S/o of reusable bag thread: Would you sign a petition?

[Brilliant]

I almost always bring my reusable Trader Joe's bags to the grocery store. The disposable ones have their uses (love the Target bags for lining bathroom wastebaskets). But my main issue with them is that they are the number 1 litter problem around here - some sections of the freeway are horribly littered with plastic grocery sacks.

 

My city has a petition to ban single-use sacks, which I plan to sign. My dh thinks I've gone communist on him - that we shouldn't *force* people to bring their own bags. But I can't think of another way to get folks to be responsible for their bags unless they've paid for them. And maybe use the bag fee to help pay for litter patrol.

 

What say you - communist or common sense? ;)

[TravelingChris]

Communism. I don't bring bags and I don't have them flying around the city. I reuse or recycle all bags that I use. There have been studies of the large amount of germs in reusable bags. I don't need more sources of infection as I take immunosuppressive drugs.

[Amy in NH]

Not sure how that's communism, but I don't bring my own bags, and I reuse or recycle all the ones I bring home.

 

Crack down on the litterers, instead.

[Lady Florida.]

Definition of communism from Merriam Webster online:

 

1

a

:

a theory advocating elimination of private property

b

:

a system in which goods are owned in

common

and are available to all as needed

 

 

2

 

capitalized

a

:

a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian

socialism

and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

b

:

a totalitarian system of government in which a single

authoritarian

party controls state-owned means of production

c

:

a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably

 

 

I don't see how making people use reusable bags to fits into that definition.

 

Obviously my answer is 'common sense'.

[TravelingChris]

Of course, it isn't communism, as in the economic system. But it is totaliarism= as in the government getting into your personal business.

[DianeW88]

No. I wouldn't sign a petition. I think forcing people to use a certain kind of grocery sack is not only an infringement on personal freedom, but a waste of my tax dollars.

[Seasider]

Aldi charges for grocery bags. Not much, but it's enough incentive to cause most folks to bring their own bags. I think that's a much better course of action than demanding folks bring them. People seem to respond well to financial incentives, small though they be.

[Mama Geek]

Have you not seen any of the reports on people getting ill from reusing bags? I often use the plastic bags for cleaning up after the dog or lining small trash can along with lots of other things. If they did away with plastic grocery bags, I would end up buying plastic bags for these things. As far as Aldi goes they can charge for bags and people can still shop somewhere else. The difference is the government doing it versus the store doing it. I don't have a problem with a store doing it.

 

Of course I think seat belt laws and helmet laws and lots of other laws fall into the same category.

[Joker]

All of our trashcans, including the kitchen, are small and inside of cabinets. I use those grocery store bags to line all of them. If I could no longer get them at the store, I would be purchasing them so it would not reduce my use of them. It would be pointless and just end up costing me money. I also don't like the reusable bags for everything because some items can leak nastiness and ruin the bags. No, I would not sign a petition.

[*Lulu*]

Even though I bring my own bags to the store I would not want the store to do away with their plastic bags. I have anything chemical and meat bagged in the store's bags instead of my reusable ones and would not want to try and handle the disinfecting of reusable bags from those products.

 

The problem in your area sounds to me like an issue with societal behavior, not the existence of a product.

[Mom-ninja.]

Getting sick from reusable bags? Wash the darn bags. Not hard people. People in Europe must be dropping like flies because of all the germ infested reusable bags, carts, baskets, and bins they use for grocery shopping. Oh, wait. They aren't getting sick.

 

Goodness how have humans survived without plastic bags in the past?

 

If you want to use plastic bags then do so, but don't come up with excuses like germs being in reusable bags. Just clean them. Plastic bags are a convenience not a health necessity.

 

 

I think stores charging for plastic bags is a great idea. That way you still have the option to buy one if you forget your bags or baskets.

[creekland]

I wouldn't sign a petition. I use reusable bags for all sorts of basic boxed or canned things, but reusable bags for meat and produce - then we reuse those bags for garbage bags. To me, that's the best of both, but I don't want to see taxpayer dollars wasted making people do what we do. I'd much rather have the store offer incentives (our store offers us 3 cents off for each bag we bring in to use).

