Talking to tutoring student's mom on Monday - wish me luck :(

[AimeeM]

.....

[mytwomonkeys]

Praying all goes well. It will be over soon. Stay strong! I'm so glad your husband will be there to help and support you!! (((Hugs)))

[Hen]

praying for you. Stand strong, your time and peace are not cheap commodities.

[Tap]

Luck

 

(But I will throw in some hugs :grouphug:​ and a prayer for a  strong backbone :smash:  for you too).

[Catwoman]

I'm glad you're taking a stand. Stay strong!

 

And remember that, while you're concerned about her and her dd, she is clearly not concerned about your family's health if she gave you a guilt trip because you won't watch her dd when she's sick. The woman is a user, and she has been taking tremendous advantage of your good nature and generosity.

[AimeeM]

I'm glad you're taking a stand. Stay strong!

 

And remember that, while you're concerned about her and her dd, she is clearly not concerned about your family's health if she gave you a guilt trip because you won't watch her dd when she's sick. The woman is a user, and she has been taking tremendous advantage of your good nature and generosity.

 

I know. The kicker is that she knows I have a medically fragile child and it's not like this wasn't something we had talked about.

 

I told my husband last night, that if I weren't so dead set on keeping nose out of things when I'm not ASKED to be involved, I would wonder what the educational neglect laws entail... but I know it isn't my place - that was just my heart talking over my head, lol.

[Cinder]

:grouphug:  I hope it goes well for you. More encouragement to stay strong. Don't let her pull you into an argument; just state your case and be firm.  :grouphug:

[dirty ethel rackham]

I know. The kicker is that she knows I have a medically fragile child and it's not like this wasn't something we had talked about.

 

I told my husband last night, that if I weren't so dead set on keeping nose out of things when I'm not ASKED to be involved, I would wonder what the educational neglect laws entail... but I know it isn't my place - that was just my heart talking over my head, lol.

 

Why isn't it your place?  If you have knowledge of educational neglect that severe, why wouldn't you report it?  I am not big on reporting other homeschoolers, but I cringe when I hear of people who are refusing to educate their children.  It sounds like more than educational neglect from what you have mentioned.

 

[AimeeM]

It isn't a case for education neglect, technically, I don't think. She does provide "educational materials" for her dd - like Time4Learning - but there is no oversight and the girl was simply pressing buttons.

[Chris in VA]

Will say a prayer that all goes well and that the child has what she needs.

[AHASRADA]

I've been following this thread, eager to hear the outcome, since I can see myself caught in a similar predicament.

 

Nothing as extreme as your situation, but I do after school tutoring in my home. I regularly have students (parents) cancel on me at the last minute, ask if the child can come 15, 20, 30 min. late when they are already supposed to be here, and just not show up at all.

 

They are always very apologetic, often including a sob story. I am gracious, though annoyed, but dh is furious that they walk all over me. He is pushing me to institute a late cancellation/no-show fee to try and curb that frustrating scenario, but it's hard to face the parents and imagine trying to enforce such a policy.

 

I wish you luck in what I know will be a very trying and uncomfortable situation.

[fraidycat]

Good luck. Stay strong.

[Catwoman]

I've been following this thread, eager to hear the outcome, since I can see myself caught in a similar predicament.

 

Nothing as extreme as your situation, but I do after school tutoring in my home. I regularly have students (parents) cancel on me at the last minute, ask if the child can come 15, 20, 30 min. late when they are already supposed to be here, and just not show up at all.

 

They are always very apologetic, often including a sob story. I am gracious, though annoyed, but dh is furious that they walk all over me. He is pushing me to institute a late cancellation/no-show fee to try and curb that frustrating scenario, but it's hard to face the parents and imagine trying to enforce such a policy.

 

I wish you luck in what I know will be a very trying and uncomfortable situation.

If they are able to face you after telling you their phony sob stories, why would you have the slightest problem standing up to them? :confused:

[QueenCat]

Know you've got a bunch of friends backing you up!

[Word Nerd]

Don't think of it as "having a confrontation." Think of it as "talking to her." You can do it!

[unsinkable]

I've been following this thread, eager to hear the outcome, since I can see myself caught in a similar predicament.

 

Nothing as extreme as your situation, but I do after school tutoring in my home. I regularly have students (parents) cancel on me at the last minute, ask if the child can come 15, 20, 30 min. late when they are already supposed to be here, and just not show up at all.

 

They are always very apologetic, often including a sob story. I am gracious, though annoyed, but dh is furious that they walk all over me. He is pushing me to institute a late cancellation/no-show fee to try and curb that frustrating scenario, but it's hard to face the parents and imagine trying to enforce such a policy.

