A new guy in my dd's life is very religious

[Iucounu]

I was kidding about the whole "what does that say about you"....

 

I'm really flattered by the comment. Kinda embarrassed really.

I don't want you to be embarrassed. If it got a little weird there, sorry. I just get overheated whenever I think of people getting busy with their pets. :drool:

[frugalmama]

How do you not kiss someone you are in a serious relationship or even engaged to? :confused:

 

I guess if it's something you really believe in, but it's something that I have never ever even though of. I guess I view physical relationship different since I am not Christian. But even when I WAS, like waaaaay back when I was younger and dating I didn't get that part. I mean, way back when, like when Jesus was around did they have a year long engagement and then a huge ceremony with a licensed whomever? I thought it was like "I want to marry you, or you will marry him, now go live together." Well, that's my condensed version:tongue_smilie:. I guess I would have waited if it was like that, however I wanted a white dress, all of our out of state family and a huge yummy buffet and a cake. We had a fairly small wedding and a short engagement by today's standards of only 6 months, but still that's along time in my book to not kiss someone!

 

Pretty easily, and I'm not Christian either fwiw - I'm Muslim. If and When I get married, it will be my first real kiss and relationship.

 

I really like the concept in Islam - marriage is not a big thing like in Christianity. You go to the Masjid and get married - that's it. No long engagement, no dating. You may talk with one another {always with a chaperone} to see if things click between the two of you, but it's based more on can you live together in harmony and be good for one another rather than Love. Love is a fickle thing you have to work at, so it's better to have a good relationship and common goals with the person you marry.

[Tap]

I know men and women who waited until marriage for serious relations, (or at least very close to marriage before being intimate with each other). It doesn't mean they are gay. It doesn't mean they are hiding some kind of hang-up. It can simply mean, that they feel that they are willing to keep that part of their physical bodies under control. Not everyone has to make out, feel up, and have sex to get to know someone. Since he has had physical relationships before, it really sounds like he is making new choices in his life, and is willing to share his view on those topics freely with her (since he was talking about it openly).

 

It was their second date. He was being honest. He said he has kissed before, so it sounds like he is either deepening in his faith...or re-evaluating it. He likely knows that if she is expecting a kiss on this date or one in the near future, it is better for him to be forthcoming now about his expectations/limitations of where their relationship is going.

 

Especially since he isn't going to be pressuring her physically, what is the harm in them having a good time together and just getting to know one another?

 

As far as his personal religion. That is only something your dd can decide. It sounds like she is open to it, why not let her investigate it a little and then she can decide if it is the right thing for her or not?

[Parrothead]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this.

 

OK, not really, but I've thought about it a little.

 

And the only way we can know for sure whether or not this guy is good enough for Beth's dd is this...

 

We need to see a picture of him in a kilt.

Oh. My. Goodness! Best post of the week here.

[acurtis75]

I know men and women who waited until marriage for serious relations, (or at least very close to marriage before being intimate with each other). It doesn't mean they are gay. It doesn't mean they are hiding some kind of hang-up. It can simply mean, that they feel that they are willing to keep that part of their physical bodies under control. Not everyone has to make out, feel up, and have sex to get to know someone. Since he has had physical relationships before, it really sounds like he is making new choices in his life, and is willing to share his view on those topics freely with her (since he was talking about it openly).

 

It was their second date. He was being honest. He said he has kissed before, so it sounds like he is either deepening in his faith...or re-evaluating it. He likely knows that if she is expecting a kiss on this date or one in the near future, it is better for him to be forthcoming now about his expectations/limitations of where their relationship is going.

 

Especially since he isn't going to be pressuring her physically, what is the harm in them having a good time together and just getting to know one another?

 

As far as his personal religion. That is only something your dd can decide. It sounds like she is open to it, why not let her investigate it a little and then she can decide if it is the right thing for her or not?

 

This was my reaction as well.

[Alice]

My best friend from high school decided when she got to college that she wanted to not kiss until her wedding day. She had boyfriends in high school that she did kiss, but she decided from then on she wanted to save that intimacy for later. I didn't share her convictions and they didn't come from our church (we went to the same church) but was just something she decided for herself. She did end up married and has been with her husband now for about 15 years and has 5 children. Just to say that the not kissing thing doesn't necessarily have to mean it's from a legalistic church or be a red flag in itself.

