S/o of reusable bag thread: Would you sign a petition?

[kubiac]

I, for one, welcome our new communist reusable bag overlords.

 

In our area we have three bag groups:

 

# Stores that offer plastic or paper bags and that neither encourage nor discourage reusables

# Stores that offer paper bags only and encourage reusable bag use by offering either a nickel credit per bag or by entering you into a free-grocery raffle for using your bags.

# Stores that are in municipalities that have banned plastic bags

 

There is a CLEAR difference in consumer habits and practices between 1 and 2&3. People remember to bring in their reusable bags into stores in the latter two categories, but neglect to use their reusable bags for the first one. They might even been shopping in the same strip mall, but there is a habit and a weak undercurrent of peer pressure that encourages reusable bag use in the last two but not the first!

 

I love my reusable bags! I ditched all the cheapies made from recycled bottles and keep a stock of extremely sturdy hemp bags that can and will hold a gallon of milk and a watermelon without flinching. (I also have a few cotton/canvas ones that I keep as backups in the car in case I forget.) They are all washable so no more disease risk than in wearing clothing, IMHO.

 

Best of all, I don't have a million crinkly bags living in a corner of our laundry room. We keep a few on hand for wrapping up dirty diapers on the road, but that's it.

 

I personally really wish our city would ban plastic bags everywhere. I'm fairly good about remembering them for groceries, but I forget them reliably when going to a drugstore or a discount store and I feel sure that a change in policy would be the nudge that I need.

 

Resource: http://www.reuseit.com/, formerly reusablebags.com

[Mom-ninja.]

4) Plastic bags are not the problem - even with regards to sea turtles; people who litter, don't recycle, don't secure their trash, and are not educated are the problem. 5) Every darn thing we do seems to be "bad" for the environment these days, and all these little things take our attention away from the big problems that actually will really ruin the planet. Yes - be offended if you (general you - no one here specifically) must be - but plastic sacks are a really minor problem and having any government agency work on legislation about them is a waste of precious resources. If we all really care - we should be talking about the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, overuse of pesticides, "3rd world countries" that either cannot or will not get any kind of environmental regulation system up and functioning, etc., etc. Saving the world one plastic sack at a time just makes us all feel good about ourselves (like walking in a circle for breast cancer awareness, or using electric cars while charging them with power from a coal powered plant). The real impact is negligible. Oh - and as a side note..... not lining the bathroom garbage can.... I just don't see how all of those strings of used dental floss, cue-tips, feminine products, etc., wouldn't get a bin nasty.

 

 

I'm sensing that you don't know much about the environmental impact of plastics.

 

We could add to your list of real concerns with the growing plastic island in the middle of the ocean. It's huge and getting bigger.

 

As for not lining the trash bin.....you'd be surprised at how NOT messy it is. A simple cleaning of said bin is all it takes.

 

Once upon a time I couldn't imagine how nasty cloth diapers must be. Then I tried them. Really not a big deal. If all plastic disappeared tomorrow humans would survive even with all the nasties in the bathroom trash bin and our grocery bags.

 

 

Oh, and as for saving the world one plastic bag at a time only making me feel good about myself.....it's more than that. It's a battle I *can* fight. I can't do squat about what 3rd world countries do or don't do, and realistically I can't do squat about the overuse of pesticides, etc. However, I can do my part in the plastic bag issue. So I do. Because I can.

[Mom-ninja.]

Well - ok - I get you're saying charge for the store plastic sacks - but where exactly is that money going? Is it a tax to pay for cleaning up the streets, or is it just a fee the store keeps to pay for the bags?As for "it shouldn't be a free choice",,,, where does that end? Should we all HAVE to buy free range beef or chicken, cage free eggs, pesticide free veggies, shoes made from recycled soda bottles? Where does the government step in and out of these sorts of issues and who decides?

 

 

Wouldn't it be great if one didn't have to choose between free range eggs, meat, pesticide free veggies and "conventional"? All food should be clean and produced sustainably. Every person deserves clean food, water, and air. That is what I consider to be a human right. Not free plastic bags.

[SailorMom]

I'm sensing that you don't know much about the environmental impact of plastics.

 

I try very hard to refrain from personally insulting people here, but I guess that isn't a policy everyone tries to abide by. I know quite a lot of about plastics. I also know that the vast majority of that floating island of trash is made up of sturdy plastic items like soda bottles and crap from shipping containers that was dumped over in accidents. So - if you really care about the effect of plastic on the environment you have to stop using plastic COMPLETELY and have the government legislate against all plastic. How many people here (be honest) who said, "heck yeah - plastic bags are evil" (obviously joking) do not have plastic in their houses? Ok - but now - really think about that... shower curtain liner? Part of the chair you're sitting on? Pens? The keyboard you're typing on? Those lovely laminated maps? Binders? Game stations? The handles on your scissors? Plastic wrapping on items you have purchased? Sleeve protectors? Get my point?

[SailorMom]

Wouldn't it be great if one didn't have to choose between free range eggs, meat, pesticide free veggies and "conventional"? All food should be clean and produced sustainably. Every person deserves clean food, water, and air. That is what I consider to be a human right. Not free plastic bags.

 

I agree, but sadly I don't think our population could be fed with only food that is good for the environment. We may get there in the future, and one can hope, but currently the technology isn't there and our large population exists because of modern (and unhealthy) agricultural practices. And the bags aren't free - we're paying for them when we buy anything anywhere. They are just included in the prices already. I think it's a great idea to give a nickel off per re-usable bag if someone brings them in, and it makes sense since the person isn't using the bags the store paid for.

[Pawz4me]

I wouldn't sign a petition.

 

I use both re-usable and plastic bags. All plastic bags are either taken back to the store for recycling or repurposed. If I didn't have plastic shopping bags to reuse, then I'd just buy a box of plastic bags as needed. Which wouldn't matter much at all to our budget, but what good would be served? And for those who have mentioned biodegradable pet poop bags. Yes, those exist. Don't try to carry one for long if there's even a light mist. Don't ask how I know this.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm sorry, but I think the debate about whether bathroom trash is liner-worthy or not is totally ridiculous.

 

When we use plastic bags, we do reuse them as Remudamom does. They don't go in the trash; they go in a holder on the wall and get used up for lots of things.

 

We prefer to use cloth bags and we reuse paper sacks.

 

I'm totally a fan of the Constitution and I hate Communism, but I don't see how a ban on creating petroleum products just to carry stuff in is an obvious totalitarian move. There's nothing fascist about telling people they might have to find other means of toting their stuff home. Nobody has a right to a plastic bag. I remember life before plastic bags. We had paper grocery sacks (infinitely more reusable). Meat was wrapped in butcher paper. Having endured life before plastic bags, I know for a fact that I can live that way again.

 

And people who were too dumb to wash their reusable bags deserved to get sick, and needed to get sick, because that's a pretty important life lesson. Personal responsibility! Do plastic bags spring up in the wild like mushrooms after rain, or do they come from somewhere? Why are they clean enough for our food? If I put my food in something else, what condition should that container be kept in? Clean or unwashed? Should I set my groceries down on the floor in a public bathroom stall? Why or why not?

 

Aaaarrrgggghhhh

[FaithManor]

I'm sorry, but I think the debate about whether bathroom trash is liner-worthy or not is totally ridiculous.

 

When we use plastic bags, we do reuse them as Remudamom does. They don't go in the trash; they go in a holder on the wall and get used up for lots of things.

 

We prefer to use cloth bags and we reuse paper sacks.

 

I'm totally a fan of the Constitution and I hate Communism, but I don't see how a ban on creating petroleum products just to carry stuff in is an obvious totalitarian move. There's nothing fascist about telling people they might have to find other means of toting their stuff home. Nobody has a right to a plastic bag. I remember life before plastic bags. We had paper grocery sacks (infinitely more reusable). Meat was wrapped in butcher paper. Having endured life before plastic bags, I know for a fact that I can live that way again.

 

And people who were too dumb to wash their reusable bags deserved to get sick, and needed to get sick, because that's a pretty important life lesson. Personal responsibility! Do plastic bags spring up in the wild like mushrooms after rain, or do they come from somewhere? Why are they clean enough for our food? If I put my food in something else, what condition should that container be kept in? Clean or unwashed? Should I set my groceries down on the floor in a public bathroom stall? Why or why not?

 

Aaaarrrgggghhhh

 

Tibbie, have I ever told you how much I like you?

 

I'd still vote for the following ticket - Mrs. Mungo for President and Tibbie for VP.

 

Faith

[Guest inoubliable]

I try very hard to refrain from personally insulting people here, but I guess that isn't a policy everyone tries to abide by. Did you just stop trying here?

 

 

I know quite a lot of about plastics. I also know that the vast majority of that floating island of trash is made up of sturdy plastic items like soda bottles and crap from shipping containers that was dumped over in accidents. So - if you really care about the effect of plastic on the environment you have to stop using plastic COMPLETELY and have the government legislate against all plastic. How many people here (be honest) who said, "heck yeah - plastic bags are evil" (obviously joking) do not have plastic in their houses? Ok - but now - really think about that... shower curtain liner? Part of the chair you're sitting on? Pens? The keyboard you're typing on? Those lovely laminated maps? Binders? Game stations? The handles on your scissors? Plastic wrapping on items you have purchased? Sleeve protectors? Get my point? So because we can't eradicate all plastic use in our lives, we just should just say "screw it" and keep on keeping on?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Thanks, Faith!

[I.Dup.]

On that note why can't a paper bag be used in bathrooms? Also, what in the world is going into bathroom bins to make them so dirty? I'm missing something here. Are you throwing food into the bathroom bins? What?

 

Seriously? I agree it's not a necessity but we must have different cleaning standards if you don't think bathroom trash cans get nasty on a regular basis.

 

 

We line our cans. Kids are nasty. Our bins get plenty messy lined. I can not imagine unlined!

 

 

:iagree:

 

A couple of my kids get bloody noses once or twice a week in the winter, those go in the bathroom trash can. Feminine products, snotty tissues, non degradable wipes, wipes that I have used to clean with, lots of wet and juicy things. Yuck.

 

I do agree that plastic bags are not a necessity, but I do not think they are the biggest evil re: pollution. We love plastic bags around here and reuse them like crazy, for everything. We bought a hard plastic pool for our backyard that the kids completely destroyed, and now we are trying to figure out how to dispose of it properly. It's probably 6 feet in diameter of hard, thick plastic. Should have never bought it I guess, but someone is making all of this crap. Plastic toys, water bottles, plastic packaging, we come away with SO much crap after a trip to Costco- huge boxes and tons of plastic trash. I'm not going to be militant about plastic bags.

[edelweiss]

 

However, I don't want people forcing me to bring my own bags. I don't like bagging for myself and don't want to do it. In Europe, I only occasionally used the reusable bags. Often I just paid for the plastic bags. As I said, I don't like the extra step for me with remembering to bring bags, wash bags, etc. It is too much of a hassle. I don't see how banning them would save anything. If anything, the bags I buy use more plastic than the grocery or pharmacy bags.

 

 

Yep. I am not bringing cloth or reusable bags to the grocery store. I just can't be bothered to remember to do that and to have to wash them, etc. If stores want to stop using plastic and go back to paper bags-- fine. I can certainly buy my own plastic bags for use at home. If stores want to charge me $.05 for each plastic bag-- go for it. I will just add it to the cost of my groceries. I honestly don't care how they handle this as long as there is some option for me to get my groceries home.

[jeninok]

Actually, the bags are the problem.

 

I buy garbage bags that are biodegradable. They make the same for poop scoop bags. They even make bathroom sized biodegradable bags.

 

On that note why can't a paper bag be used in bathrooms? Also, what in the world is going into bathroom bins to make them so dirty? I'm missing something here. Are you throwing food into the bathroom bins? What?

 

 

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but we have a septic system, so any feminine products have to be put into the bathroom trashcan rather than flushing, even the totally biodegradable ones, I would prefer a Divacup or some other re-usable solution, but for me, they just haven't been a good option. I use a tiny step can type trash can with a latch on it to keep the dogs out, but I do line it, I use a degradable bag for it though!

 

As far as meat in reusable bags, we have a mylar/foil type bag for meat only, that looks totally different than our other bags and can be rinsed and sprayed with a bleach solution.

[SailorMom]

" So because we can't eradicate all plastic use in our lives, we just should just say "screw it" and keep on keeping on?

