saying she is young and other crap. 

 

I did the math last night and thanks to the discount I was given for being referred, class is really only 4 dollars a class if you break it down.   DD has probably used more glue than that.  I really feel and hate to think this way but if the girl was living on her own and having to make this a way to pay for life, she would take this seriously.  

[itsheresomewhere]

If she is not listening to valid complaints, I would look into filing a BBB report and leaving negative feedback on her internet sites. I think yellow pages or something like that.

 

She doesn't do email, text or have a site.  Word of mouth is better than the BBB here.  

[SKL]

Well, I am not a stickler about minutes, but when I was grad school instructor, I don't believe I ever arrived late.  I probably didn't arrive very early either, since it was an evening class after work and the parking was down the street.  There were probably times when I breezed in just at the start time.  I didn't have to turn on the heat, though.  :)

 

I think it's unacceptable for her to be that late except if she has a personal emergency or something.

 

When I was in law school, I needed to write a thesis in order to graduate.  So I was taking a research class in my final semester and the dean was the prof.  Sometimes we would sit in class for the whole hour and he wouldn't show up.  Other times a secretary would come and dismiss us because he was running so far behind.  I wouldn't have cared really, except that I was nervous about getting credit for the course.  I had no desire to graduate a year later because of a prof who couldn't find time for his class.  They should have found a substitute - but on the positive side, at least they didn't cancel the class, because then I would have been in bigger trouble.

[dirty ethel rackham]

It would depend on the requirements for being prepared and ready to teach at the start time.  In the case you list where the building needs to be opened and the heat turned on, I think an hour before would be appropriate since it can take time to heat up the buiilding.  If all I have to do is open my tote bag and pull out my notes, I think 10 minutes beforehand is fine. 

[fairfarmhand]

Instructors should arrive in time to do whatever set up is necessary so that the class can BEGIN at 5 on the dot.

 

If the building requires no set up, 5 should be the latest that the instructor should be there.

[bolt.]

In most cases, the instruction should begin on time, or within 5 minutes. Whatever has to happen beforehand should be drawn into the instructor's lead-up window. If it's 'no prep, start talking' then it's fine to arrive at the beginning moment. Otherwise sufficient time should be allowed.

 

However #1: Occasional (non chronic) screw ups should be expected when dealing with humans.

 

However #2: In settings that feel more like gatherings, more like, "Yeah, I brought the teaching points, and we've decided to get this space and do this as a 'class' -- but we're still just us." -- When the fees are low and more like cost-sharing with slight compensation, therefore less like buying a certain number of instructional minutes... I've accepted some pretty wishy-washy offerings in groups like that, and it seems fine, if you were there from the start of the transition from gathering-to-class. I'd think about if I was paying a lot, or more of a token amount before assessing this from a money's worth angle.

[KungFuPanda]

At $4 a class, you are getting a great deal even for a 30 minute class. I would just start showing up at 5:30 and call it a half-hour class in my schedule.

 

I changed my vote BACK to 5 when I saw that it's $4 a class.

[In The Great White North]

She's "the boss", so she really needs to change the schedule to a time when she can get there, perhaps even have only the later class.