 

I wish you luck in what I know will be a very trying and uncomfortable situation.

I would charge in advance and come up with a cancellation policy.

[zoobie]

I've been following this thread, eager to hear the outcome, since I can see myself caught in a similar predicament.

 

Nothing as extreme as your situation, but I do after school tutoring in my home. I regularly have students (parents) cancel on me at the last minute, ask if the child can come 15, 20, 30 min. late when they are already supposed to be here, and just not show up at all.

 

They are always very apologetic, often including a sob story. I am gracious, though annoyed, but dh is furious that they walk all over me. He is pushing me to institute a late cancellation/no-show fee to try and curb that frustrating scenario, but it's hard to face the parents and imagine trying to enforce such a policy.

 

I wish you luck in what I know will be a very trying and uncomfortable situation.

The OG tutor we are using emails a monthly schedule and requires advance payment. She has a 24 hour cancelation policy. She's waived that for illness, but I text/email her ASAP and only cancel for serious things (stomach flu, appendicitis...). Our old music teacher required prepayment each quarter. If you showed up 15 mins late, you lost 15 mins of the lesson. The old saying is true--no one can take advantage of you without your permission!

 

Good luck, Aimee. I hope the conversation goes smoothly.

[kiwik]

I've been following this thread, eager to hear the outcome, since I can see myself caught in a similar predicament.

 

Nothing as extreme as your situation, but I do after school tutoring in my home. I regularly have students (parents) cancel on me at the last minute, ask if the child can come 15, 20, 30 min. late when they are already supposed to be here, and just not show up at all.

 

They are always very apologetic, often including a sob story. I am gracious, though annoyed, but dh is furious that they walk all over me. He is pushing me to institute a late cancellation/no-show fee to try and curb that frustrating scenario, but it's hard to face the parents and imagine trying to enforce such a policy.

 

I wish you luck in what I know will be a very trying and uncomfortable situation.

It is fairly common to ask people to pay for afterschool classes in advance and if the miss bad luck though could you just have a term fee like for gym or martial arts? They are more likely to turn up and be on time too.

[Catwoman]

I'm thinking of you today, Aimee, and hoping it goes well with the mom.

 

Try not to be nervous -- you'll feel much better once it's over! :grouphug:

[Truscifi]

So how did it go?

[Catwoman]

I'm hoping for an update, too! :)

[Chris in VA]

Popping in for an update--hope it went well.

[AmyontheFarm]

I hope it went well also!

 

[AimeeM]

Didn't get to talk to her - she ran out as soon as she grabbed the kiddo. She "had to go".

She only came in to give me a check, which she wrote for more than the agreed upon price. I told her that this was more than we had agreed upon, for the next month at least - I didn't want her to accuse me of going back on my end when I talk to her. When I told her, she ripped up the check and said "thank God Al! We can eat this week!".

This is NOT going to be easy. I'm... gullible... and I'm so glad Tony will be here with me this afternoon.

 

So, for the past week or so, she has been running off quickly when she gets A. I didn't want to warn her about having a talk, but I think I might have to since she never seems to stay for more than two seconds before she "has to be somewhere" - BUT I don't want to give her time to come up with anything else, regarding what she can say to me to turn it in her direction. I *really* feel like telling her ahead of time will only lead to her being able to come up with another... reason, tale, whatever.

 

She knows something is up. Has to. Since the blow up about bringing A sick, she has been running off at pick up.

[QueenCat]

Insist she stay at pick up. Tell her "We need to talk today, or child cannot come tomorrow".

[AimeeM]

Okay. So, when she hands me the check (which she is supposed to bring today at pick up), and says she "has to go", I tell her that we need to talk and if she runs off, A can't come tomorrow - and if she declines hand her back her check (which pays for the next month)... which I assume would infer an end to the agreement/arrangement?

[Amy in NH]

It is time to put it in writing.  Hand her the letter as she runs out the door.

[elfgivas]

another way to deal with it is to give her a policy and rate increase letter in an envelope at pick up. 

this is what our music teacher did recently.  for her, she often doesn't see the parents every week, as we drop off and pick up. 

she did briefly say that she hasn't raised rates in several years and needs to, and she did institute a cancellation and sick child policy.

but she DIDN'T explain or apologise in the letter.  it was a very cheerful, very business like "here's our new policy and rates".

 

good luck!

ann

[elfgivas]

so she is paying you for november today? 

 

you could write a letter about your holiday schedule, and a reminder about your policies, including sick kids, and the new rates.  

