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9yo had seizure at school - UPDATE POST 34


JeneralMom
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I got a call Weds from my kids' school that my son had a seizure and I needed to come in to meet with them. It was a shock. I was grocery shopping so I didn't pick up the call because it came in as "private number" so I got a cryptic message about a medical issue, not an emergency, but I needed to call the school and come have a meeting with them after school. Luckily, the special education assistant (who also happens to be the first aid trained responder) was in his class doing reading with a group of kids and it was S' turn, so he was standing right in front of her. She saw it start to happen and was able to grab him before he fell and hit his head. She said he was talking and then suddenly his head jerked to the right, his arms spasmed and both hands came up to his right shoulder and twisted into a knot. She grabbed him by the shoulders and he was just staring straight ahead and non-responsive but was jerking, though not hard. It lasted for about a minute to a minute and a half. When it stopped, he just stood up straight and she asked him if he knew what happened and he said "yes, I was frozen". He then told her that it happens a couple times a year. Before I heard the description, I said that I had never seen him have a seizure, and he told them he never mentioned them to me because he thought it happened to everyone. Well, as soon as they told me about the "frozen" comment I realized that he has been having them, and will just casually say something like "I froze" or "I was frozen" when I ask him why he doesn't respond, or why he was acting odd. I never put two and two together. His OT is concerned that they may be more frequent than we realize and that they might be affecting him already because of some things I have noticed like he used to have nice handwriting and now it is not legible; he used to do complex math in his head for fun, and now he has trouble with basic concepts of multiplication and division. He has always complained about headaches, but we thought that was because of the convergence insufficiency and it has gotten better since he got his glasses, but now I am starting to wonder if they are all related. Honestly, I'm freaking out a little.

 

The poor guy was afraid to go to sleep last night in case in happened in his sleep, and he didn't want to go to school today in case it happened there. He doesn't want his classmates talking about it or treating him differently. I cannot get an appointment with the pediatric neurlogist (specialists are hard to get in to see in Western Australia because the state is huge, but not many people and isolated so everyone has to come to Perth to be seen. It is not a problem out East where there are more people, apparently) until July, but several people have told me I should just go to the ER at the kids hospital if I think it has happened again and they will just do all the tests there, or get me in sooner to be seen.

 

I am not sure what to do. I would like to start some natural things to help prevent or alleviae the seizures while we wait, but I don't want to do so much that nothing shows up on his EEG. I guess I am looking for reassurance about the seizures and also about the medications if he has to go on them. I would also really appreciate any advice about alternative medicines or therapies. I am familiar with the ketogenic diet as I have a friend whose son had severe seizures who didn't respond to meds, so she put him on the diet and after a few years his EEG was fine.

 

Thank goodness the baby came early and I have all these lovely, relaxing nursing horomones flowing through me otherwise I would be a complete mess!

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So your ds had a seizure in school, with no official history of epilepsy, and the school didn't call an ambulance? :huh: I would be very, very upset about that. A seizure in someone who hasn't been diagnosed with epilepsy is a medical emergency. Your son needs to see a neurologist as soon as possible.

 

Whatever you do, don't try to treat this yourself. You don't know what is causing the seizures, and the ketogenic diet needs to be closely monitored. If you try to "naturally" treat this, you could end up causing far more harm than good.

 

Epilepsy can be fatal. It isn't something to screw around with. It's not the kind of thing where you just try some special vitamins or a trip to the chiropractor instead of medication.

 

Also, does this sound like it may have been what happened?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonic_seizure

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I am absolutely shocked that the school didn't immediately call an ambulance -- and I'm doubly shocked that they didn't consider the seizure to be a medical emergency! :eek:

 

I would definitely take him to the hospital for evaluation, and I'd do it right away. Tell the ER staff exactly what happened and make sure they run the appropriate tests. It could be very dangerous to wait until July to see a doctor for this. I'm sure it's something treatable, but I would never wait for months to be sure -- and besides, if your ds has another seizure and hits his head, you could be looking at a life-and-death situation, depending upon where he is when it happens.

