Jane Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Hi all! I'm looking for practical and simple ways to simplify our school days. Any ideas? My reason is simply because we've hit a busy stage of life w/children in all the different stages of life from middle schoolers down to infants. The older ones have ativities outside the home and the younger ones naturally require more of my time in the house. Does anyone care to share how they (or their friends) have simplified their daily routines to accomodate a busy homeschooling lifestyle? I'm really struggling w/the thought of paper plates, but can see the benefits because it will move us from three dishwasher loads to two dishwasher loads per day. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 we are pretty strictly sandwiches only folks, sans any plates. On eknife, maybe a spoon and bowl, pending the type of sandwich being made. Isn't that supposed to be the wonder and joy of a sandwich? Altho I have friends who are appalled at the notion of using nothing and or appalled at the notion of eating pbj or grilled cheese every afternoon. Gasp! what about crumbs? What about them? It's not like we're in bed.:tongue_smilie: Wipe the table down afterwards, which we always have to do with plates anyways, and life continues on. Sometimes I kick them outside for lunch and don't even have them clean the table. Laziness can really spur creative juices. LOL :auto: Otherwise, we rarely use paperplates and such. We just can't afford that luxery. But oh how we would if we could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre in GA Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 paper towels work just as well as paper plates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 yep, we use paper plates for lunch sometimes, we do sandwiches, cheese and crackers, crudites, etc. which can be served sans plates and we just open a napkin up instead for each person. and i quit sweeping my floor after each meal and just do it once a day, after supper in the evening, which sort of drives me nuts during the day but hey, you've gotta do what you've gotta do:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanie Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Hi all! I'm looking for practical and simple ways to simplify our school days. Any ideas? My reason is simply because we've hit a busy stage of life w/children in all the different stages of life from middle schoolers down to infants. The older ones have ativities outside the home and the younger ones naturally require more of my time in the house. Does anyone care to share how they (or their friends) have simplified their daily routines to accomodate a busy homeschooling lifestyle? I'm really struggling w/the thought of paper plates, but can see the benefits because it will move us from three dishwasher loads to two dishwasher loads per day. Any thoughts? We do paper plates for all meals at our house. We even use paper cups. We buy all of them in bulk at Sam's wholesale, and they last forever. If I didn't then we would run out of dishes by the end of the day. I only have to run the dishwasher every 2 days now. I know it doesn't "look" as pretty as porcelain dishes, but it's much more practical. I even use plastic forks when we have them. It's much easier for the dc as well b/c I don't have to worry about them breaking things. When it's comfy enough outside we just eat outside then chunk the plates/cups in the outside trash. We never even have to dirty the kitchen. My dc love to eat breakfast on the patio out by the pool anyway. Of course when company's over we pull out our good stuff though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Yup, paper plates most days. The kiddos also have their own water bottle/cup for the day so I don't have a dozen cups to wash at the end of the day. I also look for recipes that have the least amount of pans/dishes. I love casseroles and crock pots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto7 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Paper plates are always for lunch! The extra minimal cost is worth it as we have nine people in our family, and eight of us are here for all three meals every day. I have three full sets of Corelle dishes, but we'd still run out if some things unless I washed in the middle of the day. As it is, I only wash dishes and run the dishwasher once at the end of the day. Also, we bought inexpensive plastic tumblers for the children and I put their names on them with a Sharpie marker. Same cup all day...if you forget to rinse it out after milk, juice, or whatever, there's the soap and dishcloth. It only took one day of washing 23 cups to come up with that idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 For sure!!!! We use paper because it saves us time. We do, however, set the table nice for dinner!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I use paper plates every day for lunch, with 2 exceptions: If it is drive thru, we eat out of the containers, or if it is something that might seep through the paper, such as applesauce or peanut butter. (Yup, a blob of peanut butter with a nicely sectioned apple makes for a quick and nutritious lunch!) The girls get 1 cup for breakfast. After they drink their milk I rinse it out and that's what they drink out of for lunch and dinner. Breakfast is up for grabs. Nutri-grain bars don't get a plate. Toast & waffles (butter and cinnamon, no syrup) get paper and cereal, well, obviously that gets a bowl :) Occasionally, we eat on paper at dinner. Not often though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Sandwiches or other similiar dry things. This sounds odd, but we also use coffee filters for mini dry-bowls. Crackers, granola or other dry snacks are great in a round coffee filter. They are super cheap and take up very little space in the garbage. We started doing this after I bought a package for a craft and didn't need the rest. It is amazing how well they work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom to Aly Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 We do paper plates for any meal that isn't major, like sit down with a few courses. So much easier, and less time consuming. We even do plastic forks and knives for some. I don't do plastic cups, though--dogs and cats--they love nothing more than wacking them with their tails, and it sort of defeats the purpose when you have a huge mess to clean up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 We always have paper plates on hand. With the boys doing ranch work with their dad our meals are nuts in the summertime. No one wants breakfast, but they come in early as their chores are finished to eat a sandwich. Paper plates. Then later they'll wander in for a snack. Paper plates again. Evening meal is usually a set table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkpan Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. What about training the dc to do the dishwashing chores? I am forever "perfecting" our chore system, but I am working on the dc taking turns running/unloading the dw, sweeping the floor after every meal, and keeping the house generally clean. It is always in process, but it is good for them. So, please don't hate me :o, but it is something to think about. Now, we aren't paper plate nazis, lol, but I do try to use them sparingly. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Hi all! I'm looking for practical and simple ways to simplify our school days. Any ideas? My reason is simply because we've hit a busy stage of life w/children in all the different stages of life from middle schoolers down to infants. The older ones have ativities outside the home and the younger ones naturally require more of my time in the house. Does anyone care to share how they (or their friends) have simplified their daily routines to accomodate a busy homeschooling lifestyle? I'm really struggling w/the thought of paper plates, but can see the benefits because it will move us from three dishwasher loads to two dishwasher loads per day. Any thoughts? Paper plates here. My mil goes to a discount store that sells merchandise that is rejected to sell. We right now are using rejected NCU pirate plates. I believe there are 5000 plates in the box and she bought them for $10. Can't beat that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. What about training the dc to do the dishwashing chores? I am forever "perfecting" our chore system, but I am working on the dc taking turns running/unloading the dw, sweeping the floor after every meal, and keeping the house generally clean. It is always in process, but it is good for them. So, please don't hate me :o, but it is something to think about. Now, we aren't paper plate nazis, lol, but I do try to use them sparingly. Kim I have to wash everything by hand. I waste a lot of water doing that. For us I also need to take into consideration our budget and time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in WA Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 We use paper towels for sandwiches or we use the same plates all day long. Well that is if they are not dripped on from lunch. If we have turkey sandwiches for lunch then we can eat off them for dinner. Sound bad but its not. Also to cut down time I made a weekly sheet of lunches that hangs on the frig-it never changes. Monday-PB&J & carrots Tuesday-Turkey & fruit Wednesday-Cheese Quesadillas & fruit Thursday-chicken nuggets & veggies Friday-PB&J & friut It may not look exciting but it cut out my kids asking what was for lunch and me having to think for 20-30 minutes. Now the my oldest can make lunch for all of us and its kid friendly for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. What about training the dc to do the dishwashing chores? I am forever "perfecting" our chore system, but I am working on the dc taking turns running/unloading the dw, sweeping the floor after every meal, and keeping the house generally clean. It is always in process, but it is good for them. So, please don't hate me :o, but it is something to think about. Now, we aren't paper plate nazis, lol, but I do try to use them sparingly. Kim ITA with this. We only use disposable when we have a lot of company, and even then, I bought a melamine set that I use if we have less than 12 people. I can't afford the extra cost, and I try to limit our use of anything disposable (except toilet paper :lol:). We also use the same cups all day long, and we use the same plates as long as they're relatively clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. What about training the dc to do the dishwashing chores? I am forever "perfecting" our chore system, but I am working on the dc taking turns running/unloading the dw, sweeping the floor after every meal, and keeping the house generally clean. It is always in process, but it is good for them. So, please don't hate me :o, but it is something to think about. Now, we aren't paper plate nazis, lol, but I do try to use them sparingly. Kim :iagree: I think our priorities are a bit screwy if we model that kind of waste to our kids. It's not the cost, its the waste, the trees, the processing. But, I am not really one to speak, I suppose, since we go through so much paper each week for school. I do think about it though, and try to minimise wasteage. I think the guilt anyone feels at such wasteage is probably a good thing, rather than something to be pushed aside and justified. That's what that niggling feeling is for. Sometimes it is justified, often it isn't, but I can't say for anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 of using paper plates vs. recycling. I never used paper plates until last month when another family was staying for a week and just because of the volume of people, I bought some paper plates for lunch. But we are in a serious drought here, and while I prefer regular plates just because of how they feel to use, I'm not at all sure that washing plates is environmentally more responsible than using paper, especially if it's recycled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyX8 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 We NEVER use paper plates or cups at home. I'm trying to teach my children to be good stewards of God's Creation. Paper plates and paper cups just don't play into the equation, IMO. We don't use paper napkins, paper towels, etc, either. Actually, I think that fast food packaging (wrappers, cups, etc) is number 2 on the list of what is in a landfill. Newspapers are number 1 and disposable diapers are number 3. We all have Sigg bottles for water, and Foogo straw bottles for raw milk. These stay on the door of the fridge when not in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 :iagree:I think our priorities are a bit screwy if we model that kind of waste to our kids. It's not the cost, its the waste, the trees, the processing. But, I am not really one to speak, I suppose, since we go through so much paper each week for school. I do think about it though, and try to minimise wasteage. I think the guilt anyone feels at such wasteage is probably a good thing, rather than something to be pushed aside and justified. That's what that niggling feeling is for. Sometimes it is justified, often it isn't, but I can't say for anyone else. I feel the same. The idea of using paper plates is horrifying actually, I spend so much time trying to explain to the DC about the effect of the environment of our consumerism and the pollution and waste of one use items that I just couldn't do it, ever. If we ever use disposable products (and I think we have done it twice, for parties) we use ones that are biodegradeable so that we can compost them and although we are utilising energy for manufacture etc we at least are not then consigning our waste to the landfill for future generations to deal with. We are in drought too, so wash water is an issue, but we reuse our snack plates and still only manage one dishwasher load plus one sink of dishes a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I'd not want to create the mountain of wasted resources involved in using paper plates daily. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 A friend w/ 5 dc once told me that if she had it to do over (her dc are older now), she'd use paper plates when they were little. It makes that much difference. As far as the impact on the environment, paper plates aren't for everyone all the time. I think refraining when we're in a season of life where we can is important, not just for the environment, but also to allow their use for those--say long term illness, lots of littles, old, etc.-- whose lives need the space that fewer dishes will provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet in Toronto Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. What about training the dc to do the dishwashing chores? I am forever "perfecting" our chore system, but I am working on the dc taking turns running/unloading the dw, sweeping the floor after every meal, and keeping the house generally clean. It is always in process, but it is good for them. /QUOTE] I totally agree. And I live in a city where we can compost paper that has had contact with food (that is, the city picks up compostables every week). We only use paper supplies for parties when we do not have enough reusable plates/cups/cutlery for everyone. I have children who load and unload the dishwasher, and who do the dishes after supper every night. Paper is not a timesaving option (except for the kids and they need the training, LOL), and very unappealing in a city that already has to truck it's trash (including compost) to the US and eastern provinces for processing and disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Same here. After 2 months without a dishwasher, my kids learned the value of using the same cup all day long. I have been known to use paper plates when we have a big group here (usually if we have a lot of people eating outside.) We do use paper napkins because I can't seem to figure out how to get grease/oil stains out of cloth with our environmentally friendly laundry detergent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Diem Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I only buy paper plates once a year. Just for birthday cake. I feel guilty doing that. Even to picnics and potlucks I bring our dinner plates from home. I feel good about that. None of our kids have broken a plate yet and they are the Mikasa plates we received for wedding gifts. I don't have time to look it up but I am fairly certain that it takes more water and energy to manufacturer paper plates (and to haul them all off to the landfill) than it does to wash some dishes. I did think about buying a pack of paper plates to have on hand for emergency use only. Meaning, if our electricity is shut off for an indefinite period of time and therefore we have absolutely no running water. Sorry if I sound preachy. It is just something I actually have an opinion about. I know our family isn't perfect but I am actively trying to improve on reducing our habits that hurt the environment. We never unplugged things before going away on trips but now I am unplugging everything each night. My dh doesn't like it because he has to power up the computer in the am. To the OP. Sorry, I don't have any ideas to offer right now. I just had to put in my two cents about paper plates. Hope I didn't offend anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. I make my husband crazy with my paper plate aversion!! Even if I have a house full of company I will not let him buy paper plates. He thinks I am a nutcase. And to make it worse, dh doesn't want paper plates, he wants foam plates. Like I want to contribute to that in the landfills! At least paper breaks down, styrofoam is there for our great-great-great-grandkids to deal with. So, I guess I am with you Kim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I don't have time to look it up but I am fairly certain that it takes more water and energy to manufacturer paper plates (and to haul them all off to the landfill) than it does to wash some dishes. It depends very much on adding up all of the small factors: if the plates are recycled, if you compost them locally or the town hauls them, if you wash by hand or use a dishwasher, if you tend to break porcelain plates (since so much more energy goes into producing those than paper ones, and they're not biodegradable like paper ones). An expert speaks up here. We have been attempting to avoid paper plates, but after reading this, I'm rethinking that stance. We are horrible plate breakers around here, with two to three cups, bowls or plates going in the trash broken every week. Buying recycled paper plates and composting them in our garden would be better environmentally than buying porcelain plates and replacing the set once a year. (I don't buy plastic stuff if I can avoid it, so melamine is out of the question.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I can't imagine using paper plates at every meal--it's so outside of my version of "normal," but I do think disposing of solid waste paper products has a lot less environmental impact than a lot of other stuff we do without thinking. I try to use reusable stuff, but it's not as high on my list of priorities as some things. With the first baby we took cloth diapers with us on vacation; by the third, I used disposables if I was going to be out of the house more than two hours :lol:. This discussion reminds me of a friend I had in grad school. She was so fanatical about not using paper plates that she had been known to get in her car and drive home to get her own if she showed up somewhere where people were using paper plates. Umm, there's some irony in there somewhere ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 We do use paper plates every once in a while. My mother even saves plastic zip lock-type bags, washes them and reuses. Now if I could get my dh to stop buying all those little bottles of water!