 

My husband was 34 when we were married (I was 28). Both of us just hadn't met anyone earlier. I also wouldn't think of being older as a red flag in itself. I do always worry a bit when I hear of someone older dating someone much younger when it's a matter of life experiences being different. Obviously, there is some difference between myself and dh but by the time we met and dated I was in med school, pursuing my own career and he was working. There was an age gap but not a huge gap in where we were in life. However, my niece dated a man about 9-10 years older when she was in college and it was concerning to me because of where they were in life. It made me wonder why he was interested in her. Did he want a girlfriend who was younger and perhaps less confident or sure of herself? That might not be the case with this guy and certainly isn't the case with every age gap but it would be something to think about to me.

 

The difference in faith is a big thing to me and would make me worry that one of both of them is setting themselves up to be hurt.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Alice

[LibraryLover]

I have a dd just a year younger, and I would not be happy with this at all. I would gently suggest she not date him again. The age difference alone would bother me greatly, never mind the other stuff.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Sorry if I missed this detail, but I'm wondering if he was homeschooled for any of his K-12 experience?

 

I'm wondering if he's a former Gothard child trying to regain equilibrium and be 'normal' after his restrictive upbringing and a subsequent period of rebellion. He's the right age for that, and the religious peccadilloes fit.

 

Actually, I'd find a way to see if this was the case, A.S.A.P.

[elegantlion]

I had to look that up. I have never heard that term.

 

 

 

This is definitely one of the things that has me concerned.

 

 

 

I said that very thing to her. I can't imagine a pastor of any kind being married to someone who didn't want to go to church. I also told her that if she married him, she would be making a lifelong committment to his faith because it would hurt him, both personally and professionally, if she ever lost interest in religion.

 

 

 

First, she isn't sure what to think. She's very drawn to him because he's very attractive and they talk for hours without running out of things to say. She says she feels comfortable around him. She has never shown too much of an interest in religion. Her stepmom/dad forced her into communion and confirmation when she explicitly told them she didn't want to do it. She did help me teach VBS at my Baptist church and enjoyed being there, but she never attended services or an educational class of her own. Since meeting him, she's asking questions. I like that. I believe in God, but I have a different way of looking at things than most Christians I think.

 

The age difference does not bother any of us. I married her dad and he was 8 years older than me. There is an 11 year age difference between me and DH.

 

My misgivings are tied to his faith being such an integral part of his life, as I mentioned above. Why has he never married? Why isn't he involved with someone who shares his faith which would seem important to someone like a youth pastor? He mentors young adults.

 

She has a tendency to fall into whatever her boyfriend is into. When she dated someone who loved rock and roll, she loved rock and roll. When she dated someone who was vegetarian, she became a vegetarian but got tired of it after a while. When she dated someone who liked to play video games, she got very involved with video games. She doesn't have anything that is personally hers to share with someone else. She falls easily and gives her heart completely. She's been hurt, truly and deeply hurt, several times. She knows I see things differently from her because I'm older and I'm her mom, so she isn't quite convinced that these things are bad. I'm not saying they are bad but I wish she believed more in herself as a person and not feel so strong that she has to be part of a couple to be someone.

 

BTW, she does know I'm asking on the board about this. I'm not talking behind her back. :)

 

The bolded would be my biggest concern honestly. I was that kind of girl, it was fun and interesting to be interested in whatever "my guy" was into. Unfortunately I also lacked a lot of esteem to balance a relationship with MY interests.

 

I would hesitant because it would be very easy to get wrapped up in his lifestyle before the shine wears off the relationship. She wouldn't have the time to figure out if this is WHO she wants to be.

 

I was young and stupidly romantic, I thought that being together would be enough. One bad marriage later, I realized I had dreams and goals too. I needed someone who would support and encourage those dreams. My dh is still my biggest supporter.

 

I don't think it's wrong to consider these questions at this early stage. He's already stated he doesn't want casual dating, he's looking for a mate.

 

Being able to talk together is an important part of a relationship, but is there enough to keep the relationship going?

 

I'd almost suggest she move it back to a friendship and start there. Don't call it dating, that way he has no expectations and she gets some time and space to figure out who she is.