 

I'm sorry if I'm scaring you, but I wouldn't wait to find out what's going on. The sooner your ds gets the proper treatment, the sooner he'll feel better.

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Agree with Mergath that he needs to get on medication soon--you can't wait until July.

 

ETA: Seizures happen and I don't know of any natural way to make them stop. But I will say that I'm basically asking for a seizure if my dd doesn't get enough sleep. They'll also come as the first sign of an illness (i.e. before fever, runny nose, etc.). To try to avoid some seizures you can make sure your son gets to sleep on time and doesn't get up too early. But if it was possible to avoid all seizures without medication, well my dd wouldn't have intractable seizures! We've done the keto diet and it helped, but it's not a forever thing (some side effects that could damage your body long term), and just starting the diet required a hospital stay and medical supervision--you can't do it on your own safely. She was a disabled preschooler at the time and had no choice in what she ate. It would be a hard diet for a kid who is used to eating real food and feeding himself whatever he wants. Much of the diet is drinking cream.

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So your ds had a seizure in school, with no official history of epilepsy, and the school didn't call an ambulance? :huh: I would be very, very upset about that. A seizure in someone who hasn't been diagnosed with epilepsy is a medical emergency. Your son needs to see a neurologist as soon as possible.

 

Whatever you do, don't try to treat this yourself. You don't know what is causing the seizures, and the ketogenic diet needs to be closely monitored. If you try to "naturally" treat this, you could end up causing far more harm than good.

 

Epilepsy can be fatal. It isn't something to screw around with. It's not the kind of thing where you just try some special vitamins or a trip to the chiropractor instead of medication.

 

Also, does this sound like it may have been what happened?

 

http://en.wikipedia..../Atonic_seizure

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Take him to the ER, or at the very minimun get him in w/ a reg doc ASAP. And :grouphug:

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Oh, I have no intention of putting him on the keto diet myself, just thought maybe about reducing carbs (although because 3 of us have Coeliacs, we are fairly low carb), and upping protein/fats. Maybe some essential oils or homeopathics to help deal with the anxiety. Here in Western Australia you go see your GP for everything and that person refers you to specialists. The pedi neuro I have a referral to is the most experienced one. We saw his OT the next day and she gave me the name of another to try but she only knew of these two pedi neuros in town.

 

This scenario is common in wa - waiting for specialists, so many people fly to Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane to get on faster, but I cannot do this at the moment.

 

I am seriously considering going the ER route, but Monday is a public holiday so it will be insanely crowded over the weekend.

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I just realized I forgot to say we went straight to our GP who feels that they are petite mal seizures (absence seizures)

 

Really? Hmm. With absence seizures, people don't usually have such severe muscle spasms that they nearly fall down. He could be having multiple kinds of seizures at the same time. But then, you can have atypical seizures as well. Either way, he really needs to see a neurologist, not a GP.

 

ETA: And I do have epilepsy and know a bit about it- I'm not just making this up as I go, lol.

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If your hospitals are anything like the US it's less than ideal to go on a holiday or even week-end. There are, generally, the less experienced professionals during those times and statistically more mistakes.

 

But I would want him seen sooner and after an episode would be ideal so, particularly if he has another, I'd probably go the Children's ER. I would, and have, do that even on a holiday week-end.

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My understanding is that while doctor's don't have definitive proof as to this, the prevailing research is that repeated seizures can damage the brain. So the sooner there is medication or treatment to get the seizures under control, the better. I do not know if this is true for all kinds of seizures but that is what I've read in my studies.

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My understanding is that while doctor's don't have definitive proof as to this, the prevailing research is that repeated seizures can damage the brain. So the sooner there is medication or treatment to get the seizures under control, the better. I do not know if this is true for all kinds of seizures but that is what I've read in my studies.

 

My DD's neuro agrees with this. He explained it's like walking down a path, the more times you go down it, the more defined and well worn the path is. The longer seizures go uncontrolled the harder it is to get control.

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This needs to be seen asap.

 

Speaking gently . . . you really don't know what could be causing this. It may be epilepsy or a seizure disorder, or it may be something like a brain tumor. If he has a brain tumor, it may need to be addressed immediately. You have no way of knowing. Your child needs an MRI, and this is not something to wait on.