 

If pollution is a problem, address that with more enforcement or clean up days. If kids/adults/whoever ends up cleaning things up they tend to think a little more before littering.

[Remudamom]

That's been through the horse. Or the bull.

[Mrs Mungo]

If the problem is litter that the city is spending money to clean up, then I think a tax on their use is reasonable. That is different than banning them.

 

I think it works better when there is a carrot and/or a stick that work as nudges. Take money off for bring your own bags and/or charge for the use of bags.

[Mom-ninja.]

A lot people tell me they reuse plastic bags to line bathroom trashcans. Why? I'm honestly asking. I don't line any of the bathroom bins with a bag. I simply dump the bins out when they are full into the main kitchen garbage bag. The bathroom bins don't get dirty, and it's easy enough to give them a quick rinse and/or spray with vinegar (or whatever you chose) to clean it when needed. I don't see the need for plastic bags in bathroom bins.

[*Lulu*]

If the problem is litter that the city is spending money to clean up, then I think a tax on their use is reasonable. That is different than banning them.

 

I think it works better when there is a carrot and/or a stick that work as nudges. Take money off for bring your own bags and/or charge for the use of bags.

 

I agree. Although I have had people tell me that it is too much effort to bring their own bags for just a few cents of savings. I think people would get up in arms if there was a charge, but they would start to change their behavior.

[elegantlion]

No, I wouldn't. Sometimes I take mine, sometimes I don't. I live in a very clean city, there are no plastic bags hanging around our highways. Deal with the litter problem. Not everyone who uses plastic is a litterbug, that's the issue, not the plastic.

 

I use my plastic bags for cat litter and what I don't use I take back to the store and throw in their recycling bin.

 

We're in an area where most people don't bring their own bags. Some cashiers seem clueless about how to actually fill a canvas bag properly, which is another rant. But we don't have self-check out either, I'd sign a petition for that option.

[elegantlion]

Because this is a perfect thread, one of my favorite songs about those pesky canvas bags.

 

 

[Guest inoubliable]

Not Communism. Not in the slightest.

 

I think people should pay for disposable bags - to encourage reusable bag use. That's not forcing people to use reusable bags. You're free to...bring your own bag. Use your hands. Use your pockets. Bring a friend to help you carry.

 

People getting sick from reusable bags?? Seriously? Wash your damn hands. Great googly moogly. :svengo:

[kewb]

I don't like the idea of a city ban. I do not want to live in a nanny state. I do not object to a store charging for bags but I much prefer the discount I get when I remember to bring my own bags.

[Mergath]

Common sense. The plastic bags take hundreds or even thousands of years to biodegrade. No one should use them for anything. Period. If someone doesn't have a reusable tote, I have no problem with the brown paper bags. But the plastic ones? No no no.

[4kidlets4me]

I would sign a petition. Plastic is horrible for the environment and should be eliminated anywhere we can. If you don't want to bring your own bag, use a paper bag.

[Lady Florida.]

.......I'm really sick of comparing anything remotely related to environmentalism to Communism. It's disgusting, and we've got too many buffoons in the media and political arena spreading such ignorance.

 

:hurray:

 

Getting sick from reusable bags? Wash the darn bags. Not hard people. People in Europe must be dropping like flies because of all the germ infested reusable bags, carts, baskets, and bins they use for grocery shopping. Oh, wait. They aren't getting sick.

 

Goodness how have humans survived without plastic bags in the past?

 

 

 

I'm old enough to remember a time before plastic bags. Most stores had paper bags, and my mom always took those. However, my grandmother brought her own bags. Just like the Europeans, who aren't getting sick from using their own bags.

 

Plastic bags were a novelty at one time. Now they're a nuisance.

[Unicorn.]

I'm really tired of paying for other people's stupidity and lack of common sense. I use the plastic bags for all kinds of things. Ds uses them to carry his lunch, bathroom trash cans (yes, mine get dirty!) litter boxes, donating to food drives (or similar), resale shops here use them for purchases, people use them at garage sales, I use them for trash bags in my car.....etc. Why should I have to pay for someone else's mistake?