[LibraryLover]

That would have been a deal breaker for me, but I do know that doesn't bother everyone. I liked guys my own age or younger. But then my sister married a guy 15 years older and I think he is good for her. So, everyone is different.

 

 

I've known great couples with a large age gap. Age shouldn't be an issue, most of the time.

 

It's not so much his age, it's just that 20 is so young. If he were 38 and she 29, I'd not have the same feelings about it.

[momma2three]

Age differences concern me, but life stages concern me more. If the DD is a relatively naive college student who has never really worked or lived independently, I would wonder what a 29 year old saw in her. An 9 year difference between, say, a 25 year old and a 34 year old wouldn't concern me. But a 9 year difference between a 20 and a 29 year old is a lot greater, IMO.

[PeacefulChaos]

I highly doubt that the kissing thing is an official church belief. It's something that people decide on their own for whatever reason.

But he may be missionary dating, as others have probably said (didn't read comments). In general, most Christians try to date other Christians - it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for him to date someone who isn't, unless he's not looking at anything long term but just someone to hang around and have fun with.

[klmama]

I would not be terribly concerned. So, he's a waiter in an upscale restaurant. It's not like he's working in a seedy bar or something. He probably is just supplementing a low income from the church, but maybe not - maybe he uses it to fund scholarships for needy kids to attend special activities with the youth group or something. Has your dd asked why he works in the restaurant?

 

So, he's a Christian dating a non-Christian. That's not so great, but it's understandable. His church may not have many single adult women, and he may not have much opportunity to meet anyone elsewhere. Since your dd isn't antagonistic to his faith, that leaves a door open that she might someday share it. I doubt as a pastor he would ask her to marry him if she didn't believe, but right now he's just getting to know her. Don't try to marry them off yet!

 

His age doesn't concern me, either. Dh and I married at 29 at our very large church's singles group - large because it was the only church in the city that had one. There were a lot of unmarried adults, very nice adults, who didn't marry until they were in their late 20s and into their 30s. One friend from that time didn't marry until he was in his 50s, and several others still haven't married. They weren't odd people; many were pursuing advanced degrees and they just hadn't met the right person, or the person they had thought was right turned out to be a flake and dumped them at the altar or something.

 

As far as him not kissing - it sounds to me like he's actually very mature. He's probably been burned before, he's probably hurt others, and he's decided to avoid that aspect of relationships to focus on the friendship instead of getting distracted by the physical. That's a good thing. I wouldn't be at all concerned about him being gay unless you see some evidence of it.

 

All in all, he sounds like a very nice man, and it's nice that they're enjoying getting to know each other. It's particularly nice that he likes her relationship with family. I don't see all the red flags so many here do.

[Parrothead]

I see a lot of reasons to be concerned.

 

First your dd needs to find her passion. I know she has been looking for quite some time now. I would not recommend getting tied to a guy who may not let her continue her explorations. I'm not saying this guy won't let her explore. But what if they become emotionally involved and her passion ends up being Buddhism or women's rights or something that isn't compatible with his religious beliefs? That is a recipe for deep heartbreak and there is the possibility she would give up her passion for him.

 

Second, like it or not she is Catholic. Non-practicing, but Catholic nonetheless. Of course being Catholic myself I don't see it as a bad thing. :001_smile: She can reject the faith. Lots of people do. But no one can take it away from her. What if in 10 or 20 years she decides to explore this? What is the possibility that she will want a sacramental marriage within the church? Maybe pretty slim at the present time. Five years from now, who knows. And if we go back to reason 1, what if her passion turns out to be a different religion entirely?

 

Third. Without knowing anymore than your posted in your OP, this guy's church sounds like it may be one of those legalistic women suppressing churches. I'd really check closely. Go to church a time or two without letting him know in advance that you and dd are going to be there. If there is anything that raises a red flag start disengaging.

 

Forth. While there is nothing wrong with being a server in a high class restaurant it doesn't seem like much of a life goal. Yes, times are tough right now. Maybe this job is all he could find in this crappy economy. The fact that he is working is a plus, but one cannot support a wife/family on less than minimum wage plus tips. What does his life plan look like? What if your dd needs/wants to move to the big city?

 

Where it my dd I'd advise caution. Be friends with the guy. Date him if he continues to be a nice guy. The lack of passion can be a good thing. Nothing to muddy the waters. Do lots of talking with both him and her family. This could be the start of a beautiful relationship. It could also be the start of a great friendship. It could also turn out to be a learning experience for what she doesn't want in a life mate.

 

:grouphug:

[klmama]

I thought Night Elf said they are Catholic. Last time I checked, that is a Christian faith. I mean she said they aren't super strict devout, but still she does have a Christian background.

 

Oh, I missed that. I wasn't trying to say Catholics aren't Christian! Sorry, OP!

[Parrothead]

Oh, I missed that. I wasn't trying to say Catholics aren't Christian! Sorry, OP!

Reading back seems like Beth (OP) attends a Baptist church. Her dd's dad is Catholic, and her dd received her sacraments in the Catholic church but is currently non-practicing which isn't the same as non-Christian.

[HSMom2One]

I have some questions for the op and for those that seem highly suspicious of the young man in question.

 

1. What if this man is completely honorable? If he's sincere, what harm is being done?

 

2. What if the young man has learned from others and from his own experience that physical contact with the opposite sex causes distractions when it comes to really getting to know someone? So what if he wants to save kissing and sex for the "right" woman? I'd love to have someone with those values date MY daughter!

 

3. And what if this young man sees good things in your dd and wants to get to know her, really get to know her? If he shows her respect by being a complete gentleman when they are together, what is suspect about that?

 

5. What if he feels led by the Holy Spirit to get to know her either as a friend or a potential life mate? It seems to me that if that is the case, then everything will take care of itself and no one will need to worry.

 

Good heavens, I would think that a 20 yo woman is old enough to decide for herself what spirituality she wants to embrace or not embrace. Let her figure this out for herself!

 

Finally, you may want to know that there is a growing movement among Christian young people that has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with denominations or church affiliation that encourages abstinence until marriage. There was a book written by Josh Harris called "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", and it has had a big influence on young people that see the damage premarital sex and promiscuity have caused to countless people. This growing movement is striving to follow the guidelines taught in the Bible about remaining pure. I personally feel that this younger generation is doing a whole lot better job of that than my own generation did! I admire and respect them completely.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[ThisIsTheDay]

I would be more concerned about why he chose your daughter if you are sure your daughter does not share his faith and is not interested in doing so. Because something does seem off there.

 

:iagree:, something seems off.

 

And I also can't imagine this guy accepting a phone number from a girl. I know a lot of conservative young men, and someone with this faith background would not pursue a young woman who acted this way.

 

I've never heard of "missionary dating" before, but I would have to guess this is his ulterior motive.

[WagsWife]

I would be wondering why a youth pastor would want to date a someone that is not of like faith...especially since he is convicted to save intimacy for marriage. Everything else, I would not worry about.

[LostSurprise]

There isn't enough information for anyone to know anything about this guy. Its 2 dates! No one knows anyone after 2 dates.

 

 

I feel the over-analyzation has gotten to the level where its worrying to the OP and just plain mean to the man in question. Being religious, even choosing not to kiss, does not make someone gay, patriarchal, immature, lacking ambition, or a dating proselytizer. We may as well add that he might kick dogs and pinch babies because we dated someone who did once.

 

 

Just advise your daughter to be strong and be herself and take a step back. There will be plenty of time to do an intervention when you know more about him. Get to know him!

[momma2three]

There isn't enough information for anyone to know anything about this guy. Its 2 dates! No one knows anyone after 2 dates.

 

 

I feel the over-analyzation has gotten to the level where its worrying to the OP and just plain mean to the man in question. Being religious, even choosing not to kiss, does not make someone gay, patriarchal, immature, lacking ambition, or a dating proselytizer. We may as well add that he might kick dogs and pinch babies because we dated someone who did once.

 

 

Just advise your daughter to be strong and be herself and take a step back. There will be plenty of time to do an intervention when you know more about him. Get to know him!

 

I agree. Which is why him already talking about marriage is a red flag to me.

[kalanamak]

I have some questions for the op and for those that seem highly suspicious of the young man in question.

 

1. If he's sincere, what harm is being done?

 

 

None, but what it he isn't? (The question isn't if he is sincere, but sincere about what. If he's sincerely trying to get someone very young and innocent to take on his non-kissing as a "challenge" by being uber-upright and saying "all the right things", I wouldn't be surprised.) What if he's just a smooth operator.