 

I do not say this to cause you distress. Someone I loved suffered with a brain tumor for many years. She died two years ago. I'm sure if you run a search on my name you will come across other posts about her.

 

Please find a way to take your child for evaluation.

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How frightening for you!

 

I'm completely shocked at the school's response - but can also understand that he appeared 'normal' a few minutes after it happened, and was not perturbed himself, so they would have taken their cue from him.

 

several people have told me I should just go to the ER at the kids hospital if I think it has happened again and they will just do all the tests there, or get me in sooner to be seen.

 

I am seriously considering going the ER route, but Monday is a public holiday so it will be insanely crowded over the weekend.

 

 

If this is the way that you have to play the system to get him evaluated sooner, then please do. Don't let them dismiss you because they're busy - you need to have him tested urgently.

Seizures are an indication that something is going wrong with his brain and you need to know what it is - especially since in your OP you say that some of his mental functions and abilities are being affected.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

(My dh has epilepsy because of a brain abnormaility and like Mergath we do know a bit about it).

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How terrifying! I would phone the neurologist every single day asking about a cancellation. I can't see how 'wait until June' is an acceptable option. If it happened again I would also go the ER route - the children's hospital is wonderful, we had an opportunity to rate their services 5 weeks after we moved here... Can you instruct the school to phone for an ambulance in the case of another seizure?

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Just wondering: could your GP not order tests - MRI or whatever is needed - and then react accordingly? A diagnosed issue would probably get you priority with the neurologist. There do seem to be huge problems with delays to see specialists here...

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Wow! So sorry this happened, but there is no way I would wait until July to get this checked out, especially with your comment about him losing skills. I would travel wherever I needed to in order to ensure that he received an evaluation ASAP.

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I didn't read all the responses, but as a parent of two boys with a history of epilepsy, he should have gone straight to the ER. It is scary and to be honest with you, 11 years later, each and every seizure terrifies me and sends me into a panic. My boys are now med free, but it has been a long journey. ((((HUGS)))))))

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My DD's neuro agrees with this. He explained it's like walking down a path, the more times you go down it, the more defined and well worn the path is. The longer seizures go uncontrolled the harder it is to get control.

 

This. You need to break the cycle as soon as you can.

 

Also, many (most?) kinds of seizures can cause some brain damage when they happen. You do not want him having them for months before you can get seen.

 

When my youngest was 2 days old, we had to call to get her in to the pedi neuro. They said to come in sometime next week. I said, no, I'm coming in the morning. My 2 day old was seizing about once an hour (fortunately my kids' seizures are a benign kind - they're actually part of a study in Australia) and they wanted me to wait a few days? No. I just wouldn't take no for an answer. We were in the next morning. I would've shown up even if they hadn't given me an appointment. Heck, once the doctor saw one of them when we got there and wanted her admitted overnight, even though we knew she'd be fine once she got the first dose of meds (older sisters had same thing).

 

They've been off meds for years now, but whenever they've had an outlying seizure, it's always been the ER. One of my dd's had a bad reaction to the measles vax and started seizing again, that was two more years of meds, but they had her back on meds within a week of the seizures starting up. I'd just keep pestering them till they see you. Definitely keep calling about cancellations, and if he continues to have seizures, make a bigger stink.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

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Please listen to all of these great responses. My ds has epilepsy and it is nothing to play around with. Our neuro has explained that each seizure is like the brain getting a hit and it takes a while to recover but seizures over and over can cause permanent problems. A seizure over five minutes is a life threatening emergency. Please don't try to treat this naturally. People die of seizures. This is your son's brain and as a child it's still developing. Take your son to the ER. Get treatment now. It took a while but my son is now on a combination of two meds and has NO side effects. The seizures are what cause side effects. When my ds's seizures are not well controlled his behavior deteriorates, he can't do basic math, etc. When his seizures are well controlled he is happy and productive. My son also has a Vagus Nerve Stimulator and it has been another great epilepsy treatment.

