S/o of reusable bag thread: Would you sign a petition?

[Mergath]

How would you feel if someone demanded you use single use bags when you wanted to use reusable ones? That's how I feel about people trying to force me to use reusable ones instead of single use ones. I think if you sign a petition forcing people then you're not a lover of freedom or someone who respects the rights of others-sorry. I won't demand the government force you to bag groceries my way and I expect you, or anyone else claiming to care about freedom, not to demand government force me to do it your way. That's true of what I buy, how I bag it, how I choose to school my kids, who or how I worship, what medical treatments I choose for myself and my dependent children, what I read, what I say, what I eat, what I think, etc. etc. etc.

 

I agree that people throwing their trash anywhere other than a trash can when they're not on their own property should be fined and those funds can be used to hire people to take care of trash. There's no excuse for that. I also routinely take a plastic bag when I go for walks and pick up any trash I see because trash doesn't pick itself up and I don't want to look at it. Instead of tut tut tutting about others, I just do it myself because I know in the real world if you want something done you have to do it yourself.

 

I noticed a few years ago that when the trash or recycling trucks come on windy days, the wind can blow trash falling from the bins into the back of the truck into the street. That wasn't anyone's fault. You can't fight the weather. So I just stopped complaining and started taking the bag with me for walks after windy weather.

 

The other view on constitutionality is that the only things you're NOT allowed to do is what the Constitution specifically grants to government-everything else the people are free to choose or decline themselves-even if they choose badly. I only need to mother my children-not the rest of the citizens. I feel no compulsion to manage the lives of others. That's the price of living in a free society-it's better than the alternative. The role of government is to stop people from violating the rights of citizens and to stop the government from violating the rights of citizens. It's not the role of government to force people to make what someone decides is a better or the best decision.

 

Yes, I'm a card carrying registered Libertarian.

 

 

Oh good grief. :rolleyes: Yes, that's why some of us don't like the widespread usage of plastic bags. Because we hate freedom. First they came for the plastic bags, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a plastic bag...

 

You may want to recheck your Constitution. I don't know about yours, but mine doesn't say that you can do anything you want if the Constitution doesn't prohibit it. Quite the contrary. It says that the things not covered by the Constitution are up to the states. So a state or local government banning plastic bags is quite constitutional. The role of the government is to govern, not to let you flit about doing whatever you feel like.

 

Why is it that the people who use the Constitution to prop up their arguments are the ones who seem to have never read it? :glare:

[Heather in Neverland]

First they came for the plastic bags, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a plastic bag...

 

 

:smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5:

 

 

I don't really care about the bag debacle either way, but this almost made diet coke come out my nose!

 

FWIW (which I acknowledge is not much), Penang has been charging for plastic bags everywhere (not just grocery stores... the mall, too) for several years now. It is the equivalent of about 7 cents (in USD) per bag. But it wasn't a litter issue so much as "no room on the island for a landfill" issue.

[Flowing Brook]

The right to be given (not to purchase, but to be given) a product or service is not a Libertarian concept.

 

Nobody is saying we have the right to be given the plastic bags. we/I am saying the government local or federal should not have the right to ban a product whether it be plastic bag or water bottles. They should not have the right to ban wood burning.

 

 

Also I do not see where anyone has said we are owed the right to a grocery store.

 

The op asked about a petition would we sign one that would ban plastic reusable shopping bags.

I personally do not think that should be allowed. Stores should be allowed to choose whether to give them out for free,charge for them or not use them all together.

[Lisbeth]

I am sooo late to this party. But for the record, I was here. And I wouldn't sign a petition. I would pay for plastic bags, because hey - I want my plastic bags for use around the house. And I buy hundreds of dollars of groceries a pop, and I don't feel like hauling that many reusable bags to the store.

 

If they went to pay-per-bag though, wouldn't we soon hear something about it would discriminate against poor people?

 

I mean, then only the rich would get plastic bags. :tongue_smilie:

[Plateau Mama]

I am sooo late to this party. But for the record, I was here. And I wouldn't sign a petition. I would pay for plastic bags, because hey - I want my plastic bags for use around the house. And I buy hundreds of dollars of groceries a pop, and I don't feel like hauling that many reusable bags to the store.

 

If they went to pay-per-bag though, wouldn't we soon hear something about it would discriminate against poor people?