 

Charge fines for littering, have organizations volunteer to do roadside cleanup (adopt a highway program), but don't punish me for someone else's lack of caring. No, I wouldn't sign a petition. BTW- I have reusable bags..most of them are full of books, or other stuff, but I do use both.

[*Lulu*]

Not Communism. Not in the slightest.

 

I think people should pay for disposable bags - to encourage reusable bag use. That's not forcing people to use reusable bags. You're free to...bring your own bag. Use your hands. Use your pockets. Bring a friend to help you carry.

 

People getting sick from reusable bags?? Seriously? Wash your damn hands. Great googly moogly. :svengo:

 

The one story I heard of involving reusable bags and illness the bags were in the bathroom where people had been violently ill. I never figured out why you would put your reusable bags in the bathroom.

 

I personally have a hang up about raw meat. I do not actually fear illness for me and mine, it just skeeves me out. I would happily pay for some sort of disposable bag each week not to have to put it in mine. But if the option were removed I would figure it out. (I would get a bright red sharpie and write UNCLEAN on the bag for the meat and find a way to sanitize it and separate it from all the good clean bags who do not need the meat bag cooties!) :p

[Joker]

I really never see plastic bags as litter in my area. The litter here seems to consist of McDonald's trash and cigarette butts. I could probably get behind a petition to ban McD's and smoking. :tongue_smilie:

[Laura Corin]

Okay, I found an article about people getting ill from a reusable bag. The bag of food had been left in the bathroom! The virus had 'floated in' from the toilet. Nothing to do with the bag being reusable.

 

Laura

[SailorMom]

The bags aren't the problem. The idiots who let them fly away from them are. I do not like Nanny government. The more we regulate, the less common sense people seem to have. The reusable bags have their purposes, but I will not put meat or dairy in them. I also reuse every plastic bag we get (either as trash can liners or dog/cat waste pickup bags). I think it is hilarious that I know people who refuse to use plastic grocery sacks, but go out and buy expensive rolls of poop scoop bags and trash liner bags.... and I highly doubt anyone wants to get "crafty" and make re-useable poop bags. You can see from my avatar that I adore sea turtles - and we live on the coast. Sea turtles mistake plastic sacks for jellyfish and can die from trying to eat them. So - we pick up any bags we see and remind people of the costs of ignoring the litter.

[*Lulu*]

I really never see plastic bags as litter in my area. The litter here seems to consist of McDonald's trash and cigarette butts. I could probably get behind a petition to ban McD's and smoking. :tongue_smilie:

 

See that is what I meant upthread about it being a societal issue. I remember when everywhere we went people just tossed their cigarette butts to the ground, even if there was a freestanding ashtray. As little as 10 years ago I would see them all over the place outside of places like WalMart. I still see people smoking in those areas today, but I also see them properly disposing of the butts. Something in how our local society views tossing butts to the ground has changed.

 

We can debate reusable vs plastic all day, but the OP's area will likely still have a trash problem even without the plastic bags unless the culture of littering in her area is addressed.

[dbmamaz]

1. i think charging for bags makes more sense and is a more efficient use of time and money than making a law. i'm not a libertarian, but sometimes its just too much.

 

2. i dont line my garbage cans. Once in a while i wash them

 

3. once in a while, i wash my grocery bags.

 

americans paranoia about germs gets tiring. exposure to germs strengthens the immune system. kids who get dirty are healthier. unless someone in your home has an immune disorder. disinfectants cause more health problems than they solve. most are toxic. to humans as well as bacteria.

[JumpyTheFrog]

The litter problem must vary by location. I've never seen excessive amounts of litter near Walmart in any of the cities I've lived in. Fast food containers are a bigger problem here - or trash bags that flew out of people's trucks while they were driving down the highway. Seriously people, secure your garbage on the way to the dump.

