So this happened and I don't know what to think...

[idnib]

Don't quote, I might delete:

 

I go to the library once/week with DD while my son is in a nearby class. We are there for around 2 hours and spend most of the time in the children's section. It's a good-sized library in a progressive city. I know all the children's librarians by sight but not name and the atmosphere is casual.

 

Today I walked into the children's section with DD and there was a new librarian there. I don't think she was new to librarianship, just new to the city, the branch, or the department. 

 

This particular library keeps a few animals in tanks near the children's desk. As DD made her way over the look at them, the librarian asked me if I needed any help. I said no thanks, I know where to get what I need. She pointed to the picture books for DD. I said thank you, but DD has a backlog of books she needs to get through (meaning we need to read to her) before we're getting more. (DD currently has about 15 books checked out that I've already renewed once each, from different libraries.) She gave me a look and said, "Why don't you read them to her?It just takes a few minutes a day. It's important to read to kids. It makes them more successful. You should read books and have books available to children in the home."

 

Now, I'm a brown person  :D,  but I rarely experience direct personal racism. I'm not saying it doesn't exist (I've experienced it). I'm not saying institutional racism doesn't exist. I'm just saying I don't often notice racism personally directed at me. It could be that I'm just clueless.  :D  Anyway, the whole thing felt very icky to me. I felt like she had read a pamphlet that told her minorities need to increase reading in the home or something, and she was going to do her part. There was another librarian of the "brown type"  :D  who sees us each week. Her mouth was open and she was staring at her screen, frozen and embarrassed. I'm having trouble conveying the tone here, but it was all very patronizing. I kept thinking, "Lady, I just dropped 30 pounds of books in the book drop before heading over here! I read until I'm hoarse and then I put on audiobooks!"

 

I don't know if I experienced racism or not. It feels like I was pre-judged and harshly. I think in her mind I was automatically grouped into "people who don't read or go to libraries very much" as soon as she saw me, and as a librarian, she had a role in fixing that.

 

I've decided librarians who are approaching a patron for the first time should first ask if a patron has been there before and suss out their level of usage before making suggestions.  :)

 

We did get our revenge, though. For some reason I had trouble with my card at the self-checkout so I had to go to the desk. She looked up our account manually and I think she was surprised by the volume, quality, and topics of the books, thanks in large part to SWB and this board!  :hurray:

[SKL]

That would have offended me, not because of skin color, but because she is an idiot to presume anything about anybody.  Or to admit such a presumption out loud.  Bah.

 

I would have been tempted to say, "she's going to read them herself as soon as she gets done with [insert heady tome here].  ;)

[gardenmom5]

she may also have said the same thing to any parent.  I'm quite fair - and I've heard some doozies in the same vein directed at me.

 

some people are just that . . . tactless? clueless?  idiotic?  stooopiiid.

 

eta: the last time that happened to me - I had a very enjoyable vent to the person's manager about the business they lost because of the twit.  You might want to consider submitting your suggestion (of new librarians NOT making assumptions about visitors) to the head librarian.  (they may be wondering why people who deal with her are unhappy. . . . . )

 

[T'smom]

She was an idiot to presume anything. I'm sorry you had an experience that made you feel icky. When that kind of thing happens to me, (not racism but judgments about parenting) it throws me off for the whole day!

 

If something was to be said in her defense, she might have just dealt with 100 families only checking out movies. When I worked in the library, there were LOTS of those.

[T'smom]

Dp sorry!

[Lisa R.]

Well, I think you handled the situation well. If you'd come up with a sharp retort or showed defensiveness, that could have simply reinforced another ridiculous stereotype she may have had. Instead, you held your head high, and then she inadvertently saw your library booklist. You weren't showing off; it simply happened as you needed help and she actually performed her job she was hired to do. Hopefully, she felt sufficiently foolish as she saw your library history and realized her ignorant comment to you.

 

She looked ignorant, and you kept it classy. 

[Joanne]

Yikes.

That's absurd. Even if her deal is a super advocacy for literacy - across the board - a trained professional should know better than to do anything that HINTS towards racism.

 

I'm assuming Librarian is white?

 

My first guess would be racism, also. I think I'd be making a call tomorrow, because it's important she be trained and intervened upon.

