speedmom4 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I have been wondering about this for a while. In the bulletin I have seen a chart showing how much money is coming in, how much is budgeted for the month/quarter, and what the difference is. I have never seen an actual budget that categorizes expenses. Does your church publish it's budget? Does it share information like how much the pastor is paid, what the building debt is, landscaping costs, etc? Just curious! Elise in NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Every single expenditure is accounted for at our business meeting. They also inform the congregation of debts owed, upcoming expenses, budgets, etc. One thing that I love about our church. It would be very difficult for someone to misappropriate funds because of the openness and layers of oversight in our financial system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in SC Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yes-our church is wide open about finances. It is published every year in our directory. The only fund that is not is the pastor's discretionary fund. The total amount for the year is published, but how it is used is not. It contains only a few thousand dollars to help both members and non-members with food, small bills, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I am not sure about our current church, because I have never asked. Previous churches we have attended had a monthly budget meeting where everyone in attendance was given a break down of every penny brought in and sent out. We knew how much all staff was paid and how much was spend on details like golf pencils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Completely transparent. We have a congregational meeting once a year where the budget is presented and has to be approved. Everything is there including debts, expenses, ect. The pastor’s salary is on there as well as the other church workers (we have a small church so it’s only a few people). ETA: I guess the one thing that isn’t completely transparent is where the deacons funds go. We know how much total they spent but they will sometimes assist people with rent, food, etc. and that is confidential as to who receives it and how much is given to each person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I have been wondering about this for a while. In the bulletin I have seen a chart showing how much money is coming in, how much is budgeted for the month/quarter, and what the difference is. I have never seen an actual budget that categorizes expenses. Does your church publish it's budget? Does it share information like how much the pastor is paid, what the building debt is, landscaping costs, etc? Just curious! Elise in NC The weekly bulletin has something similar to your church. What's come in, what was pledged, and what the budget is.... An annual budget is made, which is accessible to anyone. Each committee makes their requests to the finance committee, who then creates a budget based on pledges and committee requests. The church council votes on it. People can ask questions at that meeting, even if they aren't on the council. Anyone can see it at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialClassical Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Our church doesn't do the bulletin update, but the our deacons prepare and publish a very detailed budget every year. It includes the items you listed and discussion about the budget is welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I think we get the actual budget yearly. We also get the 3Ts talk about that time. I should also add that membership to the finance committee is always open. There really aren't secrets about money in my parish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Our church doesn't publish the full budget, but Finance Committee meetings (and all others) are open to anyone who wants to attend. So any member of the church could attend the committee meeting and ask about the budget. If someone requested the information they would probably be given a copy, but it might take time to get the request fufilled as our secretary is part-time and our committee members are volunteers. The only reason a full budget isn't provided at our church is because of lack of interest/use of resources. I would recommend as a first step finding out if the information will be provided upon request. If not, then you might question why not. KWIM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofkhm Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Does your church publish it's budget? Does it share information like how much the pastor is paid, what the building debt is, landscaping costs, etc? Yes. Once a year at our annual meeting. You may not see the pastor's salary, but there is just a line item for salary and that's everyone who gets paid. The total debt on the building isn't on there, but mortgage payment amount is. I think landscaping is under maintenance costs. When we have difficulties, we publish the income vs budget and shortfall or overage by quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The church we'd attended for four years was completely opaque about finances. After we realized just how secretive it all was, my dh went in & talked to one of the pastors & a couple of elders. They explained their reasoning (mostly, too much dissension/disputing over an open budget process) but they did offer to show him the books while he was there. Although we trusted the pastor/elders, it was too much secrecy for us and we decided to attend church elsewhere. We think the church should avoid any appearance of anything that could lead to criticism/scandal in this area. Yes, we've seen dissension created in the budgeting process but we've seen worse problems with secrecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Full budget printed out and mailed to our house yearly. All finance related meetings are open to anyone. Major spending decisions are voted upon by pledging members. We go to a UU chruch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raceNzanesmom Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Every single expenditure is accounted for at our business meeting. They also inform the congregation of debts owed, upcoming