 

I wasn't big for falling for smooth operators, but I've met more than one seduced, abandoned, preggers AND with an STD from a "really perfect" older guy. Not only were there many tears, often an abortion, but a lingering inability to trust ANY man. Three years down the line and I was still having meetings a couple of times a year with a crying young woman yearning for love but terrified. Granted, the "happily ever after" situations don't go to their doctor and break down. I know there is a selection bias, but it ain't like all older guys looking for a naive young woman are doing so out of honorable reasons.

 

Again, I don't think anyone is telling her to hose him .... just to be cautious. He was a total stranger very recently.

[Mandylubug]

I agree. Which is why him already talking about marriage is a red flag to me.

 

While I would say speaking of marriage could seem odd, it was one of the very first conversations I had with my now husband, at age 15!!!! I knew what I wanted in my future spouse. I knew my no compromise points. We spoke bluntly about topics that would be easily forgotten if we became physically attached. We talked the hard topics first thing. IF we had no disagreement in points of view, deal breaker issues, etc.. then I allowed myself to become more attached.

 

It is more of a courtship point of view. Dating for marriage, not dating for boredoms sake.

[vonfirmath]

I agree. Which is why him already talking about marriage is a red flag to me.

 

....Maybe. My husband and I were talking marriage that fast. AFTER we got out of the way that we were both Christians. Stuff had to be worked out, sure. But I knew after the first date & conversation after (that wasn't even supposed to be a date, just very casual friends going out to see a movie) that this was The Guy. That if everything worked out as I thought, we'd end up married.

 

--I never believed in love at first sight. Until it happened to me.

[WagsWife]

I agree. Which is why him already talking about marriage is a red flag to me.

 

Not really a huge flag to me. He is 29...maybe he is thinking it is time to settle down. Talking about what they are looking for in a future spouse will help to not waste time (for lack of a better expression.) It is better to know early if things would not work, than to drag out for months. My DH and I were pretty young (18/22 when we started dating, 20/24 when we married) and we started talking marriage pretty quick. We did not talk about "us" getting married, but how marriage looked to each of us.

[Catwoman]

While I would say speaking of marriage could seem odd, it was one of the very first conversations I had with my now husband, at age 15!!!! I knew what I wanted in my future spouse. I knew my no compromise points. We spoke bluntly about topics that would be easily forgotten if we became physically attached. We talked the hard topics first thing. IF we had no disagreement in points of view, deal breaker issues, etc.. then I allowed myself to become more attached.

 

It is more of a courtship point of view. Dating for marriage, not dating for boredoms sake.

 

When I was 15, it was all about which guy was better-looking. :D

[swellmomma]

As long as she has a clear head and knows where she stands in her own beliefs or openness to his than I would not worry about it. I mean really they have only had 2 dates, maybe not kissing or being intimate at this point can be viewed as a positive thing and wait to see where the chips fall. If the no kissing thing is new to him then it may not be set in stone long term. But for a second date where they are still getting to know each other than no kissing or other intimacy like that right now is a good thing imo.

 

As for long term thoughts baout her religion, his church etc. Yes it should be discussed, but if she is forthright with him and makes it clear where her beliefs are at this time, again I would let it play out. This is early dating not an engagement kwim.

[Perry]

If I were your dd, I would be really interested in what his political views were. I can live with an age difference, and I could deal with religious differences, but if someone had polar opposite political views than me things would come to a screeching halt.

[Rivka]

If he's sincerely trying to get someone very young and innocent to take on his non-kissing as a "challenge" by being uber-upright and saying "all the right things", I wouldn't be surprised.) What if he's just a smooth operator. [...]

 

Again, I don't think anyone is telling her to hose him .... just to be cautious. He was a total stranger very recently.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking!

 

When I was young I got close to a young man a few years older. I felt safe with him because he had religious scruples (in this case, Buddhist) against sex. Um. It turned out that when I was in a vulnerable situation his scruples turned out to not be that strong after all.

 

To me there's a mismatch between his presentation of his religious beliefs and what he is doing. If your beliefs about physical contact are so conservative, do you really go on solo dates with a young (very young) woman who picked you up at a restaurant, and who is not a practicing Christian? And push emotional intimacy very quickly? I don't think you do. That seems fishy to me.