[jelbe5]

It may very well have been racism - it may very well have been something she would have said to any parent. It was a patronizing, tactless thing to say all the way around.

 

I think you should have said the following out loud.

 

"Lady, I just dropped 30 pounds of books in the book drop before heading over here! I read until I'm hoarse and then I put on audiobooks!"

 

I'm glad she saw your account and I hope she learned a lesson. You were way more gracious to her then she was to you!

[chiguirre]

Well, hopefully she feels like a total idiot after seeing your account and will curb her enthusiasm next time.

[Tranquility7]

Hmm, I guess I could honestly imagine a librarian saying the same thing to pretty much any patron, especially given that you implied she misunderstood your statement about DD needing to "get through her stack of books" before you get her more.  Part of a librarian's job is to encourage reading, right?  And for a children's librarian, that includes parents reading to their kids.  I would expect they would encourage that at every opportunity.  I'd personally laugh it off, but then again, it's really hard to offend me.

[justasque]

I have witnessed a disturbing amount of librarian racism of the "you are brown therefore you don't belong here and we're going to make you feel very, very unwelcome until you leave, because this public library is not for *you*" variety.  

So racism of the "hey, you are brown, how would you like to check out some books" variety is progress, when you look at it that way.  ;-)

[RanchGirl]

I would not consider that racism, but I would certainly have responded with something like "thanks for your feedback, I'll give it all the consideration it's due."  One should always give random unsolicited feedback from perfect strangers exactly the amount of consideration it deserves.

 

If this gal is targeting only minorities with her condescending advice, I'm sure her co-worker will address it (and likely wouldn't have been visibly stunned as she was).

 

P.S.  I'm not brown and my librarians have accused me of stealing.  Insulting my parenting would be a step up!  I don't want to over generalize (especially in a possible racism thread!), but a lot of librarians are just rude and snotty.

[Arcadia]

she may also have said the same thing to any parent. I'm quite fair - and I've heard some doozies in the same vein directed at me.

:iagree:

I have open racism directed at me for being asian. However I had librarians who are snotty to everyone regardless of skin tone. They do their job but are forever patronising. Some have worked in the city libraries for more than 20 years.

[SKL]

Next time someone like her offers you condescending advice, ask if that was her personal experience (in this case, did her mom read a ton to her when she was five) and if (when) she says no, look her up and down and slowly say, "I see."  ;)

[idnib]

Yes, like I said in the title and the content of the original post, I really don't know what to think. Racist? Clueless? Overly enthusiastic? On a literacy bender?

 

Joanne: Yes, the librarian was white and in her early- to mid-60s, if I had to guess.  Of the two children's librarians  I see the most, one is black and the other (I think) is Japanese. It's actually a fairly diverse place in terms of race. 

 

[Tammi K]

You handled that with a lot more grace than I would have. Sorry you had a yucky day.

[SKL]

Also, why would she think that a person bringing her child to the library needed to be told books are good for kids?  Duh?  That's like a waitress telling her patrons their kids need to eat.  ???

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug: 

[Snickerdoodle]

Next time just say, "No hablo ingles."   

 

JUST KIDDING!  lol

 

I think this is something I'd expect any librarian to say to pretty much any parent.  I think you may have been a little sensitive.   

 

Don't get me wrong.  I think a lot of librarians have lost their marbles, at least the ones I've dealt with.

[Catwoman]

I wouldn't have thought of the comments as racist, but I would have considered them to be condescending, even though she probably thought she was being encouraging and helpful.

 

I suspect she would have said something similar to any other mom in the library.

[Snickerdoodle]

Just to be fair, the librarians at our new library are very nice and somewhat helpful.

[redsquirrel]

I don't think you can know if her idiocy was racially based or of a more garden variety unless you have seen her interact with other patrons. A sample size of one makes it difficult to tell. But, it was very rude and I am sorry.

 

You know your reality best. If you feel in your gut that her response was based on race, then name it for what it was. But regardless of her reasons, she was wrong and now she knows it. I hope she is thinking about what happened and does better tomorrow.

[gardenmom5]

Also, why would she think that a person bringing her child to the library needed to be told books are good for kids?  Duh?  That's like a waitress telling her patrons their kids need to eat.  ???

our children's section has a few too many computers for playing games.  I don't take my son there as he makes a beeline for those computers.  I reserve online what I want - and we read at home.