expenses, budgets, etc. One thing that I love about our church. It would be very difficult for someone to misappropriate funds because of the openness and layers of oversight in our financial system. Same here, every tiny detail is listed. Big things are voted on by the members and any member can request to see the books at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipsey Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Every church I've been involved with from Baptist to Mennonite to Evangelical Free have been open about finances. Books were basically open, and each year, there was an accounting of the budget to everyone who wanted on (depending on the church, this was done differently, but it was all available--and sometimes quarterly as well). I wouldn't be a part of a church that wasn't open about its finances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Kind of an adjunct question... are these finances transparent for members only? What about regular attenders? I do understand the logic of only those who are members/givers being part of the spending decisions. I just wonder if there's a person or family that's been attending regularly, and want to see the books before they make a final decision about membership. Would your churches welcome their questions about specific budget items? OP, the church we attend publishes weekly inflow/outflow amounts in the bulletin and has an annual meeting with a printed budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Totally open. We have a non member who does the books and they get audited regularly as well. We do have a discretionary fund for charity that is a line item but isn't public who gets the money, but we track how much of it is for food, gas, medical bills, housing, ect. The elders have access to who that money went to, so it's not under the control of one or two people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We attend a UU church. The voting congregation votes on the budget. We know everything. We all know the salaries, the maintenance, the income, the interest etc. There are monthly finance meetings and they are open to anyone who wants to attend. And if you have a specific question you can ask any member of the finance committee. I promise you will get a very, very thorough answer, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yes. It is all available in extreme detail, at any time. Quarterly & Annual Business meetings are where it is discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Not at all. It's one of the things that has me questioning my membership. The church is extremely wealthy and takes in a lot of money in the form of tithing. I'd love to see exactly where all the money goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Kind of an adjunct question... are these finances transparent for members only? What about regular attenders? I do understand the logic of only those who are members/givers being part of the spending decisions. I just wonder if there's a person or family that's been attending regularly, and want to see the books before they make a final decision about membership. Would your churches welcome their questions about specific budget items? OP, the church we attend publishes weekly inflow/outflow amounts in the bulletin and has an annual meeting with a printed budget. Open to all who ask or attend business mtgs. Membership only allows you to vote, but attendance & discussion/questions are available to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Our church publishes a monthly cash flow/expenditures report in the bulletin monthly. They publish a budget yearly, which is broken down fairly finely. They show comparisons with previous years and explain increases/decreases. We have a finance committee that is always looking for members, so people who express an interest are welcome. We have a consensus style of management and open each meeting with prayer, inviting the Holy Spirit to guide us in all our discussions and decisions. ETA: All of this info is available on our church website, so anyone can see it. Membership is not required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We have an itemized budget that is published every January and we have a congregational meeting about it. We know everything - how much the pastor makes, all the staff, how much the electric bill is, everything. It's a big deal. And we know how much money comes in and from where (not who, but rather...if there's other sources of income besides tithing, like weddings - our church is very picturesque so people who don't go to our church often want to have their wedding at our church, so we charge them for it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Michelle* Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 They publish a complete income/outgo in the bulletin each quarter. The annual budget planning meeting is open to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Totally open. And so have all the churches we have been member of. We do have a line for other staff salaries that is not itemized but if you did the math- money divided by people- you know no one is being paid outrageously or anything close to it. I am sure the budgets are available to anyone since they were out on the foyer table waiting to be picked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 It's posted in our bulletin once a week and at the end of the year the entire budget is available for anyone who asks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Our church publishes the budget annually. The only thing that isn't completely broken out is staff salaries. Those are lumped into "ministry staff" and "support staff" and just given in totals, not by position. However, anyone may ask and receive the details of the salaries. We get monthly updates like the OP mentioned, income, outgo, %budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Our church has a meeting where we look at what the projected budget was, what we actually spent, and the projected budget for next year. Our pastor says he will open the books to anyone at all if they make an appointment so it can be done on his time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yes. They do a yearly booklet. If you have any questions throughout year, you will be