[Perry]

Again, I don't think anyone is telling her to hose him

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry.

[SKL]

Hmm. I did that exact same thing on my second date. Told the guy I didn't believe in kissing because it was too intimate, and blamed it on religion. The truth was that I didn't want to kiss the guy. I didn't feel that attracted to him. It was the second date, after all. I was on the spot and could not think of a better way of slowing him down (without insulting him).

 

 

 

PS (totally irrelevant), my dad overheard my telling the guy this and informed me of same, decades later.:glare: Someday I too will laugh about it.:glare:

[Catwoman]

Again, I don't think anyone is telling her to hose him ....

 

Best. Typo. Ever. :lol::lol::lol:

 

(And if she wants to get hosed, she's going to have to find another guy. This fellow doesn't even kiss on dates... :tongue_smilie:)

[Renthead Mommy]

 

To me there's a mismatch between his presentation of his religious beliefs and what he is doing. If your beliefs about physical contact are so conservative, do you really go on solo dates with a young (very young) woman who picked you up at a restaurant, and who is not a practicing Christian? And push emotional intimacy very quickly? I don't think you do. That seems fishy to me.

 

So he's a children's pastor but is willing to go out with someone who isn't religious. Even though pastors are often viewed as a team.

 

He's so religious that he doesn't kiss, but he'll date someone NON religious, and a girl who gives him her phone number? He didn't even ask for it, she just gave it. Shouldn't that have been a red flag for HIM?

 

I don't know, between his age, the no kissing, overly religious thing, I'm seeing either gay and trying to fit into some straight christian box he believes he must live in and figures a younger, less esperienced woman would fall in line easier. Or else he's super controlling, sees her as a conquest that he can find, control, convert and all that.

 

I know we don't have near enough facts to say either way what his deal is, but based on the info given, that is where my brain is heading.

 

 

ETA Just we are clear, I see NOTHING wrong about a girl giving a guy her phone number first.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Renthead Mommy

[Catwoman]

He's so religious that he doesn't kiss, but he'll date someone NON religious, and a girl who gives him her phone number? He didn't even ask for it, she just gave it. Shouldn't that have been a red flag for HIM?

 

 

I had assumed that he'd asked her for her phone number, so she gave it to him, but now that you mention it, we really don't know for sure.

[Renthead Mommy]

I had assumed that he'd asked her for her phone number, so she gave it to him, but now that you mention it, we really don't know for sure.

 

The OP said "Her stepmom went gah-gah over him and kept hinting at my dd. DD gave her number to this guy. " To me that meant she gave it to him, he didn't ask. Plus the fact if you are working at a fancy restaurant you really shouldn't be hitting on the daughter of your customer.

 

At 29, and being a children's pastor, I would expect enough schooling/professionalism (both from theology schooling, training to work at the 'fancy restaurant') as well as common sense to know NOT to hit on while serving her. If he's so mature to have these great ideas about not kissing and know his religious self and what he wants from life, he comes across mature enough to know NOT do that at work.

 

Now if he was pulling beers at the local pub, sure, ask away. But that was not the impression I got from the fact that it was mother's day and a more expensive restaurant.

 

ETA Just so we are clear, I see NOTHING wrong with the OP or any girl giving a guy her phone number first, asked or not. It would seem odd, as in out of place to do it at an highend restaurant, but then so is bring your own soda with you. SO I think the daughter giving it is fine, I just think it should have been odd/red flag for the guy to accept and actually act on it based on the other information we've been given.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Renthead Mommy

[Night Elf]

Call me a bigot, but I'd wonder why a 29 year old was a waiter. I wouldn't cast him into the void, but it would make me look a little closer. His is a waiter putting himself through school, or is he a waiter to pick up chicks, or is he a waiter because he can't settle down.

 

He has a college degree in business, but doesn't like it. It was parent pushed. He is thinking about going back to school to be a counselor of some type. He works for both the church and the restaurant (only 2 days a week). He lives with a roommate so he is splitting bills with someone and not living on his own.

 

She and I are amazed at the 100 responses right now. We're slowly reading through them. :)

[kalanamak]

 

She and I are amazed at the 100 responses right now.

 

This is evidence, I think of how BADLY we, or those we know, have been burned.