 

Your son needs an MRI to determine if there is something obvious causing his seizures. Tumors in the brain can cause seizures. You need to have this ruled out.

 

Absence seizures don't have a jerking component. You need to educate yourself quickly. There are some great resources out there. Epilepsy.com has a lot of information.

 

I'm not trying to frighten you but I don't want you thinking this is an issue that can wait.

 

Please keep us updated!

 

Elise in NC

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How scary! Don't wait until July. Get him evaluated ASAP, whatever it takes, so he can have proper treatment/meds if necessary: ER, a regular neuro doc (as opposed to the pediatric one if that makes it easier), even a little trip to a different clinic out of town. You want to find out what's at the root of it.

 

My sister began having petite mal seizures at around that age. However, what you describe doesn't sound like petite mal seizures to me. Her seizures didn't involve the muscle spasms, more like blanking out or being in a trance.

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What exactly did you say when you asked for an appointment with the nearest neurologist? Did you just try to make an appointment or did you explain that your son was having seizures and that it had happened at school?

 

Every neurology department I know (just like most specialties) has open slots for emergencies. This would be considered an office emergency. Until your child has been evaluated, they should do everything they can to get him in. They don't know what kind of disorder he has or if he could go into status epilepticus (defined as a medical emergency where the seizure lasts more than 5 minutes). They will at least want to see him, evaluate him, and give him an EEG to see what kind of seizure activity is going on. At least this is how it is in the US.

 

From what you've described your son either has multiple seizure types or has complex partial seizures. Most people with regular absence seizures are not aware its happening. Partial seizures often have some consciousness or altered consciousness. Again, I'm not a neurologist but my son has a seizure disorder with many types so I'm familiar with a range of seizures. Only a neurologist with a clear EEG could tell you for sure.

 

You can do some diet changes without going into the full Ketogenic Diet. You can remove sugar. You can do an Atkins-style diet. You can do a modified Atkins, keeping carbs under 30g a day. None of those need a nutritionist but could be helpful if low carb helps your son. Many people on keto start with one of those before going on the diet. This is not a good reason to stop fighting to see a neurologist though. Keep calling the neurology office. Keep letting them know that you have an undiagnosed child with multiple seizures that seem to be affecting his learning and motor control. At the very least they need to get him in there for an EEG and some emergency medication in case the seizure lasts longer than 5 minutes, especially if its a drive to your nearest hospital.

 

*Edited because in re-reading I noticed I said atypical rather than complex partial seizures. I meant complex partial, although atypical can also be true. Complex partial seizures are ones which display altered consciousness.*

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Really? Hmm. With absence seizures, people don't usually have such severe muscle spasms that they nearly fall down. He could be having multiple kinds of seizures at the same time. But then, you can have atypical seizures as well. Either way, he really needs to see a neurologist, not a GP.

 

ETA: And I do have epilepsy and know a bit about it- I'm not just making this up as I go, lol.

 

Agree. From the muscle spasms in his arms it sounds like a simple partial (aka. focal motor or Jacksonian motor) seizure. Produces jerky muscle activity, but the sufferer remains awake and aware of what's going on - they just can't control it. Not full blown tonic-clonic, but can easily progress to one.

 

(I'm an EMT.)

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Regarding the keto diet vs. just low carb: not the same thing. For the keto diet to work, the body needs to stay in a state of ketosis where it is burning fat for energy instead of carbohydrates. It is mostly fat, just enough protein for cell renewal/growth, and almost no carbohydrates. I'm looking at my dd's old binder and the ratios we needed for every meal were 31 gm fat, 5 gm protein, and 3.7 gm carbohydrate. One meal was 67 gm cream, 21 gm deluxe American cheese (highest fat content!), and 7 gm banana. There's carbohydrate in the cream and cheese, so you don't get a lot of banana in the meal. These ratios would keep her ketotic which we checked with ketostix, and for reasons even the doctors don't understand, being ketotic can keep seizures away. But in a regular low-carb diet, there would still be too many carbs to stay ketotic, so you wouldn't be preventing seizures. That's my understanding anyway--we could not allow any food other than the carefully calculated meals because any extra carbs could break ketosis and bring on a seizure.