[happypamama]

I would not sign a petition, and I don't support the government making people use reusable bags. I think they're a good idea, and I do favor incentives from stores for using them (charging for bags, giving a discount if you bring your own). I do use my reusable bags very often, but like other posters said, I also reuse the plastic bags for trash; if I didn't use the grocery bags, I'd buy trash bags. I also recycle plastic bags when I have a glut of them at home.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't like the idea of a city ban. I do not want to live in a nanny state. I do not object to a store charging for bags but I much prefer the discount I get when I remember to bring my own bags.

 

I'm not picking on you, kewb, several people said something like this. How is regulating something that affects us *all* wrong for government? You cannot pretend that plastic bags (via litter or no) have no impact on the environment.

 

We have "sin taxes" in most (if not all?) states for things like cigarettes and alcohol because they are unhealthy and place a burden on the health care system. So, the state places a tax on it to help recoup some of that money. Yes, it is encouraging better living, but it is also addressing a financial issue. I get charged a tax when I buy alcohol, even though I'm not burdening my liver with vast overconsumption of alcohol.

[edelweiss]

No, I would never sign such a petition. Way too nanny state for me. Like others have already mentioned, there are better ways to handle this IMO.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

I'm not picking on you, kewb, several people said something like this. How is regulating something that affects us *all* wrong for government? You cannot pretend that plastic bags (via litter or no) have no impact on the environment.

 

We have "sin taxes" in most (if not all?) states for things like cigarettes and alcohol because they are unhealthy and place a burden on the health care system. So, the state places a tax on it to help recoup some of that money. Yes, it is encouraging better living, but it is also addressing a financial issue.

 

Not only that but the use here of "nanny state" is...interesting. A ban wouldn't take away all of one's options and force one into a single preset way of bagging groceries.

[Mom-ninja.]

Litter is not the only problem with plastic bags. So it's not just someone's mistake of not throwing away the bags. The environmental impact of these bags simply being produced and existing (one could say forever in terms of human life span) is as much of a problem then the litter.

 

Existence without plastic bags is very doable just not as convenient. People like convenient. People can pay for the luxury of plastic bags if they want to use them.

[Brilliant]

The problem in your area sounds to me like an issue with societal behavior, not the existence of a product.

Yes, the area I'm talking about is lower-income and has a high immigrant population. My dh grew up in the country from whence most of the immigrants came, and he says they don't have the same view on litter that we do...mostly because of the higher levels of poverty and lack of education.

 

A lot people tell me they reuse plastic bags to line bathroom trashcans. Why? I'm honestly asking. I don't line any of the bathroom bins with a bag. I simply dump the bins out when they are full into the main kitchen garbage bag. The bathroom bins don't get dirty, and it's easy enough to give them a quick rinse and/or spray with vinegar (or whatever you chose) to clean it when needed. I don't see the need for plastic bags in bathroom bins.

IME, bathroom bins can get icky. I'd rather go with the individual liners. Also, we fill our big kitchen can to the brim, so I don't think I'm wasting bags by using a separate smaller one.

... I think it is hilarious that I know people who refuse to use plastic grocery sacks, but go out and buy expensive rolls of poop scoop bags and trash liner bags.... and I highly doubt anyone wants to get "crafty" and make re-useable poop bags.

Somehow even though I rarely get bags from the store, and I only get a newspaper on Sundays, I still have TONS of bags available for scooping poop. They just seem to multiply! (produce bags especially)

[Lady Florida.]

What is the purpose of government? Is it partly to promote general welfare as the preamble to our Constitution says? It seems many of a certain political stripe prefer anarchy. While we can disagree on what constitutes 'general welfare' and what should be regulated, to say that the government shouldn't regulate anything seems a bit strange to me. I would not be surprised if many of those (and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread) who think regulating environmental issues is wrong have no problem regulating who people love, marry, and what they do in the bedroom. And then they will say that government shouldn't be telling us what to do.

[Brilliant]

 

Not only that but the use here of "nanny state" is...interesting. A ban wouldn't take away all of one's options and force one into a single preset way of bagging groceries.