given detailed answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Ours is very open. I don't think they have business meetings, but I'm sure you could request a copy of the budget and be provided with at least the high level line items. Last fall we had a situation where the church leadership realized that some of the checks and balances process that were supposed to be in place had somehow been circumvented for months, and the church was $100K in arrears. The congregation was told about it the same week the problem was identified. The church brought in outside resources to review all the books and help them develop a plan to get back on track, even though the deficient was quickly taken care of thanks to an inpouring of special offerings. We still get updated every 6 weeks or so on how things look moving forward. One of the reasons we left our old church was because of church transparency. There were several families that were long-time attendees and called it our church home, but didn't have formal membership for whatever reason. The old pastor felt everyone that called the church home should attend business meetings; we just couldn't enter a vote for anything. The new pastor though, decided that only formal members should attend the meetings. Many of us were quite upset about that and ultimately chose to leave rather than formally join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensmom Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Totally open. A detailed expense sheet is presented and reviewed every month at board meetings. Anyone can attend these meetings and review the monthly expenditures. All major financial decisions must be approved by a vote of the board and the congregation is informed of any upcoming decisions so that they may be in attendance at the monthly board meeting. Anyone may speak ( ask questions, share opinions) at these meetings, but only board members vote. Also, the board is comprised of the leaders of each committee and no one can serve more than five consecutive years which prevents just a handful of people holding the purse strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yes, completely transparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Our last church published a quarterly spreadsheet for everyone to see. The one that we are in now puts some basic numbers in the bulletin and if someone wants to hear more than they can sit in on the meeting once a month. Anyone is allowed to sit in on a congregational meeting regardless of whether you are a member or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnbacademy Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 We have a yearly business meeting where all income and expenditures are printed out and reviewed line-by-line and open for ?'s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustybug Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We have something similar to the OP in our Wed. night bulletins. Then there are business meeting quarterly where everything is opened up completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Not at all. It's one of the things that has me questioning my membership. The church is extremely wealthy and takes in a lot of money in the form of tithing. I'd love to see exactly where all the money goes. Are churches in the States required to have a yearly business meeting to disclose the state of the finances to members? Does yours do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I have been wondering about this for a while. In the bulletin I have seen a chart showing how much money is coming in, how much is budgeted for the month/quarter, and what the difference is. I have never seen an actual budget that categorizes expenses. Does your church publish it's budget? Does it share information like how much the pastor is paid, what the building debt is, landscaping costs, etc? Just curious! Elise in NC I should have included your OP in my previous post/question. Seems to me it would be a legal requirement to disclose the budget and the state of it at least yearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Are churches in the States required to have a yearly business meeting to disclose the state of the finances to members? Does yours do this? No, it's not required. 501©(3) charities are required to give a copy of their financial statements to any donor who asks. But churches are exempt. We discovered this when we asked our former church for financials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I have been wondering about this for a while. In the bulletin I have seen a chart showing how much money is coming in, how much is budgeted for the month/quarter, and what the difference is. I have never seen an actual budget that categorizes expenses. Does your church publish it's budget? Does it share information like how much the pastor is paid, what the building debt is, landscaping costs, etc? Just curious! Elise in NC Yes, they publish the budget. We have to approve the budget each year, so we can find the nitty gritty if we want to. In addition, each month a spread sheet is printed and put on the church bulletin board with the detailed monthly budget (in, out, where expenses went, if/where donations were designated to, etc.). It's also available on our website either under the Parish Council minutes and/or the Bi-annual parish business meeting. We have a pretty open-door policy for our budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 No, it's not required. 501©(3) charities are required to give a copy of their financial statements to any donor who asks. But churches are exempt. We discovered this when we asked our former church for financials! wow! That's surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceyshoe Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We have a small congregation, so our practices might differ from a mega-church. The budget is not published and distributed. Everyone who attends services is invited to attend council meetings where those things are discussed and distributed. If a member wants a printed copy but can't attend the meeting, I'm sure they could request a copy of the meeting minutes and budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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