KKinVA, that wasn't my point. My point was that (in my opinion, obviously) legislating against plastic sacks won't do any REAL good - at least not in a "big picture" way. I'm kinda a "non-emotional" type, and I've kinda gotten a 'had it up to here' attitude about the feel-good or P/C stuff that really doesn't do much. Resources for actual change should be channeled in the most effective way. For example - airport screening. yeah - that's pretty much just done to make people feel safe so the economy wouldn't grind to a halt. Those resources are being badly used when they could be making a real difference elsewhere. The war against oil.... yeah - until I start hearing an outcry against methane I'm thinking it is more political than anything else, lol. I think we should be looking for alternatives, sure, but it's like giving the public a bogey monster to focus on while the real issues go on unnoticed. I also never said we should just "keep on keepin' on" and if you didn't read my earlier post, I do use other bags as well as plastic. I, however, rely on my own personal responsibility to the world and not someone slapping my wist for using an evil plastic sack. I also drive clean diesel (about 45 mpg) because I think it is important, I try not to use chemicals for the environment and public health, I don't fertilize my lawn because I live by the coast, I buy as much naturally processed/free range/clean food as I can, etc., etc., but I don't do it because the government told me to. One last note: the government and publicly funded scientists are frequently wrong. They change their minds about what we should and shouldn't do regularly. So - do we really want anything like this legislated? Not specifically plastic sacks - but for example - fluoride in the water. Turns out it isn't such a hot idea... thanks Big Gov.

[delaney]

Common sense does not prevail and if it did we would be in good shape. If you don't recycle then don't use plastic and glass. If you have no money don't keep having kids. If you are on food stamps don't spend them at 7-11....and the list goes on. We are a nation of entitlement. No one should have to tell anyone how to behave responsibly and do right by their families(not short term unexpected issues). I use recyclable bags until I need some to gather recycling in. I gather any cans or bottles in them, take them out and put them in the big blue bag. I can carry double the amount in reusable bags so why use anything else! PLUS I made some really lovely ones out of old curtain material and it is way stronger than the ones you buy in the store.

[delaney]

Speaking of washing those reusable bags, I seem to have no luck. They start to fall apart after the first washing. It stinks. And I buy good bags, not the cheapest things.

Don't wash-just soak in a very mild bleach solution and hang to dry. Like 1 cap for a sinkfull diluted.

[AimeeM]

I wouldn't call it "communist", but I disagree with the petition and wouldn't sign it personally (nor would my husband).

[delaney]

Yep. I am not bringing cloth or reusable bags to the grocery store. I just can't be bothered to remember to do that and to have to wash them, etc. If stores want to stop using plastic and go back to paper bags-- fine. I can certainly buy my own plastic bags for use at home. If stores want to charge me $.05 for each plastic bag-- go for it. I will just add it to the cost of my groceries. I honestly don't care how they handle this as long as there is some option for me to get my groceries home.

So is it also a hassle to carpool, conserve energy, or do anything else that saves the earth? I don't get that attitude from someone who takes such a huge inconvenience as homeschooling onto their shoulders. You use them, wash them once every few weeks, put them in your trunk. Hard?

[Mom-ninja.]

Seriously? I agree it's not a necessity but we must have different cleaning standards if you don't think bathroom trash cans get nasty on a regular basis.

 

 

 

Huh, where did I say that trash bins don't get dirty on a regular basis? I seem to remember saying that it's simple to clean them when I empty them. Empty bin, spray with cleaning solution, wipe. Or empty bin, add few drops soap, add water, swish around, dump water. Or better yet.....have kids empty/clean it.

 

I guess you picture my house to be not as clean as yours because I don't use plastic bags. Okay.

[SailorMom]

Common sense does not prevail and if it did we would be in good shape. If you don't recycle then don't use plastic and glass. If you have no money don't keep having kids. If you are on food stamps don't spend them at 7-11....and the list goes on. We are a nation of entitlement. No one should have to tell anyone how to behave responsibly and do right by their families(not short term unexpected issues).

It sure seems like common sense is prevailing less and less every year. I honestly think part of that is because the government has been legislating things that shouldn't be in their sphere of influence. Of course, a lot of that was brought on by frivolous lawsuits, lol.

[In The Great White North]

One last note: the government and publicly funded scientists are frequently wrong. They change their minds about what we should and shouldn't do regularly. So - do we really want anything like this legislated? Not specifically plastic sacks - but for example - fluoride in the water. Turns out it isn't such a hot idea... thanks Big Gov.

 

This. Back in the day, I remember grocery stores being forced to change to plastic bags and everyone being upset about losing their paper bags. The plastic ones were supposedly so much better for the environment because you didn't have to cut down any trees!

 

If stores want to charge me $.05 for each plastic bag-- go for it. I will just add it to the cost of my groceries.