 

I've met some idiot librarians.  (I guess they didn't get the memo they chose to work in a *service* job.  or perhaps they need a dictionary..)

[Arcadia]

Also, why would she think that a person bringing her child to the library needed to be told books are good for kids? 

There are some parents who borrow only Nickelodeon DVDS and no books every trip to the library. They might have plenty of books at home but the librarians won't know and they are suppose to encourage book borrowing.  Some kids come to the library to play computer games while their parents take a break and they borrow nothing.  One library we went to have reading volunteers every Sunday for a drop in program where the high school volunteers will do the reading to the individual kids, kind of like reading buddies.  Some libraries are sadly treated like free childcare for young kids.

The librarians aggressively promote reading to kids but they do it in an encouraging tone and not a patronizing or condescending tone.

[swellmomma]

She was an idiot to presume anything. I'm sorry you had an experience that made you feel icky. When that kind of thing happens to me, (not racism but judgments about parenting) it throws me off for the whole day!

 

If something was to be said in her defense, she might have just dealt with 100 families only checking out movies. When I worked in the library, there were LOTS of those.

 

This is primarily what we used our library for, and in the city to check out video games too, though we did check out many books too, there was often times when it was only videos, but given the multiple thousand books we own at home that is not such a big deal.

as for the librarian in the OP I would not see it as a racist thing that she said just an idiotic thing.  She was presumptuous to assume you didn't read aloud because you said you didn't need books for your dd not because of your skin color.  It would have offended me as well.

[creekland]

I'm leaning toward not racist and just a "new" librarian not understanding your family based upon the experiences with many current families.  At our school, it can be tough to get kids to read, and one really does see the correlation between those who like to read or don't and their grades/test scores.  Color doesn't matter a hoot.

 

Since she is new, she really should learn to get to know her "customers" better before offering advice, but I suspect her co-worker is filling her in on that.

[kroe1]

I did not get racism at all out of this. I did get idiot who assumes a person walking into a library does not read to her children. Hello........I am in the library!

[bettyandbob]

I am not brown , but I have experienced condescending librarians. I have experienced enough condescending librarians that i believe a this is one type of personality attracted to the field. So, your experience did not make me think racism. It could have been racism. It could be that she is just condescending.

 

I would contact someone managing the library system and let them know how the librarian made you, a person with brown skin, feel.

[Carrie12345]

I don't know what her thought process was, but I I do know I always wish I could think faster on my feet! I'd like to think that my response to "Why don't you read them to her?It just takes a few minutes a day. It's important to read to kids. It makes them more successful. You should read books and have books available to children in the home," would be "Is there a reason you believe I *don't*?"

 

(Says a white girl with no racism experience, but faced a lot of assumptions as a former young mom who looked even younger than she was.)

[....]

I am not brown , but I have experienced condescending librarians. 

 

Me, too.  :(  There's a library in our city that I absolutely refuse to use.  They have security guards inside and they follow you around.  It's extremely obnoxious.  Also, there's never anyone in the library, except the employees (I guess it annoys other people, too).  The last time I was there, the security guard followed me all over the juvenile fiction section.  OK, I'm NOT going to steal Carry On, Mr. Bowditch!   :confused1:    

[nevergiveup]

Well,  good heavens.  I am caucasian and have had the exact same thing said to me and I took no offense.  Why are people so quick to assume racism or poor parenting? 

[Danestress]

I think it is inappropriate for a librarian to lecture any parent this way. There are ways to be enthusiastic about books and reading without being patronizing, and if she doesn't know how to so that, they need to move her to a different department.

 

I would be temped to ask her, calmly and evenly, if the color if my skin was part of the overall picture that made her think I needed a lecture in the importance of reading to kids. She won't admit it, of course, but that is probably an experience she needs to have.

 

Eta: I am not sure I could resist the urge to go in and give her a very friendly and chatty lecture myself. "A lot if white people have this idea that people of color don't really read to their children, but it isn't really true in many cases, so you should consider asking people like me questions about reading before you start instructing us." Smile. Pause. Friendly face.

