Alicia64 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 It was a beautiful nativity presentation: adorable little angels, awesome singers, whole nine yards. Then towards the end the "Dr." (pastor) brings in live donkeys, sheep, llamas, a camel. . . and a tiger in a cage! Then a male lion appears -- again in a cage, but still. And the lion was roaring and he didn't seem at all happy. This isn't common in the state I from because too many animals have escaped and mauled people -- so it's banned. But our new state allows it. What is this? It just seems odd to me that a beautiful nativity with singing angels isn't enough. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajudy Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I have been to a Christmas pageant that had sheep, donkeys, and wise men on camels, but lions and tigers? Yikes! :ohmy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Hm, well I could see the donkey, sheep and perhaps the camel if it was outdoors, but a lion and tiger? What in the world? Most live nativities around here have sheep and donkeys but these are generally outdoors. I have never seen live animals in a church building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Yes, there are groups that do that here outside, but all farm animals. No lions and tigers in a building! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emzhengjiu Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 We attended a church that arranged for a donkey and a camel to be part of a live nativity presentation in the sanctuary. It was incredible! But there's no way I would be comfortable with using wild animals such as lions and tigers. The risk is too high. Plus, it has to be stressful for animals unused to being handled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 Yes, all of it is indoors. In the church. I felt badly for the donkeys and camels having to be so close to the tiger and lion. My friend wants me to go again this year to see her kids sing. I want to see her kids, but I don't want to see the whole animal show again. I know it will offend her if I don't go. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 lions and tigers, oh my. I would understand sheep, and maybe a donkey or even a camel (I'd think you'd need a very large venue for that) but sometimes more is just . . . ."more". (and becomes "less".) eta: if the lions and tigers make you uncomfortable, tell her. "I'd love to come and hear your kids sing, but . . . . " maybe if enough people refuse to go because of the lions and tigers the pastor will get the message. etaa: the ONLY nativities (as in the kind you put on the table) I've ever seen with lions, or tigers were ones made in Africa or south asia where they actually live. (the church has been putting on a "nativity" display the first weekend in dec the last few years to which the community is invited. I think they had 150ish nativities this year.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Just because I'm curious... Was there any reason given for including a lion and a tiger? I mean, did he try to work them into a sermon illustration or something? I'm having a hard time making the leap from "born in a stable" to "welcome to the jungle." I don't blame you for feeling uncomfortable. I've been to nativities using live sheep and donkeys, but the scariest thing about those was the smell. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I love to support church, but i would not be ok with that. Lions and tigers, in my opinion, have no place in church. There is potential for danger, potential for cruelty in how the animal is displayed/caged, and I would not want my children associating church with the sad sight of large caged (scared or angry) animals. I would tell my friend the truth. Friend, I enjoy watching your children perform, however I have a problem with the use of the large caged animals. Do you think we could just get together and let your little ones put on a private show/sing a couple songs for my family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Because the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Because the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them? except - there isn't a wolf, or a goat (or even a leopard), or a calf for the other half of those pairs. and no where in that is a tiger. and in the meantime, they aren't tame or docile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 except - there isn't a wolf, or a goat (or even a leopard), or a calf for the other half of those pairs. and no where in that is a tiger. and in the meantime, they aren't tame or docile. I'm not agreeing with it. I'm just saying maybe that's why...and maybe they weren't so literal about it. I read this article recently about a drug dealer who had a lion, a tiger and a bear and he abused them. Now they live in an animal sanctuary together. I just kept thinking, "how did a drug dealer get them in the first place?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 The pastor seems to have thought that the baby Jesus was the wizard of Oz. Lions and Tigers (and bears) oh my! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Bishops and priests and deacons, oh my but never lions and tigers and bears. lol One year we did have two old poodles for sheep at the pageant.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 It was a beautiful nativity presentation: adorable little angels, awesome singers, whole nine yards. Then towards the end the "Dr." (pastor) brings in live donkeys, sheep, llamas, a camel. . . and a tiger in a cage! Then a male lion appears -- again in a cage, but still. And the lion was roaring and he didn't seem at all happy. This isn't common in the state I from because too many animals have escaped and mauled people -- so it's banned. But our new state allows it. What is this? It just seems odd to me that a beautiful nativity with singing angels isn't enough. Alley I love animals, but that is just plain odd. And potentially incredibly dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Because Jesus was born in a manger... in India? :huh: :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wordsmith Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Live lambs will make a nativity 1000x better. A live tiger? What??? No sane innkeeper would have one of those in his inn, that doesn't even make historical sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I would have had a reindeer, a moose, some elk. Regular deer, too, with flashing red prosthetic nose. Those are legit Christmas animals. I would try to get an actual pregnant woman and discretely induce labor with an IV. And wasnt Jesus like the size of a 6 month old when he was born? thats what all the paintings show. So as soon as the woman gave birth, I'd swap the newborn with a 6 month old. Hmmm, what else, what else? I'm sure I'll think of other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alef Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I've seen live domestic animals at a nativity, but lions and tigers never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 That's banana pants. Is there a balcony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I have seen live nativities with animals like sheep and cows and maybe a camel but never a lion or tiger. In fact, they were always domesticated animals that normally live around humans and they were never in cages and always outside. I think they are more popular in warm areas- I know I saw ones in Southern CA and also in FL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 And just who is cleaning all the animal poop from the area in front of the altar???? Seriously, I've seen a couple of nativities with donkeys, sheep, etc. Outdoors. Not my cup of tea, but kinda cool. But lions and tigers???? They're not even from the same parts of the world! They need different ecosystems! What kinda crack was that pastor smoking? That just makes no sense. And is dangerous and cruel and just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 And just who is cleaning all the animal poop from the area in front of the altar???? Seriously, I've seen a couple of nativities with donkeys, sheep, etc. Outdoors. Not my cup of tea, but kinda cool. But lions and tigers???? They're not even from the same parts of the world! They need different ecosystems! What kinda crack was that pastor smoking? That just makes no sense. And is dangerous and cruel and just awful. I think it's pretty darn cruel, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 His Bible version must be way more exciting than mine. I may have to hunt that one down. Unless things were really different back then, I don't think you would normally be finding much for Tigers in Bethlehem. I think the closest they came was the Caspian Tiger that was somewhat in Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Only herbivores near my baby's snooze spot, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd293 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I'm not sure there's any historical precedent for a lion or tiger at the Nativity. And if the lion and the tiger still need to be caged, then we might be getting ahead of ourselves in terms of acting out the wolf lying down with the lamb .... It goes with the whole 'showmanship' angle which is found in some Christian circles, I suppose. I wouldn't be happy with it in a secular play, let alone a church nativity. Domesticated farm animals are a little different, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Just because I'm curious... Was there any reason given for including a lion and a tiger? I mean, did he try to work them into a sermon illustration or something? I'm having a hard time making the leap from "born in a stable" to "welcome to the jungle." :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Maybe you could suggest a unicorn, as in, "I'd like to come, but my Personal Interpretation of the Nativity includes unicorns, and your pastor's vision just isn't broad enough for me." Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Is the pastor a former lion tamer? Is the organist a zookeeper? I'm just as curious about where the animals came from and how the church got them as I am why they were included in the show. And why was there a Dr. at the nativity? The Doctor might be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Is the pastor a former lion tamer? Is the organist a zookeeper? I'm just as curious about where the animals came from and how the church got them as I am why they were included in the show. And why was there a Dr. at the nativity? The Doctor might be interesting. Maybe it was Dr. Dolittle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakg Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 This thread has me in stitches of laughter. Sorry OP, no offence. I am trying to laugh quietly while everyone is asleep here! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I talk to the trees Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Maybe they're confusing the story of Christmas with Noah's Ark, and trying to have every animal represented? And renting two of everything was just too expensive? :confused: The church we attended when I was a teenager did a live nativity scene each year, with scenes all around the outside of the church. We had donkeys, sheep, and camels, but never any predators! I dreaded participating, though, because I was always chosen to be Gabriel appearing to Mary. Sounds like a great role, right? Except for the fact that Gabriel stood on a tiny platform ( a 16" x 16" square) attached to the church wall fifteen feet up! I was terrified of heights, and each 30 minute shift seemed to last days, especially since we angels were not allowed to lean back against the brick wall behind us because the director was worried about us snagging the fabric of our wings. The third year, I asked if I could be Mary- same scene, just safely on the ground. The director told me that that would be impossible because I have blonde hair, and "Angels have blonde hair and Mary has brown hair." <_< I quit that year. Edited because before I finish my coffee in the mornings, I apparently don't know the difference between a 4 x 4 square and a 16 x 16 square. Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Our church had a donkey and some chickens one year, but I can't imagine anything wild. What would the point be? I doubt any shepherds were bringing lions to see Baby Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 Well, these animals live -- in cages, I presume -- on the pastor's property which is not on church grounds. I'm guessing that he and his congregation thinks that it shows how great this pastor is in that he can "tame the wild beast." That's all I can think of. But, I agree, I think it's very cruel. And my friend thinks it's really cool. (I care about her, but we're mainly friends for the sake of the kids.) I've met the pastor and had an icky feeling when he looked at me. Thanks for everyone's feedback. I was wondering if it was just me. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 The church we attended when I was a teenager did a live nativity scene each year, with scenes all around the outside of the church. We had donkeys, sheep, and camels, but never any predators! I dreaded participating, though, because I was always chosen to be Gabriel appearing to Mary. Sounds like a great role, right? Except for the fact that Gabriel stood on a tiny platform ( a 16" x 16" square) attached to the church wall fifteen feet up! I was terrified of heights, and each 30 minute shift seemed to last days, especially since we angels were not allowed to lean back against the brick wall behind us because the director was worried about us snagging the fabric of our wings. The third year, I asked if I could be Mary- same scene, just safely on the ground. The director told me that that would be impossible because I have blonde hair, and "Angels have blonde hair and Mary has brown hair." <_< I quit that year. Thirty minutes fifteen feet up??? That would have freaked me out too!! Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Well, these animals live -- in cages, I presume -- on the pastor's property which is not on church grounds. I'm guessing that he and his congregation thinks that it shows how great this pastor is in that he can "tame the wild beast." That's all I can think of. But, I agree, I think it's very cruel. And my friend thinks it's really cool. (I care about her, but we're mainly friends for the sake of the kids.) I've met the pastor and had an icky feeling when he looked at me. Thanks for everyone's feedback. I was wondering if it was just me. Alley Wow. That is very appalling. I would stay far, far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Dd says you are missing the fox. RINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGADING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yucabird Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Well, these animals live -- in cages, I presume -- on the pastor's property which is not on church grounds. I'm guessing that he and his congregation thinks that it shows how great this pastor is in that he can "tame the wild beast." That's all I can think of. But, I agree, I think it's very cruel. And my friend thinks it's really cool. (I care about her, but we're mainly friends for the sake of the kids.) I've met the pastor and had an icky feeling when he looked at me. Thanks for everyone's feedback. I was wondering if it was just me. Alley (bold mine) This is off topic, but I'm currently reading The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, and your sentence gave me pause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 (bold mine) This is off topic, but I'm currently reading The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, and your sentence gave me pause. I know! Believe me, I've never forgotten how he was looking at me. I couldn't tell if he was sizing me up for. . . eventually donation purposes or that kind of thing. . . or if it was more than that. But he didn't make a good impression on me and that's entirely separate from the animals. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 That's pure dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Wow. Those are some high-maintenance pets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Our church does a live nativity service in the stable on the farm in DH's family. It was originally the Sunday before Christmas (excluding Christmas Eve or Christmas Night) but we have expanded to two nights to accommodate all who wanted to attend. We do have live animals (although only a nice cow, and some sheep in the barn and a few more sheep outside with the shepherds) and a lot of really cool music (both vocal and instrumental--our oldest daughter will be home in time to play again this year) and it is really a lot of fun and quite meaningful at the same time. On the other hand I'm not a fan of wild animals in cages and I agree with you that I'm not sure how they fit into a live nativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Dd says you are missing the fox. RINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGADING Now that I would go see. ;) Just kidding that would be sad to see cute foxes in cages. lol This church and pastor sound especially strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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