[Catwoman]

This is evidence, I think of how BADLY we, or those we know, have been burned.

 

Not me. I'm just sticking around because I'm hoping to see a picture of the guy in a kilt. :tongue_smilie:

[Scarlett]

Not me. I'm just sticking around because I'm hoping to see a picture of the guy in a kilt. :tongue_smilie:

 

LOL

[Night Elf]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this.

 

OK, not really, but I've thought about it a little.

 

And the only way we can know for sure whether or not this guy is good enough for Beth's dd is this...

 

We need to see a picture of him in a kilt.

 

Well, if I don't like him and want to scare him off, I'll tell him about all you ladies and ask for a picture to put on the board! :tongue_smilie:

[Lab1]

I'm coming from a very religious background, but I'm only seeing a few things that concern me. After only a second date, I would have felt violated if a guy tried to kiss me! Kissing is intimate and I never kissed a guy unless we had been dating for several months. Really helped weed out the "frogs". I was very cautious after seeing my mother rush into two marriages. She was a romantic who got swept up in a new romance and had no true relationship with the men she married. It wasn't what I wanted and I figured that out by the time I was 12! Having only gone as far as kissing before marriage, I'll second the frustration, but conviction. You can tell if there is chemistry in a relationship before intimacy! Its too early for that though. Its only a second date!

 

My concern as a parent would be with my daughter. My oldest is nieve and I can see her following others into situations that could hurt her. She is only 10, so I can still mold friendships with good influences. This man is drawn to your dd for her strong family values. He wants to meet you, so have him over! I would be much more concerned if he was trying to break those bonds.

 

My other concern would be over religion. Is he a youth pastor "forever" or a temporary thing as he works out what he wants to do with his life? I would want to know exactly what he was thinking with her not being religious. It seems like he is being cautious and feeling out the situation before he gets attached as well. I'd be worried if they were getting heavily involved quickly and loosing themselves in the relationship. Friendship first is always best! The best relationships are built on friendship!

[FairyMom]

Call me a bigot, but I'd wonder why a 29 year old was a waiter. I wouldn't cast him into the void, but it would make me look a little closer. His is a waiter putting himself through school, or is he a waiter to pick up chicks, or is he a waiter because he can't settle down.

 

It would at least have to cross my mind.

 

To quote an old Spanish saying: watch a suitor like a hawk; watch a husband with half an eye.

 

I agree! Red flags. I would find out why he is still a waiter, other than, "I don't like me current degree." Is he actively doing something about it or just talking? I'd help your dd watch out for this.

 

From my experience {I went to a church as a teen that endorsed this idea}, Missionary dating is dating for the sole purpose of converting the person you are dating {and often their family too} to a particular church or branch of Christianity. Normally within a month or two of converting the person they were dating, the relationship would fizzle and the person doing the missionary dating would move on to a new prospective convert.

 

Disgusting... not surprising, though. We had a similar experience, but with "friends" moving on if you weren't converted to "their" faith within a certain time. Almost like notches on a belt. :ack2:

 

 

I would be more concerned about why he chose your daughter if you are sure your daughter does not share his faith and is not interested in doing so. Because something does seem off there.

 

:iagree: Excellent question!!

[deacongirl]

OK, I personally just cannot imagine my 20-yr. old self (or any of my friends) dating a 29 yr. old, or any 29 yr. olds I know dating a 20 yr. old. IMO there is too big of a gap in life experience at that point. I don't know any 29 yr olds who would be interested in dating a 20 yr. old except for one reason, which doesn't seem to apply here. (To me this wouldn't be as much of an issue in 5 yrs. or so) Anyway, in my experience and that of my friends and family it would be highly unusual.

[deacongirl]

I've known great couples with a large age gap. Age shouldn't be an issue, most of the time.

 

It's not so much his age, it's just that 20 is so young. If he were 38 and she 29, I'd not have the same feelings about it.

 

Exactly my thoughts.

[amy g.]

I thought I posted this, but now I can't find it, so forgive me if it is a double post.

 

When I was your daughter's age, I was very involved with my nondenominational church.

 

I met my dh who was raised Catholic, but no longer attended church. I saw in him something authentic that was missing in the very outwardly religious men that I had been dating.