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I don't use paper, either. We use light-weight plastic plates and cups for breakfast and lunch (more of these fit in a single dishwasher load than the stoneware) and cloth napkins. I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. I agree with this to a point. I believe it is important for *me* to teach these things to *my* children. I can't imagine the daily routines and struggles of any other family, so I wouldn't assume my way is best for anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 :iagree:I am not really one to speak, I suppose, since we go through so much paper each week for school. I do think about it though, and try to minimise wasteage. We are working our way towards a nearly paperless homeschool. My younger son's keyboarding skills aren't good enough yet that he can use his computer for the bulk of his work, but my older son does. He completes most of his assignments in Word and emails them to me. We sit at my computer when I'm taking a break from work and check/discuss it. Our paper waste has dropped quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Now if I could get my dh to stop buying all those little bottles of water!!! If you find a way to stop him, let me know. I would like to stop mine too! Everytime we go on any sort of a trip we have to have a cooler full of those plastic water bottles! I try to convince him that we could carry our refillable water bottles, but he is not liking that option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 and cloth napkins. . I wanted to hijack this thread for a second and share something we did last night that I am really happy with. It was our turn to host our dinner club and dh made a huge pot of cajun boil, which is pretty messy to eat. Instead of cloth napkins we bought a new package of bar towels and used them as napkins. They are very absorbent and affordable and when they get nasty we can just cycle them to the cleaning rag drawer and buy some more. I think we are just going to use them for our everyday napkins from now on. Okay, back to the paper plate discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I don't buy them anymore. I bought these plates from IKEA - cheap and can go in the microwave. I have 2 sets.... http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90096908 I just can't afford it, and htey are small enough to fit on the top rack of the dishwasher even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinmom Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 We stopped using paper plates a while back. I've got 2 small kids and it hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be. And I feel good about keeping volume out of the landfill. One option to paper plates thrown away would be plastic plates that are recyclable. Our area can recycle plastics 1-7, but some areas are still not taking all these numbers. Even so, the plate still has to contain the recycle symbol with one of those numbers in it. I know Solo cups are recyclable here, but I haven't checked the plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I try to keep it to one dishwasher load of dishes per day. I use small saucers for lunch plates b/c I can fit a ton in the dishwasher (and my dc are still little enough). We do one cup per kid per day. If we get to max capacity of our dishwasher, I have no shame in breaking out a paper towel (I don't even buy paper plates LOL) or a dixie cup for a snack. I CD my babies so that makes up for it:tongue_smilie: fwiw.....this laptop I'm on has to leave a bigger footprint than paper plates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TX Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I suppose this will be an unpopular opinion, but what about the impact on the environment? I think that it is important that we teach our dc to leave as small a footprint as possible, and to make conscious decisions about how much trash they generate. I agree about considering what our impact on the environment is, but doesn't the water and electricity used washing dishes also have an impact on the environment? Susan in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I just recently read an idea somewhere (not sure, maybe even here??) about a mom who was tired of so many dishes. She bought each kid their own color of cup and big, wide bowl that could be used as a plate. Each child was responsible to wash their own cup and bowl after each meal. By color coding them, if one gets left out, it's easy to see who didn't. She boxed up everything else and said if you don't wash it, you don't eat. I'm considering it for our house. If I can't find bowls big enough, I'll do a plate, cup, and bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I agree about considering what our impact on the environment is, but doesn't the water and electricity used washing dishes also have an impact on the environment? Susan in TX Of course, but not the same impact that persistently using disposable items does. From the link Laura posted above: "As far as saving the environment goes, reusable dishes washed in the dishwasher is definitely the way to go. According to Maria Vargas, a spokesperson with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), "there is an embedded energy in paper plates," meaning that you have to think about the amount of energy used in creating the paper plates. Adds Caserta of 3RLiving, "With paper plates, you are cutting down a tree, trucking it to a paper mill and maybe several factories. The process uses diesel fuel, [and] lots of electricity and water." The same goes for paper napkins, which is why reusable cloth napkins that you toss in the washing machine make the most sense for anyone trying to live green." In addition, even if you buy disposable products intending to recycle, there's still the added costs of hauling and processing the recyclables. The best option is simply to avoid the use in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 We NEVER use paper plates or cups at home. We've gone to paper plates for lunch, and back to regular dishes again. Even though we recycled most of the paper plates, I still had a little guilty feeling about using them. Not to mention the cost! We don't use paper napkins or cups, either. And we only run the dishwasher once per day (usually). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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