 

She is not in authority over you just because she works in a library, so is she wants to lecture you there is no reason you can't lecture her back, and even if she denies that race was involved, it doesn't really matter. Very few mothers feel lectures like this from total strangers are welcome, and she needs to recognize that.

[bettyandbob]

Well, good heavens. I am caucasian and have had the exact same thing said to me and I took no offense. Why are people so quick to assume racism or poor parenting?

If you experience racism, I think it would be easy to feel that general condescending behavior has racism at its root. Some condescending behavior does. I don't know anything about this particular librarian. We would need to know how many white she had been condescending to in the last month versus brown people to show a pattern. And control for other factors, like manner of dress (maybe the woman hate flip flops or t shirts) .

 

I didn't jump to racism based on the story, but my personal life experience does not involve racism. I do understand why the op could see the possibility of racism in the actions of the librarian. Most racism is subtle hard to discern as racism if taken alone. However, if I were a person of color I think I'd probably be a lot more sensitive and have more of a gut response to day to day subtle behaviors rooted in racism.

[plansrme]

I am white and have a graduate degree, and our children's librarians still treat me like I am an idiot. I resist the urge to suggest we compare SAT scores, barely. But in your case, maybe it is racist, maybe it isn't. None of us has enough data to make a determination. I don't know which would be preferable: its being racism, about which she could be educated and overcome, or her just being a witch, which is unlikely to ever be better.

 

I would show off for her next time, though: have a long conversation with your daughter about classic lit or drop your phi beta kappa key or something else equally obnoxious.

[Zebra]

I would have responded to her with, "Oh, we're supposed to READ the books?   I was using them to prop my couch up/kill bugs with/a hard surface to scratch lottery tickets/perform satanic rituals with.   I had no idea they were TO READ, thanks so much for your helpful advice!"

 

I had a librarian tell my daughter that she read her 10 books for the library reading program too fast, and she was obviously reading books that were too easy for her and had to go home and try again.  Never mind that they were all age appropriate books and my daughter is just a very fast reader and was for whatever reason extremely motivated to get her (stupid) t-shirt.  FWIW, it had nothing to do with race.  

[marbel]

Yeah, there is no way to know what motivated her.  I suppose it's very hard for a nonwrhite person not to see racism behind every rude or condescending comment.  (I don't mean that in a snarky way at all.)   She could have simply been confused by your comment about the book backlog.  

 

I have also dealt with rude, ignorant, condescending librarians.   Most of the current folks are pretty good but I've had a few moments, always over overdue books.  More than once I've had a librarian tell me "just look in the car or under your bed; you have it" only to later find the book on the library shelf, having been returned by me but not checked in by staff. 

 

There are just a lot of rude, clueless, condescending people out there.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Unless you left out certain words of what she said I don't see it as racism. Why does everything need to be racism if it offends? When I read your beginning OP I never thought racism and was confused why you all of a sudden had to bring your skin color into it.

 

However, the librarian was wrong saying that (not for racism issues).

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I had a similar moment, but not in the library.

 

Ds and I had to go to the social services office (obviously poor). Ds was being ds. I was trying to engage him with the few toys they had and that I brought. He was 5, almost 6, poor expression, poor articulation, very wild that year.

 

A woman behind the counter hands me a pamphlet saying it could help us. I take it without looking and say thank you.

 

We finish and leave. I looked at the pamphlet at home. It was for adult literacy classes! It had nothing to do parenting.

 

It still annoys me more than 3 years later.

[BigMamaBird]

I wouldn't be offended.  There's been a HUGE childhood literacy push in the last few years.  They sent children's books home with us from the hospital, there's a very prominent booth at the County Fair where they give you lots of pamphlets for Government programs and little books and the list goes on.   Basically any time you get a group of young kids as a demographic they push this stuff on you.  The only reason I find it annoying is because they talk to you like you're 5 and that they have all the answers in life and if you'd only raise our kids like they tell you then it's be all sunshine and roses.  I don't see it as a racist thing but a Big Government thing.

[clarkacademy]

I am white and I have gotten remarks like this before. I think they are just doing their job and meant no harm.

[Harriet Vane]

OP--I always find it amazing when a bunch of white folks view an interaction like this and minimize the idea of racism. I have had this type of conversation with many. White people simply do not have the context of having watched or experienced the kind of pervasive, systemic racism that is still very much a part of the American experience for people of color.

 

I am sorry this happened to you. :grouphug:

[clarkacademy]

NM

[bettyandbob]

The OP said she didn't know what to think. She comes to this experience as a person who has  experienced racism. Her gut tells her these condescending remarks feel like condescending remarks which she has previously experienced and knew were rooted in racism. I can accept why the OP thinks these remarks are racist. 

 

I'm not sure why some posters are suggesting she's wrong for even considering that. It's myopic. 

[momto10blessings]

I've read your post 3 times and I'm so confused as to why you think she was being racist. I guess I'm missing something?? It was a really rude thing for her to say, but for some reason I just don't see racism as part of it.

People are stupid. If I had a dollar for every rude thing said to me by stranger I would be rich!

[JadeOrchidSong]

One Caucasian cashier in her 50s at Cub grocery store asked me at the checkout, "Do you have food stamps?"

 

By the way, fellow WTMers, I am Asian, and I have never used food stamps.

 

Please help me decide if this is racism or not.

 

Another question to my fellow WTMers: Have you been asked this same question?

[JadeOrchidSong]

OP--I always find it amazing when a bunch of white folks view an interaction like this and minimize the idea of racism. I have had this type of conversation with many. White people simply do not have the context of having watched or experienced the kind of pervasive, systemic racism that is still very much a part of the American experience for people of color.

 

I am sorry this happened to you. :grouphug:

Exactly! Can't agree more!

[SKL]

The part of her comment that really bothered me was "why don't you ____?"  It is never a service employee's business to say something in that way to a patron.  It puts the other person on the defensive and is certain to be unhelpful at best.

 

If she would have said something else like "I'm so glad you came, sharing books with kids produces amazing lifelong results," that would have been 100% OK in my opinion (regardless of skin color).

[FaithManor]

I agree with Joanne that a phone call to her boss may be in order. It doesn't have to be emotional and accusatory since we don't know if she is racist or just one of those Know it Alls that thinks her opinion is so important she must slather it all over people whenever the notion takes her fancy. Just keep it professional, state the facts, state that you were taken aback and offended by the tone and substance of her lecture and remind the head librarian that you are a regular patron of the library. This is for their protection as well because clearly the little miss needs some customer service training.

 

I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion of racism. We had a white librarian at our local library for about two years (they eventually got tired of the complaints and canned her) who blathered her conceited opinions all over everyone...didn't matter your ethnicity or religion, she just thought so much of herself that EVERYONE should want to know what she thought so they could instantly implement it. She bossed teachers around to the point they stopped sending students down there for research. This could be the case.

 

Then again, she could be bigoted. Either way, her boss can figure out what her deal is and handle it, but only if he or she knows the substance of what happened.

 

Faith

[clarkacademy]

One Caucasian cashier in her 50s at Cub grocery store asked me at the checkout, "Do you have food stamps?"

 

By the way, fellow WTMers, I am Asian, and I have never used food stamps.

 

Please help me decide if this is racism or not.

 

Another question to my fellow WTMers: Have you been asked this same question?

Yes I have actually last week. Apparently there was some computer thing going on and they were asking everyone before they rang their stuff up. Just after I was asked the next line over a woman started LOUDLY yelling how dare you ask me that cause I'm black along with a few choice other words. Not everything is racially motivated and quite honestly it is getting old hearing it. We have a family on our street that yells to the heavens that ALL of us are a bunch of racists on our street because none of our kids play with their kids. The reason why? They steal, they do not behave, they have been caught in a bunch of our yards destroying our property etc etc. The really funny thing???? Even the other people of color won't play with them but they are called racists and "fake" black people who only act black when they want too. Itt's getting old that no matter what your accused of being racist. I wouldn't care what color those kids are ill behaved is ill behaved and my kids don't need friends like that.

[SKL]

By the way, the librarian may very well be racist.  Perhaps she's one of the "well-meaning" ones who feel sorry for the genetically inferior race.  If racism was behind her comment, she probably did not even realize it.

 

But either way, how does it help to dwell on that now?  Personally it does not improve my quality of life to focus on all the ways I have been mistreated for whatever reason.  If she needs training, mention it to her boss and be done with it IMO.