 

Dh asked me to marry him before we ever went out. He swears it was love at first sight, and he has never wavered on that.

 

I said that if he wanted to marry me, surely he would want to be friends first, and he agreed. After 6 years of friendship, we got engaged, and were married a year later.

 

Our first kiss was at our wedding, yet next month, we celebrate 20 years of a very happy marriage.

 

Truly, picking to marry my husband was the smartest decision I've ever made.

 

I'm choosing to believe that this guy sees something real in your daughter that has nothing to do with religious practices, but with true character.

 

My advice to her is to go out with him, as a friend. Where is the harm in that? Maybe he is a dud, but if he turns out to be as wonderful of a friend as my Dh still is, then she might be on to something really good.

[Night Elf]

Well, well, well! She and I have sat here talking as we read through all the posts. You guys have raised questions we didn't even think about. We really appreciate the discussion. It's not something we could have done one-on-one because I only have my personal experiences coloring my thoughts and opinions.

 

I'm trying to think of some of the concerns that people are interested in hearing. He has worked part-time at the restaurant for 5 years and she thinks that it's really only supplementing his church work. It's something she will talk to him about more.

 

He was not homeschooled, but his family has always been religious. He went to church as a kid but he didn't really think about religion seriously until he was an adult, like early 20s.

 

He is totally cool with the fact that she just earned her high school diploma even though she just turned 20. He said that it was cool that she was homeschooled and was able to explore education in her own way. She will probably start at a junior college in the fall and he said he thought she should explore it because she wouldn't know until she tried. He also told her that he believed it was possible to do just about anything you want to do and that she should explore her interests. In other words, he hasn't come across as someone controlling. He thinks she just hasn't yet found her thing and that he's sure she will and for her to not fret about it.

 

He hasn't mentioned her visiting his church. They just talked about faith in general and that it is important to people. When she told him she was raised Catholic, he said that was cool. She doesn't yet sense anything from him about him trying to push his religion onto her. But she appreciates the responses and ideas of things to talk to him about.

 

She laughed out loud at the idea of posting a picture of him in a kilt. The funny thing is that dd14 said someone would mention a kilt before this thread was over when we saw there were so many responses to the thread. Do my kids know the Hive or what?? :lol:

 

Oh, ETA: she didn't just give him her number out of the blue. He gave her a card and a pen first. :)

Edited May 25, 2012 by Night Elf

[Pamela H in Texas]

My thoughts.... she is 20 years old so she is an adult. If she were dating someone with a criminal record or someone with a history that made you afraid for her in some way, I think it would be reasonable to interfere. In this case, I think all of this should be left to them. Sometimes you have to let them be adults and 20 is definitely an adult.

 

I agree. I do agree that it is odd that he isn't searching for someone of his own faith, especially as he seems more conservative otherwise. However, in the end, they are adults and I'd leave them alone to work it out. Of course, we like "dating" in the more close-knit versions such as bbqs and park trips and such. But even then, I'd want to be careful of not trying to control an adult child.

Edited May 25, 2012 by 2J5M9K

[beaners]

OK, I personally just cannot imagine my 20-yr. old self (or any of my friends) dating a 29 yr. old, or any 29 yr. olds I know dating a 20 yr. old. IMO there is too big of a gap in life experience at that point. I don't know any 29 yr olds who would be interested in dating a 20 yr. old except for one reason, which doesn't seem to apply here. (To me this wouldn't be as much of an issue in 5 yrs. or so) Anyway, in my experience and that of my friends and family it would be highly unusual.

 

:lol: I was 20 and my husband was 29 when we started dating. We were married soon after. I was supporting myself halfway across the country from my family, so our life stages weren't vastly different. He had no qualms about kissing, but our continuing marriage suggests he wasn't just looking for a quick fling with some young thing. ;)

[deacongirl]

So has she ever lived away from home? I just think the gap in experience is too big at this point--and honestly, when we were 20 my friends would have all thought that a 29 year old who was interested in dating one of us was creepy.

[deacongirl]

:lol: I was 20 and my husband was 29 when we started dating. We were married soon after. I was supporting myself halfway across the country from my family, so our life stages weren't vastly different. He had no qualms about kissing, but our continuing marriage suggests he wasn't just looking for a quick fling with some young thing. ;)

 

I think that is the significant difference here.