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Ali,

 

My son's been on Keto (5 years), and modified Atkins is a possibility that is open to people who don't want to bother with the complexity and difficulty of the Ketogenic Diet. Often if an adult with epilepsy wants to try it out they will do Atkins instead. There are similarities, although the KD is much more structured and hardcore than something like Atkins.

 

My son transitioned to modified Atkins for a month or two to see if the diet was really doing anything for him. Our nutritionist considers that a stepping stone to the Ketogenic Diet. Users would be in light ketosis (as opposed to the medium or heavy ketosis of the KD).

 

In fact, they sell ketostix at many pharmacies for people losing weight (Atkins, etc.) and bodybuilders.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got a call from the pedi neurologist on Monday telling me there was a cancellation on Thursday (today). So, we say him today!!!! Based on family history, the description of the episode, and his examination, the doctor ordered an EEG, and thinks that DS is having Rolandic seizures - he won't make a definite diagnosis without the EEG because a few things don't fit.

 

I was very surprised when he also diagnosed my son with migraines. DS has always compained about headaches but we thought it had to do with his convergence insufficiency. Both sides of the family have migraines and several of the the things I mentioned to teh doctor pointed to migraines.

 

I am now waiting for the hospital to call me with a time to bring him in for the EEG. I am also supposed to keep a log of the headaches to see if I can find a trigger (which we can then avoid).

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Western Australia might be more remote, but usually almost all of the usual specialists are available, especially for diagnosis. I'm sure that it shouldn't be too difficult, if your gp saw the urgency of the situation, to find a specialist that will do all the tests for you. I do realize for some newer or more difficult surgeries the east coast is the only option, but for your son at this stage, all tests should be able to be done locally, and SOON! Glad you could get in on the cancellation, anyway! Hope he can get some answers.

Hugs to you. It's so stressful when a child isn't well. And your poor son, it's pretty stressful for kids too, but they are great at just living in the moment, aren't they!

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How scary! I'm glad he's seeing a specialist already.

 

I have to say I'm a little scared that my kids will have seizures. We have a big family history of migraines and epilepsy (apparently they can be related). They are absolutely not to be messed around with! FWIW, this is the branch of the family that celiac disease runs through, although not all the sufferers have celiac. My own migraines are triggered by a certain threshold of gluten, but I'm not a celiac.

 

My friend with epilepsy says that for him seizures are triggered by bodily stress - not eating enough, missing sleep, drastic temperature changes, flashing lights, minor or major illnesses. I'm sure you'll get a whole lot more information than this little tidbit, though!

 

:grouphug: And good luck!

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Got a call from the pedi neurologist on Monday telling me there was a cancellation on Thursday (today). So, we say him today!!!! Based on family history, the description of the episode, and his examination, the doctor ordered an EEG, and thinks that DS is having Rolandic seizures - he won't make a definite diagnosis without the EEG because a few things don't fit.

 

I was very surprised when he also diagnosed my son with migraines. DS has always compained about headaches but we thought it had to do with his convergence insufficiency. Both sides of the family have migraines and several of the the things I mentioned to teh doctor pointed to migraines.

 

I am now waiting for the hospital to call me with a time to bring him in for the EEG. I am also supposed to keep a log of the headaches to see if I can find a trigger (which we can then avoid).

 

 

 

I'm so glad you were able to get your son in to the neuro. Hopefully your ds will have the EEG soon and treatment can begin ASAP!

 

Keep us updated when you can!

 

Elise in NC

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I was very surprised when he also diagnosed my son with migraines. DS has always compained about headaches but we thought it had to do with his convergence insufficiency. Both sides of the family have migraines and several of the the things I mentioned to teh doctor pointed to migraines.

 

I am now waiting for the hospital to call me with a time to bring him in for the EEG. I am also supposed to keep a log of the headaches to see if I can find a trigger (which we can then avoid).

 

My daughter has migra-seizures where the migraines and seizures are tied together. Thankfully though some of the meds for seizures are for migraines as well so we can hit 2 things at once. Glad you could get him in so fast.

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