 

do you want to continue to work with this child/mom combo?  if yes, then great.  If no, then this is the time to say you are moving in a new direction and can only care for the child until the end of october.  that is two weeks notice.  

 

fwiw,

ann 

[Twigs]

Okay. So, when she hands me the check (which she is supposed to bring today at pick up), and says she "has to go", I tell her that we need to talk and if she runs off, A can't come tomorrow - and if she declines hand her back her check (which pays for the next month)... which I assume would infer an end to the agreement/arrangement?

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: for your situation.

 

You cannot assume that she will infer anything. You must be straight forward and blunt with her. Say exactly what you want her to know.

 

You can do this!

 

quote removed

 

 

Best wishes

[mytwomonkeys]

Really, I mean this lovingly, but you need to take control of this situation. Don't let her leave. Tell her to have a seat & you won't be more than five minutes. Do not be timid. Do not be gullible. Stop feeling bad. Take care of yourself. You are not the only person God can use to meet this family's needs. And I don't mean that snarky, as I tell myself that when I feel bad creating boundaries within my own life. It is okay to take care of yourself and not feel badly about it. Expect her to give you a guilt trip, as she knows it works in her favor normally. Predetermine in your mind now that this is the best thing for you and your family. That child will be okay. The mother will figure something out, she is definitely resourceful like that! :)

[FriedClams]

Really, I mean this lovingly, but you need to take control of this situation. Don't let her leave. Tell her to have a seat & you won't be more than five minutes. Do not be timid. Do not be gullible. Stop feeling bad. Take care of yourself. You are not the only person God can use to meet this family's needs. And I don't mean that snarky, as I tell myself that when I feel bad creating boundaries within my own life. It is okay to take care of yourself and not feel badly about it. Expect her to give you a guilt trip, as she knows it works in her favor normally. Predetermine in your mind now that this is the best thing for you and your family. That child will be okay. The mother will figure something out, she is definitely resourceful like that! :)

Could not agree more.

 

Take charge of your life. Do not be this woman's emotional hostage for another day. You're tired of it. She doesn't care. Your family is suffering from this. Handle it today.

[AimeeM]

Okay. So in the event that she again jets and I can't force her to stay, I've drafted a letter. The letter outlines the new rates, the sick policy, and how I reached my new rate (i.e. amount of food consumed during the day, outings, local tutoring and child care rates, etc), and it specifies that the new rate starts for the month of December, and that if she finds that she can't make the rate, November will the last month.

Sound okay? It also states that the rate is non-negotiable and I will not be available to discuss it.

 

If she starts running and insists she can't sit down, I'll just hand her the letter and be done with it. I'd prefer to do this face-to-face though.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

If she starts running and insists she can't sit down, I'll just hand her the letter and be done with it. I'd prefer to do this face-to-face though.

I would be willing to bet the price of a dinner out that she is running out quickly just so that you can't do this face-to-face.  

[AimeeM]

I would be willing to bet the price of a dinner out that she is running out quickly just so that you can't do this face-to-face.  

 

Lol - I have no doubt that you're right. Ah well, a letter is probably better. I'm a pretty impulsive person and I often say too much, when I'm upset, instead of "just enough".

[Dandelion]

Okay. So in the event that she again jets and I can't force her to stay, I've drafted a letter. The letter outlines the new rates, the sick policy, and how I reached my new rate (i.e. amount of food consumed during the day, outings, local tutoring and child care rates, etc), and it specifies that the new rate starts for the month of December, and that if she finds that she can't make the rate, November will the last month.

Sound okay? It also states that the rate is non-negotiable and I will not be available to discuss it.

 

If she starts running and insists she can't sit down, I'll just hand her the letter and be done with it. I'd prefer to do this face-to-face though.

 

I think that's a good way to handle it, if you really want to continue working with this person.

 

That said, I wouldn't want to care for the child of someone who treats me this way, and refuses to talk to me.  If she can't be bothered to stick around for a few minutes to talk to the person responsible for caring for her child (??), then that's really not someone you want to be working with IMO.

 

Personally, I'd hand her a one-week notice letter at the next pick-up, and be done with it. 

[KungFuPanda]

This thread reminds me of the one where the lady kept running the OP off the sidewalk and we all tuned in to see what she'd do next :-)

[Word Nerd]

Can you make it effective beginning Nov. 1? It's only the middle of October, and that's a lot to tolerate until December, considering how little you're making when you account for the food expense.

[Cinder]

She knows something is up. Has to. Since the blow up about bringing A sick, she has been running off at pick up.

 

I agree she must know something's up. Her running out is quite a change from your earlier description of her "needing" to sit and talk with you at pick up every day.

 

:grouphug:  I think the policy letter is a good idea anyway.

[Miss Mousie]

Okay. So in the event that she again jets and I can't force her to stay, I've drafted a letter. The letter outlines the new rates, the sick policy, and how I reached my new rate (i.e. amount of food consumed during the day, outings, local tutoring and child care rates, etc), and it specifies that the new rate starts for the month of December, and that if she finds that she can't make the rate, November will the last month.

Sound okay? It also states that the rate is non-negotiable and I will not be available to discuss it.

 

If she starts running and insists she can't sit down, I'll just hand her the letter and be done with it. I'd prefer to do this face-to-face though.

 

I don't recall having read the background of this situation, but to chime in just on this letter, I would omit the justification of your new rates.  They are what they are, period.  If she doesn't think the service is worth the price, she needs to make other arrangements.

 

Do you ever demand the particulars of pricing at the dry cleaner or the mechanic or your favorite restaurant?  No - you either willingly pay what they charge or you don't.

[AimeeM]

Can you make it effective beginning Nov. 1? It's only the middle of October, and that's a lot to tolerate until December, considering how little you're making when you account for the food expense.

 

I'm sorry. I should have said the middle of November. She pays through the 15th of every month, so October 15 - November 15 would be the next "term" that she's paying for today.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I don't recall having read the background of this situation, but to chime in just on this letter, I would omit the justification of your new rates.  They are what they are, period.  If she doesn't think the service is worth the price, she needs to make other arrangements.

 

Do you ever demand the particulars of pricing at the dry cleaner or the mechanic or your favorite restaurant?  No - you either willingly pay what they charge or you don't.

 

This.  Do not justify your rates.  NO ONE ELSE WHO OFFERS A SERVICE DOES THIS!   No mechanic, no daycare provider, no music teacher.  NO ONE.

 

Your eagerness to justify your position, tells me that you are way too defensive and giving her power over you.  Stop.  Stand in the "wonder woman position" for 2 minutes prior to her pickup time -- hands on hips, feet shoulder-width apart, and chin up.  Feel the power!  Don't laugh. (I saw this on a TEDTalk -- it works). Give her the letter/contract with new rates or just give her a termination letter.

 

She will find another solution and you will get back your life.

 

hth,

K

K

[AimeeM]

I don't recall having read the background of this situation, but to chime in just on this letter, I would omit the justification of your new rates.  They are what they are, period.  If she doesn't think the service is worth the price, she needs to make other arrangements.

 

Do you ever demand the particulars of pricing at the dry cleaner or the mechanic or your favorite restaurant?  No - you either willingly pay what they charge or you don't.

 

Well, the only reason I was adding it is because when our dd has attended private schools in the past, they do offer some amount of justification for tuition increases: "due to the increased cost of x,y,z, the need to hire additional teachers, the need for additional space, we are increasing the tuition for this school year, effective on *this* date".

I also need her to know, which is in the outline of the letter, that I can't continue past that point unless she pays up for the curricula I told her I needed for her daughter - right now I'm running on fumes because I'm working, past my normal hours, trying to pull from other resources, when none of them are really suitable for teaching a dyslexic 9 year old; I have nothing age/skill appropriate for her and I did tell mom that. Since it's an additional expense, outside my monthly fee, she needs to know that I can't continue past that point without those items.

... and I was trying to lay it all out there for her, so that she had no reason at all to text, call, or e-mail me with questions as to "why"... because she will, lol.

[AimeeM]

This.  Do not justify your rates.  NO ONE ELSE WHO OFFERS A SERVICE DOES THIS!   No mechanic, no daycare provider, no music teacher.  NO ONE.

 

Your eagerness to justify your position, tells me that you are way too defensive and giving her power over you.  Stop.  Stand in the "wonder woman position" for 2 minutes prior to her pickup time -- hands on hips, feet shoulder-width apart, and chin up.  Feel the power!  Don't laugh. (I saw this on a TEDTalk -- it works). Give her the letter/contract with new rates or just give her a termination letter.

 

She will find another solution and you will get back your life.

 

hth,

K

K

Yeah... I need to work on the whole "wonder woman" thing. I know it.

Pick up tme is random. I'm not sure I wouldn't be able to laugh as my neighbors walked by and saw me in my wonder woman stance, for possibly 30 minutes, since I'm not sure on any given day exactly what time pick up will be, lol. Always between 3:30 and 4:30... unless she has a meeting that runs later...

Bah humbug.

 

Okay ladies, so I need to omit the reasons for the rate increase, and just include the actual increase, effective date, sick policy, and that I also can't continue past middle of November (our next term) if she doesn't either order the necessary items, or allow me to order them.

[Dandelion]

You said:

"I'm averaging $1/hr."

"I'm running on fumes."

"I'm working past my normal hours."

 

Those are just a few of the issues you've outlined in this thread and the previous thread on this topic.  Even if you write up your policies, and this woman agrees to pay your new rates, I doubt things are going to change substantially.  Many of the frustrations (how she treats you, her lack of communication with you, the haggling over educational materials for her DD, etc.) are still going to be there.  And once she's paying you more, she may feel entitled to more of your time and energy - which could lead to a whole new slate of issues.

 

This woman has done nothing but take advantage of you, and I don't see any indication (based on what you've described) that she will change.  Do yourself, and your family, a favor and walk away from this. 

[mathmarm]

This seems to be hard on you so here is a big hug :grouphug: .

If you are willing to continue watching this kid for better pay, then I agree with the others who say don't detail why or justify your rates increasing. Just increase them and give her an informative letter about the changes being made and when. But not only would I give her a letter detailing my new standards but I include a copy of a contract that must be dated, signed and returned to me prior to dropping off the child again for another days care and supervision. So if she gets the letter Tues and wants her kid watched on Wed, she'd better bring that contract a few minutes earlier and hand deliver it to me, I would check to be sure it was in order, sign it myself, make her a copy for her records and then accept the child inside. If we couldn't get through that 10 minute ordeal without ado, the child would have to spend that very Wednesday elsewhere.

 

As for actually catching the mom? I would keep the children indoors with me starting from 2:45pm just to be sure. Lock the front or side door and do not let the kids go outside. This will effectively force the mom to come to the door and present you with the chance to insist, that if she wants to bring her kid back again on another day, then she must come in and listen to what I have to say. If she is too busy to spend 5-30 minutes understanding your new policy there is no reason for her to clear her schedule so that she has time to drop the kid off at your home,

 

A big :grouphug: , this is clearly a tough situation that you are in and you must be very kindhearted to fight to try and reach an amicable end for all parties involved.

[Hannah]

  And once she's paying you more, she may feel entitled to more of your time and energy - which could lead to a whole new slate of issues.

 

This woman has done nothing but take advantage of you, and I don't see any indication (based on what you've described) that she will change.  Do yourself, and your family, a favor and walk away from this. 

 

This.

 

She's manipulative and disrespectful and that's not going to change however much she pays you.

[AimeeM]

You said:

"I'm averaging $1/hr."

"I'm running on fumes."

"I'm working past my normal hours."

 

Those are just a few of the issues you've outlined in this thread and the previous thread on this topic.  Even if you write up your policies, and this woman agrees to pay your new rates, I doubt things are going to change substantially.  Many of the frustrations (how she treats you, her lack of communication with you, the haggling over educational materials for her DD, etc.) are still going to be there.  And once she's paying you more, she may feel entitled to more of your time and energy - which could lead to a whole new slate of issues.

 

This woman has done nothing but take advantage of you, and I don't see any indication (based on what you've described) that she will change.  Do yourself, and your family, a favor and walk away from this. 

 

I know.

[Catwoman]

For heaven's sake, just quit.

 

Julie and others have already given you the best possible advice.

 

You are your own worst enemy here. Every single thing you have posted tells us that the mom is intentionally taking advantage of you, and that she will continue to do so, no matter what kind of letter you hand her as she runs out the door.

 

Don't worry about the child. That mom is more than capable of finding another sucker to fall for her sob story. You're not the first one, and you won't be the last. The mom is a pro.

 

Don't you realize that she intentionally wrote you that check for more money than you'd agreed on??? If she really wanted to pay the higher amount, she wouldn't have immediately torn up the check and made her phony comment about how now they could afford to eat. :rolleyes: She would have insisted that you cash the check because she knew you were worth the extra money and she wanted or of pay you what you're worth.

 

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but if you keep dealing with that mom, you will deserve every last bit of stress, overwork, and underpayment you get, because everyone has warned you about her -- most importantly, your own dh.

 

Seriously. Just quit.

[AimeeM]

Yes, yes, yes I know. I really do.

 

I've given notice at one job, so many years ago. Other than that, I've never quit anything in my life. I never imagined it would be this hard - and it's not any sort of attachment that makes it hard (I've thought and thought about this) - it's the actual act of saying "no" and quitting. For the life of me, I have no clue WHY it's so hard for me. Please do not think I don't know this and that I don't know what I need to do - I do know. I very much know.