 

The stores are ALREADY charging you for the bags. It's included in the price just like heating and lights. And none of the stores that have switched to "bring your own bags" have lowered their prices. at. all.

[Ellie]

 

When we use plastic bags, we do reuse them as Remudamom does. They don't go in the trash; they go in a holder on the wall and get used up for lots of things.

 

 

But eventually they *do* go in the trash, right? I mean, if you put something in them that's disposable, eventually you're going to dispose of the whole bag, right?

[delaney]

It sure seems like common sense is prevailing less and less every year. I honestly think part of that is because the government has been legislating things that shouldn't be in their sphere of influence. Of course, a lot of that was brought on by frivolous lawsuits, lol.

Oh you mean like the big WARNING your hot coffee might really be hot label on the McDonald's cups??? People are lazy and ridiculous a lot of the time and want everything for nothing. We need a nanny state to babysit all the irresponsible people.

[Mom-ninja.]

Speaking of washing those reusable bags, I seem to have no luck. They start to fall apart after the first washing. It stinks. And I buy good bags, not the cheapest things.

 

Turn inside out and hand wash or wash on gentle cycle. Hang dry only. You can also wipe them out with cleansing wipes....whether store bought wipes or your own. Also, you can turn inside out and just spray them with vinegar or bleach solution and let air dry.

[delaney]

I also have an irrational hang up about the reusable bags. Many stores have been more encouraging about it, but for a long time stores were very anti bringing bags from the outside in. The whole "we reserve the right to inspect your bags" thing. I hate going in there with a bunch of bags and wondering if someone is going to inspect my bags. I know, silly!

This is why I love Giant near me. Grab the hand scanner, scan and bag as I go, and whisk through checkout. I get the bags packed the way I like and they even give me 5 cents per reusable bag! and gas points!

[J-rap]

I'm really tired of the plastic bag overload, although I'm not quite ready to sign a petition. I wish I could get into the habit of bringing reusable bags. The little grocery stores I've been to in Europe usually charge a fee if you don't bring your own, and I think that's very reasonable. Part of the problem with the U.S., I think, is that we have mega size grocery stores where we can do two-weeks' worth of shopping, and would need so many reusable bags (completely doable of course, just a habit needing to transition to, that's all). In Europe -- as in Manhattan -- people seem to shop more for just a day or two, so it's easy to stick a reusable bag in your purse and always have it handy. I wish we had a little neighborhood grocer on every other corner.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

But eventually they *do* go in the trash, right? I mean, if you put something in them that's disposable, eventually you're going to dispose of the whole bag, right?

 

Well, yes, of course. I was just saying what I do with them when they do appear in my home, not trying to imply that they never hit the landfills where they fail to bio-degrade. As I said, I do use reusable bags and prefer paper sacks if I have to have any store sacks.

[Mergath]

http://www.seattlepi...ore-4314744.php

 

Not sure if anyone shared this - but in Seattle they're having a huge problem with shoplifting after a ban on single use bags.

 

It's assumed that the single use bags aren't recycled.... I both recycle them through our curbside recycling, or use them to pick up after my dog.

 

I agree with you DH. I am happy to recycle - because I feel it's the right thing to do - but it's not the purpose of the government to make me do it.

 

This article makes no sense. If someone wants to shoplift via reusable bags, they can do it anywhere, anytime. They don't have to wait for a plastic bag ban. How would decreasing the use of plastic bags make people want to steal more, anyway? I really doubt anyone goes into a store and thinks, well, I was going to pay for my groceries, but since I had to bring in my handy canvas tote I think I'll just steal everything.

[TeacherZee]

I pay for my biodegradable plastic bags in the supermarket. I still get the bags sometimes, and sometimes I bring my own reusable bags *shrug* But then I live in a commie country ;)

[TeacherZee]

 

That's not true everywhere in Europe though. I have heard more people say that and I have yet to see it for myself.

 

Not true here, most people shop for a week or so at a time, maybe pop in mid week to get milk and bread, but most people do a big shop about once a week. I certainly do, as do my parents and my sister.

[Flowing Brook]

I think it goes against the constitution to ban them. It takes away our freedom of choice.

To me it is the same as Massachusetts putting a ban in some towns on selling bottled water.

[I.Dup.]

 

I guess you picture my house to be not as clean as yours because I don't use plastic bags. Okay.

 

Nope, you just seemed very confused and distraught over the fact that bathroom trash cans get dirty, lol. I would rather not add "scrub out bathroom trash cans" on a daily basis to the list of ever-growing chores I need to do, I very much appreciate just lining it with a plastic bag. :)

[TeacherZee]

 

Thank you! I think people think Europe is filled with cute little mom and pop stores and everyone lives in walking distance and does all their shopping in tiny places. It's not like that everywhere! My MIL shops at a warehouse store that's as big as any Costco any day. She also shops for the week. And so does everyone else in the family (and they all live in different cities).

 

No mom and pop store here, although the supermarket where I shop is fairly small, they know me, and I walk there :rolleyes: But I live in a small town and I just have me to shop for. My sister shops in a supermarket the size of an air plane hangar :D

 

When I lived in the UK I shopped at a Tesco the size of an air plane hangar. :D

[Word Nerd]

If stores want to charge a fee for plastic bags, I have no problem with it. I think bans are ridiculous and would not sign a petition for one. I'm opposed to people trying impose their personal beliefs on others and legislate their moral choices. I use reusable bags and also plastic bags, which I reuse in other ways. I don't need a ban to make me.

[VeganCupcake]

Actually, the bags are the problem.

 

I buy garbage bags that are biodegradable. They make the same for poop scoop bags. They even make bathroom sized biodegradable bags.

 

On that note why can't a paper bag be used in bathrooms? Also, what in the world is going into bathroom bins to make them so dirty? I'm missing something here. Are you throwing food into the bathroom bins? What?

 

A lot of biodegradable plastic just photodegrades into tiny pieces of plastic, rather than one big piece. Like plastic slurry--which is what the Pacific Garbage Patch mostly is.

 

The plastic bags are recyclable. One can return them to the store. It would be even nicer if our local recycling company would take them in the recycling bins though.

 

I also would love it if stores would stop forcing bags on you. I've never actually attempted it, but I'd be fine without having a bag many times. Even if I have a lot of stuff. I'd just throw it in the trunk if I forgot my bags, and go home and bag it and carry it in. I just get the impression the store would freak out if I did that. I mean you can't even walk out with a case of soda without them having to slap stickers on it.

 

Most plastic shopping bags are such thin and low-quality plastic that not very many products can be made from them. There is some kind of composite lumber product made from them, though. Most of the store bins where they say you can recycle your bags are not recycling them at all. They don't make it that far. It's a kind of greenwashing.

[TravelingChris]

The thing is that everyone has different opinions on how to save the environment. I , for example, hate wood burning. It creates air pollution and particularly a type of air pollution that is very harmful to humans (and probably to animals too).

[I.Dup.]

The thing is that everyone has different opinions on how to save the environment. I , for example, hate wood burning. It creates air pollution and particularly a type of air pollution that is very harmful to humans (and probably to animals too).

 

Recycling is also very harmful to the environment in many ways, especially aluminum, from what I have heard.

[pdalley]

Actually, the bags are the problem.

 

I buy garbage bags that are biodegradable. They make the same for poop scoop bags. They even make bathroom sized biodegradable bags.

 

On that note why can't a paper bag be used in bathrooms? Also, what in the world is going into bathroom bins to make them so dirty? I'm missing something here. Are you throwing food into the bathroom bins? What?

 

 

The boys use wipes, not TP and we don't flush them because they aren't compatible with that. I use disposable female hygiene products. Therefore I line my bathroom trashcans. I don't see what the big deal is. I don't care who lines theirs or not. That's just the way things are in my house.

 

On the topic of the thread? I do reuse the bags for all sorts of things. I also use the canvas bags and I do wash them. But meat or anything that could leak in them squicks me out. It's my OCD that would make me not ever think of it as clean again. I'd either throw it away or wash it so many times I'd be wasting water.

[Mom-ninja.]

 

Nope, you just seemed very confused and distraught over the fact that bathroom trash cans get dirty, lol. I would rather not add "scrub out bathroom trash cans" on a daily basis to the list of ever-growing chores I need to do, I very much appreciate just lining it with a plastic bag. :)

 

Eh, that's what kids are for. Cause one really doesn't have to scrub. I think people seem confused and distraught over their perception of just how dirty bath trash cans get. Many here have made it sound like a necessity to have a liner. I'm pointing out that one doesn't. And it's not hard to not have one. Everyone was practically yelling, "OMG! That's disgusting! How can you not have a plastic liner? Gross gross gross."