 

I agree...you have the option to bring your own bag, pay for a bag, or not use a bag, so that's why I don't get the argument. Getting a free bag from the grocery store has somehow turned into an inalienable right.

[Mom-ninja.]

The bags aren't the problem. I think it is hilarious that I know people who refuse to use plastic grocery sacks, but go out and buy expensive rolls of poop scoop bags and trash liner bags.... and I highly doubt anyone wants to get "crafty" and make re-useable poop bags.

 

Actually, the bags are the problem.

 

I buy garbage bags that are biodegradable. They make the same for poop scoop bags. They even make bathroom sized biodegradable bags.

 

On that note why can't a paper bag be used in bathrooms? Also, what in the world is going into bathroom bins to make them so dirty? I'm missing something here. Are you throwing food into the bathroom bins? What?

[Joker]

 

I agree...you have the option to bring your own bag, pay for a bag, or not use a bag, so that's why I don't get the argument. Getting a free bag from the grocery store has somehow turned into an inalienable right.

 

Your OP said the petition was to BAN single use bags, not only be able to have them if you pay for them. I don't care if I'm charged a few cents per bag, but I don't agree they should be banned. They're not single use bags to me since I use them for many other things once they're home.

[Mergath]

The bags aren't the problem. The idiots who let them fly away from them are. I do not like Nanny government. The more we regulate, the less common sense people seem to have. The reusable bags have their purposes, but I will not put meat or dairy in them. I also reuse every plastic bag we get (either as trash can liners or dog/cat waste pickup bags). I think it is hilarious that I know people who refuse to use plastic grocery sacks, but go out and buy expensive rolls of poop scoop bags and trash liner bags.... and I highly doubt anyone wants to get "crafty" and make re-useable poop bags. You can see from my avatar that I adore sea turtles - and we live on the coast. Sea turtles mistake plastic sacks for jellyfish and can die from trying to eat them. So - we pick up any bags we see and remind people of the costs of ignoring the litter.

 

Yes, the bags are a problem, regardless of whether you let the wind take one or dispose of it "properly." It doesn't matter if you fill it with poop or not first- it's still going to sit in that landfill for a thousand years. And when you think about how many of these bags are produced and disposed of every day, that's truly horrifying.

[Brilliant]

Your OP said the petition was to BAN single use bags, not only be able to have them if you pay for them. I don't care if I'm charged a few cents per bag, but I don't agree they should be banned. They're not single use bags to me since I use them for many other things once they're home.

 

Oops..you're right, I said that. Now I don't remember the exact language; I'll have to check it out next time I see one.

 

I've shopped in communities before where they charged 5-10 cents for a bag - but I don't think I've ever shopped in a community where single-use bags are banned.

[nmoira]

The bags aren't the problem. The idiots who let them fly away from them are. I do not like Nanny government. The more we regulate, the less common sense people seem to have. The reusable bags have their purposes, but I will not put meat or dairy in them. I also reuse every plastic bag we get (either as trash can liners or dog/cat waste pickup bags). I think it is hilarious that I know people who refuse to use plastic grocery sacks, but go out and buy expensive rolls of poop scoop bags and trash liner bags.... and I highly doubt anyone wants to get "crafty" and make re-useable poop bags. You can see from my avatar that I adore sea turtles - and we live on the coast. Sea turtles mistake plastic sacks for jellyfish and can die from trying to eat them. So - we pick up any bags we see and remind people of the costs of ignoring the litter.

 

I'm having problems reconciling these two statements.

 

Portland has been without plastic bags in grocery stores for over a year and the world hasn't ended. :) More often that not I get paper bags rather than use my own, but these I use as recycling, garbage and compost bags. I do order poop bags for the dog (the plastic newspaper sleeves are good for one poop a day, but he does two) -- at $15 for 700, they're not terribly expensive -- and they're properly disposed of.

[Tammyla]

I wouldn't sign a petition for that.

 

However, I do shop at places that charge for bags or give a credit if you bring your own.