 

I mean, then only the rich would get plastic bags. :tongue_smilie:

The cities in Washington that have the ban give low income people ONE reusable bag. I guess if you have a couple of kids that gives you 4 bags to use? (Although I don't know if they give bags to kids or just adults.) It also takes longer for your groceries to be bagged. They used to a certain type of bag and when you start throwing different size bags at them they get confused.

[EmilyK]

Like Moira, I live in Portland, and life has gone on fine with our bag ban. But for humor I offer this Portlandia sketch:

 

http://www.ifc.com/portlandia/videos/portlandia-no-grocery-bag

[EmilyK]

oops, here's a better link:

 

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/no-grocery-bag/17wskpzog?cpkey=c8c03f7e-d9ad-4799-b316-b332580dcb78%7C%7C%7C%7C

[Dandelion]

Like Moira, I live in Portland, and life has gone on fine with our bag ban. But for humor I offer this Portlandia sketch:

 

http://www.ifc.com/p...-no-grocery-bag

 

:smilielol5:

[TeacherZee]

When I forget my fabric bags, I try for the brown paper bags but we finally now recyle both types so I'm happy with that. I have been to Europe in the past 10 years and I noticed that NO ONE used plastic bags there ever. They all had very cute fabric or net bags. I cannot help buy wonder why Europe doesn't have major problems with germy fabric bags. It feels like just another reason Europe trumps us, just like they have a much better grip on the GMO issue. Americans settle for crap so easily.

 

Honestly before this thread I had never even considered that reusable bags would be germy. I've never had a problem with anything leaking in them and everything is in packaging. If they do get yucky since I use them for other things (I once stuffed my travel mug into one thinking it was empty, it wasn't oops) I just chuck them into the washer.

 

Handles. Convenience. Plastic is waterproof. Cost. I rather like the paper bags with handles that Whole Foods and other stores use now. They don't cut into my hands the way plastic bags do.

 

Our paper bags all have handles, I often get plastic though because I have problems with fibro in my hands and I can put the plastic once around my wrists rather than carrying them in my hand (I walk to the grocery store).

[Brilliant]

I'm trying to wrap my head around what it must be like to be married to someone who clearly doesn't know the definition of words he uses. If my DH called this "communism," I'd wrap a plastic bag around his head.

 

Wow. I'm sure my dh is glad he's married to me.

 

And he used the word during our lively discussion in the same sense that many posters here used it - to argue that we should consider carefully where we allow our government to intrude/control small aspects of our lives.

[Brilliant]

 

 

In the U.S.? I've never lived in a city that had a smaller supermarket within walking distance.

Do you mean you've never lived in a Neighborhood with a supermarket within walking distance? Because I've never seen a supermarket that didn't have housing within walking distance. Whether we choose to live in that neighborhood or not is a different matter!

[Brilliant]

 

 

That's 'cuz we're so kewl. :laugh:

Or too much time on our hands? Maybe we should all be out there picking up trash off roadways instead. :)

[Ellie]

Do you mean you've never lived in a Neighborhood with a supermarket within walking distance? Because I've never seen a supermarket that didn't have housing within walking distance. Whether we choose to live in that neighborhood or not is a different matter!

 

 

No. That is, not if I want something closer than one mile. There were, of course, homes closer to those stores than my house; I'm just saying that *I* have never lived close enough to walk. I'm not going to buy a week's worth of groceries that I have to walk a mile to carry home. It isn't always possible--as in never, in my case--to buy a house based on how close to a grocery store it is. I have no qualms about getting into my car and driving that mile.

[Ellie]

Drat. double post ::head desk::

[Ellie]

 

Nobody is saying we have the right to be given the plastic bags. we/I am saying the government local or federal should not have the right to ban a product whether it be plastic bag or water bottles. They should not have the right to ban wood burning.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

 

The op asked about a petition would we sign one that would ban plastic reusable shopping bags.

 

I personally do not think that should be allowed. Stores should be allowed to choose whether to give them out for free,charge for them or not use them all together.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[Word Nerd]

Honestly before this thread I had never even considered that reusable bags would be germy.

 

Despite the mockery expressed by some posters about this point, studies have found significant amounts of bacteria—including E. coli—on reusable bags. People should wash them regularly.

 

Large numbers of bacteria were found in almost all bags and coliform bacteria in half. Escherichia coli were identified in 12% of the bags and a wide range of enteric bacteria, including several opportunistic pathogens. When meat juices were added to bags and stored in the trunks of cars for two hours the number of bacteria increased 10-fold indicating the potential for bacterial growth in the bags. Hand or machine washing was found to reduce the bacteria in bags by >99.9%. These results indicate that reusable bags can play a significant role in the cross contamination of foods if not properly washed on a regular basis.