 

There are cultures in which it is considered nasty to blow your nose into a tissue and then put that tissue in your pocket. They believe the sanitary thing to do it to blow out the snot onto the ground (outside I'm assuming), and they view anything else as gross. In our culture we would be revolted if someone did that outside on the sidewalk. They are revolted by our tissues in our pockets.

 

It's all what your perception is.

[AimeeM]

And it shouldn't be a free choice. I make the choice to purchase biodegradable plastic garbage bags. I don't see why I should have to pay for my choice of bag and others don't. Especially when the "free" bag is harmful to everyone. I have to pay more for my choice of trying reducing my footprint. Why is that?

 

So I'm not anti-choice. I'm anti free plastic bags.

 

If one wants convenience one should pay for it. I love the convenience of paper towels to clean things like dog vomit and the rats' cage. However, I pay for paper towels. Stores don't hand them out for free.

I'm sure the plastic bags aren't "free" - I'm sure the cost, like any cost the store incurs, is figured into the way they price their items.

[regentrude]

Thank you! I think people think Europe is filled with cute little mom and pop stores and everyone lives in walking distance and does all their shopping in tiny places. It's not like that everywhere! My MIL shops at a warehouse store that's as big as any Costco any day. She also shops for the week. And so does everyone else in the family (and they all live in different cities).

 

My parents occasionally drive to a larger supermarket to stock up on staples, but my mother walks to the store every other day or so to buy bread, fruit and vegetables. All my friends and relatives in Germany shop like that. Fresh bread and rolls from the corner bakery are much better than week old supermarket bread.

Even if you don't shop at the tiny mom and pop store, in the larger cities most places have smaller supermarkets within walking distance. Quite a few people in cities do not own cars. When we last lived in Germany we did not.

[Elinor Everywhere]

The thing is that everyone has different opinions on how to save the environment. I , for example, hate wood burning. It creates air pollution and particularly a type of air pollution that is very harmful to humans (and probably to animals too).

 

 

This is what I see, too. Somebody may use plastic bags but choose to recycle and compost nearly all their personal garbage, carpool or take public transportation, use "green" and natural cleaners, cook food from scratch, etc. And they may think your use of bags is fine, but if you do one of the aforementioned things you are ruining the planet. People love to be righteous!

 

For me, I bring my reusable Trader Joe's bags with me, I recycle a lot but I don't compost, I rarely carpool and my city is sprawling and doesn't have very good public transportation. I do try and use natural cleaners but I usually end up giving a good scrubbing now and then with toxic ones...somehow it feels cleaner. :tongue_smilie:

 

Bottom line is that I do what I do, and I try and make a difference in my small way. My biggest thing is food safety, so I choose to ignore Monsanto as much as possible by NOT buying their products and doing organic/grass-fed/blah-bity-blah about 90%. But I'm lucky that I can afford to do so, and don't come down on those who can't. But if one CAN, I wish one would. :D

 

ETA: Oh, and when we lived in a very large Asian city, we had no car, and walked or took the metro/ferry everywhere. I love living without a car! When we're in France we shop about every 5 days at Carrefour and every couple of days at the small independent shops (boulangerie, patisserie, etc). At Carrefour we have to buy a large bag, and then we just use those for the small shops.

[regentrude]

Bet the stores loved that!

 

The stores are actually required by law to take back any excess packaging that is not necessary to contain the item safely.

Cardboard boxes around a tube of tooth paste? Not needed, can be left at the store, since the tooth paste is perfectly fine in just the tube.

What you can not do is open your yoghurt container and refill it into the pot you brought from home and leave the yoghurt tub - but the cardboard that holds four containers together can be left, since the yoghurt is sufficiently packed in the individual containers

 

So families' garbage was limited but stores could have as much as they want? Sounds like a hassle, not a net reduction.

 

The families are actually NOT directly limited in how much trash they are allowed to have - trash cans are simply not as big as in the US. And taking the cardboard packaging home means that you have to take it back to the recycling bin, since cardboard does not go into the household trash.

Forcing the stores to deal with the excess packaging has an effect in reducing excess packaging. The store/manufacturer creates the problem, he should deal with it - not the customer who does not need his food triple packed.

[edelweiss]

So is it also a hassle to carpool, conserve energy, or do anything else that saves the earth? I don't get that attitude from someone who takes such a huge inconvenience as homeschooling onto their shoulders. You use them, wash them once every few weeks, put them in your trunk. Hard?

 

 

Eh, not hard, just not a priority for me. I have enough inconveniences as it is, this just isn't something high on my list of things to care about. I reuse or recycle my plastic bags, but that is as far as I'm willing to go at this point. Trying to remember to bring reusable bags (I actually have a few in my trunk, but I never, ever, ever remember to bring them in) and then having to worry about washing them is just more than I care to deal with right now.

[TeacherZee]

The stores are actually required by law to take back any excess packaging that is not necessary to contain the item safely.

Cardboard boxes around a tube of tooth paste? Not needed, can be left at the store, since the tooth paste is perfectly fine in just the tube.

What you can not do is open your yoghurt container and refill it into the pot you brought from home and leave the yoghurt tub - but the cardboard that holds four containers together can be left, since the yoghurt is sufficiently packed in the individual containers

 

 

 

The families are actually NOT directly limited in how much trash they are allowed to have - trash cans are simply not as big as in the US. And taking the cardboard packaging home means that you have to take it back to the recycling bin, since cardboard does not go into the household trash.

Forcing the stores to deal with the excess packaging has an effect in reducing excess packaging. The store/manufacturer creates the problem, he should deal with it - not the customer who does not need his food triple packed.

 

:iagree: And it makes me happy. I don't NEED all that extra packaging. I was absolutely FURIOUS when I bought an ice cream the other year and realised that there was a plastic wrap inside the box it came in. It would have been enough with just the wrap. No need for the box as well.

[Ellie]

 

My parents occasionally drive to a larger supermarket to stock up on staples, but my mother walks to the store every other day or so to buy bread, fruit and vegetables. All my friends and relatives in Germany shop like that. Fresh bread and rolls from the corner bakery are much better than week old supermarket bread.

 

Even if you don't shop at the tiny mom and pop store, in the larger cities most places have smaller supermarkets within walking distance. Quite a few people in cities do not own cars. When we last lived in Germany we did not.

 

In the U.S.? I've never lived in a city that had a smaller supermarket within walking distance.

[regentrude]

In the U.S.? I've never lived in a city that had a smaller supermarket within walking distance.

 

The poster to whom I responded was talking about Europe. So, my response referred to Europe, specifically Germany, as I wrote.

[VeritasMama]

In cities that have already banned plastic bags there are reports of increased shoplifting and widespread infections related to reusable bags.

 

http://www.seattlepi...ore-4314744.php

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_2641430.html

 

There are other ways to fight littering, it seems the local culture may have something to do with this. I've never been anywhere with a plastic bag littering problem, but there are bins to recycle plastic bags in the entry way of most of the major grocery stores here, and everyone I know reuses or recycles their bags, myself included.

 

Common sense would be finding the simplest and easiest solution possible to solve any problem. It seems to me there must be an easier, simpler way to solve the problem of littering without causing those who do not litter to alter their behavior. I'm tired of authoritarian bans that cause law abiding citizens headaches because of the bad behavior of others. That is not common sense, it is totalitarian.

[Ellie]

So is it also a hassle to carpool, conserve energy, or do anything else that saves the earth? I don't get that attitude from someone who takes such a huge inconvenience as homeschooling onto their shoulders. You use them, wash them once every few weeks, put them in your trunk. Hard?

 

Carpooling only works in very limited situations, none of which are doctor appointments, grocery shopping, attending church, or most of the things I do in my life. Mr. Ellie has carpooled for his job (or taken public transportation) when it has been possible; most of his working life, it has not been possible.

 

I try to conserve energy because it saves me money.

 

My goal in life is not to "save the earth." I'm not worried about my "footprint." I think it's important to use natural resources wisely, so that we'll have them, but I also think we should actually use them.

 

Plastic grocery bags are not, of course, a natural resource. Consumers didn't ask for plastic; someone, somewhere, thought they'd be a good idea and began manufacturing them. We could get along just fine with paper bags, which are biodegradable and are from a renewable resource (you can grow trees specifically for making paper products).

[I.Dup.]

 

:iagree: And it makes me happy. I don't NEED all that extra packaging. I was absolutely FURIOUS when I bought an ice cream the other year and realised that there was a plastic wrap inside the box it came in. It would have been enough with just the wrap. No need for the box as well.

 

i agree. Excess packaging does upset me. If we're going to focus on waste, that's more of an issue IMO.