[Brilliant]

I would not sign a petition, and I don't support the government making people use reusable bags. I think they're a good idea, and I do favor incentives from stores for using them (charging for bags, giving a discount if you bring your own).

 

I just did a search to try to get info on my city's proposal and came up with this interesting article:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:nBFGbnxmDOUJ:www.princeton.edu/~homonoff/THomonoff_JobMarketPaper+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShVnsC0R19YW2fXpfG3vO15rlt46KMn6EbOUiWGPgZUftn0jLMU61Ax5jFGI-Yfz2oBAcvoi_4MDrL9IiGkipsxWNHdUtL85CCLGi6L64lqU2yyabNk-LcG1xSMwEKpjHnoPXJH&sig=AHIEtbS5s8gEK1GuZU6oaJlujazI-IlYiw

The upshot is that a small charge (5 cents) for a bag has a big effect on peoples' behavior, while a small rebate for bringing your own bag has almost no effect. So in this case the carrot doesn't work, only the stick.

[Lady Florida.]

I really never see plastic bags as litter in my area. The litter here seems to consist of McDonald's trash and cigarette butts. I could probably get behind a petition to ban McD's and smoking. :tongue_smilie:

 

I see the occasional plastic bag floating on the wind, but mostly I see cigarette butts and fast food trash. I also agree about litter being regional. I've heard people say Florida has a lot of trash by the roadside, and I scratch my head. Maybe that's the case in touristy* areas, and most people who visit the state frequent those areas so that's what they see. Where I live, which isn't touristy, there isn't a lot of litter. I'm not saying it's the tourists who litter, but maybe more people (tourists plus year-round residents plus snowbirds) equals a higher chance of some of those people being litterers.

 

I think it is hilarious that I know people who refuse to use plastic grocery sacks, but go out and buy expensive rolls of poop scoop bags and trash liner bags.... and I highly doubt anyone wants to get "crafty" and make re-useable poop bags.

 

We have some of those poop bags that attach to the dog's collar, but that's because they came in a goodie bag long ago. Usually we just bring plastic grocery bags with us when we take the dog for a walk.

 

As far as trash bags go - my city requires all food trash to be in a plastic bag. Even though we compost and throw non-recyclable but "clean" trash right into our trash barrel, we still need plastic trash bags. I don't think it's possible or even desirable in today's world to completely eliminate plastic bags. I do think we all should do what we can. I still think the old Think Globally, Act Locally slogan applies.

 

 

*Apparently touristy is a real word, since I'm not getting the red underlining when I use it. I always thought it was a made-up word that people use anyway.

[Janie Grace]

Does your TJ's use plastic bags?! Mine uses brown bags. I think they already have a private campaign to get people to bring bags... the fill those darn brown bags so full that the handles rip off and you throw out your back. I am not even kidding!

 

No, I wouldn't sign a petition. But charging a little for bags makes sense. It would probably make me remember to bring mine, honestly.

[Mama Geek]

Getting sick from reusable bags? Wash the darn bags. Not hard people. People in Europe must be dropping like flies because of all the germ infested reusable bags, carts, baskets, and bins they use for grocery shopping. Oh, wait. They aren't getting sick.

 

Goodness how have humans survived without plastic bags in the past?

 

If you want to use plastic bags then do so, but don't come up with excuses like germs being in reusable bags. Just clean them. Plastic bags are a convenience not a health necessity.

 

 

I think stores charging for plastic bags is a great idea. That way you still have the option to buy one if you forget your bags or baskets.

 

You can laugh at it but there are tons of articles out there talking about how food borne illnesses have gone up because of this. I pack my dh's lunch in a cloth bag and do wash it, but there are lots of people who will never bother to wash their grocery bags. I am not saying it is what will happen, I am saying it is already happening.

[Brilliant]

 

On that note why can't a paper bag be used in bathrooms? Also, what in the world is going into bathroom bins to make them so dirty? I'm missing something here. Are you throwing food into the bathroom bins? What?

 

Well, most women use certain personal hygiene items in their bathroom. We could start another conversation about whether those paper products should be banned, too. ;) (I do use cloth *most* of the time!)