[In The Great White North]

Do you mean you've never lived in a Neighborhood with a supermarket within walking distance? Because I've never seen a supermarket that didn't have housing within walking distance. Whether we choose to live in that neighborhood or not is a different matter!

 

5 of the 6 grocery stores within an hour of here do not have housing near them. They are at Interstate exits and serve the population within about a 50 mile radius.

 

The one that is near housing is in the middle of a very pricey college town - if you can't afford a car to drive to the grocery store, then you can't afford to live there either!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Despite the mockery expressed by some posters about this point, studies have found significant amounts of bacteria—including E. coli—on reusable bags. People should wash them regularly.

 

Large numbers of bacteria were found in almost all bags and coliform bacteria in half. Escherichia coli were identified in 12% of the bags and a wide range of enteric bacteria, including several opportunistic pathogens. When meat juices were added to bags and stored in the trunks of cars for two hours the number of bacteria increased 10-fold indicating the potential for bacterial growth in the bags. Hand or machine washing was found to reduce the bacteria in bags by >99.9%. These results indicate that reusable bags can play a significant role in the cross contamination of foods if not properly washed on a regular basis.

 

As the quote demonstrates, the only thing that makes reusable bags harbor bacteria is that some people are too stupid to keep them clean. The bags themselves are not a source of germs.

[TeacherZee]

Despite the mockery expressed by some posters about this point, studies have found significant amounts of bacteria—including E. coli—on reusable bags. People should wash them regularly.

 

Large numbers of bacteria were found in almost all bags and coliform bacteria in half. Escherichia coli were identified in 12% of the bags and a wide range of enteric bacteria, including several opportunistic pathogens. When meat juices were added to bags and stored in the trunks of cars for two hours the number of bacteria increased 10-fold indicating the potential for bacterial growth in the bags. Hand or machine washing was found to reduce the bacteria in bags by >99.9%. These results indicate that reusable bags can play a significant role in the cross contamination of foods if not properly washed on a regular basis.

As the quote demonstrates, the only thing that makes reusable bags harbor bacteria is that some people are too stupid to keep them clean. The bags themselves are not a source of germs.

 

Well see that's my confusion, if your bag got meat juices in them why WOULDN'T you wash them? That is nasty.

[edelweiss]

Well see that's my confusion, if your bag got meat juices in them why WOULDN'T you wash them? That is nasty.

 

 

 

Yeah, that is gross. I wouldn't wash the bag though. I would just throw it out. Nasty!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Never mind.

[Catwoman]

Or too much time on our hands? Maybe we should all be out there picking up trash off roadways instead. :)

 

OK, but first let's stop at the grocery store and swipe a big stack of plastic bags from the checkout counter so we'll have someplace to put the trash. :D

[Jennifer3141]

Yeah, that is gross. I wouldn't wash the bag though. I would just throw it out. Nasty!

 

Uh, using that logic you should throw your plates out instead of washing them and underwear would be a one time use thing... :laugh:

 

I am gobsmacked that so many people don't get how to wash stuff. There are a whole lot of houses here I'm very happy I'll never be inside in. I know I've got some OCD issues but yuck,

[LibraryLover]

Ban the plastic bag.

 

I've lived in commie-town Ocean Beach in San Diego, and was a member of The Ocean Beach People's Food Coop. I still have two of their canvas bags from 20 years ago. They logo is pleasantly faded from all of the washing, and the canvas is still solid. Absolutely the road to fascism.

[delaney]

There is a community on Fire Island where it is illegal to walk around with straws or disposable cups. I believe if people can't be trusted to do what is obviously better for the earth then they need to be told. They tell us what lanes we can drive in during rush hour, whether or not we can hold phones while driving, and even if we can be out after dark as a teen in some places. Why not limit an environmental hazard that has other options? Aldi is a fine example of cutting down the fluff to offer lower prices. No fancy shelves and no bags. Pass on the savings and you will get results.

[VeganCupcake]

Despite the mockery expressed by some posters about this point, studies have found significant amounts of bacteria—including E. coli—on reusable bags. People should wash them regularly.

 

Large numbers of bacteria were found in almost all bags and coliform bacteria in half. Escherichia coli were identified in 12% of the bags and a wide range of enteric bacteria, including several opportunistic pathogens. When meat juices were added to bags and stored in the trunks of cars for two hours the number of bacteria increased 10-fold indicating the potential for bacterial growth in the bags. Hand or machine washing was found to reduce the bacteria in bags by >99.9%. These results indicate that reusable bags can play a significant role in the cross contamination of foods if not properly washed on a regular basis.

 

 

That stuff is everywhere anyway--computer keyboards, toothbrushes, money, kitchen sponges.

[edelweiss]

Uh, using that logic you should throw your plates out instead of washing them and underwear would be a one time use thing... :laugh:

 

I am gobsmacked that so many people don't get how to wash stuff. There are a whole lot of houses here I'm very happy I'll never be inside in. I know I've got some OCD issues but yuck,

 

 

LOL! Sorry, but grocery bags = disposable to me. They always will. I don't care if it is plastic or paper, and I will certainly reuse/repurpose them for other trash (or recycle them), but that's how I roll. :coolgleamA:

[Word Nerd]

There is a community on Fire Island where it is illegal to walk around with straws or disposable cups.

 

:blink: A plastic bag ban does sound more reasonable when compared to that ordinance. Perhaps a campaign like "At least our laws aren't as stupid as XYZ City's!" could be used as a strategy to make bag bans more palatable.

[FaithManor]

Well, you know...we've had some rather restrictive laws in the past that weren't considered unconstitutional - City of Detroit - it is illegal to let your pig run free in the streets unless it has a nose ring. It is illegal to scowl at your wife on Sunday. It is illegal to tie your alligator to a fire hydrant. One is prohibited from throwing an abandoned hoop skirt into the street on penalty of a $5.00 fine...almost makes me wish I had an "abandoned hoop skirt" just so I could give it a toss in front of the county courthouse and see if the local police are well schooled in the law. :D

 

It is illegal to paint sparrows to sell as parakeets.

 

And one of the most intrusive laws of them all, in the city of Rochester and still on the books, "All bathing suits must be inspected by the head of police."

 

I don't know, a city ban on plastic bags doesn't sound so bad in light of the bathing suit thing! God forbid the city of Rochester begin enforcing it again. Detroit and everything around it has enough trouble without headlining Dateline with a bunch of boys and their speedos and girls with their bikinis complaining about the draconian laws of their neighborhood. Good gravy! That's just all we need. :biggrinjester:

 

Of course, in Columbus, GA it is illegal to tease an idiot. I wonder who gets to be the judge and jury on that one? :lol:

 

Faith - thought this was better than introducing a kilt since I couldn't find a pick of a kilt wearer toting a plastic bag

[Catwoman]

 

It is illegal to paint sparrows to sell as parakeets.

 

 

 

 

Well, shoot.

 

Now what am I going to do with all these stupid birds? :cursing:

[nmoira]

 

 

 

Well, shoot.

 

Now what am I going to do with all these stupid birds? :cursing:

 

 

Sing a song of sixpence?

[Catwoman]

Sing a song of sixpence?

 

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Word Nerd]

Sing a song of sixpence?

 

 

Just don't get any ideas about baking them in a pie.

[Catwoman]

 

Just don't get any ideas about baking them in a pie.

 

 

:D :D :D :D

 

 

Is there a law against that, too???? :scared:

[Plateau Mama]

 

 

 

Well see that's my confusion, if your bag got meat juices in them why WOULDN'T you wash them? That is nasty.

 

 

It not always apparent that something got spilled.

 

Personally, I can hardly keep up with laundry for my family of 5. I'm not going to take on additional washing unless absolutely needed.

[EmilyK]

 

Just don't get any ideas about baking them in a pie.

 

 

it is unsanitary.

[nmoira]

it is unsanitary.

 

 

Not if cooked to an internal temperature of 185F.

[EmilyK]

But when they fly out they might leave meat juices.

[Word Nerd]

it is unsanitary.

 

 

And pie has gluten.

[Catwoman]

it is unsanitary.

 

Not if cooked to an internal temperature of 185F.

 

But when they fly out they might leave meat juices.

 

And pie has gluten.

 

 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

 

 

OK, so apparently the pie idea isn't going to work out....

[Word Nerd]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

 

 

 

OK, so apparently the pie idea isn't going to work out....

 

 

We didn't even have to ban it!

[LibraryLover]

And ya can't spit in public in Singapore, or chew gum! All of those folks living a high quality of life there are really pissed.

 

But not really.

[Catwoman]

And ya can't spit in public in Singapore, or chew gum! All of those folks living a high quality of life there are really pissed.

 

But not really.

 

Do I even want to ask what happens if you spit your gum? :eek: